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Firstfruits
Apr 19th 2009, 09:58 AM
Even though the gospel of Peter and Paul was the same, Peter was teaching what he ought not to be teaching and Paul asks the following;

Galatians 2:14-18
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Whose example are we following?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

billy-brown 2
Apr 19th 2009, 11:37 AM
Even though the gospel of Peter and Paul was the same, Peter was teaching what he ought not to be teaching and Paul asks the following;

Galatians 2:14-18
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Whose example are we following?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

A compelling question, indeed . . .

This seems to be a question concerning the efficacy of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In Peter's case, he was being hypocritical about the realities of the truth of the Gospel (in the context of this passage, Jewish/Gentile relations with circumcision was the dialectic).

Any misunderstanding of the Gospel and its truth will cause any of us to do any number of similar things (I'm sure all of us can provide a long list of these items).

At any rate, let us all be true followers of the truth of the Gospel--and not the works of the Law . . .

graceforme
Apr 19th 2009, 12:31 PM
Peter and Paul took different messages to the people. Paul had the "gospel of the uncircumision" and Peter had the "gospel of the circumcision."

Peter was taught the gospel of the circumcision by Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry, and Paul was taught the gospel of the uncircumcision by Jesus Christ after He had ascended to glory.

There were differences between Peter's gospel and the gospel of Paul. One such difference is water baptism.

Peter's gospel of the circumcision - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:30)

Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision - "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; ....." For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:14,17)


Under the gospel of the circumcision, water baptism was necessary expression of faith, but water baptism is not required under the gospel of the uncircumcision. If baptism was necessary for salvation under the gospel of the uncircumcision, Paul would not have said "I thank God that I baptized none of you." Whether baptism was necessary for salvation differs between these two gospels.

Also, there were differences between the two gospels regarding the Old Testament commandments.

Peter's gospel of the circumcision - "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 9:16,17)

Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision - "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (Ephesians 2:14-15)

Peter's gospel required the keeping of commandments while Paul's gospel didn't. It is obvious that Peter and Paul had different gospels. In Matthew 4:23, we find the "gospel of the kingdom", which was taught by Christ.

In Acts 20:24, we find the "gospel of the grace of God."

Yes, there were different messages from Peter and Paul.

God Bless.

-SEEKING-
Apr 19th 2009, 12:55 PM
It's interesting to note that after Peter had that encounter with the vision from God that his ministry pretty much almost disappeared in the book of Acts. Whereas God wasted no time in turning Saul the raging madman into Paul the fearless preacher.

Firstfruits
Apr 19th 2009, 12:58 PM
Peter and Paul took different messages to the people. Paul had the "gospel of the uncircumision" and Peter had the "gospel of the circumcision."

Peter was taught the gospel of the circumcision by Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry, and Paul was taught the gospel of the uncircumcision by Jesus Christ after He had ascended to glory.

There were differences between Peter's gospel and the gospel of Paul. One such difference is water baptism.

Peter's gospel of the circumcision - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:30)

Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision - "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; ....." For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:14,17)


Under the gospel of the circumcision, water baptism was necessary expression of faith, but water baptism is not required under the gospel of the uncircumcision. If baptism was necessary for salvation under the gospel of the uncircumcision, Paul would not have said "I thank God that I baptized none of you." Whether baptism was necessary for salvation differs between these two gospels.

Also, there were differences between the two gospels regarding the Old Testament commandments.

Peter's gospel of the circumcision - "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 9:16,17)

Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision - "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (Ephesians 2:14-15)

Peter's gospel required the keeping of commandments while Paul's gospel didn't. It is obvious that Peter and Paul had different gospels. In Matthew 4:23, we find the "gospel of the kingdom", which was taught by Christ.

In Acts 20:24, we find the "gospel of the grace of God."

Yes, there were different messages from Peter and Paul.

God Bless.

According to Paul there is only one gospel;

Gal 1:6 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=9) As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Peter was impying that gentiles had to keep the law or to live as Jews which is why he asked the question.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

There in only one message, there is only one gospel.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 19th 2009, 01:04 PM
A compelling question, indeed . . .

This seems to be a question concerning the efficacy of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In Peter's case, he was being hypocritical about the realities of the truth of the Gospel (in the context of this passage, Jewish/Gentile relations with circumcision was the dialectic).

Any misunderstanding of the Gospel and its truth will cause any of us to do any number of similar things (I'm sure all of us can provide a long list of these items).

At any rate, let us all be true followers of the truth of the Gospel--and not the works of the Law . . .

Thanks Billy-brown,

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Why would re-building that which he had left behind make Paul a transgressor?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits
Apr 19th 2009, 01:14 PM
It's interesting to note that after Peter had that encounter with the vision from God that his ministry pretty much almost disappeared in the book of Acts. Whereas God wasted no time in turning Saul the raging madman into Paul the fearless preacher.

Even so they were given the same gospel although to different groups. It seems as though Peter was more concerned with pleasing men rather than God with regards to what Paul said in the following.

Gal 1:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Gal 2:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=12) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=48&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Apr 19th 2009, 06:59 PM
Even so they were given the same gospel although to different groups.

Firstfruits

Exactly. That was my point.

Firstfruits
Apr 20th 2009, 06:34 AM
Exactly. That was my point.

Thanks Seeking,

That is agreed.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

-SEEKING-
Apr 20th 2009, 02:43 PM
Thanks Seeking,

That is agreed.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

God bless you too.

billy-brown 2
Apr 21st 2009, 06:02 PM
Thanks Billy-brown,

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Why would re-building that which he had left behind make Paul a transgressor?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Because Paul had "left behind" the works of the Law as his justification before a Holy God.

Paul did not want to "go there" again:

Gal 2:9
9 (http://bible.cc/galatians/2-19.htm) For I through the law (of faith) am dead to the law (of Moses), that I might live unto God.

As Paul says also in another place:

Phil 3:1-16
1 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-1.htm) Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-2.htm) Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-3.htm) for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-4.htm) although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-5.htm) circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-6.htm) as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-7.htm) But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-8.htm) More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-9.htm) and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-10.htm) that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-11.htm) in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-12.htm) Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-13.htm) Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-14.htm) I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-15.htm) Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-16.htm) however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

God bless you!

Firstfruits
Apr 21st 2009, 06:17 PM
Because Paul had "left behind" the works of the Law as his justification before a Holy God.

Paul did not want to "go there" again:

Gal 2:9
9 (http://bible.cc/galatians/2-19.htm) For I through the law (of faith) am dead to the law (of Moses), that I might live unto God.

As Paul says also in another place:

Phil 3:1-16
1 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-1.htm) Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-2.htm) Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-3.htm) for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-4.htm) although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-5.htm) circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-6.htm) as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-7.htm) But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-8.htm) More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-9.htm) and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-10.htm) that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-11.htm) in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-12.htm) Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-13.htm) Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-14.htm) I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-15.htm) Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-16.htm) however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

God bless you!


Thanks Billy-Brown,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

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