I don't know what to do. One minute I am burning up mad and super feminist about everything, thinking that certain things are unfair to women, and the next minute I'm fantasizing about meeting a strong Christian man who will guide and lead me, and help answer all my questions. Its like I go back and forth every day!

Has anyone had this happen to them? What do you do?

Love to all,

Bex

It sounds like one of those battles that goes on between our flesh and our spirit. You want to do what God wants you to do, but you don't want to have to submit to someone, but you really do want to submit if that is what God wants..but it's not what your flesh wants...I'm getting tired just writing this!:hug:

Romans 7:15-"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."


Pray. I have a feeling if a godly Christian man comes into your life, you may find yourself wanting to have him be the spiritual head of the family.
And by the way, though we are married we are not independent of our thoughts and feelings. That is not what submission is. You can still be who you are!

Hi Bex,

Well, here's what I think. I could be wrong, but since you asked this is what strikes me immediately about your post:

You say you are "burning up mad and super feminist about everything". What is it specifically that you're mad about? It sounds to me like you're just a normal woman. See, women are attracted to men...that's perfectly natural! ;)

In general, feminism is a disordered philosophy. I think that these fantasies you're having about a strong man who will swoop in and take control is an example of your (perhaps subconscious?) mind using one extreme (knight in shining armour-type fixation) to balance out another extreme (irrational, man-blaming feminism).

It doesn't mean that you're indecisive or that there's anything wrong with you. I think you just need to to re-think why you say you're a feminist, what exactly that means to you and why exactly you are "mad". You won't be able to change anything until you understand why you believe as you do. Once you're outlook is more balanced, I bet your fantasies will balance out as well and then you'll be on a more even keel...it won't seem like you're going back and forth all the time between two different things as you describe.

I think my daughter (also named Rebecca) was a lot like you. Very feminist, never wanted to get married, though she liked men and had men friends, she certainly hated the thought of having kids. One day, when she was 27, she fell in love, got married and had 2 little boys within 13 months of each other....

I NEVER thought she would change.....don't worry, I think you're perfectly normal. Just be gentle with yourself and your life will just work itself out quite naturally...don't force anything and above all........don't worry.. :hug:

I am a feminist, and I am married and have been for decades now. ;)

Real feminism is not a disordered philosophy its about speaking out for the marginilzied and voiceless esp in theological contexts.

I am a feminist, and I am married and have been for decades now. ;)

Real feminism is not a disordered philosophy its about speaking out for the marginilzied and voiceless esp in theological contexts.

Interesting theory. I wonder, who exactly is "marginalized and voiceless" in Christianity?

I think she is talking about women. ;) But I don't want to put words in her mouth.

And to me, feminism is the idea that we are all people. Men and women can do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't hurt other people. Now some jobs might have certain requirements, like being a firefighter, that a lot of women might not be able to physically do, but they can sure try! And if they can do it, good for them!

If I want to be a police officer (I don't!), then I should try. If my brother wants to teach elementary school (he does!), then that's great! Let people be people.

I don't think women belong in the home. To me, that's just the silliest idea, like we're living 200 years ago. If you want to stay at home, great! If you want to work, great! Do what makes you happy.

Love to all,

Bex

Easy

The disabled, those who are black or asian or other coloured, those who are deemed to be the 'undeserving poor'............................et al

There is a huge difference between Christ and Christianity;)

Easy

The disabled, those who are black or asian or other coloured, those who are deemed to be the 'undeserving poor'............................et al

There is a huge difference between Christ and Christianity;)

So all minorities and poor people are marginalized? Who exactly is marginalizing these people though? And I don't understand how there can be a difference between Christ and Christianity. :hmm:

Serious, I'm not trying to be difficult lol. I just read these things and they look like a lot of words strung together, but I don't understand what is actually meant.


I think she is talking about women. ;) But I don't want to put words in her mouth.

And to me, feminism is the idea that we are all people. Men and women can do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't hurt other people.

But this is already the way things are. Men and women can in fact do whatever they want to do and accept the consequences of these choices. We don't need any new made-up philosophy of gender to make real what is already reality.


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i was a lot like you before i met my husband. i was as independent as they come, but when it came to my husband, i found the most joy in resting on him and letting him lead me. he led me to Christ, and now i can see that it is as it should be.

you can be as independent as you want, but you will always have to rely on God and his salvation. relying on a husband is much the same, IMHO. it doesn't show you are weak, it just shows that you have trust and faith. hope that helps!

So all minorities and poor people are marginalized? Who exactly is marginalizing these people though? And I don't understand how there can be a difference between Christ and Christianity. :hmm:

Serious, I'm not trying to be difficult lol. I just read these things and they look like a lot of words strung together, but I don't understand what is actually meant.



But this is already the way things are. Men and women can in fact do whatever they want to do and accept the consequences of these choices. We don't need any new made-up philosophy of gender to make real what is already reality.



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It may be the way things are now (at least in America), but its not like that in other countries like the Middle Eastern countries. Women can't drive cars or socialize with men who are not family members? What? Are they serious?

We couldn't even vote in America until what, the 1920s? I don't think we even were allowed to serve on juries until the 1960s or so. I know I've seen movies with all male juries taking place around that time.

We've still never had a woman president. Doesn't that tell us all something. We're more than half of the population. Why are we not represented that way? How many women are in congress? How many women run companies? I can't imagine why anyone would say "things are equal" now. They just aren't.

Frustrated,

Bex

It may be the way things are now (at least in America), but its not like that in other countries like the Middle Eastern countries. Women can't drive cars or socialize with men who are not family members? What? Are they serious?

We couldn't even vote in America until what, the 1920s? I don't think we even were allowed to serve on juries until the 1960s or so. I know I've seen movies with all male juries taking place around that time.

We've still never had a woman president. Doesn't that tell us all something. We're more than half of the population. Why are we not represented that way? How many women are in congress? How many women run companies? I can't imagine why anyone would say "things are equal" now. They just aren't.

Frustrated,

Bex

Its because of Christ things got better (and continue getting better) for women and children.

Those in the middle east are muslims...this is why they are treated so badly. I did this post about some girls having acid thrown in their faces for going to school...consider yourself lucky.
We are so lucky as women because of where we live and our religion (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=155807)

God bless

It may be the way things are now (at least in America), but its not like that in other countries like the Middle Eastern countries. Women can't drive cars or socialize with men who are not family members? What? Are they serious?

We couldn't even vote in America until what, the 1920s? I don't think we even were allowed to serve on juries until the 1960s or so. I know I've seen movies with all male juries taking place around that time.

We've still never had a woman president. Doesn't that tell us all something. We're more than half of the population. Why are we not represented that way? How many women are in congress? How many women run companies? I can't imagine why anyone would say "things are equal" now. They just aren't.


Yes but all these subjugations you mention are NOT legal anymore. And what goes on in Muslim countires isn't relavent to Christians in this discussion.

Men an women are absolutely equal now; but we are also different. God brilliantly created us with complementary natures and physiques. Honestly Bex, you have nothing to be mad about. ;)

If we are all equal ..... name the leading black african (as in form africa), asian (as in form Bangladesh et al) and poor and disabled who are leading Christian theologians whose thinking affects how we live the teaching of Christ.

That is before the subject of gender arises.;)

Now look at the role such people have in the western ideas of church.

If we are all equal ..... name the leading black african (as in form africa), asian (as in form Bangladesh et al) and poor and disabled who are leading Christian theologians whose thinking affects how we live the teaching of Christ.


How is it automatically unfair that there aren't as many of these minorites who are leading Christian theologians?

This is sort of a blanket statement, but it's as though you assume that there should be a certain number of representatives from each group of people on earth in every office. If that is the case, I'm curious as to how you arrived at such a concusion?

Because they ain't the minority in this world.

They are usually better qualified

Yet they ARE the minority in the church itself because the white west refuses to hear their voices.

Because they ain't the minority in this world.

They are usually better qualified

Yet they ARE the minority in the church itself because the white west refuses to hear their voices.

"the white west refuses to hear their voices"....? I'm sorry but I don't even know what that means.

Why assume that if any structure doesn't look the way you think it should look, that it's automatically unfair?

And on what kind of evidence or reasoning do you base a comment like "They are usually better qualified" on? The vague generalizations here are really hard to respond to. How exactly are "they" better qualified?

Because they ain't the minority in this world.

They are usually better qualified

Yet they ARE the minority in the church itself because the white west refuses to hear their voices.

They may not be the minority in the world but they are the minority in Europe & North America so naturally in the West they will not be represented in equal numbers to European people. Why is it that no white men are Tribal leaders of the Zulu peoples or white women for that matter?

Also the majority of non Europeans do not speak English or certainly not to as high a degree as native speaking English people. This is simply an inequality of talents as a result of Divine Providence which had them be born in a non English speaking country, that is, an inequality God made in His creation.

Coincidently if you go to Africa you will find African Bishops running the African churches and it is white people that there are not many off, does that mean white people do not have a voice in Africa?

How are they usually better qualified?

I contrast the level of Christian theological qualifications; those who hold such qualifications have to be better qualified to gain a teaching post in the western seminaries.

White theology has been imposed on other countries regardless of context yet when theologians from those countries try to raise concerns their voices are unheard by those in the west who prefer the narrative of

Divine Providence which had them be born in a non English speaking country

When this attitude is not backed by scripture itself.

Ok, to get back to the original post:

Bex, I COMPLETELY relate. My husband and I have bee together 7 years (married 1) and I am still learning to submit to him and let him be the man. While dating it was so easy. It was mostly superficial allowances I made to let him feel like he was the leader. But as time has gone on, I have really learned to allow myself to be just a woman. Now, I'm not saying that I wouldn't do "man" jobs or anything it's just a trust. In my situation, I was always raised to be the leader. I was the oldest child of 6, my mom worked too much to take care of us kids. I was responsible for them in more then one way. I developed the way of living that I had to take care of myself (and my brothers and sisters) because no one else would do it if I didn't. Even when I was petrified of a situation or something, I would never let on to the kids, I would put on this front and just handle it. So, as an adult, and a single mom, I was functioning as the mother and the father of my household. It was no change from childhood, it's just the way it was. After years with my husband, I am softened. And believe me, it was no easy task!! Can you imagine going from making all the choices and the money and the decisions to be humble enough to accept the opinions and the hep from someone else? WHOA!!
But let me tell you. He is strong, and patient.
I realized one day when my husband was teasing me for saying "OUCH!" that I never used to do that before. I used to feel that I had to be tough. Now I know I am protected and don't have to be as rough. I can be hurt, I can be gentle, I can trust. I can be who I am on the inside because there is this other half of me (husband) that takes up that role.
What is so funny is that my family has this image of me being rough and tumble, sometimes abrasive and definitely strong- The ultimate mega mom. I never understood it. I have always felt a gentleness and kindness. Always been sensative and caring and patient. But now I see that because of my upbringing of being taught to be my own husband, they never saw the inside of me.... Now they are learning and they are surpreised.
So I guess that I would say that in time you will find that right person and you will be less inclined to be so aggressive (don't know is this is the right choice of words here). I wouldn't worry about it. It will come with the right match! You are somebodies rib!!!

I contrast the level of Christian theological qualifications; those who hold such qualifications have to be better qualified to gain a teaching post in the western seminaries.

White theology has been imposed on other countries regardless of context yet when theologians from those countries try to raise concerns their voices are unheard by those in the west who prefer the narrative of


Hi again Elouise,

I'm curious...what is "white theology"...? LOL I've never heard of such a thing!

And do you have any facts whatsoever to support the rest of these very vague claims you're making?

Please get back on topic of the OP. If you wish to discuss the other topics, start another thread.

Ok Momof5, sorry that I went off-topic.

Elouise- I'd like to continue our discussion. If you would too, go ahead and start a new thread about it and I'll reply. ;)

Back to Bex and her OP, in case the point of my reply got lost in all the other replies lol:


I don't know what to do. One minute I am burning up mad and super feminist about everything, thinking that certain things are unfair to women, and the next minute I'm fantasizing about meeting a strong Christian man who will guide and lead me, and help answer all my questions. Its like I go back and forth every day!

Has anyone had this happen to them? What do you do?


This is perfectly normal, of that I'm certain. Women are attracted to men; that's the way God designed us.

In my opinion, if your feminist anger is clashing with your natural attraction to/fantasies about a good man, then one of them needs to go. Apparently the two can't be reconciled or else you wouldn't feel "torn" as you say.

My advice is to let go of the anger. It seems very vague and general, in any case. Let go of it, it won't make you happy. But finding your soulmate and building a life together like God intended you to very likely will make you happy.

I think the fantasies you describe show that your heart already knows this even if your head still needs to catch up. ;)

If you only knew how many times my heart and head disagreed! Like every single day it seems.

And its not like one is always right. I can't just follow my heart all the time - emotions are so tricky. But at the same time I know I overthink things all the time. I just can't stop myself. I have no idea why I am so obsessed with how poorly women have been treated. As you say, it is better now. I just get angry that it took thousands of years just to finally get even with men. And that's just in some parts of the world, like America. We are still soooooo far behind men in other countries. How long is it going to take??

And this one guy in our campus Christian group made me mad last week because he is so condesending (sp?) to the girls in the group. One minute he smirks and calls me the 'group's feminst" and then he asks me out (sort of). Ugh!

Confused but not angry,

Bex