Hello all! So here's the thing. Lately, I have been attending this really awesome Catholic church. The congregation is wonderful and loving, the Pastor is kind, and they really help me understand the Bible. Currently, I am non-denominational, but I feel God is pushing for a change. I was thinking about joining this Church and being baptized a Catholic.

The problem is, some of my Christian friends don't consider the Catholic church to really be Christian. My experiences with this church lead me to disagree since they openly talk about the Bible and Christ. Yet they still insist that being a Catholic is going against God. Since I'm so new in Christ, I'm quite confused. I really feel that God wants me to become a Catholic to "get me in the system" so to speak, and to form a closer bond with my sister and grandfather. I disagree with some stances of the Catholic church, but overall, it seems like a good starting point for my relationship with Christ. I know it should seem pretty cut and dry; go with God. But the words of my friends keep running in my head. They give no logical reasoning for their views, so I'm stumped to why they think that. I'd love for some advice on this.

The reason you friends are discouraging you has to do with the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Are there Catholics who are 'saved'? Yes, of course there are. Are the Catholic Church's teachings consistent with Christ's teachings? That is a tougher question to answer in this forum.

Without trying to sound like bashing the Cathlic Church (this is not the forum for those kinds of posts) some issues that are most problematic have to do with the idea that the Pope would have knowledge that trumps scripture, that people require priests to intercede to the Father (that is Christ's role), and many 'extrabiblical' teachings such as the idea that Mary was born without sin and should be prayed to...

I think it would be fair to say that there are many teachings of the Catholic Church that are not found in scripture (although the men who wrote them would argue they are based on scripture).

I would recommend you search other threads on this forum to learn more.

Blessings,

(sorry about the edit, I accidentally hit 'submit' before I was done.)

The correct forum to weigh the merits / detractors of the Roman Catholic Church is the 'World Religions' forum. Here is a link (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=134052) to a thread there that discusses some of the issues / differences.

Hello all! So here's the thing. Lately, I have been attending this really awesome Catholic church. The congregation is wonderful and loving, the Pastor is kind, and they really help me understand the Bible. Currently, I am non-denominational, but I feel God is pushing for a change. I was thinking about joining this Church and being baptized a Catholic.

The problem is, some of my Christian friends don't consider the Catholic church to really be Christian. My experiences with this church lead me to disagree since they openly talk about the Bible and Christ. Yet they still insist that being a Catholic is going against God. Since I'm so new in Christ, I'm quite confused. I really feel that God wants me to become a Catholic to "get me in the system" so to speak, and to form a closer bond with my sister and grandfather. I disagree with some stances of the Catholic church, but overall, it seems like a good starting point for my relationship with Christ. I know it should seem pretty cut and dry; go with God. But the words of my friends keep running in my head. They give no logical reasoning for their views, so I'm stumped to why they think that. I'd love for some advice on this.

I think it's important to understand that we're Christians (first) who just happen to attend 'X' (Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic, Anglican) church (second). A church should not be baptizing anyone Catholic (or Pentecostal, Baptist, Anglican). A church should be baptizing people in Christ. I cringe when people say, "I'm baptized Catholic" -- it just shows how much they don't understand baptism.

Two areas to study out.

1 (as already mentioned above) Final Authority.The Pope or Scripture?

2. Justification. 'By grace thru faith with works' or 'by grace thru faith alone' ?

Talk with the pastor of that church about it.....See if you agree with what he sez ..he will give you a book I think to read on what they REALLY teach and what the words really mean not just how some take it

I can only agree with my friends above. I attend as my 'home' denomination, an Anglican church. But i regularly attend other churches of different denominations. I am open in future for God to call me to any of these churches for growth.

Any church that says it is the only church, the only right path, needs careful consideration. Also the baptism into that church, meaning seperation from a large part of the body/ family of Christ.

I understand you wanting a closer relationship with your sister and grandfather - but do they put a 'price tag' on their love? Did Jesus put conditions on his love for people? You'll have to read the gospels again and decide if that would be a healthy relationship? If you joined their church, what would be the next condition they would impose before they loved you?

Don't look on this as a Roman Catholic issue only. Many Anglican's consider themselves catholic (meaning universal church) with a small 'c',
but never want to be Roman Catholic.

Christ has a worldwide body of believers. At the moment i assume you accept them all, as you say you are non denominational. I would look for a church holding a similar position. The church is the body of Christ, it has no walls. However you are looking for a smaller group of believers to grow and learn within? Please don't let the first thing they teach you, be division.

As my signature says - we follow Jesus Christ, not men. We come to his Cross, we are baptised in his name, and we join his Church/ body. Love SofTy.

I grew up Roman Catholic, and I would advise that you find a church that has scripture as its ultimate authority. What I realize now about my youth as a Catholic is that it was never made clear to me exactly how Christ saves. The Catholic church's doctrine on justification is that the church acts to add to, preserve, or reclaim the grace of God. The work of Christ alone is not enough for salvation. I also found that though Christ was often mentioned, He was not the focus. Many homilies were focused around church tradition, the saints, and Mary, with Jesus as an after thought.

It is a struggle for me to speak about the RCC without getting angry, and it's something I work on daily. Bad theology hurts people, and I was certainly put through the ringer by the RCC. So, I'll pray for you, and I ask that you pray for me to overcome any bitterness I have toward the RCC.

Thank-you all for your kind and insightful answers. You certainly have given me a lot to chew on.

SofTy: Thank-you for concern but you needn't be worried about my sister and grandfather. It is not them who are pushing me to join their church; they have no problem with my current non-denominational status. Me becoming closer with them because we share this church would just be an added bonus. You are right when you say that I would like a setting where I can grow and learn with fellow Christians and I would have no problem going to other denominations. You certainly have given me some good advice.

Amos_with_goats: Funny that you mention those aspects of the Catholic church, because it is those I have the most problem with. I don't like how they've placed themselves and Mary on a pedestal so to speak. I will
definitely look around the board some more for some other insight. (The link you gave me didn't work though. For whatever reason I'm not allowed access to that page)

Xel'Naga: I think we agree more than we think. From my understanding, (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning) baptism is the process where we become new people within Christ and recognize that He is our Saviour. The "being baptized Catholic" was poor wording choice on my part.

monergist: No worries, I will for sure pray for you, and thank-you very much for praying for me. I understand your aversion to the RCC since you've had a negative experience with it. I've had negative experiences with some churches that have made me sour to them. So I completely understand.

Ultimately, I've decided to keep looking for a church/denomination that fits with me. I understand no denomination is perfect, but you guys are right, some teachings just are not sound. I will still go to that church on occasion, since I've had nothing but good experiences with it, but I guess it's best if I find one that fits more along the lines with Scripture.

I'm sensing that a lot of you think a non-denominational church would be best right now. Is that something like a United Church?

"Ultimately, I've decided to keep looking for a church/denomination that fits with me."

Be careful not to look for a church that "fits you" - That's very easy to find, find a congregation that teaches the Word of God and ONLY the Word of God - be careful, Jesus said a few times "Take heed that ye be not deceived". Remember - God's will be done - not my/our will.
Alot of the martys died because they said - "Solo Scriptura" - ONLY THE WORD OF GOD!
There is alot of very clever people in this world, with very clever ideas and clever things that they say and clever conclusions they get to - Measure them gainst the Word of God. "Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Read Matt. 7).

Seek God with your whole heart - undevided and you will find Him!

My Mother was Catholic, My dad is Baptist. I had the opportunity to explore different ways of beliefs and practices.
I now am a Confessed Christian Saved Sinner.

Because we are dealing with eternity, its important to make sure the decisions you make are correct.
The Catholic Church does many good things, and so does the Baptist, However so does the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses. We can be easily led astray, by nice and gentle people. Remember the Devil is slick, and powerful.
The question you are searching for is clearly written in the Bible.
A womens study bible can be purchased at a local Bible Store, and its easy to read and follow.
I would suggest you read that, and do much research on the net, just be cautious with the net because again you can be led astray. Always double reference anything you don't understand or doesn't make sense.

Christ loved the Church, and so should we. I will not recommend a place of worship, however, I am now Christian,and I attend A Christian Church.

I hope this helps you on your journey.:hug:

What have you decided to do?

What have you decided to do?

There is a chruch nearby that I found. It is non-denominational and their teachings they've listed on their websites seem to follow the word of God. They give Scriptual evidence for their teachings and there's no talk of Mary being a deity or anything so they seem pretty sound. I'll be checking them out this Sunday to get a better idea if this is the church for me. I think it might be though. You see I had come across the website of this church long ago in my search. I checked it out, it seemed good but I lost the adress and put it to the back of my mind. Amazingly, shortly after my last post, I was on Godtube, when the ad for the church's website came up. I think it might have been a message from God that this is where I need to go. I'll keep you guys updated on how my journey is going. Thanks again for all the great advice, you guys are great! :hug:

I would not reccomend the Catholic Church for anyone. I would reccommend going independant, reading the bible for yourself, and using your free will to have opinoins then find a place for you.

I would not reccomend the Catholic Church for anyone. I would reccommend going independant, reading the bible for yourself, and using your free will to have opinoins then find a place for you.

Jesus calls us to meet together (that is 'Church').

I would not reccomend the Catholic Church for anyone. I would reccommend going independant, reading the bible for yourself, and using your free will to have opinoins then find a place for you.

Respectfully ChristianKnight, this is not taught in Scripture. We are called to Communion, to a gathering together. We're not told to read the Bible for ourselves and rely on our personal feelings and our private interpretations. There's a good reason this isn't taught anywhere in the Bible-- it's a dangerous approach.

I would not reccomend the Catholic Church for anyone. I would reccommend going independant, reading the bible for yourself, and using your free will to have opinoins then find a place for you.
ChristianKnight - it looks like folks have misunderstood what you said, especially not factoring in the last 6 words.

I liken it to gathering your thoughts and seeing what the scriptures really say and then seeking out a place that says the same thing.

Looks like 'going independant' is not being tied into 'then find a place for you'. Perhaps you may want to clarify for those who need it.

I was raised Catholic as was the rest of my immediate family. It's great to be raised into the truth that Jesus died for our sins. When I came to Christ a few years ago and after reading the word on my own, I was disappointed when I went back to Catholic church because there is a lot that is taught (ie: purgatory, praying to Mary) that is not scriptural but that can be said for many denominations.

That being said it will be up to any believer to discern what the true word of God is. I would go for the gathering, but as for the word, you should read the Bible on your own and the Holy Spirit will guide you from there. I believe Catholics are saved because the Holy Trinity is taught as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Take your time finding a church. If its any help, look for a "Statement of Faith" and/or "What we Believe" or "Mission Statement." This should tell you alot about a church. What I look for is...
1. A church that believes that the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God.
2. The Pastor(s) teach from the Bible (and its not just his intrepation)
3. The Church has a good Bible study program in place
4. The Church believes in a triune God, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
5. The Church believes in the deity of Jesus Christ; His miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit; His virgin birth ; His sinless life; His substitutionary death on a cross; His bodily resurrection; His ascension to the right hand of the Father; and He died for our sins and whoever believes in this shall be saved.
Then of course, there's the other important things of a good church, i.e. Sunday School, a friendly welcoming congregation, room to grow spiritually within God's church, fellowship, youth groups, women and men groups...am I leaving anything out?

ChristianKnight - it looks like folks have misunderstood what you said, especially not factoring in the last 6 words.

I liken it to gathering your thoughts and seeing what the scriptures really say and then seeking out a place that says the same thing.

Looks like 'going independant' is not being tied into 'then find a place for you'. Perhaps you may want to clarify for those who need it.

Julian-- I went back and re-read the post you quote, and I do think I understand it better now. So, thanks. ;)

My primary concern though, is the idea that Scripture is a matter of private interpretation. I've seen that expressed in more than one post here, and that is a very risky way to read the Scriptures and search for ultimate truth, IMO. Not to mention it's not, in itself, a Scriptural principle.

Yes, the Holy Spirit will guide us, but we don't simply rely on our own interpretations of thoughts, feelings, imagination, etc. and call it the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it may well be...but just as likely it's our own feelings masquerading as imbued insight. That's not discernment...As humans we are uniquely susceptible to confusion, pride, self deception, sentimentalism, telling ourselves what we want to hear based on emotional prejudices, etc.

Prayer and asking for the Holy Spirit's guidance is one part of it, but the matter isn't settled there. Check yourself against the rest of the Scriptures, against the 2000 year history of the Church and how the apostles and early Church fathers interpreted those same texts.

That's just plain wisdom, IMO.

Ultimately, I've decided to keep looking for a church/denomination that fits with me. I understand no denomination is perfect, but you guys are right, some teachings just are not sound. I will still go to that church on occasion, since I've had nothing but good experiences with it, but I guess it's best if I find one that fits more along the lines with Scripture.

I'm sensing that a lot of you think a non-denominational church would be best right now. Is that something like a United Church?

This was deeply saddening to read. People do this all too often, they just accept what other people say as true, without actually talking to someone who is completely knowledgable on the subject. I would highly, highly recommend taking a second look at Catholicim instead of a cursory glance. From what I read, it seemed as though you didn't even look into the Churches teachings at all. Like most people, I'm assuming you heard what the certain teaching was about and you thought it was strange, you've never heard of anything like that in the Bible before, therefore it must be wrong and against it. What no one seems to realize is that the theologians that formalized (not formulated or created) these teachings knew so much more about the Bible than any of us. They studied the Bible "religiously," so to speak. If you can come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is wrong with your limited understanding of the Bible (I'm not saying this to be mean or to call you stupid, in fact, I'm sure you know more about the Bible than me), why is it that they knew these teachings were completely Biblical and true? I very strongly suggest that you go to some good Catholic websites for answers on such tough questions. I would also strongly suggest that you talk to that Church's priest about the teachings that are giving you trouble. He could probably help you out more than any website could. So please, look into it for yourself, don't just go with the status quo.

May the Lord be with you,
Zach

This was deeply saddening to read. People do this all too often, they just accept what other people say as true, without actually talking to someone who is completely knowledgable on the subject. I would highly, highly recommend taking a second look at Catholicim instead of a cursory glance. From what I read, it seemed as though you didn't even look into the Churches teachings at all. Like most people, I'm assuming you heard what the certain teaching was about and you thought it was strange, you've never heard of anything like that in the Bible before, therefore it must be wrong and against it. What no one seems to realize is that the theologians that formalized (not formulated or created) these teachings knew so much more about the Bible than any of us. They studied the Bible "religiously," so to speak. If you can come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is wrong with your limited understanding of the Bible (I'm not saying this to be mean or to call you stupid, in fact, I'm sure you know more about the Bible than me), why is it that they knew these teachings were completely Biblical and true? I very strongly suggest that you go to some good Catholic websites for answers on such tough questions. I would also strongly suggest that you talk to that Church's priest about the teachings that are giving you trouble. He could probably help you out more than any website could. So please, look into it for yourself, don't just go with the status quo.

May the Lord be with you,
Zach

Read the signature ;)
(I'm not equating early church Theologians as 'sons of the devil' or something, just saying)

Read the signature ;)
(I'm not equating early church Theologians as 'sons of the devil' or something, just saying)

Are you refering to my signature? So, the fact that the first church along with all it's members believed in the Real Presence until the Reformation (even Luther believed it to an extent) means nothing? They were all wrong? I know that it's true, my knowledge is based on scripture. Also, as my signature says, you can't get clearer on the Real Presence than what Jesus says about it in most of John 6.

Pax,
Zach

Ultimately, I've decided to keep looking for a church/denomination that fits with me. I understand no denomination is perfect, but you guys are right, some teachings just are not sound. I will still go to that church on occasion, since I've had nothing but good experiences with it, but I guess it's best if I find one that fits more along the lines with Scripture.

I'm sensing that a lot of you think a non-denominational church would be best right now. Is that something like a United Church?

I am glad that you have decided against joining the catholic church. My family has been in bondage to them for generations. My brother and I only escaped because when we were in a boys home for fours years growing up a little old baptist lady filled with the Holy Spirit took an interest in us.She taught us the scriptures and the true path to salvation which we both took later in life. I suggest you steer clear of the Catholic Church. They might try to sell you some indulgences to buy your way out of purgatory.

Are you refering to my signature? So, the fact that the first church along with all it's members believed in the Real Presence until the Reformation (even Luther believed it to an extent) means nothing? They were all wrong? I know that it's true, my knowledge is based on scripture. Also, as my signature says, you can't get clearer on the Real Presence than what Jesus says about it in most of John 6.

Pax,
Zach

Nope, was referring to: "What no one seems to realize is that the theologians that formalized (not formulated or created) these teachings knew so much more about the Bible than any of us. They studied the Bible "religiously," so to speak". Was referring to my signature.

Nope, was referring to: "What no one seems to realize is that the theologians that formalized (not formulated or created) these teachings knew so much more about the Bible than any of us. They studied the Bible "religiously," so to speak". Was referring to my signature.

I like your sig. ;)

I'm guessing your point is that knowledge of God won't save us, and that's true. But neither will "playing dumb" and willfully ignoring pertinent facts of Christian history that effect the way we should or shouldn't worship God today.

I like your sig. ;)

I'm guessing your point is that knowledge of God won't save us, and that's true. But neither will "playing dumb" and willfully ignoring pertinent facts of Christian history that effect the way we should or shouldn't worship God today.

This is the most difficult point I've ever made.

My point is this: teachings by men who 'knew more' and studied 'religiously' does not eo ipso mean their teaching is scriptural.

I am glad that you have decided against joining the catholic church. My family has been in bondage to them for generations. My brother and I only escaped because when we were in a boys home for fours years growing up a little old baptist lady filled with the Holy Spirit took an interest in us.She taught us the scriptures and the true path to salvation which we both took later in life. I suggest you steer clear of the Catholic Church. They might try to sell you some indulgences to buy your way out of purgatory.

I don't mean to be rude but it seems as though you know very little about the Catholic Church, before you go around talking about "escaping" from the CC, you should understand what you clearly don't understand about the Catholic Church. Just to let you in on a little secret, selling indulgences hasn't been done since the 16th century. Yes, I understand it was done, but, as we read in scripture :

Mt. 16:18

"18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

I know none of you believe that this verse proves the creation of the Catholic Church, but, it does (go ahead and debate if you wish), and, as we see here, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Wow else could it stay for 2,000 years without the Holy Spirrit and Jesus to protect it from satan? It couldn't, that's how we know the Holy spirit and Jesus truly reside within the Church. The selling of indulgences was just one obstacle that the devil created, which, with the help of Jesus, the Church has overcome.


This is the most difficult point I've ever made.

My point is this: teachings by men who 'knew more' and studied 'religiously' does not eo ipso mean their teaching is scriptural.

You're playing with a some 30,000 edged sword, everyone submits to certain beliefs that have come from people who 'knew more,' does that mean they're teaching is scriptural?

Pax,
Zach

You're playing with a some 30,000 edged sword, everyone submits to certain beliefs that have come from people who 'knew more,' does that mean they're teaching is scriptural?

I'm not playing with anything, don't take what I'm saying to the extreme. This isn't the proper forum for debate, however, so no more :)

Just a reminder here before this goes on much further...

Two things are in effect in the New in Christ forum:

1. No Debate...period...end of sentence...

2. The rules of the board state (extract):

IV. Specific Rules

Unorthodox teachings or discussing specific doctrines of ANY of these religions will be moved to
the "World Religions" Forum:
Teachings of ANY of these religions and discussion of specific doctrines may be discussed only in the World Religions forum
in the interest of seeking factual representation and refuting any doctrinal differences from mainstream Protestantism:

1. Seventh Day Adventist (SDA)
2. Jehovah's Witnesses (JW)
3. Latter Day Saints (LDS)
4. ANY non-Christian religion, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, etc.
5. Roman Catholicism.
6. ONENESS (DENIAL OF THE TRINITY/DEITY of Christ)
7. Universalism of any sort to include Universal Reconciliation

Let's get back on track here, shall we?

I was just wondering if you talked to a Catholic priest about your questions/problems with the Catholic Church? I really hope you did. I'm not Catholic myself, so I can't answer any of those, but you should should get Catholic perspetctive on the things you don't understand, not just Protestant ones. Before making a decision like this you should get the facts and not people's opinions, or at least hear both sides opinions, then you can decide for yourself what you think is right. In any case, I hope God leads you to whatever church is right for you!

I don't mean to be rude but it seems as though you know very little about the Catholic Church, before you go around talking about "escaping" from the CC, you should understand what you clearly don't understand about the Catholic Church. Just to let you in on a little secret, selling indulgences hasn't been done since the 16th century.

The pope offered free 'time off purgatory' when he came to my city (Sydney) for world youth day.

OK folks...This thread has gone waaayyyy outside of the parameters of the intent of the New in Christ forum.

Both sides of the issue have had their say, and from here it can only degenerate into argument and debate.

I thank everyone for their participation...however the thread is now closed.