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-SEEKING-
Apr 21st 2009, 01:12 PM
I recently heard a pastor's say that when Jesus says "53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." that He was referring to the Last Supper and our observation of it. I had never heard that before, and honestly I'd never heard anyone's opinion of it at all. I'd love to get some feedback from you all here.

Thanks.

Partaker of Christ
Apr 21st 2009, 02:34 PM
I recently heard a pastor's say that when Jesus says "53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." that He was referring to the Last Supper and our observation of it. I had never heard that before, and honestly I'd never heard anyone's opinion of it at all. I'd love to get some feedback from you all here.

Thanks.

Hi Seeking!

One of the ways this was explained to me.

We need physical food and drink to live, but what we eat and drink can be important.

We also need spiritual food, and drink for the spirit.

I don't know if this is correct, but it was said that in the O/T, feeding off someone, was to be taking advantage of thm.
So we are to be, taking advantage of what Jesus Christ had done for us.

-SEEKING-
Apr 21st 2009, 03:55 PM
Hi Seeking!

One of the ways this was explained to me.

We need physical food and drink to live, but what we eat and drink can be important.

We also need spiritual food, and drink for the spirit.

I don't know if this is correct, but it was said that in the O/T, feeding off someone, was to be taking advantage of thm.
So we are to be, taking advantage of what Jesus Christ had done for us.

Wow. Never saw it that way. You bring a very interesting point of view. Thank you so much.

NotMyOwn
Apr 21st 2009, 06:38 PM
It also means that if we do not follow Christ and believe in His death and resurrection we do not have the life of Christ in us. It is apparent from Christ's death that we as believers will also be persecuted, because He was. If we are not willing to follow through in our faith in our daily lives, even to the point of persecution or death, then we have no inheritance in His eternal kingdom.

Followtheway
Apr 21st 2009, 06:52 PM
I would also say that since the word became flesh aka Yeshua the flesh would be the word and since the Lord told us not to drink blood because it is the life than the blood would be the life.

Butch5
Apr 22nd 2009, 12:32 AM
I recently heard a pastor's say that when Jesus says "53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." that He was referring to the Last Supper and our observation of it. I had never heard that before, and honestly I'd never heard anyone's opinion of it at all. I'd love to get some feedback from you all here.

Thanks.

That is mostly like the refeerence that Jesus was making.

crossnote
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:48 AM
I recently heard a pastor's say that when Jesus says "53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." that He was referring to the Last Supper and our observation of it. I had never heard that before, and honestly I'd never heard anyone's opinion of it at all. I'd love to get some feedback from you all here.

Thanks.

It is a very common position amongst many Lutherans. I would imagine Rome too but I am not sure of that.

gophgetter
Apr 23rd 2009, 06:09 AM
The flesh of the Son of God is His words and the blood is His spirit. We must partake of this spiritual communion on a daily basis or we will die spiritually.

Goph

9Marksfan
Apr 23rd 2009, 09:28 AM
It is a very common position amongst many Lutherans. I would imagine Rome too but I am not sure of that.#

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YES!!!!!! It doesn't mean the Lord's Supper at all - the clue is given earlier in the passage:-

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. Jn 6:35 NKJV

So coming to Jesus = eating the "living bread" = feeding on HIM by faith - and having our spiritual hunger satisfied.

And believing in Jesus = drinking from Him, by FAITH - and having our spiritual thirst quenched.

It's nothing to do with taking Communion but rather coming to Jesus and believing on Him for our spiritual nourishment, as we would have bread and water (or other drink) for our bodily nourishment.

-SEEKING-
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:05 PM
#

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YES!!!!!! It doesn't mean the Lord's Supper at all - the clue is given earlier in the passage:-

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. Jn 6:35 NKJV

So coming to Jesus = eating the "living bread" = feeding on HIM by faith - and having our spiritual hunger satisfied.

And believing in Jesus = drinking from Him, by FAITH - and having our spiritual thirst quenched.

It's nothing to do with taking Communion but rather coming to Jesus and believing on Him for our spiritual nourishment, as we would have bread and water (or other drink) for our bodily nourishment.

Thanks. That's very enlightening. I guess I forgot that I should have read the whole chapter and then would have a better picture.

Scruffy Kid
Apr 23rd 2009, 02:37 PM
Dear -SEEKING-,
As you will have observed from the thread, lots of different people have lots of different opinions about the matter you asked about! :lol: Some of them get heated against others who disagree. I'll give you a quick synopsis of the way I view it.


The bread of life discourse in John 6 is placed in the context of the feeding of the 5000.

In the synoptics, the feeding of the 5000, and also the feeding of the 4000, is also explicitly tied to the institution of the Lord's supper (eucharist), at the Last Supper. Mark, for instance, uses almost exactly the same words to describe what Jesus did at these miraculous multiplications of loaves and fishes as he does to describe what Jesus did at the last supper.

All these things, and more, I believe, strongly suggest that the words of John 6 are indeed speaking about receiving Jesus' body and blood in the Lord's Supper. Among protestants that view would be fairly common among Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, and many Presbyterians, I think, and also among a fair number of non-denominational Christians. (Also Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and other churches of the East.)

Another line of evidence is what the early church believed. It's pretty clear that the early church -- the church of the first 5 centuries (and thereafter) taught and believed that the Lord's Supper was the central act of worship which Jesus had instituted, through the apostles, and that the Lord's Supper (Eucharist) was in some special and supernatural way a participation in Christ's body and blood.

For many reasons -- including Scriptural, logical, historical, theological reasons of various sorts -- I am fully persuaded that that way of looking at things is correct. Therefore, generally, I agree with the message you seem to have taken away from the sermon you describe: that John 6 does indeed refer to Christ's gift of Himself to us in the Lord's Supper.

In friendship, :hug:
Scruffy

-SEEKING-
Apr 23rd 2009, 03:08 PM
Thank you so much Scruffy. I'm always blessed when I hear other's opinions and beliefs about a topic which I am not 100% sure of.

Have a blessed day.

billy-brown 2
Apr 23rd 2009, 09:17 PM
I recently heard a pastor's say that when Jesus says "53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." that He was referring to the Last Supper and our observation of it. I had never heard that before, and honestly I'd never heard anyone's opinion of it at all. I'd love to get some feedback from you all here.

Thanks.

Jesus' penchant for the metaphoric in His speech is in full, and rich, display in these passages (John 6:35-59), and requires a complete consideration of John 6 to understand the depth of all of them.

In general, our Savior is indicating simply that the things of relationship with Him and eternal life is "true food"--and is of more importance that anything "of the natural food" that the people He was speaking to had on their mind.

And so, Jesus uses "natural food" metaphors in His speech so that He could express deep spiritual truths to a people who were focused solely on "natural" things.

Here's an example:

John 6:26-29
26 (http://bible.cc/john/6-26.htm) Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27 (http://bible.cc/john/6-27.htm) “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
28 (http://bible.cc/john/6-28.htm) Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29 (http://bible.cc/john/6-29.htm) Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Therefore, we need not go beyond the metaphors in this Chapter at all. Some of them are listed below:

a) "bread" of life
b) "work" of God
c) "bread" of God
d) "living" "bread"
e) for the "food" which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you
f) he who comes to Me will not "hunger", and he who believes in Me will never "thirst".
g) “I am the "living" "bread" that "came down" out of heaven
h) My "flesh" (which I give for the life of the world) is "bread"
i) etc.
j) etc.

Now, is Jesus "bread?"

Can Jesus be "eaten?"

Not literally, but metaphorically only.

So, to "eat" Jesus (the "bread" of life), is to simply "believe in Him for Salvation"--and have a faith relationship with Him and so on.

We might want to get a glimpse of the full metaphoric context of all this from John 6:

John 6
1 (http://bible.cc/john/6-2.htm) After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (or Tiberias).
2 (http://bible.cc/john/6-2.htm) A large crowd followed Him, because they saw the signs which He was performing on those who were sick.
3 (http://bible.cc/john/6-3.htm) Then Jesus went up on the mountain, and there He sat down with His disciples.
4 (http://bible.cc/john/6-4.htm) Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.
5 (http://bible.cc/john/6-5.htm) Therefore Jesus, lifting up His eyes and seeing that a large crowd was coming to Him, said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these may eat?”
6 (http://bible.cc/john/6-6.htm) This He was saying to test him, for He Himself knew what He was intending to do.
7 (http://bible.cc/john/6-7.htm) Philip answered Him, “Two hundred denarii worth of bread is not sufficient for them, for everyone to receive a little.”
8 (http://bible.cc/john/6-8.htm) One of His disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, said to Him,
9 (http://bible.cc/john/6-9.htm) “There is a lad here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are these for so many people?”
10 (http://bible.cc/john/6-10.htm) Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.
11 (http://bible.cc/john/6-11.htm) Jesus then took the loaves, and having given thanks, He distributed to those who were seated; likewise also of the fish as much as they wanted.
12 (http://bible.cc/john/6-12.htm) When they were filled, He said to His disciples, “Gather up the leftover fragments so that nothing will be lost.”
13 (http://bible.cc/john/6-13.htm) So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.
14 (http://bible.cc/john/6-14.htm) Therefore when the people saw the sign which He had performed, they said, “This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world.”
15 (http://bible.cc/john/6-15.htm) So Jesus, perceiving that they were intending to come and take Him by force to make Him king, withdrew again to the mountain by Himself alone.
16 (http://bible.cc/john/6-16.htm) Now when evening came, His disciples went down to the sea,
17 (http://bible.cc/john/6-17.htm) and after getting into a boat, they started to cross the sea to Capernaum. It had already become dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them.
18 (http://bible.cc/john/6-18.htm) The sea began to be stirred up because a strong wind was blowing.
19 (http://bible.cc/john/6-19.htm) Then, when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near to the boat; and they were frightened.
20 (http://bible.cc/john/6-20.htm) But He said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.”
21 (http://bible.cc/john/6-21.htm) So they were willing to receive Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.
22 (http://bible.cc/john/6-22.htm) The next day the crowd that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other small boat there, except one, and that Jesus had not entered with His disciples into the boat, but that His disciples had gone away alone.
23 (http://bible.cc/john/6-23.htm) There came other small boats from Tiberias near to the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
24 (http://bible.cc/john/6-24.htm) So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they themselves got into the small boats, and came to Capernaum seeking Jesus.
25 (http://bible.cc/john/6-25.htm) When they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You get here?”
26 (http://bible.cc/john/6-26.htm) Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27 (http://bible.cc/john/6-27.htm) “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
28 (http://bible.cc/john/6-28.htm) Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29 (http://bible.cc/john/6-29.htm) Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
30 (http://bible.cc/john/6-30.htm) So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?
31 (http://bible.cc/john/6-31.htm) “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’”
32 (http://bible.cc/john/6-32.htm) Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
33 (http://bible.cc/john/6-33.htm) “For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
34 (http://bible.cc/john/6-34.htm) Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”
35 (http://bible.cc/john/6-35.htm) Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
36 (http://bible.cc/john/6-36.htm) “But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
37 (http://bible.cc/john/6-37.htm) “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 (http://bible.cc/john/6-38.htm) “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 (http://bible.cc/john/6-39.htm) “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 (http://bible.cc/john/6-40.htm) “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
41 (http://bible.cc/john/6-41.htm) Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”
42 (http://bible.cc/john/6-42.htm) They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?”
43 (http://bible.cc/john/6-43.htm) Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.
44 (http://bible.cc/john/6-44.htm) “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45 (http://bible.cc/john/6-45.htm) “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 (http://bible.cc/john/6-46.htm) “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 (http://bible.cc/john/6-47.htm) “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
48 (http://bible.cc/john/6-48.htm) “I am the bread of life.
49 (http://bible.cc/john/6-49.htm) “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50 (http://bible.cc/john/6-50.htm) “This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
51 (http://bible.cc/john/6-51.htm) “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
52 (http://bible.cc/john/6-52.htm) Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 (http://bible.cc/john/6-53.htm) So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
54 (http://bible.cc/john/6-54.htm) “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 (http://bible.cc/john/6-55.htm) “For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.
56 (http://bible.cc/john/6-56.htm) “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 (http://bible.cc/john/6-57.htm) “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.
58 (http://bible.cc/john/6-58.htm) “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 (http://bible.cc/john/6-59.htm) These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 (http://bible.cc/john/6-60.htm) Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?”
61 (http://bible.cc/john/6-61.htm) But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble?
62 (http://bible.cc/john/6-62.htm) “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
63 (http://bible.cc/john/6-63.htm) “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
64 (http://bible.cc/john/6-64.htm) “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
65 (http://bible.cc/john/6-65.htm) And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
66 (http://bible.cc/john/6-66.htm) As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67 (http://bible.cc/john/6-67.htm) So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68 (http://bible.cc/john/6-68.htm) Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69 (http://bible.cc/john/6-69.htm) “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”
70 (http://bible.cc/john/6-70.htm) Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
71 (http://bible.cc/john/6-71.htm) Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

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