Hey all!
I was reading some bible passages today (Corinthians mostly) and came across some passages referancing heaven. This got me to think deeply about what heaven would be like. Given that we all have different likes and dislikes (although we have faith and love for Jesus in common), how can heaven truly be heaven to everyone? In other words, if I find one activity amazingly fulfilling, but someone else does not enjoy that activity, wouldnt heaven be imperfect for one of us (or do we all have our owner personal heaven that is perfect from our perspective). Also, do we get one on one time with Jesus to study and ask questions we have always wondered? Also, if people continue to live christian lives and make it to heaven, will it get crowded or keep expanding?

When I think of heaven I don't much think how it will look though the Bible says it will be beautiful

I think of seeing people.... Mama, Daddy, Lacey,... Matthew,John, Peter, Stephen, Moses, Abraham, maybe I can sing a song with Paul and Silas.
( though I can't carry a tune here on earth.)
Above all an eternity to praise our God and look upon his face.

It will be amazing no matter what we are doing. Because all the bad stuff will be GONE!!!!

:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp

How about bad memories that we have from life in the flesh? Wont we be sad that we cant see friends and family that are still living. Wont we be sad if we see bad things happening to these living people that we cant help? What if they lose faith in Jesus and we cant help save them? Will we still have imperfections that bothered us in life?

I would recommend two books:

1. Heaven Is a Place On Earth by Michael Wittmer
2. Heaven by Randy Alcorn

In short, there are Scriptures that indicate that when heaven is established here on earth, it will be quite similar to what life is like now (only without sin). Think of the Garden of Eden, it is what God intended...it is the world restored. There are even verses that suggest we will still have commerce. Very interesting :)

I think that Heaven will be heaven to everyone because we won't care about all of our interests on this earth. We'll be with God for eternity, face to face. That's what makes it heaven.

Jesus said heaven is a place free from sadness, anger, hurt....it's a place of intense happiness and joy in Christ. We will be too busy glorifying Christ and getting to know Him even more. Likes and dislikes don't matter up there. Earthly things don't matter in heaven.

I absolutely believe that heaven will involve us doing things we enjoy. Remember God created us in His image. We are creative by design. I believe that we will do many of the same things we do here (like painting, music, gardening, games) and the only difference is that they will not be tainted by sin. If you think of the most beautiful things that humans create in this world that is full of sin, image how much more beautiful those would be in a perfect world. We aren't going to be disembodied spirits floating around singing hallelujah for all eternity. There is so much more to God's glory than that.

Hmmm I very much disagree. Heaven is heaven. Earthly things have no place in Heaven.

Hmmm I very much disagree. Heaven is heaven. Earthly things have no place in Heaven.

You do realize that heaven will be here on earth...right? What is your definition of "earthly things"? Do you have Scripture to show why you disagree? I can post some to support my views if you'd like...

(btw..your baby is really cute!)

Thanks. :D

I'll post some tomorrow. It's 10:30, time for me to get my butt to bed. Gotta work tomorrow.

And yes, if you don't mind, I would like to see scripture supporting your view. :) And like I said, I'll post some on mine tomorrow. My eyes are burning. lol!

Thanks. :D

I'll post some tomorrow. It's 10:30, time for me to get my butt to bed. Gotta work tomorrow.

And yes, if you don't mind, I would like to see scripture supporting your view. :) And like I said, I'll post some on mine tomorrow. My eyes are burning. lol!

There's some confusion here I think.

First, keep in mind that Jesus was still in the flesh when He ascended into Heaven. Thus, if you mean earthly things as in physical things, then I think we're hard pressed to explain how Jesus - in spirit and flesh - is in Heaven. ;)

Now, I think it's true that currently physicality - with the exception of Jesus - doesn't exist in Heaven. However, at some point Heaven and Earth shall pass away and there will be a new heaven and a new earth. What we know from Revelation, however, is that God is going to bring the two together - the spiritual and the physically will finally stop being at war with each other and act as they are supposed to.

God mentions that it's a city - this indicates that there is culture on the new earth, this physical earth. Furthermore, we'll be in physical bodies (this is what Paul teaches us that the resurrection teaches us) - what's the purpose of being in a physical body if there's no physicality in Heaven?

There's quite a bit more, but I'd say that *hope* knows more about this than I do. I'd also recommend you read the book Heaven is a Place on Earth by Michael Wittmer. You owe it to yourself before jumping to the conclusions you've jumped to.

In his book, Heaven Is a Place on Earth, Wittmer says that a good rule of thumb for trying to determine what make it through to our next life (heaven) is this:



Whatever properly belongs to creation will be restored
Whatever is a product of the fall will be removed


He says the only exceptions he is aware of (and keep in mind he is a professor of systemic theology) are: marriage, the serpent will remain under the curse, and Jesus will still bear the scars of the cross. To be quite honest, the subject of heaven is extremely interesting to me because I have close family members awaiting me there. So I often just daydream about it. I’ve also read and studied it to some extent because it brings me comfort. That being said, here’s some of the Scriptures I’ve found interesting:

”But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.’ – 2 Peter 3:10-13

Early translations, including the KJV, rendered these verses to mean that everything in the earth would completely burn up. But once the Greek manuscripts were found and studied by scholars, they discovered a better translation would be to say that “the earth and all of its works will be found. For instance, when gold and other precious metals are put through a fire, they are refined, not consumed. A few verses ahead of these we also see Peter comparing this “destruction” to that of the Great Flood. Well, we know that the flood didn’t annihilate everything, so why should we expect the fire to destroy everything?

In short, the main difference between this world and the next is morality. The fire that Peter speaks of will bring an ethical cleansing, not an ontological destruction. Also, as far as my comments about commerce, here’s what Isaiah says about heaven:

”Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations – their kings led in triumphal procession.” – Isaiah 60:11

“They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.” – Isaiah 65:21

According to Randy Alcorn (a professor in theology and biblical interpretation), the New Earth will have citizens that build, plant and eat just like human beings always have on earth. He says that like Adam and Eve, we will inherit a place that God has prepared for us and we’ll be free to build on it and develop it for God’s glory – only without the threat of sin and it’s consequences.

Another interesting verse is in Luke 16:4-9. Jesus tells his followers to “use worldly wealth to gain friends”, to use their earthly resources to make a difference in lives on earth “so that when [life on earth] is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.” Alcorn says that many people assume “eternal dwellings” is a general reference to heaven, but that would mean Jesus is saying we would enter heaven if we use our money wisely. Therefore, he believes we should take “eternal dwellings” literally; that these will indeed be our homes in heaven.

There are multiple verses that suggest we will recognize and remember one another in heaven also (including the ones above). This, by far, is the most exciting thing to study and read about for me. Knowing that my relationships with those I have loved here on earth will continue (in purity) once we get to heaven is one of the things that gives me great hope. Think about it, God created human beings for relationship. There is a great emphasis in Scripture as to how we should treat not only God, but each other here in this life. So why would that be eliminated in heaven? The way I see it, our holy relationships with one another bring glory and honor to God. Therefore, when we’re in heaven, part of our worship and honoring God will involve continuing in pure, holy, loving relationships with one another for eternity. Anyway, I’ve rambled long enough. But I hope that gives you a few things to think about! :)

Just to clarify *hope*'s post, that's not what Heaven currently is, but will be the new heaven/earth when all is said and done. Currently, Heaven, as I imagine it, is a place of rest, but where we are disembodied, thus incomplete as human beings. Those in Heaven are awaiting their glorified bodies.

All I know about Heaven (and I am reading the book "Heaven" from Randy Alcorn) is that I will be free from this body of pain and disability...... I will dance again..... and I'll be more than happy to spend eternity praising Daddy forever! :pp

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

Just to clarify *hope*'s post, that's not what Heaven currently is, but will be the new heaven/earth when all is said and done. Currently, Heaven, as I imagine it, is a place of rest, but where we are disembodied, thus incomplete as human beings. Those in Heaven are awaiting their glorified bodies.


If that is the case, how can the current heaven really be considered heaven? In other words, if our loved ones and every one else currently in heaven are waiting for the ultimate heaven on Earth, doesnt that mean they are longing for it- thus making heaven imperfect?
In the current heaven, are we able to see loved ones on Earth or do we need to wait for them to join us?
My next question may seem dumb but I have always had difficulty understanding the trinity- and this is expecially true in reguards to heaven. In heaven is there still a father, son and holy ghost, or one unified god? sorry if this is a dumb question but I just want to understand!
thanks

If that is the case, how can the current heaven really be considered heaven? In other words, if our loved ones and every one else currently in heaven are waiting for the ultimate heaven on Earth, doesnt that mean they are longing for it- thus making heaven imperfect?
In the current heaven, are we able to see loved ones on Earth or do we need to wait for them to join us?

Who said that the current Heaven is supposed to be perfect in the sense that it's complete? :)

It's not - it's incomplete. Though it is morally perfect, it is imperfect in the sense that it's incomplete.


My next question may seem dumb but I have always had difficulty understanding the trinity- and this is expecially true in reguards to heaven. In heaven is there still a father, son and holy ghost, or one unified god? sorry if this is a dumb question but I just want to understand!

That's actually a good question and not a dumb one at all.

As God is eternal and His essence unchangable, it means there has been Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in perfect union for all eternity, before Heaven or earth were created. Thus, when in the current Heaven and when on the new Earth, God will still be Trinitarian and in perfect union with Himself.

??Matthew 22:28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

No marriage, right? Did I misunderstand?:hmm:

??Matthew 22:28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

No marriage, right? Did I misunderstand?:hmm:

But no body has contested that...

??Matthew 22:28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

No marriage, right? Did I misunderstand?:hmm:

Huh? I'm confused by what you're asking....

It simply mean: "marriage" is not part of the heavenly life.:kiss:

aliveinchrist...were you going to post those verses still?

Hey all!
I was reading some bible passages today (Corinthians mostly) and came across some passages referancing heaven. This got me to think deeply about what heaven would be like. Given that we all have different likes and dislikes (although we have faith and love for Jesus in common), how can heaven truly be heaven to everyone? In other words, if I find one activity amazingly fulfilling, but someone else does not enjoy that activity, wouldnt heaven be imperfect for one of us (or do we all have our owner personal heaven that is perfect from our perspective). Also, do we get one on one time with Jesus to study and ask questions we have always wondered? Also, if people continue to live christian lives and make it to heaven, will it get crowded or keep expanding?

If you remove allegorical passages, it is actually astonishing how little is written about heaven. Imo we really have no clue about heaven and cannot possible comprehend it.

I think science points to part of the reason: currently String Theory is the most favored unified theory of physics. If it turns out to be true, then our universe is at least ten dimensions. A four dimensional cannot comprehed in the slightests a ten plus dimensional world...

If you remove allegorical passages, it is actually astonishing how little is written about heaven. Imo we really have no clue about heaven and cannot possible comprehend it.

I think science points to part of the reason: currently String Theory is the most favored unified theory of physics. If it turns out to be true, then our universe is at least ten dimensions. A four dimensional cannot comprehed in the slightests a ten plus dimensional world...


First, what allegorical passages? Second, why would you remove them? Third, what in the world does String Theory have to do with Heaven? Fourth, why are you using naturalistic explanations to explain supernaturalism?

First, what allegorical passages? Second, why would you remove them? Third, what in the world does String Theory have to do with Heaven? Fourth, why are you using naturalistic explanations to explain supernaturalism?

Most highly metaphorical, allegorical passages are inappropriate to use with non-believers which is mostly what this forum is about. The fact that heaven is "paved with streets of gold" is inspiring and poetic for us but isn't going to persuage anyone of anything.

String theory, however, will get their attention immediately and could be one - and only one mind you of many - explanations as to why so little specific is written about heaven (and hell for that matter).

This is EXTREMELY important imo when talking to non-believers. We as Christians often assume we know much more about heaven and hell than we do. This has caused many problems...

Most highly metaphorical, allegorical passages are inappropriate to use with non-believers which is mostly what this forum is about. The fact that heaven is "paved with streets of gold" is inspiring and poetic for us but isn't going to persuage anyone of anything.

Well I'm glad you know the intention of the forum after 11 posts!

Convincing or not, the purpose of apologetics isn't always to persuade. Most of the time it is to explain.


String theory, however, will get their attention immediately and could be one - and only one mind you of many - explanations as to why so little specific is written about heaven (and hell for that matter).

This is EXTREMELY important imo when talking to non-believers. We as Christians often assume we know much more about heaven and hell than we do. This has caused many problems...

I fail to see the relevance of string-theory. Again, you're attempting to use a physical aspect of the universe to explain a non-physical aspect of creation in general. It might "work," but it's not true. Truth is far more important when talking to non-believers.