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embankmentlb
Apr 7th 2009, 07:50 PM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

Kahtar
Apr 7th 2009, 07:51 PM
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

embankmentlb
Apr 7th 2009, 07:57 PM
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

So do i assume that it is directed toward the Apostles only sense that was who Jesus was speeking?

Kahtar
Apr 7th 2009, 08:51 PM
Jesus was certainly speaking to his diciples. But then He later tells them to teach all nations everything He has taught them. 'Everything' I think would include the great commission.
And, if we were not going into all the world preaching the gospel, how would YOU have heard it?

tt1106
Apr 7th 2009, 09:43 PM
Paul was not one of the 12 apostles? Do you think Christ meant him?
One of the things he commanded them to do was go and make disciples of all nations. The disciples in turn would be called to reveal the truth to others and command them to go and teach others. Christ tells them that he is giving them all auhtority. The power to cast out demons and the power to heal, as well as the power to forgive sins. Would they not be empowered then to command others to go and make disciples of all nations?

Paul also mentions other disciples teaching people and bringing people to Christ. If this is not what God had intended, why is it in the Bible?

revrobor
Apr 7th 2009, 09:44 PM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

Using that logic then you would have to assume that whatever Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John wrote was directed only to the people they were addressing at the moment.

*Hope*
Apr 7th 2009, 10:25 PM
Hmm, this is really bizarre. Did some big name televangelist recently preach on the great commission or something? Because this is like the third topic I've seen recently that is trying to dispute it (in one way or another). Why is this coming up so much all of a sudden?

billy-brown 2
Apr 7th 2009, 10:28 PM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

No.

In the assumption that the Great Commission is represented in the scriptures given by Kahtar in post #2 (and in the parallel passages of the Gospels), we have the following additional scripture passage of the Holy Bible:

2 Tim 4:1-5
1 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/4-1.htm) I (the Apostle Paul) solemnly charge you (his son in the faith Timothy) in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/4-2.htm) preach the word (the Greek here is logos--the message of the Gospel); be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/4-3.htm) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/4-4.htm) and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/4-5.htm) But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

I hope the other saints can add more to this . . .

embankmentlb
Apr 7th 2009, 10:34 PM
Using that logic then you would have to assume that whatever Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John wrote was directed only to the people they were addressing at the moment.

I am just asking a question. I do not have the scriptural answer.

Was Jesus only speaking to the 12? Or. Was Jesus speaking to every Christian?

Churches preach that it's every Christians job to spread the Gospel. Are there people who have not heard the Gospel? Are there people without access to a Bible?

Is there scripture that says it is our job to witness to those who do not believe?

apothanein kerdos
Apr 7th 2009, 10:50 PM
Is John 3:16 directed to Nicodemus or to everyone?

SIG
Apr 7th 2009, 11:19 PM
All of Scripture is directed to everyone.

This is obviously not true in certain specifics ("You have had five husbands..."), but is clearly true in spiritual principles ("Go and sin no more...").

God has given us enough smarts--not to mention His Spirit--to distinguish between the two.

tgallison
Apr 7th 2009, 11:32 PM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

It was not only directed to them, but they also completed it. It was 11 actually.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Romans 10:17-18)

That said, it does not detract from the fact that we are to be a light to the world. That light needs to be in our home first, our neighbor second. And then the question becomes who is our neighbor?

Terrell

apothanein kerdos
Apr 7th 2009, 11:34 PM
It was not only directed to them, but they also completed it. It was 11 actually.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Romans 10:17-18)

That said, it does not detract from the fact that we are to be a light to the world. That light needs to be in our home first, our neighbor second. And then the question becomes who is our neighbor?

Terrell


Wow. So when did one of the 11 speak to the Aztecs?

Tomlane
Apr 7th 2009, 11:46 PM
Seems like everyone conveniently leaves out the rest of the commission. In my way of thinking if something is left out that pertains to what people have coined the great commission should and is not dealt with then the whole thing is taken out of context. Mark chapter 16 needs to be taken into consideration as proof if this is completed or is being done today.

Mark 16:15 *And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 *He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 *And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 *They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 *¶So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 *And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

I hope I havn't rained on anyone's parade.

Tomlane

revrobor
Apr 7th 2009, 11:47 PM
All of Scripture is directed to everyone..

God's laws and Jesus' commands are directed at His followers and not the unrepentant.

tgallison
Apr 7th 2009, 11:57 PM
Wow. So when did one of the 11 speak to the Aztecs?

Your argument is with the Bible, not with me.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 8th 2009, 12:12 AM
Your argument is with the Bible, not with me.
I guess the Bible is wrong then!

tt1106
Apr 8th 2009, 01:55 AM
I was certain there were 12. How could I have missed that?

billy-brown 2
Apr 8th 2009, 01:59 AM
It was not only directed to them, but they also completed it. It was 11 actually.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Romans 10:17-18)

That said, it does not detract from the fact that we are to be a light to the world. That light needs to be in our home first, our neighbor second. And then the question becomes who is our neighbor?

Terrell


Let's see . . .

A)
The scriptures below conclude the book of Revelation:

Rev. 22:10-21
10 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-10.htm) And he (Jesus) said to me (John), “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
11 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-11.htm) “Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”
12 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-12.htm) “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
13 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-13.htm) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
14 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-14.htm) Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
15 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-15.htm) Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
16 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-16.htm) “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
17 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-17.htm) The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
18 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-18.htm) I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-19.htm) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
20 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-20.htm) He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 (http://bible.cc/revelation/22-21.htm) The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

Of course, this passage was written originally to 7 churches in Asia:

Rev. 1:9-11
9 (http://bible.cc/revelation/1-9.htm) I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10 (http://bible.cc/revelation/1-10.htm) I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
11 (http://bible.cc/revelation/1-11.htm) saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

Now, we know that Epaphras was responsible for much ministry at Laodicea:

Col 4:12-13 (the Apostle Paul is writing):
12 (http://bible.cc/colossians/4-12.htm) Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.
13 (http://bible.cc/colossians/4-13.htm) For I testify for him that he has a deep concern for you and for those who are in Laodicea and Hierapolis.

Now, I suspect that there were other "gospel ministers" who involved themselves in the "great commission" to establish the other 6 churches in Asia.

Who were they?

(I don't know, but if the 11 original Apostles were not involved, then the "great commission" could not have been"completed" by them in their lifetime.)

B)
Apropos Romans 10:17-18 . . .

Of course, Paul does an amazing thing here: he references Psalm 19:4 in Romans 10:18:

Psalm 19:1-6 (the context)
1 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-1.htm) The heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-2.htm) Day to day pours forth speech,
And night to night reveals knowledge.
3 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-3.htm) There is no speech, nor are there words;
Their voice is not heard.
4 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-4.htm) Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their utterances to the end of the world.
In them He has placed a tent for the sun,
5 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-5.htm) Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber;
It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6 (http://bible.cc/psalms/19-6.htm) Its rising is from one end of the heavens,
And its circuit to the other end of them;
And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

and indicates that "his brethren according to the flesh" has heard the Gospel, but rejected it (through unbelief and stumbling at Jesus).

Indeed, this can not be the same as the 11 Apostles proclaiming it, because this proclamation is done by nature itself-- and not the original Apostles at all.

C)
At any rate, the Apostle Peter has indicated the following:

2 Pet. 3:1-9
1 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-1.htm) This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
2 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-2.htm) that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
3 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-3.htm) Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-4.htm) and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”
5 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-5.htm) For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-6.htm) through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
7 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-7.htm) But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-8.htm) But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-9.htm) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

It seems to be impossible that Peter would not have known something (somehow) about the following:

Luke 20:27-40
27 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-27.htm) Now there came to Him (Jesus) some of the Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection),
28 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-28.htm) and they questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, Moses wrote for us that IF A MAN’S BROTHER DIES, having a wife, AND HE IS CHILDLESS, HIS BROTHER SHOULD MARRY THE WIFE AND RAISE UP CHILDREN TO HIS BROTHER.
29 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-29.htm) “Now there were seven brothers; and the first took a wife and died childless;
30 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-30.htm) and the second
31 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-31.htm) and the third married her; and in the same way all seven died, leaving no children.
32 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-32.htm) “Finally the woman died also.
33 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-33.htm) “In the resurrection therefore, which one’s wife will she be? For all seven had married her.”
34 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-34.htm) Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
35 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-35.htm) but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
36 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-36.htm) for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
37 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-37.htm) “But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB.
38 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-38.htm) “Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him.”
39 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-39.htm) Some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.”
40 (http://bible.cc/luke/20-40.htm) For they did not have courage to question Him any longer about anything.

So, all the people "who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead" attain that worthiness through believing the Gospel preached through those who are involved in the "great commission."

I am sure that YHWH wants everybody to be "in the ark of salvation" through the Gospel--and this is one of the reasons that this age has lasted so long (what longsuffering by YHWH . . . :pp ).

Now, if the "great commission" has been completed already by the 11 original Apostles (or anyone else), then should there be any marriage occurring in this age? Would there have been any need to have this age to last as long as it has? We could go immediately into "that age" and experience great things--as "sons of the resurrection" (I suppose).

(All the newspapers indicate that many marriages are occurring daily in 2009 . . .)

D)
In conclusion, I don't imagine that the "great commission" will ever conclude in this age--until all mankind gets an opportunity to receive or reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

Any other configuration would make YHWH unjust.

:)

THOM
Apr 8th 2009, 03:05 AM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

Did you miss out on, "After that HE was seen by over five hundred brethren at once...(1Cor. 15:6)"?

And since we currently live in "the age", that has not yet come to an "end", that makes is applicable to us as well, don't you think so?

embankmentlb
Apr 8th 2009, 05:40 AM
Did you miss out on, "After that HE was seen by over five hundred brethren at once...(1Cor. 15:6)"?

And since we currently live in "the age", that has not yet come to an "end", that makes is applicable to us as well, don't you think so?

Yes, this makes sense. Their will always be new people on the earth who have not had the opportunity yet to know God. This age will only end at the time God chooses.
The thing I am trying to work through in my mind is, What is expected of us as Christians? Is our life in Jesus, presenting our bodies clothed in Jesus, the way we are to spread his word? In other words by example.
Or, are we to physically minister to those without Jesus as an evangelist?

apothanein kerdos
Apr 8th 2009, 05:47 AM
Yes, this makes sense. Their will always be new people on the earth who have not had the opportunity yet to know God. This age will only end at the time God chooses.
The thing I am trying to work through in my mind is, What is expected of us as Christians? Is our life in Jesus, presenting our bodies clothed in Jesus, the way we are to spread his word? In other words by example.
Or, are we to physically minister to those without Jesus as an evangelist?
Both.

15 characters

SIG
Apr 8th 2009, 07:26 AM
God's laws and Jesus' commands are directed at His followers and not the unrepentant.

These laws and commands are for all; only the saved are capable of even beginning to keep them.

revrobor
Apr 8th 2009, 09:09 AM
These laws and commands are for all; only the saved are capable of even beginning to keep them.

God gave the Ten Commandments to His people. Jesus gave the Great Commission to His followers. The commandment regarding communion was given to His followers, etc. The only Scripture directed to the unrepentant are those calling for them to repent.

THOM
Apr 8th 2009, 10:13 AM
Yes, this makes sense. Their will always be new people on the earth who have not had the opportunity yet to know God. This age will only end at the time God chooses.
The thing I am trying to work through in my mind is, What is expected of us as Christians? Is our life in Jesus, presenting our bodies clothed in Jesus, the way we are to spread his word? In other words by example.
Or, are we to physically minister to those without Jesus as an evangelist?

I'm very glad you think so;). Now then, to answer your questions, try here:


{JESUS' Command: "Make Disciples" or make "Christians"??? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=164019)}

(Posts #'s 1, 20, 23, 46)

Firstfruits
Apr 8th 2009, 11:21 AM
The Great Commission. Is that directed to the 12 Apostles only? Scriptures Please.

With the understanding that whatever the Disciples were commanded to do those that received their teaching are therefore aslo commanded to do likewise and so on and so forth.

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

tgallison
Apr 8th 2009, 01:47 PM
God gave the Ten Commandments to His people. Jesus gave the Great Commission to His followers. The commandment regarding communion was given to His followers, etc. The only Scripture directed to the unrepentant are those calling for them to repent.

Jesus said, He came but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. During Jesus's earthly ministry their were no Gentiles involved. The followers were all Jewish, or Jewish proselytes. All those at Pentecost were Jews or Jewish proselytes. All those of the first church were all Jews or Jewish proselytes.

That none of the eleven understood Jesus to say, go to the Gentiles, is made clear by the fact that it was almost twelve years later that God revealed it to Peter. Up until that time it was unlawful for a Jew, as far as the apostles understood, to have anything to do with a Gentile.

When Jesus sent the apostles forth the first time, there was 12 of them, and at this time he told them not to go to the Gentiles. (Matthew 10:5-6)

Jesus later makes the statement in Matthew 15:24 that He was sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Matthew 28, when Jesus sends the eleven out, nothing has changed, at least as far as they understood, but to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy promised to the children of Jacob.

The prophecy in Joel 2:28 is what Jesus is referring to in Mark 16:16-18 when he sends the 11 out.

12 years later we see the dispensation of the time of Jews (To the Jew first) coming to an end, the 69th week, and God turning to the Gentiles.(And also to the Greek)

Terrell

embankmentlb
Apr 8th 2009, 04:59 PM
Jesus said, He came but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. During Jesus's earthly ministry their were no Gentiles involved. The followers were all Jewish, or Jewish proselytes. All those at Pentecost were Jews or Jewish proselytes. All those of the first church were all Jews or Jewish proselytes.

That none of the eleven understood Jesus to say, go to the Gentiles, is made clear by the fact that it was almost twelve years later that God revealed it to Peter. Up until that time it was unlawful for a Jew, as far as the apostles understood, to have anything to do with a Gentile.

When Jesus sent the apostles forth the first time, there was 12 of them, and at this time he told them not to go to the Gentiles. (Matthew 10:5-6)

Jesus later makes the statement in Matthew 15:24 that He was sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Matthew 28, when Jesus sends the eleven out, nothing has changed, at least as far as they understood, but to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus came to fulfill the prophecy promised to the children of Jacob.

The prophecy in Joel 2:28 is what Jesus is referring to in Mark 16:16-18 when he sends the 11 out.

12 years later we see the dispensation of the time of Jews (To the Jew first) coming to an end, the 69th week, and God turning to the Gentiles.(And also to the Greek)

Terrell
Very good points Terrell!
The Jew of all Jew's, Law keeper of law keepers, Paul, was sent to minister to the gentiles.
Peter, a fisherman, a person who was not the brightest, was sent to Jerusalem to convert the most educated of all Jews. God works in mysterious ways.

SIG
Apr 9th 2009, 10:16 PM
God gave the Ten Commandments to His people. Jesus gave the Great Commission to His followers. The commandment regarding communion was given to His followers, etc. The only Scripture directed to the unrepentant are those calling for them to repent.

Yes, in the very narrowest sense.

Yet throughout the centuries, countless verses have pierced the hearts of the unrepentant--including myself. ALL Scripture is directed to ALL people, repentant and unrepentant alike.

As I said above, the specifics are read in context, but the Spirit is for all.

revrobor
Apr 9th 2009, 10:52 PM
Yes, in the very narrowest sense.

Yet throughout the centuries, countless verses have pierced the hearts of the unrepentant--including myself. ALL Scripture is directed to ALL people, repentant and unrepentant alike.

As I said above, the specifics are read in context, but the Spirit is for all.

That's a matter of opinion and I'm not interested in being a "right-fighter". I understand perfectly what God is telling me. While God can use any verse for any purpose the truth is still the truth. Blessings.

dan p
Apr 9th 2009, 11:22 PM
Hi Terral , has it right on and the Commision given to the Body of Christ is found in 2 Cor 5:18-20 , where we are Ambassadors for Christ .

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