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moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 02:09 PM
Someone asked me this and I am not sure how to answer...they are using KJV (though I don't think it makes any difference on this verse)

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The question is, this person thinks the 'even' means something seperate...such as there are those that believe in Jesus..receive Him and then there are those that 'believe on His name' that are also saved...as if its two different things. Right now I am thinking its not two different things but just the way the writer wrote is all. How can you believe ON a Name only and be saved without believing in the person? :hmm:

God bless

David Taylor
Apr 13th 2009, 02:48 PM
Yep, good read. You nailed it.

Unfortunately, there are folks and groups out there that get into this mumbo-jumbo deception of placing power and undue importance upon words and names only; instead of the relationship between the person and the Lord.

They find verses like this, and try to spin them into something they are not, to semmingly advance their agendas of name-gaming.

You did a good job though, of proper discernment. Salvation is a relationship and result of the heart; not of manipulations of words or spoken mantras.

slightlypuzzled
Apr 13th 2009, 02:54 PM
Ditto to all that has been said. It is a Hebraic way ( like in many Psalms) of stressing a parallel point. In this case, the 'even in His name' phrase might also stress that the believer accepts the authority of Jesus to do what He did; in this case, Jesus has an absolute mandate from God to act as He did.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 03:44 PM
Yep, good read. You nailed it.

Unfortunately, there are folks and groups out there that get into this mumbo-jumbo deception of placing power and undue importance upon words and names only; instead of the relationship between the person and the Lord.

They find verses like this, and try to spin them into something they are not, to semmingly advance their agendas of name-gaming.

You did a good job though, of proper discernment. Salvation is a relationship and result of the heart; not of manipulations of words or spoken mantras.

Ok thanks. This person seemed to be genuinely confused though and thought some people could believe in the Name of "Jesus" but not the man. :hmm: Which I don't see how is possible. I can see that in brand names of things we buy...some have to have the 'name' on their clothes, etc...that is believing in a 'name' I suppose. But a person? :confused


slightlypuzzled Ditto to all that has been said. It is a Hebraic way ( like in many Psalms) of stressing a parallel point. In this case, the 'even in His name' phrase might also stress that the believer accepts the authority of Jesus to do what He did; in this case, Jesus has an absolute mandate from God to act as He did.

Yes, just re-emphasizing the same idea phrased in another way. Now there is another person on there responding trying to explain, taking verses out of content...:cool:

Thanks for your help.

God bless

revrobor
Apr 13th 2009, 07:27 PM
Someone asked me this and I am not sure how to answer...they are using KJV (though I don't think it makes any difference on this verse)

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The question is, this person thinks the 'even' means something seperate...such as there are those that believe in Jesus..receive Him and then there are those that 'believe on His name' that are also saved...as if its two different things. Right now I am thinking its not two different things but just the way the writer wrote is all. How can you believe ON a Name only and be saved without believing in the person? :hmm:

God bless

The problem is the KJV. In the Contemporary English Version that verse reads: "Yet some people accepted Him and put their faith in Him. So He gave them the right to be the children of God".

Teke
Apr 13th 2009, 11:15 PM
Someone asked me this and I am not sure how to answer...they are using KJV (though I don't think it makes any difference on this verse)

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The question is, this person thinks the 'even' means something seperate...such as there are those that believe in Jesus..receive Him and then there are those that 'believe on His name' that are also saved...as if its two different things. Right now I am thinking its not two different things but just the way the writer wrote is all. How can you believe ON a Name only and be saved without believing in the person? :hmm:

God bless

The "even" is an added word in the KJV. "name" is His Person. As Slightlypuzzled pointed out, there are examples in the Psalms ie. Psalm 20:1

Verse 12 is individual whereas the previous verse 9 is collective.
Galatians verse 26 says it plainly, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." :)

moonglow
Apr 14th 2009, 03:08 PM
The problem is the KJV. In the Contemporary English Version that verse reads: "Yet some people accepted Him and put their faith in Him. So He gave them the right to be the children of God".

Ok thanks...that is why I don't use the KJV too often...seems to have alot of problems like this.


Teke

The "even" is an added word in the KJV. "name" is His Person. As Slightlypuzzled pointed out, there are examples in the Psalms ie. Psalm 20:1

Verse 12 is individual whereas the previous verse 9 is collective.
Galatians verse 26 says it plainly, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

Thanks!

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