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elicohen
Apr 7th 2009, 09:47 PM
Newly 'converted' Christian Constantine the Great said this in 325 CE regarding Christians who celebrated Easter around the Jewish Passover:

'Because the detestable Jews killed Christ, we Christians must have nothing in common with the detestable Jews.'
[Any search engine will confirm]

WOW!

Guess that means we throw out our Jewish salvation [John 4:22] and our Jewish Jesus too [Matthew 9:20]!

Just something to think about this holiday season...

Emanate
Apr 7th 2009, 09:49 PM
Newly 'converted' Christian Constantine the Great said this in 325 CE regarding Christians who celebrated Easter around the Jewish Passover:

'Because the detestable Jews killed Christ, we Christians must have nothing in common with the detestable Jews.'
[Any search engine will confirm]

WOW!

Guess that means we throw out our Jewish salvation [John 4:22] and our Jewish Jesus too [Matthew 9:20]!

Just something to think about this holiday season...


ah, let the debate begin. I was wondering how close we would get.

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 09:55 PM
ah, let the debate begin. I was wondering how close we would get.

There will be no debating. Our rules are clear

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 09:57 PM
Newly 'converted' Christian Constantine the Great said this in 325 CE regarding Christians who celebrated Easter around the Jewish Passover:

'Because the detestable Jews killed Christ, we Christians must have nothing in common with the detestable Jews.'
[Any search engine will confirm]

WOW!

Guess that means we throw out our Jewish salvation [John 4:22] and our Jewish Jesus too [Matthew 9:20]!

Just something to think about this holiday season...

Who cares what he (Constantine) said. Do you hear this being preached today from pulpits anywhere?

And correction. Our salvation is not Jewish.

Walstib
Apr 7th 2009, 10:05 PM
You are welcome to make that conclusion, but I don't see what some random guy said hundreds of years ago would merit us throwing out Christ.

Is the point to discuss this Constantine guy?

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:08 PM
Who cares what he (Constantine) said. Do you hear this being preached today from pulpits anywhere?

And correction. Our salvation is not Jewish.



Joh 4:22
(22) "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:09 PM
You are welcome to make that conclusion, but I don't see it as what some random guy said hundreds of years ago would merit us throwing out Christ.

Is the point to discuss this Constantine guy?

Aren't you interested in Christian roots, even if we have been through reformation? No one's perfect. That kind of bold anti-semitism is long over, however not completely erased..... But alas...Easter falls during the week God ordained passover. Kinda cool to see that once in a while.

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:13 PM
Aren't you interested in Christian roots, even if we have been through reformation? No one's perfect.

Sure we are but the tone of the post does nothing to show how far we have come.

Emanate
Apr 7th 2009, 10:15 PM
Who cares what he (Constantine) said.


Perhaps we should since most of Christian doctrine was codified under him.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:15 PM
Sure we are but the tone of the post does nothing to show how far we have come.

amazzin', why are you being so abusive? What I posted is genuine and earnest. If you disagree with my post, please say so, but please stop judging me.

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:17 PM
amazzin', why are you being so abusive? What I posted is genuine and earnest. If you disagree with my post, please say so, but please stop judging me.

Keck
I wasn't disagreeing with you. I said I am all for our roots but that the original post (not your post) didn't do anything to foster a civil discussion on our history.

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:18 PM
Perhaps we should since most of Christian doctrine was codified under him.

I can see why you would say that but with discovery of ancient manuscripts we are able to come to conclusions that have no influence from Constantine

Walstib
Apr 7th 2009, 10:19 PM
Keck, I actually have little interest in the hundreds of people through time who have called themselves Christians. Not my bag though some like the history part of things. All good for them as long as they don't start giving any man they read about the authority reserved for scripture itself. This Constantine guy is not my authority.

I have the privilege of being able to read the bible for myself and discuss it with other people personally. While stories about wolves from the past may be interesting, they don't justify calling Christians anti-semitic.

Peace,
Joe

Emanate
Apr 7th 2009, 10:21 PM
I can see why you would say that but with discovery of ancient manuscripts we are able to come to conclusions that have no influence from Constantine


I suppose doctrine was a poor choice of words. I should have said 'practice'.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:23 PM
May God bless you all and keep everyone safe this weekend.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 7th 2009, 10:28 PM
Constantine, like many 'Christians' at his time, hated Jews.

And...?

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:29 PM
the OP is about the orgins of easter. We are discussing a man made tradition and the cause and effect.

What was it that someone said..."If we don't study history, we are bound to repeat it..."

Anyway what does easter have to do with the Bible? It's not in there.

No matter, I will leave this thread too.

Maybe the "word" Easter is not in there but the death and resurrection is. The word Easter is only a word describing an event that has been translated from Aramaic Pasch.

Certainly, you are not denying the death and resurrection of Christ?

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:30 PM
Constantine, like many 'Christians' at his time, hated Jews.

And...?

Exactly and I can name a few messianic jewish sects who hate Christans because we do not use the word Yeshua which they ascribe as sacred.

So what?

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:30 PM
Certainly, you are not denying the death and resurrection of Christ?

Since I personally know Jesus and have a relationship with Him, I can testify that He is the Eternal One and lives, and furthermore has given me life beyone measure.

God bless you.

amazzin
Apr 7th 2009, 10:31 PM
Since I personally know Jesus and have a relationship with Him, I can testify that He lives.

God bless you.

Amen!
Then do tell why you said that in your post? What did I miss?

Walstib
Apr 7th 2009, 10:31 PM
I suppose doctrine was a poor choice of words. I should have said 'practice'.

I just don't understand bro,

At service the other day we were waving Palm fronds in the pews every time the word hosanna was said and talking about the triumphant entry of our King into Jerusalem.

What part of our practice of celebrating the coming passover and sacrifice of our Lord according to prophecy have to do with Constantine or hating the Jews?

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:40 PM
Amen!
Then do tell why you said that in your post? What did I miss?

easter is achronistic (like President's day). I respect God's timing more than man's. I'm not denouncning easter, I'm merely recognizing it for what it is - a tradition. Nothing wrong with traditions and day-keeping as long as they don't replace the intent of God (like the Pharisees did). I don't think believers nullify the intent of God with this tradition.

I love God the way He showed me in His word to love Him. It doesn't make me better or more righteous, it's just how I love Him.

embankmentlb
Apr 7th 2009, 10:41 PM
It reminds me of how Christians today hate Muslims.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:43 PM
It reminds me of how Christians today hate Muslims.

Whoever hates anyone hates what God made with His hands.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 7th 2009, 10:44 PM
Is this what it's about? Easter vs. Passover? Oh bother...

As a messianic Jew (and not one of those Gentiles who's uncle's cousin's best friend's roomate is a Jew - I'm actually Hebrew and still have practicing Jews in my family), I do wish that Christianity would do more to reclaim its Hebrew heritage.

Edith Schaeffer wrote an excellent book called Christianity is Jewish. Essentially, sometimes we tend to forget the Hebrew roots, which causes us to lose the richness and meaning of our faith.

Take Passover. A great celebration, but when put in the context of Christ it means so much more.

HOWEVER, Christianity is about liberty! We no longer have to practice Passover. If an Easter celebration is how someone chooses to recognize that our Lord is risen, then who cares? We have liberty in Christ. What matters is that we've accepted the risen Lord, not what day or manner we celebrate His resurrection.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 10:48 PM
Fair enough. My Jewish wife chooses to excersize her God-given liberty according to God's timing, and I really look forward to it. Though being Jewish doesn't give her any more authority than my second cousin's ex wife's adopted Irish son Vinney.

SIG
Apr 7th 2009, 11:27 PM
And don't even get me started on Martin Luther's eventual hatred of the Jews...

All that notwithstanding, I propose that right Spirit produces right practice.

keck553
Apr 7th 2009, 11:37 PM
And don't even get me started on Martin Luther's eventual hatred of the Jews...

All that notwithstanding, I propose that right Spirit produces right practice.

Most people are a product of their upbringing. It takes God our lifetime to shed all of those scales, and that's assuming we allow it.

What I am saying is perhaps we should all back off the judgements a little and leave some room for God to do His work. Of course I'm the first one who needs to heed that advice.....

Johnboy
Apr 9th 2009, 07:10 AM
HOWEVER, Christianity is about liberty! We no longer have to practice Passover. If an Easter celebration is how someone chooses to recognize that our Lord is risen, then who cares? We have liberty in Christ. What matters is that we've accepted the risen Lord, not what day or manner we celebrate His resurrection.
I would disagree with this statement it's fine to say that we can worship how we want, but to say it doesn't matter how we celebrate Christ's celebration is kind of unscriptural because I would really like you to show me that God would be happy with pagan symbols being used to remember his son's death and ressurection. Easter acknowledges Christ then rubs paganism in his face.

Tomlane
Apr 9th 2009, 12:17 PM
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:8

Like Keck stated, Easter is not found in the bible and comes from man's philosophies and anyone can read the history of it and see that it is not from God.

Colossians 2:16 *śLet no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Galatians 4:10 *Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 *I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

It all comes down to Christ wants us to walk in His reality of having risen from the dead and walk in the newness of life and not man's holy days and traditions.

All holy days that God instituted at one time have been nailed to the cross Col. 2:14. God wants us to demonstrate Christ in us with our new nature and walk so we show forth the fruits of the spirit as found in Gal. 5.

Our faith comes not from man's traditions but from the word of God and God's word should be our faith.

Romans 10:17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If a religious practice is not found in scripture, God says its sin.

Romans 14:23 *And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Tomlane

Teke
Apr 9th 2009, 02:02 PM
Of course this type thread had to come up in due season. :rolleyes:

The OP needs to check their history. The American Easter is a national holiday, not a Jewish or Christian holy day. In brief, when the south and north of the USA was divided, the south wanted Easter as a national holiday, and the north wanted Thanksgiving. Hence our country has celebrated both as national holidays.

It is an error to connect political government with spiritual truths.


Joh 4:22
(22) "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Read the verses following that one Keck. Jesus clearly teaches, in this case Samarians and Jews, that worship is not tied to any geographic local. Instead He turns to the heart of the matter, the object of worship.

"The commonwealth of Israel was the school of the knowledge of God for all the nations." St Athanasius

The Messiah was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the Jewish people.
God's universal gift of salvation arises within the context of His promises to the Jews and their religious tradition.

Teke
Apr 9th 2009, 02:10 PM
I would disagree with this statement it's fine to say that we can worship how we want, but to say it doesn't matter how we celebrate Christ's celebration is kind of unscriptural because I would really like you to show me that God would be happy with pagan symbols being used to remember his son's death and ressurection. Easter acknowledges Christ then rubs paganism in his face.

Jesus and the holy Apostles converted pagans, not cultures.
I disagree that it doesn't matter how we worship. Worship is a celebration of Christ. I see no difference.

Walstib
Apr 9th 2009, 02:20 PM
As far as I can tell this thread is about Constantine calling Jews detestable and what this means to us today. The OP has not joined in for discussion yet.

Lets try and keep a focus on here and not get into a general disagreements on how or on what date one remembers the sacrifice and resurrection of our Savior. This does not need to turn into an "us vs them" thing.

-------------------------------------


I would disagree with this statement it's fine to say that we can worship how we want, but to say it doesn't matter how we celebrate Christ's celebration is kind of unscriptural because I would really like you to show me that God would be happy with pagan symbols being used to remember his son's death and ressurection. Easter acknowledges Christ then rubs paganism in his face.

I hear what you are saying but it seems over the top to me. Before I knew this word had roots in paganism would I have still been rubbing things in Jesus' face or is it only after one finds out? Either way it is not the word itself that has any power. Consider.. This passage to me suggests that the stronger conscience is not bothered by such things knowing there is but one God.



Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.(1Co 8:4-7 NASB)




"What profit is the idol when its maker has carved it, Or an image, a teacher of falsehood? For its maker trusts in his own handiwork When he fashions speechless idols. "Woe to him who says to a piece of wood, 'Awake!' To a mute stone, 'Arise!' And that is your teacher? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, And there is no breath at all inside it. "But the LORD is in His holy temple. Let all the earth be silent before Him."(Hab 2:18-20 NASB)


So how do we tie this into the OP...

If this Constantine guy had also said people should worship at an idol, as some kings in the Hebrews past themselves did, do we decide to do this because he said so? Does that make the idol he promotes anything more than an earthly trinket?

No is the answer to both I think. Just because he hated Jews does not mean the earthly church hates Jews the same as just because some king in the Hebrews past worshiped idols does not make all Jews idol worshipers. Constantine was not even on the same level of authority as a king of of Israel.

In peace,
Joe

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 02:59 PM
Teke, God's house of prayer has always been for everyone.

Teke
Apr 9th 2009, 03:12 PM
Yes Walstib, back to the OP. :spin:

I don't believe Constantine said this. He allowed religious freedom for all, Jew, Christian and pagans. The OP has provided no actual reference for the claim made.


Newly 'converted' Christian Constantine the Great said this in 325 CE regarding Christians who celebrated Easter around the Jewish Passover:

'Because the detestable Jews killed Christ, we Christians must have nothing in common with the detestable Jews.'
[Any search engine will confirm]

WOW!

Guess that means we throw out our Jewish salvation [John 4:22] and our Jewish Jesus too [Matthew 9:20]!

Just something to think about this holiday season...

Tomlane
Apr 9th 2009, 03:40 PM
Keck stated:
Teke, God's house of prayer has always been for everyone.

Keck, where do you find that in the bible that there is such a thing as house of prayer for believers in this present dispensation?

Thank, Tomlane

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 04:56 PM
Keck stated:

Keck, where do you find that in the bible that there is such a thing as house of prayer for believers in this present dispensation?

I'm not a dispensationalist, but I don't need to be to support my statement.

(Isa 56:7) Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."

(Mar 11:17) And He began to teach and say to them, "Is it not written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS'? But you have made it a ROBBERS' DEN."

Tomlane
Apr 9th 2009, 06:35 PM
Keck, those two verse you gave were referring to the temple. The temple was torn down.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pet 3:15

Keck, you stated:
I'm not a dispensationalist, but I don't need to be to support my statement

I'm curious why you are not interested in proving yourself. I thought that was part of being a Christian and what does being a dispensationalist have to do with it? LOL you have me very curious as your answer seems so out of character for you.

Just for your information Paul used the word dispensation 4 times

1 Corinthians 9:17 *For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 *That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 *If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 *Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

I'm just curious if you believe that saved sinners are the building blocks of God's spiritual house as described in 1 Peter 2:5?

1 Peter 2:5 *Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ

Be blessed Keck,

Tomlane :D

Walstib
Apr 9th 2009, 06:38 PM
Start a new thread if you want guys but last one that far off topic here please.

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 06:51 PM
Tom, this would be a fun topic to discuss and discover. If start a new thread, I'll join in, but please be patient as my time is somewhat limited today.

Thanks and God bless!!

Tomlane
Apr 9th 2009, 07:02 PM
Keck, sounds real good and I won't start it until tomorrow. I will need a suggestion for you to suggest on just the subject will be so I can be focused and not bring in side issues. Thanks

Be blessed as I do believe you are a dear child of God.

Tomlane

Johnboy
Apr 9th 2009, 08:20 PM
I hear what you are saying but it seems over the top to me. Before I knew this word had roots in paganism would I have still been rubbing things in Jesus' face or is it only after one finds out? Either way it is not the word itself that has any power. Consider.. This passage to me suggests that the stronger conscience is not bothered by such things knowing there is but one God.


When Paul talks about eating meats offered to idols which is where I suspect you are loosely refering to he was talking about celebrations started by pagans in the pagan not pagan symbols in christian celebrations Paul would have told us to get rid of it.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 9th 2009, 08:27 PM
I would disagree with this statement it's fine to say that we can worship how we want, but to say it doesn't matter how we celebrate Christ's celebration is kind of unscriptural because I would really like you to show me that God would be happy with pagan symbols being used to remember his son's death and ressurection. Easter acknowledges Christ then rubs paganism in his face.


How is Easter pagan? The idea of baptizing is pagan as well - are you against it too?

Is God so weak that He can't sanctify a practice and make it His own? If He can't sanctify pagan practices and make them His own, I'm not sure He's even worthy of worship.

Am I going to Hell for practicing Easter? Does it lessen my understanding of Christ? Does it affect how I walk with Him? What doctrine does it change? Does it affect how I deal with other people?

If it doesn't do anything with the above, then it seems to me you're best keeping your opinion to yourself because your opinion doesn't really matter in the broad scheme of things. :)

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 08:50 PM
Easter's just a man made religious tradition. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it....well man made. What it really boils down to is easter should not be considered an obligation. We are free in Messiah from being bound to man made rulings and traditions. That's what the "Law of Liberty" is all about.

If someone wants to celebrate easter, so what? Nobody is worshipping Ba'al. It's just a tradition, like Purim.

Emanate
Apr 9th 2009, 09:00 PM
How is Easter pagan? The idea of baptizing is pagan as well - are you against it too?

Is God so weak that He can't sanctify a practice and make it His own? If He can't sanctify pagan practices and make them His own, I'm not sure He's even worthy of worship.


Interesting that God can "sanctify a pagan practice" yet those that practice what YHWH isntitued from the beginning are "judaizers (to some)" and "fallen from grace (to others)".

Interesting also that He is "not worthy to be worshipped" if we cannot continue in pagan originated practice.


Am I going to Hell for practicing Easter? Does it lessen my understanding of Christ? Does it affect how I walk with Him? What doctrine does it change? Does it affect how I deal with other people?

No, Without a doubt yes, no, none, to a degree.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 9th 2009, 09:00 PM
Easter's just a man made religious tradition. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it....well man made. What it really boils down to is easter should not be considered an obligation. We are free in Messiah from being bound to man made rulings and traditions. That's what the "Law of Liberty" is all about.

If someone wants to celebrate easter, so what? Nobody is worshipping Ba'al. It's just a tradition, like Purim.

Which is the view I tend to take on this. If someone wants to celebrate Passover with a post-Messiah spin on it, then so be it (this was not clearly conveyed in the other thread). If someone wants to celebrate Easter, then so be it.

For me, I tend to do both.

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 09:05 PM
The post Messiah spin is quite a spin though.....you must admit.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 9th 2009, 09:09 PM
The post Messiah spin is quite a spin though.....you must admit.

To practice it as though He's yet to come is heretical and downright wrong. We're not leaving a chair open for the Messiah - He's already come.

I will say, to do otherwise IS heretical. THAT is what Paul is preaching against. Keeping the old customs as the old customs. They've been fulfilled in Christ. You can practice them, but you have to practice them in a new light and in a different manner.

Emanate
Apr 9th 2009, 09:13 PM
To practice it as though He's yet to come is heretical and downright wrong. We're not leaving a chair open for the Messiah - He's already come.

I will say, to do otherwise IS heretical. THAT is what Paul is preaching against. Keeping the old customs as the old customs. They've been fulfilled in Christ. You can practice them, but you have to practice them in a new light and in a different manner.


I do not follow Rabbinic tradition. The seder has changed significantly over the past 2000 years to the point Messiah would not even recognize. I stick with the commands pre and post Messiah.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 9th 2009, 09:15 PM
I do not follow Rabbinic tradition. The seder has changed significantly over the past 2000 years to the point Messiah would not even recognize. I stick with the commands pre and post Messiah.


That I understand.

It just makes little sense to me for people to practice these days, but not make Christ central to them. That is exactly what Paul was preaching against - it wasn't just circumcision.

Emanate
Apr 9th 2009, 09:16 PM
That I understand.

It just makes little sense to me for people to practice these days, but not make Christ central to them. That is exactly what Paul was preaching against - it wasn't just circumcision.

Messiah's role in Passover is the only reason I celebrate it.

SIG
Apr 9th 2009, 10:33 PM
An aside for those who stumble on the word "Easter," thinking it is linked to the goddess Ishtar:

I have read that the etymology of the word may be from the word "east" or "eastern," a reference to sunrise...

keck553
Apr 9th 2009, 11:57 PM
To practice it as though He's yet to come is heretical and downright wrong. We're not leaving a chair open for the Messiah - He's already come.

I will say, to do otherwise IS heretical. THAT is what Paul is preaching against. Keeping the old customs as the old customs. They've been fulfilled in Christ. You can practice them, but you have to practice them in a new light and in a different manner.

"Custom" alludes to a man made tradition. Like easter. If you're talking about God's commands, then that's tied into the believer's relationship with God and may no man's legalism come in between. I don't know of anyone who believes in Messiah who leaves an empty seat for Him at their seder, so in theory you're correct but in application no believer practices that.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 10th 2009, 12:00 AM
"Custom" alludes to a man made tradition. Like easter. If you're talking about God's commands, then that's between the believer's relationship with God and may no man's legalism come in between.


God's command was also pre-Messiah. I would advocate we can't even follow the OT prescriptions for Passover without having to alter it, otherwise you're missing out on Christ. If He is not central to it, then it is wrong.

keck553
Apr 10th 2009, 12:04 AM
God's command was also pre-Messiah. I would advocate we can't even follow the OT prescriptions for Passover without having to alter it, otherwise you're missing out on Christ. If He is not central to it, then it is wrong.

Yeshua altered it, and as God, I think He had that perogative. An added revealation doesn't annul the previous ones.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 10th 2009, 12:19 AM
Yeshua altered it, and as God, I think He had that perogative. An added revealation doesn't annul the previous ones.


Under that reasoning then we must continue to offer animal sacrifices at the temple. :)


See why there is such a problem when we try to become "too Jewish"?

Johnboy
Apr 10th 2009, 04:16 AM
How is Easter pagan? The idea of baptizing is pagan as well - are you against it too?

Is God so weak that He can't sanctify a practice and make it His own? If He can't sanctify pagan practices and make them His own, I'm not sure He's even worthy of worship.

Am I going to Hell for practicing Easter? Does it lessen my understanding of Christ? Does it affect how I walk with Him? What doctrine does it change? Does it affect how I deal with other people?

If it doesn't do anything with the above, then it seems to me you're best keeping your opinion to yourself because your opinion doesn't really matter in the broad scheme of things. :)
That's just justification to celebrate a festival that you want celebrate. I'm not telling you to not celebrate it that's your call have all the easter eggs you want but don't tell me it's right.

And don't defile the name of God by associating it at all with easter it is man made not God made.

Johnboy
Apr 10th 2009, 04:20 AM
Easter's just a man made religious tradition. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes it....well man made. What it really boils down to is easter should not be considered an obligation. We are free in Messiah from being bound to man made rulings and traditions. That's what the "Law of Liberty" is all about.

If someone wants to celebrate easter, so what? Nobody is worshipping Ba'al. It's just a tradition, like Purim.
How when easter incorporates pagan symbology and purim does not

Vhayes
Apr 10th 2009, 04:32 AM
How when easter incorporates pagan symbology and purim does not
Chicks emerge from eggs.

Lilies bloom after they die back in the fall.

Leave appear on trees that have been dormant all winter.

As far as I am aware, God makes all that happen, not some pagan whatever.

It's about rebirth to me - resurrection if you will. I am certainly not bowing down to some pagan God when I sing, "Up from the grave He arose!"

Please don't try and lay a guilt trip on me - guilt simply slides off me like an egg off of teflon.

One more time for good measure:
Romans 8
1 - Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:26 AM
Who cares what he (Constantine) said. Do you hear this being preached today from pulpits anywhere?

And correction. Our salvation is not Jewish.


Jesus did say salvation was of Israel. I do not fully know what that means but it does not exclude them from at least being a working partner in it somehow and definitely does not exclude them.

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:29 AM
I can see why you would say that but with discovery of ancient manuscripts we are able to come to conclusions that have no influence from Constantine

If you celebrate Christmas and Easter, then this not true for you, because he is the one who made them lawful for the church to observe by endorsing and signing off on their practice.

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:32 AM
Constantine, like many 'Christians' at his time, hated Jews.

And...?


He had even more hatred for christian jews, this was his real target.............. not so much the Jews as a people independent of Christ. He took active steps to remove Jewish influences from Christianity. He succeeded in his efforts as well as his hand picked gentile religious leaders.

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:34 AM
Maybe the "word" Easter is not in there but the death and resurrection is. The word Easter is only a word describing an event that has been translated from Aramaic Pasch.

Certainly, you are not denying the death and resurrection of Christ?

I believe a deeper search of the word would uncover something more pagan in its origin, but that is up to you

Johnboy
Apr 10th 2009, 06:11 AM
Chicks emerge from eggs.

Lilies bloom after they die back in the fall.

Leave appear on trees that have been dormant all winter.

As far as I am aware, God makes all that happen, not some pagan whatever.

It's about rebirth to me - resurrection if you will. I am certainly not bowing down to some pagan God when I sing, "Up from the grave He arose!"

Please don't try and lay a guilt trip on me - guilt simply slides off me like an egg off of teflon.

One more time for good measure:
Romans 8
1 - Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Wasn't trying to lay a guilt trip just pointing out the truth dude you can twist how you like

Vhayes
Apr 10th 2009, 06:52 AM
That would be "dudette" and you didn't respond to the part where I said God was in charge of all that - not a pagan entity.

Does God make the lilies bloom again? If I know that to be true, then why is it that if I use them (or an egg, or whatever) I am somehow honoring a pagan deity I never heard of?

Celebrate (or not) as you will. Allow others to do the same. Each day is a celebration of the Resurrection as far as I am concerned just as each day is a Sabbath.

Just pointing out the truth - you can twist it anyway you like.
V

apothanein kerdos
Apr 10th 2009, 06:53 AM
That's just justification to celebrate a festival that you want celebrate. I'm not telling you to not celebrate it that's your call have all the easter eggs you want but don't tell me it's right.

And don't defile the name of God by associating it at all with easter it is man made not God made.


...says the man with an avatar from a movie promoting pagan beliefs...

Johnboy
Apr 10th 2009, 07:59 AM
...says the man with an avatar from a movie promoting pagan beliefs...
cheap blow with no point... great movie though :lol:

apothanein kerdos
Apr 10th 2009, 08:00 AM
cheap blow with no point... great movie though :lol:

lol

I didn't mean for it to be a cheap blow. But hey, I do make a valid point... :) It's quite inconsistent to say Easter is pagan and we should never associate it with Christ, but then turn around and associate ourselves with pagan movies. If we are Christians, everything we do is associated with Christ. We can't simply divorce ourselves from Christ in any given instance. To act, as a Christian, is to associate Christ with that action.

(And it is a good movie).

Teke
Apr 10th 2009, 12:02 PM
He had even more hatred for christian jews, this was his real target.............. not so much the Jews as a people independent of Christ. He took active steps to remove Jewish influences from Christianity. He succeeded in his efforts as well as his hand picked gentile religious leaders.

The OP was asked for references. Do you have some?
The Constantine that sacked Rome was not a Christian. He was a political leader. Didn't matter to him what religion anyone was. His political decrees were not directives of the church. I think many are confused on that point. ie. instituting no work on Sunday, had nothing to do with the church
Constantine the Great, kept law and order in his kingdom, not the Jews. If it were not for Constantine, Jewish Christians would have been legally stoned by their brethren the Jews. Even Jewish sources will tell you of this. Jews, Samarians and what Jews called "heaven worshippers" (a sect allied with Judaism) were causing trouble for Jewish Christians.

Teke
Apr 10th 2009, 01:31 PM
Chicks emerge from eggs.

Lilies bloom after they die back in the fall.

Leave appear on trees that have been dormant all winter.

As far as I am aware, God makes all that happen, not some pagan whatever.

It's about rebirth to me - resurrection if you will. I am certainly not bowing down to some pagan God when I sing, "Up from the grave He arose!"



Yes, Vhayes, this is the English understanding. "Easter" is from old english meaning "spring".

Etymology info.

The name Easter comes from an ancient Saxon word, eastre, which means “spring.” It may trace back to the root aus, meaning “to shine.” Easter may also trace back to the Latin word alba, which means both “white” and “sunrise.” The German word for sunrise, ostern comes from the aforementioned root aus. Having been translated from Latin to German, ostern may have transformed into the modern word Easter.

So while it is true that the Saxons used the word 'eastre' for a goddess, the word itself still meant "spring" even before that usage.;)

Vhayes
Apr 10th 2009, 02:21 PM
Teke - thank you for your last two posts - they were very helpful to me.
V

keck553
Apr 10th 2009, 04:49 PM
Under that reasoning then we must continue to offer animal sacrifices at the temple. :)

See why there is such a problem when we try to become "too Jewish"?

Not really, I have a better sacrifice in Messiah. Better doesn't annul, it adds to. There is no physical temple, therefore physical sacrifices are not allowed by God's own Word. So your reasoning doesn't work, sorry.

I suppose if I observed Channukka or Purim or some other man made Jewish tradition, you could make that accusation.

Obeying God isn't Jewish anymore than it is Swedish. I'm not handing anything God-breathed to "Jewishness".

I suppose you think that me not being a cross-dresser is trying to be 'Jewish' because that command was given to the Jews. :rolleyes:

apothanein kerdos
Apr 11th 2009, 03:02 AM
Not really, I have a better sacrifice in Messiah. Better doesn't annul, it adds to. There is no physical temple, therefore physical sacrifices are not allowed by God's own Word. So your reasoning doesn't work, sorry.

I suppose if I observed Channukka or Purim or some other man made Jewish tradition, you could make that accusation.

Obeying God isn't Jewish anymore than it is Swedish. I'm not handing anything God-breathed to "Jewishness".

I suppose you think that me not being a cross-dresser is trying to be 'Jewish' because that command was given to the Jews. :rolleyes:


So if there were a physical temple, you'd make sacrifices?

What about the disciples? Were they wrong for not partaking in the sacrifices while the temple was still around?

Any do you still think Christians should be circumcised?

*Hope*
Apr 11th 2009, 03:13 AM
Can someone explain to me why some gentiles feel the need to act Jewish?

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