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EagleWatch
Apr 9th 2009, 11:50 PM
I'm so angry right now after watching this..please pray
Obama: We are no longer a Christian Nation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik)


www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik)


Mocking Jesus Christ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related

embankmentlb
Apr 10th 2009, 12:01 AM
You may wish to visit this tread.
BibleForums Christian Message Board and Forums > Special Forums > Controversial Issues >USA is not a Christian Nation

My heart's Desire
Apr 10th 2009, 01:16 AM
For those of us who are not enrolled access with youtube none of these links work. Least it didn't for me. ;)

My heart's Desire
Apr 10th 2009, 01:17 AM
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=164138

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 01:55 AM
You may wish to visit this tread.
BibleForums Christian Message Board and Forums > Special Forums > Controversial Issues >USA is not a Christian Nation

Oh I'm so sorry

Butch5
Apr 10th 2009, 03:59 AM
I'm so angry right now after watching this..please pray
Obama: We are no longer a Christian Nation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik)


www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmC3IevZiik)


Mocking Jesus Christ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w&feature=related)

Can any physical nation be a Christian nation?

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 04:43 AM
Can any physical nation be a Christian nation?

Actually yes, if the leadership submits to the authority of the Scripture and the God of Scripture. God throughout history has visited and dealt with the nations.

He called the Assyrians to repentance and obediance to which they did both. He called the Canaanites to repentance and obediance to which they did not, and were judged.


The United States leaders at one time made and enforced laws that were mostly Bible based and conscious of the reality of God. By your age, you should have experienced and witnessed the removal of these laws. Now we mostly make man based and conscious laws.

Vhayes
Apr 10th 2009, 04:54 AM
If the majority of the citizens of a country are Christian, then it will in all likelihood follow Christian principles, thereby making it a Christian nation. Same with a Muslim nation or an atheistic nation (communist).

However, a "Christian nation" is not a theocracy.

Butch5
Apr 10th 2009, 05:02 AM
Actually yes, if the leadership submits to the authority of the Scripture and the God of Scripture. God throughout history has visited and dealt with the nations.

He called the Assyrians to repentance and obediance to which they did both. He called the Canaanites to repentance and obediance to which they did not, and were judged.


The United States leaders at one time made and enforced laws that were mostly Bible based and conscious of the reality of God. By your age, you should have experienced and witnessed the removal of these laws. Now we mostly make man based and conscious laws.

I understand what you are saying, however, my question leans more in toward the teachings of Christ. Christ said my kingdom is not of this world, Christians are not supposed to be of this world, the Scriptures say that friendship with the world is enmity towards God. How can a physical nation exist and at the same time follow Christ's commands? How can a nation not judge? How can a nation not go to war? etc. I agree that the laws of this nation were founded in part on the Scriptures, however, I am not so sure the founding fathers were following Scripture.

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:22 AM
I understand what you are saying, however, my question leans more in toward the teachings of Christ. Christ said my kingdom is not of this world, Christians are not supposed to be of this world, the Scriptures say that friendship with the world is enmity towards God. How can a physical nation exist and at the same time follow Christ's commands? How can a nation not judge? How can a nation not go to war? etc. I agree that the laws of this nation were founded in part on the Scriptures, however, I am not so sure the founding fathers were following Scripture.

God has always wanted to be the God of the nations, but it is the nations that reject him. He sent prophets to all of them in the past, and I am sure he still does.

I believe as you do, I just wanted to expose how God has worked with the nations in the past.

Butch5
Apr 10th 2009, 05:28 AM
God has always wanted to be the God of the nations, but it is the nations that reject him. He sent prophets to all of them in the past, and I am sure he still does.

I believe as you do, I just wanted to expose how God has worked with the nations in the past.

Gotcha, I realize in the OT it was possible for a nation to follow God, I was just thinking in terms of Christ's commands

manichunter
Apr 10th 2009, 05:44 AM
Gotcha, I realize in the OT it was possible for a nation to follow God, I was just thinking in terms of Christ's commands

I believe God still wants the same because He changes not. However, it is far more remote for us to consider it. It is because man as a whole is farther from God in our conscience than then. We are the cold and hard ones as a society. I do not believe God changes His operations or desires.

I believe this has affected the greater whole of christian thinking as well.

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 07:29 PM
Can any physical nation be a Christian nation?

Yes Butch. Our Nation was founded on Christian principles period. Anyone who speaks out against it IMHO has an agenda. Our Forefathers must be shaking their heads wondering Why. We are seeing this country change on a daily basis

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 07:31 PM
If the majority of the citizens of a country are Christian, then it will in all likelihood follow Christian principles, thereby making it a Christian nation. Same with a Muslim nation or an atheistic nation (communist).

However, a "Christian nation" is not a theocracy.

There are many muslims in this country that hate Christians and our beliefs What O is saying that we are no longer a Christian Nation doesn't surprise me

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 07:45 PM
I understand what you are saying, however, my question leans more in toward the teachings of Christ. Christ said my kingdom is not of this world, Christians are not supposed to be of this world, the Scriptures say that friendship with the world is enmity towards God. How can a physical nation exist and at the same time follow Christ's commands? How can a nation not judge? How can a nation not go to war? etc. I agree that the laws of this nation were founded in part on the Scriptures, however, I am not so sure the founding fathers were following Scripture.

We are in this world and but not Of it meaning we are different and follow Him. Too man How's there :D

click on the link to see the charts..Happy study



Ennumerating the Founding Fathers
The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781) and the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). There are a total of 143 signatures on these documents, representing 118 different signers (http://bibleforums.org/#). (Some individuals signed more than one document.)
There were 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. There were 48 signers of the Articles of Confederation. All 55 delegates who participated in the Constitutional Convention of 1787 are regarded as Founding Fathers, in fact, they are often regarded as the Founding Fathers because it is this group that actually debated, drafted and signed the U.S. Constitution, which is the basis for the country's political and legal system. Only 39 delegates actually signed the document, however, meaning there were 16 non-signing delegates - individuals who were Constitutional Convention delegates but were not signers of the Constitution.
There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 "slots" or "positions" in these groups which one can classify as "Founding Fathers" of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (http://bibleforums.org/#multiple) (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress
The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an "American Founding Father." But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock (http://bibleforums.org/#), James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.
Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers# of
Founding
Fathers% of
Founding
FathersEpiscopalian/Anglican8854.7%Presbyterian3018.6%Congregationalis t2716.8%Quaker74.3%Dutch Reformed/German Reformed63.7%Lutheran53.1%Catholic31.9%Huguenot31. 9%Unitarian31.9%Methodist21.2%Calvinist10.6%TOTAL2 04

Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers# of
Founding
Fathers% of
Founding
FathersEpiscopalian/Anglican8854.7%Presbyterian3018.6%Congregationalis t2716.8%Quaker74.3%Dutch Reformed/German Reformed63.7%Lutheran53.1%Catholic31.9%Huguenot31. 9%Unitarian31.9%Methodist21.2%Calvinist10.6%TOTAL2 04

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_religion_were_the_Founding_Fathers

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 07:50 PM
I believe God still wants the same because He changes not. However, it is far more remote for us to consider it. It is because man as a whole is farther from God in our conscience than then. We are the cold and hard ones as a society. I do not believe God changes His operations or desires.

I believe this has affected the greater whole of christian thinking as well.

I agree..BUT...We have a choice to stand up and say Yes we are a Christian Nation..One Nation Under God ...The videos sweeping the net have caused more turmoil.

There is one of him Mocking Jesus Christ and many more..One bowing to the Saudi King
We are never to bow to any man IMHO

matthew94
Apr 10th 2009, 08:05 PM
The quote could mean a lot of different things for the very reason that the label "Christian nation" could mean a lot of different things. Does it mean we were founded on Christian 'ideals and values'? If so, then, yes, to some degree we are a Christian nation (and an "Enlightenment Nation" and many other things). Does it mean Christianity is the religion of the professing majority? If so, then yes, we are a Christian nation.

So in what sense can President Obama say that we don't think of ourselves as a Christian nation? First, I'd have to say that I DISAGREE with him that "we" do not consider ourselves a Christian nation. I think "we" (the majority of US citizens) DO IN FACT think of ourselves as a Christian nation (I dare Obama to take a poll!). But, frankly, I (as 1 specific US citizen) AGREE that we are not a Christian nation. I think a 'Christian nation' would look a lot different than what we look like. In my opinion, we are not a Christian nation in the sense that the majority of us are not following Christ. I think this is bad. Obama, certainly, thinks our non-Christian status is a good thing.

But, to be honest, I'm more concerned with whether we are a CHRISTIAN CHURCH than with whether or not we are a Christian nation!

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 08:31 PM
The quote could mean a lot of different things for the very reason that the label "Christian nation" could mean a lot of different things. Does it mean we were founded on Christian 'ideals and values'? If so, then, yes, to some degree we are a Christian nation (and an "Enlightenment Nation" and many other things). Does it mean Christianity is the religion of the professing majority? If so, then yes, we are a Christian nation.

ME---The quote's from the president who stood in Turkey in front of millions was demeaning. To me I heard no, we don't Believe and we are no longer a Christian nation..in other words. No, forget Jesus and the Christians and 'their belief's'. Since we know he doesn't believe in Jesus THAT it the problem. he made us sound like a people who have nothing and look like fools. He should not ever put Christians in a category with muslims, but he loves them doesn't he?

he sounds more and more like the ac imo.

So in what sense can President Obama say that we don't think of ourselves as a Christian nation? First, I'd have to say that I DISAGREE with him that "we" do not consider ourselves a Christian nation. I think "we" (the majority of US citizens) DO IN FACT think of ourselves as a Christian nation (I dare Obama to take a poll!). But, frankly, I (as 1 specific US citizen) AGREE that we are not a Christian nation. I think a 'Christian nation' would look a lot different than what we look like. In my opinion, we are not a Christian nation in the sense that the majority of us are not following Christ. I think this is bad. Obama, certainly, thinks our non-Christian status is a good thing.

Me--When were you born? lol :saint: How about we are and always be a Christian nation, because as Christians we will boldly stand in the face of adversity. I don't care what he thinks. I only care what Jesus thinks of me and if we don't take a stand and say NO we will tumble down.

But, to be honest, I'm more concerned with whether we are a CHRISTIAN CHURCH than with whether or not we are a Christian nation!

Me--I am the Church and so are you.
oops I made a mistake with the c&p, my apologies

matthew94
Apr 10th 2009, 08:38 PM
My point is that there are probably more Americans NOT following Christ than the number that ARE following Christ (based on our behavior). So, if we're just going by the majority, we're probably not a Christian nation.

But my bigger point is, why does it matter? If, tomorrow, we officially became a Muslim nation, that wouldn't change my Christianity one tiny bit. If anything, I'd become a stronger Christian because of that. So I don't get worried or upset when politicians make statements like that. I am more concerned with the words of another King.

Emanate
Apr 10th 2009, 08:46 PM
I will repost this here. Quotes from some dudes that people generally call "Founding Fathers"

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac, 1754 (Works, Volume XIII)

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions ... shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power ... we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.
- John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785

EagleWatch
Apr 10th 2009, 08:56 PM
My point is that there are probably more Americans NOT following Christ than the number that ARE following Christ (based on our behavior). So, if we're just going by the majority, we're probably not a Christian nation.

But my bigger point is, why does it matter? If, tomorrow, we officially became a Muslim nation, that wouldn't change my Christianity one tiny bit. If anything, I'd become a stronger Christian because of that. So I don't get worried or upset when politicians make statements like that. I am more concerned with the words of another King.

I don't take polls on who is/who isn't a Christian are are following Christ..
It certainly does matter If we become a muslim nation. Sharia Law will come into place. I think many will deny their faith and then the Apostasy.
I do care when a president makes statements like he has.

Tomlane
Apr 11th 2009, 02:36 AM
Other than having the freedom of religion, I never knew we were a Christian nation. If we had been, those who wrote the constitution would have not had slaves and allowed slavery and to allow them to be beaten like animals. Also women never got equal billing until around 1920, about 70 years after the slaves were freed from one bondage into another with the carpetbaggers and thrown out into the cold like they had never been in bondage. A person can't function like a free man when society sees them as a people to be avoided as they did for so many years.

Tomlane

Butch5
Apr 12th 2009, 04:11 AM
Yes Butch. Our Nation was founded on Christian principles period. Anyone who speaks out against it IMHO has an agenda. Our Forefathers must be shaking their heads wondering Why. We are seeing this country change on a daily basis

Has an agenda??? Your OP asks are we no longer a Christian nation? How can a physical nation be a Christian nation? Christ said, my kingdom is not of this world. If we are Christians, then we belong to a kingdom that is not of this world. Can you explain how a physical nation can follow Christ's commands and continue to exist? Commands such as not to go to war, not to judge others, etc. How can a nation survive if it does not defend itself? How can a nation have a judicial system if it does not judge? How can a nation survive if it loves it's enemies?

Zack702
Apr 12th 2009, 06:01 AM
I guess its perfectly ok with Obama that you follow a idol to your eternal death as long as his popularity rating is high.

We have always had freedom of religion here and he wants to pretend like its a new thing. But one thing we are christian founded.

The way I see it is Obama either doesn't understand America at all. Or he understands it all to well and has been manipulating his supporters from the get go.

When the money says in God we trust you can safely bet that dollar doesn't mean budda. Ask any real American what God it means and the name is sure to roll of there tounge lickety split. Else your dealing with someone who does not whole heartly believe in who we trust.

Tomlane
Apr 12th 2009, 06:18 AM
One thing that has come to mind and you can be the judge if this right or wrong but I just has a thought.

The Jew got to be a nation again after world war 2. Part of that war was to exterminate the Jews. I also believe the reason they suffered so much is God still has Israel under a curse and they are the most hated of all nations or close to it.

Here is the tie in with the United States. After world war two while Israel was in the process of becoming a nation, the USA was becoming a world power, until it became feared by other nations because of its military might. I believe God purpose for the USA's military buildup is to protect Israel until God is ready to end the time of the Gentile and now that that end is near, I can see the USA now being reduced as a nation, now economically and definitely spiritually and in the near future militarily. Our new president is already setting the stage for all of this to come about. I do believe he is God's chosen servant to bring us down so the world will be ready and willing to receive the anti Christ.

If times were good, then there would be no need for deliverance from one who people think is god. People have a tendency to put God aside when time are good. I do believe we are in the beginning of sorrows as set forth by the Lord in Matthew 24. I'm sure you all can see the increase in all that is happening. Increase in famine, earthquakes, drought, fires, violence, see how often mass murdering is almost every day now. Not long ago, maybe once a every few month a few people would be all murdered at the same time. Also see the increase in immorality, and its flaunted now and not kept in the closet. Our core values are being reversed and this is not just his country but world wide. I believe soon there will be a meeting in the air for believers.
Are you ready?

Tomlane

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 06:27 AM
Has an agenda??? Your OP asks are we no longer a Christian nation? How can a physical nation be a Christian nation? Christ said, my kingdom is not of this world. If we are Christians, then we belong to a kingdom that is not of this world. Can you explain how a physical nation can follow Christ's commands and continue to exist? Commands such as not to go to war, not to judge others, etc. How can a nation survive if it does not defend itself? How can a nation have a judicial system if it does not judge? How can a nation survive if it loves it's enemies?

Yep he sure does have an agenda. You don't think obama doesn't have an agenda? I do belong to Jesus and we Are in this world but not Of it meaning spiritually.
A physical nation can follow Christ's commands and continue to exist? We're still here so far and survived Sept. 11th. That brought war and Christians arose in deep prayer and intercession for this Country like never before.
Now look what we have from a president who has cursed God, Mocked Jesus and the Word of God and you say he doesn't have an agenda?
the messiah complex along with his side-kick oprah is doing more damage and duped millions Denying Jesus Christ..
That is why he said we are no longer a Christian Nation, because he isn't. I'm not Under any president and have no respect for the hypocritical lies. Honestly, I have a hard time praying for all the leaders in the land as the Lord told us to do. When they blaspheme my Lord a righteous anger rises up in my spirit and That my brother is God

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 06:29 AM
I guess its perfectly ok with Obama that you follow a idol to your eternal death as long as his popularity rating is high.

We have always had freedom of religion here and he wants to pretend like its a new thing. But one thing we are christian founded.

The way I see it is Obama either doesn't understand America at all. Or he understands it all to well and has been manipulating his supporters from the get go.

When the money says in God we trust you can safely bet that dollar doesn't mean budda. Ask any real American what God it means and the name is sure to roll of there tounge lickety split. Else your dealing with someone who does not whole heartly believe in who we trust.


You got it-control and manipulation. I don't follow him at all.

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 06:32 AM
One thing that has come to mind and you can be the judge if this right or wrong but I just has a thought.

The Jew got to be a nation again after world war 2. Part of that war was to exterminate the Jews. I also believe the reason they suffered so much is God still has Israel under a curse and they are the most hated of all nations or close to it.

Here is the tie in with the United States. After world war two while Israel was in the process of becoming a nation, the USA was becoming a world power, until it became feared by other nations because of its military might. I believe God purpose for the USA's military buildup is to protect Israel until God is ready to end the time of the Gentile and now that that end is near, I can see the USA now being reduced as a nation, now economically and definitely spiritually and in the near future militarily. Our new president is already setting the stage for all of this to come about. I do believe he is God's chosen servant to bring us down so the world will be ready and willing to receive the anti Christ.

If times were good, then there would be no need for deliverance from one who people think is god. People have a tendency to put God aside when time are good. I do believe we are in the beginning of sorrows as set forth by the Lord in Matthew 24. I'm sure you all can see the increase in all that is happening. Increase in famine, earthquakes, drought, fires, violence, see how often mass murdering is almost every day now. Not long ago, maybe once a every few month a few people would be all murdered at the same time. Also see the increase in immorality, and its flaunted now and not kept in the closet. Our core values are being reversed and this is not just his country but world wide. I believe soon there will be a meeting in the air for believers.
Are you ready?

Tomlane

I agree and you explained it a lot better that I did..Thank you for a great post
IMHO he is the Foreshadow and Frontrunner of The Antichrist..

brakelite
Apr 12th 2009, 07:46 AM
America was a haven for the persecuted of Europe. Those escaping the tyranny of the RCC and the CoE found refuge on your shores. Although the early settlers were escaping form lands where abuse of religious freedom was rife, it took them some time to figure out how to exercise and grant freedom themselves. Eventually, however, the founding fathers got it right. They established a republican democracy, designed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. A nation where there was a free state without a king, and a free church without a pope.

The freedoms you now enjoy are founded on protestant principles of the priesthood of all believers, where no-one believer is subject to the dictates of another, but all are responsible directly to God in matters of conscience. Thus the state left itself powerless in matters of worship , and in establishing or supporting religion.

America is founded on Christian principles of freedom. The first amendment principles are found throughout the bible and are basic to the teachings of Jesus. God Himself believes religious liberty so 'unalienable' that He chose the way of the cross instead of coercing men to righteousness. Even atheism is allowed freedom, and so it should.

God did indeed choose your land as a place of resurgence for the reformation. In Europe, the reformation had faltered. Those who followed the teachings of Luther refused new light from the Wesleys. Those who followed Wesley, refused new light from Calvin, and on and on it went. Each clinging tenaciously to what they had received, but progressing no further, and each persecuting the next generation aka Baptists.
But God had prepared a land where His people may grow without hindrance and without restraint. And John the Revelator spoke of your nation in Revelation 12 and in 13. The woman (the church) that flew into the wilderness found haven in the earth, where the floods of falsehood from her persecutors was swallowed up. This earth produced the second beast of rev 13 which had the appearance of a Lamb (Christlike qualities) but would later speak as a dragon. So the nation spoken of began with Christian principles of freedom, but would not remain so. Today those principles are under attack, sadly from protestant interests who see the first amendment as a hindrance to religious liberty as opposed to your nation's greatest asset.

Today, the cries from the Christian right demanding recognition from everybody that you should be recognised as a Christian nation, are the spawning ground for the image to the beast, a church/state union which in Europe and Britain had cost the lives of millions of so called heretics and dissenters that refused to bow down to the party line. It seems that the rivers of blood that are etched across the history of Europe are soon to find new ground in which to flow.

Americans need to avoid the epithet 'Christian nation' like the plague.

Zack702
Apr 12th 2009, 08:13 AM
One thing that has come to mind and you can be the judge if this right or wrong but I just has a thought.

The Jew got to be a nation again after world war 2. Part of that war was to exterminate the Jews. I also believe the reason they suffered so much is God still has Israel under a curse and they are the most hated of all nations or close to it.

Here is the tie in with the United States. After world war two while Israel was in the process of becoming a nation, the USA was becoming a world power, until it became feared by other nations because of its military might. I believe God purpose for the USA's military buildup is to protect Israel until God is ready to end the time of the Gentile and now that that end is near, I can see the USA now being reduced as a nation, now economically and definitely spiritually and in the near future militarily. Our new president is already setting the stage for all of this to come about. I do believe he is God's chosen servant to bring us down so the world will be ready and willing to receive the anti Christ.

If times were good, then there would be no need for deliverance from one who people think is god. People have a tendency to put God aside when time are good. I do believe we are in the beginning of sorrows as set forth by the Lord in Matthew 24. I'm sure you all can see the increase in all that is happening. Increase in famine, earthquakes, drought, fires, violence, see how often mass murdering is almost every day now. Not long ago, maybe once a every few month a few people would be all murdered at the same time. Also see the increase in immorality, and its flaunted now and not kept in the closet. Our core values are being reversed and this is not just his country but world wide. I believe soon there will be a meeting in the air for believers.
Are you ready?

Tomlane

Well I wouldn't count him out just yet.

All the "conservatives" said that he is not experienced enough. And almost everyone is becoming aware of that. Obama is only doing what he thinks will be "popular". Most people are not even willing to face up to why exactly he is our president and we really don't need to discuss that here. But I still have faith that he can figure it out as he goes how to make positive changes rather than just trying to remain popular.

I don't know if he is part of a agenda it's only speculation. Of course he has a agenda but I don't know if that is directly manipulation or if he honestly is just unexperienced and doesn't even really understand America as a whole but just as a society superstar.

Zack702
Apr 12th 2009, 08:38 AM
Today, the cries from the Christian right demanding recognition from everybody that you should be recognised as a Christian nation, are the spawning ground for the image to the beast, a church/state union which in Europe and Britain had cost the lives of millions of so called heretics and dissenters that refused to bow down to the party line. It seems that the rivers of blood that are etched across the history of Europe are soon to find new ground in which to flow.

Americans need to avoid the epithet 'Christian nation' like the plague.

Jesus Christ inspired the men and women who founded this nation it's laws and it's constitution.

Believing in the truth is far beyond church/state union it covers the entire life and death of us all. A Christian understands you can't leave off your God when you go to work. Noone in America is trying to force Christianity on anyone. But the day America becomes a buddist nation is the day America dies. And by no means by the utterance of a puffed up politician. But by the direct commandment of God. If your a believer in the word and Jesus Christ you will understand our ancient history with idols and you will understand why we must absolutely must remain christian centered. Else I have no idea what beast you are dealing with.

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 08:48 AM
America was a haven for the persecuted of Europe. Those escaping the tyranny of the RCC and the CoE found refuge on your shores. Although the early settlers were escaping form lands where abuse of religious freedom was rife, it took them some time to figure out how to exercise and grant freedom themselves. Eventually, however, the founding fathers got it right. They established a republican democracy, designed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. A nation where there was a free state without a king, and a free church without a pope.

The freedoms you now enjoy are founded on protestant principles of the priesthood of all believers, where no-one believer is subject to the dictates of another, but all are responsible directly to God in matters of conscience. Thus the state left itself powerless in matters of worship , and in establishing or supporting religion.

America is founded on Christian principles of freedom. The first amendment principles are found throughout the bible and are basic to the teachings of Jesus. God Himself believes religious liberty so 'unalienable' that He chose the way of the cross instead of coercing men to righteousness. Even atheism is allowed freedom, and so it should.

God did indeed choose your land as a place of resurgence for the reformation. In Europe, the reformation had faltered. Those who followed the teachings of Luther refused new light from the Wesleys. Those who followed Wesley, refused new light from Calvin, and on and on it went. Each clinging tenaciously to what they had received, but progressing no further, and each persecuting the next generation aka Baptists.
But God had prepared a land where His people may grow without hindrance and without restraint. And John the Revelator spoke of your nation in Revelation 12 and in 13. The woman (the church) that flew into the wilderness found haven in the earth, where the floods of falsehood from her persecutors was swallowed up. This earth produced the second beast of rev 13 which had the appearance of a Lamb (Christlike qualities) but would later speak as a dragon. So the nation spoken of began with Christian principles of freedom, but would not remain so. Today those principles are under attack, sadly from protestant interests who see the first amendment as a hindrance to religious liberty as opposed to your nation's greatest asset.

Today, the cries from the Christian right demanding recognition from everybody that you should be recognised as a Christian nation, are the spawning ground for the image to the beast, a church/state union which in Europe and Britain had cost the lives of millions of so called heretics and dissenters that refused to bow down to the party line. It seems that the rivers of blood that are etched across the history of Europe are soon to find new ground in which to flow.

Americans need to avoid the epithet 'Christian nation' like the plague.

Ok now but I disagree America is the 'woman' in Rev.12-13..and that Bro is another subject. Thank you for your input..Blessings

brakelite
Apr 12th 2009, 08:57 AM
Ok now but I disagree America is the 'woman' in Rev.12-13..and that Bro is another subject. Thank you for your input..Blessings

I didn't say that the US was the woman. The woman is God's people, the true church of all ages. The US is the earth in which the woman found refuge.

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 09:34 AM
Jesus Christ inspired the men and women who founded this nation it's laws and it's constitution.

Believing in the truth is far beyond church/state union it covers the entire life and death of us all. A Christian understands you can't leave off your God when you go to work. Noone in America is trying to force Christianity on anyone. But the day America becomes a buddist nation is the day America dies. And by no means by the utterance of a puffed up politician. But by the direct commandment of God. If your a believer in the word and Jesus Christ you will understand our ancient history with idols and you will understand why we must absolutely must remain christian centered. Else I have no idea what beast you are dealing with.

AMEN! It wouldn't surprise me if God allowed this nation to come under islam for a season. God forbid and help us. We're in a mess with all the idols and people not Worshipping Jesus. And don't forget Sharia Law

Zack702
Apr 12th 2009, 10:07 AM
AMEN! It wouldn't surprise me if God allowed this nation to come under islam for a season. God forbid and help us. We're in a mess with all the idols and people not Worshipping Jesus. And don't forget Sharia Law

Edit:
I just checked the other thread and I am sure we are in the wrong place here. I usually just read up in bible chat forum but I don't think its the right place for this topic especially considering what the mods said over there. Almost noone there thinks we are or ever were a christian nation because we have sin. I think we are christian centered if we accept it we are ready to accept it but only lack accepting it. If you can see past the vile things we have been through to see why we go through them and then come out knowing why we have freedom of religion freedom from slavery freedom from opression and tyranny these are our values and by no means did we derive them from our own will. Ok thats all I am saying this is my last post as I am sure this isnt the place or time for this topic.

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 03:22 PM
Edit:
I just checked the other thread and I am sure we are in the wrong place here. I usually just read up in bible chat forum but I don't think its the right place for this topic especially considering what the mods said over there. Almost noone there thinks we are or ever were a christian nation because we have sin. I think we are christian centered if we accept it we are ready to accept it but only lack accepting it. If you can see past the vile things we have been through to see why we go through them and then come out knowing why we have freedom of religion freedom from slavery freedom from opression and tyranny these are our values and by no means did we derive them from our own will. Ok thats all I am saying this is my last post as I am sure this isnt the place or time for this topic.

I didn't know there was another thread. Of course there is sin in this nation but I was talking about what the Forefathers did

decrumpit
Apr 12th 2009, 04:58 PM
AMEN! It wouldn't surprise me if God allowed this nation to come under islam for a season. God forbid and help us. We're in a mess with all the idols and people not Worshipping Jesus. And don't forget Sharia Law

With Muslims at .6% of the population, I dont see that happening anytime soon.

When any government mixes church and state... guess which one gets corrupted?

Hint: It's not the state!

EagleWatch
Apr 12th 2009, 06:47 PM
AMEN! It wouldn't surprise me if God allowed this nation to come under islam for a season. God forbid and help us. We're in a mess with all the idols and people not Worshipping Jesus. And don't forget Sharia Law

With Muslims at .6% of the population, I dont see that happening anytime soon.

When any government mixes church and state... guess which one gets corrupted?

Hint: It's not the state!

Right now it's both.....Canada has Sharia Law

billy-brown 2
Apr 12th 2009, 11:37 PM
Saints,

Where is our citizenship?

Phil. 3:17-21

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

(. . . just wondering . . .)

Walstib
Apr 13th 2009, 01:41 AM
Right now it's both.....Canada has Sharia Law

Well I may not be part of the "we" in your original question. I can't help but wonder what you mean when you say we have Sharia law here in Canada.

Please elaborate what you mean as this is a new one for me but I could be misunderstanding you here. I think after some people lobbied for it in this one province (Ontario) a few years ago it actually made a greater separation between religion and state if you look into it. Does not prevent them from doing it illegally anyway.

Don't get me wrong, we have some messed up stuff going on right now and I have never figured out why anyone would call a nation itself Christian.

Still may... God keep our land, glorious and free....

Peace,
Joe

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 01:57 AM
Saints,

Where is our citizenship?

Phil. 3:17-21

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

(. . . just wondering . . .)


You forgot about the verse after it that talks about how there are two huge glorious American flags outside the gates of Heaven.

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 02:17 AM
Yep he sure does have an agenda. You don't think obama doesn't have an agenda? I do belong to Jesus and we Are in this world but not Of it meaning spiritually.
A physical nation can follow Christ's commands and continue to exist? We're still here so far and survived Sept. 11th. That brought war and Christians arose in deep prayer and intercession for this Country like never before.
Now look what we have from a president who has cursed God, Mocked Jesus and the Word of God and you say he doesn't have an agenda?
the messiah complex along with his side-kick oprah is doing more damage and duped millions Denying Jesus Christ..
That is why he said we are no longer a Christian Nation, because he isn't. I'm not Under any president and have no respect for the hypocritical lies. Honestly, I have a hard time praying for all the leaders in the land as the Lord told us to do. When they blaspheme my Lord a righteous anger rises up in my spirit and That my brother is God

I didn't say anything about the president. You said anyone who says America is not a Christians nation has an agenda. I thought you were referring to me because of what I posted. As I asked in my previous post. How can a physical nation follow Christ's commands and continue to exist?
Christ commands that we not g to war, how does a notion defend itself if it does not go to war. Christ said we are not to judge, how does a nation have a judicial system, if it does not judge. If a physical nation loves it's enemies how does it survive? These are the kind of questions that need to be addressed for a nation to follow Christ. I don't see how this can be done.

decrumpit
Apr 13th 2009, 02:46 AM
Right now it's both.....Canada has Sharia Law

No, it doesn't.



Even if it did, it would only apply to Muslims and only cases about inheritance and custody.

EagleWatch
Apr 13th 2009, 02:27 PM
[quote=Walstib;2043158]Well I may not be part of the "we" in your original question. I can't help but wonder what you mean when you say we have Sharia law here in Canada.

Please elaborate what you mean as this is a new one for me but I could be misunderstanding you here. I think after some people lobbied for it in this one province (Ontario) a few years ago it actually made a greater separation between religion and state if you look into it. Does not prevent them from doing it illegally anyway.


My mistake, please accept my apologies...You are correct

Walstib
Apr 13th 2009, 04:03 PM
My mistake, please accept my apologies...You are correct

All good, no worries. :)

I am sure I have allot of misinformation about the states myself. This thread got me thinking of manifest destiny stuff and the war of 1812. I thought there was some sort of slogan like "50 or die" when the border was held at the 49th parallel but I could not find evidence of that anywhere. Seems too there is a "militia myth" I thought was real. :dunno:

I'll will say the manifest destiny and Christian nation don't go so well together sitting on this side of the border.

Peace,
Joe

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 04:08 PM
All good, no worries. :)

I am sure I have allot of misinformation about the states myself. This thread got me thinking of manifest destiny stuff and the war of 1812. I thought there was some sort of slogan like "50 or die" when the border was held at the 49th parallel but I could not find evidence of that anywhere. Seems too there is a "militia myth" I thought was real. :dunno:

I'll will say the manifest destiny and Christian nation don't go so well together sitting on this side of the border.

Peace,
Joe


Doesn't go well with the Bible either.

I think the problem is people forget there is a difference between a "Christian nation" and "Christian principles." America was most certainly founded upon Christian principles, but it certainly wasn't a Christian nation and certainly didn't accept ALL of the Christian principles.

EagleWatch
Apr 13th 2009, 05:41 PM
I didn't say anything about the president. You said anyone who says America is not a Christians nation has an agenda. I thought you were referring to me because of what I posted. As I asked in my previous post. How can a physical nation follow Christ's commands and continue to exist?
Christ commands that we not g to war, how does a notion defend itself if it does not go to war. Christ said we are not to judge, how does a nation have a judicial system, if it does not judge. If a physical nation loves it's enemies how does it survive? These are the kind of questions that need to be addressed for a nation to follow Christ. I don't see how this can be done.

I think we have a communication block..I didn't say anyone who says America isn't a Christian nation has an agenda. I was saying Obama has an agenda.
Christ never commanded us Not to go to war and as far as your other questions I don't know

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 06:04 PM
I think we have a communication block..I didn't say anyone who says America isn't a Christian nation has an agenda. I was saying Obama has an agenda.
Christ never commanded us Not to go to war and as far as your other questions I don't know

Jesus said to love your enemies, how does one love their enemy when they go to war against them?

Emanate
Apr 13th 2009, 06:39 PM
Jesus said to love your enemies, how does one love their enemy when they go to war against them?




Messiah usually spoke on a personal level, not a national level.

EagleWatch
Apr 13th 2009, 06:56 PM
Jesus said to love your enemies, how does one love their enemy when they go to war against them?



Ask that to everyone in our Military serving our country who fought in WWI & WWII and in Iraq/Iran who were killed for our Freedom. Love them? Or have them blow Israel and the USA off the map? Are we not to defend and protect our Nation or sit back and say, hey we Love you But go ahead do it your way

DarwinsDead
Apr 13th 2009, 08:03 PM
As a nation which was founded on 'Christian principles' ie, love, compassion, how is it that we feel justified in utterly destroying the lands and lives of our sworn mortal enemies in onther lands. Because God favors Americans, that's how. It is our time to rise up against the tyranny of these muslim heathens. They come from a godless land and have no morals. Giving us a slave President is Gods way of saying, "Here, the battle is at home now. Take back your lands first and then worry about converting and protecting the foreign paegans." Has the Bible not taught us that the only way to Peace is through trial and bloodshed?

DarwinsDead
Apr 13th 2009, 08:55 PM
Sorry, I just had to point this out....

quote:
When any government mixes church and state... guess which one gets corrupted? Hint: It's not the state!

THIS is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. Are you serious? I fail to see how a man-made institution in anyway could possibly taint any Righteous church. God is above the influence of man. Now, when you have politicians, statesmen, lawyers, judges and cops who are so stringent in their beliefs they allow their responsiblities to become negated, then you have a real problem. Why do you think the Pope has no real power? Why do you think the free world leaders can't force the people into blind faith? Because there are seperate entities in place to police each respectively. This is why countries like Canada and most northern European countries have little to do with wars and conflicts. They keep their dirty laundry seperate from the clean. Other, less enlightened, countries like Bosnia, Somalia, U.S.A., communist China will always be instigators because of their unflinching belief that God runs the government. As soon as superpowers like China or the States start deciding what is good for everyone (including their souls) they become morally and spiritually OBSOLETE. Theology has NO place in politics and must be purged in order for either to be effective.

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 09:05 PM
Ask that to everyone in our Military serving our country who fought in WWI & WWII and in Iraq/Iran who were killed for our Freedom. Love them? Or have them blow Israel and the USA off the map? Are we not to defend and protect our Nation or sit back and say, hey we Love you But go ahead do it your way

You have not answered the question. Are we following man or Christ?

DarwinsDead
Apr 13th 2009, 09:11 PM
If you want to be regarded as a good Christian, follow God. If you would rather be regarded as a compassionate human being, follow man. If you would rather be content in knowing that you are a good person regardless of what others think, follow yourself.

"It's not that I don't believe in God, it's just that I put my faith in people."

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 09:12 PM
As a nation which was founded on 'Christian principles' ie, love, compassion, how is it that we feel justified in utterly destroying the lands and lives of our sworn mortal enemies in onther lands. Because God favors Americans, that's how. It is our time to rise up against the tyranny of these muslim heathens. They come from a godless land and have no morals. Giving us a slave President is Gods way of saying, "Here, the battle is at home now. Take back your lands first and then worry about converting and protecting the foreign paegans." Has the Bible not taught us that the only way to Peace is through trial and bloodshed?

God favors Americans? Which Americans did God favor in the Civil War? A war in which we had God's people killing God's people. What about the Revolutionary war? Again, God's People killing God's people. Jesus said love your enemies, not kill them.

DarwinsDead
Apr 13th 2009, 09:28 PM
Ask any Confederate who God favored in the American Civil war and they will without a doubt tell you it was the South. Also, I would like to answer your question with another if I may;

Whose side is God on in the Middle East? God's People the Americans, or, the People of God's Land, the Iraqis?

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 09:36 PM
Ask any Confederate who God favored in the American Civil war and they will without a doubt tell you it was the South. Also, I would like to answer your question with another if I may;

Whose side is God on in the Middle East? God's People the Americans, or, the People of God's Land, the Iraqis?

Every side thinks God is with them, Ask the Muslims if God is with them.

Why do you assume He is on any side? Jesus said, "my kingdom is not of this world, if it were my servants would fight". Why do you assume the Americans are God's people?

teddyv
Apr 13th 2009, 09:54 PM
All good, no worries. :)

I am sure I have allot of misinformation about the states myself. This thread got me thinking of manifest destiny stuff and the war of 1812. I thought there was some sort of slogan like "50 or die" when the border was held at the 49th parallel but I could not find evidence of that anywhere. Seems too there is a "militia myth" I thought was real. :dunno:

I'll will say the manifest destiny and Christian nation don't go so well together sitting on this side of the border.

Peace,
Joe

You are thinking of "54-40 or fight" a slogan suggesting the US should occupy the land from the to the latitude 54°40'.
http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/5440orfight.htm

DarwinsDead
Apr 13th 2009, 09:58 PM
Why do I assume Americans are favored by God? Because that is what the President of the United States, George W. Bush, keeps telling us. Are you accusing the President of lying? Also, you have said it yourself,

"A war in which we had God's people killing God's people."

Psalm 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred. I count them among my enemies.

Muslims would tell me that their side is aligned with Allah, who, if you bothered to read the Quaran, is God. The problem with that arguement is this.... Muslims believe that the terms God and Allah are interchangeable and mean the same, regardless of religion. Christians believe that Muslims are wrong.

Butch5
Apr 13th 2009, 11:25 PM
Why do I assume Americans are favored by God? Because that is what the President of the United States, George W. Bush, keeps telling us. Are you accusing the President of lying? Also, you have said it yourself,

"A war in which we had God's people killing God's people."

Psalm 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred. I count them among my enemies.

Muslims would tell me that their side is aligned with Allah, who, if you bothered to read the Quaran, is God. The problem with that arguement is this.... Muslims believe that the terms God and Allah are interchangeable and mean the same, regardless of religion. Christians believe that Muslims are wrong.

First I was not speaking of presidents, second when I said God's people killing God's people, I was not referring to them as Americans, but as Christians. I also referred to the Revolutionary war which had both Americans and English, I referred to both as God's people. Which question by the way remains unanswered.

Regarding the Muslims, whether they believe the same or differently than Christians is irrelevant, both sides believe God is on their side.

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 11:29 PM
As far as nations go, only Israel has a promise from God. The other nations are judged by thier relationship to/with Israel.

EagleWatch
Apr 14th 2009, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by EagleWatch
Ask that to everyone in our Military serving our country who fought in WWI & WWII and in Iraq/Iran who were killed for our Freedom. Love them? Or have them blow Israel and the USA off the map? Are we not to defend and protect our Nation or sit back and say, hey we Love you But go ahead do it your way

You have not answered the question. Are we following man or Christ?

Excuse me? You're the one who made a comment about 'loving our enemies' -war etc
The above is my answer. I follow Jesus period and and when there is another War fighting for This Country so we can have Freedom, let me know how you feel for Every lost life who Fought for all of us

Zack702
Apr 14th 2009, 05:54 AM
As far as nations go, only Israel has a promise from God. The other nations are judged by thier relationship to/with Israel.


All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.


edit:"Ok thats all I am saying this is my last post as I am sure this isnt the place or time for this topic. " I know I said this but since the thread is still around I thought I would post up this scripture that I came across.

decrumpit
Apr 14th 2009, 08:45 AM
I fail to see how a man-made institution in anyway could possibly taint any Righteous church. God is above the influence of man.

Just look at the so called "Christian" nations where Church membership is mandatory and Christianity is the designated state religion.

And then look at the nations that are made up of Christian believers.

The so called "Christian" nations are among the most opposed to the Christian message - they openly advocate abortion, homosexuality, free sex, drug use, prostitution, etc. Despite the fact that 70+% of the population identifies as Christian, they're only nominally associated.

The countries (USA, South Korea, several African countries) where freedom of religion is tolerated, Christianity is growing. These countries (until recently) have been the most progressive while remaining the most conservative.

If the government tries to impose a minority viewpoint on the nation, it will be heavily resisted. History has demonstrated this over and over again. When Christianity focuses on changing lives, it thrives. When it lusts after temporal power, it is seen as oppressor and becomes stale, and dies.


Why do you think the Pope has no real power? Why do you think the free world leaders can't force the people into blind faith? Because there are seperate entities in place to police each respectively. This is why countries like Canada and most northern European countries have little to do with wars and conflicts. They keep their dirty laundry seperate from the clean. Other, less enlightened, countries like Bosnia, Somalia, U.S.A., communist China will always be instigators because of their unflinching belief that God runs the government. As soon as superpowers like China or the States start deciding what is good for everyone (including their souls) they become morally and spiritually OBSOLETE. Theology has NO place in politics and must be purged in order for either to be effective.

I think I agree with you here, although I don't quite get what you're saying.

Despite the fact that Bush felt that God was talking to him was beside the point. The US has never instigated wars for religious reasons, although being a world superpower does have its disadvantages. America is essentially the defender of freedom and democracy.

I think you would be hard pressed to find countries that believe that God runs the government, with the exception of Muslim countries. China is decidedly atheistic, while thugs in Bosnia or Afghanistan or wherever might be religious nutcases, but they hardly run the governments.

Butch5
Apr 14th 2009, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by EagleWatch
Ask that to everyone in our Military serving our country who fought in WWI & WWII and in Iraq/Iran who were killed for our Freedom. Love them? Or have them blow Israel and the USA off the map? Are we not to defend and protect our Nation or sit back and say, hey we Love you But go ahead do it your way

You have not answered the question. Are we following man or Christ?

Excuse me? You're the one who made a comment about 'loving our enemies' -war etc
The above is my answer. I follow Jesus period and and when there is another War fighting for This Country so we can have Freedom, let me know how you feel for Every lost life who Fought for all of us


Dude, you're not answering the question. You're statements here are not an answer. The question is how is one loving their enemy when they go to war against them? How we feel does not change Christ's command, Jesus said love your enemy.

Vhayes
Apr 14th 2009, 07:15 PM
I don't want to get into this but I do have a question -

How is allowing/not going to war against Nazis commiting genocide showing "love"?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer this -
V

keck553
Apr 14th 2009, 07:17 PM
I don't want to get into this but I do have a question -

How is allowing/not going to war against Nazis commiting genocide showing "love"?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer this -
V

Turning away from and appeasing those who promogulate evil acts only shows indifference. In that dismal state, we would be no better off if we had evolved from plankton.

Vhayes
Apr 14th 2009, 07:26 PM
Turning away from and appeasing those who promogulate evil acts only shows indifference. In that dismal state, we would be no better off if we had evolved from plankton.
The only thing I can equate it to is standing by and watching the neighbor kid throw rocks through another neighbors windows and doing nothing to stop it because I "love" the kid.

It simply does not compute in my shallow mind.

billy-brown 2
Apr 14th 2009, 11:46 PM
You forgot about the verse after it that talks about how there are two huge glorious American flags outside the gates of Heaven.

How could I have forgotten about that verse?

. . . silly me . . .

:lol:

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