I've heard many christians viewpoints. Thoughts?

I don't think you are allowed to post on this forum...but you can do polls on the Christian answer forum...so maybe a mod can just move this for you?

Considering this is a Christian forum...what kind of answers are you expecting? :rolleyes: I mean, wouldn't be obvious what we would say?

I don't think you are allowed to post on this forum...but you can do polls on the Christian answer forum...so maybe a mod can just move this for you?

Considering this is a Christian forum...what kind of answers are you expecting? :rolleyes: I mean, wouldn't be obvious what we would say?

I have christian friends who support gay marriage,
heck i have christian friends who ARE gay

I have christian friends who support gay marriage,
heck i have christian friends who ARE gay

So do they ignore certain passages in the bible then to make it ok to them?

So do they ignore certain passages in the bible then to make it ok to them?
what passages? if you could provide one or two i could answer

what passages? if you could provide one or two i could answer

1 Corinthians 6


Avoiding Sexual Sin

9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers--none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. 11There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

Romans 1:18
18But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.[6] 19For the truth about God is known to them instinctively.[7] God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.

28When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. 32They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

I have christian friends who support gay marriage,
heck i have christian friends who ARE gay

They're deceived. They have believed the lies from the devil.

MATT 13
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

what passages? if you could provide one or two i could answer

Moonglow gave some good passages here are some more.

Leviticus 20:13 (New Living Translation)

13) “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Romans 1:18-32 (New Living Translation)

18) But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19) They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20) For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

21) Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22) Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23) And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

24) So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25) They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26) That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27) And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28) Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29)Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30) They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31) They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32) They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

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Hello,

I did not vote in the poll, but wanted to point out that the question may have been flawed. Looking at your replies, you seem to be seeking something other then the question asks.


Is it morally and socially unacceptable not to be heterosexual? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1869835#post1869835)

The replies that infer opinion are answers to your question, the context of this forum demands a better answer. We, those who seek to submit to the Lord are not seeking to be 'socially' acceptable, or to conform to the world's view of what it moral. We believe that the Creator of the universe is much better suited to set standards of conduct and to define what is 'right or wrong'.

Some have answered with scripture, they have given the answer for what a Christian believes.

1 John 2:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I've heard many christians viewpoints. Thoughts?

Many "Christians" will say many things. The real question is what does Christ say - because Christ never contradicts what the Bible says.

*Lev 18 & 20 state in no uncertain terms that homosexuality (and beastiality, rape, incest, ect) are capital offenses. All parties suffered the death penalty. If we try to exempt homosexuality from those verses, we have to do the same for the other sexual offenses since they're all listed together, and this is not intellectual honesty.
We can ask if this is strictly a levitical/ceremonial stipulation on par with shaving one's beard, mixing cotton and wool, etc, as these are also called 'abominations'. The problem with going that route, however, is that no one prior to the Levitical law was killed for ceremonial offenses whereas Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God Himself for their sexual depravity as a warning to the rest of humanity (Gen 19, Amos 4:11, 2 Peter 2:6, Jude 1:7). Please note that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah occured at least 430 years prior to the Law being handed down to Moses by God. We have to conclude that these offenses are moral offenses (like killing, lying, cheating, etc) and not just ceremonial offenses (like eating pork, washing hands, etc).

*The idea of homosexuality being a moral offense not only predates the Levitical code, but it continues in the New Testamanet as well. Rom 1:19ff, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10 are just a few passages where a laundry list of sins are given as unbecoming of members of the kingdom of God, and these lists include homosexuality as behavior unacceptable to the Christian lifestyle. In fact, the 1 Cor 6 passage has several items worth noting:
-The passage (beginning in ch 5) is about actions that are not to be tolerated by members of the church. People **who claim to be Christians** yet engage in these types of immoralities (sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, verbally abusive, drunkard, swindler) are not to be associated with (1 Cor 5:11). Paul exempts those who are NOT believers from this type of disassociation: he says that God will judge them - but that we are required to judge and reject Christians who persistently embrace these kinds of evils. (This is not to be confused with Christians who struggle and fail at trying to kick these habits. Gal 6 deals with people in this category).
-The passage also goes on to say that 'some of you *were* this way, but were washed and sanctified' (1 Cor 6:11). This means that Paul firmly believed that it is possible for people in those lifestyles (sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, verbally abusive, drunkard, swindler) to leave them behind. That is the goal of salvation: sanctification, so that we become the image of Christ! Renewing the mind; rejuvinating the spirit.


So the next time someone says that homosexuality isn't condemned in the Bible, point out any of the above references. If they believe that Christians shouldn't be engaged in sexually immorality, greed, idolatry, verbal abuse, drunkenness, etc, then they have to also conclude that Christians have no business being engaged in homosexuality. To think otherwise is to be hypocritical about what the Bible says.

LC

Many "Christians" will say many things. The real question is what does Christ say - because Christ never contradicts what the Bible says.

*Lev 18 & 20 state in no uncertain terms that homosexuality (and beastiality, rape, incest, ect) are capital offenses. All parties suffered the death penalty. If we try to exempt homosexuality from those verses, we have to do the same for the other sexual offenses since they're all listed together, and this is not intellectual honesty.
We can ask if this is strictly a levitical/ceremonial stipulation on par with shaving one's beard, mixing cotton and wool, etc, as these are also called 'abominations'. The problem with going that route, however, is that no one prior to the Levitical law was killed for ceremonial offenses whereas Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God Himself for their sexual depravity as a warning to the rest of humanity (Gen 19, Amos 4:11, 2 Peter 2:6, Jude 1:7). Please note that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah occured at least 430 years prior to the Law being handed down to Moses by God. We have to conclude that these offenses are moral offenses (like killing, lying, cheating, etc) and not just ceremonial offenses (like eating pork, washing hands, etc).

*The idea of homosexuality being a moral offense not only predates the Levitical code, but it continues in the New Testamanet as well. Rom 1:19ff, 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:9-10 are just a few passages where a laundry list of sins are given as unbecoming of members of the kingdom of God, and these lists include homosexuality as behavior unacceptable to the Christian lifestyle. In fact, the 1 Cor 6 passage has several items worth noting:
-The passage (beginning in ch 5) is about actions that are not to be tolerated by members of the church. People **who claim to be Christians** yet engage in these types of immoralities (sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, verbally abusive, drunkard, swindler) are not to be associated with (1 Cor 5:11). Paul exempts those who are NOT believers from this type of disassociation: he says that God will judge them - but that we are required to judge and reject Christians who persistently embrace these kinds of evils. (This is not to be confused with Christians who struggle and fail at trying to kick these habits. Gal 6 deals with people in this category).
-The passage also goes on to say that 'some of you *were* this way, but were washed and sanctified' (1 Cor 6:11). This means that Paul firmly believed that it is possible for people in those lifestyles (sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, verbally abusive, drunkard, swindler) to leave them behind. That is the goal of salvation: sanctification, so that we become the image of Christ! Renewing the mind; rejuvinating the spirit.


So the next time someone says that homosexuality isn't condemned in the Bible, point out any of the above references. If they believe that Christians shouldn't be engaged in sexually immorality, greed, idolatry, verbal abuse, drunkenness, etc, then they have to also conclude that Christians have no business being engaged in homosexuality. To think otherwise is to be hypocritical about what the Bible says.

LC

Sir, unless you are a "completed jew" you have no right to point out Leviticus. If you want to take laws from leviticus I expect you to follow other levitican laws also. (jewish customs)

That aside, you believe homosexuality is a choice?

Sir, unless you are a "completed jew" you have no right to point out Leviticus. If you want to take laws from leviticus I expect you to follow other levitican laws also. (jewish customs)

That aside, you believe homosexuality is a choice?
I believe homosexuality is entirely a choice. God doesn't make people gay, it is people's experiences and upbringings, friendships, etc., that lead them to be gay. As for using Leviticus, it is not that only place that homosexuality being a sin is mentioned, for example it is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)


9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Sir, unless you are a "completed jew" you have no right to point out Leviticus. If you want to take laws from leviticus I expect you to follow other levitican laws also. (jewish customs)

That aside, you believe homosexuality is a choice?

All sin is a choice.

MATT 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which choose to go in:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The point about being a Christian is that what i think is unimportant. I have to submit to God/ Jesus. If he says anything is wrong and not to do it - it ends there or i sin. SofTy.

I've heard many christians viewpoints. Thoughts?

Hi there. :)

"Socially" shouldn't have anything to do with it from a Christian standpoint, I don't think. There are a good many things society accepts that Christians don't, and a good many things that society does not accept which Christians do -- for instance, a God who wants to pull us out of our sin and into relationship with Him.

Anything that takes us away from God, that pulls us away from His will, is morally unacceptable because if God's our source of morality, then no human measures of morality will be good enough. God designed men and women to be together. That being said, let's make a really important distinction: we ALL sin. All humans. Christians sin too -- of course we do. Are we tempted? Yes. But that doesn't mean we have to or should give in. Why settle for something less than what God wants for us? We do... regularly. When it comes to sexual sin, some Christians are tempted by homosexual feelings. Others are tempted by heterosexual feelings. If it's outside of marriage between a man and woman though, we believe that it's sin. And we, just like everyone else, struggles with that.

It might be that a Christian has homosexual feelings. You say, for instance, that you have friends who are homosexual and also Christian. I have friends like that too, and used to have strong feelings of bisexuality. Here's the thing...... feelings or not, temptation or not.... we know that God wants better for us than we'd give ourselves. We need to hold our ground and not give in, and call sin sin, even when it hurts to do that. We need God's grace and forgiveness and healing, not a more permissive attitude on our part.

I want to thank you very much for your thread. I know this is a "hot button" issue, and it's one that a LOT of people, Christians and non-Christians, trip on. Please remember, as you seek Christ, that He wants the very BEST for you.... and He wants YOU. :)

Sir, unless you are a "completed jew" you have no right to point out Leviticus. If you want to take laws from leviticus I expect you to follow other levitican laws also. (jewish customs)

That aside, you believe homosexuality is a choice?

Homosexual behavior is always a choice. Everyone is different in which sin most appeals to them and Satan uses this. To engage in homosexual behavior (even in thought) IS a sin according to the Bible and should be repented from.

I would like to add, that the focus of the seeker is Jesus Christ through the gospel/ good news. Search the gospels for Jesus talking about homosexuality, you won't find it. My advice for any person who is homosexual or lesbian is put the question aside until you meet Jesus personally. At that moment the Spirit will begin speaking to you.

My friends are right in all they say. I back them 100%. But there is a difference between a seeker looking at differcult life changes and a believer on their knees before the cross. Love SofTy.

I have christian friends who support gay marriage,

Then they need to repent.


heck i have christian friends who ARE gay

Then they are not Christians at all, but are using the name "christian" in some perverted way. someone who is unrepentant, whether it's alcoholism, lying, or a homosexual, cannot be a Christian.

Read 1 John and get back to me. The Bible states it, not myself.

Theo,

Romans 1:18-32 (as posted for you earlier is the scripture you requested).

God's design - Man. Woman. Man and Woman designed to have a sexual relationship together under the marriage bond. You can't deny that Man and Woman are designed to be together. We as human beings (the Male and Female) fit together like a Bolt goes together with a Nut. Can't deny that right? So if God's Design is Man with Woman, why does Man insist on defying the natural design by the Creator? I'll tell you why, because we're fallen, we humans have tasted SIN and we LIKE it. God has repeatedly told us (in some fashion) how and why to turn away from our Sinful LUSTS, God even destroyed two cities because Man wouldn't turn away from their Sinful desires. God even destroyed the whole human race by flooding the earth because WE wouldn't listen to OUR Creator.
Is Homosexual lifestyle a Sin? Yes.
Is having affair on your Wife/Husband a Sin? Yes.
Is Having sex with a very young child a Sin? Yes. These are all sexuals sins and this is how christians view all of them, not because christians don't care about "Rights." Somebody who is a Homosexual or Lesbian is a sinner. I'm a sinner. The Homosexual lifestyle is no more acceptable than a person who cheats on their spouse (both are sins). People today are SO wrapped up in this cause of "Human Rights" or "Gay Rights"...what? the right to Sin??...to remain in your Sin??

God have mercy on our souls because we don't deserve it, but Jesus died for my sins, and I'm forever grateful for what my Lord Jesus Christ did for me...My Savior. Thank you.

Hello theophobia,

The answer to the question in the OP is yes -- it is unacceptable. Scripture is clear that homosexuality is a sin. The reason it is a sin is because it rejects and defies God's design for sexuality:

Matt 19:4-5
4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh '?
NKJV


As to whether homosexuality is a choice or not, that is more complicated. Many homosexuals believe they never made that choice, but that they were born homosexual. I wouldn't want to argue with how a person feels about himself. But turning the discussion to a debate about whether or not it is a choice misses the point. Homosexuality is still sin. Those who are in sin are in bondage... maybe in some sense those who insist homosexuality is a choice can recognize that homosexuals do not have a choice, just as a slave has no choice but to serve his master. This is true of all sin.


John 8:34
Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
NKJV

Homosexuality isn't the only sin that people feel is compulsory for them. For example, some people, from a very early age, are drawn to the occult, because they believe they are a psychic and that they have always been that way. Others feel compelled toward substance abuse and become addicted. It's still sin, even though they didn't choose it.

It may be that you were born with homosexual tendencies. We are all born with a sinful nature, and one person has one set of sinful tendencies, and another person has a different set. We actually do inherit some of our sinful tendencies. Every one of us is born in sin.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, because we NEED to BE SAVED from sin. It isn't as if you can just choose and then you aren't enslaved to sin any more. You need Jesus to save you from it.


John 8:34-36

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
NKJV


It is shameful that people who call themselves Christian seek to justify rather than reprove sin. Those people you think are Christians who "are gay" or those who say they are Christian and justify homosexuality are deceived.


1 Cor 5:9-13; 6:9-11

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother , who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV