Up here in Mass where I live our governor is trying to pass a law that will require children be in school for 8 hours a day. I have problems with this.

1. Our state taxes will go up to pay for the extra hours.

2. Teachers are already burnt out.

3. With and 8 hour day, at least 2 hours of homework a night, where will they have time for sports or play?

4. We can't keep kids from being bored in school for six hours, how do we plan on doing it for 8? I can see the dropout rate skyrocketing.

5. We have mcas testing here, and I know from what I have been told by my son and his friends, at least 3/4 of the yr, they are teaching kids how to take the test and pass, so the schools can get money. The yrs they don't actually take the test, they do practice tests. What happened to teaching kids useful information?

This will be a godsend for those who have to pay daycare though. I don't mean those who work out of necessity, I mean those who care more about work than thier kids. Those will be the ones who vote for it, if it comes to that. What do you all think?

What do I think? I think you've made a very sweeping statement about working parents (who incidentally provide employment for other people). Who are you to judge who works out of necessity or not? Have you seen their financial records?

My husband's a teacher here in the UK - school 8.30-3.30 plus extra-curricular activities. When I taught in France we did 8.00-4.00 days plus Saturday mornings.

I don't mean those who work out of necessity, I mean those who care more about work than thier kids.

I'm not judging anyone, I've seen it. In my own family. My own sil works because she gets more out of/and cares more about her job than being a mom, even though my brother made enough money for her to be home. She has told everyone so too. She doesn't employ people, she works in the floral dept of a store. But that's not the point of this thread anyway.

Up here in Mass where I live our governor is trying to pass a law that will require children be in school for 8 hours a day. I have problems with this.

1. Our state taxes will go up to pay for the extra hours.

2. Teachers are already burnt out.

3. With and 8 hour day, at least 2 hours of homework a night, where will they have time for sports or play?

4. We can't keep kids from being bored in school for six hours, how do we plan on doing it for 8? I can see the dropout rate skyrocketing.

5. We have mcas testing here, and I know from what I have been told by my son and his friends, at least 3/4 of the yr, they are teaching kids how to take the test and pass, so the schools can get money. The yrs they don't actually take the test, they do practice tests. What happened to teaching kids useful information?

This will be a godsend for those who have to pay daycare though. I don't mean those who work out of necessity, I mean those who care more about work than thier kids. Those will be the ones who vote for it, if it comes to that. What do you all think?

Can you link to the actual plan of what they are proposing? Hard to comment without it.:)

Eight hour school days seems long to me, especially when factoring in homework/chores afterwards. Children should be allowed to be children.

Could you provide context? Are they considering this for elementary school students, or for highschool students? Public board or private board? Are they currently only teaching for 6 hours a day (ie, something like 9 am to 3 pm?) and which changes are they considering making (ie, 8 am to 4 pm)?

A link to a news article or document would be great. :)

For elementary schools, I can REALLY see the 8 hour school day being a problem -- you're cutting into extra sleep time, professional development time, possibly intramural sports/activities time, certainly clubs/after-school events time, marking time, social time... etc.

For highschools, on the other hand, in Ontario here they're already balanced so class starts at 8 or 8:30, roughly, and it's done between 3 and 3:30... for that age group, it seems to work just fine.

The QUANTITY of the in-school hours isn't nearly as important as the QUALITY of what' being taught during the hours available.

Down here my kids are in kindergarten and 4th grade, their school day is from 7:45am-3:25pm. We do schoolwork for an hour when they get home from day care, about 5pm, then we eat dinner or go to baseball practice, depending on the night. It is very rushed during the week, but we make the most out of every moment we do have. We spend weekends trying to catch up on family time with inlaws and cousins and trying to get the housework caught up. It is a busy life, but it is all we got right now, so we make the best with what we have.

http://www.nea.org/espcolumns/dv070323.html
Check this article out, what struck me that I didn't consider are kids who live in rural areas that already spend a couple hours a day riding a bus.

http://www.eagletribune.com/punews/local_story_077093855

http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.asp?id=3564

There you go.

Coffecat said-

Could you provide context? Are they considering this for elementary school students, or for highschool students? Public board or private board? Are they currently only teaching for 6 hours a day (ie, something like 9 am to 3 pm?) and which changes are they considering making (ie, 8 am to 4 pm)?

A link to a news article or document would be great. :)

For elementary schools, I can REALLY see the 8 hour school day being a problem -- you're cutting into extra sleep time, professional development time, possibly intramural sports/activities time, certainly clubs/after-school events time, marking time, social time... etc.

For highschools, on the other hand, in Ontario here they're already balanced so class starts at 8 or 8:30, roughly, and it's done between 3 and 3:30... for that age group, it seems to work just fine.

The QUANTITY of the in-school hours isn't nearly as important as the QUALITY of what' being taught during the hours available.
They have a school in my town already doing it. I agree with the elementary kids points you made too. Young kids attention spans just aren't up to that kind of time to be sitting and thinking all day. Then, you have these dr's saying kids need ten to 12 hours of sleep each night.
So lets see-

6:00 am wake up
7:30 bus for and hour
8:30 school starts
4:30 school end and bus home
5:30 dinner
6:30 two hours of home work at least
8:30 bed to get the recommended amount of sleep: wait hang on, where is the twelve hours sleep supposed to come in?

Another thing, with our kids being overweight, is having them sitting down for an extra 2 hours a day a good idea? Since this will also cut into any play time they do get.

http://www.nea.org/espcolumns/dv070323.html
Check this article out, what struck me that I didn't consider are kids who live in rural areas that already spend a couple hours a day riding a bus.

http://www.eagletribune.com/punews/local_story_077093855

http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.asp?id=3564

There you go.
Thanks Lyndie!

My opinion, FWIW, would be not to extend the day, but rather extend the school year to effectively year round with say 3 or 4 holiday breaks of say 3-4 weeks.

I can see some parents liking an 8 hour day though.

Thanks for the links, Lyndie!

Well, if they DO want to lengthen the school day, they'd need to make sure that the kids schedules were adjusted accordingly -- giving them one extra recess break and a longer physical education period as well. Their health and nutrition classes should equally be that much longer, if they want to play hardball with their scheduling. That might start to make up for some of the "missing time after school". And lets be honest.... how many kids go home after school anyways and RUN AROUND outside? ;) Don't a LOT of them head for the TV and the video games?

The odd thing is... I've heard doctors say, recently, that kids need over 10 hours of sleep. I find that REALLY odd. When I was in elementary, I was just FINE on 8 or 9 hours of sleep, and that's what the doctors in the early 90s were encouraging. So I ended up going to bed by 9 or 10... I was back up at 6:30 or 7 am.... and I was perfectly okay. *shrug* Do kids these days need more sleep, or were doctors just mistaken by an hour or so, when I was growing up? ;)

My school age dd sleeps from about 8 or 9 until about 7:30 or so every day. That's 10 1/2 - 11 1/2 hours a day. Since we homeschool she wakes up when she needs to... I almost never have to wake her up to start school (which we begin at 9 AM).

Just one more reason to homeschool....

How long are your school days now? (If you answered that question already, I missed it... sorry...)

We begin class at 8:00 and end at 2:50 here... so we have basically 7 hours here as of now. In our grade level, because of the home life of a vast majority of our students, almost every night the children have homework and it's the same every night: read to someone or have someone read to you for 15 minutes... and the parent, sibling, baby-sitter, etc. signs off on it... and study for the Friday spelling test. That's it. All other work is done in the classroom so that they will have more time at home for family things, sports, church, etc.

Requiring them to be in school for 40 hours each week isn't that bad. Compared to other countries, where their kids also do just fine, it's a bit less time spent at school.

And OP brings up standardized testing, which has nothing to do with how long school is in session, though is a bigger problem. The No Child Left Behind Act really lowered the American standard of education and made life harder for the decent teachers.

What does concern me, however, is the freedom highschool students will be given, specifically in their junior and senior years. While I was in high school, I took AP courses (and the corresponding tests) at the high school in the daytime, and in the afternoon took courses at the community college. I almost had my Associate's degree when I graduated high school, and to not allow high school students that choice seems to be a terrible decision.

How long are your school days now? (If you answered that question already, I missed it... sorry...)

We begin class at 8:00 and end at 2:50 here... so we have basically 7 hours here as of now. In our grade level, because of the home life of a vast majority of our students, almost every night the children have homework and it's the same every night: read to someone or have someone read to you for 15 minutes... and the parent, sibling, baby-sitter, etc. signs off on it... and study for the Friday spelling test. That's it. All other work is done in the classroom so that they will have more time at home for family things, sports, church, etc.

I do hope that if it does go to eight hours they will eliminate the homework aspect of it. My son's friend goes to a school where she gets about 4-5 hours a night. I can't imagine having to do that. I do wonder what changed so much over the years that we think we have to do this in the first place? A long time ago, schools for the msot part were okay, kids were learning. Honestly, I think it has more to do with what goes on out of school than in school. :hmm:

I do hope that if it does go to eight hours they will eliminate the homework aspect of it. My son's friend goes to a school where she gets about 4-5 hours a night. I can't imagine having to do that. I do wonder what changed so much over the years that we think we have to do this in the first place? A long time ago, schools for the msot part were okay, kids were learning. Honestly, I think it has more to do with what goes on out of school than in school. :hmm:

Why is it that most Americans seem to be so afraid of academic study?

Why is it that most Americans seem to be so afraid of academic study?
I don't think academic study and homework loads are the same thing. I have heard the rule of thumb for homework is 10 minutes per grade level (excluding projects and extra stuff like that).

Why is it that most Americans seem to be so afraid of academic study?

Why is it that some people believe the only way/best way to learn is sitting in a classroom with a book attached to your hip?

Why is it that some people believe the only way/best way to learn is sitting in a classroom with a book attached to your hip?
Personal experience has shown that a lecture, with intensive study have been the best ways to learn and retain new information, along with practice. Practice in math is working out problems, practice in writing is.. writing, chemistry is playing with chemicals..

There may be other ways to learn, and they are being explored more and more each year. However, because most of these methods are new, it's taking some time to actually teach the teachers how to do these. Classes for "alternative learning" ARE being taught in colleges though, and this is a good thing.

<3

Sitting in a class room with a book attached to your hip isn't the best way to learn. Anyone who works with children knows this - we are all different, we all take in and process information differently. Just because 'X' works for ten people doesn't mean it's going to work for twenty. You might have in that group of twenty people, five that learn best by being hands on and doing what they are 'learning', away from the classroom.

Also just to add; 'Americans' aren't afraid of academic study. Allan Bloom's 'The Closing of the American Mind' is an excellent excogitation on what was wrong (what is wrong, and what's going to be wrong) with the American educational institutions.

Personal experience has shown that a lecture, with intensive study have been the best ways to learn and retain new information, along with practice. Practice in math is working out problems, practice in writing is.. writing, chemistry is playing with chemicals..

There may be other ways to learn, and they are being explored more and more each year. However, because most of these methods are new, it's taking some time to actually teach the teachers how to do these. Classes for "alternative learning" ARE being taught in colleges though, and this is a good thing.

<3

There's nothing new under the sun. I'm sure that people used to learn by "doing" and not by sitting in a classroom. So these "alternative" methods really just seem new...like homeschooling seems new when in reality it isn't. Maybe aspects are new due to technology but I'd be willing to bet the basic concepts are not.

If you learn best by sitting in a lecture, reading a book, and then answering questions about what you read then that's great because that is what education seems to be geared towards.

But I don't learn best that way, I learn by doing and experiencing. Everything I learned that I needed to know about running my business was self taught, and if I would have tried to sit through classes on it, I would have given up due to sheer boredom.

And that's what college was to me, 4 years of sheer boredom. Does that mean I am an American afraid of academic study? If you say so.

But what it means to me is that there is no one size fits all. If you want to sit in a class and learn from a professor how to start a business, marketing techniques, etc that's great. I'd rather skip the boring lectures, do some reading, get some practical experience, and jump start by starting a business, not sitting for 4 years listening to theories on HOW to.

But since college was fully paid for, I did both. I sat and half way listened but the whole time I was working on my own thing. It's hard for people like me in a college environment. I have a friend who went through something similar.

It's not that we are afraid and unintelligent, in fact far from it. We don't believe in wasting time. Why drag things out? Why am I sitting here believing that I can only do these things after you tell me I am qualified by passing your tests? Why are you telling me that I can go out and do it now! I can sit through your lectures but at the same time I can gain some practical experience and make money at the same time.

So if you need 8 hours of school that's great but I bet you my kids would learn more in 4 hours per day.

That was my experience. To each his own.

My son is what is called a hands-on learner. He didn't do well with the sit and listen type learning. As far as what we teach them now, much of it isn't even practical learning anymore. We wonder why kids can't even add up change at Walmart. It all about "If the students pass a test, your school is doing well." But when they leave they know nothing about functioning in the real world.

It looks like at least 12 of the 19 schools mentioned in one of your links are either elementary or K-8 schools, which means that a lot of young children are going to need to be kept busy for an extra hour or two per day...

I can see the potential benefits in the plan, as stated in the link:



After one year, results have been positive in the 10 participating schools. Each now spends more time on math, literacy and science; integrates enrichment opportunities into the school day to motivate students to learn; and provides teachers with additional time to work, collaborate and plan together.


If, indeed, there is extra QUALITY time spent on academics and enrichment opportunities, and the teachers have more time to get their own work done rather than having to do so much take-home paperwork, I can see a benefit.

However, as a homeschooler who is not completely in support of the public educational system anyway, I can also see the drawbacks...more time away from the family home and parental authority, more time for negative socialization and bad influences, more time behind a a desk and less time living life. I realize that in many families there are two working parents, and probably most of these young children would go to after-school programs anyway, so in this situation the added hours of schooling might be a benefit. Bored kids are kids that tend to get in trouble, so if they are kept engaged and interested and learning, rather than wandering their neighborhoods looking for something to do, then I can definitely see a benefit in that.

So I guess I can see it either way! For some children, and some families, it might be a really good program, especially since the article about the 19 schools stated that most of them are in urban areas. Maybe these are targeting the most at-risk kids, and giving them a boost academically that they could use, as well as keeping them off the street. For other families, I can see the potential negatives.

My son is what is called a hands-on learner. He didn't do well with the sit and listen type learning. As far as what we teach them now, much of it isn't even practical learning anymore. We wonder why kids can't even add up change at Walmart. It all about "If the students pass a test, your school is doing well." But when they leave they know nothing about functioning in the real world.

Yes, that's the catch with the public educational system...it's nearly impossible to meet the individual learning needs and styles of 30 different kids in one classroom. If only there were a way to integrate that, to build curricula around teaching to all different learning styles, and incorporate real life, hands on learning, as the other poster stated above. Don't just talk about starting a business...do it! If that sort of thing was going on with these ELT days, then I can certainly see a distinct benefit to it! But if it's just more desk work, more waiting in lines to talk to the teacher, more mind-numbing textbooks, then I'm not so sure the benefits will outweigh the risks...at least for some kids.