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Gregg
Apr 16th 2009, 06:03 PM
So, did the fathers of the OT who had concubines live in perpetual sin? Fornication? Adultry? Was it so prevelent that no one thought anything of it during their time on earth? With some direct connections to God, why didn't he put a stop to it? Send them a message, or a sign? Did it effect their salvation?

David Taylor
Apr 16th 2009, 06:59 PM
The bible denounces concubines and plural wives as wicked and something that turns men's hearts away from God.

Notice the example made of Solomon...once wise and faithful in his youth, but turned to adultry and sin his heart turned away from God to wickedness.




II Kings 11:1 "king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD"

HisLeast
Apr 16th 2009, 07:10 PM
Definitely an interesting question. I believe I asked the same one about 3 years ago (sheesh I've been here a while).

In my reading, it seems to me that plural wives are not ideal (ie: Solomon) but tolerated (ie: David & Solomon). The same goes for concubines, but as much as I can tell of concubines they were every bit as much a wife, but the offspring had no rights of inheritance.

revrobor
Apr 17th 2009, 02:09 AM
The bible denounces concubines and plural wives as wicked and something that turns men's hearts away from God.

Notice the example made of Solomon...once wise and faithful in his youth, but turned to adultry and sin his heart turned away from God to wickedness.




II Kings 11:1 "king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD"

The Bible does not condemn multiple wives or concubines. The verses you quote condemn Solomon for his disobedience in selecting certain women and his idolatry.
Basically Scripture is silent on this cultural practice in spite of the fact that some attempt to use the "...shall become one flesh..." and "...shall be the husband of one wife..." verses as "proof" that it does.

Gregg
Apr 19th 2009, 12:34 PM
Bummping for more feed back.

Thank you.

Metalwolf
Apr 19th 2009, 01:17 PM
This is something that I find interesting too, and hope more discussion is given. I don't know much about it, so I hope others will reply. :)

Kharisma
Apr 19th 2009, 04:34 PM
So, did the fathers of the OT who had concubines live in perpetual sin? Fornication? Adultry? Was it so prevelent that no one thought anything of it during their time on earth? With some direct connections to God, why didn't he put a stop to it? Send them a message, or a sign? Did it effect their salvation?

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob lived before the Law was given. So as far as having polygamy wives or concubines they did no wrong since as Romans 5:13 says "Because, till the law came, sin was in existence, but sin is not put to the account of anyone when there is no law to be broken". In other words, we can't consider then wrong for running a stoplight when they lived before red lights were invented. The law did not come until Moses' time which is close to 500 yrs after Jacob and his adult sons, their families, and grandkids had moved to Egypt to live with Joseph who by that time was second in command only to Pharoah himself.

With the Mosaic law, polygamy is acknowledged; for example Deuteronomy 21:15. Polygamy was not punished with lighting strikes yet every example of polygamous marriage in the Bible is fraught with intrinsic problems, family strife, and no peace whatsoever in the home. The reason for Deuteronomy 21:15 being stated in the first place is a prime example of what happens in polygamy. Once the Mosaic law was given, there are no indications that men of God were polygamous (men such as Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Job, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah,etc). After the Mosiac law was given, Israel wanted to live like the other nations around them so they asked for a King because they had only Judges. God warned them that what they were asking for was not a good thing. It would do more harm than good but they asked God for a king anyway. God word was vindicated because as soon as Israel got a king, they got even more problems with this form of government. Kings aren't religious men. Consequently, most of Israel's King was very worldly as opposed to devout. Of the long line of Kings, David and Josiah were probably the most religious although the bible doesn't mention that Josiah was a polygamist.

David, a man after God's own heart as far as his desire for the things of God, nevertheless fell hard due to his own sinful nature the result of which was polygamy. His natural desire got out of hand to the extent that he not only committed adultery (punishable by death) but also murder to cover up impregnating another man's wife. He then added the man's widow to his own stable of polygamy wives (I think 6 at that time) and the children born from his polygamist marriages had lives fill with hell on earth: incest-rape, constant family strife, family divisions, bitterness, power grabs among children, and one of David's older sons wanted to marry his own stepmother which was the last & youngest among David's harem of wives (David never slept with her; was too old and not interested). David was silent in the face of all this due to his apparent own internal condemnation. How different life would have been for he and his children had he one wife.

Whenever the subject comes up of polygamy, concubines, or any possible way for God to sanction men to have more than one sexual partner guilt-free, a few males will always use the patriarchs as an examples of polygamy being okay by God. These men never seem to really study the scriptures to see just what message is shown to us about the lives of people that practice polygamy. Nor do they consider what God called GOOD in his original creation of the genders: ONE man married to ONE woman. God has never said that it is not good for man to be alone so I will make a couple of women or more to be his helpmate, companions suitable for him. God never created plural women or wives for Adam's alone-ness; just one woman, Eve.


When God destroyed the earth and started over with a clean slate He saved only a righteous man and his family, that man, Noah had only ONE wife and his each of his three sons had only ONE wife. When Jesus briefly discussed marriage, he never used the patriarchs as an example of marriage. He went back to the beginning with Adam. This shows clearly what God considers as righteousness when it comes to marriage. Just because it's in the bible doesn't mean God wants us to take part in it. Remember, scripture was written for us to learn from -- All scripture is profitable for teaching, reproof, correcting, and training in righteousness (II Timothy 3:16).

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