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Windmill2000
Apr 12th 2009, 05:01 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

*Hope*
Apr 12th 2009, 10:48 PM
I don't know what this means and I'm not entirely sure it's biblical. First thing I would do is search the Scriptures to see if what you heard lines up with God's word. If not, then I'd discard it.

Remember, just because something is described in Scripture doesn't mean it is prescribed to us.

billy-brown 2
Apr 13th 2009, 12:14 AM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

But is there a Bible verse that indicates that one can receive a "fresh anointing?"

Indeed, Paul wrote this:

Eph. 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

And John wrote this:

I John 2:18-29

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

THOM
Apr 13th 2009, 02:31 AM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Remember the following:


1)FACT: "THE WORD of GOD"; JESUS CHRIST; Scripture.


2) FAITH: "Believing GOD".


3)FEELING(s): They never ever precede FACT and FAITH!!!

It that order ONLY!


Now then, where in all of Scripture can you find the phrase, "a fresh anointing", or even a reasonable facsimile? Did GOD give Jonah "a fresh anointing" from the belly of the great fish? It does sometimes cause me to wonder, because after Jonah was puked up by that fish, he made a 3-day journey in only one day (Jonah 3:3-4).

You obviously believed that you're already been "anointed"; What did you do with that one? Did you lose it? How? Is what you're really wanting GOD to do for you is to, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation. . .(Psalm 51:12)"? Have you lost your "joy"?

If what you're believing doesn't line up, TOTALLY, with THE WORD of GOD ("All Scripture"), then you should beware, because, ". . .for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2Cor. 11:14)"; and just like he had Adam and Eve believing that GOD was holding out on them, and that they were needing more than GOD had already provided for them, he can and will do the same to you and me.

Maybe all you really need is to, "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:8)"; because after all, it is written: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with allspiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph. 1:3)"

crossnote
Apr 13th 2009, 05:31 AM
In general-
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Heb 11:6)

Perhaps you should diligently seek Him and not the annointing. If it is of Him it may be part of the reward.
As an aside,doesn't 'annointing' speak of being put into service and not just some type of power grab?

Windmill2000
Apr 13th 2009, 07:47 AM
Thanks for those replies.

I can surely run with a lot of the things said.

Sometimes I do feel that I have lost "The Joy of my Salvation".

And yes I do feel that at one time I carried Gods anointing on my life. Perhaps as has been posted I need to "draw nigh" unto God.

Many thanks.

Nobunaga
Apr 13th 2009, 08:45 AM
Thanks for those replies.

I can surely run with a lot of the things said.

Sometimes I do feel that I have lost "The Joy of my Salvation".

And yes I do feel that at one time I carried Gods anointing on my life. Perhaps as has been posted I need to "draw nigh" unto God.

Many thanks.

You will always have the joy of salvation, even when things are at their worst you can comfort yourself by knowing this life is but a vapor and you will be with the Lord when you die.

Perhaps now it is time to pick up your cross and start suffering with Christ !

you wont have the strength or the heart for it, but thats the beauty of our faith ! we just present the vessels and ask the Lord to fill it and He does all the work :)

THOM
Apr 13th 2009, 08:53 AM
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with :idea:all:idea: spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph. 1:3)"





Apologies all around; I totally forgot to point out (in my initial post) that one little bitty word that I enlarged and underlined above.

If you're/we're IN CHRIST, and CHRIST is "in heavenly places", maybe we should realize where we really, Truly, and already are. . .and be and conduct ourselves accordingly.:pp

EagleWatch
Apr 14th 2009, 01:20 AM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.
I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.
Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.
I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.
What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.
Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Sounds to me God is truly speaking to you Windmill---I pray this will help

The Breaker Anointing:

Isaiah 10: 27 It shall come to pass in that day that his burden will be taken away from your shoulder, and his yoke from your neck, and the yoke will be destroyed because of the anointing oil.

It is the anointing that will break us through and give us the victory. One of the oils of this season is spikenard. Spikenard represents extravagant adoration and intimacy with Jesus, which will produce resurrection power. John 12:1-7 records the account of Mary anointing Jesus for His burial with the costly oil of spikenard.

The root word for spikenard means: having the power of persuading, producing belief (faith) and a faithfulness that can be relied upon. Anointing that produces the gift of faith. (1 Corinthians 12:9)

The oil (spikenard) that Mary anointed Jesus with did not represent death; it represented resurrection power (victory over death, hell and the grave).

Purpose for Victory:

The purpose for these personal victories is to liberate God's people so that they can be used in the battle for the soul of America.

These are perilous times that we live in, and God is preparing the warriors of the morning to wage war in the heavenlies against the thrones that Satan has established over this land. The battle is at hand, and the people of God are about to rise up and take the victory. The anointing of the breaker is upon us, and victory is assured.

May God give us this fresh oil so that His resurrection power may rest upon us. The battle is the Lord's, but we are His battle axes. Let God arise and His enemies be scattered!

Windmill2000
Apr 14th 2009, 09:05 PM
Thank you EagleWatch

EagleWatch
Apr 14th 2009, 11:16 PM
Thank you EagleWatch

Most welcome Wind--May the Lord refresh you with a stronger Anointing!

BHS
Apr 16th 2009, 01:11 AM
Windmill2000,

I do not doubt “fresh anointing”, although I think a better term might be “times of refreshing”. How do these come – through coming into the presence of the Lord – after having repented and receiving forgiveness of sins.

Acts 3:17-26

¶ "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18 "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. 22 "Moses said, 'THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. 23 'And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.' 24 "And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. 25 "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.' 26 "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

Long-time Christians do seek times of refreshing. How we obtain that other than repenting of our sins and turning back to the Lord for His guidance and strength may vary.

For me “times of refreshing” comes through prayer and worship. They also come from Bible study when God gives greater insight and more understanding of His Word.

Speaking to the Israelites, they were told in Deut 4:29 – that in the latter days –

"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.”

2 Chronicles 15:2b

“the LORD is with you when you are with Him. And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him;”

Psalm 27:4-8

“One thing I have asked from the LORD, that I shall seek: That I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the LORD And to meditate in His temple. 5 For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle; In the secret place of His tent He will hide me; He will lift me up on a rock. 6 And now my head will be lifted up above my enemies around me, And I will offer in His tent sacrifices with shouts of joy; I will sing, yes, I will sing praises to the LORD. 7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice, And be gracious to me and answer me. 8 When You said, "Seek My face," my heart said to You, "Your face, O LORD, I shall seek."

Psalm 40:16

“Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; Let those who love Your salvation say continually, "The LORD be magnified!"

Psalm 105:4

“Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face continually.

As another has said -- seek the Giver and not the gift and His anointing will come to you to bless others and He will see that you, too, are blessed.

God bless you,
BHS

Windmill2000
Apr 16th 2009, 08:23 AM
That was very encouraging BHS

Aliosias
May 26th 2009, 04:18 PM
Luke 4:18,19 - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because He has anointed me;
He has sent me to announce good news to the poor,
to proclaim release for prisioners and recovery of sight for the blind,
to let the broken victims go free,
to proclaim the year of the lords favor.

Jesus' concern for mankind was applauded. His Humility was revered, but it was the anointing that released the supernatural. And it was the supernatural invasion of God Himself that was rejected by the religions leaders.

This anointing is actually the person of the Holy Spirit upon someone to equip them for supernatural endeavors.

To fulfill His mission, Jesus needed the Holy Spirt; and that mission, with all it's objectives, was to finish the Father's work. If the Son of God was that reliant upon the anointing, His behavior should clarify our need for the Holy Spirit's presence upon us to do what the Father has assigned.

ZAB
May 26th 2009, 06:40 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Well, the Bible encourages us to "walk in the Spirit" (Gal 5:16). It teaches us to "build up our most holy faith" and to "keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 19-21) by praying in the Holy Ghost. It also speaks of "times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord " (Acts 3:19). This word for "refreshing" means, "revival, a recovery of breath". This may be what you are referring to by a "fesh anointing".

I would encourage you to read Isaiah 52:1-10.
The solution to spiritual apathy and dullness is repentance, prayer and communion with the presence of God, in His Word and in worship.
Paul prayed for Timothy that "the Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit" (2 Tim 4:22). He also wrote, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen" (2 Cor 13:14).

Aliosias
Jun 3rd 2009, 05:04 AM
1 Corinthians 1:5 - That in every thing you are enriched by Him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge.


Every time we confess God's word Jesus' enrichment ministry adds another grain of faith, another bit of anointing, to our faith and to our words.

Jesusinter
Jun 3rd 2009, 03:40 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

It will cost you $10,000 USD and you will have to supply your own bottle of extra virgin olive oil.

MarleVVLL
Jun 3rd 2009, 03:54 PM
Although this post is so far in the thread that it is unlikely that someone will seriously read and consider it, I'll post anyways.

The term, 'fresh anointing' is common in several denominations that believe, in essence, that the power of God is accessible today (whether it be via prophecy, healing, word of knowledge, etc etc).

The way I've heard it used is in regard to either the manifestation of the power of God in your life, or its used to be 'oil' (Matt 25) or intamacy with God.

This is the tricky part, however. You can't get the oil without the Person. Don't go trying to get this 'power' void of a deeper knowledge of the One of whom the power belongs to and who really matters. The power of God is not what really matters. Jesus is the only thing that matters. You can have the power and not have Jesus, however, if you get Jesus, the power will eventually come if you ask for it and have faith like a child.

My .02

notuptome
Jun 3rd 2009, 05:37 PM
I'm not certain what you are seeking but I would point you to Ps 51 esp vs 10 where David feeling his fellowship with Jehovah was broken as a result of his sin with Bathsheba. David was not cast away but knew in his heart that he was not close to God and it was something that had to be repaired.
John records in 1 John 1:9 the need to confess our sins to Christ who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Sin in a believers life impairs fellowship with our Lord. We are to holy as the Lord is holy.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

Jesusinter
Jun 3rd 2009, 06:36 PM
IMO you cannot manipulate God by performing any rituals.

binnov8
Jun 3rd 2009, 08:07 PM
You get the Annointing through prayer:Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Heirphoto
Jun 4th 2009, 01:26 AM
Ther Church of the Brethren (anabaptists) conducts an anointing of oil for the sick.

The Epistle of James (http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/contents/james_epistle_of) (5:14-15) instructs the elder to pray over the sick man who requests help, "anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

Typically the Pastor or a deacon will say a prayer or two and possibly a hymm while anointing the sick. The healing comes from the prayer, the anointing is more a tradition carried on still by Brethren members.

Tony

Jesusinter
Jun 4th 2009, 06:29 PM
Ther Church of the Brethren (anabaptists) conducts an anointing of oil for the sick.

The Epistle of James (http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/contents/james_epistle_of) (5:14-15) instructs the elder to pray over the sick man who requests help, "anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

Typically the Pastor or a deacon will say a prayer or two and possibly a hymm while anointing the sick. The healing comes from the prayer, the anointing is more a tradition carried on still by Brethren members.

Tony

That's a great system. Why go to a Doctor when you can get healed by God for free?
If one truly has Faith they don't need medical insurance.

Aliosias
Jun 6th 2009, 03:51 AM
Romans 1:17 - He who is put right with God shall live by faith.

Faith pleases God because it makes a way for Him to work in my life. It connects me to His supernatural anointing. Like Abraham I stagger not at the promise of God through unbelief; but am strong in faith giving glory to God!

Dani H
Jun 6th 2009, 03:54 AM
Psalm 92

1 It is good to give thanks to the LORD,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
2 To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning,
And Your faithfulness every night,
3 On an instrument of ten strings,
On the lute,
And on the harp,
With harmonious sound.
4 For You, LORD, have made me glad through Your work;
I will triumph in the works of Your hands.

5 O LORD, how great are Your works!
Your thoughts are very deep.
6 A senseless man does not know,
Nor does a fool understand this.
7 When the wicked spring up like grass,
And when all the workers of iniquity flourish,
It is that they may be destroyed forever.

8 But You, LORD, are on high forevermore.
9 For behold, Your enemies, O LORD,
For behold, Your enemies shall perish;
All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

10 But my horn You have exalted like a wild ox;
I have been anointed with fresh oil.
11 My eye also has seen my desire on my enemies;
My ears hear my desire on the wicked
Who rise up against me.

12 The righteous shall flourish like a palm tree,
He shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
13 Those who are planted in the house of the LORD
Shall flourish in the courts of our God.
14 They shall still bear fruit in old age;
They shall be fresh and flourishing,
15 To declare that the LORD is upright;
He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Bladers
Jun 7th 2009, 03:25 PM
Jesus said to the disciples, "Ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you..."
Jesus told them to wait, in other words to pray.

What were they doing? praying!

I believe they prayed 12 hours a day, for the whole 10 days. What happened? the Holy Ghost showed up.

And their lives were empowered and they shock the whole Jerusalem, But that power grew from POWER to GREAT POWER. from Addition of souls to Multiplication.

Now:
1) The word of God births prayer
2) prayer births the Glory of God which is His Presence
3) the power of God is hid in His presence, in that Presence is God's Power found.

Partaker of Christ
Jun 7th 2009, 07:25 PM
Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Luke 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Luke 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Luke 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
Luke 1:52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
Luke 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Luke 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
Luke 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Veretax
Jun 8th 2009, 02:13 AM
My response would have to begin with another question. HOw do we "Get Annointing From God" The first time? If such is even legitimate... (which I admit I'm somewhat sketical of the concept at least how I've seen it presented thus far.)

Bladers
Jun 8th 2009, 03:58 AM
My response would have to begin with another question. HOw do we "Get Annointing From God" The first time? If such is even legitimate... (which I admit I'm somewhat sketical of the concept at least how I've seen it presented thus far.)

The Anointing is the power of God in-action.

The Anointing comes upon a believer when the Holy Ghost descends upon them.
This happens only through prayer.

Jesus gave a promise to the disciple and to every believer; "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you".

What did the disciple do to get it? The bible says; "These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication."

and the result of Prayer was the coming of the power in Acts Chapter 2.

In Acts 4, when the disciples was threatened. They went back to prayer and the result was more power. "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 4:31)

Wait, I thought Jesus promised only power. But that power increased to "Great Power" (Acts 4:33)

Veretax
Jun 8th 2009, 12:05 PM
The Anointing is the power of God in-action.

The Anointing comes upon a believer when the Holy Ghost descends upon them.
This happens only through prayer.

Jesus gave a promise to the disciple and to every believer; "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you".

What did the disciple do to get it? The bible says; "These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication."

and the result of Prayer was the coming of the power in Acts Chapter 2.

In Acts 4, when the disciples was threatened. They went back to prayer and the result was more power. "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 4:31)

Wait, I thought Jesus promised only power. But that power increased to "Great Power" (Acts 4:33)


Maybe I still don't understand, because I've always beleived that God is active in the world doing things. I don't believe he ever stops, even if it were possible to do so. Does not the bible say that God himself sustains the world?

Secondly, I'm not sure I can recall anywhere in the NT where this filling of the Holy Spirit is specifically called annointing. In fact the only places in the bible where I recall such a word are in relation to the annointing of prophets, kings and other signficant people with literal oil by say Samuel or other prophets.

Bladers
Jun 8th 2009, 12:35 PM
Maybe I still don't understand, because I've always beleived that God is active in the world doing things. I don't believe he ever stops, even if it were possible to do so. Does not the bible say that God himself sustains the world?

Secondly, I'm not sure I can recall anywhere in the NT where this filling of the Holy Spirit is specifically called annointing. In fact the only places in the bible where I recall such a word are in relation to the annointing of prophets, kings and other signficant people with literal oil by say Samuel or other prophets.

The anointing is the power of God.

Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Prophets were also anointed with the Holy anointing oil, representing the power and office of God. Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed david in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. Whenever someone was anointed with the specific Holy anointing oil formula and ceremony described in Exodus 30:22-25, the Spirit of God came upon this person, to empower him or her for a God-given task.

As you may know, the OT is always a poor exact representation of the real thing. We are no longer anointed with oil, neither was Jesus.
But we are anointed with the Holy Ghost and straight away with His Power, but only when He comes upon us.

Acts 10:38 - "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power"

This is why it says: "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me"

Now God cannot do anything without a partner, He needs a partner to accomplish his will on this earth. The Bible says nothing is impossible WITH God, it doesn't say nothing is impossible TO God. God is looking for someone to corporate with him. He is still asking the question, "Who shall go for us?"

Mark 16:20 says "...the Lord working with them", it does not say, 'the Lord working without them'. But with them and confirming the word with signs following.
When is the last time you laid hands on the sick on the streets? As a Christian, you have an office and authority over sickness and disease.

ZAB
Jun 8th 2009, 01:17 PM
Maybe I still don't understand, because I've always beleived that God is active in the world doing things. I don't believe he ever stops, even if it were possible to do so. Does not the bible say that God himself sustains the world?

Secondly, I'm not sure I can recall anywhere in the NT where this filling of the Holy Spirit is specifically called annointing. In fact the only places in the bible where I recall such a word are in relation to the annointing of prophets, kings and other signficant people with literal oil by say Samuel or other prophets.

There is a difference between God's omnipresence (Ps 139:7-11; Jer 23:23-24), and His manifest presence (Jn 14:21; Matt 18:20). In the OT, this was expressed by the Shekinah glory upon the mercy seat in the Tabernacle. Also see Exodus 33, when Moses beheld God's "afterglow".

Something similar that may help explain it is in 2 Tim 4:22, "The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit..."

2 Cor 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen."

kenramse
Jun 8th 2009, 07:12 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Since first reading your post, I have been burdened to pray for you that you would receive a fresh anointing even as God spoke to your spirit as you were driving home.

I do have some questions though:

As you were driving home, from where were you driving, Church, a Bible study, work, grocery shopping...?

Were you in a conversation with God about anything particular? Were you praying as you drove as some do, (as I do sometimes while in a routine commute)?

Are you in a position in your church, (fellowship), to minister to them or in outreach from that fellowship to the community?

May God bless you with an anointing of fresh oil.

Psa 92:1 A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:
Psa 92:2 To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night,
Psa 92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa 92:4 For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.
Psa 92:5 O LORD, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Psa 92:6 A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.
Psa 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Psa 92:8 But thou, LORD, art most high for evermore.
Psa 92:9 For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.
Psa 92:10 But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
Psa 92:11 Mine eye also shall see my desire on mine enemies, and mine ears shall hear my desire of the wicked that rise up against me.
Psa 92:12 The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Psa 92:13 Those that be planted in the house of the LORD shall flourish in the courts of our God.
Psa 92:14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing;
Psa 92:15 To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

It is a blessed thing that you have sought and are seeking understanding of what "a fresh anointing" is. This very endeavor will in itself take you into a place of fellowship with the Spirit of God that you have heretofore not known. You shall indeed experience that anointing that God is leading you to receive.

Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Look not to the left or to the right and hearken steadfastly to the Voice of the Lord as he continues to speak to you. Learn to know that Voice and cultivate the things wherein He leads you. Stand fast bearing the full armor of God as explained in Ephesians:

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

For as in Psalm 23, as David stated, that in the presence of his enemies, God prepared a table before him and anointed his head with oil that his cup was full to running over.

May God bless you as He leads you,
Ken

Firefighter
Jun 8th 2009, 08:15 PM
Let me tell you a story...

Long ago in a land far away in a small town, nestled at the bottom of a mountain, the community well ran dry. So they dug another well. It ran dry as well. This process continued until the entire town looked like swiss cheese. There were holes everywhere. You couldn't hardly walk through town without stepping into a deep well.

The town had a meeting about whether or not to dissolve their town and move somewhere that there was plenty of water. Right as the town was about to vote to close the town down a man stood up and said "When I was a child, my grandfather took me to the top of the mountain. Up on top, there was a beautiful lake with crystal clear water in it. There has to be enough water up there to supply our whole town for as long as we stay here."

The man volunteered to go to the top of the mountain and run all of the plumbing needed down to the town. Sure enough, before long, the town had fresh, pure water running from the mountain.

Then one morning, it stopped. The town called another meeting and decided to simply close the town down for good. The man went home greatly distressed. He couldn't figure out how they had gone through the entire lake's water supply. That night, he climbed the mountain and looked at the lake. It was beautiful and as full as it ever was. He was puzzled. What could it be? He climbed into the water and walked over to the drain. Leaves and limbs had covered the holes in the drain cover, so he quickly set to working on clearing the debris. He worked all night and quickly ran down the mountain to tell the good news to the town's people. The town was saved. With proper maintenance of the drain cover, the town was never lacking for water again.




Drink of this water and you will NEVER thirst again. ~ Jesus Christ

Sometimes in life, we let things from our past, situations in life, emotional scars, etc. clog up our drain covers. The water is there as it always has been, we just need to make sure we keep all of the junk out of the way so as to not impede the flow.


Hope this helps.

joztok
Jun 9th 2009, 01:43 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.
I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.
Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.
I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.
What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.
Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Well after reading other comments on this thread, I can't help but feel grieved.

"Breaker anointing?" You've got to be kidding me!

Christian's are anointed ONCE, that is when we are born again/ baptised by the Holy Ghost.

Christ was the Anointed King or Anointed One of Israel (Acts 4:26 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=4&verse=26&version=31&context=verse)) and to have this demonstrated, he was anointed not by oil (anointing actually means 'to smear') but by the authority, presence and power of the Holy Spirit. The act of smearing someone with oil was to set them apart for divine use (holy=hagioz).

That is why Jesus said: "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor..."

As Peter said:
Acts 10:37-8 "You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."

As Paul also says about the God anointing us with His Spirit:
2Corinthians 1:20-21-2 "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

Everything is given to us now that we ARE THE 'Anointed' in Christ. If we carry His Spirit in us, we carry the same titles, positions, gifts, fruits and same faith level as Christ.

At salvation we are anointed ONCE, the way Christ was at His baptism.
I would like to leave you with the amplified version of 1John 2:

But you have been anointed by [you hold a sacred appointment from, you have been given an unction from] the Holy One, and you all know [the Truth] or you know all things.I write to you not because you are ignorant and do not perceive and know the Truth, but because you do perceive and know it, and [know positively] that nothing false (no deception, no lie) is of the Truth.
Who is [such a] liar as he who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah)? He is the antichrist (the antagonist of Christ), who [habitually] denies and refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son.
No one who [habitually] denies (disowns) the Son even has the Father. Whoever confesses (acknowledges and has) the Son has the Father also.
As for you, keep in your hearts what you have heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the first dwells and remains in you, then you will dwell in the Son and in the Father [always].
And this is what He Himself has promised us--the life, the eternal [life].
I write this to you with reference to those who would deceive you [seduce and lead you astray].
But as for you, the anointing (the sacred appointment, the unction) which you received from Him abides [permanently] in you; [so] then you have no need that anyone should instruct you. But just as His anointing teaches you concerning everything and is true and is no falsehood, so you must abide in (live in, never depart from) Him [being rooted in Him, knit to Him], just as [His anointing] has taught you [to do].


Test those who encourage you seek greater anointings, fresheranointings or breaker anointings, whether they be teacher or spirit. You have THE Anointing in you, and that is all you need. We are emotional beings, so be wary that your emotions may try to get the better of you too. If you are aware in how sensationalism or hypnotism work, then you will understand the importance why people must be in control over their emotions.


If you think God told you to pursue a 'fresh anointing', keep seeking him about it and going to his word, if you don't agree with what I've written. He will speak. I've had a false Jesus visit me. The spirit's name was counterfeit. Another 'Jesus' that came at me when I was particularly was a spirit of 'lust'. It is important to test the spirits by aligning what is said to the scriptures that reveal to us the characteristics of God.



God bless!




Joztok

Firefighter
Jun 9th 2009, 02:01 PM
Great Post!

I DO have one question though...


If we carry His Spirit in us, we carry the same titles, positions, gifts, fruits and same faith level as Christ.

Jesus was God, and as such, He is the object of faith. What exactly did Christ have faith in???

joztok
Jun 9th 2009, 02:38 PM
Great Post!

I DO have one question though...

Jesus was God, and as such, He is the object of faith. What exactly did Christ have faith in???

Don't wish to de-rail the thread. But to answer your question quickly...

The substance of faith that Christ has is the same faith that is in us as born again believers. This deserves it's own thread. He spoke to the storm and then said to the disciples "Oh men of little faith..."

Under the teachings of Paul, this 'littleness' or 'lack of' seems to change now that we are IN Christ and He is IN us. Christ as God IS Faith, Christ as man demonstrated faith in God (His Father). The things he did in faith in accordance to His father is the same level of faith we can operate in. All Christian's are given the equal gift/fruit of faith, some know how to use this gift better then others though. I'm still looking into this as I type, but I feel what I've written is biblical. Point fingers at me in another thread if you think I'm wrong on this specific issue. =)


Joztok

Veretax
Jun 9th 2009, 02:53 PM
Amen Joz!

This is what I was going to allude to by asking where the anointing comes from and when. I believe the devil wants Christians to believe that they are in fact powerless, having nothing, so that they live unproductive and unfruitful lives for Christ.

Firefighter
Jun 9th 2009, 03:53 PM
I agree. I don't think the devil cares too much if you are "saved" as long as you are not doing anything for Christ.

We can discuss it in a new thread.;)

Windmill2000
Jun 10th 2009, 05:17 PM
Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Just a few thoughts of my own......

Samson was a great bible hero and he carried Gods anointing on his life.

He was a constant thorn in the flesh of the Philistines.

However at times he was away chasing women ...... Deliiah cut off his hair and he lost his anointing.... ( I'm not saying that his strength came from his hair it did not it came from God)

After she had cut his hair the enemy came to him and he went out to fight them.... he had no strength and the worst thing was that he did'nt even realise that his anointing had left him.

After years in captivity he asked god to anoint him again and He did and we all know what happened after that.

Just a thought... any ideas?

Veretax
Jun 10th 2009, 06:03 PM
Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Just a few thoughts of my own......

Samson was a great bible hero and he carried Gods anointing on his life.

He was a constant thorn in the flesh of the Philistines.

However at times he was away chasing women ...... Deliiah cut off his hair and he lost his anointing.... ( I'm not saying that his strength came from his hair it did not it came from God)

After she had cut his hair the enemy came to him and he went out to fight them.... he had no strength and the worst thing was that he did'nt even realise that his anointing had left him.

After years in captivity he asked god to anoint him again and He did and we all know what happened after that.

Just a thought... any ideas?

God used the Holy Spirit a bit differently in OT times than he does today. In OT times the Holy Spirit would move upon certain individuals that God had chosen. For Christians we are promised the Holy Spirit if we trust in Christ. It really isn't quite the same thing manifest at Pentecost or in acts.

Bladers
Jun 10th 2009, 06:44 PM
God used the Holy Spirit a bit differently in OT times than he does today. In OT times the Holy Spirit would move upon certain individuals that God had chosen. For Christians we are promised the Holy Spirit if we trust in Christ. It really isn't quite the same thing manifest at Pentecost or in acts.


That is where your mistaken, only if you are saying we are not promised the Holy Spirit like as the day of Pentecost or like in the Book of acts.

But, we are still living in the Acts of the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is still moving, saving and healing more than ever today.

Jesus said, "Ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon you, not in you, not with you" UP ON YOU!

He's with you before salvation.
He's in you at salvation.
He's on you to empower you for service, to be used of God.


The 'on you' comes after salvation, if someone consecrates themselves with constant prayer and fasting with the consumption of the Word daily. They will move in the same Anointing that the Apostles move in.

Remember Jesus prayed up to 8 hours a day, so did the Apostles.

The 'in you' comes at salvation by faith.

Veretax
Jun 11th 2009, 12:58 AM
Bladers,

Maybe your beliefs are coloring your ability to understand what I wrote, but I'll try to lay it out simply. Before Christ was the Old Testament, and God used his Spirit differently then he did after Christ. The power may be the same, in fact I think its manifestations may even be greater in the New Testament Age, but clearly not everyone had access to the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament the same way that we have since Pentecost.

I do agree the Holy Spirit is ever present within the body of Christ now, and will be till the day he comes for his church. As for how the Holy Spirit accomplishes these things, clearly we disagree on how this is done.

Firefighter
Jun 11th 2009, 08:09 PM
Remember Jesus prayed up to 8 hours a day, so did the Apostles.

How on earth could you possibly know that?!?!:o

Bladers
Jun 12th 2009, 12:44 PM
How on earth could you possibly know that?!?!:o

Look in your bible, Jesus rose up early to pray for hours. then sometimes he will pray from evening to midnight. Look in the Gospels, you will find it there.


He was a man of Fasting & Prayer!

Firefighter
Jun 12th 2009, 02:54 PM
I can't seem to find anywhere that says that Jesus and the disciples prayed for 8 hours a day...

Veretax
Jun 12th 2009, 02:58 PM
I think the issue here is that the bible doesn't always give explicit numbers of hours that Jesus or the disciples actually prayed. It lists the time of day, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all that time he was 'praying'. I'd have to really go through and investigate the details of each passage together to draw a conclusion on whether such is even justified I believe.


(Also note that I recently got in a disagreement with a friend about how long Joshua's Sun holding Still over Gibeon day actually was.)

Firefighter
Jun 12th 2009, 04:20 PM
Yeah, try putting together a timeline of the events surrounding Jesus' death...:B

revrobor
Jun 13th 2009, 03:15 AM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

"Fresh anointing" is a Pentecostal movement phrase I believe designed to get worshipers to the altar every week for some sort of special touch from the Lord. Your relationship with God is like a marriage. When you first come to Him it a "Fourth of July" thing and that lasts for awhile. Then you develop a deeper more mature love that continues for the rest of your relationship. But there are some who want the fireworks to continue throughout the relationship and constantly seek that "Fourth of July" feeling over and over. It is not promised us in Scripture and is not necessary for a loving and profitable relationship with our Lord.

Bladers
Jun 13th 2009, 01:03 PM
"Fresh anointing" is a Pentecostal movement phrase I believe designed to get worshipers to the altar every week for some sort of special touch from the Lord. Your relationship with God is like a marriage. When you first come to Him it a "Fourth of July" thing and that lasts for awhile. Then you develop a deeper more mature love that continues for the rest of your relationship. But there are some who want the fireworks to continue throughout the relationship and constantly seek that "Fourth of July" feeling over and over. It is not promised us in Scripture and is not necessary for a loving and profitable relationship with our Lord.

That is totally wrong, it is necessary and promised. Only if You want to live a life that is defeating to the kingdom of satan. But if you want to live a jello christian life that has no power, which the devil likes, then ignore what i'm going to say. But If you want to cast out devils, overcome the powers of the enemy, heal the sick and preach the gospel.

You better be empowered with the power of the Holy Spirit every day of your life. Paul gave us a daily command that you have to do on your own in prayer.

Ephesians 5:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=5&verse=18&version=9&context=verse)
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Veretax
Jun 13th 2009, 04:04 PM
That is totally wrong, it is necessary and promised. Only if You want to live a life that is defeating to the kingdom of satan. But if you want to live a jello christian life that has no power, which the devil likes, then ignore what i'm going to say. But If you want to cast out devils, overcome the powers of the enemy, heal the sick and preach the gospel.

You better be empowered with the power of the Holy Spirit every day of your life. Paul gave us a daily command that you have to do on your own in prayer.

Ephesians 5:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=5&verse=18&version=9&context=verse)
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


Ah but there you are wrong. The bible says those who are in Christ are a new creature in Christ. Can we be uncreated and then recreated in Christ over and over? Certainly not. We already have the power God has granted us, we just need to keep our eyes upon him and he will Guide us in his way.

Bladers
Jun 13th 2009, 08:24 PM
Ah but there you are wrong. The bible says those who are in Christ are a new creature in Christ. Can we be uncreated and then recreated in Christ over and over? Certainly not. We already have the power God has granted us, we just need to keep our eyes upon him and he will Guide us in his way.

I'm sorry but you are totally off the scriptures, read your bible. This has nothing to do with being a new creature.
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit. That power is promised to every believer. But you cant get it till you pray.

revrobor
Jun 13th 2009, 08:49 PM
I'm sorry but you are totally off the scriptures, read your bible. This has nothing to do with being a new creature.
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit. That power is promised to every believer. But you cant get it till you pray.

Jesus promised us all that we would have the Holy Spirit and His power. We are given that when we come to Him. There is no Scripture telling us to pray for those abilities you mention.(and we are certainly never instructed to pray to the Spirit as many pentecostals do) I would be interested to know how many dead people you have raised or how many sick people you have healed. I was under the impression that God does that (through His Spirit).

Firefighter
Jun 15th 2009, 12:29 PM
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit. That power is promised to every believer. But you cant get it till you pray.

Please show me this requirement in the Bible.

kay-gee
Jun 15th 2009, 12:46 PM
I'm sorry but you are totally off the scriptures, read your bible. This has nothing to do with being a new creature.
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit. That power is promised to every believer. But you cant get it till you pray.

My Bible tells me that there will be a whole lot of people that can do all those things, that won't be getting into heaven.

Leads me to believe that there is more to it than that.

all the best...

Bladers
Jun 15th 2009, 07:44 PM
Please show me this requirement in the Bible.

Actually, there is no requirements. Jesus said "You will receive power"...

But there is a law with God, you will not receive anything from God till you pray for it.

Jesus said; "If you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, He will give him"

Jude
Jun 15th 2009, 08:10 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/corsses2.jpg

The Lord knows the heart of man, have you any I mean "Any" un-confessed sin/sins in your life?


Jude

revrobor
Jun 15th 2009, 08:36 PM
Actually, there is no requirements. Jesus said "You will receive power"...

But there is a law with God, you will not receive anything from God till you pray for it.

Jesus said; "If you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, He will give him"

In Acts 1:8 Jesus said "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to me...........to the end of the earth". The power He refers to there is the power to be His witnesses as that is something for which we need the Spirits help and guidance. Some Pentecostals believe there is a "second baptism" evidenced by "speaking in tongues" and after which a Believer can receive spiritual gifts. However the Bible teaches that the Spirit gives these gifts "as He chooses" and that would be the Holy Spirit that already dwells within you.

Partaker of Christ
Jun 15th 2009, 11:31 PM
I'm sorry but you are totally off the scriptures, read your bible. This has nothing to do with being a new creature.
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit. That power is promised to every believer. But you cant get it till you pray.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Jesus said He never knew them, so this would mean that they were never His. If they had ever been His, then He could not say that He NEVER knew them.

Mark 9:38 John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us."
Mark 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 01:13 AM
In Acts 1:8 Jesus said "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to me...........to the end of the earth". The power He refers to there is the power to be His witnesses as that is something for which we need the Spirits help and guidance. Some Pentecostals believe there is a "second baptism" evidenced by "speaking in tongues" and after which a Believer can receive spiritual gifts. However the Bible teaches that the Spirit gives these gifts "as He chooses" and that would be the Holy Spirit that already dwells within you.

revrobor, you need to read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit... Your interpretation of the scriptures are flawed. The power of the Spirit is not a power to be a witness, it is the effect of the Power of God on you that causes you to be to a witness. When the Power of God is on your life, it will cause you to be a witness of Jesus Christ. That is exactly what happened after pentecost and thousands were saved. The only time the power comes on you is only when the holy Spirit is on you, Jesus didnt say in you. Read your BIBLE!

Also Partaker of Christ, the scriptures in Matt tells us that it is possible to walk away from the Lord after receiving the Power of the Holy Spirit and it is also dangerous.

revrobor
Jun 16th 2009, 01:28 AM
revrobor, you need to read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit... Your interpretation of the scriptures are flawed. The power of the Spirit causes you to be a witness of Jesus Christ. The only time the power comes on you is only when the holy Spirit is on you, Jesus didnt say in you. Read your BIBLE!


The Greek word en used in Acts 1:8 can be translated "in", "by" or "with". Not "on". It is a pointless argument anyway. The point is our Power comes from the Spirit. And your inference that the Spirit is not guiding me when I read my Bible is out of line.

firstpeterone
Jun 16th 2009, 01:33 AM
If you mean an 'annointing', being a meeting with the Holy Spirit like when Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit as He was baptized by John, then I think that is of God's ultimate timing and authority. On the other hand, in Luke a passage speaks about being bold and knocking and asking and being persistent.

Luke 11:11-13
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 01:38 AM
The Greek word en used in Acts 1:8 can be translated "in", "by" or "with". Not "on". It is a pointless argument anyway. The point is our Power comes from the Spirit. And your inference that the Spirit is not guiding me when I read my Bible is out of line.

Ofcourse our power comes from the Spirit, but yet we need to divide the word of God rightly.

Here are some of the scriptures telling us what happens when the Holy Spirit comes upon a person.

Judges 14:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done."

Judges 14:19
"And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house."

Judges 15:14
"And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands."

1 Samuel 10:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man."

Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"


Jesus told the disciples that the Holy Spirit is with them and shall be in them.
The in you came when Jesus breathed in them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

Then Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."

There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.

He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 11:14 AM
Ofcourse our power comes from the Spirit, but yet we need to divide the word of God rightly.

Here are some of the scriptures telling us what happens when the Holy Spirit comes upon a person.

Judges 14:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done."

Judges 14:19
"And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house."

Judges 15:14
"And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands."

1 Samuel 10:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man."

Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"


Jesus told the disciples that the Holy Spirit is with them and shall be in them.
The in you came when Jesus breathed in them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".

Then Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."

There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.

He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.


All of those versus are Old Testament history and before Christ. The coming of the Holy Spirit for the Disciples was in essence a one time event, an event that marked a drastic change in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Instead of coming upon just a few of Israel as God so moved, now we as Christians have access to the Holy Spirit because of our faith.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 11:34 AM
I am still waiting on a verse that says you have to pray for it...:B

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 01:30 PM
All of those versus are Old Testament history and before Christ. The coming of the Holy Spirit for the Disciples was in essence a one time event, an event that marked a drastic change in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Instead of coming upon just a few of Israel as God so moved, now we as Christians have access to the Holy Spirit because of our faith.

I think you missed the whole message of the post: 'The power of the Holy Spirit never comes in you as some claims, its only on you.'
Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."

There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.

He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.


I am still waiting on a verse that says you have to pray for it...

To receive anything from God you have to pray for it.
Jesus said "How much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

The discisples couldn't heal a specific man nor was able to cast out the devil in him, Jesus told them : "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." (Matthew 17:21)

When Jesus was being baptized, Did you know what he was doing? "...It came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened" (Luke 3:21)

After Jesus gave the promise that the disciples will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes on not in them. What were they doing? "These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication..." (Acts 1:14)

And again when that power increased to great power, what were they doing? "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." (Acts 4:31)

The apostles made one bold statement which is the reason for their ministry.
Acts 6:4 - "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word."

If you want to operate in the Power of the Holy Spirit that the apostles operated in, your life better be a life of prayer. Remember Cornelius? you better be a Cornelius. God filled him with his Gospel and the Holy Spirit because he was hungry and was a man of prayer. If he did not pray for it, he would have never been filled.

"Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves." (Mark 11:17)

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 01:45 PM
Acts 10:44-46 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

When did they pray?

Acts 9:17-19 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

When did Paul pray?

Partaker of Christ
Jun 16th 2009, 01:47 PM
revrobor, you need to read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit... Your interpretation of the scriptures are flawed. The power of the Spirit is not a power to be a witness, it is the effect of the Power of God on you that causes you to be to a witness. When the Power of God is on your life, it will cause you to be a witness of Jesus Christ. That is exactly what happened after pentecost and thousands were saved. The only time the power comes on you is only when the holy Spirit is on you, Jesus didnt say in you. Read your BIBLE!

Also Partaker of Christ, the scriptures in Matt tells us that it is possible to walk away from the Lord after receiving the Power of the Holy Spirit and it is also dangerous.

Hi Bladers!

I think it may be a good idea if you drop the arrogant attitude, you display in your posts.

Jesus said "I never knew you"

Jesus means what He says, that He NEVER knew them. So how can you say that He once knew them?

Are you going to tell Jesus, that He got it wrong as well?

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:05 PM
Acts 10:44-46 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

When did they pray?


Here: Acts 10:2 - "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway."




Acts 9:17-19 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

When did Paul pray?


Look closely, "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him... that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."

Ananias Laid hands and prayed over Paul..

But it also looks like you are trying to evade the fact you have to pray to receive anything from God, even salvation.

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 02:15 PM
I think you missed the whole message of the post: 'The power of the Holy Spirit never comes in you as some claims, its only on you.'
Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."

There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.

He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.

...


Curious that you insist it is upon, when in John the Word used is "receive" as in Accept. Note that this was different then how the Holy Spirit was used before Pentecost.

Lk 1:67 (NKJV)

Zacharias Prophesies of John’s Ministry

67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

Luke 1:67 (NKJV)

Lk 2:25 (NKJV)

25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

Luke 2:25 (NKJV)

Lk 2:26 (NKJV)

26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
Luke 2:26 (NKJV)

(all of the above happened before pentecost)

Jn 7:37-39 (NKJV)

37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 7:37-39 (NKJV)


The Living Water is the Holy Spirit which comes and resides within us.

Jn 14:26 (NKJV)

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 14:26 (NKJV)

this he speaks foreshadowing what happened at Pentecost

Jn 20:21-25 (NKJV)

21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

John 20:21-25 (NKJV)


But according to the other gospels and acts they were not baptized with the Spirit until Pentecost see:

Lk 24:49 (NKJV)

Mark 16:19; Acts 1:9

49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Luke 24:49 (NKJV)

I am inclined to believe that Jesus was telling them to receive the Holy Spirit, but this was not when it came, because jesus said:


Jn 14:16-21 (NKJV)

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 14:16-21 (NKJV)

Since jesus had not yet gone to his father, the Comforter could not yet have come. He came 40 days after the ascencion on Pentecost as we know.


Ac 1:5 (NKJV)

5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:5 (NKJV)

Ac 1:8 (NKJV)

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 1:8 (NKJV)

Ac 1:16 (NKJV)

16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus;
Acts 1:16 (NKJV)

Ac 2:4 (NKJV)

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:4 (NKJV)


So in conclusion the Holy Spirit comes within you at the moment of Salvation now as seen in Acts. It was only the apostles who had to pray and wait 40 days the rest seem to have received it when they were baptized by the Apostles (and in some occasions when they laid hands on them.)

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 02:16 PM
Ever here of "prooftexting"?

Acts 3:3-7 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!" So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong.

When did he pray?

You are making assumptions that these people prayed. You have yet to provide a single scripture that actually states that these people prayed for the Holy Spirit or anything else for that matter.




But it also looks like you are trying to evade the fact you have to pray to receive anything from God, even salvation.

Please provide a single scripture anywhere in the Bible that directly says that you must pray for salvation.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:17 PM
Hi Bladers!

I think it may be a good idea if you drop the arrogant attitude, you display in your posts.

Jesus said "I never knew you"

Jesus means what He says, that He NEVER knew them. So how can you say that He once knew them?

Are you going to tell Jesus, that He got it wrong as well?

Sorry about the attitude, But that verse are one of the mysteries of God.
We already know that devil can not cast out devil.
We also know we can only cast out devil by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

This tells us that the person had a relationship with God to get the Power before later on walked away.

The mystery is Jesus telling them i never knew you.

Hebrews 6:4-6

4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 02:20 PM
It is generally not a good practice to declare a scripture that is in conflict with your personal theology "one of the mysteries of God." When you find a scripture that counters your beliefs, you either need to come up with a viable explaination of the scripture OR change your beliefs.

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 02:28 PM
I agree with Urban. Christ is clearly saying he never knew them. Never, meaning that they were never him. I don't know how more absolute the Lord could have been on what he meant. Now one thing to perhaps take into mind is that people will say they did X or Y (fill in the blank, cast out demons, built great buildings, whatever) they will say they did these things in his name, but Christ knows the truth, and it is not these things which grant someone eternal life, not only this, but there is such a thing as a fraud. People who make a show of doing certain things, when in fact they have done nothing of the sort.

I believe that is who Christ is talking about, people who fool themselves, maybe even try to fool the 'elect' if you will, yet God is not fooled about who they really are.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 02:33 PM
I agree with Urban.

There's a miracle right there... and I didn't even ask for it!:lol:



:rofl:

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:33 PM
Please provide a single scripture anywhere in the Bible that directly says that you must pray for salvation.

Lol my brother, Eternal Life is a gift. First you must define what prayer is....

You have to ask Jesus to come into your heart to save you and you have to repent and confess your sins. To me, i think that is prayer...


So in conclusion the Holy Spirit comes within you at the moment of Salvation now as seen in Acts. It was only the apostles who had to pray and wait 40 days the rest seem to have received it when they were baptized by the Apostles (and in some occasions when they laid hands on them.)

The disciples were saved when Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit, and He came and dwelt in them.

Look, Jesus said: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

He dwells with you before salvation, to bring you into salvation.
Jesus told them that the Holy Ghost was already with them as he was speaking.

Then He said, "He shall also be in you".
He is in you to save you, the disciples received the Holy Ghost in John 20:22.

Then in Acts 1:8, Jesus talked about another experience. He said: "When He comes upon you, you will receive power. "

This was fulfilled in Acts chapter 2.

I hope everyone understands?

Partaker of Christ
Jun 16th 2009, 02:38 PM
Sorry about the attitude, But that verse are one of the mysteries of God.
We already know that devil can not cast out devil.
We also know we can only cast out devil by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

This tells us that the person had a relationship with God to get the Power before later on walked away.

The mystery is Jesus telling them i never knew you.


Hi again Bladers!

It is not a mystery.
There is power and authority in the name of Jesus Christ.

They cast out demons, in His name.

A perhaps poor anology:

There is authority in the name of the law.
If I see someone doing wrong, and I tell them to stop in the name of the law, then I am calling on the name of that authority.

That does not mean that I am a police officer, or that the police force know me.

Or take copyright law.
I can control and protect my IP rights, useing that law.

Have to go!!

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:39 PM
I agree with Urban. Christ is clearly saying he never knew them. Never, meaning that they were never him. I don't know how more absolute the Lord could have been on what he meant. Now one thing to perhaps take into mind is that people will say they did X or Y (fill in the blank, cast out demons, built great buildings, whatever) they will say they did these things in his name, but Christ knows the truth, and it is not these things which grant someone eternal life, not only this, but there is such a thing as a fraud. People who make a show of doing certain things, when in fact they have done nothing of the sort.

I believe that is who Christ is talking about, people who fool themselves, maybe even try to fool the 'elect' if you will, yet God is not fooled about who they really are.

The fact is that they did cast out demons, prophesied, and probably healed the sick. Jesus never denied that.

and no one can do that with out the Power of the Holy Spirit. That is a fact!

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 02:40 PM
The disciples were saved when Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit, and He came and dwelt in them.

Look, Jesus said: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

He dwells with you before salvation, to bring you into salvation.
Jesus told them that the Holy Ghost was already with them as he was speaking.

Then He said, "He shall also be in you".
He is in you to save you, the disciples received the Holy Ghost in John 20:22.

Then in Acts 1:8, Jesus talked about another experience. He said: "When He comes upon you, you will receive power. "

This was fulfilled in Acts chapter 2.

I hope everyone understands?

I am not confident on pinpointing exactly when the majority of the disciples were "Saved". I'm not sure if their faith existed when they were called, after they were called, before or after Calvary, or if it was not until they saw him ascended and believed.

I'm not sure it necessarily matters as to when it happened, but this is something I've penned down to try and get a better understanding on when I get to the Gospels later this year in my reading.

Just figured I'd throw that out there, that its an area I am slightly confused upon. However, even if they were saved before Pentecost or Cavalry, the current manifestation of the Holy Spirit did not appear until Pentecost. (Although he certainly did give authority to them to do certain things while he was alive)

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:41 PM
Hi again Bladers!

It is not a mystery.
There is power and authority in the name of Jesus Christ.

They cast out demons, in His name.

A perhaps poor anology:

There is authority in the name of the law.
If I see someone doing wrong, and I tell them to stop in the name of the law, then I am calling on the name of that authority.

That does not mean that I am a police officer, or that the police force know me.

Or take copyright law.
I can control and protect my IP rights, useing that law.

Have to go!!

Sorry, But you can only cast of demons by the Power of the Holy Spirit, not by your authority as a christian or by using the name of Jesus.
We see in the scriptures those who tried to do that without the Power of the Spirit, but failed badly.

The power of the Holy Spirit is not a name authority, its a power, its tangible, knowable, feelable. Its the power of God

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 02:44 PM
You have to ask Jesus to come into your heart to save you

Again, where is scripture to support that?


I hope you are at least able to see the intent of my posts to you. I am challenging your presuppositions that either cause you to ignore scriptures or add to them. This is a dangerous thing to do. Simply read the scriptures, don't add to or take away from them, especially when forming doctrine from them.

There seems to be several things that you have formed doctrine around that is simply not to be found in the bible, then, based on those presuppositions, you chastise a preacher publicly. When you are called to task and asked to provide scripture, you choose to ignore posts or you try to stretch scripture to fit into your theology.

Please do not think that I am attacking you, as that is not my intent.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:48 PM
I am not confident on pinpointing exactly when the majority of the disciples were "Saved". I'm not sure if their faith existed when they were called, after they were called, before or after Calvary, or if it was not until they saw him ascended and believed.

I'm not sure it necessarily matters as to when it happened, but this is something I've penned down to try and get a better understanding on when I get to the Gospels later this year in my reading.

Just figured I'd throw that out there, that its an area I am slightly confused upon. However, even if they were saved before Pentecost or Cavalry, the current manifestation of the Holy Spirit did not appear until Pentecost. (Although he certainly did give authority to them to do certain things while he was alive)

Actually John 20:21 happened after cavalry, after the resurrection. The bible says in Romans 8:9 that you cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit.

Partaker of Christ
Jun 16th 2009, 02:50 PM
Sorry, But you can only cast of demons by the Power of the Holy Spirit, not by your authority as a christian or by using the name of Jesus.
We see in the scriptures those who tried to do that without the Power of the Spirit, but failed badly.

The power of the Holy Spirit is not a name authority, its a power, its tangible, knowable, feelable. Its the power of God

The Holy Spirit acts in the name of Christ.

Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

The disciples went out in His name casting out demons and healing the sick etc: before the Holy Spirit had come upon them.

Luke 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
Luke 9:3 And He said to them, "Take nothing for your journey, neither a staff, nor a bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not even have two tunics apiece.
Luke 9:4 "Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that city.
Luke 9:5 "And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."
Luke 9:6 Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

Luke 9:49 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."
Luke 9:50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 02:54 PM
Again, where is scripture to support that?


I hope you are at least able to see the intent of my posts to you. I am challenging your presuppositions that either cause you to ignore scriptures or add to them. This is a dangerous thing to do. Simply read the scriptures, don't add to or take away from them, especially when forming doctrine from them.

There seems to be several things that you have formed doctrine around that is simply not to be found in the bible, then, based on those presuppositions, you chastise a preacher publicly. When you are called to task and asked to provide scripture, you choose to ignore posts or you try to stretch scripture to fit into your theology.

Please do not think that I am attacking you, as that is not my intent.

I dont even want to answer this question, but there are hundreds of scripture that tells us so. One says: "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Another says : "With mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Another says : "But as many as received him"

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 02:59 PM
Actually John 20:21 happened after cavalry, after the resurrection. The bible says in Romans 8:9 that you cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit.


But its before his Ascencion. I have always understood the following passage as saying, the Comforter would not come till he was with the Father (at his right hand we can infer from later scripture)


Jn 16:7-11 (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
John 16:7-11 (KJV)



A quick look at the interlinear and It reads as though, they would be getting/ receiving the Holy Spirit. not that they were getting it then. (at least that's how I read it)

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:00 PM
The Holy Spirit acts in the name of Christ.

Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

The disciples went out in His name casting out demons and healing the sick etc: before the Holy Spirit had come upon them.

Luke 9:1 And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to heal diseases.
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
Luke 9:3 And He said to them, "Take nothing for your journey, neither a staff, nor a bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not even have two tunics apiece.
Luke 9:4 "Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that city.
Luke 9:5 "And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."
Luke 9:6 Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

Luke 9:49 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."
Luke 9:50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."

Look and read closely please....

"he gave them power" WHAT???? POWER?????? Yea, the Power of The Spirit. The same Power he uses to cast out devils.

Matthew 12:28 - "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God"

The same power he uses to heal the sick.

Luke 5:17 - "and the power of the Lord was present to heal them."

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:08 PM
A quick look at the interlinear and It reads as though, they would be getting/ receiving the Holy Spirit. not that they were getting it then. (at least that's how I read it)

Well you are reading it wrong, Jesus gave them the Holy Ghost, that is why he breathed on them. And he said " RECEIVE YE THE HOLY GHOST", Its a now thing, present-tense.

You have to also understand that the Holy Ghost is omnipresence, and Jesus told them. "He dwells with you right now and shall be in you later on"

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:19 PM
I dont even want to answer this question, but there are hundreds of scripture that tells us so. One says: "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I know that scripture well, but where does it speak of "Jesus coming into your heart?"



Another says : "With mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Where is that one????



Another says : "But as many as received him"

I receive gifts frequently, but that does not mean I ask for them.

Keturah
Jun 16th 2009, 03:29 PM
Luke 11:13 says; If Ye then, being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the gift of the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I think I would simply ask,in faith, nothing wavering, to be filled each day, so as to walk in the spirit as your heart desires. Ask, and receive? :D :hug:

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:32 PM
I know that scripture well, but where does it speak of "Jesus coming into your heart?"




Where is that one????




I receive gifts frequently, but that does not mean I ask for them.

Hey UM,

Jesus gave you a promise, You shall receive power. He did not say if you do this, or if you pray, you will receive power.

He just said you will receive power after the Holy Ghost comes up on you. That is a definate promise.

Jesus told the disciples to wait and that is what they did. They went into the upper room and prayed till the Holy Spirit came.

But Jesus also said, "You have not because you ask not". He said "If you ask for the Holy Spirit, you will receive him"

There are three different experience, in you, with you and upon you.

with you is for conviction, In you is for salvation, Upon you is for empowerment for service, for ministry.

You will not receive the power of God till the Holy Spirit is on you. the in you and with you experience is totally different from the upon you, they have nothing to do with the Power of God.

Again i repeat: "Ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you"

Now if you think that you will receive the same level of power as the apostls and do those things that the apostles did without praying, then you are joking yourself.

The power of God is not the authority you have as a christian. The Power of God is his power, it is tangible, knowable, feelable. It is a heavenly gift to perform supernatural tasks. This is all i will say about praying and power!

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:35 PM
Where in the world did Jesus say "If you pray for the Holy Spirit you will receive him?"

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:39 PM
Where in the world did Jesus say "If you pray for the Holy Spirit you will receive him?"

Luke 11:13
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:43 PM
Thanks.

Do you believe that a person receives the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation or subsequent to salvation?

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:43 PM
I received power when I accepted Christ as my Savior and became joint heirs with Christ.

I have seen food multiplied to feed the hungry.

I have seen terminal cancer patients instantly healed.

I have seen hundreds come to Christ.

I have seen demoniacs run screaming, trying to get away.

I have seen addicts completely delivered.

I have seen miracles that brought unbelievers to their knees in tears of repentance.

BUT, none of it had to do with me or power given to me because of some "second act of grace" or an experience I had where I happened to exhibit the gifts of the Holy Spirit. All of them had everything to do with glorifying Jesus Christ.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:44 PM
Thanks.

Do you believe that a person receives the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation or subsequent to salvation?

If that was addressed to me, Yes at time of salvation. According to Romans 8:9
It is the Holy Spirit who brings the person into the knowledge of Jesus Christ

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 03:47 PM
If Jesus had already given them authority, and as you seem to attest they had the Spirit, then why did Jesus tell them to wait/tary in jerusalem until the Spirit came? Why was it necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon them again if they had already received it. (at least I think I'm understanding what you are trying to say, correct me if I'm misunderstanding)

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:47 PM
Thanks.

Do you believe that a person receives the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation or subsequent to salvation?


There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.

He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.

He thinks it is three separate events Rabbi...

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:48 PM
I received power when I accepted Christ as my Savior and became joint heirs with Christ.

I have seen food multiplied to feed the hungry.

I have seen terminal cancer patients instantly healed.

I have seen hundreds come to Christ.

I have seen demoniacs run screaming, trying to get away.

I have seen addicts completely delivered.

I have seen miracles that brought unbelievers to their knees in tears of repentance.

BUT, none of it had to do with me or power given to me because of some "second act of grace" or an experience I had where I happened to exhibit the gifts of the Holy Spirit. All of them had everything to do with glorifying Jesus Christ.

Well according to the scriptures, you dont receive power when you are saved. You receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon.

Now did these things happen through your hands or through another?

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:52 PM
Well, I believe in a second work of grace.
And a third,
and a fourth...

As a matter of fact, I'm up to work of grace # 13,847...

I will take the Holy Spirit with just about any preposition, with limited exceptions...

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:53 PM
If Jesus had already given them authority, and as you seem to attest they had the Spirit, then why did Jesus tell them to wait/tary in jerusalem until the Spirit came? Why was it necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon them again if they had already received it. (at least I think I'm understanding what you are trying to say, correct me if I'm misunderstanding)

Because the Spirit was only in them not upon them. And Jesus told them "but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

and Jesus then said, "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you".

Remember,
He is with you before salvation to CONVICT you of your sins and reveal Jesus to you.
He is in you to at salvation to SAVE you and seal you.
He is upon you for POWER

Jesus said: "he is with you, shall be in you, and will come upon you"

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:54 PM
Well according to the scriptures, you dont receive power when you are saved. You receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon.

Now did these things happen through your hands or through another?

Does it matter? It is not about us, it is about Him.

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:55 PM
The only power I see the Holy Spirit providing is the power to become the sons of God and to be witnesses.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:55 PM
He thinks it is three separate events Rabbi...

Urban and Rabbi, How many times were the Apostles filled with the Holy Spirit?

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:56 PM
As a matter of fact, I'm up to work of grace # 13,847...

NOW you're just being modest...:lol:

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:56 PM
Filling is a continuing action.

See my previous post.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 03:56 PM
Does it matter? It is not about us, it is about Him.

Well it does matter because you said it, and whoever hands it were. They would know what i'm talking about!

Acts 5:12
And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:57 PM
Urban and Rabbi, How many times were the Apostles filled with the Holy Spirit?

If they practiced what they preached, every day.

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 03:57 PM
NOW you're just being modest...:lol:

Admitting desperation, not modesty!

:saint:

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 03:59 PM
Well it does matter because you said it, and whoever hands it were. They would know what i'm talking about!

For the record, God did all of those things through me and they happened in the church that I pastor, and I have NO IDEA what you are talking about...

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 04:00 PM
Filling is a continuing action.

See my previous post.

Now when someone was filled with the Spirit in the bible, What happened?

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 04:04 PM
The only power I see the Holy Spirit providing is the power to become the sons of God and to be witnesses.

you are right, Now take a look at what Jesus meant by witnessing.

Romans 15:19
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.


1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 04:09 PM
The sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 04:12 PM
For the record, God did all of those things through me and they happened in the church that I pastor, and I have NO IDEA what you are talking about...

It is sad that you are a PASTOR and you do not know this. it is a shame:(. But this is typical of the church of Jesus Christ in the US. This is why our church is dead because we lack the Power of the Holy Spirit, nor do we have any knowledge that it even exists.

Acts 10:38
"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

Mark 5:30
"At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?""

Luke 6:19
"and the people all tried to touch him, because power was coming from him and healing them all."

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 04:16 PM
The sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

The result of the infilling of the Spirit was his POWER.

Acts 4:31&33
31 "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 04:16 PM
you are right, Now take a look at what Jesus meant by witnessing.

Romans 15:19
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.


1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,



Well, if you look at the context of Roman 15:19, you will find that abounding in hope is a demonstration of the power of the Spirit (v 13) and that the obedience of the Gentiles is demonstrated

1. by word and deed,

2. in the power of signs and wonders,
3. in the power of the Spirit

The context of 1 Cor 2 is that Paul did not speak in his own authority or power, as he came with fear and trembling, nor with persuasive oratory, but by the Spirit...

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 04:21 PM
The result of the infilling of the Spirit was his POWER.

Acts 4:31&33
31 "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

No, the evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit in Acts 4 was that they spoke the word of God with boldness. The "with great power" was the result of the unity of the congregation as demonstrated in v. 32.

According to Colossians, the result of being filled with the Spirit is that the church will sing to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, making melody in their hearts to the Lord.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 04:21 PM
Now when someone was filled with the Spirit in the bible, What happened?

John was filled "even from birth" and it caused him to be a witness.

There is no mention of what "happened" to Elizabeth.

Zechariah prophesied.

Cornelius's house spoke in tongues.

No mention of what happened to Paul other than he became a great witness of Christ.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 04:24 PM
No, the evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit in Acts 4 was that they spoke the word of God with boldness. The "with great power" was the result of the unity of the congregation as demonstrated in v. 32.

According to Colossians, the result of being filled with the Spirit is that the church will sing to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, making melody in their hearts to the Lord.


Not the evidence that i'm talking about, but the RESULT!
The reason i'm still discussing this is to show you that the Power of the Holy Spirit exists!

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 04:25 PM
Not the evidence that i'm talking about, but the RESULT!
The reason i'm still discussing this is to show you that the Power of the Holy Spirit exists!

So who denied that there is such a thing as "the power of the Holy Spirit?"

The evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit and the result of the filling of the Holy Spirit are exactly the same.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 04:29 PM
It is sad that you are a PASTOR and you do not know this. it is a shame:(. But this is typical of the church of Jesus Christ in the US. This is why our church is dead because we lack the Power of the Holy Spirit, nor do we have any knowledge that it even exists.

I am glad that I could disappoint, it is one of my giftings. :rofl:

You mis-understood me. I understand what you are saying... (I was raised in a neo-pentecostal home. I was a member of the largest pentecostal denomination in the US. I went to college at a pentecostal Bible college)... I just COMPLETELY disagree with that doctrine.

I believe in all of the gifts of the Spirit. I believe they are still in use today. I also believe that they are terribly abused by many people that think that they are better, holier, more anointed, etc. because they have had some great experience with the Holy Spirit.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 04:39 PM
The reason i'm still discussing this is to show you that the Power of the Holy Spirit exists!

What I am learning from you is this power you speak of makes you come across as...

Arrogant -


revrobor, you need to read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit...

Elitist -


I'm sorry but you are totally off the scriptures, read your bible. This has nothing to do with being a new creature.
You can be a christian and a new creature and still can't cast out devils, nor heal the sick, nor raise the dead.

you can only do those things with the Power of the Holy Spirit.

AND...

Condemning -

I
t is sad that you are a PASTOR and you do not know this. it is a shame. But this is typical of the church of Jesus Christ in the US. This is why our church is dead because we lack the Power of the Holy Spirit, nor do we have any knowledge that it even exists.


This is not the Holy Spirit that I know. The Bible speaks of one that is all about love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Let's debate scripture and quit trying to make this personal. This is ridiculous.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 05:49 PM
So who denied that there is such a thing as "the power of the Holy Spirit?"

The evidence of the filling of the Holy Spirit and the result of the filling of the Holy Spirit are exactly the same.

Urban denies that the power of the holy Spirit exists!

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 05:51 PM
This is not the Holy Spirit that I know. The Bible speaks of one that is all about love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Let's debate scripture and quit trying to make this personal. This is ridiculous.

Wait let me just say this, i never condemned any one. I'm just surprised that people lack this simple knowledge of the Holy Spirit!

Also i believe we have been talking scripture!

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 05:55 PM
Urban denies that the power of the holy Spirit exists!

He does not. That is very offensive. About as close to accusing someone of blasphemy that I have run across recently.



UrbanMissionary denies that religious magical powers exist, or that the Holy Spirit must operate within the limiting framework that you have proposed.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 06:03 PM
He does not. That is very offensive. About as close to accusing someone of blasphemy that I have run across recently.

UrbanMissionary denies that religious magical powers exist, or that the Holy Spirit must operate within the limiting framework that you have proposed.

So you believe that the true power of the Holy Spirit that created the universe is a religious magical power? No, It is the Power of God!
Finally you came out with it, that you deny the Power of the Spirit.

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 06:11 PM
So you believe that the true power of the Holy Spirit that created the universe is a religious magical power? No, It is the Power of God!
Finally you came out with it, that you deny the Power of the Spirit.

So now you insult me? Very nice.

Please point out anywhere in my posts where I denied the power of the Holy Spirit.

Please point out anywhere in UrbanMissionary's posts where he denies the power of the Holy Spirit.

The problem is that you have a finite, limited understanding of what the power of the Holy Spirit is, and your limited understanding requires you to reject any understanding of the "power of the Holy Spirit" meaning anything other than a supernatural sign or miracle, when Scripture is filled with examples of the Holy Spirit that have nothing to do with the spectacular or exciting. Your religion is getting in the way of understanding what Scripture says.

I feel sorry for you.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 06:23 PM
So now you insult me? Very nice.

Please point out anywhere in my posts where I denied the power of the Holy Spirit.

Please point out anywhere in UrbanMissionary's posts where he denies the power of the Holy Spirit.

The problem is that you have a finite, limited understanding of what the power of the Holy Spirit is, and your limited understanding requires you to reject any understanding of the "power of the Holy Spirit" meaning anything other than a supernatural sign or miracle, when Scripture is filled with examples of the Holy Spirit that have nothing to do with the spectacular or exciting. Your religion is getting in the way of understanding what Scripture says.

I feel sorry for you.

Wait, How did i insult you by saying you don't believe in something????? I still don't get it.

If i say, you don't believe in heaven, I'm i insulting you?
Look through the pages, all i have done is post scriptures.
Do not feel sorry for me because i have not seen one scripture displaying your side of the argument.

Don't get defensive when you have no scripture to support your argument with. You clearly deny the power of God that heals bodies, save souls, break bondages, that will raise you up at the last day. I believe in the Power of the Spirit that the bible talks about.

People being healed and raised from the dead is just a NANO Percentage of the Power of the Holy Spirit, it is MUCH GREATER!
We are talking about the power that put the universe together!

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 06:28 PM
Like I said, if you can read what has been written and come to that convoluted man-made religious conclusion, then I feel sorry for you.

I cited a number of Scriptures and analyzed the ones that you took out of context.

You have stated that I deny the power of the Holy Spirit. To deny the power of the Holy Spirit is heretical. You have accused me of being a heretic.

I do feel sorry for you.

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 06:35 PM
Like I said, if you can read what has been written and come to that convoluted man-made religious conclusion, then I feel sorry for you.

I cited a number of Scriptures and analyzed the ones that you took out of context.

You have stated that I deny the power of the Holy Spirit. To deny the power of the Holy Spirit is heretical. You have accused me of being a heretic.

I do feel sorry for you.

I am agreeing with RabbiKnife here. He has done nothing by try to point out how many of the scriptures you posted may well be taken out of context. Instead of considering that or refuting you've now come out and in effect called him a liar or a heretic, frankly I'm amazed how you jump from what he wrote to that conclusion.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 06:36 PM
Like I said, if you can read what has been written and come to that convoluted man-made religious conclusion, then I feel sorry for you.

I cited a number of Scriptures and analyzed the ones that you took out of context.

You have stated that I deny the power of the Holy Spirit. To deny the power of the Holy Spirit is heretical. You have accused me of being a heretic.

I do feel sorry for you.

Don't feel sorry for me, Jesus said: "Ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon you"

I believe that 100%, The bible says, "How God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with POWER", I believe that 100%.

I believe God wants to anoint(rub) HIS Power on our lives.
It is that same Power that Jesus operated in, He cleansed the leper, healed the sick, rose the dead. The same power he promised to the disciples and to you. That is the same power that is available to you and me today.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 07:10 PM
I am agreeing with RabbiKnife here. He has done nothing by try to point out how many of the scriptures you posted may well be taken out of context. Instead of considering that or refuting you've now come out and in effect called him a liar or a heretic, frankly I'm amazed how you jump from what he wrote to that conclusion.

Never take peoples accusation as the truth. see it yourself. I never called the man a liar, nor a heretic.

If he denies the power of the Holy Spirit, then he does.
There are people that deny the gifts of the Spirit
There are people that say that prophets don't exist today
They all deny the power of the Holy Spirit

I never called him a heretic, i don't think he is a heretic. He has not lied to me so he is not a liar!
I think you are just waving around in the middle looking for someone to side with.
Like the bible says, dont be thrown around by every doctrine you hear. Get it straight from the bible.

Partaker of Christ
Jun 16th 2009, 07:33 PM
Look and read closely please....

"he gave them power" WHAT???? POWER?????? Yea, the Power of The Spirit. The same Power he uses to cast out devils.

Matthew 12:28 - "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God"

The same power he uses to heal the sick.

Luke 5:17 - "and the power of the Lord was present to heal them."

Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Mark 9:38 John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us."
Mark 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.

Luke 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."

John 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
John 14:13 "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 07:35 PM
You clearly deny the power of God that heals bodies, save souls, break bondages, that will raise you up at the last day. I believe in the Power of the Spirit that the bible talks about.

You honestly have no idea of what you are talking about. You should here this man preach. You are insulting one of the best preachers I have ever heard behind a pulpit. That is the third time you have attacked a different preacher today, good job! You know nothing about this man, and yet you accuse him of denying the power of the Holy Spirit.

You have attacked Rabbi, Revrobor, and myself for no valid reason other than we have pointed out countless examples to refute your theology that you have left unanswered.

PLEASE debate the post, not the poster.

Bladers
Jun 16th 2009, 07:59 PM
That is a poor use of the word "ATTACK". if you think i attacked 3 preachers today, then so be it. You are entitled to your believes.
The fact is, this topic is still about the Power of the Holy Spirit.

This is what i have posted from the beginning, There are three biblical experience that we have as a christian.
With you
In you
Upon you

The Holy Spirit is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you after salvation to empower you.

And you cannot receive the Power of God till the Holy Spirit comes upon you, according to Acts 1:8
The with you and in you experience has nothing to do with the power of God.

Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised"

Acts 10:38
"how God anointed(to rub on) Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power"

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 08:11 PM
Let's look at what you just said...


The Holy Spirit is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.

The with you and in you experience has nothing to do with the power of God.

:o

Oh my! It is nice to know that the salvation "experience" has nothing to do with the power of God...

:o

RabbiKnife
Jun 16th 2009, 08:16 PM
Don't worry, UrbanMiss (!), perhaps you are relegated to being one of those "outer court" believers...

Firefighter
Jun 16th 2009, 08:18 PM
I might be offended at that comment. Let me think on it a while and I will get back to you.:hmm:

Veretax
Jun 16th 2009, 09:05 PM
Never take peoples accusation as the truth. see it yourself. I never called the man a liar, nor a heretic.

If he denies the power of the Holy Spirit, then he does.
There are people that deny the gifts of the Spirit
There are people that say that prophets don't exist today
They all deny the power of the Holy Spirit

I never called him a heretic, i don't think he is a heretic. He has not lied to me so he is not a liar!
I think you are just waving around in the middle looking for someone to side with.
Like the bible says, dont be thrown around by every doctrine you hear. Get it straight from the bible.

I'm not on anyone's side, except the bibles. I'm a biblicist, almost like the bereans of old, searching daily what the scriptures say. You may not have specifically called him a heritic, but as I read your posts, I too felt that you were inferring that he was. Why do you dance around what you have said? You clearly are not wanting to listen to what urban and rabbiknife have said thus far, and you reactions prove you basically content in your current belief.

I may not be a pentecostal, and I may not understand or see the power of the spirit like some have on this board, but I certainly don't deny it. However, to whom much is given, much is required I believe the bible says that. The funny thing is, when i came to this thread, I didn't understand what I thought were 'code words' you were using. This is why I began by asking the questions I did to try and understand what and why you say you believe what you believe.

It wasn't because I was having itching ears, nor was it because I wanted to be tossed to and fro as a dingy on the high seas. Far from it, It was a topic I thought that you could clarify why you believe what you believe. I know what I believe, and I don't believe anything in this thread has necessarily changed what I believed before hand. That I find myself agreeing with urban and rabbi, doesn't mean I am fence straddling or such, it simply means that I agree with them on this point. I may not agree with them on everything, heck very few preachers do I agree with even close to 90%, but at the core of this issue I do agree, and upon that agreement in truth have I posted.

I believe in seeking the truth in scripture to apply it to our lives. I do not base truth on what I have experienced, although in some cases using what we have experienced as examples of things the bible talks about can be useful, but I always start with truth, and then look around me to see truth manifest.

(I'm scratching my head now wondering if this post was even worth writing given the threads direction, but here it is. take it as you will. Seek the truth in scripture, ask for wisdom and he will grant it to you.)

Keturah
Jun 16th 2009, 09:36 PM
Where in the world did Jesus say "If you pray for the Holy Spirit you will receive him?"

Luke 11:13.......I know this was asked way back there but here is the answer.
If Ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? ;)

Jude
Jun 16th 2009, 09:49 PM
I'd like to add my two sense where is the OP?


Jude


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif

Windmill2000
Jun 19th 2009, 10:05 PM
I'd like to add my two sense where is the OP?


Jude


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/twocents.gif


I dont understand

Twin2
Jun 19th 2009, 10:11 PM
Amen, Partaker of Christ

episkopos_1
May 1st 2012, 10:28 AM
To be anointed of God means God has chosen and ordained you to do His work. Every Christian has a certain kind of anointing on their lives and this can be acquired by being faithful and committed to our maker (God).
Here are some ways in which one can get a fresh anointing:
1. By associating with great and anointed men of God.
2. By soaking in tapes, meaning to listen to Christian sermons over and over and pondering over them.
3. You should love and desire the word of God.

If you catch the anointing which is on a certain person, you will do similar things because it is the same anointing - Bishop Dag Heward-Mills from the book CATCH THE ANOINTING.
To supplement the contributions in this thread i'd highly recommend Steps to the Anointing.It definitely tackles the "How" in more than one dimension.
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www.daghewardmills.org (http://www.daghewardmills.org)

aftertheflood
May 3rd 2012, 06:16 AM
Look at a "new anointing" in the same light as you would "renewal" or revival. The crux of any of these is always found in humility and a broken heart that knows a deep need for Christ. And that always leads to repentance. And it is deep, heartfelt repentance that leads to renewal and revival for it is only the repentant heart that openly invites Christ to be Lord!

jesse
May 5th 2012, 04:06 AM
I think the only way to get a fresh anointing is to buy one from T.D. Jakes. No?

Noeb
May 5th 2012, 04:18 AM
My thoughts were......
The one that supposedly gives it, tells you to go get it?:no:
Then, instead of wondering if it's even biblical because 3 people haven't a clue, assume everyone needs one and go ask the internet people instead of the one that said you need it? :o

Revmitchell
May 5th 2012, 03:36 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

First we are to test the spirits (I John 4:1) and if it is not found in scripture then do not believe what you believe you heard. You will find it very difficult to find anything in scripture called a "fresh anointing". Your time would be better spent trying to discover how you can serve Him better.

claybevan
May 5th 2012, 06:21 PM
Thanks for those replies.

I can surely run with a lot of the things said.

Sometimes I do feel that I have lost "The Joy of my Salvation".

And yes I do feel that at one time I carried Gods anointing on my life. Perhaps as has been posted I need to "draw nigh" unto God.

Many thanks.

I think you have answered this yourself now with the help of others, perhaps the Lord sensed you were tired or maybe he has a job for you just around the corner. I don't think your word was from suspect sources but just as some others have said, read 'fresh anointing' as refreshment of his love, wisdom and strength. Exciting isn't it. And as always totally amazing that he should be concerned with our every need, even when we ourselves are unaware that we are in need. as my son used to say 'Awesome'

lindywise
Apr 18th 2014, 07:32 PM
Forgive me...I need to post in a spirit of meekness. Lord knows how many times I have blown it.

Proverbs31Woman
Apr 19th 2014, 10:45 PM
I was driving home the other night and felt God say to me that i needed A FRESH ANOINTING.

I came home and told my dear wife what had happened to me. The first thing she said was, "how do you get a fresh anointing?. Well I was stumped.

Next day I told the same thing to a good christian friend of mine and his reply was identical to my wife's.

I'm now of the belief that the words I recieved were not only for me but for our fellowship as well.

What do you think..... I would really appreciate some input and answers.

Also can anyone explain what a fresh anointing is.

Why would you need a "fresh anointing"? If you have the Holy Spirit there is not more of Him to be had. You either have Him or you don't. He does not wear off or work His way out of you. God has given you everything that you need, you do not need more power, more "anointing" or anything. You have everything that you need already.

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