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manichunter
Apr 9th 2009, 04:05 PM
Is there a command in Scripture that commands us to love ourself? Is it sin to love self or sin to not love self?


I say this because the OT and NT clearly commands us to love God with our all and to love our neighbor as ourself.

Hence, from discussions and study, I have had I conclude that one is not commanded to love themselves and it is something we all naturally do. Moreover, I believe we love ourself to much, to the point of idolatry.

Now my point is this. It is said that we fulfill the law by loving God and our neighbor. So, any act of harming our brother or transgression against God is sin. This would be clear evidence of not showing we have love for either. What about things acts we commit against ourselves like masturbation or self multilation. These acts are violations that harms neither God or our neighbor, but yet we are told not to do it in the OT. Who are we not loving when we act in this manner and is it sin.

I believe we are not loving self, but we are not our own neighbor. Are these issues addressed in the NT. Are they outside of the summary of the torah.

Hence tattooing and masturbation are no longer sin in the NT, right or not right. I believe that they are. And this is a love for self that amounts to idolatry and lust for self (pride of life).

Walstib
Apr 9th 2009, 04:19 PM
Are these issues addressed in the NT?

I think it touches on this concept in at least in these two passages. :)



So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. (Eph 5:28-30 NASB)

Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. (1Co 6:16-20 NASB)

crossnote
Apr 10th 2009, 07:22 AM
Hence tattooing and masturbation are no longer sin in the NT, right or not right. I believe that they are. And this is a love for self that amounts to idolatry and lust for self (pride of life).

How in the world did you slip in tatooing on the same level as masturbation?
If I tatoo my arm with a Scripture verse of salvation, how is this not loving to my neighbor and how is it self love. Neither do I think it qualifies for self mutilation.

bagofseed
Apr 10th 2009, 07:54 AM
Joh (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Joh&chapter=12#25) 12:25 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=12&verse=25)http://net.bible.org/images/advanced.gif
The one who loves his life destroys it, and the one who hates his life in this world guards it for eternal life.

bagofseed
Apr 10th 2009, 07:55 AM
Regarding masturbation:
I consider it a form of self deception.

9Marksfan
Apr 10th 2009, 11:52 AM
Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit - therefore if we sin against our bodies, we are dragging the Spirit of Christ into our sin.

bagofseed
Apr 11th 2009, 01:29 AM
Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit - therefore if we sin against our bodies, we are dragging the Spirit of Christ into our sin.
He came willingly.

9Marksfan
Apr 11th 2009, 08:06 AM
He came willingly.

Into our bodies? Yes - but He didn't come willingly into any sin we choose to commit after being saved - SURELY you're not suggesting that?!?

bagofseed
Apr 11th 2009, 09:18 AM
Into our bodies? Yes - but He didn't come willingly into any sin we choose to commit after being saved - SURELY you're not suggesting that?!?
Yes, he loves us that much.
I am not saying the Holy Spirit sins, but rather he suffers our sin

Dont you think He knew full well what sin we would do in our lives?
Dont you think He suffered and died for the sins of the whole world past present and future on the cross?

The problem is that we do not take God with us to our sin when we should.
He is with us anyway, but we try to close our eyes and act as if He is not.

If we acknowledge Jesus as we go off to our sin we might find that our way is diverted.

We should treat Him as our friend and like David, and walk before Him with our whole heart, even when its wrong and we are walking the wrong road.

Pray God I want to go do this evil thing again, stop me, change me, be with me.

In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight.

matthew7and1
Apr 11th 2009, 10:34 AM
straight forward logic answer:

We know this to be true:
"You shall love others as you love yourself"
Leviticus 19.18


"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."
Matthew 22:36-40
FROM THIS WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT WE SHOULD LOVE OTHERS IN THE SAME MANOR AS WE LOVE OURSELVES. Based on this ALONE if we do not love ourselves, it is OK not to love others.

BUT THEN 1 Corinthians 13:1 tells us:
If I could speak any language of heaven or the 6,000 languages on earth, but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. If I mastered exegesis so that my Bible translation was perfectly accurate, and mastered communication so that others understood the meaning perfectly, but didn't love others, my mastery would be worth nothing unless I loved others.
FROM THIS WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT: We are commanded to to love our neighbors.

Since we know that we ought love others, and that we ought to love others in the same manner as we love ourselves. The only logical comclusion that we CAN come to is that we are commanded to love ourselves. ;)
As far as loving ourselves so much it's idolotry, I would say that that form of self love is not described in these contexts. For if you idolize yourself and then follow the commandment to love others as you love yourself, you are idolizing just about everyone!

*Hope*
Apr 11th 2009, 01:57 PM
I've never thought of this really, but my initial response would be that there are different types of love. We are to "love" our neighbor, but certainly not with eros (instead with phileo - brotherly love). So, "love" must be defined in order to determine how we are using the word. I do believe there is a degree in which we should love ourselves in order to appreciate life, take care of ourselves and even recognize our need for a Savior. However, this should never crossover to "self love" where one becomes narcissistic and self-absorbed. There is a point where our "love" for ourself must be yielded to HIS life and laid down sacrificially. If anything, self-love is often the enemy of godly living. Pride (which is essentially putting yourself above all else) is possibly the perverted conclusion of extreme self-love.

The world has twisted everything God intended. The world tells us to "look out for #1" and "if it's mean to be it's up to me" and all sorts of self-absorbed slogans. We have MySpace and Twitter and facebook so we can promote ourselves 24/7 to a mass audience of other self-absorbed people. We have shelves upon shelves of self-help books and talk shows devoted to discussing personal problems. We have Oprah who is the queen of "love yourself" and at the center of all of his is humanism. But I digress.

Ulitmately, at the center of everything, must be God and His glory. He is the only reason we can love anything at all.

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