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dwgoeb
Apr 14th 2009, 01:17 AM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....

watchinginawe
Apr 14th 2009, 02:24 AM
I'm not sure what you want us to say. I'm not in the organization of churches called the Church of Christ. I am in the one Church of Christ though, which is the body of believers.

You say that you have been raised "COC" and taught likewise. Do you agree with what you have been taught? Do you believe that all other Churches, like the one your son might be attending, aren't part of the "one Church"?

God Bless!

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 02:26 AM
My understanding that the headquarters for the Church of Christ is located at,700 Prospect Ave. E. Cleveland, OH. Anyone who wishes can join this church. Also it follows the much of the doctrine of other Protestant churches such as Christmas, Easter, communion, water baptism, and maybe I have missed a few.

The church that is Christ's body that that is described in scripture is different. You can not join the church that Christ is building unless He you get put into it by spiritual baptism by Christ and only Christ.

Acts 2:47 *Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

If you can join it, the Lord is not in it since he is only building one church not churches for that adds to God's word.

There is only one faith and God says not the faith of our choice.

Ephesians 4:4 *There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 *One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Romans 16:17 *śNow I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 *For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

All churches made by man, have saved and unsaved in them. There are no unsaved in the church Christ is building since Christ's judgment is perfect, thus no unsaved in it.

2 Corinthians 6:14 *Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

1 Corinthians 1:10 *śNow I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 3:3 *For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Were you not mentioning possiable strife and division with you and your son about churches? You will have to be the judge of that. All I can do is point you to some scripture.

I hope this may help you a little, Tomlane

*Hope*
Apr 14th 2009, 03:00 AM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....

It is likely that your son is being taught more truth than what you were taught when you were raised....

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:04 AM
Hope, what are you basing your assumption on? It certainly is not a Godly judgment because your statement lacks anything to back it up. From my view is sounds like a prejudiced assumption. Perhaps you are Baptist?

Tomlane

*Hope*
Apr 14th 2009, 03:06 AM
Hope, what are you basing your assumption on? It certainly is not a Godly judgment because your statement lacks anything to back it up. From my view is sounds like a prejudiced assumption. Perhaps you are Baptist?

Tomlane

Now look who's assuming :rolleyes:

Nope, not baptist. I base my thoughts on the part of his/her quote I placed in bold. Anyone who teaches that their denomination alone has a monopoly on the truth and all others are false, is deceived.

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:22 AM
Hope, in that case I'll have to state, you are going in the right direction.

How about this: Believers should just assemble in Christ's name and not be equally yoke with unbelievers so we can have true unity and be of the same mind and judgment?

Colossians 3:17 *And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

1 Corinthians 1:10 *śNow I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:49 AM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....

Hi. I too am a member of this church. I will never ever make an apology to anyone for it. I stand firm on Gods word for all that I believe and pactice. If anyone wishes to challenge, then prove us wrong, book chapter and verse. Division in the family may be necessary as part of the walk. (Matt 10:35-36)

all the bes...

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:52 AM
I'm not sure what you want us to say. I'm not in the organization of churches called the Church of Christ. I am in the one Church of Christ though, which is the body of believers.

You say that you have been raised "COC" and taught likewise. Do you agree with what you have been taught? Do you believe that all other Churches, like the one your son might be attending, aren't part of the "one Church"?

God Bless!

It's sad that you do not belong to His Church. The apostles did!!! (romans 16:16)

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:58 AM
Now look who's assuming :rolleyes:

Nope, not baptist. I base my thoughts on the part of his/her quote I placed in bold. Anyone who teaches that their denomination alone has a monopoly on the truth and all others are false, is deceived.

The apostles certainly taught a monopoly on truth!!!! Ephesians (4:4-6)

all the best...

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 04:05 AM
Kay-gee you stated:
Hi. I too am a member of this church. I will never ever make an apology to anyone for it. I stand firm on Gods word for all that I believe and pactice. If anyone wishes to challenge, then prove us wrong, book chapter and verse. Division in the family may be necessary as part of the walk. (Matt 10:35-36)

I would like to challenge you on it provided you can get us permission to do so. I know they powers here that be, don't take to doing in anyone's belief system even if its wrong.

I'll wait to get a reply and permission and you are on.

Tomlane :D

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 04:12 AM
You have some really bad information there Tomlane. The CofC has no headquarters in Ohio or on any street in any city in any state! It's headquarters is heaven where it's head is seated at the right hand of the Father.
CofC cannot be joined. The Lord Himself adds converts to it upon obedience to the gospel. (Acts 2:47)
Baptism has been discussed at great length in other threads here so I will not exhaust it further with you.
Lords supper is an ordinance instituted by the Lord Himself (1Cor 11) as well as in all the gospels.

all the best...

watchinginawe
Apr 14th 2009, 04:45 AM
It's sad that you do not belong to His Church. The apostles did!!! (romans 16:16)

all the best...You know, go read John's epistles key-gee.

So what does it mean regarding division in the family for the original poster's son? Do you guys turn your back on them or something? Are you not allowed to love them?

teddyv
Apr 14th 2009, 05:00 AM
It's sad that you do not belong to His Church. The apostles did!!! (romans 16:16)

all the best...
This seems to be word games and rather large assumptions.

I am a Christian. I attend a church of the Christian Reformed denomination. It's ultimate authority is Christ. We have a few different interpretations on issues of lesser and non-salvific importance than the CoC (when I use CoC, I mean it as the earthly buildings filled by groups of believers).

Now, am I, or am I not a member of the Church of Christ? Or do I need to attend a CoC building with that wording on it?

crossnote
Apr 14th 2009, 05:37 AM
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
(1Co 1:12-13)

slightlypuzzled
Apr 14th 2009, 06:26 AM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....

I have been a member of, and fellowshipped with, a local 'Church of Christ' for almost forty years, I was baptized as a young man during a Jimmy Allen gospel meeting. I attended, and graduated from Abilene Christian University with degrees in New Testament and in Koine Greek. I know of quite a few who have bucked the 'accepted policy' with regards to a few points.
The one point I could never accept was the 'exclusivity doctrine'. Biblically, what one believes and how one acts on that belief is more of an indicator than what building one attends. (I still attend a CofC when I am able.)
I cannot preach a sermon without making an 'alter' call for belief and baptism; that is just my personal practice in preaching, when I preach a sermon.
The CofC, or most, accept Baptism on 1) the common apostolic practice in the Book of Acts, 2) the great commission in Matthew 28:18-20, and 3) 1 Peter 3:21-22. Based on the above, many include Baptism in the 'alter call'...
Paul, in 1 Cor. 11:16-34, gives some very stern instructions for the Lord's Supper which, from his tone, appears to have been observed regularly, but with some grave problems among the Corinthian believers. Suffice it to say, that when we partake of the Lord's Supper we are commanded by Paul to do so with introspection, prayer, and a sincere heart.
I have always suggested that one read the entire New Testament through several times in several good translations to really see the writers intent, and each particular path the Holy Spirit was leading the writer down...though all paths lead back to Jesus Christ and Him crucified and risen.
My point of observation with most Non-Denominational colleges/churches is that they are heavy on the 'Baptist' doctrine and belief; especially in the south where the Southern Baptist was one of the most influential at one time, and still packs a clout in many southern regions.

slightlypuzzled
Apr 14th 2009, 06:30 AM
You know, go read John's epistles key-gee.

So what does it mean regarding division in the family for the original poster's son? Do you guys turn your back on them or something? Are you not allowed to love them?

This is an excellent point. I have never counseled 'to just turn your back on loved ones', but many oldsters in the CofC have done just that, and they do that with a 'twist' they give to certain passages in John's Epistles. Personally, I have always counseled a prayerful reading of the New Testament Epistles through in several good translations. You have to take into account context, and emphasis in each Epistle. Love, meditative reading, and prayer go long in working through this problem...

slightlypuzzled
Apr 14th 2009, 06:40 AM
You say that you have been raised "COC" and taught likewise. Do you agree with what you have been taught? Do you believe that all other Churches, like the one your son might be attending, aren't part of the "one Church"?


Excellent points to ponder while reading the New Testament and praying about it. You must seek the whole point of view in all of the Epistles to understand the problems the writers are wrestling with.
The Book of Acts give a good historical context for most of Paul's Epistles.
On a personal note, I wrestled with the 'exclusivity doctrine' for several years after I joined the CofC. I have never used it as a point of fellowship, or way to see truth. On the flip side, there is much taught in the 'religious world' of modern Christianity and Televangelism that it's teachers will have to answer for, but that is God's prerogative to judge.

grit
Apr 14th 2009, 11:55 AM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....
Hi dwgoeb, and welcome to the board. Please forgive some of our earlier thread drama, but it kinda comes with the territory in Bible Chat. I do think members are trying to be helpful to your concerns.

I'm somewhat familiar with the COC, but just to be clear I'm a conservative Presbyterian. I've got some family members who've left the Presbyterian church and are now Baptists, and other family members who've joined the Presbyterian church after being Baptists. There was a time when what differences there are between Presbyterians and Baptists was enough for my family to forbid dating Baptists, so I can understand how these things can cause serious fractures within the family.

You ask, "what is right?", and I'm not exactly sure what your intent is. It sounds like you're wanting to make sure your son isn't going down some wayward path to destruction, which is not all that uncommon for college folk? On that issue I certainly hope he'll be ok, but I don't think the Baptists are going to corrupt him away from Christianity, though he may indeed come away with some doctrinal beliefs that are at odds with what one usually finds in the COC. Despite being called Baptists, adult baptism doesn't carry the same weight of importance for Baptists that is does for the COC. You're right, for Baptists it's more of a symbolic gesture confirming their faith before the community. I'd say it's the most important distinction between the COC and Baptists. But if your son's already been baptised, I'd guess the music issue is probably going to be the more apparent division causing the most trouble for the family (well, other than his leaving the COC). It's a matter of how one views worship and what is appropriate in worship. Let's face it, the Baptists are pretty laid back and open in this regard, and the variety and quality of Christian music can be a huge drawing card, as it's a very powerful medium.

As a Presbyterian I'm not sure I'm in a place to convince you or convict you of my considerations of errors in both COC and Baptist theology. I know it can be extremely difficult and traumatic to think one's son is lost to leaving the Church and being outside God's grace of salvation, but I think the family can go a long way toward calming the waters and sorting through the issues if they're willing to approach the Scriptures and your son with more of an open mind and reconciling spirit. Personally, and I say this as one who considers himself a conservative Christian, I think the COC can be a little too strick and dogmatic. I don't know if it comes as a surprise to you that the COC has some Presbyterian and Baptist roots, but I'd hope that might at least be some encouragement to you that all is not lost.
:hug:

shepherdsword
Apr 14th 2009, 01:46 PM
Hope, what are you basing your assumption on? It certainly is not a Godly judgment because your statement lacks anything to back it up. From my view is sounds like a prejudiced assumption. Perhaps you are Baptist?

Tomlane

Maybe it's because they teach you must be baptized in water to be saved?

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 02:27 PM
You know, go read John's epistles key-gee.

So what does it mean regarding division in the family for the original poster's son? Do you guys turn your back on them or something? Are you not allowed to love them?

I do not know the circumstances in the OP's family problems. Of course we are to love! We need to love unconditioally. The sad fact is, that people of all walks of life are going to oppose us as Christians, and we have to be prepared for that. There are going to be divisions and hurt feelings and the rest. That is part and parcel of the walk. The Bible tells us that over and over.

all the best...

Vhayes
Apr 14th 2009, 02:31 PM
I need help. I was raised COC. I have been taught there is only one Church and it is the COC. COC believes confession and baptism for the remission of sins. The Lord Supper every Sunday and no music. My son is at a non-denomination Bible College. He attends a Baptist church which I am not sure if I understand correctly except Christ into your life and the baptism is more symbolic...what is right? This is causing a split in the family....
Being a Christian has nothing to do with denomination and what church a person attends. If your sons relationship with Jesus is active and living, he could attend almost ANY church and it would not matter.

Crossnote posted the appropriate scripture above.
V

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 02:44 PM
This seems to be word games and rather large assumptions.

I am a Christian. I attend a church of the Christian Reformed denomination. It's ultimate authority is Christ. We have a few different interpretations on issues of lesser and non-salvific importance than the CoC (when I use CoC, I mean it as the earthly buildings filled by groups of believers).

Now, am I, or am I not a member of the Church of Christ? Or do I need to attend a CoC building with that wording on it?

Sorry ted. I do not see the Church referred to anywhere in the NT as "reformed". How can something the Lord is building be "reformed". Is the Lord not an adequate builder?! The true church does not need to be reformed or remade. It simply needs to be "returned" to. How is this done? By throwing out man made traditions and creeds and simply letting the Bible be the sole guide in all points of faith a worship.
The name on the door of a building has nothing to do with truth being practiced or not inside. If we abide in His commandments we are His disciples indeed. (John 8:31)
Paul simply called the churches collectively the "churches of Christ". (Romans 16:16)

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:05 PM
Maybe it's because they teach you must be baptized in water to be saved?

Who exactly is "they?"

The BIBLE teaches that you must be baptized in water to be saved!!!!

It is our mandate to teach the Biblcal gospel, not a gospel of man's creation.

all the best...

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:14 PM
I have done a pile of research on the denomination referred to as the Church of Christ. Since this Protestant denomination is very new and has already splintered I don't know if those who profess to belong to this domination are the international Church of Christ {ICC} or if they are the of the Great Reformation movement {COC}. My understanding is basically the doctrine are the same or similar and in addition to that of as many other denominations. Salvation is based on being water baptized and following Christ. A typical works program that rejects the grace of Jesus Christ. One truth they do have to some degree in thought by not in practice because of the turmoil with in the organization is the concept of one church instituted by Christ. But there is where the truth ends because following Christ is a feat no one has ever achieved except God himself.

I'll give a kind of graph here to show the history of this organization and those who have furthered its cause to show the infantile history and division with in .

Birth and Growth of the American Restoration Movement


Crossroads Era 1967 Chuck Lucas Employed at Crossroads.


1972 Kip McKean baptized


1977 Kip McKean & Roger Lamb fired by Memoral Dr. Church of Christ

Aproximatly the begining of the Boston Church of Christ began.

Aproximatly between 1984 & 85 Church Lucas was fired by the Crossroads Elders, harolding in the GREAT AMERICAN RECONSTRUCTIONS This reconstruction lasted until about 1988 or 89. This is when Crossroads disowned Kip McKean in Boston.

Kip McKean moved to Los Angles and the reast is history and from there is movement is still spreading.

I gave this brief History just show that this denomination did not get its start at Pentecost or is God the one who adds the members. My understanding is if you are water baptized they are accepted as a member and they contribute the addition as that of Christ adding that person.

Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:16 PM
Being a Christian has nothing to do with denomination and what church a person attends. If your sons relationship with Jesus is active and living, he could attend almost ANY church and it would not matter.

Crossnote posted the appropriate scripture above.
V

Wow vhayes! You could not be more wrong if you tried. If all churches were equal, then we would all be meeting together, now wouldn't we? The fact that there are so many denomiations is testimony to the fact that there is much erroneous teaching. The Lord Himself established a Church. You are a member of it or you are not. One Faith, One body, One Baptism (eph. 4:4-6)

Question for you...Does the Jesus say in Matthew 16:18...I will build 20,000 denominations...attend the church of your choice?!!!

Please do not take offense vhayes because I do not mean to offend....but I percieve you are one that reacts on emotion rather than from a position of knowledge.

all the best...

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:20 PM
shepherdsword, lol, good guess that is only a small part of it, The whole system is not of God's word as the history of the organization proves its just a new kid on the protestant block and splintered so soon since its conception.

1 John 4:6 *We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Thanks for asking Shephersword.

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:26 PM
kay-gee, Good answer and you are right there is only one church. Do you think believers are the church and are not a denomination? What is your take on that?

Do you believe you are saved by faith alone or do we have to be water baptized as the church of Christ preaches?

Tomlane

Vhayes
Apr 14th 2009, 03:28 PM
Wow vhayes. You could not be more wrong if you tried. If all churches were equal, then we would all be meeting together, now wouldn't we? The fact there are so many denomiations is testimony to the fact that there is much erroneous teaching. The Lord Himself established a Church. You are a member of it or you are not. One Faith, One body, One Baptism (eph. 4:4-6)

Question for you...Does the Jesus say in Matthew 16:18...I will build 20,000 denominations...attend the church of your choice?!!!

Please do not take offense vhayes because it do not mean to offend....but I percieve you are ne that reacts on emotion rather than from a position of knowledge.

all the best...
No offense taken. But what do you do with all the folks who place their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE your denomination existed? And please don't say it has existed since Pentecost because that is simply not the case.

I am a member of the body of Christ. That matters far more to me than whether or not I attend a Catholic mass, a Baptist service or a Methodist service. I am a member of His church which is a living thing, not a building made with brick and mortar.

I notice you did not respond to my comment regarding the relationship with Christ. Why is that? Do you honestly believe you have an "in" with God because you attend a certain church each Sunday?

I have a serious question for you and I will in no way be offended by your answer. Do you believe that even though I have been "born again" - that I have accepted Christ as my Savior and made Him Lord of my life, that I will go straight to hell because I do not (and never will) attend a Church of Christ?

Easy question - and again, no offense will be taken.

Thanks in advance -
V

ears2hear
Apr 14th 2009, 03:33 PM
Wow vhayes! You could not be more wrong if you tried. If all churches were equal, then we would all be meeting together, now wouldn't we? The fact that there are so many denomiations is testimony to the fact that there is much erroneous teaching. The Lord Himself established a Church. You are a member of it or you are not. One Faith, One body, One Baptism (eph. 4:4-6)

Question for you...Does the Jesus say in Matthew 16:18...I will build 20,000 denominations...attend the church of your choice?!!!

Please do not take offense vhayes because I do not mean to offend....but I percieve you are one that reacts on emotion rather than from a position of knowledge.

all the best...

Wow...I'm not vhayes, yet I am blown by this loveless response.:eek:

From my understanding, any denomination that says it IS the ONLY anything borders on cultish. However, I have never professed to know everything...so I will shut up now and read this thread with interest.:)

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:36 PM
I have done a pile of research on the denomination referred to as the Church of Christ. Since this Protestant denomination is very new and has already splintered I don't know if those who profess to belong to this domination are the international Church of Christ {ICC} or if they are the of the Great Reformation movement {COC}. My understanding is basically the doctrine are the same or similar and in addition to that of as many other denominations. Salvation is based on being water baptized and following Christ. A typical works program that rejects the grace of Jesus Christ. One truth they do have to some degree in thought by not in practice because of the turmoil with in the organization is the concept of one church instituted by Christ. But there is where the truth ends because following Christ is a feat no one has ever achieved except God himself.

I'll give a kind of graph here to show the history of this organization and those who have furthered its cause to show the infantile history and division with in .

Birth and Growth of the American Restoration Movement


Crossroads Era 1967 Chuck Lucas Employed at Crossroads.


1972 Kip McKean baptized


1977 Kip McKean & Roger Lamb fired by Memoral Dr. Church of Christ


Aproximatly the begining of the Boston Church of Christ began.

Aproximatly between 1984 & 85 Church Lucas was fired by the Crossroads Elders, harolding in the GREAT AMERICAN RECONSTRUCTIONS This reconstruction lasted until about 1988 or 89. This is when Crossroads disowned Kip McKean in Boston.

Kip McKean moved to Los Angles and the reast is history and from there is movement is still spreading.

I gave this brief History just show that this denomination did not get its start at Pentecost or is God the one who adds the members. My understanding is if you are water baptized they are accepted as a member and they contribute the addition as that of Christ adding that person.

Tomlane
As I have no truck or trade what so-ever with this group of which you refer (International Church of Christ), I will not comment on their behalf. There are all kinds of groups that call themselves Church of Christ. The name is from scripture. Noone can hold a patent or copyright on the name. Christ knows who His Church is. That is all that matters. His Church is the one that follows His teachings. (John 8:31).
The churches Paul is referring to in Romans 16:16 had its beginnings on Pentecost. The Lord said that even Hell would never prevail over His church. (Matt 16:18) That being the case, nothing man can do can prevent its exsistance and mission. Following this to its logical conclusion, His church has always been on Earth since Pentecost, is on this earth today, and all men may be a member of it.

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 03:53 PM
kay-gee, Good answer and you are right there is only one church. Do you think believers are the church and are not a denomination? What is your take on that?

Do you believe you are saved by faith alone or do we have to be water baptized as the church of Christ preaches?

Tomlane

Not a denominational teaching.

Jesus taught. Peter taught Paul and all the other apostles taught. First 8 centuries of the church taught it. The roman church distorted it, the reformers abandoned it. Regardless I gotta stick with Gods word on it. If I follow you, we will both fall into a ditch!!

There are threads on this forum containing hundreds if not thousands of posts on baptism. You appear to not give a tinkers darn about even studying them to find the truth, preferring to follow your own doctrine. Not much I can do for you. Sorry!

all the best...

Tomlane
Apr 14th 2009, 03:55 PM
Kay-gee, that was an biblical answer you gave and I'm so glad for that. The only thing I disagree with you is for believers in the church to follow after Christ.

When Christ was here, His mission was to offer Israel their Messiah. Under law Gentiles were not to partake of Judaism unless they were converted and were called a proselyte,

God never told the church to follow after Christ, that was for Jew only. Christ told the rich man to do that very thing, give up all he had and follow after Christ. Have you given up everything, of course not or you couldn't afford to be online.

As I said before no can follow after Christ for several reasons. One we would have to have only the nature of god so we would never sin, give away everything we have, and keep the law perfectly.

One reason we can't keep the law perfect is because we are sinners even after were are spiritually baptized, and another reason the law was nailed to the cross and the all the ordinances including water baptism we abolished. Also another reason we can't follow after Christ as because all believers have become a new creation in Christ that water can't touch. Our new man, you can't even see it or touch it, you can only see the fruit as described in
Galatians Chapter five. So you can't get the new man wet.
Also Christ baptizes with spirit not water.
Read Acts the 15th chapter and you will see there is only four things required of Gentiles to please God and water baptism and following after Christ is not listed. No long after in Paul's letters we learn neither is the Jew required by law to keep any ordinances either, not one.

If you want the scriptures I will be more then happy to provide them.

Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 14th 2009, 04:03 PM
Wow...I'm not vhayes, yet I am blown by this loveless response.:eek:

From my understanding, any denomination that says it IS the ONLY anything borders on cultish. However, I have never professed to know everything...so I will shut up now and read this thread with interest.:)

Cultish? This is nothing! Get a load of how the church was veiwed in the early century by the Jews and the Pagans!

If you honestly study Gods word, you will find there are no compromises in truth. It's God's way or the high-way!

I'm sorry if I come across as loveless or harsh. Not my intention. We are dealing with some serious issues here.

all the best...

teddyv
Apr 14th 2009, 04:16 PM
Sorry ted. I do not see the Church referred to anywhere in the NT as "reformed". How can something the Lord is building be "reformed". Is the Lord not an adequate builder?! The true church does not need to be reformed or remade. It simply needs to be "returned" to. How is this done? By throwing out man made traditions and creeds and simply letting the Bible be the sole guide in all points of faith a worship.
The name on the door of a building has nothing to do with truth being practiced or not inside. If we abide in His commandments we are His disciples indeed. (John 8:31)
Paul simply called the churches collectively the "churches of Christ". (Romans 16:16)

all the best...
I take that as a yes (I think).

slightlypuzzled
Apr 14th 2009, 05:34 PM
I am putting on my Admin hat and closing this thread until cooler heads can prevail. If the 'OP' (original poster who started the thread) has anymore questions, please start a thread in Chat to Moderators forum....peace be on all.....

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