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RZ06
Jan 31st 2009, 05:22 AM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?

CommanderRobey
Jan 31st 2009, 05:24 AM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins in Heaven?
The saved are not held accountable for their sins in heaven. They are held accountable for their works.


1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Sins were paid for at the cross of Calvary with the blood of Jesus Christ.

RZ06
Jan 31st 2009, 05:29 AM
The saved are not held accountable for their sins in heaven. They are held accountable for their works.



Sins were paid for at the cross of Calvary with the blood of Jesus Christ.

Maybe I confused the accountability for works for sins. What does that mean?

Is this perhaps a debatable issue w/ Christians? That some believe we are held accountable for our sins despite not losing salvation? I swear I've heard and read that before.

CommanderRobey
Jan 31st 2009, 05:47 AM
One is judged for one's works at the Judgment Seat of Christ. There, depending on the deeds done in the body, whether for Christ, or for self, rewards will be given out. Those rewards are crowns.

One cannot lose one's salvation, but one can lose a possible reward. For instance, Christ has a crown of rejoicing is given to one who is a soul-winner. Those who win souls are wise (Proverbs 11:30). But many, although they are saved, do not try to witness to others. The ones who witness will receive a soul-winners crown, but the one who does not will lose that crown that could have been his.

chad
Jan 31st 2009, 09:46 AM
The answer could possibly be in Revelation.

(Rev 20:12 KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Rev 20:13 KJV) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

(Rev 20:14 KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(Rev 20:15 KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


(Rev 21:8 KJV) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?

theBelovedDisciple
Jan 31st 2009, 04:16 PM
The saved are not held accountable for their sins in heaven. They are held accountable for their works.



Sins were paid for at the cross of Calvary with the blood of Jesus Christ.


Yes... Believers will judged on 'their' works... those things done in the flesh.. and will recieve rewards accordingly.. this will be at the Judgement or '(bema) Seat of Christ... This judgement is not the same as the GWT Judgement that is revealed in the Revelation of Jesus the Christ... here you find the damned..... big and small.. standing before Jesus the Christ to be judged according to those books that were opened... and those whose names are 'NOT' found in the Lambs Book of Life... from here they are placed in the Lake of Fire.. where the false prophet and anti christ are and the devil and his angels.

Born Again Believers are not included in this Final Judgement. The Final Judgement is the judement of the 'damned'.. not the 'Saved'..

Clydson
Jan 31st 2009, 07:04 PM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?
Greetings RZ.

Scripture states that the unrepentant will be condemned. The reason they are condemned is their transgressing the law of God and refusing to repent. It doesn't matter if one has obeyed the gospel or not, but rather if one has repented of their sins.

God's attitude toward man and his sin can be understood in several passages;

Ezek 18:24
24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
NKJV

Keeping this in mind, now hear the words of Jesus;

John 5:28-29
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
NKJV

This very same theme can be learned by the words of Jesus recorded in Matthew 25:31-46.

I disagree that one's salvation cannot be lost or discarded. I do, however, believe that it will not be God's fault or doing. It is man's choice to obey God or unrighteousness. God has given man warnings in advance for choosing to live outside His discipline.

God gives grace to the humble, and the humble only. Man is very capable of ceasing his humbleness to God, and becoming stubborn, which can eventually develop into a hardened heart, forcing God to give him up, Rom 1:18-25. It is man's choice.

Jake

Toymom
Jan 31st 2009, 11:35 PM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?
The way to salvation is not "just believing in Christ and trying to live like Him." It is repenting, believing and having Christ in us and living by Him and allowing Him to transform us into His image.

As commander said, we cannot lose our salvation, but there is a reward that we can lose or not gain. That is why we should live a life of pursuing Christ and giving ourselves to Him and following Him, not just us ourselves trying to imagine "what would Jesus do" and trying to act that way, but we need to ask Christ Himself "what should I do in this situation" and then allow Him to lead us.

MacGyver
Feb 1st 2009, 12:06 AM
Baptism washes away our sins of the past, but after Baptism we still have to deal with sin, and that is through penance confession 1John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Baptism and Confession both get their cleansing power from the Blood of Christ.

Now if we commit minor sins and do not repent we will still have those purged away after death as St. Paul indicates, 1Cor. 3:13 "each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." Sin cannot enter Heaven so we will have those stains of sin purged away so we can enter.

Yukerboy
Feb 1st 2009, 03:34 AM
Baptism washes away our sins of the past, but after Baptism we still have to deal with sin, and that is through penance confession 1John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Baptism and Confession both get their cleansing power from the Blood of Christ.

Now if we commit minor sins and do not repent we will still have those purged away after death as St. Paul indicates, 1Cor. 3:13 "each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." Sin cannot enter Heaven so we will have those stains of sin purged away so we can enter.

I find the usage of minor pretty interesting. Define minor sins?

Agreed that sin cannot enter heaven, which is why John tells us that those who are born again cannot (are unable to) sin.

MacGyver
Feb 1st 2009, 03:46 AM
I find the usage of minor pretty interesting. Define minor sins?

Agreed that sin cannot enter heaven, which is why John tells us that those who are born again cannot (are unable to) sin.
1John 5:16-17 There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

As John points out, there is sin that will send you to Hell and sin that won't. That would be minor sins. So are you saying that Christians cannot sin? 1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

chad
Feb 1st 2009, 06:41 AM
What I find interesting in Revelation 20:12,13,14 is where the dead come from?

1) vs 12: It says I saw the dead, small and great stand before God - and they were judged according to thier works.

2) vs 13: says the sea gave up the dead which were in it.

3) vs 13: says hell delivered up the dead that were in then - and they were judged according to thier works.

vs 13 hell is translated haides G86: Hades or the place of the departed souls. Grave-Hell.

I thought that all people who died - went to hades or paradise?

Who are the dead in the sea? and Who are the dead, small and great before God?

All, however are judged according to thier works.


***

(Rev 20:12 KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Rev 20:13 KJV) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

(Rev 20:14 KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

holyrokker
Feb 1st 2009, 07:00 AM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?

Salvation is not "just believing" and "trying to live like him."

Salvation is granted to all who have faith in Him.

Faith is not simply saying a pray.

Faith is a full committment of life and trust in the Only One who can give us hope.

Here's a brief definition of faith from Charles Finney http://www.bibleteacher.org/finney4c.htm

Yukerboy
Feb 1st 2009, 03:57 PM
1John 5:16-17 There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

As John points out, there is sin that will send you to Hell and sin that won't. That would be minor sins.

All sin send you to hell. There is one that is unforgivable and those that are not.


So are you saying that Christians cannot sin?

One who is born again cannot sin for God's seed remains in him. How could John say that and then say the following....for both must be true.


1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Because the sin that is in us (that is, the flesh) does the sin, not the spirit that has been born again, washed, and sanctified. We have sin. It abides in our flesh.

RZ06
Feb 1st 2009, 04:22 PM
I'm reading the replies and taking it in...Just watching the discussion.

But I did want to say that I know what it entails to be saved. It's just how I worded it as the focus of my question wasn't on that.

MacGyver
Feb 1st 2009, 06:52 PM
[quote]
All sin send you to hell. There is one that is unforgivable and those that are not.

The distinction that we need to make is this, the sin that sends you to Hell or not is distinct from whether they can be forgiven. Just because someone as myself believes that we can sin unto death does not mean that I don't believe that a mortal sin like that cannot be forgiven, because that is what St. John encourages by saying we need to confess our sins 1 John 1:9.

As for the unforgivable sin that you mention, I suspect you are taking about the blasphamy of the Holy Spirit. There are a number of likely ways that it has been understood. Such as...

1) literally to utter a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, such as to ascribe the fruits and actions of the Holy Ghost to the opposing unclean spirit.

2) is final impenitence when, namely, a man perseveres in mortal sin until death, that is it refers to sinners who do not wish to repent.

3) a sin committed against that good which is appropriated to the Holy Ghost:

4) to hate and revile God.

5) the sin whereby, for example, Simon Magus wished to buy the Holy Spirit of St. Peter.

6) is when a man denies that Christ is God.

I believe it is a combination of all these, especially of the first 2.



One who is born again cannot sin for God's seed remains in him. How could John say that and then say the following....for both must be true.



Because the sin that is in us (that is, the flesh) does the sin, not the spirit that has been born again, washed, and sanctified. We have sin. It abides in our flesh.


John here distinguishes between the supernatural action of Divine grace, and the exercise of moral virtues. Its like medicine that is so powerful that any one who takes it could not die of the plague. But a man refuses to take the medicine and then dies; so can he who has the grace of God refuse to use it, and thus fall into sin.

Kudo Shinichi
Feb 2nd 2009, 02:06 PM
If the way to salvation is just believing in Christ and trying to live like him, then how does God still hold us accountable for our sins on Judgement Day?

We can't lose salvation so therefore we will go to Heaven, but yet it states we will still be held accountable. How so?

We could be hold accountable to our acts, deeds and words use in our life which isn't fulfilling our Christian living...http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=3&version=31&context=chaptercould be hold accountable to our responsibility as Christians faith for not telling the good news to non-believers...http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=33&version=31&context=chapter

Yukerboy
Feb 2nd 2009, 02:13 PM
God gives grace one time for all time. He doesn't play "now you have it, now you don't."

Not one of the born again can fall into sin for God's seed remains in Him. John said the born again cannot sin. This means unable to, not ought not.

MacGyver
Feb 2nd 2009, 10:27 PM
God gives grace one time for all time. He doesn't play "now you have it, now you don't."

Not one of the born again can fall into sin for God's seed remains in Him. John said the born again cannot sin. This means unable to, not ought not.
We are starting to chase our tails. That passage is put into context when you read the rest of the epistle, when John tells us that if we say we do not sin we decieve ourselves....., or if we confess our sins...., etc etc.

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