** posted deleted: advancing doctrine against board rules**

Some information from Wiki...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

In many religious traditions, Hell is a place of suffering and punishment in the afterlife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife), often in the underworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld). Religions with a linear divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity) history often depict Hell as endless (for example, see Hell in Christian beliefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs)).

The modern English word Hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_paganism), and ultimately from Proto-Germanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic) *halja, meaning "one who covers up or hides something".

The word has cognates in related Germanic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages) such as Old Frisian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Frisian) helle, hille, Old Saxon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Saxon) hellja, Middle Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Dutch) helle (modern Dutch hel), Old High German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_High_German) helle (Modern German Hölle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holle_(goddess))), and Gothic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language) halja.
Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-BARNHART348-2) (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna)).

The English word hell has been theorized as being derived from Old Norse Hel.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-BARNHART348-2) Among other sources, the Poetic Edda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda), compiled from earlier traditional sources in the 13th century, and the Prose Edda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose_Edda), written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorri_Sturluson), provide information regarding the beliefs of the Norse pagans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_paganism), including a being named Hel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)), who is described as ruling over an underworld location of the same name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(location)).


Judaism

Daniel 12:2 proclaims "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism) does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a mystical/Orthodox tradition of describing Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna).

Gehenna is not Hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory) where one is judged based on his or her life's deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one's own shortcomings and negative actions during one's life. The Kabbalah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah) describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked).

The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna) forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 11 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology#The_afterlife_and_olam_haba_.28 the_world_to_come.29) (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven)). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah), where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.

According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds. When one has so deviated from the will of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God), one is said to be in gehinom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehinom). This is not meant to refer to some point in the future, but to the very present moment. The gates of teshuva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teshuva) (return) are said to be always open, and so one can align his will with that of God at any moment. Being out of alignment with God's will is itself a punishment according to the Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah). In addition, Subbotniks and Messianic Judaism believe in Gehenna, but Samaritans probably believe in a separation of the wicked in a shadowy existence, Sheol, and the righteous in heaven.

Christianity

The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament), where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus) or Hades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades) or the Hebrew word Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna). Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-3) [5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-4), where they will be punished for sin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin) and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_resurrection) and last judgment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_judgment). However, many Christian theologians of the early Church and some of the modern Church subscribe to the doctrines of conditional immortality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_immortality) ("annihilationism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism)") or universal reconciliation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation). [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-5)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-6)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-7)


Biblical words translated as "Hell"

Sheol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol)
In the King James Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Bible), the Old Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament) term Sheol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol) is translated as "Hell" 31 times.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-13) However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-14) Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-15)
Modern translations, however, do not translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death." See Intermediate state‎ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state).

Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna)
In the New Testament, both early (i.e. the KJV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJV)) and modern translations often translate Gehenna as "Hell."[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-16) Young's Literal Translation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_Literal_Translation) is one notable exception, simply using "Gehenna", which was in fact a geographic location just outside Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem) (the Valley of Hinnom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Hinnom)).

Tartarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus)
Appearing only in II Peter 2:4 in the New Testament, both early and modern translations often translate Tartarus as "Hell." Again, Young's Literal Translation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_Literal_Translation) is an exception, using "Tartarus".

Hades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades)
Hades is the Greek word traditionally used for the Hebrew word Sheol in such works as the Septuagint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint), the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, Christian writers of the New Testament followed this use. While earlier translations (i.e. the KJV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJV)) most often translated Hades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christianity) as "hell", modern translations use the transliteration "Hades" or render the word as "the grave" in most contexts. See Intermediate state‎ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_state).

Abaddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon)
The Hebrew word Abaddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon), meaning "destruction", is sometimes used as a synonym of Hell.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#cite_note-17)

Infernus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infernus)
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell".


Chad :rolleyes:

Jesus describes it as....outter darkness...where there's weeping... wailing and gnashing of teeth....

Good work Chad...:wave::thumbsup:

Um yeah thanks. I'm pretty sure it was not me who did all the work though. I just read the wikipedia page and posted the bits I thought were relevant.


Chad. :)


Good work Chad...:wave::thumbsup:

Jesus describes it as....outter darkness...where there's weeping... wailing and gnashing of teeth.... According to scripture in the final judgment; those who are condemned will be also brought back to life on that day. They will die the second death called the death of the spirit. For those who do not know this, the word "fire" is often used to mean judgment.
We do not worship a God who is without mercy. Exodus 20:6. And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Um yeah thanks. I'm pretty sure If it was not me who did all the work though. I just read the wikipedia page and posted the bits I thought were relevant.


Chad. :) Any steps in the right direction is good work.

According to scripture in the final judgment; those who are condemned will be also brought back to life on that day. They will die the second death called the death of the spirit. For those who do not know this, the word "fire" is often used to mean judgment.
We do not worship a God who is without mercy. Exodus 20:6. And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
So what are you getting at here? Are you saying that all get to live forever and that on one will be subject to eternal punishment.

mdo757...while I agree there is no hell...that it should have been 'hades' in the bible...what about the lake of fire? In Revelations we see death and hades are cast into the lake of fire...which is the second death. Revelation 20:14.

Meanwhile this article might interest you..it backs up what you are saying:

One Second After Death
by Dave Miller, Ph.D. (http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2244)

The term translated “hell” in Luke 16:23 is the Greek word hades, and is not to be confused with the word gehenna. “Gehenna” is found twelve times in the New Testament, and refers to the place of eternal, everlasting punishment—the “lake of fire” where Satan, his angels, and all wicked people will be consigned after the Second Coming of Jesus and the Judgment. So gehenna is hell. “Hades,” on the other hand, occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the recepticle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await the Lord’s return. At that time, our spirits will be reunited with our resurrection bodies (1 Corinthians 15:35-54).

Luke 16 shows us that hades contains two regions. One is referred to as the “bosom of Abraham” (which simply means “near” or “in the presence of ” Abraham—cf. John 1:18). The other region in hades is described as tormenting flame. Every other passage in the New Testament that refers to hades harmonizes with this description of the intermediate realm of the dead where the deceased await the resurrection and judgment.

I agree no one is burning literally in flames of fire...if the rich man in Luke 16 was, he certainly wouldn't be having a conversation as we read, but screaming in pain.

Be interesting to see where this thread goes.

God bless

In RCIA class I learned of the Pit in Jerusalem, and of Hell being the grave.

This then made me question if the Hell that we know truely exists?

The more I learn about christianity and god the more it shatters the standard image of what I believed there to be.

Hell is eternal seperation from God and there is definitely that.

I have never even heard of some of those Bible versions...

And if there were no hell, then what happens after death to those who don't choose Jesus?


Hell is eternal seperation from God and there is definitely that.

Agreed.

If there is no hell then explain this passage

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

I have never even heard of some of those Bible versions...

And if there were no hell, then what happens after death to those who don't choose Jesus?
Scripture says that the punishment for sin is death of the spirit in the final judgment.

So you are saying that hell is a pagan belief? Give me what you are trying to convey with scripture and not some other guy's thoughts on the matter, just use the scriptures.

So you are saying that hell is a pagan belief? Give me what you are trying to convey with scripture and not some other guy's thoughts on the matter, just use the scriptures. Are you asking for more examples? If so, then pick one. Pick a scripture.

Let's keep this on the topic intended by the OP - is hell a reality. This is NOT a translation discussion. ;)

As a mainstream protestant forum, it is believed that hell is real. As this can go many ways, moving this thread to the World Religions forum for continued discussion.

Are you asking for more examples? If so, then pick one. Pick a scripture.


How about the one that danlevans offered. If hell is not real, how do you explain this passage? Use the Bible to explain your reasoning please.



If there is no hell then explain this passage

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Are you asking for more examples? If so, then pick one. Pick a scripture.

I am not the one that needs to present the proof. I am in agreement with the beliefs of this protestant board and do in fact see hell being a real place spoken of in the scriptures. You are he one that started this thread claiming that hell does not exist so educate all of us with the scriptures and make the case without a shadow of a doubt. Use the scriptures and not a commentary from someone else, just scripture.

My view . . .

What difference does it make? Folks don't want to call it hell? Okay. Fine.

Let's just call it eternal torment. Let's call it eternal separation from the Lord. Let's call it a very undesirable location. I really don't care if folks want to toss out the word hell. Regardless of whether you toss that word out or not there is still a lot of places still talking about an eternal torment.

All is it is the word 'hades' should have been used instead of the word 'hell'..or the word Tartarus...while each word used, grave, pit, etc, etc, can have a little different meaning, it all boils down to the same thing...separation from God and waiting for the finial judgment in which then they will be cast into the lake of fire. (In some translations in Revelation it says 'death and the grave' will be cast into the lake of fire'...some say 'hell' some says 'hades. Some people feel its important to show the difference between all these meanings....but most people don't.

Part of the problem too is the many different bible translations use different words, some says Hades, some hell, some grave, etc ...and I think this adds to the confusion. So in trying to proof or disprove hell depends only on what bible translation is used but really they all mean pretty much the same thing.

In looking up 2 Peter 2:4, while the few translations I checked do say hell...when I checked Adam Clarks bible commentary the word that was suppose to be used was Tartarus.. in which he says this:

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=2pe&chapter=002
But cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness
αλλασειραιςζοφουταρταρωσαςπαρεδωκενειςκρισιν τετηρημενους. But with chains of darkness confining them in Tartarus, delivered them over to be kept to judgment; or, sinking them into Tartarus, delivered them over into custody for punishment, to chains of darkness. Chains of darkness is a highly poetic expression. Darkness binds them on all hands; and so dense and strong is this darkness that it cannot be broken through; they cannot deliver themselves, nor be delivered by others.

As the word Tartarus is found nowhere else in the New Testament, nor does it appear in the Septuagint, we must have recourse to the Greek writers for its meaning. Mr. Parkhurst, under the word ταρταροω, has made some good collections from those writers, which I here subjoin.

On the whole, then, ταρταρουν, in St. Peter, is the same as ριπτεινεςταρταρον, to throw into Tartarus, in Homer, only rectifying the poet's mistake of Tartarus being in the bowels of the earth, and recurring to the original sense of that word above explained, which when applied to spirits must be interpreted spiritually; and thus ταρταρωσας will import that God cast the apostate angels out of his presence into that ζοφοςτουσκοτους, blackness of darkness, 2:17; ; Jude 1:13,) where they will be for ever banished from the light of his countenance, and from the beatifying influence of the ever blessed Three, as truly as a person plunged into the torpid boundary of this created system would be from the light of the sun and the benign operations of the material heavens."

By chains of darkness we are to understand a place of darkness and wretchedness, from which it is impossible for them to escape.

While I don't like using the word, hell, but prefer hades instead and understand a little differently then many on here..its still is as equally bad as hell...and a place I surely don't want to go! Its a place the unbelievers go until judgment...in a sense they have already been judged.

God bless

I'm not saying that hell or punishment doesn't exist. The Bible is very clear about the fact that people who will not repent are going to suffer punishment for rejecting Him and for disobeying His commandments, if not in this life, then certainly in the next because God doesn't separate the two as far as I can see, and He is a holy and just God, although He is also exceedingly merciful.

Luke 12:48 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=12&verse=48&version=50&context=verse)
But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

How does being immersed in fire and agony amount to "few lashes"? I'm sorry, but that simply makes no sense to me. Somebody help me out here.

These are the words of the Savior, not anybody else's. And I have to go by what He says and put everything else into the context of it, rather than trying to interpret His words in light of traditional interpretation.

I'm not saying that hell or punishment doesn't exist. The Bible is very clear about the fact that people who will not repent are going to suffer punishment for rejecting Him and for disobeying His commandments, if not in this life, then certainly in the next because God doesn't separate the two as far as I can see, and He is a holy and just God, although He is also exceedingly merciful.

Luke 12:48 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=12&verse=48&version=50&context=verse)
But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

How does being immersed in fire and agony amount to "few lashes"? I'm sorry, but that simply makes no sense to me. Somebody help me out here.

These are the words of the Savior, not anybody else's. And I have to go by what He says and put everything else into the context of it, rather than trying to interpret His words in light of traditional interpretation.

Because neither are literal...

The idea is about punishment...explained not in a literal way. Getting lashed was something the Jews understood as a punishment (probably by the Romans). Some parts of the bible say hell is total darkness and others say flames of fire...but fire would light up the darkness! Neither are to be taken literally just as the lashes aren't literal either. I had a great post on the board on a study of hell but apparently it got deleted when they were cleaning up old posts cause I cannot find it anywhere...:( I wish I had saved it because it was a good study...explained where the idea of hell came from in the bible and how the way hell was explained was due to their culture then...so they could understand it.

For instance From the book "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel.

Lee: What about hell being a place where worms constantly eat people's flesh?

Moreland: In Jesus' day, thousands of animals were sacrificed every week in the Temple, and there was a sewage system for the blood and fat to flow outside, where it gathered in a pool. There would have been worms and maggots constantly feeding on that waste. It must have been a very ugly---and smelly---place. When Jesus was teaching, he used this metaphor as a way of saying hell is worse than that disgusting place outside the city, a place all of His listeners would have known about.

Fires were also constantly burning outside of the city to burn the waste of sacrifices and trash....the 'never ending fire'...these were all examples Jesus used because the Jews could understand and relate. He was trying to tell them how horrible hell would be...I don't think it was meant to be taken literally though.

God bless

What I believe is that the Bible is correct. (2 Timothy 3:16) And when it says "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" then I believe by faith that is correct.

2 Peter 3:9 tells us that the Lord doesn't wish for any to perish but instead for all to come to repentance. However, He gave us free will or whether or not we choose Him. And if we do not do so, there are consequences for that.


Once again, if hell, or hades, or whatever name you choose to call it... is not real, what happens after death to those who do not believe in Jesus? Once He takes life from them, what then happens?

angels = 'messengers'. Fine. Doesn't change my understanding of WHAT they are, or what their purpose is.
hell = 'gehenna'. Fine. Doesn't change my understanding of what IT is.

Understanding the Word - anything that doesn't fit into MY theology is relegated to parable, metaphor and allegory. Convenient.

I want someone to show me where Gehenna is NOT a real place, where real corpses were thrown, with real fire (sulfer added), and real maggots eating rotting burning flesh existed.

Just one person?:hmm:

Do an internet search on what the Jews thought about Gehenna.

I want someone to show me where Gehenna is NOT a real place

I would think that all members here agree that Genenna was a real place.

Scripture let's us know that Gehenna was both a real place and....

it was also used in the NT as typology for an even worse place we commonly call hell; where the worm dieth not, and the fire doesn't cease, where the dead wicked are in torment forevermore, weeping and gnashing of teeth -- separate from God and His faithful followers.

No different than when 'Canaans Land' or 'paradise' or 'the garden' or 'the promised land' or 'Mt Zion' all being actual historical places that were also used throughout the bible as typology for Heaven.

A common literary technique used throughout scripture.

Thanks Moonglow, that really helped clarify some things for me.

I think that Jesus aimed at shaking people up when He made them aware that there was no guarantee that God would just welcome them into eternal paradise based on them simply being born into a nation, family line, or religious community.

"But unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish"

He really brought people back to the core of God requiring repentance and us never taking Him for granted, lest we find ourselves separated from Him, whether for eternity or not.

I cannot even conceive being separated from my Father and all alone without any hope of deliverance, even for one second. Who would I turn to? Where would I go? Who would help me? What would I do? All that is good comes from Him alone and can only be found in Him. To be separated from that ...

Jesus was in such agony that He sweated blood at the thought of becoming sin and being separated from the Father, even for 3 days, never mind any longer than that.

And so I think the pictures He gave for such a separation are very fitting, no matter what the actual experience of that happens to look like. Because really, it's not so much a "place" as it is a "state" (of existence), if you think about it, and once you experience the full impact of such a state, then the place isn't really going to matter much.

I want someone to show me where Gehenna is NOT a real place, where real corpses were thrown, with real fire (sulfer added), and real maggots eating rotting burning flesh existed.

Just one person?:hmm:

Do an internet search on what the Jews thought about Gehenna.

Gehenna (If I am remembering correctly here...I had it on my study of hell post that I can't find) came to be called that due to what was happening in the OT...the Jews started following the pagans in worshiping pagan gods and throwing their live children into fire to burn them alive as a sacrifice to these pagan gods. We read this over and over again in the book of Kings...the bible phrases it as 'made them walk through fire'...it was horrible and ghastly and the Lord was mortified by these human scarifies.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?word=Gehenna&search.x=16&search.y=9&search=Lookup&action=Lookup)
In the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) Gehenna is rendered by "hell" (see ESCHATOLOGY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT). That "the valley of Hinnom" became the technical designation for the place of final punishment was due to two causes. In the first place the valley had been the seat of the idolatrous worship of Molech, to whom children were immolated by fire (2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6). Secondly, on account of these practices the place was defiled by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), and became in consequence associated in prophecy with the judgment to be visited upon the people (Jeremiah 7:32). The fact, also, that the city's offal was collected there may have helped to render the name synonymous with extreme defilement. Topographically the identification of the valley of Hinnom is still uncertain. It has been in turn identified with the depression on the western and southern side of Jerusalem, with the middle valley, and with the valley to the E. Compare EB, II, 2071; DCG, I, 636; RE3, VI.

In a real way it was 'hell' for the children that died there...so the idea of 'burning in hell' did come from the bible.


DaniHansen Thanks Moonglow, that really helped clarify some things for me.

I think that Jesus aimed at shaking people up when He made them aware that there was no guarantee that God would just welcome them into eternal paradise based on them simply being born into a nation, family line, or religious community.

"But unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish"

He really brought people back to the core of God requiring repentance and us never taking Him for granted, lest we find ourselves separated from Him, whether for eternity or not.

I cannot even conceive being separated from my Father and all alone without any hope of deliverance, even for one second. Who would I turn to? Where would I go? Who would help me? What would I do? All that is good comes from Him alone and can only be found in Him. To be separated from that ...

Jesus was in such agony that He sweated blood at the thought of becoming sin and being separated from the Father, even for 3 days, never mind any longer than that.

And so I think the pictures He gave for such a separation are very fitting, no matter what the actual experience of that happens to look like. Because really, it's not so much a "place" as it is a "state" (of existence), if you think about it, and once you experience the full impact of such a state, then the place isn't really going to matter much.

You are welcome. Some of us I guess are more picky about exactly what hell is or isn't...like some of us want to know more about Heaven!

On another interesting note..did you know most of the warnings about 'hell'...such as the passage about 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' is directed towards the believers? Scriptures show we are held to a higher standard because we know...

You pointed this out too in your post.

God bless

Hell the prison house of despair
Here are some things that will not be there.
No flowers will bloom on the banks of hell,
No beauties of nature we love so well
No comforts of home, music and song
No friendship of joy will be found in that throne.
No children to brighten that long drearynight
No love or peace not one ray of light.
No blood washed soul with face beaming bright
No loving smile in that regent of night.
No mercy, no pitty, pardon or grace
No water, O God! what a terrible place.
The pains of the lost no human can tell
Not one moments ease there is no rest in hell.

Hell the prison house of despair here are some things that will be there.
Fire and brimstone are there we know,
for God in his word has told us so.
Memory, remorse, suffering and pain, weeping and wailing but all in vain.
Blasphemers, swearers, haters of God.
Sinners who refused to be washed in the blood.
Lovers of pleasures more than of God,
Christ rejectors while here on earth trod.
Murders, gamblers, drunkers and liars,
will have their part in the lake of fire.
The filthy, devile, cruel and mean,
what a horrible mob in hell will be seen.
Yea more than humans on earth can tell
are the torments and woes of eternal hell.

I would think that all members here agree that Genenna was a real place.

Scripture let's us know that Gehenna was both a real place and....

it was also used in the NT as typology for an even worse place we commonly call hell; where the worm dieth not, and the fire doesn't cease, where the dead wicked are in torment forevermore, weeping and gnashing of teeth -- separate from God and His faithful followers.

No different than when 'Canaans Land' or 'paradise' or 'the garden' or 'the promised land' or 'Mt Zion' all being actual historical places that were also used throughout the bible as typology for Heaven.

A common literary technique used throughout scripture.

The actual word changed for the places you mentioned. Jesus still used Gehenna.