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Lxynton
Dec 8th 2008, 05:53 PM
I have been a christian since I was 3 years old and recently I have been asked by a co-worker how I could follow a God who accepts human sacrifice. I replied that he doesn't he only tested Abraham. But unfortunately I looked a bit foolish as he proceeded to tell me the story of Jephthah and his daughter. I admitted that I didn't know this story and I would get back to him. I looked it up and he is right! Jephthah does sacrifice his daughter to God in return for Gods help in defeating the Ammonites. I don't know what to say to this, I am nervous to talk to him, I don't know how to answer this one. Couldn't God have helped Jephthah defeat the Ammonites without the sacrifice of his only daughter? What is the need for blood? Could you sacrifice your child for God? I know my co-worker will ask me these questions and I must say that I don't think I could kill my child even if God told me to, like he did Abraham. I'm so confused, any help would do. God bless.

You can find the scripture in Judges 11: 30-40

tt1106
Dec 8th 2008, 06:15 PM
You should do a search. This has been covered before.
God didn't accept or not accept Jeptath's sacrifice. Jeptath made an oath he shouldn't have. If he hadn't been sinful his daughter would have lived.
Jeptath is guilty of the same crimes (Pride) as many other people in the Bible.
God cannot be blamed for this any more than he can be blamed for the destruction and atrocities that occurred in Jerusalem, during the 3 year siege.
These things occur because of one thing......"And they did Evil in the sight of the Lord".
I recommended a search becasue so many other people are far mmore eloquent than I and I'm sure they covered it in much greater depth.

kenrank
Dec 8th 2008, 06:55 PM
I have been a christian since I was 3 years old and recently I have been asked by a co-worker how I could follow a God who accepts human sacrifice. I replied that he doesn't he only tested Abraham. But unfortunately I looked a bit foolish as he proceeded to tell me the story of Jephthah and his daughter. I admitted that I didn't know this story and I would get back to him. I looked it up and he is right! Jephthah does sacrifice his daughter to God in return for Gods help in defeating the Ammonites. I don't know what to say to this, I am nervous to talk to him, I don't know how to answer this one. Couldn't God have helped Jephthah defeat the Ammonites without the sacrifice of his only daughter? What is the need for blood? Could you sacrifice your child for God? I know my co-worker will ask me these questions and I must say that I don't think I could kill my child even if God told me to, like he did Abraham. I'm so confused, any help would do. God bless.

You can find the scripture in Judges 11: 30-40

Did God ask him to sacrifice his daughter to him or did he do that on his own?

RANGER65
Dec 8th 2008, 07:04 PM
"And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years." (Jud 13:1 AV)

I can see where the Lord can be seen as party to the death of the daughter but there are two problems.

There is no dialogue between God and Jephthah as far as the arrangement, the reader assumes that God excepted and for this reason they were victorious.
The Old Testament was written by a Hebrew writer and in the original there are no breaks (i.e. chapters, sentences, etc. etc.) these were put in by the scribes of King James in 1611. The context of this story goes well into chapter 13 where the Lord punishes israel for this atrocity as well as others.

chad
Dec 8th 2008, 07:31 PM
God has never condoned human sacrifice. To God this is detestable and forbidden.


(Deu 12:31 NIV) You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

---

(Deu 18:10 NIV) Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
(Deu 18:11 NIV) or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
(Deu 18:12 NIV) Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

---

(2 Ki 16:2 NIV) Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD his God.
(2 Ki 16:3 NIV) He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

---

(2 Chr 28:1 NIV) Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD.
(2 Chr 28:2 NIV) He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and also made cast idols for worshiping the Baals.
(2 Chr 28:3 NIV) He burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his sons in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.




I have been a christian since I was 3 years old and recently I have been asked by a co-worker how I could follow a God who accepts human sacrifice. I replied that he doesn't he only tested Abraham. But unfortunately I looked a bit foolish as he proceeded to tell me the story of Jephthah and his daughter. I admitted that I didn't know this story and I would get back to him. I looked it up and he is right! Jephthah does sacrifice his daughter to God in return for Gods help in defeating the Ammonites. I don't know what to say to this, I am nervous to talk to him, I don't know how to answer this one. Couldn't God have helped Jephthah defeat the Ammonites without the sacrifice of his only daughter? What is the need for blood? Could you sacrifice your child for God? I know my co-worker will ask me these questions and I must say that I don't think I could kill my child even if God told me to, like he did Abraham. I'm so confused, any help would do. God bless.

You can find the scripture in Judges 11: 30-40

Lxynton
Dec 8th 2008, 07:39 PM
I can see where the Lord can be seen as party to the death of the daughter but there are two problems.
There is no dialogue between God and Jephthah as far as the arrangement, the reader assumes that God excepted and for this reason they were victorious.


You are right there is no dialogue but Jephthah asks God to help and in return he will give a burnt offering. Then the lord "gave them (the ammonites) into his hands". How is this not accepting? It is a contract and God did as Jephthah wanted when he clearly knew he would sacrifice his daughter. Please tell me why God couldn't have just said "I will help you defeat them, do not do such a wicked thing, I will not take your daughter as a sacrifice." I just don't think that my atheist co-worker will accept such a spin as that.

Friend of I AM
Dec 8th 2008, 07:54 PM
I have been a christian since I was 3 years old and recently I have been asked by a co-worker how I could follow a God who accepts human sacrifice. I replied that he doesn't he only tested Abraham. But unfortunately I looked a bit foolish as he proceeded to tell me the story of Jephthah and his daughter. I admitted that I didn't know this story and I would get back to him. I looked it up and he is right! Jephthah does sacrifice his daughter to God in return for Gods help in defeating the Ammonites. I don't know what to say to this, I am nervous to talk to him, I don't know how to answer this one. Couldn't God have helped Jephthah defeat the Ammonites without the sacrifice of his only daughter? What is the need for blood? Could you sacrifice your child for God? I know my co-worker will ask me these questions and I must say that I don't think I could kill my child even if God told me to, like he did Abraham. I'm so confused, any help would do. God bless.



You can find the scripture in Judges 11: 30-40

The Jephthah story is an interesting one.

The common understanding of the Jephthah story is that his daughter had to sacrafice herself in service to God without getting married. This is further supported by the following verse in which she states to her father..

Judges 11:37
And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

So it seems pretty apparent that she is lamenting over the fact that she would remain a virgin and not be married.

If you really want to make your co-worker think though..give him these verses..

Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.

Psalm
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

So we as Christians do indeed have human sacrafices to give to God each day..those of a contrite spirit and humility before him.

In Christian Love,

Stephen

tt1106
Dec 8th 2008, 07:56 PM
You are right there is no dialogue but Jephthah asks God to help and in return he will give a burnt offering. Then the lord "gave them (the ammonites) into his hands". How is this not accepting? It is a contract and God did as Jephthah wanted when he clearly knew he would sacrifice his daughter. Please tell me why God couldn't have just said "I will help you defeat them, do not do such a wicked thing, I will not take your daughter as a sacrifice." I just don't think that my atheist co-worker will accept such a spin as that.

Jephthah had the spirit of the Lord. He made a follish vow, one that violated mosaic law in the first place. He should have known better.

If I make a promise to God to volate god's law and then fulfill that promise, breaking God's law. Is God to blame or am I to blame?

VerticalReality
Dec 8th 2008, 07:56 PM
You are right there is no dialogue but Jephthah asks God to help and in return he will give a burnt offering. Then the lord "gave them (the ammonites) into his hands". How is this not accepting? It is a contract and God did as Jephthah wanted when he clearly knew he would sacrifice his daughter. Please tell me why God couldn't have just said "I will help you defeat them, do not do such a wicked thing, I will not take your daughter as a sacrifice." I just don't think that my atheist co-worker will accept such a spin as that.

The majority of Hebrew scholars agree that this passage is not talking about Jephthah actually killing his daughter. The more accurate translation is that Jephthah would consecrate his daughter to the Lord. Firstly, Jephthah is considered one of the giants of faith as he is listed in Hebrews 11:32 (the faith chapter). To offer human sacrifice was against Jewish law, so Jephthah would not offer such a thing as he walked by faith. However, if he consecrated his daughter for tabernacle service that would not be against Jewish law, and that is what most scholars believe this passage is talking about. It was a foolish vow to begin with, but Jephthah was not offering to kill a person for the Lord.

Thaddaeus
Dec 8th 2008, 10:33 PM
Jud 11:31Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering
This is not a human sacrifice but rather fullfilling a promise.
Jephthah didn't say he would sacrifice his daughter , He said he would whatsoever cometh forth, Just as these days in those days also or probably even more so they had animals that either lived in the house or just walk through the house ever once in awhile. this is what he thought he would offer up to God, now God knew. that is why we must really be careful what we say or even promise to God, the message we get from this is, it is better to not to vow a vow, than to vow one and not keep. the other message would be that God is Holy, and that not only he is a God of love which is mostly what is preached today but He is also a God of Wrath, He has given life and He taketh life, He is God and a God that we shouldn't ever question , just the God that we can trust. Job 28:28 (http://bibleforums.org/job+28:28)And unto man he said, Behold, the FEAR OF the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

the same God as yesterday , today , tomorrow, His wrath even remained in the new testament as it does today Ac 5:1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,Ac 5:2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it, at the apostles' feet.Ac 5:3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?Ac 5:4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Ac 5:5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.Ac 5:6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.Ac 5:7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.Ac 5:8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.Ac 5:9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.Ac 5:10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.Ac 5:11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


also in Ac 12:21And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.Ac 12:22And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.Ac 12:23And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.Ac 12:24But the word of God grew and multiplied.

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