I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

Our own flawed nature came about because Adam and Eve were tempted, and fell into temptation. God did not put that temptation there, and Adam and Eve could not "tempt themselves" because they were perfect and walked with God. There had to be someone else, and that was Satan, in the form of a serpent.

I would also recommend you to read the book of Job, as it is a very clear example of just how real Satan really is.

I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

You say you believe in Jesus. He seemed to believe that Satan was real as he mentions him several times. If satan is a matter of our flawed nature the following verse would be non sensical.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
(Luk 10:18)

It may not require the need to believe satan is a real being to be saved, but to deny satan as a being is to deny Scripture and to deny scripture is a good indication one isn't saved.

You seem to be reading your own opinion into the text, can i ask why? What is it about Satan that makes you want him not to exist?

There are many literary styles within the Biblical texts. The apocalyptic language of Revelations does lend itself to use imagery as part of allegory. The problem with your hypothesis is that this is one of the only literary styles in the Bible that use allegory (apart from parables which are clearly defined as such in their context). The historical narrative texts mention Satan quite often as a very real person (not just a force but a person) that has a very real place in the narrative. There is no logical reason to presume the fact-based style would suddenly start using allegory.

And there's some truth in what you say. re: James 1:

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

I.e. God doesn't send the temptation, it ORIGINATES IN US - and the "enticement" part of the process comes from satan's boys who KNOW what "buttons to push" to get you "on board".

Whether you want to believe in the EXISTENCE of a "personal Devil" or not is likely to become moot at some point in the future when you SEE him for who/what he is. You'll be chilled at how much he HATES you without having any interest in you whatsoever. But regardless, you will be "processed" by him and his agents.

However, the larger problem is that you don't appear to take the Bible seriously as a "Valid Source Document".

AND that's going to become a HUGE problem to your Christian walk as you continue to increasingly reject the Bible as truth.

And there's some truth in what you say. re: James 1:

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

I.e. God doesn't send the temptation, it ORIGINATES IN US - and the "enticement" part of the process comes from satan's boys who KNOW what "buttons to push" to get you "on board".

Whether you want to believe in the EXISTENCE of a "personal Devil" or not is likely to become moot at some point in the future when you SEE him for who/what he is. You'll be chilled at how much he HATES you without having any interest in you whatsoever. But regardless, you will be "processed" by him and his agents.

However, the larger problem is that you don't appear to take the Bible seriously as a "Valid Source Document".

AND that's going to become a HUGE problem to your Christian walk as you continue to increasingly reject the Bible as truth.

Don't let Satan destroy you, cause he's already working on you. Please read and reread your Bible. God is not a man that HE should lie!! Satan is talked about by God and Jesus. The Bible says that satan tried to tempt Jesus for 40 days and nights in the desert. So, Christians think that Jesus and God are all-knowing!!! I don't know of any humans who are, do you?? Take it for what it's worth, and it's worth a lot, your salvation and eternal life or if you continue to choose these beliefs, there are dire consequences!!! My friend, we would not try to steer you wrong. We love our neighbors as ourselves...that is the "agape love" that only comes through God who so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON!!!:hug:

God Bless:)

If I am a new creation and there is no satan, where does the temptation come from?

If I am a new creation and there is no satan, where does the temptation come from?
Where did it come for the Isrealites in the Old Testament?

When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, what/who was speaking to the Lord, showing Him all these things? Was He holding a complete conversation with His "flawed nature?" Does that mean Jesus had a "flawed nature?"

I think it's completely valid to question traditional views, and think for ourselves (I'd much prefer that rather than rattling off somebody else's pre-chewed views), but it's also important that we think our personal views through and compare them to the logic of Scripture to see how and where it would apply, and to make sure it makes sense in every instance presented. There is a reason people believe the way they do and that they have arrived at the views they have. And by the way, just because a view is popular, doesn't make it right either. Questioning is good. But we have to remain in balance because our beliefs determine our actions and the way we approach God and other people.

Where did it come for the Isrealites in the Old Testament?

Our fleshy sin nature as well as satan.

You seem to be reading your own opinion into the text, can i ask why? What is it about Satan that makes you want him not to exist?

There are many literary styles within the Biblical texts. The apocalyptic language of Revelations does lend itself to use imagery as part of allegory. The problem with your hypothesis is that this is one of the only literary styles in the Bible that use allegory (apart from parables which are clearly defined as such in their context). The historical narrative texts mention Satan quite often as a very real person (not just a force but a person) that has a very real place in the narrative. There is no logical reason to presume the fact-based style would suddenly start using allegory.

I agree. Satan appears in too broad a range of scripture to be pure allegory. When a consistent allegory is being used it is obvious from the context. For example when anything other than a young woman is called a "whore" or "harlot" it is an allegory for a person or people who have left the one true God for some sort of idol. Satan is consistently referred to as an independant entity, even in pure narrative.

Our fleshy sin nature as well as satan.

Does anyone else find it interesting what passing mention satan gets in the old testament? He's little more than a prosecuting attorney in the book of Job.

Does anyone else find it interesting what passing mention satan gets in the old testament? He's little more than a prosecuting attorney in the book of Job.

I think it's cos with our heart we really should be interested in killing our own sin. Noone goes to Hell cos of Satan.

I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

Read Matthew chapter 4, Jesus was tempted by the devil, satan actually told Jesus if he worshipped him, satan would give Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth. I would find it hard to believe that Jesus was tempted by his own thoughts, or a thought reference of some kind, or a figment of his own imagination. No the devil is real, just as hell is real.
Be careful what you say you believe in, if it isn't in line with the bible, then your beliefs don't hold any ground. I oftened hear friends or even my own family has said..."I don't really believe there is a hell, how can a loving God let anyone go to hell?" I always tell those who say that, you're right, your god doesn't send people to hell, because he's not a god, you have made your own god to suit yourself (or to suit your beliefs), which is the oldest sin in the bible, its called "Idolatry."

Oh he's as real as the five fingers on your hand.... believe me... I served him for many years and was his prisoner.. until the One who could only set me FREE.. did....Jesus the Christ.... since then He has taught me about 'what' and 'who' had taken me prisoner...and he is real..


I agree with what Bob said here.....
quote:
Whether you want to believe in the EXISTENCE of a "personal Devil" or not is likely to become moot at some point in the future when you SEE him for who/what he is. You'll be chilled at how much he HATES you without having any interest in you whatsoever. But regardless, you will be "processed" by him and his agents.


Satan hates man and He hates God...He hates man because man was created in the image of God... and yes he hates 'immensely' without even having any interest in you whatsovever.. He especially hates the 'elect' of God.. he makes 'war' against those... One cannot imagine or begin to understand the 'immense hatred ' there is between satan and God.. and man.. until it is revealed to you by the Holy Ghost...

Personally I know of his intesne hatred and merciless activity.. even when I was a small child.. there was an instance when I was on family vacation.. I was probably 4-5 years old.. was fishing with my cousin on a dock..I did not know how to swim.. I was pushed from behind by 'something' into the water.. I was splashing and drowning.. by cousin jumped into the water to save me.. To them 'I fell in' into the water.. but I know there was something that physically pushed me into the water.. It was revealed to me after I asked Him about it...He said that the 'destroyer' wanted you gone....dead.. and yes even as a young child.. why? I don't really understand... but Jesus wouldn't let the destroyer take my life... Jesus was again standing there holding back the gates of hell as He has the 'keys' to them...as they were ready to swallow me up.. He used my cousin as an instrument to pull me out of the water.. and the first thing I did after He saved me in 1994.. I wrote my cousin a letter and 'thanked' him for being there to help me out of the water.. that was almost 40 years ago.. I remember that as clear as crystal.... I can still feel that 'push' from behind and falling into the cold water.. my cousin pulling me out and running me back to the cabin.. I thank God thru the Lord Jesus Christ that He was there to hold back the 'destroyer' , satan, from taking a young boys life... I understand today that He did that.. so that on Feb3 1994, a date He knew some 40 years later.. He would reveal Himself to me.. bringing me to repentance and Salvation.. His goodness and mercy.... the revelation of it.. bringing me to my knees... being Born Again by the will of God...

If you are 'His'.. that is Jesus the Christ's.. you will encounter your spiritual adversary.. there is no way around it.. he knows who you are and you 'will' know who he is and what he is about.. thru the Power of the Spirit and the Wisdom and knowledge of Jesus Christ..

Does anyone else find it interesting what passing mention satan gets in the old testament? He's little more than a prosecuting attorney in the book of Job.

He plays a bigger role in Genesis.;)

I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

This is a slippery slope. If you want to reinterpret how satan is defined in scripture what is going to keep you from doing the same with other biblical truths ? How about God the Father? God the Holy Spirit? God the Son,Jesus Christ? The word of God is spiritual and may times it grates against our flesh. We have to be prepared to take what it says at face value to avoid our flesh from cherrypicking the truth it contains.

I think he was referring to the role of tempter whereby all humanity fell in the Garden of Eden...;)

I am a believer in God. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I also believe humans are sinful, and that through grace we are saved from our sins.

However, I do not believe in Satan in any way. I know the first thing I'll probably be told is "the Bible says..." and I am not saying anything in the Bible is false, but it may have symbolic language. Just as Revelations talks about a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, I don't think the Earth will ever see that, but it means something true.

So let me explain my position. I think Satan is a biblical reference to our own flawed nature. I feel that if I think there is actually a powerful being tempting me then I forfeit accountability. Now I'm not condemning anyone or trying to change your minds, what matters is your faith in God, nothing else. I would hope you feel the same way towards me and that my lack of belief in Satan is not a salvation-taking flaw.

We have thoughts in our heads. Sometimes very dark thoughts, very evil to their core. And people just can't accept that they are responsible for their presence, they blame Satan for putting them there. I just don't want to need that blame. I feel that I create my own temptations, and my subconscious mind generates my own sinful thoughts.

Well, if you believe in God, then you must know that God can not lie. So God is the one who created Lucifer(Satan), so do you think that God is a lier. He said it in His Word.

I don't understand how can you believe in God, but don't believe in Satan, because God is the one that mentions satan in the bible, along with others.

God can't lie, and he said it. So, if God says it then that means that it is true.

perhaps he is at work already by making you believe he doesn't exist?

In the Bible it states that God is "closer than the air we breathe" so to me, that means he is inside me (the air i breathe enters my body through my nose so therefore if its closer than that, God must be RIGHT inside me, ie, in my heart)

Perhaps Satan has a way of doing something similar (I am a novice Christian and do not have that much knowledge of The Bible as yet), so in a way, yes the thoughts are coming from inside you, but that is because Satan has got in there???

I'm sure my brothers and sisters on this site will have Biblical evidence of whether or not that is possible.....:hmm:

perhaps he is at work already by making you believe he doesn't exist?

In the Bible it states that God is "closer than the air we breathe" so to me, that means he is inside me (the air i breathe enters my body through my nose so therefore if its closer than that, God must be RIGHT inside me, ie, in my heart)

Perhaps Satan has a way of doing something similar (I am a novice Christian and do not have that much knowledge of The Bible as yet), so in a way, yes the thoughts are coming from inside you, but that is because Satan has got in there???

I'm sure my brothers and sisters on this site will have Biblical evidence of whether or not that is possible.....:hmm:

If God is within him (if he is Christian) then Satan cannot dwell in him (The Spirit inside cannot abide with Satan). But Satan can influence and tempt (as evidenced by his influences on men like Jesus, Peter and Judas; and that is why we must be on our guard against the enemy (this is war afterall - John 10:10).

thank you Revinius, that is great news. So, if God is living in us, as Christians, Satan cannot get in - but if we have not accepted Jesus we are leaving ourselves open to Satan dwelling within. Is this correct?

If so, I am very glad he can no longer dwell in me, I would much rather deal with him "at a distance" as it were....

thank you Revinius, that is great news. So, if God is living in us, as Christians, Satan cannot get in - but if we have not accepted Jesus we are leaving ourselves open to Satan dwelling within. Is this correct?

If so, I am very glad he can no longer dwell in me, I would much rather deal with him "at a distance" as it were....
Ephesians 2 says we were BY NATURE the children of wrath before believing the gospel.

Praise God that we can even hear the gospel spoken, let alone be able to believe it upon hearing!

Here's another example of what we (Christians) were before believing:

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Yikes! I know I had no hope and was without God in this cruddy world. Thank God for his goodness that was shown to me - for it truly did lead me to repentance (a change of heart). Now if only more of us would be out there showing others God's goodness - maybe more could be saved from the wrath to come and come to enjoy God's love.

Satan indeed is real - but how much greater a reality is it that God is in us, his children, to stand up to this evil in the world??

And Born Again Christians 'overcome' this world and the wicked one because...

and you have overcome because...



Greater is He that is in You........ than He that is in the world...

I would highly recommend Lee Stroble's "The Case For Faith". The book talks about 7 or 8 hangups Atheists/agnostics and some christians have with Christianity- I too didn't understand Satan or evil in general (like how could a loving God allow evil and suffering?) The book really cleared up a lot of issues for me. I now feel as if I understand that sin- all evil and all good was given to us as a part of free will. How can Good be good without bad? How can you know how awesome Jesus is without knowing what is bad? (Satan)...

Anyways READ THE BOOK! It cleared up sooooo much for me. Good luck!