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Esperanza32
Apr 14th 2009, 01:58 PM
Jesus was the first person to be resurrected, and we will all be resurrected when he returns again (right?).

But I'm puzzled....when Jesus appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, his body still had visible wounds from the crucifixion. I think all the gospels (except maybe Mark) mention that he had wounds in his hands and side after the resurrection. That's how the disciples were able to recognize him (at least Thomas). So, his resurrection body still bore the wounds of his death.

When we are resurrected, will we still have the wounds and scars that we've gotten in this life??? I'm thinking not just physical, but emotional and spiritual wounds too. Or was Jesus unique, and he needed to have the wounds so his disciples would believe it was really him?

Somehow I had thought that our resurrection bodies would be perfect and whole and healed, but now I'm rethinking that. What do you think? Can you think of any relevent scripture that discusses our resurrection bodies?

HisLeast
Apr 14th 2009, 02:02 PM
Assuming our eternal life actually is eternal, and is actually lived in a body, I'd have to assume people get brand new bodies. Otherwise how would people who died in wrecks and explosions get by?

I dunno. I'll worry about it if i get there. :)

David Taylor
Apr 14th 2009, 02:21 PM
Remember that Jesus was horribly beaten, whipped, scarred, gouged, and scourged also. However, his horrendous disfigurment and abuse was not mentioned, therefore it seems that his glorified body was perfect in every way, except that he retained his nail-scarred hands and feet, and speared side.

IMO, it was a poignant reminder that will last for eternity of what He did for us. He assuredly could have been completely whole, healed of ever mark...but chose to retain those specific marks.

We, on the other hand, have no reason to bear any marks from our prior life. We didn't lay our lives down for all mankind as He did.

matthew94
Apr 14th 2009, 02:50 PM
I agree with David Taylor. There is a special significance of Jesus' scars. We have every reason to believe that our resurrection bodies will not have such scars (just like Jesus likely didn't keep the majority of his wounds).

markedward
Apr 14th 2009, 05:29 PM
In the opening chapter of the Revelation, John sees a glorified Christ. If we interpret this as how Christ actually appears now (as opposed to merely being a vision), then it should be noteworthy that John makes no mention of Christ's scars, even when he looks right at Christ's hands and feet. (Revelation 1.15-16) John does make specific mention of Christ's sacrifice later on (5.6,9,12), and continues to allude to the sacrifice with his repeated use of "Lamb" to refer to Christ throughout the book, but in the specific instance in which John is looking directly at Christ's hands and feet, he is silent on whether there are scars or not. While this silence is not a proof for the absence of Christ's scars in his glorified body, it does make me lean towards them being absent.

theBelovedDisciple
Apr 14th 2009, 06:02 PM
Remember that Jesus was horribly beaten, whipped, scarred, gouged, and scourged also. However, his horrendous disfigurment and abuse was not mentioned, therefore it seems that his glorified body was perfect in every way, except that he retained his nail-scarred hands and feet, and speared side.

IMO, it was a poignant reminder that will last for eternity of what He did for us. He assuredly could have been completely whole, healed of ever mark...but chose to retain those specific marks.

We, on the other hand, have no reason to bear any marks from our prior life. We didn't lay our lives down for all mankind as He did.


Great Post.. I agree...

Awhile back there was another thread on this.. I was discussing with a poster... and this poster didn't believe that a body having nail holes and scars in it was 'glorious'...

We need to be reminded what God considers. Glorious.. most of the time what He Deems glorious is actually the opposite of what this world and its ways teach one is actually Glorious...

looking to Hebrews and the hall of fame of 'faith'.. these whom the world rejected because they were foolish or unglorious in the 'worlds eyes'...

but God tells us that the 'world was not worthy of them'..... and God considered them and 'deemed' them Glorious.. for their 'faith' in Him.. even in the midst of persecution and death..

His Ways are not our ways.. and His thoughts are not our thoughts...


and this is why the offence of the Cross and those people involved in it and around it.. is an offence to many.. its foolishness and a stumblingblock...its downright ludicrous in many eyes...

but God considers it Glorious... for its How He defeated Death, Hell and the Grave... by Nailing His Son to it.. His Son sent in the likeness of Sinful flesh... for the redemption of the soul.

As far as our bodies.. like His... not subject to sin anymore, death, disease, corruption, mortality, etc... It is Eternal... and will live forevermore with Him...

this body.. the 2nd Death will have no power over it.. nor will it be subject to it...

amen and amen..

David Taylor
Apr 14th 2009, 08:20 PM
Great Post.. I agree...

Awhile back there was another thread on this.. I was discussing with a poster... and this poster didn't believe that a body having nail holes and scars in it was 'glorious'...

We need to be reminded what God considers. Glorious.. most of the time what He Deems glorious is actually the opposite of what this world and its ways teach one is actually Glorious...



Yep, when I go to heaven, I don't want to see any of the gold-covered, jasper and diamond embelished crowns...don't want to see any silver or emerald or platinum crowns...all are worth no more to me, than a wooden nickle. What I want to see, is the blood-dried, prickly crown of thorns. That to me, is the one and only beautiful and glorious crown.

Esperanza32
Apr 15th 2009, 06:16 AM
We need to be reminded what God considers. Glorious.. most of the time what He Deems glorious is actually the opposite of what this world and its ways teach one is actually Glorious...

..

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about...Christ's wounds are glorious. They bring salvation. Are OUR wounds glorious to God? Or are our wounds just a symptom of sin and death? Are our wounds something we need to be healed and freed of, or are they something we need to embrace for God's glory?

Will I still have my wounds when I am resurrected? Will they still be present, but transformed into something glorious? Will they be all healed and gone? Will I forget I ever had them? How does that impact how I deal with them now?

Can God be glorified through our present brokenness/woundedness? How does/should the hope of resurrection impact how we live with our brokenness today?

I'm just thinking out loud...

(I think it'd be cool if my resurrection body has big bright blue wings, but I'm not counting on it.)

HisLeast
Apr 15th 2009, 01:17 PM
Well, its times when our spirit is broken that we finally give in to God and say "I'm sorry! I'll do it your way now!". In those times we see true repentance. In that respect it glorifies God.

As for physical wounds... I don't know. If my body isn't going to be of any use to me, should I make it to the here-after, what use would it be to God?

-SEEKING-
Apr 15th 2009, 01:22 PM
Jesus was the first person to be resurrected, and we will all be resurrected when he returns again (right?).

Well there are a few references in the OT of resurrections. And also Lazarus, who Jesus brought back, was also resurrected before Jesus.

As far as the scars I think those are like his distinguishing marks. Sort of like reminders.

Esperanza32
Apr 15th 2009, 01:50 PM
Just for clarification, Lazarus and others who were brought back from the dead were resuscitated, not resurrected. They eventually died again. Jesus was the first person resurrected, meaning coming back to life transformed and eternal. He was different. He's the "firstfruit" of all of us who will be resurrected when he returns.

(Someone correct me if my understanding is wrong!)

-SEEKING-
Apr 15th 2009, 02:02 PM
Just for clarification, Lazarus and others who were brought back from the dead were resuscitated, not resurrected. They eventually died again. Jesus was the first person resurrected, meaning coming back to life transformed and eternal. He was different. He's the "firstfruit" of all of us who will be resurrected when he returns.

(Someone correct me if my understanding is wrong!)

Yeah I think you're right about resurrection. I did a little more research on it. Thanks.

drew
Apr 15th 2009, 05:10 PM
I believe that Jesus' situation is not unique. In other words, I see no reason to believe that our resurrection bodies will be perfect.

I am not sure where people get the idea that everything will be "perfect" in the life to come. Consider this from Revelation :

1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

There will still be "healing" and other "work" to do in the life to come. That would only be possible if things were not "perfect".

keck553
Apr 15th 2009, 05:25 PM
I just want to fly.

Semi-tortured
Apr 15th 2009, 05:37 PM
As long as I can play football (soccer) without pulling and straining things, I'll be happy. ;) But honestly, I don't really think about what I will look like because it doesn't really matter to me much right now, let alone when I nobody will be judging me based on appearance.

keck553
Apr 15th 2009, 05:40 PM
......et alone when nobody will be judging me based on appearance.

Or your response to God through faith.

Esperanza32
Apr 15th 2009, 06:29 PM
I just want to fly.

Hey, are you teasing me??? :mad:

;)

Drew, you have a good point...where did we get the assumption that everything will be perfect in the new heaven and new earth? Is there any biblical basis for that belief?

And although I titled this thread "Resurrection bodies," I guess I'm really thinking more about the implications for our spiritual and emotional wounds, not physical appearance.

drew
Apr 15th 2009, 07:30 PM
...where did we get the assumption that everything will be perfect in the new heaven and new earth? Is there any biblical basis for that belief?
I have no idea where that idea comes from. I think that, insofar as we are created in God's image, and God is a creator, the last thing we would want is some kind of "perfect" state where there are no "problems" to solve and no important things to do.

John146
Apr 15th 2009, 08:28 PM
Hey, are you teasing me??? :mad:

;)

Drew, you have a good point...where did we get the assumption that everything will be perfect in the new heaven and new earth? Is there any biblical basis for that belief?Depends on what you mean by that exactly, but it does say this:

Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

drew
Apr 15th 2009, 08:40 PM
Depends on what you mean by that exactly, but it does say this:

Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
I agree, but we also have the text about the river of life flowing for the purpose of healing the nations. So I think this is a complex question. But, at the very least, it does appear that, notwithstanding the text you have posted, there will still be some "healing" going on. I do not see any particular conflict between all these texts - as long as we are prepared to not make a sweeping generalization that things will be "perfect" in that world to come.

A perfect world has nowhere to go - nothing to do for its inhabitants. And I cannot imagine that this is what God has in store for us. Human beings are designed to be active, creative agents. So we presumably will not spend eternity singing and listening to harp music, if you will excuse the expression.

John146
Apr 15th 2009, 09:01 PM
I believe that Jesus' situation is not unique. In other words, I see no reason to believe that our resurrection bodies will be perfect.

I am not sure where people get the idea that everything will be "perfect" in the life to come. Consider this from Revelation :

1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

There will still be "healing" and other "work" to do in the life to come. That would only be possible if things were not "perfect".What kind of healing would that be talking about in light of the fact that there will be no more death, crying, sorrow or pain at that time?

One possible view is that "the healing of the nations" has to do with the leaves of the tree giving health to the nations. It's not that people are sick or hurt, but that their health is maintained or provided by the leaves of the tree, which may or may not be a symbolic reference. I really don't think anyone will be sick or hurt at that time since there will be no death, sorrow or pain. Also, it says our bodies will be incorruptible and immortal (1 Cor 15:51-54).

John146
Apr 15th 2009, 09:12 PM
I agree, but we also have the text about the river of life flowing for the purpose of healing the nations. So I think this is a complex question. But, at the very least, it does appear that, notwithstanding the text you have posted, there will still be some "healing" going on.I just commented on this in my other post, so I won't say anymore here.


I do not see any particular conflict between all these texts - as long as we are prepared to not make a sweeping generalization that things will be "perfect" in that world to come.I have no doubt that God will have things for us to do at that time. And, of course, worshiping Christ will be something that we will spend a lot of time doing as well, which is just fine with me.


A perfect world has nowhere to go - nothing to do for its inhabitants. And I cannot imagine that this is what God has in store for us. Human beings are designed to be active, creative agents. So we presumably will not spend eternity singing and listening to harp music, if you will excuse the expression.I agree with that. But the fact is that we don't really know exactly what we will be doing other than worshiping Christ along with the angels. Beyond that I'm not sure if scripture really says much of anything about what we will be doing, but I'm sure we'll have plenty to do.

BroRog
Apr 15th 2009, 11:30 PM
I agree, but we also have the text about the river of life flowing for the purpose of healing the nations. So I think this is a complex question. But, at the very least, it does appear that, notwithstanding the text you have posted, there will still be some "healing" going on. I do not see any particular conflict between all these texts - as long as we are prepared to not make a sweeping generalization that things will be "perfect" in that world to come.

A perfect world has nowhere to go - nothing to do for its inhabitants. And I cannot imagine that this is what God has in store for us. Human beings are designed to be active, creative agents. So we presumably will not spend eternity singing and listening to harp music, if you will excuse the expression.

How does 1Cor. 15 fit into this? Paul describes our new body as both "spiritual" and "incorruptible" in that passage.

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