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taddy
Nov 5th 2007, 10:27 PM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy

AlainaJ
Nov 5th 2007, 10:53 PM
I've attended a church like that- and Idon't agree with it. However, the Pastor and church leadership have the right to make those kinds of decisions.

If the people involved object, perhaps a meeting with the pastor is in order?

It is a hard question, becuase just like a place of employment having a uniform or dress code, I beleive a church can too. As long as it doesn't cross over into legalism, like everyone has to dress the same way all of the time.

Alaina:)

RoadWarrior
Nov 5th 2007, 11:04 PM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy

I serve in a parachurch organization where the leaders are required to dress appropriately. Only recently was the ban on slacks lifted for women leaders, but we still have standards about what kind of pants are allowed. No jeans, for instance. I understand the necessity for the requirement, having been embarrassed by what I see some women wear in front of the congregation. I think it is much more respectful to dress according to what honors the Lord, not what you would wear to go out to play. People show more respect in clothing at weddings, why not at church.

But I'd be wondering and watching to see what other rules get laid down. If this is all coming from the pastor, he might be a bit too controlling.

flybaby
Nov 5th 2007, 11:05 PM
Our pastor asks that if you are going to be onstage (singing, playing the piano, etc) that you wear a dress or skirt (if you're a girl, of course). Also, if you are a sunday school teacher, you are to wear a dress or skirt. I don't mind this at all and it has been overlooked if someone has to play the piano at the last second and didn't know it. I try to wear a dress or skirt to church everytime, anyway, in case I have to play, but there have been occasions where I haven't.

For a while, our guy in charge of offering was asking that the men wear a button up shirt with a pocket if they were going to take up offering because he had these little badges that said "usher" to go in the pocket. I thought it was silly, but it didn't matter really.

I think it's the heart behind the rules that matter. I think that our Pastor has asked that of us so that no visitors that come to our church get offended as there are quite a few people stop in sometimes that believe that women should always be in a dress. Of course, we aren't always all in skirts or dresses, but those on stage are.

So I guess my answer is that it is okay for a pastor to ask that of his people.

tango
Nov 6th 2007, 12:10 AM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy

I would be very concerned if a pastor was dictating a dress code over and above a requirement to dress modestly. You don't want leaders hanging out of loose-fitting clothes leading their charges to distraction and temptation, but beyond that I say people should dress as they see fit.

There's also the issue of how welcoming the church is to a newcomer. The person seeking Christ won't necessarily turn up wearing neatly pressed clothes and is likely to feel completely out of place among people dressed in their finest clothes.

Christ himself associated with the lowest of the low - tax collectors and "sinners". When I read this:


Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I sometimes find myself wondering whether the insistence on an outer dress code is being more like the Pharisee than the publican.

HisBlood
Nov 6th 2007, 12:42 AM
I think this would stem more from old standing traditions than anything else. I go to Bob Jones University, where the girls are all expected to wear skirts and dresses and the boys are all expected to where buttoned-up shirts and ties every day of the week. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I do see why some people would see it as a gesture of modesty and respect towards God.

RoadWarrior
Nov 6th 2007, 01:13 AM
I think this would stem more from old standing traditions than anything else. I go to Bob Jones University, where the girls are all expected to wear skirts and dresses and the boys are all expected to where buttoned-up shirts and ties every day of the week. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I do see why some people would see it as a gesture of modesty and respect towards God.

Yes, I think this is true. Employers for example, want their employees to come to work looking a certain way, sending a message by their appearance that they are serious and professional in what they do. I have recently become aware (by virtue of having teenage grandchildren) that kids in school send messages to one another by the way they dress. A certain kind of shoe says, "I'm a skater!" (Skateboarder) Another style, all black, says, "I'm emo." Flat one-sided bangs goes along with that style.

So I think that what we wear, how we wear our hair, is sending signals. Do we look like the rest of the world, or does our appearance send a message that glorifies the Lord?

Traveling in a Mediterranean country a few years ago, my hubby and I realized that the street hucksters knew we were Americans before we ever opened our mouths. They could tell by our clothing, hair style, and the way we carried ourselves.

Being a Christian leader is about a lot more than how we dress, but how we dress sends the first message.

jeffreys
Nov 6th 2007, 01:24 AM
I guess we're pretty relaxed at the church I pastor.

This past Sunday I wore slacks, a dress shirt & sweater. That's as "dressed down" as I ever am. Normally I wear slacks, shirt & tie - and often wear a suit. I don't carp & holler about it, but that's just the standard I've decided to maintain.

On the other hand, a high school boy read our opening Scripture on Sunday. He was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. Though it would have been nice to see him wearing slacks, dress shirt and tie, I doubt he even owns those things. He's a "jock". Plus, I'd MUCH rather see him on the platform reading aloud from the Bible, than to not have him do this.

One of our elders - a youth leader - always wears shorts (though they're not just gym shorts). While I might like to see him a little more dressed up than that, he does a fantastic job with the kids - and that's what is important.

I guess what I'm saying is that what you look like is less important than why you're there, and what's in your heart. But I say that admitting that I'd rather see people dressed up a little more... ;)

RoadWarrior
Nov 6th 2007, 01:50 AM
I guess we're pretty relaxed at the church I pastor.

I guess what I'm saying is that what you look like is less important than why you're there, and what's in your heart. But I say that admitting that I'd rather see people dressed up a little more... ;)

I agree. When I'm just attending, I wear pants, it's more comfortable. If I'm teaching, I dress up a bit.

cross crusader
Nov 6th 2007, 03:49 AM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy

I really dont think it matters what a person wears while teaching or preaching,for the simple reason i have seen God do tremendous things no mattter what i am wearing, whether it be on the street,( in shorts, and a cut off tee) or behind the pulpit,( in a pair of slacks and a shirt.) although i agree nothing distracting should be worn in a service, for the simple fact of not causing someone to stumble. I mean the pharisees dressed up for church. I just cannot see the apostle Paul worrying about such matters. But if someones feels they need to dress up then that is fine with me. I just dont agree with people pushing their own opinions or "codes of conduct" on people with no biblical backing.

jeffreys
Nov 6th 2007, 05:02 AM
I really dont think it matters what a person wears while teaching or preaching,for the simple reason i have seen God do tremendous things no mattter what i am wearing, whether it be on the street,( in shorts, and a cut off tee) or behind the pulpit,( in a pair of slacks and a shirt.) although i agree nothing distracting should be worn in a service, for the simple fact of not causing someone to stumble. I mean the pharisees dressed up for church. I just cannot see the apostle Paul worrying about such matters. But if someones feels they need to dress up then that is fine with me. I just dont agree with people pushing their own opinions or "codes of conduct" on people with no biblical backing.

I think your point about "not distracting" is very good and valid.

It's one thing to have a beautiful woman standing up front reading Scripture. It's an entirely different thing if that same woman is wearing provocative or "too revealing" clothing.

DaniB
Nov 6th 2007, 10:05 AM
At my former church, I was on the worship team. We all wore the same outfit. The *church* paid for our outfits. We just gave out sizes and such. I think we only had one pant outfit, it was in a hideous burgundy color (ok the whole outfit was ugly lol). If the suits were always to the ground. I'm 5'3, and short people look awful in long skirts! I had all mine hemmed, so I didn't have to roll the waistband. I did just made them about 3" above the ankle. I had most of the suit tops tailored as well.

Did I mind it? nah. I didn't have to be concerned about what I was wearing every Sunday. I loved that part. All in all it wasn't bad. For Wednesday nite service, we could wear anything, but sweats or shorts.

All leadership always looked their best. They wore pantsuits, skirt suits or dresses. All the men wore suits, shirt and tie. Or at least a jacket and matching pants and a shirt underneath.

taddy
Nov 13th 2007, 10:32 PM
Thank you. For the record, I believe the pastor has the right to enforce a dress code for workers, as long as he/she does NOT enforce it people's private lives. It is legalism when AND ONLY WHEN you do it because you think it will save you. If you do it, knowing it has nothing to do with our salvation, it is not legalism.

TADDY

Loved
Nov 14th 2007, 12:53 AM
I would be very concerned if a pastor was dictating a dress code over and above a requirement to dress modestly. You don't want leaders hanging out of loose-fitting clothes leading their charges to distraction and temptation, but beyond that I say people should dress as they see fit.

There's also the issue of how welcoming the church is to a newcomer. The person seeking Christ won't necessarily turn up wearing neatly pressed clothes and is likely to feel completely out of place among people dressed in their finest clothes.

I totally agree. Requiring women working with the children at church to wear dresses or skirts IRKS me. If it was me leaving my child with a Sunday school teacher always wearing something that nice, all it would say to me is "this teacher is hands off and uptight." Not the way I would want my children to be taught about Christ, and I definitely wouldn't want any nursery workers wearing elegant clothes (I've certainly been thrown up on in the nursery before). Jeans allow me to be on the floor interacting with little ones, loving them and keeping them safe, and they allow me to get messy in Sunday school doing hands-on projects with kids that help them remember Bible stories better.

Clothing makes a first impression, sure, but which impression are we hoping newcomers will take home with them? I would hope an impression of eternal things (loving, warm, friendly, helpful, connected...) would be more important.

jeffreys
Nov 14th 2007, 02:39 PM
I totally agree. Requiring women working with the children at church to wear dresses or skirts IRKS me. If it was me leaving my child with a Sunday school teacher always wearing something that nice, all it would say to me is "this teacher is hands off and uptight." Not the way I would want my children to be taught about Christ, and I definitely wouldn't want any nursery workers wearing elegant clothes (I've certainly been thrown up on in the nursery before). Jeans allow me to be on the floor interacting with little ones, loving them and keeping them safe, and they allow me to get messy in Sunday school doing hands-on projects with kids that help them remember Bible stories better.

Clothing makes a first impression, sure, but which impression are we hoping newcomers will take home with them? I would hope an impression of eternal things (loving, warm, friendly, helpful, connected...) would be more important.

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute...

Would it be appropriate for a pastor - or director of children's ministries - to mandate that all nursery workers dress in a way that assures us there will be no front, or rear, cleavage popping out? And to keep in mind that you'll be bending over constantly...


It seems to me that people aren't necessarily on the same page, concerning what is and is not appropriate dress in every situation. In addition, some people may not even be aware of the fact that when they're sitting cross-legged on the floor, playing with a kid, that their entire butt-crack is showing. And the person who has to say something about it is always the bad guy.

always
Nov 14th 2007, 03:47 PM
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute...

Would it be appropriate for a pastor - or director of children's ministries - to mandate that all nursery workers dress in a way that assures us there will be no front, or rear, cleavage popping out? And to keep in mind that you'll be bending over constantly...


It seems to me that people aren't necessarily on the same page, concerning what is and is not appropriate dress in every situation. In addition, some people may not even be aware of the fact that when they're sitting cross-legged on the floor, playing with a kid, that their entire butt-crack is showing. And the person who has to say something about it is always the bad guy.


I have to agree with you! my husband's job just stricken the dress code, no flip flops, piercings or revealing clothes. Really! would that not have been obvious to begin with.

Loved
Nov 14th 2007, 07:06 PM
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute...

Would it be appropriate for a pastor - or director of children's ministries - to mandate that all nursery workers dress in a way that assures us there will be no front, or rear, cleavage popping out? And to keep in mind that you'll be bending over constantly...


It seems to me that people aren't necessarily on the same page, concerning what is and is not appropriate dress in every situation. In addition, some people may not even be aware of the fact that when they're sitting cross-legged on the floor, playing with a kid, that their entire butt-crack is showing. And the person who has to say something about it is always the bad guy.

I think if it was a perpetual problem then yes, set forth some guidelines ("Ladies, when choosing appropriate clothing to wear in the nursery, please be reminded of continued bending over and possibly sitting on the floor when interacting with the children"), NOT a "dress code" of what all must wear. In our nursery it is required that two workers be in there at all times (so if something happens one can go get a parent or whatever), so nursery workers should make an effort to hold each other accountable as well. I typically work in there with my sister, so we aren't afraid to say "hey, do you mind not flashing me?" :P I do agree with you that not everyone is on the same page and sometimes may need guidance, but to enforce a dress code for that is taking the cowardly way out. Granted, I can't see anyone in my small church reacting so badly to a clothing suggestion that I would be afraid to tell them if something was amiss. :)

jeffreys
Nov 14th 2007, 08:13 PM
I think if it was a perpetual problem then yes, set forth some guidelines ("Ladies, when choosing appropriate clothing to wear in the nursery, please be reminded of continued bending over and possibly sitting on the floor when interacting with the children"), NOT a "dress code" of what all must wear. In our nursery it is required that two workers be in there at all times (so if something happens one can go get a parent or whatever), so nursery workers should make an effort to hold each other accountable as well. I typically work in there with my sister, so we aren't afraid to say "hey, do you mind not flashing me?" :P I do agree with you that not everyone is on the same page and sometimes may need guidance, but to enforce a dress code for that is taking the cowardly way out. Granted, I can't see anyone in my small church reacting so badly to a clothing suggestion that I would be afraid to tell them if something was amiss. :)

Thank you! And that's my point.

I really don't care whether somebody (in the nursery, for instance) is wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt, or some uniform. But there really are some clothes that are totally inappropriate - and it sometimes seems that the people wearing them don't seem to notice.

jeffreys
Nov 14th 2007, 08:14 PM
I have to agree with you! my husband's job just stricken the dress code, no flip flops, piercings or revealing clothes. Really! would that not have been obvious to begin with.

No kidding! You're absolutely right in that it should be obvious to everybody. Unfortunately, it isn't always that way.

tango
Nov 14th 2007, 08:21 PM
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute...

Would it be appropriate for a pastor - or director of children's ministries - to mandate that all nursery workers dress in a way that assures us there will be no front, or rear, cleavage popping out? And to keep in mind that you'll be bending over constantly...


It seems to me that people aren't necessarily on the same page, concerning what is and is not appropriate dress in every situation. In addition, some people may not even be aware of the fact that when they're sitting cross-legged on the floor, playing with a kid, that their entire butt-crack is showing. And the person who has to say something about it is always the bad guy.

Good points, although sometimes a more "conservative" dress code also causes problems. I remember a girl I knew some years back who wore the most beautiful full-length dresses. Trouble was she couldn't get up from the ground without flashing a lot more leg (and I mean a LOT more) than one might expect from her outfit.

So to expect someone to use their common sense is open to varying interpretations of "common sense", but to require a specific dress code doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Loved
Nov 14th 2007, 11:13 PM
So to expect someone to use their common sense is open to varying interpretations of "common sense", but to require a specific dress code doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Which is why I think guidance and accountability would be more appropriate than a flat-out dress code. :) God created everyone with different body types too, so what's modest on some just doesn't work on others!

jeffreys
Nov 14th 2007, 11:13 PM
Good points, although sometimes a more "conservative" dress code also causes problems. I remember a girl I knew some years back who wore the most beautiful full-length dresses. Trouble was she couldn't get up from the ground without flashing a lot more leg (and I mean a LOT more) than one might expect from her outfit.

So to expect someone to use their common sense is open to varying interpretations of "common sense", but to require a specific dress code doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

You're absolutely right.

Personally, I think a full-length dress would be a ridiculous thing to wear in the church nursery. But it'd also be ridiculous to wear a low-cut, crop-top blouse and those ultra low-rise pants so many of the girls wear now.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that although I don't think there needs to be a dress code in any church, there really does need to be an expectation of appropriate attire. I guess the "how" of how we go about doing that is up for grabs.

tango
Nov 14th 2007, 11:21 PM
Which is why I think guidance and accountability would be more appropriate than a flat-out dress code. :) God created everyone with different body types too, so what's modest on some just doesn't work on others!



I guess what I'm really trying to say is that although I don't think there needs to be a dress code in any church, there really does need to be an expectation of appropriate attire. I guess the "how" of how we go about doing that is up for grabs.

Yup, I reckon we're agreed on that. So the informal 11th commandment could be "thou shalt not fall out of thy clothes when teaching in church" :)

cheech
Nov 15th 2007, 12:54 AM
I believe a Pastor should request those who serve the church to first dress modestly then place the normal requirements...nothing wrong with casual dressing...nice pair of jeans and a nice shirt or sweater. Of course when there is a special occasion, I don't see a big deal with asking those who are serving on the altar to dress up a bit (women with slacks are just fine).

The reason I say modesty first was because when my daughter was in around 8th or 9th grade, she was going to Sunday school classes and the teacher was 18 and her helper was 17. The teacher was a beautiful girl but she wore some low cut shirts and low rise pants (although they were nice clothing and she looked lovely in them). I'm sure she did a great job and my daughter seemed to like her but when you're dealing with young teen boys, minds can wander :lol:. So I think dressing modestly should be in the rules and if you are going to have teenage teachers...it must be stressed.

Am I getting old? :hmm:

taddy
Nov 15th 2007, 09:48 PM
Thank you again. I appreciate your responses to my question. I have been helpped. TAD

laratreun
Jan 19th 2008, 04:23 PM
Hmm, strangely enough, this very issue has just reared it's head at my boyfriend's current church. He, however, is not employed by the church - he merely volunteers as a guitarist for the worship band.

Now the pastor has asked them to wear long pants and to sit in front after they have finished playing (another issue altogether - I'll stick to the dress issue). In my mind, and in many other people's minds who are involved in this, this is a hypocritical approach. God doesn't care how those who praise him are dressed!

Now I understand that there is a call for neatness onstage, as do all involved, but when the weather is decidedly hot and the team has to be up on stage playing guitar (which does get one more warm;)), long pants tend to make one extremely uncomfortable. Why is it unacceptable for the team to wear neat shorts. And by shorts I mean knee-length at least. It still looks neat and presentable.

Why should the volunteers have to change the way they look or dress just so they can help out the church. In my opinion, it sends out a bad message to people - especially those who know those volunteers outside of the church. I know from years of working with teenagers that sometimes thoughts set in like "Well, they had to change to be in the church. They had to become better, so what chance is there for ME to fit into this church? I'm not neat or presentable. I'm a mess. And if that guy, who is alreadty so much better than me outside of church, has to neaten up to come into the church, then there is no hope for me." or "If I give myself over to these people or this church, they will change everything about me, right down to how I look." And THAT can send teenagers running faster than a buck from a lion.

I really and truely believe that leaders should be able to come to church in whatever they feel right. In fact, I know some worship leaders who go to church with dreadlocks and a slightly ripped shirt (from a skating accident soon before) and the congregation doesn't have a second glance at his appearance. I know a pastor, who changes his hair drastically every few months (dyes, cornrows, dreadlocks, shaves patterns into it) and will go onstage in boardshorts, a t-shirt and barefoot. And his congregation does not care. God does not care how you look. He will lay it on your heart if what you're wearing is inappropriate. Otherwise He really doesn't care. I mean, look at David. He ran around naked praising God!

jiggyfly
Jan 26th 2008, 05:25 PM
I personally think you should dress appropriately at all times but do not think that this means you dress one way in "church" and another at the grocery store. I agree with laratreun on the fact that Father could really give a flip about whether someone wear shorts and flipflops or a suit and tie to a religious ceremony.

stillforgiven
Jan 26th 2008, 05:36 PM
At this point, our only "dress code" is no shorts when on the platform, and that's only shorts above the knee for men and women. (I personally never wear shorts, because it's always cold, but only for that reason.) I go to a small rural church, and we have working men in their overalls sometimes sitting next to a lady with her Sunday finest. As far as I know, there's never been an issue.

When it does happen that we have unsaved or new Christians come in, usually ladies, who are dressing less than modest, we start with loving her. She usually figures it out on her own. Every now and then an elder must give some quiet words of guidance, but it's always done in love, and it's only when modesty is the issue.

Brother Mark
Jan 26th 2008, 05:53 PM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy

Not for me... but hey, if it works for you guys...

IPet2_9
Jan 28th 2008, 05:18 PM
What I have always done is, I make sure I always dress up just a little bit nicer for church than I do for work. So if I'm doing construction work, just a button-up shirt, jeans, and tennis shoes would be fine. If I'm company Vice President, I should wear my best suit to church. It's just a little statement I make as to what I esteem more.

Haggai 1:4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses, while [My] house remains a ruin?" (you can read the whole Haggai 1 chapter, in context)

Your teachers are teaching through their actions, not just their Sunday School lessons. Haggai scolded the Israelites for almost the same thing: spending all their time prettying up their houses, while God's house remains in shambles. Teach your congregation that God's house deserves to be at least as pretty, or prettier, than their own houses. It's not very pretty if people are wearing their grunge clothes to church and their coat-and-ties to work.

sunney4
Jan 28th 2008, 06:55 PM
we dont' have a dress code, its just general modesty. the pastor generally wears jeans and sometimes his flipflops. any more dresseed up than that you may feel a bit out of place. but we keep it cold enough that people have to put on some clothes in order to stay warm...

taddy
Jan 28th 2008, 10:18 PM
Thanks for your input.

TAD

jangar
Jan 28th 2008, 10:39 PM
I don't want to sound rude Taddy, but this needs to be said.

God gave His best for us. He gave us His Son Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus not only died for our sins, but He died to provide everything we need for our whole life as Christians. Likewise we should do our best for Him. Shorts in church is certainly not our best. A pastor preaching in flip flops (in my opinion) takes away much deserved dignity from the Word of God that he/she is supposedly preaching. This goes for teachers and ushers too. The "JESUS WORE SANDALS" argument holds no water with me. Sandals were ALL they had back then. Today, we have lots of shoes to choose from.

Yes Taddy, your pastor is 100% correct. The pulpit deserves the highest dignity. People who occupy the pulpit and dress anyway that they wish too, steal the dignity away from the pulpit.

Jangar

taddy
Jan 28th 2008, 10:57 PM
You are not rude. You are correct. I agree with you. I was just wondering how far from the old paths that the modermn SO CALLED church has gone. I certainly found out. UNFORTUNATELY, too may churches today claim that "...We are not your grandma's church", or "That God is doing something new". God is not doing anything new. He is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER. He has not changed and neither has HIS methods.

It breaks my heart that people today have absolutely no regard for the church or the pulpit today.

Thanks again Jangar.

Taddy

IPet2_9
Jan 29th 2008, 06:13 AM
People who occupy the pulpit and dress anyway that they wish too, steal the dignity away from the pulpit.

One would like to think people would WANT to dress reasonably well for the pulpit. I would. But even if I didn't, the leadership role I accepted means I do things I don't want sometimes...okay, most of the time.

Ayala
Jan 29th 2008, 07:34 AM
I don't want to sound rude Taddy, but this needs to be said.

God gave His best for us. He gave us His Son Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus not only died for our sins, but He died to provide everything we need for our whole life as Christians. Likewise we should do our best for Him. Shorts in church is certainly not our best. A pastor preaching in flip flops (in my opinion) takes away much deserved dignity from the Word of God that he/she is supposedly preaching. This goes for teachers and ushers too. The "JESUS WORE SANDALS" argument holds no water with me. Sandals were ALL they had back then. Today, we have lots of shoes to choose from.

Yes Taddy, your pastor is 100% correct. The pulpit deserves the highest dignity. People who occupy the pulpit and dress anyway that they wish too, steal the dignity away from the pulpit.

Jangar

And what of a pastor, who lives poor and meager? Does he receive the same scrutiny? Will the Lord look down at him with disatisfaction because of his "less-than-dignifying" attire? Somethin tells me that the Lord is a little more concerned with his servant, teaching and spreading the gospel with love and earnesty...than with how well he's dressed. If a missionary is teaching at a poor church in Tanzania or Kenya, are silky clothes important there as well? I definitely think it's nice to dress well...but I severely doubt that the Lord is gazing at how outwardly nice we look, while in fellowship with Him...the true concern is a little more inward. Dress to keep minds off you and on the Lord...that's MHO.

If that came off a little edgy, my apologies. :D

militarywife
Jan 29th 2008, 09:20 AM
I dont think a dress code should be mandated. I think common sense dressing is a great idea. But lets face it...God will use a person wearing a potato sack to get HIS word out there.
Is He wonderful?:)

IPet2_9
Jan 29th 2008, 07:52 PM
The point is just to give God our best. Not to dress our best when we can, because we are worshipping "inwardly" -- that kind of fits in the same category as faith-without-works, in my book.

I tend to lean toward a dress code for the pulpit, just because it is a leadership position. For the congregation I wouldn't do a dress code--just encourage them to give God their best--in large part because the church has visitors. Giving God your best is something between you and God. But in a leadership position, it's NOT just between you and God.

jiggyfly
Jan 30th 2008, 12:14 AM
I don't see why all the fuss over the pulpit and what one wears when standing behind it. Is it supposed to be sacred and holy?
Matthew 23:1-12
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures. 3 So practice and obey whatever they say to you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden.
5 “Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside,* and they wear extra long tassels on their robes. 6 And how they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the most prominent seats in the synagogue! 7 They enjoy the attention they get on the streets, and they enjoy being called ‘Rabbi.’* 8 Don’t ever let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters.* 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Master,’ for there is only one master, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

IPet2_9
Jan 30th 2008, 05:19 AM
Those same Pharisees also prominently dropped their gold and silver in the coffer box when it came time for the offering. We all know the widow gave more than they did. But does that mean we should all drop a mite in the offering plate when we have the gold and silver?

jiggyfly
Jan 30th 2008, 12:27 PM
Those same Pharisees also prominently dropped their gold and silver in the coffer box when it came time for the offering. We all know the widow gave more than they did. But does that mean we should all drop a mite in the offering plate when we have the gold and silver?

So do you believe the pulpit is sacred and holy? Do you believe it pleases Father when we "dress up" or that He is impressed with our best?

IPet2_9
Jan 31st 2008, 04:54 PM
So do you believe the pulpit is sacred and holy? Do you believe it pleases Father when we "dress up" or that He is impressed with our best?

Yes to all. Although I'm not too crazy about the use of the word "impressed". Obviously we are to give God our first fruits. We are to esteem the church in our thoughts and deeds.

jiggyfly
Jan 31st 2008, 09:19 PM
Yes to all. Although I'm not too crazy about the use of the word "impressed". Obviously we are to give God our first fruits. We are to esteem the church in our thoughts and deeds.

Acts 7:48&49
48 However, the Most High doesn’t live in temples made by human hands. As the prophet says,
49 ‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Could you ever build me a temple as good as that?’
asks the Lord.
‘Could you build a dwelling place for me?

Acts17:24&25
24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need there is.

1Peter 2:4&5
4 Come to Christ, who is the living cornerstone of God’s temple. He was rejected by the people, but he is precious to God who chose him.
5 And now God is building you, as living stones, into his spiritual temple. What’s more, you are God’s holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ.

Athanasius
Jan 31st 2008, 09:50 PM
As far as I'm aware, the 'dress code' for us is. . . 'Dress decent'.
I don't see any reason to mandate otherwise. . .

IPet2_9
Jan 31st 2008, 11:09 PM
25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs.

Then why tithe?

jiggyfly
Feb 1st 2008, 02:05 AM
Then why tithe?

Exactly, tithing is not a new covenant practice or requirement.

Faithwalker
Feb 1st 2008, 01:10 PM
Teach your congregation that God's house deserves to be at least as pretty, or prettier, than their own houses. It's not very pretty if people are wearing their grunge clothes to church and their coat-and-ties to work.

Nay. Teach your congregation to put on Christ, for without Him, your classy suits and pretty dresses are grunge too.

We are the church.

servantsheart
Feb 3rd 2008, 01:28 PM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

Taddy
Actually I have never attended a church that had a dress code. BUT I am at the point of thinking that if a suggestion to wear clothes that will not attract attention from the opposite sex is seen as a need, then the pastor should be the one to bring it up. Many do not care how they dress to come into a house where we are to meet our heavenly Father.
In Jesus' time everyone 'dressed' to go see the king. When did it become OK to dress however you want to dress to attend church? Are we not meeting our KING and LORD.
I am talking about dressing to be modestly dressed and in accordance to your postion (if you are to be in front of the rest of the church), not wearing shorts (!), low cut tops, etc. You don't have to have fur and diamonds! But clean and neat clothing is not too much to ask or expect.
It shows respect to God and His house of worship to dress up a little. Who cares if you have to dress all week for work..is it not more important to look like you care about your appearance on Sunday as well. You have the rest of the day to rest in comfortable clothing.
And what is it teaching our children and youth to let them think it is ok to dress any way they choose before entering the house of the Lord?
Visitors can be made to feel comfortable and accepted in so many other ways then by seeing people of God not dressed to show respect for being in the Lord's house.
Just my opinion on this...I am 61 and have seen a lot in church's with the way people want to dress on a Sunday church going morning. Let's make Sunday MORE important then the other days of the week.

Diggindeeper
Feb 4th 2008, 03:40 AM
As far as I'm aware, the 'dress code' for us is. . . 'Dress decent'.
I don't see any reason to mandate otherwise. . .

I really, REALLY like the quote above! At one church where we attended for about 3 or 4 years, we saw the "death" of the choir, and the "birth" of the Praise Team. Well, most did like the...uh...performance (?) of the Praise Team better than the choir.

But after the Praise Team was born, things changed. We noticed one Sunday morning that bar stools were added to the stage. And the Praise Team members (4 to 6 people) sat on the bar stools till time to get up and lead the singing.

Then, it got so a couple of soloists would sit on the bar stools, holding the microphone while singing. Now, I can't say if it was the influence of the bar stools or the microphone held in front of the mouth while singing or exactly what happened to cause the young women to begin to dress differently, but their clothing style changed. It really did!

When the choir was on stage, they never wore choir robes, just normal, Sunday-church-going-attire. But after the bar stools arrived on that stage, and honest--this is the truth--a couple of the ladies started wearing too-low-cut-form-fitting tops, and either far-too-short-for bar-stool skirts, or down-to-the-ankle-skirts--with a split that went from the hem to mid hip! They would sit on the bar stool, microphone in hand, legs crossed, singing their heart out... and the "split" all the way up one side, exposing almost the whole leg!

I'm telling the truth when I say I felt like I was a patron in a bar room with karoke! I finally talked to the Pastor's wife about this, and she said, "Yes, I've noticed that, too. But I was just praying they'd stop dressing like that, so I wouldn't have to go and talk to them." She assurred me she WOULD take care of it in a week or so.

But nothing changed. Lots of people were noticing. It was not only me that took notice of the lewdness. There was talk and whispers all over the place. I was really praying about this and others told me they had talked to the Pastor or his wife, and were praying also. It was really bothering us to see men all over...well, how shall I say this? Men who were all goggly-eyed, as they clapped and watched the performance!

One Sunday morning, I was praying during the song service, and the Lord spoke to me. Not in an audible voice, (this is hard to describe) but clearly I heard, "LET THE OLDER WOMEN TEACH THE YOUNGER."

Well, there I was, praying, Oh Lord, surely you don't mean that I should say something! Its not MY place, Lord. Why don't you just ask the Pastor's wife to do that."

Again, for the second time, I heard, "LET THE OLDER WOMEN TEACH THE YOUNGER." There was no denying the voice WAS speaking to ME! :cry: My protesting in my heart was not even being considered. I KNEW it wasn't!
And I believe, had I not obeyed that voice, I would have shortened my life!

Anyway, with fear and trembling, after the service, I approached the one young woman who was there that day. (The mini-skirt, too-low-cut top one was not there.)

But I walked up to the one with the split all the way up her leg, and put my arm around her shoulder, and I said, "Darlin', you are such a pretty young lady." (She thanked me. And I continued...) "But that big split all the way to your undies just shows too much up there on that bar stool." She looked me square in the eyes, and I saw tears welling up in her eyes. Oh my. I was praying Oh Lord, help me as I continued.

I told her, "But Sweetie, I was Alteration Lady for a local dry cleaners. And if you will bring me that skirt tonight, I will sew that split for you, and I promise not a stitch will show! And then, you will look so much prettier up on that stage!"

My heart was beating out of my chest, from the fear and trembling inside me. But I knew I had heard clearly, "LET THE OLDER WOMEN TEACH THE YOUNGER." Then and there, that young woman grabbed me...and she hugged me real tight! And she said softly, almost in a whisper. "Thank you for telling me this. Thank you."

And, she STOPPED wearing the split skirts! Strangely, the other young woman also started wearing more modest clothing, too! Longer skirts, and decent tops. I think the two of them must have talked to each other. But I never told one person at that church--except my husband--that I had told her that. (He got tickled at me!) I did thank God, though, that I never had to have that little talk the second time, with the other little woman!

That was so, SO hard for me to do! I felt good because I'd obeyed that "voice", but man...at the same time, I felt like the Meanie of the congregation!~ Hope I NEVER have to do that again!

jiggyfly
Feb 4th 2008, 12:16 PM
Actually I have never attended a church that had a dress code. BUT I am at the point of thinking that if a suggestion to wear clothes that will not attract attention from the opposite sex is seen as a need, then the pastor should be the one to bring it up. Many do not care how they dress to come into a house where we are to meet our heavenly Father.
In Jesus' time everyone 'dressed' to go see the king. When did it become OK to dress however you want to dress to attend church? Are we not meeting our KING and LORD.
I am talking about dressing to be modestly dressed and in accordance to your postion (if you are to be in front of the rest of the church), not wearing shorts (!), low cut tops, etc. You don't have to have fur and diamonds! But clean and neat clothing is not too much to ask or expect.
It shows respect to God and His house of worship to dress up a little. Who cares if you have to dress all week for work..is it not more important to look like you care about your appearance on Sunday as well. You have the rest of the day to rest in comfortable clothing.
And what is it teaching our children and youth to let them think it is ok to dress any way they choose before entering the house of the Lord?
Visitors can be made to feel comfortable and accepted in so many other ways then by seeing people of God not dressed to show respect for being in the Lord's house.
Just my opinion on this...I am 61 and have seen a lot in church's with the way people want to dress on a Sunday church going morning. Let's make Sunday MORE important then the other days of the week.
It seems that you model your life more after the old covenant style of worship.

jiggyfly
Feb 4th 2008, 12:30 PM
Nay. Teach your congregation to put on Christ, for without Him, your classy suits and pretty dresses are grunge too.

We are the church.

Halelujah!! The flesh stinks and is ugly no matter how you try to slick it up or cover it up. Why all this focus on clothing the flesh? Hey, here's an idea how about crucify the flesh and make Father happy.

servantsheart
Feb 4th 2008, 11:43 PM
It seems that you model your life more after the old covenant style of worship.
I don't believe so. I am very much into the chrismatic form of raising my hands during praise and worship and letting the spirit move inside of my heart. I believe in layin on of hands for healing and having a prayer language with my Holy Father.
Today's attitude of 'anything flies' is a sad state of being. Scripture tells women to dress modestly and wouldn't you think that includes (even more so) coming to church dressed so as not to catch the eye of every man...men who have wives and are trying hard to live a good and godly Christian way of life. I wouldn't have wanted to be the one to temp a man in church in this way in my day....and have to answer to God for doing so.
We are to help keep each other uplifted and not cause your brother or sister to stumble.
Teenage girls dress the way their mothers allow them to dress or the way they see their mother's dressing. Some clothing is just not acceptable for church. And it is up to mother's and even the pastor or his wife to suggest a more acceptable way. It is sad it has to come down to this but someone needs to point this out if a church if filled with many who do not realize what modesty means these days.
I just believe with my whole heart that you must prepare yourself spiriturally for coming to church...I listen to my Christian CD's and even pray in the spirit. And along with that is the "weird" concept of putting on nice clothes to meet my KING. I work all week and dress up all week. So yes, I would like to wear jeans all day. But I have only worn (clean and pressed jeans) to church when the weather has been horrible with snow and ice. But then I wear a nice sweater or blazer jacket with them...not a sweatshirt.
I know my son and daughter (both are grown) always dress in nice clothes...if they wear jeans they are not the ones torn from one side of your back end to the other! And no low cut tops hanging off my daughters shoulder either. .. believe me she can catch a man's eye even in a sweatshirt! But she does not try. She knows that would be sinful and causing someone to fall out of grace.
Maybe it is just something I personally feel I need to do to present myself to God in His house of worship. To let Him know I care enough about my appearance to come dressed nice enough not to look like I just rolled out of bed.:blush:

servantsheart
Feb 4th 2008, 11:56 PM
Dear diggindeeper, Praise you and PRIASE the Holy Spirit for telling you what to do and you listened!! I am so proud of you for following the prompting of the Holy Spirit. You did it with such Grace! And Love!
We need more ladies who will take responsibility for how they dress themselves for attending church and church related functions.
You are a precious gift. Thank you for being who you are in Christ Jesus.

taddy
Feb 5th 2008, 12:09 AM
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate all the input.

Taddy

Faithwalker
Feb 5th 2008, 11:22 AM
Halelujah!! The flesh stinks and is ugly no matter how you try to slick it up or cover it up. Why all this focus on clothing the flesh? Hey, here's an idea how about crucify the flesh and make Father happy.

Now there`s a novel idea...:hmm:

I see Jesus, shedding his 'finery' (which was`nt so fine at all I suspect), and at 'church' (gasp) nonetheless...and there He gets on his knees with a towel wrapped around his waist...getting the mud from every dirty, stinkin foot in the room on his hands...



Joh 13:4 So during the meal Jesus got up, removed his outer garment, and wrapped a towel around his waist. He put some water into a large bowl. Then he began washing his disciples' feet and drying them with the towel he was wearing.

Note what Jesus said to Peter...

Joh 13:8 "You will never wash my feet!" Peter replied.
"If I don't wash you," Jesus told him, "you don't really belong to me." Peter said, "Lord, don't wash just my feet. Wash my hands and my head."

Lord wash our feet and hands too, but mostly our heads...inside and out!


So we all want to be 'Christ-ian' huh...

Well the Christ of Christianity would tell most of this generation to GET REAL about what He is REALLY about...and if you think its about clothes, you aint been stripped and washed yet by Him.

Joh 13:13 You call me your teacher and Lord, and you should, because that is who I am. And if your Lord and teacher has washed your feet, you should do the same for each other. I have set the example, and you should do for each other exactly what I have done for you. I tell you for certain that servants are not greater than their master, and messengers are not greater than the one who sent them. You know these things, and God will bless you, if you do them. I am not talking about all of you. I know the ones I have chosen. But what the Scriptures say must come true. And they say, "The man who ate with me has turned against me!"

jiggyfly
Feb 5th 2008, 12:43 PM
I don't believe so. I am very much into the chrismatic form of raising my hands during praise and worship and letting the spirit move inside of my heart. I believe in layin on of hands for healing and having a prayer language with my Holy Father.
Today's attitude of 'anything flies' is a sad state of being. Scripture tells women to dress modestly and wouldn't you think that includes (even more so) coming to church dressed so as not to catch the eye of every man...men who have wives and are trying hard to live a good and godly Christian way of life. I wouldn't have wanted to be the one to temp a man in church in this way in my day....and have to answer to God for doing so.
We are to help keep each other uplifted and not cause your brother or sister to stumble.
Teenage girls dress the way their mothers allow them to dress or the way they see their mother's dressing. Some clothing is just not acceptable for church. And it is up to mother's and even the pastor or his wife to suggest a more acceptable way. It is sad it has to come down to this but someone needs to point this out if a church if filled with many who do not realize what modesty means these days.
I just believe with my whole heart that you must prepare yourself spiriturally for coming to church...I listen to my Christian CD's and even pray in the spirit. And along with that is the "weird" concept of putting on nice clothes to meet my KING. I work all week and dress up all week. So yes, I would like to wear jeans all day. But I have only worn (clean and pressed jeans) to church when the weather has been horrible with snow and ice. But then I wear a nice sweater or blazer jacket with them...not a sweatshirt.
I know my son and daughter (both are grown) always dress in nice clothes...if they wear jeans they are not the ones torn from one side of your back end to the other! And no low cut tops hanging off my daughters shoulder either. .. believe me she can catch a man's eye even in a sweatshirt! But she does not try. She knows that would be sinful and causing someone to fall out of grace.
Maybe it is just something I personally feel I need to do to present myself to God in His house of worship. To let Him know I care enough about my appearance to come dressed nice enough not to look like I just rolled out of bed.:blush:
It kinda sounds like you believe that one needs to go to a church building in order to meet God and that God is influenced with your apparel. His house of worship is not a building.

One a second note, teach people the need to deny self and crucify the flesh and everything else falls in place. A man who has crucified his carnal desires won't be tempted by some girl wearing a low top or short skirt, a girl who has crucified her carnal desires won't dress or act provocatively. To teach dress codes and such rather than denying self is still a carnal thing and has no spiritual significance it is just learned behavior.

Faithwalker
Feb 5th 2008, 01:10 PM
One a second note, teach people the need to deny self and crucify the flesh and everything else falls in place. A man who has crucified his carnal desires won't be tempted by some girl wearing a low top or short skirt, a girl who has crucified her carnal desires won't dress or act provocatively. To teach dress codes and such rather than denying self is still a carnal thing and has no spiritual significance it is just learned behavior.

:amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen::amen:


Sorry...got carried away by the Spirit of the post...:pp

Faithwalker
Feb 5th 2008, 02:43 PM
On second thought...I prolly should correct myself...

I am NOT sorry...

Rather ~ Oh say but i`m glad! :pp

Because I`m too poor to own any self righteousness...that includes the clothes in my closet...all you`ll find there are tattered blue jeans and second hand scrubs...

BUT, thankfully God says to be rich in giving, not rich in get-ups...:pp

1Ti 6:17 Give orders to those who have money and goods in this life, not to be lifted up in their minds, or to put their hope in the uncertain chances of wealth, but in God who gives us in full measure all things for our use; And to do good, having wealth in good works, being quick to give, taking part with one another;

You want to be part with me, you are going to have to not mind walking down the street with a bum :lol:

There goes the neighborhood...! :eek:

Brother Mark
Feb 5th 2008, 03:23 PM
One a second note, teach people the need to deny self and crucify the flesh and everything else falls in place.

AMEN!


A man who has crucified his carnal desires won't be tempted by some girl wearing a low top or short skirt, a girl who has crucified her carnal desires won't dress or act provocatively.

Well the temptation is there even to a man who has the cross in him. But certainly he will know how to properly respond and will look away. And a man who has overcome his lust is surely not tempted to the same degree by a low top or short skirt. He can see the girl instead of only her flesh.

servantsheart
Feb 8th 2008, 03:17 AM
It kinda sounds like you believe that one needs to go to a church building in order to meet God and that God is influenced with your apparel. His house of worship is not a building.

One a second note, teach people the need to deny self and crucify the flesh and everything else falls in place. A man who has crucified his carnal desires won't be tempted by some girl wearing a low top or short skirt, a girl who has crucified her carnal desires won't dress or act provocatively. To teach dress codes and such rather than denying self is still a carnal thing and has no spiritual significance it is just learned behavior.

Yes I believe everyone needs to go to church. God's word tells us to get connected with like minded believers and to serve in some form within the church setting. But I can also see God in His creations around us...just like in the setting sun (colors) He so graciously gave to me one night last week. But saying you don't have to attend a church of your choice and be apart of it is not what God tells us to do.
And I agree that it is best if people have crucified self and the carnal and would behave accordingly after wards. But not everyone who attends a church has reached this point in their lives. Therefore they need to be taught and lead in the right direction on modesty (especially in church).
And true if every man were crucified in the flesh they would not be of subjection to an indecently dressed woman or girl. BUT since each one is not living in this form of crucified flesh, they need for the women and girls around them not to cause him to fall and especially within a church setting.
Each believer is the church. I know that. But tell me what do YOU call a church building? Since you thaught I missed named it. I called it a place to worship or maybe "His" in meaning everything belongs to Him and we go to a place to worship and pray to Him and for Jesus and the Holy Spirit to join us there. It is a place to ask God to join us as a community of worshipers.

Diggindeeper
Feb 8th 2008, 04:30 AM
Bottom line to me is this--

Yes, we are the church!
The church should not look like the world. People on a Praise Team
should not look or act like floozies in a bar room setting.

The CHURCH is the CHOSEN holy, pure and righteous, bride of Christ!
May the church look like he wants his bride to look.

Its a fact, we are also the ONLY Bible some people will ever read!
How are they reading us??

JesusPhreak27
Feb 8th 2008, 04:37 AM
You are not rude. You are correct. I agree with you. I was just wondering how far from the old paths that the modermn SO CALLED church has gone. I certainly found out. UNFORTUNATELY, too may churches today claim that "...We are not your grandma's church", or "That God is doing something new". God is not doing anything new. He is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER. He has not changed and neither has HIS methods.

It breaks my heart that people today have absolutely no regard for the church or the pulpit today.

Thanks again Jangar.

Taddy

So in your mind God is more worried about the clothing that we wear on the outside of our body as opposed to what our heart (inside our body) feels?

God is more concerned about the message that the Pastor is giving then the clothing that he is wearing......

jiggyfly
Feb 8th 2008, 10:10 AM
Yes I believe everyone needs to go to church. God's word tells us to get connected with like minded believers and to serve in some form within the church setting. But I can also see God in His creations around us...just like in the setting sun (colors) He so graciously gave to me one night last week. But saying you don't have to attend a church of your choice and be apart of it is not what God tells us to do.
And I agree that it is best if people have crucified self and the carnal and would behave accordingly after wards. But not everyone who attends a church has reached this point in their lives. Therefore they need to be taught and lead in the right direction on modesty (especially in church).
And true if every man were crucified in the flesh they would not be of subjection to an indecently dressed woman or girl. BUT since each one is not living in this form of crucified flesh, they need for the women and girls around them not to cause him to fall and especially within a church setting.
Each believer is the church. I know that. But tell me what do YOU call a church building? Since you thaught I missed named it. I called it a place to worship or maybe "His" in meaning everything belongs to Him and we go to a place to worship and pray to Him and for Jesus and the Holy Spirit to join us there. It is a place to ask God to join us as a community of worshipers.
I'd call it simply unnecessary.

jiggyfly
Feb 8th 2008, 11:42 AM
Yes I believe everyone needs to go to church. God's word tells us to get connected with like minded believers and to serve in some form within the church setting. But I can also see God in His creations around us...just like in the setting sun (colors) He so graciously gave to me one night last week. But saying you don't have to attend a church of your choice and be apart of it is not what God tells us to do.
And I agree that it is best if people have crucified self and the carnal and would behave accordingly after wards. But not everyone who attends a church has reached this point in their lives. Therefore they need to be taught and lead in the right direction on modesty (especially in church).
And true if every man were crucified in the flesh they would not be of subjection to an indecently dressed woman or girl. BUT since each one is not living in this form of crucified flesh, they need for the women and girls around them not to cause him to fall and especially within a church setting.
Each believer is the church. I know that. But tell me what do YOU call a church building? Since you thaught I missed named it. I called it a place to worship or maybe "His" in meaning everything belongs to Him and we go to a place to worship and pray to Him and for Jesus and the Holy Spirit to join us there. It is a place to ask God to join us as a community of worshipers.
I think that you missed my point, the point is the teaching. Teaching fashion and apparel do's and don'ts does not make one spiritual in the least. But teach someone to deny self and to take up their cross and to follow Jesus does cause spiritual growth when obeyed. There is a very large difference between being a disciple of Christ and a disciple of the christian religion. There is one and only one thing concerning the flesh that is pleasing to Father and that is the flesh crucified. He is not looking for obedient flesh even if it were possible. So does the flesh become crucified by teaching people to dress modestly? Someone wearing a suit and tie all the time or a dress down to their ankles does not indicate the lack of lust does it? Again I believe when we have to devote threads, books, and seminars to the teaching of fashion apparel code and conduct we definitely need to adjust our focus.

servantsheart
Feb 9th 2008, 12:12 AM
I'd call it simply unnecessary.

Are you implying that you don't believe in attending a church of your choice and being a 'working' part of it? How can that be unnecessary? Espceially when Scripture (as I stated before) tells us to find a church and become apart of serving within it.
I think I do get what you are trying to say about crucifying the flesh. Pastors just don't teach the things that might turn some off...they skip over the crucifing the flesh to keep attendance up...and many other things that some people just don't want to know and learn.
So this is why I said that in some situations people have to be lead by the nose to understand what is allowable and what should not be allowable in church dressing.
Pastors have to start teaching about the 'deeper' things of God and stop worrying about offending people. The ones who really want to get it and walk in Christ will be joyful to hear all of God's message preached and will gain maturity from it. The rest are probably those who will fall away for one reason or another and not look back.
But the people (the church) have to start letting their pastors know that they want a whole lot more then what they have been learning.

jiggyfly
Feb 9th 2008, 06:53 AM
Are you implying that you don't believe in attending a church of your choice and being a 'working' part of it? How can that be unnecessary? Espceially when Scripture (as I stated before) tells us to find a church and become apart of serving within it.
.
Yes I am saying that I don't believe it is necessary to participate in any kind of religious liturgy nor do the scripture suggest it.

servantsheart
Feb 9th 2008, 09:04 AM
Yes I am saying that I don't believe it is necessary to participate in any kind of religious liturgy nor do the scripture suggest it.
I disagree. Deut. 12:5; 31:11-12, The Mosaic Law commanded God's people to gather for corporate worship and the hearing of God's word....Lev. 23:
Much of Psalms is David praising the Lord in the midst of the assembly, "I will declare They name unto my brethrin, in the midst of the assembly will I praise thee.--Psalm 22:22; Ps. 42:4; 55:14; 122:1; 132:7.
Acts 2:46; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2...talks of breaking of bread (the Lord's Supper) in the temple.
Isaiah 56:6-7 My house of prayer; My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all people...see Mark 11:17.
Even if there is no command God's word is put forth for us to take example from and put into practice for ourselves.

jiggyfly
Feb 9th 2008, 01:17 PM
I disagree. Deut. 12:5; 31:11-12, The Mosaic Law commanded God's people to gather for corporate worship and the hearing of God's word....Lev. 23:
Much of Psalms is David praising the Lord in the midst of the assembly, "I will declare They name unto my brethrin, in the midst of the assembly will I praise thee.--Psalm 22:22; Ps. 42:4; 55:14; 122:1; 132:7.
Acts 2:46; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2...talks of breaking of bread (the Lord's Supper) in the temple.
Isaiah 56:6-7 My house of prayer; My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all people...see Mark 11:17.
Even if there is no command God's word is put forth for us to take example from and put into practice for ourselves.
I didn't say that I don't believe in gathering together with other born-again believers I just don't believe it must be done within the confines of the Christian religious institution. I see you still seem to struggle with separating the old and new covenants especially concerning worship. I also know the difficulty in getting free from this religious paradigm because up until several years ago I was very bound by the religious system and man's traditional teachings. I would love to continue on this subject but it is derailing the thread. If you would like to continue start a new thread and I will participate. God bless

ravi4u2
Feb 9th 2008, 06:47 PM
I think it is funny how one has to invoke the old testament to justify going somewhere to worship God.

Brother Mark
Feb 9th 2008, 06:54 PM
Hey folks, keep in mind the board rules concerning the church. You can read them at this link if you like.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=59397

I would prefer not to post them in this thread.

Thanks,

Mark

servantsheart
Feb 10th 2008, 08:13 PM
Hey folks, keep in mind the board rules concerning the church. You can read them at this link if you like.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=59397

I would prefer not to post them in this thread.

Thanks,

Mark
Thanks for the link. I read it and was so grateful that you stand behind the Word that we need to 'assemble' to be obedient to God {Hebrews 10:25}.
Thank you for stating this is not a 'coming out' ...that we only need to see God everywhere (!) and that fulfulls the obedience to gather and assemble as the faithful....
Have a very blessed day with God's wisdom being in you and His strength and His healing all around you.

servantsheart
Feb 10th 2008, 08:30 PM
[quote=ravi4u2;1531545]I think it is funny how one has to invoke the old testament to justify going somewhere to worship God.[/quot

humility.

servantsheart
Feb 10th 2008, 08:33 PM
I didn't say that I don't believe in gathering together with other born-again believers I just don't believe it must be done within the confines of the Christian religious institution. I see you still seem to struggle with separating the old and new covenants especially concerning worship. I also know the difficulty in getting free from this religious paradigm because up until several years ago I was very bound by the religious system and man's traditional teachings. I would love to continue on this subject but it is derailing the thread. If you would like to continue start a new thread and I will participate. God bless

Explain, please, in other thread. Thanks, have a blessed and joy filled day in the Lord.

ravi4u2
Feb 11th 2008, 02:04 AM
humility.I have answered your question here: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=115332

jiggyfly
Feb 11th 2008, 01:46 PM
You are not rude. You are correct. I agree with you. I was just wondering how far from the old paths that the modermn SO CALLED church has gone. I certainly found out. UNFORTUNATELY, too may churches today claim that "...We are not your grandma's church", or "That God is doing something new". God is not doing anything new. He is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER. He has not changed and neither has HIS methods.

It breaks my heart that people today have absolutely no regard for the church or the pulpit today.

Thanks again Jangar.

Taddy

You might want to do a church history study and find out that even grandma's style of religious liturgy didn't exist until the third century. So what was God's method in the first two centuries and if He isn't doing anything new and everything concerning His ekklesia is the same then we can conclude the church history proves 1700 years of error. Now mind you I'm not an advocate of the modern Christian religious institution's methods as opposed to any previous methods because I'm not an advocate of any religious system, I think they are all in error pre and post modern.

jiggyfly
Feb 11th 2008, 02:02 PM
Samuel 19:23&24
23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

Isaiah 20:1-4
1 In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him,) and fought against Ashdod, and took it; 2 at the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; 4 so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

With the scriptures listed above I struggle to see how God could be offended by so-called less appropriate attire or casual wear than this post addresses.

servantsheart
Feb 12th 2008, 12:07 AM
When Jesus was walking the earth he walked in sandles....sandles at that time were for rich men....and did he not dress in his finest all the time and everyone dressed before coming before a king.
In the scripture you quoted Isaiah 20: 1-2, Saul was told to remove his sackcloth which was the garments of mourners ---he may very well have had other clothing underneath it since the sackcloth was made of goat hair.
1 Samuel 19:9- God had removed the Spirit from Saul and gave it to David. Evil spirits are subject to God's control and may have over taken Saul...the reson for him being dressed in this way.
1 Corinthians 12:22-24, On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need not special treatment.

jiggyfly
Feb 12th 2008, 02:32 AM
When Jesus was walking the earth he walked in sandles....sandles at that time were for rich men....and did he not dress in his finest all the time and everyone dressed before coming before a king.
In the scripture you quoted Isaiah 20: 1-2, Saul was told to remove his sackcloth which was the garments of mourners ---he may very well have had other clothing underneath it since the sackcloth was made of goat hair.
1 Samuel 19:9- God had removed the Spirit from Saul and gave it to David. Evil spirits are subject to God's control and may have over taken Saul...the reson for him being dressed in this way.
1 Corinthians 12:22-24, On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need not special treatment.
Your opinion really doesn't prove God's desire or requirements concerning how one should dress during a liturgical meeting does it?

servantsheart
Feb 12th 2008, 04:09 AM
jiggyfly

BY EXAMPLE> everything in scripture provides us with a visual and mental example of how to conduct our lives. When Christ went to pray on the Mount of Transfiguration (knowing he was coming before His Father), His clothing was "costly raiment'. Or His white and dazzling raiment ...Greek: Himatismos- costly or stately raiment, the apparel of kings, of officials; gorgeous vesture.
The point, Jesus knew He was presenting Himself to His Heavely Father. He didn't come in shorts, or tacky low cut clothing, or tight fitting clothes. He came 'dressed' in fine clothing and of modest dress.
When I think about going to assemble in my church I picture God the Father and Jesus the Son already there and waiting for us. Seeking after us. Desiring our friendship. Ready to spread their love over us and blessings and favor.
For me this is the one time of the week that I come before my KING to bring Him my love in a 'formal' setting. My worshiping Him for all He has done for me and my family. Why would I not want to present myself to Him in a way that brings back glory and honor to Him. He sees me all the time dressed in casual wear.

Diggindeeper
Feb 12th 2008, 04:58 AM
Samuel 19:23&24
23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

Isaiah 20:1-4
1 In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him,) and fought against Ashdod, and took it; 2 at the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; 4 so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

With the scriptures listed above I struggle to see how God could be offended by so-called less appropriate attire or casual wear than this post addresses.

Ziggy, the scriptures you gave do not promote attire or nakedness. The first one, which is in First Samuel, by the away, took place when Saul had been trying with all his might to kill David, and prevent him from becoming King, in his own place. But, David escaped--barely! And went to Samuel, the man of God, to seek refuge from his would-be-killer. We'll start here, with David's escape:

1 Samuel 19:18
18 So David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth.

But, Saul found out where David was:
19 And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah.

So he sent messengers to TAKE David. But the Lord saw to it that the plan to take David was foiled, and the tables turned!
20 And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.

My goodness! Rather than to TAKE David (so Saul could kill him), the messengers began also to PROPHESY! Because the spirit of the Lord came upon them!

So Saul sent other messengers to take David. But alas, the same thing happened to the second set of messengers! They, too, began to prophesy! In fact, he sent messengers THREE times to TAKE David, but the spirit of the Lord caused them to become like the other prophets, and they ALL began prophesying!
21 And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.

I guess Saul was running out of messengers :rolleyes: so finally, he himself went.
To take David. But something very strange happened to King Saul! Look what happened!
22 Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they be at Naioth in Ramah.

23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.

So Ziggy, it was not that God approved of Saul's nakedness. Rather, there he was, going in pursuit of David, to kill him. But David had surrounded himself with people of God, and Saul COULD NOT, COULD NOT kill David!

What a strange sight that must have been, to David and to Samuel and to all the other prophets, when King Saul exposed his nakedness before them!
24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

You see, nothing about this passage shows that God condones nakedness or that God wanted Saul to expose himself. No, Saul was not one of the prophets. He had been exposed.

servantsheart
Feb 12th 2008, 05:52 AM
I am no expert at trying to defend my stand on things but I do appreciate your stepping in with jiggyfly...I just sort of hit on the minimum...you explained it the way I have heard it taught.
Maybe you have a thought on the question of going to an organized assembly for church or just meeting in a Bible study.... this also centered on how to dress for church...if your interested....I stand ready to be corrected if you can show me that we (through scripture) are not suppose to attend a local church and be apart of it in whatever way the spirit leads us.
Thanks.

Diggindeeper
Feb 12th 2008, 06:15 AM
Well, the question of "going to an organized assembly for church or just meeting in a Bible study" would amount to derailing this thread, I think. I would be glad to participate if the question is started in another thread, but I can only participate after 10:00 at night. Its all the time I have.:cry:

For a short answer, I feel that my testimony is greatly hindered if I am not part of a local assembly of believers, in a church. Because the first thing someone will ask when you are witnessing is "Where do you go to church?" I also believe our testimony can be hindered if we dress like the world, or act like the world. We are a peculiar people, we who carry the testimony of Christ Jesus!

But that's fine with me. I don't mind being peculiar. And in all my ways, I pray that I can SHOW forth the praises of him who called me out of the darkness into his marvelous light!

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

jiggyfly
Feb 12th 2008, 11:21 AM
Ziggy, the scriptures you gave do not promote attire or nakedness. The first one, which is in First Samuel, by the away, took place when Saul had been trying with all his might to kill David, and prevent him from becoming King, in his own place. But, David escaped--barely! And went to Samuel, the man of God, to seek refuge from his would-be-killer. We'll start here, with David's escape:

1 Samuel 19:18
18 So David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth.

But, Saul found out where David was:
19 And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah.

So he sent messengers to TAKE David. But the Lord saw to it that the plan to take David was foiled, and the tables turned!
20 And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.

My goodness! Rather than to TAKE David (so Saul could kill him), the messengers began also to PROPHESY! Because the spirit of the Lord came upon them!

So Saul sent other messengers to take David. But alas, the same thing happened to the second set of messengers! They, too, began to prophesy! In fact, he sent messengers THREE times to TAKE David, but the spirit of the Lord caused them to become like the other prophets, and they ALL began prophesying!
21 And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.

I guess Saul was running out of messengers :rolleyes: so finally, he himself went.
To take David. But something very strange happened to King Saul! Look what happened!
22 Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they be at Naioth in Ramah.

23 And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.

So Ziggy, it was not that God approved of Saul's nakedness. Rather, there he was, going in pursuit of David, to kill him. But David had surrounded himself with people of God, and Saul COULD NOT, COULD NOT kill David!

What a strange sight that must have been, to David and to Samuel and to all the other prophets, when King Saul exposed his nakedness before them!
24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

You see, nothing about this passage shows that God condones nakedness or that God wanted Saul to expose himself. No, Saul was not one of the prophets. He had been exposed.

So then God's Spirit was upon Saul to prophesy while Saul was doing something that God didn't approve of, I wonder does this apply to everything???

Can you please address the scriptures in Isaiah that were part of the same post? BTW Diggy it's Jiggy not Ziggy. LOL.

jiggyfly
Feb 12th 2008, 12:04 PM
jiggyfly

BY EXAMPLE> everything in scripture provides us with a visual and mental example of how to conduct our lives. When Christ went to pray on the Mount of Transfiguration (knowing he was coming before His Father), His clothing was "costly raiment'. Or His white and dazzling raiment ...Greek: Himatismos- costly or stately raiment, the apparel of kings, of officials; gorgeous vesture.
The point, Jesus knew He was presenting Himself to His Heavely Father. He didn't come in shorts, or tacky low cut clothing, or tight fitting clothes. He came 'dressed' in fine clothing and of modest dress.
When I think about going to assemble in my church I picture God the Father and Jesus the Son already there and waiting for us. Seeking after us. Desiring our friendship. Ready to spread their love over us and blessings and favor.
For me this is the one time of the week that I come before my KING to bring Him my love in a 'formal' setting. My worshiping Him for all He has done for me and my family. Why would I not want to present myself to Him in a way that brings back glory and honor to Him. He sees me all the time dressed in casual wear.
You should be more careful in reading the scriptures, the greek word used in that particular text in Matthew and in Mark is not himatismos but rather it is himation which just means apparel or clothes not "costly raiment" for that matter himatismos does not signify "costly" so you might want to check your source. The scripture also says that Jesus' clothes became like white shining light. The greek word ginomai is clearly in both texts concerning Jesus' clothes and it means "to become".

So not only was Jesus transfigured so were His clothes. So then Jesus came dressed with His normal apparel and He and His clothes were transfigured By Father's powerful glory. So as you should be able to clearly see now it was not at all like you said in your post. Jesus didn't have to put on His Sunday-go-to-meeting outfit to please Father. Paul said "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ." It's not at all in any way shape or form about how someone covers their carnal flesh.

servantsheart
Feb 13th 2008, 04:03 AM
You should be more careful in reading the scriptures, the greek word used in that particular text in Matthew and in Mark is not himatismos but rather it is himation which just means apparel or clothes not "costly raiment" for that matter himatismos does not signify "costly" so you might want to check your source. The scripture also says that Jesus' clothes became like white shining light. The greek word ginomai is clearly in both texts concerning Jesus' clothes and it means "to become".
Everything I posted was typed word for word from W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words...with the original Hebrew and Greek meaning...so if you disagree with what I said then you are disagreeing with W.E. Vine.
So not only was Jesus transfigured so were His clothes. So then Jesus came dressed with His normal apparel and He and His clothes were transfigured By Father's powerful glory. So as you should be able to clearly see now it was not at all like you said in your post. Jesus didn't have to put on His Sunday-go-to-meeting outfit to please Father. Paul said "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ." It's not at all in any way shape or form about how someone covers their carnal flesh.\
I believe this is one of those discussions where we just need to agree to disagree on how to present ourselves before our creator.
But I NEVER said you must dress to meet the Father. YOU said that. I stated that "I believe" it is 'pleasing' to God to see us not only assembled but dressed modestly...for it is in how we cover our carnal flesh to make ourselves as pleasing and acceptable to God as our earthly bodies allow. God tells us that when we fast we are to put on our best face and not look like we are fasting. As representivatives of Christ and His church I believe we should afford God the same when we dress 'somewhat' and modestly to assemble in church.

jiggyfly
Feb 13th 2008, 04:16 AM
\
I believe this is one of those discussions where we just need to agree to disagree on how to present ourselves before our creator.
But I NEVER said you must dress to meet the Father. YOU said that. I stated that "I believe" it is 'pleasing' to God to see us not only assembled but dressed modestly...for it is in how we cover our carnal flesh to make ourselves as pleasing and acceptable to God as our earthly bodies allow. God tells us that when we fast we are to put on our best face and not look like we are fasting. As representivatives of Christ and His church I believe we should afford God the same when we dress 'somewhat' and modestly to assemble in church.

I agree that we don't agree and as far as who said, you said I said well the posts are all still here to verify that and your last post especially. You can try to side step but it is all there. Big difference between "dress modestly" and "costly raiment". I will refrain from commenting on your posts in the future, like you said we don't agree at all and I'll leave it there.

IPet2_9
Feb 13th 2008, 06:50 AM
Actually, I would feel no shame in wearing "costly raiment," either. I would gladly wear my tux to church every week. Only problem is, it would take awhile to explain to everybody WHY I wear a tux to church every week. Bottom line is, I have a tux, so...why shouldn't God get it? I'll wear it on cruise ships just to eat dinner, I wear it to silly Christmas parties where 80% of the people I don't even know...why not wear it for God? I know, God doesn't care how I look. But He still cares that I did it.

servantsheart
Feb 13th 2008, 07:54 AM
jiggyfly~~
May I extend a link of friendship and say I am sorry. I only seem to have pushed you in the direction I wanted to pull you away from.
I am sorry --I got to emotionally envolved with my feelings and will have to learn not to do this in furture discussions. I hope you won't avoid any forums where I am. I don't want that.
Only God sees our hearts and knows the truth of where we stand with Him.
Thanks

servantsheart
Feb 13th 2008, 07:55 AM
1Pet2 9
I liked your post!

taddy
Feb 19th 2008, 10:19 PM
JIGGYFLY: "You might want to do a church history study and find out that even grandma's style of religious liturgy didn't exist until the third century. So what was God's method in the first two centuries and if He isn't doing anything new and everything concerning His ekklesia is the same then we can conclude the church history proves 1700 years of error. Now mind you I'm not an advocate of the modern Christian religious institution's methods as opposed to any previous methods because I'm not an advocate of any religious system, I think they are all in error pre and post modern."


Thee book of Acts is God's only true church. Anything later is human made and does not matter.

I know I either wrote or read a similar response, but can't find it.

Taddy

Sooner87
Feb 21st 2008, 09:27 PM
I haven't read any posts on this thread other than the opening post. I just wanted to throw me two cents out there! :D I dress up usually when I go to church on Sundays in a nicer shirt, nicer shoes, usually jeans or slacks. But I don't believe that attire has ANYTHING to do with going to Church. Witnessing is another story. I have no idea if we are supposed to wear particular clothing, I just know that attire has changed in the past two to three thousand years, so are our "nice" clothes considered nice to what God would want or what the world tells us is nice?

Like I said, I have no knowledge on the subject! :D

Kahtar
Feb 22nd 2008, 01:40 AM
Decency and not causing another to stumble go a long way in my book.
But God looks at one's heart. We also should look at our own heart.
Why do we wear what we wear? To attract attention to ourselves? To put ourselves 'above' another? These things we should consider.

taddy
Feb 25th 2008, 09:15 PM
Good to see another SOONER. I'm proud to say that I Live right here in Norman Ok.

Bob Stoops for President

Jeff Capel for Vice president

Sherry Coale for Secretary Treasurer

Taddy

graceforme
Mar 7th 2008, 10:54 PM
I guess we're pretty relaxed at the church I pastor.

This past Sunday I wore slacks, a dress shirt & sweater. That's as "dressed down" as I ever am. Normally I wear slacks, shirt & tie - and often wear a suit. I don't carp & holler about it, but that's just the standard I've decided to maintain.

On the other hand, a high school boy read our opening Scripture on Sunday. He was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. Though it would have been nice to see him wearing slacks, dress shirt and tie, I doubt he even owns those things. He's a "jock". Plus, I'd MUCH rather see him on the platform reading aloud from the Bible, than to not have him do this.

One of our elders - a youth leader - always wears shorts (though they're not just gym shorts). While I might like to see him a little more dressed up than that, he does a fantastic job with the kids - and that's what is important.

I guess what I'm saying is that what you look like is less important than why you're there, and what's in your heart. But I say that admitting that I'd rather see people dressed up a little more... ;)


Good words. God isn't nearly as consumed with what clothes we wear to church as we are. I think everyone should dress modestly. I don't think that all the women who are to be up front for some reason would have to wear a dress. Any more than I think men should have to wear a jacket and tie. I have never seen my pastor in a suit. But I do remember a church we attended several years ago insisting that all women up front wear dresses. The funny thing was that some of them wore dresses or skirts that were so short they had to put "lap robes" over themselves when they sat down. I always thought they would convey a much better image wearing nice slacks that a dress or skirt that showed everything.

I sing and play guitar in my church and most Sundays I wear nice jeans and a sweater or jacket. That's perfectly acceptable in my church. We are very casual, and everyone is modest and clean. I think that's what is important.

Years ago, my brothers and I were invited to attend Sunday School with our cousins at their church. My aunt asked my mom if we had white patent-leather shoes. We didn't. Her reply "Well, all the children there wear white patent leather shoes." My Mom's response, "Well, if they only go to see what kind of shoes the children are wearing, I don't want my kids to be there anyway." We didn't go.

Some folks have become so wrapped up in the "cosmetics" of church that they put more emphasis on looks than on souls.

God Bless.

IPet2_9
Mar 8th 2008, 05:13 PM
There is really nothing we can do for God, whatsoever. Even our tithes and offerings--God doesn't really need money.

Think of what our kids do for us. They will make up a greeting card, nothing but a sheet of paper and a crayon, absolutely worthless. And yet absolutely priceless at the same time. Their little stick figures, and happy faces, and hopelessly warped artwork is worth more to us than the most expensive Hallmark card, ever.

Think of our dress code as that. It's not doing anything for God. I know that. But still, do it for God anyway.

graceforme
Mar 8th 2008, 05:35 PM
It's all about the heart motive, isn't it? That's what God sees - our heart. WHY we do what we do.

snookums
Mar 24th 2008, 06:16 AM
just wading into this conversation. I don't believe pastors should be able to tell ladies to wear a skirt or dress however I do believe they can ask us to dress modestly. i.e. show no cleavage.

In another church it was expected that all those up front wore black on the bottom for trousers skirts etc and plain brightly colored shirts on the top. The song leader incidentally was only allowed to wear plain black at all time:B. Needless to say one very cheeky;):crazy: song leader had a variety of multi colored vests :idea:made that were plain black on the front and had some lovely handcrafted sequins and painted scenes on the back. He made sure he never had his back to the congregation...:bounce::bounce:.

Point in case I was once in a service and there was a girl who so obviously loved the lord but she was on stage in white Indian cotton with no bra on YUK. What a sight when she was dancing before the Lord. She wasn't flat chested either.

In summarizing I don't think it hurts for a dress code as long as long as it is sensible about what is allowed and not allowed.

For instance in the Sunday School I taught in many years ago I wore trousers always nice trousers because to wear a dress was just plain stupid:thumbsdn::thumbsdn:. I worked with the little ones and then with the 9 year old boys. With the little ones we worked on the floor so I got to crawl around on the floor :blush:with them. With the boys we would often take them onto our land and use the hill climbing in a lesson:blush:. Yeah definitely a place for a skirt. NOT

Just my opinion....;)

Servent
Apr 14th 2008, 11:13 AM
What’s the problem with letting people wear what ever they want? I thought it’s the holy spirits job to convict people of sin, yet everyone thinks its there job. It’s not, it’s His.
You don’t know, maybe your loving words to some girl who’s shirt is to low, ends up being the straw that breaks the camels back and she the leaves the faith because YOU though her shirt was to short. It happens all the time, most people that leave the faith, because of stuff like this.
God knows when it is the right time to convict someone of some behavior they are doing, you don’t.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 12:29 PM
What’s the problem with letting people wear what ever they want? I thought it’s the holy spirits job to convict people of sin, yet everyone thinks its there job. It’s not, it’s His.
You don’t know, maybe your loving words to some girl who’s shirt is to low, ends up being the straw that breaks the camels back and she the leaves the faith because YOU though her shirt was to short. It happens all the time, most people that leave the faith, because of stuff like this.
God knows when it is the right time to convict someone of some behavior they are doing, you don’t.

You have to go back to the original post and think about who it we are talking about. It's not just some girl who walked into the church. It is someone who is serving in the church.

Original Post:
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

What I never understand is why people have a hard time when they are in church and it is expected for those who serve to dress modestly.
Go and look at the posts on this board from those who struggle with lust and all kinds of pornography. If a person with these struggles goes to church seeking healing, only to find their eyes drawn to some women's chest, how is glorifying to God?

I get tired of hearing "God looks at the heart.." and your right. But while a man is lusting after this woman's bosom, God sees his heart is in sin.
Why is it so hard for a woman to button her shirt or zip it up..and why shouldn't she want too when she is in a place of representing Christ?

graceforme
Apr 14th 2008, 05:46 PM
You have to go back to the original post and think about who it we are talking about. It's not just some girl who walked into the church. It is someone who is serving in the church.

Original Post:
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

At my home church, women are to where dresses or skirts while teaching or singing behind the pulpit. Men are to where button up shirts. No t-shirts or shorts. We do this to give those positions the dignity they deserve.

Let me know what you think.

What I never understand is why people have a hard time when they are in church and it is expected for those who serve to dress modestly.
Go and look at the posts on this board from those who struggle with lust and all kinds of pornography. If a person with these struggles goes to church seeking healing, only to find their eyes drawn to some women's chest, how is glorifying to God?

I get tired of hearing "God looks at the heart.." and your right. But while a man is lusting after this woman's bosom, God sees his heart is in sin.
Why is it so hard for a woman to button her shirt or zip it up..and why shouldn't she want too when she is in a place of representing Christ?



You are so right, and in the post I sent that stated that God sees the heart, I only meant that it is not necessary for women to always wear a dress, or men to wear a three-piece suit to church. We were told at one church we attended that we couldn't greet at the door unless I wore a dress and my husband wore a suit. I asked them to take our names off the "greeters" list, and we just went around and greeted people on our own. Funny, those people didn't care what we wore. I don't believe God looks at us the same way that man does. I think everyone who goes to church should dress modestly. No man should be distracted by a very short dress or revealing blouse. Nor pants that are skin-tight. Modesty should always prevail. And if someone is a member of an assembly, and is dressing in an inappropriate manner, I think someone in authority should take them aside and explain to them, just in case they don't really understand, why they might re-think their apparel. And, honestly, I see the same thing in some offices and businesses thse day. Work apparel has become much too casual for my taste, in some places.

We had one lady who came to church wearing skirts so short that if she bent over the slightest bit, her undies were showing. Hmmmmm.

God Bless,
Linda

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 05:51 PM
I'm reading in Philippians and I'm sensing how Paul wants us as a church to work together to serve the Lord. When we rebel within our church walls by not abiding with what the church asks of us...who gets the glory for that?

too much today we are doing what we think is right in our own eyes..no one wants to listen to authority anymore.

If the church asks that you wear a skirt...wear a skirt...or go to another church..but don't rebel within the church walls.

amazzin
Apr 14th 2008, 06:00 PM
I'm reading in Philippians and I'm sensing how Paul wants us as a church to work together to serve the Lord. When we rebel within our church walls by not abiding with what the church asks of us...who gets the glory for that?

too much today we are doing what we think is right in our own eyes..no one wants to listen to authority anymore.

If the church asks that you wear a skirt...wear a skirt...or go to another church..but don't rebel within the church walls.

I agree with you 99.5% of the time. The remaining 0.5% has more to do with those churches who are so controlling that the issue often goes beyond what to wear. It is a symptom where they want to conform you to unbiblical/unscriptural rules. At such time, rebelling is good to knock some sense into the elders lives that they are losing people and youth to the rules. Speaking up to those rules can be a God sent.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 06:20 PM
There is always the option of going to another church.

We have a couple of churches in my area where you just wouldn't go to if you wanted to serve there and yet not dress up.

We also have churches where they don't care how you dress, just come and have a relationship with the Lord.

Pick a church you can feel the most comfortable in and go there.
Or go to an elder's meeting and discuss it in a mature fashion...rebellion doesn't take much to spread..I just don't see the Lord being pleased with that.

Brother Mark
Apr 14th 2008, 10:23 PM
I agree with you there Karen. I am no fan of dress codes or controlling been there done that and I think it does great harm. But when it comes to rebellion, let us appeal to our authority, and if they won't give in, then we can either remove ourself from the authority or submit. Unless of course, sin is involved.

On the other hand, I don't see where Jesus submitted to those in the synagogue when they tried to control him either. He simply did his thing and they got livid with him about it. A prime example was when he healed on the sabbath day.

So there are occasions when rebellion against a controlling spirit is proper. Yet, there are times when it is not. And as always, I think we need to recognize our spiritual authority and be in submission to that even if they get out of line on occasion.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 10:25 PM
Mark those people were not one minded with Christ. As a body of believers we are to work together for His glory.
I don't see any problem with representing Christ in a modestly dressed way if the church asks you too. I think is wrong to say "well fine, I won't serve here and I'll show you" by wearing what I want and starting my own ministry in the same church.

Brother Mark
Apr 14th 2008, 10:46 PM
Mark those people were not one minded with Christ. As a body of believers we are to work together for His glory.
I don't see any problem with representing Christ in a modestly dressed way if the church asks you too. I think is wrong to say "well fine, I won't serve here and I'll show you" by wearing what I want and starting my own ministry in the same church.

I do not believe that just because one is in church that folks are one minded with Christ. It was the religious crowd that crucified Jesus back then and they are still crucifying his folks today. The world doesn't care about my clothing but you can bet the religious folks do.

But we are not always speaking about modesty but sometimes control. I have heard it preached that a suit should be worn to church. That's moving over into religion and doctrines of men. Doctrine of God is modesty.... more than that gets into tradition.

I agree with you in this... if the church is that controlling, I'll just leave. No sense in staying around all that. At least not for me. But Jesus still didn't back down from using his freedom when confronted by a controlling brother, whether that meant healing on the sabbath, or gathering grain to eat on the sabbath. Nor did he back down in his teaching things that the synagogue folks didn't like. But it is clear he submitted to the chief priest, i.e. his spiritual authority.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 11:00 PM
Let's not forget with the OP said...If they were going to "serve" in the church they were asked to dress a certain way. I don't see a problem with that.
They didn't say that everyone who walked into the church had to act/behave or even dress a certain way.

When I say one minded, I am speaking of those who are believers in the body of Christ..we are one minded towards our faith in Him, not necessarily towards each other.

Philippians 2:2-"Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

Brother Mark
Apr 14th 2008, 11:07 PM
I thought I knew what you meant about being one minded towards him. But I have seen those that love dress codes more than they love people. My cousin said he was told he was going to hell because he wore shorts while mowing his grass. :eek: That pastor did not have the mind of Christ concerning clothing. One reason that the religious crowd went after Christ so hard was he didn't really participate in their traditions such as washings. We have to be careful not to have a "tradition" of clothing instituted in our churches as a doctrinal requirement that God did not put in scripture for elders, teachers, leaders, etc. Having said that, there are churches that ask their leaders to behave a certain way so as to present a united front. While some of their issues (i.e. no alcohol) I think are extra-biblical, I can certainly submit to them as long as I don't see the concept of the rule being more important than the person.

Anyway, a dress code that is more than "dress modestly" can potentially be problematic. I would much prefer a church that would say if ministering to business men, we recommend business apparel. If ministering to college kids, dress more casually. In other words, don't let the dress code be the message. Yet, let us always dress modestly.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 11:26 PM
I surrender....

I do agree it is different with teens and whatever situation you might be in.
I do not think it is so wrong for a woman to be asked to dress appropriately when teaching from the Bible to women or for men to wear suits when taking up an offering...That's just my opinion...it used to be called...respect.

Brother Mark
Apr 14th 2008, 11:30 PM
I surrender....

I do agree it is different with teens and whatever situation you might be in.
I do not think it is so wrong for a woman to be asked to dress appropriately when teaching from the Bible to women or for men to wear suits when taking up an offering...That's just my opinion...it used to be called...respect.

But that respect was cultural. Don't you think? That's the point I am making. It is not wrong for us to dress appropriately at all nor to suggest it. That's not what I am getting at. But if a church is open to the Lord, don't you think he might challenge their culture as he did the culture of his day? What one generation thinks is respect, another might see as disrespect. What one country thinks is respectful, another might see as disrespectful. Yet, in Christ, we can have an absolute standard about Him and that which pleases Him.

karenoka27
Apr 14th 2008, 11:56 PM
Mark you know what is funny? You and I have had this kinds of discussions before...we just seem to see things differently...I don't think it's a bad thing, but we are obviously not going to move one another to this side or that in our thoughts....still love you my brother...:hug:

Now with that said, you make a good point. My son is in college in youth ministry. He tells me often how he has to always know what is going on as we can't do things the way things have always been done. I don't have a problem with that..and I know some of us just like "the good ole' days.." but I hope and pray that a women's chest hanging out of her shirt is never considered respectable in the church.

Now I'm going to go put my skirt on and go to church, I have a ministry to serve in...;)

amazzin
Apr 15th 2008, 12:10 AM
Now I'm going to go put my skirt on and go to church, I have a ministry to serve in...;)

me too. what color is yours?

Brother Mark
Apr 15th 2008, 12:21 AM
Now with that said, you make a good point. My son is in college in youth ministry. He tells me often how he has to always know what is going on as we can't do things the way things have always been done. I don't have a problem with that..and I know some of us just like "the good ole' days.." but I hope and pray that a women's chest hanging out of her shirt is never considered respectable in the church.

Shoot, considered respectable or not, it would still be sin for her to dress provocatively. It will never be acceptable by the Lord that's for sure.

Yea, I know we won't agree, but at least we can be agreeable. ;)

Darren
Apr 16th 2008, 07:22 AM
in the pews---as long as all the merchandise is covered--we are o.k.

in the pulpit(main service)---strict dress code.

in the pulpit (youth or children)---less stringent.

i have seen women come to the front and dance for the lord and the only thing missing was a pole. :o

i have had to have men moved to the back because they had slobber stains on their shirts from drooling over the college girls we have.

in the pulpit (worship, preaching,....) most of the men wear suits. but some wear nice slacks and shirt. but please press them. women wear pants or dresses or skirts and blouse. just realize, that the platform is elevated and if you play the piano or keys consider how high the skirt will travel.

one of the drawbacks of the charismatic move is the casualness it brought.

and i do not believe we should take the spirit of god casually.

just my humble opine.

Brother Mark
Apr 16th 2008, 11:59 AM
in the pews---as long as all the merchandise is covered--we are o.k.

in the pulpit(main service)---strict dress code.

in the pulpit (youth or children)---less stringent.

i have seen women come to the front and dance for the lord and the only thing missing was a pole. :o

i have had to have men moved to the back because they had slobber stains on their shirts from drooling over the college girls we have.

in the pulpit (worship, preaching,....) most of the men wear suits. but some wear nice slacks and shirt. but please press them. women wear pants or dresses or skirts and blouse. just realize, that the platform is elevated and if you play the piano or keys consider how high the skirt will travel.

one of the drawbacks of the charismatic move is the casualness it brought.

and i do not believe we should take the spirit of god casually.

just my humble opine.


Why would you equate casual dress with taking the Spirit casually? What part of dress codes are biblical and what part are cultural?

Darren
Apr 17th 2008, 02:14 AM
as i said, these are my own thoughts not dogma.

dress codes for those in the pulpit is a matter of representation.

i work for a large international company, and when we bring in the ceo or any major corporate player from other companies, there is a large degree of pomp that takes place. we prepare for days if not weeks to put our best face forward. we are required to dress different than we would on a normal workday. we are asked to wear certain shirts and such that have our company logos on them. do we have to do this? no. but we do it because it is respecting the authority of that person.

you see the same when a dignitary goes anywhere.

if you were given an invite to have an audience with the president or a king, how would you dress? jeans and a t-shirt? probably not. dockers and a blazer? maybe. but in all likelihood, you would go and purchase a special outfit for the occassion.

so is not god as worthy of our finest?

again, just my opinion.

i do not judge those who dress in a less than formal way at church.

when i preach at youth rallies, i dress drastically different than when i preach on sunday's.

Brother Mark
Apr 17th 2008, 04:58 AM
as i said, these are my own thoughts not dogma.

dress codes for those in the pulpit is a matter of representation.

i work for a large international company, and when we bring in the ceo or any major corporate player from other companies, there is a large degree of pomp that takes place. we prepare for days if not weeks to put our best face forward. we are required to dress different than we would on a normal workday. we are asked to wear certain shirts and such that have our company logos on them. do we have to do this? no. but we do it because it is respecting the authority of that person.

you see the same when a dignitary goes anywhere.

if you were given an invite to have an audience with the president or a king, how would you dress? jeans and a t-shirt? probably not. dockers and a blazer? maybe. but in all likelihood, you would go and purchase a special outfit for the occassion.

so is not god as worthy of our finest?

again, just my opinion.

i do not judge those who dress in a less than formal way at church.

when i preach at youth rallies, i dress drastically different than when i preach on sunday's.

What did God clothe John the Baptist with to preach his word?

Or what did Isaiah wear?

Opinions are fine, but how can we ask "is not God as worthy of our finest?" Of course he is! The question isn't his worth. It's his desire! What does he desire us to wear? With John the Baptist, it was camel skins. I won't say what he told Isaiah to dress in. In the NT he told us what pleased him was modest apparel. Of course he is worthy of everything I have! If he desires me to wear a suit today, I will wear one. If he desires me to wear a camel skinned garment tomorrow, then so be it! It's all about pleasing Him in whatever he desires.

ShirleyFord
Apr 17th 2008, 02:34 PM
Or what did Isaiah wear?



Isaiah wore nothing for 3 years.

At God's command, the great minister and prophet of God, Isaiah, walked around naked and barefoot for 3 years as he prophecied:

Is 20:2-4 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

Zacharia
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:03 AM
As in going to any church, what one person would call respectable, another one would not. It most places, churches, businesses, and some schools. Appropiate attire is required.

The reason certain places have requirements is respect, along with the focus not going on individuals, but on what pupose they are in anyone of the places I have previously mentioned.

As per most, there are business, business casual, casual.
Unless it is a mennonite church or some kind of church that requires their flock to where dresses all the time. I have no understanding why it would be required that a Woman wear dresses only at Chrurch. No disrepect at all to the church, but it seams as a double standard and I would speak to the Pastor about it to get the clear meaning.

I am an Ordained Minister myself and have been to several different churches around the country, denominational and nondenominational, I have never heard of such a rule. I must leave with this comment, the Pastor may very well have their reason and should be asked if you are curious as to why the reason.

If youu do ask, could post the response here so that we can know. Thank you.

thediaryofjane
Apr 24th 2008, 02:40 AM
I'm not a leader, just a layperson, but I would like to say this. If someone is that concerned about what a person is wearing, then just maybe they need to be offended. It doesn't matter what you wear, as long as it's what God wants.

amazzin
Apr 24th 2008, 01:30 PM
As in going to any church, what one person would call respectable, another one would not. It most places, churches, businesses, and some schools. Appropiate attire is required.

The reason certain places have requirements is respect, along with the focus not going on individuals, but on what pupose they are in anyone of the places I have previously mentioned.

As per most, there are business, business casual, casual.
Unless it is a mennonite church or some kind of church that requires their flock to where dresses all the time. I have no understanding why it would be required that a Woman wear dresses only at Chrurch. No disrepect at all to the church, but it seams as a double standard and I would speak to the Pastor about it to get the clear meaning.

I am an Ordained Minister myself and have been to several different churches around the country, denominational and nondenominational, I have never heard of such a rule. I must leave with this comment, the Pastor may very well have their reason and should be asked if you are curious as to why the reason.

If youu do ask, could post the response here so that we can know. Thank you.

As long as I am not asked to wear a dress on the platform!!!

Ekeak
May 2nd 2008, 10:32 PM
I'de say something as small (or mabey much larger in some cases) as that could vary with the current happenings of the Church in question...

GodlyDads
May 4th 2008, 02:08 AM
Just wondering what you think.

Is it OK for a Pastor to place certain requirements on the people who serve as Sunday School teachers or stand behind the pulpit during service (such as special singers). Such as dress codes.

I think it's okay for them to set the standard wherever they want. I also think it's okay for you to go to a less formal church.

Personally, I preach from behind the pulpit in jeans most of the time. Sometimes I wear slacks, sometimes I don't. It just depends what I feel like wearing on Sunday morning. I always try to look nice, though.

I tell people to dress comfortably. If you're comfortable in jeans, great! If you're comfortable in a shirt and tie, great!

That's just me though.



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GodlyDads.com - Godly Men Talking About Being Godly Dads...And Other Random Guy Stuff

servant of Lord
May 23rd 2008, 05:12 AM
oh my, let me tell you what happened at church. this lady comes dressed in a dress with all showing on top part except for the breastfeeding device..but almost was it showing. the dress was short. Now, she has been there for awhile, meaning that she has been a member for 2 years...and has always dressed somewhat a little loose..but many overlooked it.
But, this was easter sunday. she gets up to take it upon herself to pass out commuion..no one asked her. she just wanted to. we had vistors and they could not hardly look at her..well, a lot of men had problems with it..
to make it short..this lady attacked a member of church who addressed her about it..
comes out the preacher says, this is just the way people dress today..
Oh, my I wish that he would stand up like many of you have...
Yes, the church should have a proper dresscode for teachers and preachers, etc..and the members . yes, those who come in may not know...and consideration should be taken for them..but the preacher needs to preach the truth about being modest.
It is sin.

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