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moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 03:07 PM
Every year over the Easter weekend they usually play the Ten Commandments movie with Charles Heston. I have grown up watching it and its one of my favorite things to do during this time. I realize not all of its correct by bibical standards and so while my son and I were watching it I was trying to tell him what was actually in the bible as apposed to what wasn't. From the movie Moses was found by Pharaoh’s daughter floating in the Nile River (well this part is in the bible too...lol) The princess's servant finds the Hebrew cloth he was wrapped in and hides it, though the Princess makes her swear never to tell and she raises Moses as her own son. Later in the movie this servant tells the other princess that loves Moses and wants to marry him when he becomes Pharaoh about him really being Hebrew. Now that isn't in the bible. And then Moses finds out and decides to go find his real mother and family and then joins the Hebrew slaves in their forced labor...the rest is Hollywood stuff until he goes out in the desert.

Anyway so I got to thinking ok so how did Moses find out he was Hebrew? It doesn't say in the bible. It appears from scriptures he knew he was though..it wasn't any big secrete...which seems puzzling because the whole reason he was put in the basket to start with was to save his life as Pharaoh had ordered his people to throw any Hebrew male child in the Nile to drown them. So then the Pharaoh supposedly just accepts his sister adopting a male Hebrew child? :hmm: the bible doesn't exactly say that either though...

Exodus 2
5 Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river. And her maidens walked along the riverside; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it. 6 And when she opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the baby wept. So she had compassion on him, and said, “This is one of the Hebrews’ children.”

7 Then his sister said to Pharaoh’s daughter, “Shall I go and call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for you?”
8 And Pharaoh’s daughter said to her, “Go.” So the maiden went and called the child’s mother. 9 Then Pharaoh’s daughter said to her, “Take this child away and nurse him for me, and I will give you your wages.” So the woman took the child and nursed him. 10 And the child grew, and she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter, and he became her son. So she called his name Moses, saying, “Because I drew him out of the water.”


11 Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens. And he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren.

It appears from the way this is worded that Moses knew he was Hebrew: 11 Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens.

Now we know the Princess couldn't run down to the local store and buy formula for Moses when he was a baby and feed him herself...she had to find someone to nurse him..which in this case ended up being his real mother. So I am thinking ok he would be weaned at one, one and a half then go back to the princess...he would not remember his real mother or that she was Hebrew...but I found this bible commentary that makes it appear he was with his real mother much longer then that.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ex&chapter=002
He is found by the daughter of Pharaoh, who commits him to the care of his own mother, and has him educated as her own son, When grown up, he is brought to Pharaoh's daughter, who receives him as her own child, and calls him Moses,

This just makes no sense to me.. if the real mother has him this long, why bother to have him go be adopted? how can he go live with the princess as her son when he is 'grown up'? He is obviously safe from being killed by this point. Of course he would have the great advance of being educated by royalty and not have to work as a slave...

So at any rate I guess my questions are...how did he find out he was Hebrew? Was he really possibly with his own mother for so many years like that? That would explain him knowing he was Hebrew but it doesn't explain why the Pharaoh, so intent on reducing the numbers of the Hebrews, would allow his sister to bring a Hebrew into their home and to be raised as one of theirs. Anyone know?

Thanks.

God bless

Ta-An
Apr 13th 2009, 03:11 PM
His eyes...???
There is a saying : Blood is thicker than water :idea:

I dunno moonglow i am guessing :D

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 03:20 PM
Without knowing Egyptian protocol in these matters, I really don't know what being Hebrew would affect someone in the heirarchy that Moshe was in. Also, I think he was in his late 40's or 50's when he fled Egypt after he killed the Egyptian and buried him in the sand. (I haven't seen one movie or show that depicts this Biblically).

So the 'reduction' of the Hebrews took place almost a half of a century before Moshe killed the Egyptian. Do we even know if it was the same Pharoah the Moshe dealt with?

As far as Moshe being Hebrew, I don't think that fact was hidden from him. Why should it be?

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE=keck553;2043563]Without knowing Egyptian protocol in these matters, I really don't know what being Hebrew would affect someone in the heirarchy that Moshe was in.

The Hebrews were the lowest...the slaves of the Egyptians...I think it would have a major effect. They were despised and treated terribly.



Also, I think he was in his late 40's or 50's when he fled Egypt after he killed the Egyptian and buried him in the sand. (I haven't seen one movie or show that depicts this Biblically).

The bible commentary I read thinks about age 40.


So the 'reduction' of the Hebrews took place almost a half of a century before Moshe killed the Egyptian. Do we even know if it was the same Pharoah the Moshe dealt with?

It doesn't say but this Pharoah wanted to kill Moses for what he did.
Exodus 2
15 When Pharaoh heard of this matter, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian; and he sat down by a well.

I am not sure what difference it makes whether it was the same Pharaoh or not...they all seemed to run things the same way...rather ruthlessly.


As far as Moshe being Hebrew, I don't think that fact was hidden from him. Why should it be?

As a little child his life could have been in danger and little children aren't very good at keeping secret. We don't know how long the killing of male children went on. It says his real mother and father hid him until he was three months old then felt they could no longer keep him safe, so put him in the basket on the Nile to save him.

There are just gaps in the story that I know sometimes are filled in, in other parts of the bible...so wondering if anyone knew is all.


ACCM His eyes...???
There is a saying : Blood is thicker than water

I dunno moonglow i am guessing

I don't know either. If the Hebrews had different colored eyes I just don't see how the Egyptians would accept Moses at all. Seems like they would have demanded he be put with the other Hebrews and work as a slave. :hmm:

God bless

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 04:09 PM
Since there is no Biblical answer we'll just have to take it on faith. Not that difficult considering we put faith in God for eternal life.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 04:19 PM
Since there is no Biblical answer we'll just have to take it on faith. Not that difficult considering we put faith in God for eternal life.

There might be a bibical answer though...there are others that know the bible better then I do and know where these scriptures are...that is why I asked.

Second...what am I suppose to take on faith? :confused


God bless

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 04:25 PM
True, there are some who know Scripture better than both of us, however they will have to use Sripture to show themselves approved.

I still don't think I know enough about Egyptuan culture and protocol to make a blanket statement that just because the Hebrews were in forced labor that meant Moses should have also been 'hated.' I don't know enough about that period of Egyptian culture to assume that connection. Obviously a Pharoah knew he was a Hebrew when he returned and petitioned him to release the Hebrews. Why didn't Pharoah just him Moses and Aaron killed right then and there, in the first encounter? Why did he put up with them? After all, they were Hebrews, the lowest of the low, so why all the bother?

I meant take it on faith that Moshe knew he was Hebrew. That's all.

manichunter
Apr 13th 2009, 04:28 PM
When he looked in a mirror and saw a reflection of himself, then saw his first Hebrew slave. :lol: LOL

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 04:38 PM
Perhaps if the O/P had this thread moved to Contro, Fenris would have an answer?

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 05:14 PM
Every year over the Easter weekend they usually play the Ten Commandments movie with Charles Heston. I realize not all of its correct by bibical standards and so while my son and I were watching it I was trying to tell him what was actually in the bible as apposed to what wasn't.
Hi Moonglow,
Ohh ! that brings back memories, I remember doing the same with my daughters some 30 odd years ago, goes to show how old the film is I guess.

Anyway,What a good question ! How did Mosses know he was Hebrew ?
I think he was son of Amraam and Jochebed a Levite ,Exodus 6:20 ,but other than that I don't know, but I'll phone a friend, Lol. He's a Rabbi so I guess he will know.
There'll probably be something by Rashi or Maimonides , Lol.
I'll post back as soon as poss.

God bless,
djh22.

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 05:24 PM
He is found by the daughter of Pharaoh, who commits him to the care of his own mother, and has him educated as
her own son, When grown up, he is brought to Pharaoh's daughter, who receives him as her own child, and calls
him Moses,

This just makes no sense to me.. if the real mother has him this long, why bother to have him go be adopted? how can he go
live with the princess as her son when he is 'grown up'? He is obviously safe from being killed by this point. Of course he
would have the great advance of being educated by royalty and not have to work as a slave...

So at any rate I guess my questions are...how did he find out he was Hebrew? Was he really possibly with his own mother
for so many years like that? That would explain him knowing he was Hebrew but it doesn't explain why the Pharaoh, so
intent on reducing the numbers of the Hebrews, would allow his sister to bring a Hebrew into their home and to be raised as
one of theirs. Anyone know?


If you recall, the real mother was hired to nurse him to a grown age. With that in mind, did the princess even realize this was Moses real mother? Would the real mother even be offered wages had it been known she was the real mother?


Exodus 2:7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?


Notice whom it was that said this to Pharaoh's daughter. Was it not Moses' sister? Would not Moses' sister recognize Moses' mother, since this would be her mother also? And could this not be the reason she chose this particular Hebrew woman out of all the Hebrew women, because it was her and Moses' mother?


Notice verse 4.

Exodus 2:4 And his sister stood afar off, to wit what would be done to him.


So, between Moses' mother and sister, it would seem obvious that one or both would eventually tell him of his Hebrew roots.


Since I'm not 100% certain my conclusions are on the right track, this is basically food for thought.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 05:36 PM
True, there are some who know Scripture better than both of us, however they will have to use Sripture to show themselves approved.

I still don't think I know enough about Egyptuan culture and protocol to make a blanket statement that just because the Hebrews were in forced labor that meant Moses should have also been 'hated.' I don't know enough about that period of Egyptian culture to assume that connection. Obviously a Pharoah knew he was a Hebrew when he returned and petitioned him to release the Hebrews. Why didn't Pharoah just him Moses and Aaron killed right then and there, in the first encounter? Why did he put up with them? After all, they were Hebrews, the lowest of the low, so why all the bother?

I meant take it on faith that Moshe knew he was Hebrew. That's all.

I think I phrased my question wrong...of course at some point Moses knew...obviously. I meant to ask how did he find out.

And yes but the time Moses went back and talked to the Pharaoh saying, let my people go, it was obvious he was Hebrew.


manichunter When he looked in a mirror and saw a reflection of himself, then saw his first Hebrew slave


dingy...:cool::lol:



djh22
Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by moonglow
Every year over the Easter weekend they usually play the Ten Commandments movie with Charles Heston. I realize not all of its correct by bibical standards and so while my son and I were watching it I was trying to tell him what was actually in the bible as apposed to what wasn't.
Hi Moonglow,
Ohh ! that brings back memories, I remember doing the same with my daughters some 30 odd years ago, goes to show how old the film is I guess.

Anyway,What a good question ! How did Mosses know he was Hebrew ?
I think he was son of Amraam a Levite ,but other than that I don't know, but I'll phone a friend, Lol. He's a Rabbi so I guess he will know.
There'll probably be something by Rashi or Maimonides , Lol.
I'll post back as soon as poss.

God bless,
djh22.

Thanks...the question is...how did he find out he was Hebrew since he was raised by the Egyptian Princess?


divaDIf you recall, the real mother was hired to nurse him to a grown age. With that in mind, did the princess even realize this was Moses real mother? Would the real mother even be offered wages had it been known she was the real mother?


Exodus 2:7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?


Notice whom it was that said this to Pharaoh's daughter. Was it not Moses' sister? Would not Moses' sister recognize Moses' mother, since this would be her mother also? And could this not be the reason she chose this particular Hebrew woman out of all the Hebrew women, because it was her and Moses' mother?


Notice verse 4.

Exodus 2:4 And his sister stood afar off, to wit what would be done to him.


So, between Moses' mother and sister, it would seem obvious that one or both would eventually tell him of his Hebrew roots.


Since I'm not 100% certain my conclusions are on the right track, this is basically food for thought.

Well not if he was only there for a year or two to be nursed. As I said before most babies are weaned around age one...and usually before that they are started on baby food...don't know what passed for baby food then but I would think at the latest he would have gone to live with the Princess at age two. Even if both his sister and mother told him, at this age he wouldn't understand let alone remember. And you are probably right the Princess had no idea this was his real mother nursing him.

Thanks for the posts all. :)

God bless

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=moonglow;2043727]Well not if he was only there for a year or two to be nursed. As I said before most babies are weaned around age one...and
usually before that they are started on baby food...don't know what passed for baby food then but I would think at the latest
he would have gone to live with the Princess at age two. Even if both his sister and mother told him, at this age he wouldn't
understand let alone remember. And you are probably right the Princess had no idea this was his real mother nursing him.[QUOTE]



Even if we conclude that his mother never told him this, because he would have been too young to understand, I believe that we can conclude that his sister more than likely did, since verse 5 tells us this was one of the princess' maids, Moses' sister. With that in mind, wouldn't his sister have basically been there as he was growing up? I don't believe it's an accident that the text in this ch is making a point to focus on the sister.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 06:26 PM
Ancient Egyptians look nothing like modern Egyptians. Most ancient Egyptians would have been darker in their appearance and looked more like Africans and Arabs (the "lightening" of the Egyptian people did not occur until the Alexandrian conquest).

The Jews, however, would have been distinctly lighter in their color. We know that Moses wasn't lighter because it's noted that his wife was dark. If all the Hebrews, such as Moses, were dark, this wouldn't have been worth noting (or been a point of contention).

So, simply by looking around. Being Pharaoh's daughter's son would have allowed him a place of privilege not afforded to most Hebrews.

However, there is no doubt that simply by looking at the color of his skin as compared to that of the Egyptians he would have known, at the very least, that he wasn't an Egyptian. :)

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 06:31 PM
Thanks...the question is...how did he find out he was Hebrew since he was raised by the Egyptian Princess?

Yea ,got that moonglow,
Apart from his sister following the crib in the water etc. Ex. Chapter 2.

I think he probably wouldn't have known until The Burning Bush,
Ex.3:6. And He said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward God."

but I'll get back asap.

God bless,
djh22.

Emanate
Apr 13th 2009, 06:37 PM
maybe it was his extreme desire for bagels?

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 06:45 PM
However, there is no doubt that simply by looking at the color of his skin as compared to that of the Egyptians he would have known, at the very least, that he wasn't an Egyptian. :)


Exodus 2:19 And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock.



If it was a simple matter of skin color and other bodily features, then how was it that Moses could even be mistaken for an Egyption? As an example, could you mistake a modern day Muslim for a modern day Chinese
person? It would seem unlikely IMO, yet these shepherds mistook a Hebrew for an Egyption.

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 06:47 PM
Oyveh !! or a strong desire to open a chain of clothes shops , nice smutter ,my boy !. Lol.


djh22.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 06:56 PM
Exodus 2:19 And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock.



If it was a simple matter of skin color and other bodily features, then how was it that Moses could even be mistaken for an Egyption? As an example, could you mistake a modern day Muslim for a modern day Chinese
person? It would seem unlikely IMO, yet these shepherds mistook a Hebrew for an Egyption.

The Hebrew has a dual meaning in the word Mitsriy; one meaning simply refers to a citizen (often denoted by jewelry or clothing) and the other refers to nationality.

Considering Moses still would have had the royal garb on, or something denoting his line in Egyptian culture, they would have noted him as being an Egyptian citizen. It says nothing to his nationality or race.

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 07:54 PM
I think he probably wouldn't have known until The Burning Bush,
Ex.3:6. And He said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And
Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward God."


In order for that to be so, one would have to disregard what one learns in Exodus 2. Exodus 2 makes it clear that Moses recognized the Hebrews as his brethern.

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 08:06 PM
Considering Moses still would have had the royal garb on, or something denoting his line in Egyptian culture, they would have
noted him as being an Egyptian citizen. It says nothing to his nationality or race



I had expected this for an answer. But let's use that Chinese and Muslim person as an example. Let's say one was in Hong Kong, and a Chinese person and a Muslim person simply exchanged garments with one another. Do you think the Chinese ppl in that city would mistake the Muslim for a Chinese, and the Chinese for the Muslim, simply because they were wearing each other's garments? You stated that Moses' skin tone would have been an obvious giveway that he wasn't an Egyption, yet he was still mistaken for one. Why didn't his skintone at least cast doubts in the minds of those shepherds, irregardless of the garments Moses was or wasn't wearing?

Other than that, I fully agree with everything else you stated. I'm just not certain about the skintones, etc, being the dead giveway, that Moses wasn't an Egyption, and that this is how he figured out he was a Hebrew. Which also makes me wonder why Pharoah would even accept a Hebrew as one of his daughter's sons, knowing that he is a Hebrew.

daughter
Apr 13th 2009, 08:20 PM
Well, first of all... I guess it would it would be incredibly unlikely for his mother to wean him at a year. I know in Western society that is considered an amazingly long period to nurse your baby, but in any other society on the face of the planet, three to three and a half years is the norm. My son remembers all sorts of things from when I was nursing him, and I remember many things from that age (one or two between my first and second year, many more before I was weaned.) This is only unusual in a society where children aren't nursed naturally. So I imagine Moses remembered the woman who nursed him. ?

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 08:21 PM
I had expected this for an answer. But let's use that Chinese and Muslim person as an example. Let's say one was in Hong Kong, and a Chinese person and a Muslim person simply exchanged garments with one another. Do you think the Chinese ppl in that city would mistake the Muslim for a Chinese, and the Chinese for the Muslim, simply because they were wearing each other's garments? You stated that Moses' skin tone would have been an obvious giveway that he wasn't an Egyption, yet he was still mistaken for one. Why didn't his skintone at least cast doubts in the minds of those shepherds, irregardless of the garments Moses was or wasn't wearing?

Other than that, I fully agree with everything else you stated. I'm just not certain about the skintones, etc, being the dead giveway, that Moses wasn't an Egyption, and that this is how he figured out he was a Hebrew. Which also makes me wonder why Pharoah would even accept a Hebrew as one of his daughter's sons, knowing that he is a Hebrew.

First, there is sufficient archeological evidence to suggest that most Egyptians around this time had darker skin than they do now (or even during the later Roman period). So there is that to content with.

Second, the Hebrews descended from Abraham, who cam from Ur, further east, and subsequently would have been much lighter skinned than the Egyptians. So there is another historical fact to contend with.

Third, your analogy doesn't work because you're dealing with a culture within the culture. The case of Moses being confused for an Egyptian was by people outside of the culture, not within it. To the outsider, due to the amount of trade within Egypt, it wouldn't have been uncommon to see non-black Egyptian citizens. This would have been denoted by the clothing. So the example of a Chinese seeing a "Muslim" (which isn't a race) doesn't work because it's not someone from outside the culture.

Fourth, a better example is a Korean being raised in China, speaking Chinese, and having clothing denoting Chinese, being discovered by someone from Pakistan. To everyone in China, they're going to know that the Korean is Korean and not Chinese. To someone in Pakistan, not familiar with the differences in culture, the Korean will look Chinese.

Fifth, Pharaoh's daughter recognized immediately that the child was of Hebrew origin. The only way to have recognized this was by racial features.

What most likely occurred is that Moses was "that kid" who everyone knew was different, but said nothing of it due to his royal link. He would have known of his Hebrew heritage in a more in depth context most likely through his sister, but even without her he could have deduced it from the fact that he didn't look like all the other Egyptian kids.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=moonglow;2043727]Well not if he was only there for a year or two to be nursed. As I said before most babies are weaned around age one...and
usually before that they are started on baby food...don't know what passed for baby food then but I would think at the latest
he would have gone to live with the Princess at age two. Even if both his sister and mother told him, at this age he wouldn't
understand let alone remember. And you are probably right the Princess had no idea this was his real mother nursing him.[QUOTE]



Even if we conclude that his mother never told him this, because he would have been too young to understand, I believe that we can conclude that his sister more than likely did, since verse 5 tells us this was one of the princess' maids, Moses' sister. With that in mind, wouldn't his sister have basically been there as he was growing up? I don't believe it's an accident that the text in this ch is making a point to focus on the sister.

I don't see verse five or any other verses saying Moses sister was one of the Princess' maiden though...look:

3 But when she could no longer hide him, she took an ark of bulrushes for him, daubed it with asphalt and pitch, put the child in it, and laid it in the reeds by the river’s bank. 4 And his sister stood afar off, to know what would be done to him.

His sister was watching to see what would happen to him...apparently seeing their mother put him in the basket then put him on the Nile river.

Exodus 2
5 Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river. And her maidens walked along the riverside; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it. 6 And when she opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the baby wept. So she had compassion on him, and said, “This is one of the Hebrews’ children.”

7 Then his sister said to Pharaoh’s daughter, “Shall I go and call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for you?”

Though its not said word for word here it appears the sister followed the basket..saw the Princess find it then make the suggestion about finding someone to nurse him. There isn't anything that I can see saying she was a maiden or walking with the Princess along the river to start with. :hmm:

God bless

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 08:36 PM
In order for that to be so, one would have to disregard what one learns in Exodus 2. Exodus 2 makes it clear that Moses recognized the Hebrews as his brethern.

Yes of course Exodus 2:11, I agree.But could that have been an assumption that was confirmed by God in Exodus 3:6 ? .
The OP asked How did Moses find out he was Hebrew ?. God clearly indicates Moses ancestry in Ex.3:6.

djh22.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 08:48 PM
I had expected this for an answer. But let's use that Chinese and Muslim person as an example. Let's say one was in Hong Kong, and a Chinese person and a Muslim person simply exchanged garments with one another. Do you think the Chinese ppl in that city would mistake the Muslim for a Chinese, and the Chinese for the Muslim, simply because they were wearing each other's garments? You stated that Moses' skin tone would have been an obvious giveway that he wasn't an Egyption, yet he was still mistaken for one. Why didn't his skintone at least cast doubts in the minds of those shepherds, irregardless of the garments Moses was or wasn't wearing?

Other than that, I fully agree with everything else you stated. I'm just not certain about the skintones, etc, being the dead giveway, that Moses wasn't an Egyption, and that this is how he figured out he was a Hebrew. Which also makes me wonder why Pharoah would even accept a Hebrew as one of his daughter's sons, knowing that he is a Hebrew.

Yea...that was my point ...Pharaoh wasn't exactly a big fan of the Hebrews...other then being slaves.

Genesis 46
33 So it shall be, when Pharaoh calls you and says, ‘What is your occupation?’ 34 that you shall say, ‘Your servants’ occupation has been with livestock from our youth even till now, both we and also our fathers,’ that you may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians.”

I think we need to remember that all this started with Joseph being sold into slavery and ended up working as a slave in Egypt...then rose to be Pharaohs right hand man and was accepted in this way. Did Joseph marry an Egyptian woman?

Genesis 46
20 And to Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him.

Did the Egyptian's not allow marriage to others outside of their race?

At any rate we know none of these Pharaoh's seemed to ever like Moses at all. At some point he became aware he was a Hebrew...we just don't know when but I think it was long before the burning bush because of this verse you and others pointed out:
Exodus 2
11 Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens

Because of Joseph, who as accepted as a leader to them years earlier ...even if he was lighter in skin color maybe it caused them to be more accepting of a lighter skinned Moses..if he was lighter skinned at all that is. I have two sisters..three girls in the family..all with the same mom and dad. One sister is very light skinned and a red hair, the other has very dark brown hair and is dark skinned...I am kind in the middle. Possibly Moses had darker skin but would by today's standards still be seen as white...? My darker skinned sister said she had a girl that was half black and half white convinced she was too! She has no black features though at all...if anything she got a little of the Native American gene in her..we had a Native American great, great, etc, etc grandma...

Just thinking out loud...

God bless

Ta-An
Apr 13th 2009, 08:49 PM
Nobody mentioned : circumcision yet??

He was older than 8 days before he was put in the Nile...? not so??

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 08:55 PM
Nobody mentioned : circumcision yet??

He was older than 8 days before he was put in the Nile...? not so??


This is also another distinct possibility. However, there is nothing in the Scripture to indicate that Moses had been circumcised (though it could certainly be implied).

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 08:57 PM
This is also another distinct possibility. However, there is nothing in the Scripture to indicate that Moses had been circumcised (though it could certainly be implied).

AK, Thanks for sharing your insight on this thread.. I've learned a lot.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 08:58 PM
Well, first of all... I guess it would it would be incredibly unlikely for his mother to wean him at a year. I know in Western society that is considered an amazingly long period to nurse your baby, but in any other society on the face of the planet, three to three and a half years is the norm. My son remembers all sorts of things from when I was nursing him, and I remember many things from that age (one or two between my first and second year, many more before I was weaned.) This is only unusual in a society where children aren't nursed naturally. So I imagine Moses remembered the woman who nursed him. ?

That is a possibility.. sure. Yea we are weird country...:rolleyes: First they put huge pressure on us to nurse then make us stop so early...there are alot of other things they don't like us mom's to do here that are acceptable in other countries...like they really discourage family beds. They want that baby in his or her own room as soon as possible...I don't know what the big deal is with that here where everywhere else its not an issue. The biggest problem here though is a tiny baby being in an adult bed, they have died because of a parent rolling over on them in their sleep. :(

Even if Moses was age three...if they told him he was Hebrew could they trust him to not tell anyone in the Pharaohs home? That would be a big concern I would think since Pharaoh was the one that ordered the male babies to die...:(

I don't think as a mother I would risk telling my child...not until he was much older.

God bless

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 09:08 PM
Nobody mentioned : circumcision yet??

He was older than 8 days before he was put in the Nile...? not so??

I thought that law came later with Moses? :hmm: Not sure on that...


God bless

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 09:13 PM
I thought that law came later with Moses? :hmm: Not sure on that...


God bless

Gen 17:9-14
(9) God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.
(10) "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.
(11) "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.
(12) "And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants.
(13) "A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
(14) "But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 09:14 PM
I thought that law came later with Moses? :hmm: Not sure on that...


God bless

Nevermind...duh...yea it was way before Moses...:rolleyes:

Genesis 17:10-12

10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant.

But I wonder how well they were following these traditions as Moses neglect to circumcise his own son and his wife ended having to do it.

Exodus 4:25
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and cast it at Moses’ feet, and said, “Surely you are a husband of blood to me!”

Of course if Moses wasn't raised as a Hebrew...what they took for granted and knew by heart to do, maybe he didn't...don't know.

God bless

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 09:20 PM
This is also another distinct possibility. However, there is nothing in the Scripture to indicate that Moses had been circumcised (though it could certainly be implied).
Could it be that Moses was not circumcised and that's why he didn't circumcise his sons ?
Ex.4:24-25.

djh22.

daughter
Apr 13th 2009, 09:21 PM
Given that Hebrews, at the time, were golden skinned, as opposed to black skinned (Egyptians) Jochebed wouldn't have had to say that she was Hebrew for Moses to twig to her ethnicity.

Imagine if you were living in a society where your colour marked you out as seperate from the ruling elite. Your earliest memories are being nursed by a woman who was the same colour as you, don't you think you might consider the possibility that you weren't the same as your "peers?"

I've seen a photo of an Egyptian "funerary" statue of Joseph... very different from those of his peers. I think Hebrews looked different from Egyptians, it's that simple.

That's how Moses would have realised he wasn't the same as his Egyptian peers.

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 09:25 PM
Could it be that Moses was not circumcised and that's why he didn't circumcise his sons ?
Ex.4:24-25.

djh22.

Snap - moonglow , sorry , lol.

NotMyOwn
Apr 13th 2009, 09:29 PM
I think Moses knew he was Hebrew when in Exodus 3:6 God said to him, "I am the God of your father Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 09:38 PM
I think Moses knew he was Hebrew when in Exodus 3:6 God said to him, "I am the God of your father Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

Yea, as I said earlier, it was the first time Moses ancestry is mentioned.

Best.

djh22.

moonglow
Apr 13th 2009, 10:01 PM
Given that Hebrews, at the time, were golden skinned, as opposed to black skinned (Egyptians) Jochebed wouldn't have had to say that she was Hebrew for Moses to twig to her ethnicity.

Imagine if you were living in a society where your colour marked you out as seperate from the ruling elite. Your earliest memories are being nursed by a woman who was the same colour as you, don't you think you might consider the possibility that you weren't the same as your "peers?"

I've seen a photo of an Egyptian "funerary" statue of Joseph... very different from those of his peers. I think Hebrews looked different from Egyptians, it's that simple.

That's how Moses would have realised he wasn't the same as his Egyptian peers.

Where did you see this Egyptian "funerary" statue of Joseph? Is it on the net? I would like to see it if possible. :)

Yes of course if the Egyptian were black but all the drawing they did of themselves they don't have black skin. Some are dark skinned and some tan looking...oh that reminds me I ran into some people on youtube, that believe Moses was black. They really dislike the Ten Commandment movie because they say its a lie having a white Moses.

There is a black group of Jews they found not long ago in Africa:
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/lemba.htm

We know Jesus was probably dark skinned...not black as in African black, but not white either. But inbetween. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3958241.stm

I think if Moses stood out this much there is no way the Pharaoh would allow his sister to adopt him...that is the only problem I see in the skin color thing. That is not something that could be hidden.

God bless

keck553
Apr 13th 2009, 10:06 PM
I think Moses knew he was Hebrew when in Exodus 3:6 God said to him, "I am the God of your father Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob."

Oh man. I should have known. Of course. God knows!

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 10:13 PM
I don't see verse five or any other verses saying Moses sister was one of the Princess' maiden though...look:

3 But when she could no longer hide him, she took an ark of bulrushes for him, daubed it with asphalt and pitch,
put the child in it, and laid it in the reeds by the river’s bank. 4 And his sister stood afar off, to know what would
be done to him.

His sister was watching to see what would happen to him...apparently seeing their mother put him in the basket then put him
on the Nile river.

Exodus 2
5 Then the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river. And her maidens walked along the riverside;
and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it. 6 And when she opened it, she saw the
child, and behold, the baby wept. So she had compassion on him, and said, “This is one of the Hebrews’ children.”

7 Then his sister said to Pharaoh’s daughter, “Shall I go and call a nurse for you from the Hebrew women, that
she may nurse the child for you?”


Let's look at this a bit closer. Perhaps if I can explain it well enough, you might be able to see that the text shows one of the maidens was indeed Moses' sister.


Exodus 2:5 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it.
6 And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children.
7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?
8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.
9 And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it.
10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.



According to this particular Bible I'm using, the context of this passage is within these verses.

Verse 5 establishes the fact that her maidens are walking along by the river's side. This would seem to take place sometime later after we saw Moses' sister standing afar off.

In the same verse, verse 5, we see that she sends her maid to fetch the ark among the flags.

Then notice verse 6. Whom was she speaking to at that point? The maid that fetched the ark.

Then when we get to verse 7 we see that his sister responds back to the Pharaoh's daughter, thus suggesting a nurse of the Hebrew women.

And finally, verse 8 confirms that this maid is Moses' sister, because in verse 8 she is replying to what the sister in verse 7 suggested, and that verse 8 indentifies the speaker of verse 7 as the maid.

djh22
Apr 13th 2009, 10:43 PM
If we look at the Hebrew the mystery deepens as we go on -
Verse 7 states -
ז. וַתֹּאמֶר אֲחֹתוֹ אֶל בַּת פַּרְעֹה הַאֵלֵךְ וְקָרָאתִי לָךְ אִשָּׁה מֵינֶקֶת מִן הָעִבְרִיֹּת וְתֵינִק לָךְ אֶת הַיָּלֶד:
His sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, "Shall I go and call for you a wet nurse from the Hebrew women, so that she shall nurse the child for you?"
Verse 8 states
ח. וַתֹּאמֶר לָהּ בַּת פַּרְעֹה לֵכִי וַתֵּלֶךְ הָעַלְמָה וַתִּקְרָא אֶת אֵם הַיָּלֶד:
Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go!" So the girl went and called the child's mother.
Verse 9 states
ט. וַתֹּאמֶר לָהּ בַּת פַּרְעֹה הֵילִיכִי אֶת הַיֶּלֶד הַזֶּה וְהֵינִקִהוּ לִי וַאֲנִי אֶתֵּן אֶת שְׂכָרֵךְ וַתִּקַּח הָאִשָּׁה הַיֶּלֶד וַתְּנִיקֵהוּ:
Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child and nurse him for me, and I will give [you] your wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him.
And verse 10 states
י. וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַתְּבִאֵהוּ לְבַת פַּרְעֹה וַיְהִי לָהּ לְבֵן וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ מֹשֶׁה וַתֹּאמֶר כִּי מִן הַמַּיִם מְשִׁיתִהוּ:
The child grew up, and she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became like her son. She named him Moses, and she said, "For I drew him from the water.

So was Moses brought up by his Mother until he was handed over to the Pharaoh's daughter ? and at what age did she hand him over ?

Which might explain how in verse 11 Moses would have recognised his Hebrew brethren.

As my Rabbi friend said " Unlike myth literature where the peasant finds out he is really a Prince, here the Prince finds out he is really a peasant. " - Amazing.

So - is the answer to the OP "how did he find out he was Hebrew since he was raised by the Egyptian Princess? "
Moses knew all along that he was Hebrew ?

God bless,
djh22.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 11:14 PM
Where did you see this Egyptian "funerary" statue of Joseph? Is it on the net? I would like to see it if possible. :)

Yes of course if the Egyptian were black but all the drawing they did of themselves they don't have black skin. Some are dark skinned and some tan looking...oh that reminds me I ran into some people on youtube, that believe Moses was black. They really dislike the Ten Commandment movie because they say its a lie having a white Moses.

There is a black group of Jews they found not long ago in Africa:
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/lemba.htm

We know Jesus was probably dark skinned...not black as in African black, but not white either. But inbetween. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3958241.stm

I think if Moses stood out this much there is no way the Pharaoh would allow his sister to adopt him...that is the only problem I see in the skin color thing. That is not something that could be hidden.

God bless

In what culture does "daddy's little girl" not get what she wants?

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 11:36 PM
In what culture does "daddy's little girl" not get what she wants?


It may indeed be that simple. The text does indicate that Pharoah's daughter acknowledged the child as being Hebrew. But I'm not so sure that it can be deduced from the text that Pharoah himself was aware of this fact. Well, at least not until verse 15 anyway.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 13th 2009, 11:45 PM
It may indeed be that simple. The text does indicate that Pharoah's daughter acknowledged the child as being Hebrew. But I'm not so sure that it can be deduced from the text that Pharoah himself was aware of this fact. Well, at least not until verse 15 anyway.


That's what I was thinking. He probably had his suspicions, but again, this is his girl we're talking about. :)

divaD
Apr 13th 2009, 11:47 PM
So was Moses brought up by his Mother until he was handed over to the Pharaoh's daughter ?


That would be my conclusion.



and at what age did she hand him over ?


The text doesn't specifically tell us that. Verse 10 only tells us that the child grew. I have no clue as to how to interpret that into months, or years. Moonglow is more than likely correct that Moses was still an infant when handed back over to Pharoah's daughter. With that in mind, the sister seems to be the key here to Moses' first learning of his true roots, only IMO of course.



So - is the answer to the OP "how did he find out he was Hebrew since he was raised by the Egyptian Princess? "
Moses knew all along that he was Hebrew ?

I would think someone would have had to told him. Perhaps even his adopted mother told him. Perhaps his sister told him. And yet, perhaps he even deduced in on his own, which I see as unlikeky, yet possible I guess.



Even if I'm way off about everything, this has been an interesting thread thus far.

moonglow
Apr 14th 2009, 01:28 AM
Let's look at this a bit closer. Perhaps if I can explain it well enough, you might be able to see that the text shows one of the maidens was indeed Moses' sister.


Exodus 2:5 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it.
6 And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children.
7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?
8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.
9 And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it.
10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.



According to this particular Bible I'm using, the context of this passage is within these verses.

Verse 5 establishes the fact that her maidens are walking along by the river's side. This would seem to take place sometime later after we saw Moses' sister standing afar off.

In the same verse, verse 5, we see that she sends her maid to fetch the ark among the flags.

Then notice verse 6. Whom was she speaking to at that point? The maid that fetched the ark.

Then when we get to verse 7 we see that his sister responds back to the Pharaoh's daughter, thus suggesting a nurse of the Hebrew women.

And finally, verse 8 confirms that this maid is Moses' sister, because in verse 8 she is replying to what the sister in verse 7 suggested, and that verse 8 indentifies the speaker of verse 7 as the maid.

Apparently it depends on the bible translation you are using because mine doesn't call his sister a maiden. I don't know if Hebrews were allowed to be maidens to the Egyptians...:hmm:


djh22 If we look at the Hebrew the mystery deepens as we go on -
Verse 7 states -
ז. וַתֹּאמֶר אֲחֹתוֹ אֶל בַּת פַּרְעֹה הַאֵלֵךְ וְקָרָאתִי לָךְ אִשָּׁה מֵינֶקֶת מִן הָעִבְרִיֹּת וְתֵינִק לָךְ אֶת הַיָּלֶד:
His sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, "Shall I go and call for you a wet nurse from the Hebrew women, so that she shall nurse the child for you?"
Verse 8 states
ח. וַתֹּאמֶר לָהּ בַּת פַּרְעֹה לֵכִי וַתֵּלֶךְ הָעַלְמָה וַתִּקְרָא אֶת אֵם הַיָּלֶד:
Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go!" So the girl went and called the child's mother.
Verse 9 states
ט. וַתֹּאמֶר לָהּ בַּת פַּרְעֹה הֵילִיכִי אֶת הַיֶּלֶד הַזֶּה וְהֵינִקִהוּ לִי וַאֲנִי אֶתֵּן אֶת שְׂכָרֵךְ וַתִּקַּח הָאִשָּׁה הַיֶּלֶד וַתְּנִיקֵהוּ:
Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child and nurse him for me, and I will give [you] your wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him.
And verse 10 states
י. וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַתְּבִאֵהוּ לְבַת פַּרְעֹה וַיְהִי לָהּ לְבֵן וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ מֹשֶׁה וַתֹּאמֶר כִּי מִן הַמַּיִם מְשִׁיתִהוּ:
The child grew up, and she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became like her son. She named him Moses, and she said, "For I drew him from the water.

So was Moses brought up by his Mother until he was handed over to the Pharaoh's daughter ? and at what age did she hand him over ?

Which might explain how in verse 11 Moses would have recognised his Hebrew brethren.

As my Rabbi friend said " Unlike myth literature where the peasant finds out he is really a Prince, here the Prince finds out he is really a peasant. " - Amazing.

So - is the answer to the OP "how did he find out he was Hebrew since he was raised by the Egyptian Princess? "
Moses knew all along that he was Hebrew ?

God bless,
djh22.

Interesting. the greek doesn't call the sister a maiden either.

Well I guess we may never know exactly how he found out or why he was allowed to be part of this Egyptian royal family but only that God was watching over him. :)

I found something interesting though on this one bible commentary...totally off topic but I can do that since I started this thread...:lol: Especially read that last paragraph:

David Guzik's Commentaries (http://www.studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=ex&chapter=002)

d. Being the adopted son of Pharaoh's daughter, Moses was in the royal family - Josephus says he was heir to the throne of Egypt; and that while a young man, Moses lead the armies of Egypt in victorious battle against the Ethiopians.

i. Certainly, he was raised with both the science and learning of Egypt; Acts 7:22 says, Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and deeds. Egypt was one of the most academic and scientific societies on the earth at that time; Moses would have been instructed in geography, history, grammar and writing, literature, philosophy, music.

ii. When Moses went somewhere, he went in a princely chariot, and his guards cried out "bow the knee!" If he floated on the Nile, it was in ancient yacht, with musical accompaniment - he lived the royal life. But a well, Moses was certainly raised in the Hebrew heritage of his mother.

e. Origen's fanciful allegorical way of interpreting the Scriptures (as many do today) is illustrated by his take on this passage: Pharaoh is the devil; the male and female Hebrew children represent the animal and rational aspects of the soul. The devil wants to kill the rational character of man, but keep alive his animal character. The two midwives are the Old and New Testaments. Pharaoh wants to corrupt the midwives so that the rational character of man will be destroyed. Because the midwives are faithful, God builds houses of prayer all over the earth. Pharaoh's daughter represents the church, and gives refuge to Moses - who represents the law. The waters of the Nile are baptismal waters. When we come to the waters of baptism and take the law into our heart - the royal palaces - then the law grows up into spiritual maturity.
*******************************************
I liked that symbolism there!

God bless

divaD
Apr 14th 2009, 01:24 PM
Apparently it depends on the bible translation you are using because mine doesn't call his sister a maiden. I don't know if
Hebrews were allowed to be maidens to the Egyptians...



Perhaps this is the problem then. The KJV renders it as a maid. I didn't check it out in the Hebrew. I guess I need to do that now. And you make a good point about the Hebrews not being maiden of the Egyptions, yet at the same time tho..a Hebrew was an adopted son of one.


But anyway, I just now looked up maid and maidens in the Hebrew. These are used 3 times in that ch. All 3 times these are different Hebrew words. That's what I get for relying solely on the English transations instead of taking it to the Hebrew. Usually I would know better. I just didn't take the time to check this out in the Hebrew. I simply assumed that since this word was rendered 3 times in that ch, that they all had the same meaning.


This should at least be an important lesson for those that don't think it's important to check the meaning of English words according to the original languages. Don't ever rely on your English translations only, like I just did. It can cause one to come to the incorrect conclusions.

Zack702
Apr 14th 2009, 09:58 PM
And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

Moses knew who his brethren were.

Btw the pharoah that was in power during Moses day didnt like hebrews. But lets not forget that Joseph had saved them all!(or rather the Lord through Joseph) There was many egyptians who respected the hebrews and even saw them as equal having remembered the lord of the land who was Joseph. They were slaves because they agreed to be slaves. They were only distant from egyptians because they were shepards of cattle and that was against egyptian ways.

moonglow
Apr 14th 2009, 10:53 PM
And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

Moses knew who his brethren were.

Btw the pharoah that was in power during Moses day didnt like hebrews. But lets not forget that Joseph had saved them all!(or rather the Lord through Joseph) There was many egyptians who respected the hebrews and even saw them as equal having remembered the lord of the land who was Joseph. They were slaves because they agreed to be slaves. They were only distant from egyptians because they were shepards of cattle and that was against egyptian ways.

I don't know about that...I mean yes you are correct that Joseph saved them all from starvation but the Hebrews did not willingly become slaves and it appears here the regular Egyptians forgot about Joseph too:

Exodus 1
8 Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph. 9 And he said to his people, “Look, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we; 10 come, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they multiply, and it happen, in the event of war, that they also join our enemies and fight against us, and so go up out of the land.” 11 Therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh supply cities, Pithom and Raamses. 12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were in dread of the children of Israel. 13 So the Egyptians made the children of Israel serve with rigor. 14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage—in mortar, in brick, and in all manner of service in the field. All their service in which they made them serve was with rigor.

And if this wasn't bad enough later in this chapter all of the Egyptians helped killed any newborn male Hebrew babies...

So it really doesn't appear any of them thought fondly of the Hebrews by then...:(

I think the Hebrews had started out working for the Egyptians to pay back what they owed for the food the Egyptians gave them. Working for what you own though isn't the same as having task master put over you.

God bless

God bless

mizzdy
Apr 14th 2009, 11:12 PM
It was the blanket people, the blanket gave him away and he was later condemned as a hebrew because of the blanket, didn't ya watch the movie!!! :lol: Honestly there were probably many reason he knew he was hebrew, skin tone, hair texture, rumors. :hmm: This is an interesting thread!

keck553
Apr 14th 2009, 11:28 PM
It was the blanket people, the blanket gave him away and he was later condemned as a hebrew because of the blanket, didn't ya watch the movie!!! :lol: Honestly there were probably many reason he knew he was hebrew, skin tone, hair texture, rumors. :hmm: This is an interesting thread!

I always suspected that Cecil B Demille was older than he appeared......

Julian
Apr 15th 2009, 03:53 AM
This is also another distinct possibility. However, there is nothing in the Scripture to indicate that Moses had been circumcised (though it could certainly be implied).
Moses' parents believed God and were not cutoff from Israel. Thus they would have followed the instruction given in Genesis 17 and circumcised Moses on the 8th day. This was unique to the Hebrews and thus he would have known that he was circumcised and different than the rest (non-hebrews, including the eqyptians).

Joshua 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised : but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.

...Moses was one of them

pekoe
Apr 15th 2009, 04:25 AM
Maybe Pharaohs' daughter told Moses that he wasn't really her son.

apothanein kerdos
Apr 15th 2009, 04:34 AM
Moses' parents believed God and were not cutoff from Israel. Thus they would have followed the instruction given in Genesis 17 and circumcised Moses on the 8th day. This was unique to the Hebrews and thus he would have known that he was circumcised and different than the rest (non-hebrews, including the eqyptians).

Joshua 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised : but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.

...Moses was one of them

Ah, very good point. Looks like I was misinformed!

It seems the circumcision would be the most obvious part then, coupled with the racial differences.

Zack702
Apr 15th 2009, 05:33 AM
So it really doesn't appear any of them thought fondly of the Hebrews by then...:(

I think the Hebrews had started out working for the Egyptians to pay back what they owed for the food the Egyptians gave them. Working for what you own though isn't the same as having task master put over you.

God bless

God bless

Well take Pharoahs daughter for example. She had compassion on Moses because she knew he was meant to be put to death under pharoahs order. I'm sure she wasn't alone in her compassion. But yea there was the fair share of them that were loyal to pharoah with no compassion on others.

The reason why I say they agreed to be slaves is because after Moses led them out they kept saying things like we would be better off back at Egypt. They were very stubborn people not understanding there destiny.

They built the treasure cities for pharoah pithom and raamses. And so they became brick makers and bakers ect they worked for Egypt making them very great. And by staying there and taking the orders of the pharoah they were agreeing to be his servants / slaves however you want to put it. It's not really a bad thing it's just how it was back then.

moonglow
Apr 15th 2009, 08:39 PM
Moses' parents believed God and were not cutoff from Israel. Thus they would have followed the instruction given in Genesis 17 and circumcised Moses on the 8th day. This was unique to the Hebrews and thus he would have known that he was circumcised and different than the rest (non-hebrews, including the eqyptians).

Joshua 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised : but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.

...Moses was one of them

Ok but that begs the question of how was everyone viewing others privates to know who was circumcised and who wasn't? I would image they were pretty private in their modesty. (sorry to be so blunt..:blush:)


Zack702
Quote:

Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
So it really doesn't appear any of them thought fondly of the Hebrews by then...

I think the Hebrews had started out working for the Egyptians to pay back what they owed for the food the Egyptians gave them. Working for what you own though isn't the same as having task master put over you.

God bless


Well take Pharoahs daughter for example. She had compassion on Moses because she knew he was meant to be put to death under pharoahs order. I'm sure she wasn't alone in her compassion. But yea there was the fair share of them that were loyal to pharoah with no compassion on others.

The reason why I say they agreed to be slaves is because after Moses led them out they kept saying things like we would be better off back at Egypt. They were very stubborn people not understanding there destiny.

They built the treasure cities for pharoah pithom and raamses. And so they became brick makers and bakers ect they worked for Egypt making them very great. And by staying there and taking the orders of the pharoah they were agreeing to be his servants / slaves however you want to put it. It's not really a bad thing it's just how it was back then.

Us women tend to always have our hearts melt when it comes to babies...especially distressed crying babies...:lol: Anyway I found this interesting bible commentary on it:

The Adam Clarke Commentary (http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ex&chapter=002)
Goodly child
The text simply says ki tob hu, that he was good, which signifies that he was not only a perfect, well-formed child, but that he was very beautiful; hence the Septuagint translate the place, ιδοντεςδεαυτοαστειον, Seeing him to be beautiful, which St. Stephen interprets, ηναστειοςτω θεω, He was comely to God, or divinely beautiful. This very circumstance was wisely ordained by the kind providence of God to be one means of his preservation. Scarcely any thing interests the heart more than the sight of a lovely babe in distress. His beauty would induce even his parents to double their exertions to save him, and was probably the sole motive which led the Egyptian princess to take such particular care of him, and to educate him as her own, which in all likelihood she would not have done had he been only an ordinary child.

And yea the Hebrews wanted to go back because they thought they were going to die in the desert. People will endure alot to avoid death.

God bless

Walstib
Apr 16th 2009, 12:22 AM
I just thought I would mention that I ran across some info saying the Egyptians practiced circumcision as well. Just surfing around stuff. Don't know much about it but if true adds context to the answer.

Still may have only been done to a certain class or with specific ritual that Moses was not a part of. Pure speculation there.

moonglow
Apr 16th 2009, 03:55 PM
I just thought I would mention that I ran across some info saying the Egyptians practiced circumcision as well. Just surfing around stuff. Don't know much about it but if true adds context to the answer.

Still may have only been done to a certain class or with specific ritual that Moses was not a part of. Pure speculation there.

Interesting. Well I did read something about there being a difference with the Egyptians in regards to where they lived...upper or lower Egypt. I might have to find that again....

God bless

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