PDA

View Full Version : Is the Body of Christ The Protestant system of religion?



Tomlane
Apr 22nd 2009, 10:55 PM
My question is: is the Body of Christ made up of what is considered Christianity today? Christianity being the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant system of religion? My reason for asking is Ephesians. 4:4-5 says there is one faith, one body; yet Christianity as it is known has over three thousand faiths of your choice and many as many doctrines.

Tomlane

HisLeast
Apr 22nd 2009, 11:02 PM
As best as I can tell, the Body of Christ and "Church" is the global collection of people who are sold out for Christ. If not, then someone had better figure out the exact institution we must belong to in a hurry.

I'd hate to tell the Ossirans who were beaten and burned to death that their Christianity was a sham because they weren't a member of the right organization.

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:41 AM
My question is: is the Body of Christ made up of what is considered Christianity today? Christianity being the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant system of religion? My reason for asking is Ephesians. 4:4-5 says there is one faith, one body; yet Christianity as it is known has over three thousand faiths of your choice and many as many doctrines. TomlaneThe "One" body consists of those who have been redemned; the apostle Peter said, [from memory] ...being born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, by the word of God, Jesus said to a religious leader once, saying, except you be born again you will not see (enter) the Kingdom of God. Just as you and I were made the children of Adam by birth, so must we become the chrildren of God by the rebirth. That's why Jesus said, You must be born again.

The body (the saved children of God) are made up of people regardless of Christian denomination, race, or color who by the miracle of the New Birth has been translated (taken) from Satan's kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's Son. That is the body! And you don't enter by sacriments are being a member of the --right-- chuirch or denomination. :)

Emanate
Apr 23rd 2009, 01:28 AM
I'd hate to tell the Ossirans who were beaten and burned to death that their Christianity was a sham because they weren't a member of the right organization.


The same happened to Jews and Muslims. Does that make them the "right organization"?

HisLeast
Apr 23rd 2009, 01:38 AM
The same happened to Jews and Muslims. Does that make them the "right organization"?

I'm not suggesting being martyred makes one right. But I certainly think that someone who is martyred for the sake of Christ is part of the body of Christ, yet this simply couldn't be true if the "body of Christ" was an earthly institution contained in one denomination.

Jerome1
Apr 23rd 2009, 02:00 AM
Tough question and everyone will have different opinions, could you be more specifc. Do you mean, does one only atain salvation if they hold the protestant understanding of the five solas?

kay-gee
Apr 23rd 2009, 03:30 AM
The "One" body consists of those who have been redemned; the apostle Peter said, [from memory] ...being born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, by the word of God, Jesus said to a religious leader once, saying, except you be born again you will not see (enter) the Kingdom of God. Just as you and I were made the children of Adam by birth, so must we become the chrildren of God by the rebirth. That's why Jesus said, You must be born again.

[QUOTE]The body (the saved children of God) are made up of people regardless of Christian denomination,
[/QOTE] race, or color who by the miracle of the New Birth has been translated (taken) from Satan's kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's Son. That is the body! And you don't enter by sacriments are being a member of the --right-- chuirch or denomination. :)
where is this taught in the Bible?

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 03:49 AM
Jerome1, if you are referring to the five solas as:

Faith alone (Sola Fide) Is correct without good works for salvation.

Christ alone (Solus Christus) Just Christ as a mediator is correct. so a man acting as mediator in water baptism is incorrect as the makes to mediators.

Grace alone (Sola Gratia} Grace alone is all we can do and is not a work of merit or it that scriptural.

Glory to God alone (Soli Deo Gloria) Yes the glory is God's alone except he is going to share it with his Household of adopted believers. Bibicaly there is not such thing as God making a reformation of His Church as God does not make mistakes. Only unsaved men and carnal believers can do that. It does not honor Christ but drags His name down.

Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura) is correct minus Magisterium and Sola fide

Those five things are what brings man and God together as each one stands alone but the others are correct the real church is made of only believers as they are the living stones that make up the church with Christ being the chief Corner Stone and not Peter. 1 Peter 2:5-9

1 Peter 2:5 *Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 *Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 *Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 *And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 *But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


Notice in verse 9 each stone is a royal priest as ordained by God and not by man. What higher calling can a saved sinner have than that?

For those who may not understand the office of a priest, it simply means each born again sinner goes to the Father directly through Christ and not through Mary or any via other means.

There are no unsaved in the Body of Christ for the Lord adds the remembers. That is why the gates of hell will not prevail against it because all who are saved have the protection of the Father as well as the Lord for the Father gave them to the Lord.

John 6:37 *All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

We can know we are save in this church or body is because Chist adds each believer to it. Acts 2:47. We have the assurance of eternal life because Christ said in the John 6: 37 he will in no wise cast out.

The way we can tell a false church is it will have unsaved men in it who teach its members to hold fast to tradition instead of God's word and there are both saved and unsaved and they unfailingly and continually ask you for money or want to sell you something and are showman rather than sober minded men of God who are marred and the Husband of one wife and their children are in subjection to them. That is God's order. The wolves in sheep's clothing will want you to fellowship with the unsaved and they will add you to their membership rolls, not God.

2 Corinthians 6:14 *Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Mature Believers who are correctly versed in the word of God are told to do many things but I will only touch on two of them as they pertain to this thread.

Ephesians 5:11 *And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 3:9 *And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In reality we do know from the very few who love the Lord enough to have obeyed 2 Corinthians 6:17 {2 Corinthians 6:17 *Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, *Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,} these men of God have a far more blessed walk in Christ and have a far better understanding God's word and his will for us and will reap the greater reward.

God has made us complete just in the body of Christ for everything that will please God.

Colossians 2:10 *And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

2 Timothy 3:16 *All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 *That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Romans 16:17 *¶Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
1 Corinthians 1:10 *¶Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 3:3 *For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

I hope that will be a blessing to you Jerome,

Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 23rd 2009, 04:02 AM
I look for three things...who.. when... where

Who was the founder of the Church and it's head?

When was the Church founded?

Where was the Church founded?

all the best...

Dani H
Apr 23rd 2009, 04:12 AM
The body of Christ are those who are joined to Him, are one spirit with Him. Those who are in Him. He is the Head. No head = no body, no matter what your "name tag" says that you choose to outwardly associate yourself with. :)

Izdaari
Apr 23rd 2009, 09:09 AM
Tough question and everyone will have different opinions, could you be more specifc. Do you mean, does one only atain salvation if they hold the protestant understanding of the five solas?
I think the five solas are correct, but I also don't think it's a salvation issue.

Paul says in Romans 10:9-10 that one is saved by believing in one's heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, and by confessing Jesus as Lord. He doesn't say anything about believing in theological doctrines that weren't even formulated until the 1500's!

I believe Christ has followers in the Protestant churches, and in Catholic and Orthodox churches. And I'm sure He has some who never had the opportunity to join any church at all!

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 09:54 AM
Quote:
The body (the saved children of God) are made up of people regardless of Christian denomination,
Quote:
[/QOTE] race, or color who by the miracle of the New Birth has been translated (taken) from Satan's kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's Son. That is the body! And you don't enter by sacriments are being a member of the --right-- chuirch or denomination. :)

where is this taught in the Bible?kay-gee, Could you be more specific or restate your question? Are you saying this is false (cynicism) are you just want to know.

David Taylor
Apr 23rd 2009, 11:32 AM
I look for three things...who.. when... where

Who was the founder of the Church and it's head?

When was the Church founded?

Where was the Church founded?

all the best...
1) The Lord
2) When the first parents taught there children to trust and follow the Lord
3) Eden, or just outside anyway

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by kay-gee http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=2052383#post2052383)
I look for three things...who.. when... where

Who was the founder of the Church and it's head?

When was the Church founded?

Where was the Church founded?




1) The Lord 2) When the first parents taught there children to trust and follow the Lord
3) Eden, or just outside anyway 1) Nailed it David, the Lord Jesus Christ. 2) Oops! The Church is only 2000 years old, thousand's of years after God expelled them out of Eden, it was founded on the Day of Pentecost, 50 days after the ressurection of Christ when Jesus gave the promise of the Father - the Holy Spirit to dwell in us and to lead us into all truths. He is the "other comforter" that Jesus said would come. 3) In the mind of God, in our hearts, in heaven, in the upper room at Jerusalem.

theBelovedDisciple
Apr 23rd 2009, 03:50 PM
The "One" body consists of those who have been redemned; the apostle Peter said, [from memory] ...being born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, by the word of God, Jesus said to a religious leader once, saying, except you be born again you will not see (enter) the Kingdom of God. Just as you and I were made the children of Adam by birth, so must we become the chrildren of God by the rebirth. That's why Jesus said, You must be born again.

The body (the saved children of God) are made up of people regardless of Christian denomination, race, or color who by the miracle of the New Birth has been translated (taken) from Satan's kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's Son. That is the body! And you don't enter by sacriments are being a member of the --right-- chuirch or denomination. :)

Yep.... what he said...

and this according to the Foreknowledge and Will of God Himself...

not man made religious systems... made to look and appear like the real thing..

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 04:21 PM
Yep.... what he said...

and this according to the Foreknowledge and Will of God Himself...

not man made religious systems... made to look and appear like the real thing..Mega ditto's back at ya.

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:18 PM
Izdaari, Stated:

I believe Christ has followers in the Protestant churches, and in Catholic and Orthodox churches. And I'm sure He has some who never had the opportunity to join any church at all!

I agree with you. Most believers are members of some man-made denomination of one kind or the other. They are the one's missing out. The one's you mentioned that never had the opportunity to join any church at all are the blessed ones. They don't have to unlearn false doctrine and and they have the chance to rightly divide God's word so they can grow spiritually and become mature believers and are completely weaned from the milk of the word.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Tomlane

David Taylor
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:25 PM
1) Nailed it David, the Lord Jesus Christ. 2) Oops! The Church is only 2000 years old, thousand's of years after God expelled them out of Eden, it was founded on the Day of Pentecost, 50 days after the ressurection of Christ when Jesus gave the promise of the Father - the Holy Spirit to dwell in us and to lead us into all truths. He is the "other comforter" that Jesus said would come. 3) In the mind of God, in our hearts, in heaven, in the upper room at Jerusalem.

The church didn't begin at Pentecost.

Pentecost marked the turning point in God's plan of salvation towards the Gentiles which had been fortold. From Pentecost onward, the Holy Spirit empowered believers unlike He ever had before to take the gospel out in Power to all people, tongues, tribes and nations.

The church had always existed where two or more believers assembled together to worship their Lord. In OT times, however, prior to calvary and prior to the empowering of the Holy Spirit; it was a small shadow and pattern of what it would eventually come.

Were there no church prior to Pentecost, then there were no saved and redeemed people prior to Pentecost either. THe Hebrew writer takes the faithful believers all the way back to Abel.

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:30 PM
Sojourner, Nailed it David, the Lord Jesus Christ.????? Would you explain please. Thank you.

Tomlane

faithfulfriend
Apr 23rd 2009, 06:30 PM
My question is: is the Body of Christ made up of what is considered Christianity today? Christianity being the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant system of religion? My reason for asking is Ephesians. 4:4-5 says there is one faith, one body; yet Christianity as it is known has over three thousand faiths of your choice and many as many doctrines.

Tomlane

Nope. Neither system of religion is the body of Christ.

Protestantism didn't come about until the 1500's, and full blown Roman Catholicism didn't develop until around 270 - 300 AD.

Christ built his church before either of these two systems came about.

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 08:35 PM
faithfulfriend stated:


Nope. Neither system of religion is the body of Christ.

Protestantism didn't come about until the 1500's, and full blown Roman Catholicism didn't develop until around 270 - 300 AD.

Christ built his church before either of these two systems came about.

I agree with you even to the dates. I have a few questions for you then in regards to your statement of you care to answer them.

Since we are made complete in Christ {Colossians 2:10} and that since the Lord began His church on the day of Pentecost do you believe we add to God's word when we by choice, join a church of our Choice since the Lord has said there is only one faith and body as stated in Ephesians 4:4-5, or do you think God has created our new man so that we can do all things in His name including fellowship aside from mans institutionalized religion?

Then if I may ask do you believe man's new religious days are OK with God or would they be adding to His word and considered sin since God has said faith comes from hearing and hearing comes from the word and in another place it says that which is not of faith is sin. So what is your take on man's holy days and traditions such as the one found in Jeremiah 10 as well?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

My last question if you are up to answering it is this: Do you think man's religions have Babylonian influence in any of denominational doctrines and traditions?

I believe you will do well if you answer all of my questions for you.

Also if anyone else would like to tackle these landmine questions, feel free to. Only use scripture to back up your positions please. Thank you,

Tomlane

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 08:41 PM
Sojourner, Nailed it David, the Lord Jesus Christ.????? Would you explain please. Thank you.

TomlaneYes, the church was founded by the Lord Jesus, David was correct in his answer. Other than that I don't know how to answer you, Tomlane.

Sojourner
Apr 23rd 2009, 08:42 PM
The church didn't begin at Pentecost.

Pentecost marked the turning point in God's plan of salvation towards the Gentiles which had been fortold. From Pentecost onward, the Holy Spirit empowered believers unlike He ever had before to take the gospel out in Power to all people, tongues, tribes and nations.

The church had always existed where two or more believers assembled together to worship their Lord. In OT times, however, prior to calvary and prior to the empowering of the Holy Spirit; it was a small shadow and pattern of what it would eventually come.

Were there no church prior to Pentecost, then there were no saved and redeemed people prior to Pentecost either. THe Hebrew writer takes the faithful believers all the way back to Abel.Let me see if I am understanding - are you saying that Judaism and the O.T. saints are in the church. I don't know how to debate that line of reasoning. Bye.

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 08:48 PM
Sojourner (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=11117), I'm trying to find out what got nailed to David and what David, the one who was King of Israel and took another man's wife as His own? I have never heard or read that in the bible. Sorry to bother you.

Tomlane

David Taylor
Apr 24th 2009, 02:36 AM
Let me see if I am understanding - are you saying that Judaism and the O.T. saints are in the church. I don't know how to debate that line of reasoning. Bye.

I'm saying that any faithful believer and follower of the Lord is apart of His Church.

His church wasn't birthed at Pentecost, but has always existed; it only underwent a large growth-spurt at and after Pentecost; to include the peoples of every tongue, tribe, and nation for the first time; where previously it had been mostly limited to the faithful within Israel.

The same redeemer who redeemed you redeemed David and Job and Noah; and all 4 of you are apart of His born again, written in the Lambs book of life, family; sometimes called the church.

kay-gee
Apr 24th 2009, 12:02 PM
I'm saying that any faithful believer and follower of the Lord is apart of His Church.

His church wasn't birthed at Pentecost, but has always existed; it only underwent a large growth-spurt at and after Pentecost; to include the peoples of every tongue, tribe, and nation for the first time; where previously it had been mostly limited to the faithful within Israel.

The same redeemer who redeemed you redeemed David and Job and Noah; and all 4 of you are apart of His born again, written in the Lambs book of life, family; sometimes called the church.


Boy David Taylor, are you ever off!!!

Jesus says...I WILL build MY Church. future tense! Matt16:18

The gospel in it's entirety with the ability to save preached on Pentecosts Acts 2:38

After that point the first records of Chrisian assembly and worship Acts 2:42

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 24th 2009, 12:05 PM
Quote:
The body (the saved children of God) are made up of people regardless of Christian denomination,
Quote:
[/QOTE] race, or color who by the miracle of the New Birth has been translated (taken) from Satan's kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's Son. That is the body! And you don't enter by sacriments are being a member of the --right-- chuirch or denomination. :)
kay-gee, Could you be more specific or restate your question? Are you saying this is false (cynicism) are you just want to know.

I am asking...where does the Bible teach that you are a part of "one body" regardless of denomination?

all the best...

faithfulfriend
Apr 24th 2009, 12:15 PM
faithfulfriend stated:
I agree with you even to the dates. I have a few questions for you then in regards to your statement of you care to answer them.

Since we are made complete in Christ {Colossians 2:10} and that since the Lord began His church on the day of Pentecost do you believe we add to God's word when we by choice, join a church of our Choice since the Lord has said there is only one faith and body as stated in Ephesians 4:4-5, or do you think God has created our new man so that we can do all things in His name including fellowship aside from mans institutionalized religion?

On the day of Pentecost, the church was sanctified [filled with the Holy Ghost]. The church already existed prior to the day of Pentecost. The apostles were already saved before the day of Pentecost, they were then sanctified [a second definite work of grace] and filled with the Holy Ghost on that day. There are two distinct and separate works of grace, Salvation and Entire Sanctification. Each work performed by God.

Where in the Bible does it teach to join the church of your choice?

Where in the Bible is there the Baptist church? The Nazarene church? The Presbyterian church? Seventh day adventist church? Pentecostal church? Catholic church? etc etc.

There's only one church mentioned in the Bible, and that one church had one name: The church of God.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

There is only one universal church:

Eph 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Eph 1:22-23 (Connected with Eph. 2:16 & I Cor. 12:13) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

All true standing local congregations are apart of the universal church:

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

Ga 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Re 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

The scriptural name for the church:

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Notice Christ purchased the church of God with his own blood, not the Baptist church, Pentecostal church, Assembly of God, Presbyterian church, etc etc.

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1 Corinthians 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1 Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:



Then if I may ask do you believe man's new religious days are OK with God or would they be adding to His word and considered sin since God has said faith comes from hearing and hearing comes from the word and in another place it says that which is not of faith is sin. So what is your take on man's holy days and traditions such as the one found in Jeremiah 10 as well?

I guess my question would be which "holy" days you are speaking of?

God's people live holy every day, thus there's no reason for any "holy" days in that though. I guess I'm not familiar with which days you're speaking of. :confused


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

My last question if you are up to answering it is this: Do you think man's religions have Babylonian influence in any of denominational doctrines and traditions?

Mans religion is exactly what you just said, mans. Manmade religion is not made of God, it is made from man. Mans ideas and mans doctrines dominate mans religion.

Christ only built one church, with one doctrine, one faith, one Lord, one baptism, and one truth.

The Bible speaks in several places of Gods sheep being scattered, and that God would bring them all back into one fold [church, local congregation].

Any religion that is man made is Babylon itself. God's church came down from Heaven, and it is divinely instituted.


I believe you will do well if you answer all of my questions for you.

Also if anyone else would like to tackle these landmine questions, feel free to. Only use scripture to back up your positions please. Thank you,

Tomlane

Hope I answered what you were asking for.

Tomlane
Apr 24th 2009, 02:10 PM
faithfulfriend, Over all your replies were very biblical. However, The law with its ordinances was still in effect prior to the Holy Spirit dwelling in man or they wouldn't have been such as thing as Pentecost. So the disciples were not technically in the Body of Christ until Christ added them. Acts 2:47.

Also Christ commanded us: Colossians 3:17 *And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Another reason I gave that verse would because we shouldn't just refer to Church of God as just that or universal church of God for it is also referred to as the body of Christ. The danger of staying with one name just makes those who want to walk in unity just another denomination for that is not doing all in word or deed in Christ's name. Since Christ's name is our family name we should just refer to an assembly of believers as meeting in Christ name. In that light I think you may agree with that. I do believe we have to be very careful in our walk and deeds. No one is more guilty than I for not be being nearly as careful as I should be. I work on that daily as the old flesh rears up its ugly head daily.

When you stated:
All true standing local congregations are apart of the universal church:

My question is when you refer to the local congregation are you referring to that church, the building who are assembling for fellowship and instruction or are you referring to that building and doctrine found with in the believers in the building and can any one come in off the street and jump through the hoop and become a member?

Faithfulfriend stated:
I guess my question would be which "holy" days you are speaking of?
God's people live holy every day, thus there's no reason for any "holy" days in that though. I guess I'm not familiar with which days you're speaking of.

Since Jeremiah 10 says: Jeremiah 10:1 *¶Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 *Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 *For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 *They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 *They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Since these passages is speaking of cutting down a tree, dragging it out of the woods than making a stand for it to keep it up right then decorating it with gold and silver, the custom today would be the Christmas tree and the holy day would Be Christmas. Which neither has God commanded man to observe or do. So that would be adding to God's word. So that would make it a man made ordinances with its roots founded in Babylon and man's traditions.

Over all Fatithfulfriend, what its worth I thought your replies were excellent. We just disagee on a couple of minor points a rare thing. :D

Thank you again, Tomlane

faithfulfriend
Apr 24th 2009, 02:28 PM
faithfulfriend, Over all your replies were very biblical. However, The law with its ordinances was still in effect prior to the Holy Spirit dwelling in man or they wouldn't have been such as thing as Pentecost. So the disciples were not technically in the Body of Christ until Christ added them. Acts 2:47.

Also Christ commanded us: Colossians 3:17 *And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Another reason I gave that verse would because we shouldn't just refer to Church of God as just that or universal church of God for it is also referred to as the body of Christ. The danger of staying with one name just makes those who want to walk in unity just another denomination for that is not doing all in word or deed in Christ's name. Since Christ's name is our family name we should just refer to an assembly of believers as meeting in Christ name. In that light I think you may agree with that. I do believe we have to be very careful in our walk and deeds. No one is more guilty than I for not be being nearly as careful as I should be. I work on that daily as the old flesh rears up its ugly head daily.

Christ wasn't and is still not denominational. Denominations are made of men, thus the many doctrines, sects, and creeds. The name is absolutely important, Christ himself prayed: "John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. "

God will bring all true Christians into the one fold, his Word promises to do so.

God also promised to name his church:

Isaiah 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Then to prove that Zion = God's church:

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The disciples were in the body of Christ [aka saved] before the day of Pentecost for the following reasons:

They had believed on Christ: “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me” (John 17:8). “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16:16).

They had been born again: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12, 13). [“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him” (I John 5:1).]

Their names were written in heaven, as were those of the Seventy: “Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven” (Luke 10:20). They had been sent to preach the gospel: “And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 10:7).

They were not of the world: “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you” (John 15:19). “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world” (John 17:16).

They kept God’s word: “I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word” (John 17:6).

They were clean through the word: “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3)—which is effected by “being born again” ... by the word of God—“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever” (I Peter 1:23).






When you stated:

My question is when you refer to the local congregation are you referring to that church, the building who are assembling for fellowship and instruction or are you referring to that building and doctrine found with in the believers in the building and can any one come in off the street and jump through the hoop and become a member?

Ohhh no!!!! Absolutely not!!!

The church is NOT a building, but it is a SPIRITUAL house.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Salvation grants one entrance into God's church. But God also wants all truly saved individuals to worship with the other true saints at a local congregation of true saints. Makes sense? For example God doesn't want somebody who is saved to stay in Babylon [false religion], he wants to call them out of Babylon and into a local congregation that is standing for all truth.


Faithfulfriend stated:

Since Jeremiah 10 says: Jeremiah 10:1 *¶Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 *Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 *For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 *They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 *They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Since these passages is speaking of cutting down a tree, dragging it out of the woods than making a stand for it to keep it up right then decorating it with gold and silver, the custom today would be the Christmas tree and the holy day would Be Christmas. Which neither has God commanded man to observe or do. So that would be adding to God's word. So that would make it a man made ordinances with its roots founded in Babylon and man's traditions.

Christmas is not Christian, but rather pagan. So yes we agree here. We don't celebrate Christmas as the world does, nor do we have Christmas trees.


Over all Fatithfulfriend, what its worth I thought your replies were excellent. We just disagee on a couple of minor points a rare thing. :D

Thank you again, Tomlane

Thanks....I try. Good questions raised.

SoldierOfChrist
Apr 24th 2009, 03:54 PM
I don't think it's a good idea to look to any one church and think it's god's official church. If the church is bringing God's Spirit to the people I would say they are doing his work. I'm not sure I would say that about the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestant system of religion.

The real church cannot be seen with your eyes, as the kingdom is within.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Michael

Sojourner
Apr 24th 2009, 04:40 PM
I am asking...where does the Bible teach that you are a part of "one body" regardless of denomination?

all the best...The New Testament is replete with the phrases In Christ, In whom, In him; if your in him (in Christ) then you are in the church. I haven't read yet anywhere it says "In Baptist church", "In Catholic church".

Tomlane
Apr 24th 2009, 06:05 PM
Ok Folks, I give you my two cents worth for what its worth.

I believe God has made it very plain in his word and think most here are in agreement that believers or as the Lord sees us as living stones are the Church also referred to as the body of Christ. Christ being the chief corner stone or head of the body. One thought just came to me, the head is always is what thinks and ordains what the rest of the body will to, how it moves, how it will react, what it will feel. That is what we are to the Lord, we are of his flesh and bones, we are his to do or perform His will, with our free will now and also in the next live. However, since we still have our carnal flesh it does at times get in the way of His will, but when we have just our new natures then our free will be His will in all things and we will joyously carry out His will with no after thought or questioning it. Our obedience will be holy and of perfection for that will be our only nature. Isn't that something wonderful to think about?

Many people when you mention the word church, think of what denomination are you referring to? I'm guilty of that as well since most believers today have fallen by the wayside and are not only in the one body that Christ is building but they see double and are in a man made organization that has a 'faith of your choice' mentality. I believe when we see more than another choice other than what Christ is building then we are spiritually drunk on the wine of the Mother of Harlots as described in Revelations. I believe the reason God refers to this system of religion as a harlot is because God's people have joined themselves spiritually to either her or one of her daughters {off shoot religions} thus spiritual fornication.

The Lord wants His people, His family separate from the world.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

I believe the Lord's intention was that His believers would walk in unity and be of one mind and one faith so we could be a light to the world; more so then what we have today as a testimony to the world. I also think that those who do come out from those who's idols is in denominational will get the greater blessings and will grow and mature spiritually.

I also believe when we walk in man's institutionalized religion with its modern day ordinances such as water baptism, Sabbath keeping, the Sunday snack {Can't call it passover, because that feast lasted for a week and was Jewish} tithing, modern holy days, or of any ordinances that burdens us down from being free in Christ and when we are not using Christ as our everyday sabbath, then we are under bondage and ineffective as a believer in Christ. The world loves its own that is why man's holy days are so popular with saved and unsaved alike.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

The word church today to most people distinguishes which doctrine and building you meat in provided you have the address; whereas in scripture the Greek for Church only means an assembly of called out ones.

The church that is in Rome or Ephesus for example means the assembly of believers in that area. Also when a man and woman marry and both are born again, they are the church at wherever they reside at.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I'm most thankful for those of you who have given so many beautiful truths about the bride of Christ. I really appreciate them.

For those who may read this the Lord has given explicit instructions about unity.

Romans 16:17 ¶Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

1 Corinthians 1:10 ¶Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 25th 2009, 02:09 AM
I don't think it's a good idea to look to any one church and think it's god's official church. If the church is bringing God's Spirit to the people I would say they are doing his work. I'm not sure I would say that about the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestant system of religion.

The real church cannot be seen with your eyes, as the kingdom is within.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Michael

Hi Soldier. I believe it is right to look at one church as Gods official Church. To claim otherwise, is to say that Christ failed in establishing His Church. This Church is still in exsistance and shall be till the end, as per the promise. The church is know by its adherence to the teachings of Christ. (John 8:31)

How can a "church" founded by someone other than Christ and teaching contrary doctrines and gospels, be a part of His church?

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 25th 2009, 02:20 AM
Tomlane. I was reading your last post, and just as I was thinking you were beginning to make sense on an issue or two, you come out with an outlandish statement like referring to the Lords supper as a Sunday snack.

That's the most dis-respectful thing I have ever heard. You might as well have slapped Jesus in the face with that comment. I take considerable offence to it to tell the the truth! Are YOU FOR REAL? Are you honestly going to claim that Jesus did not institute this ordinance and that it was not practisced in His church? That is almost as Goofy as your unscriptural baptism rantings.

Buddy! you are in need of some serious Bible study.

As it stands now, your credibility as a Bible student is ZERO!!!

all the best...

Sojourner
Apr 25th 2009, 04:28 AM
Hi Soldier. I believe it is right to look at one church as Gods official Church. To claim otherwise, is to say that Christ failed in establishing His Church. This Church is still in exsistance and shall be till the end, as per the promise. The church is know by its adherence to the teachings of Christ. (John 8:31)

How can a "church" founded by someone other than Christ and teaching contrary doctrines and gospels, be a part of His church?

all the best... The Greek word ekklesia, translated church, means "called out ones", now that sounds like people to me not an building, creed, or denominations (organization). Per se, the Catholic Church HQed in the Vaican is not the church, neither the Baptist Church on the cornor. The called out one exists with out brick and mortar, without paying the electrical bill. The church doesn't have an office, not really; take away all the amenities, burn the cushioned pews, sell all the knelling benches, take down every church sign, fire the pastor, disban, and the church goes on. It all boils down to did God identified you on the cross with the faith that is not your own, but His, and when the Savior died you and I died. He (the ressurected Christ) now live in you and I and now you are separated unto him - "called out".

Denominations came much later after Jesus call the Blood washed redeemed unto Hisself. It is the Blood: "Without the shedding of Blood, there is no remission of sin." And Jesus weeps for people who put there faith in an man-made organization with bills to pay and does periodical repairs, and moves to a better location, and advertize in the 'Religious Section" of the local newspaper. :cry:

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 06:46 AM
Kay-gee, :lol: you are making me laugh with your ignorance of Jewish ordinances. But I sure bless you for bring this to my attention as I count it with joy. I have complete confidence in what I state about Sunday snacks that is accomplished with a wafer, or bread and wine. Since that is not scriptural for the Church why don't you do a little History research and learn that this practice was passed down from the Roman Catholic Church to the Protestant system of religion. Babylon religion had a duplicate like communion long before Rome picked it up.
In regards to being popular on here that is not why I'm here. I'm here to give God's word minus the denominational trappings. I also don't have you to answer to, but I do and will answer to Christ and in the things I have studied, the Holy Spirit has given me complete confidence with His spirit of truth and error.

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Kay-Gee, thanks for the idea, I think I will do a study on the practice of communion and maybe that might help someone. By the way kay-gee the Lord wasn't popular when He was around either and I have learned God's truth still isn't popular or accepted much because man still has a carnal nature.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

If I wanted to be justified with man's popular communion program with a few magic words that changes a wafer or bread into the flesh of Christ and wine, supposedly into his blood, I would join the crowed and play make believe with the rest of you.

Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Philippians 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Don't forget when you do communion you have to use your flesh. Do you get the connection with the above verse?

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

If you give enough study to communion you will find its roots in the philosophy of men and not at all biblical.

Please read the following verses very carefully.

1 Corinthians 10:15 ¶I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Paul is not speaking about bread and wine for communion. The communion Paul is speaking of here is fellowship while breaking bread {having a meal}. Proof, Verse 17 for Paul stated we being many are one bread, {not physical bread} and one body {the church} for we are all partakers of that one bread {Christ}

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:48 I am that bread of life. I do believe if we have Christ in our life and we are walking by faith then we won't hunger and thirst after the ordinances and philosophys of men.

We are to partake of Christ by faith, and believe what He has done for us, not what we do for him. That is the only if we God accepts us not on our merit or works that we do but His merit and the only magic words is "For Give Me Lord".

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

When you do works based on ordinances all we do is prove to God is we don't really believe His grace for us and that He is our Sabbath and we can rest in Him 24/7 minus the ordinances.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I hope this will help you to be blessed Kay-Gee to see you can be a new man and have peace and rest from your ordinances, Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 25th 2009, 12:05 PM
The Greek word ekklesia, translated church, means "called out ones", now that sounds like people to me not an building, creed, or denominations (organization). Per se, the Catholic Church HQed in the Vaican is not the church, neither the Baptist Church on the cornor. The called out one exists with out brick and mortar, without paying the electrical bill. The church doesn't have an office, not really; take away all the amenities, burn the cushioned pews, sell all the knelling benches, take down every church sign, fire the pastor, disban, and the church goes on. It all boils down to did God identified you on the cross with the faith that is not your own, but His, and when the Savior died you and I died. He (the ressurected Christ) now live in you and I and now you are separated unto him - "called out".

Denominations came much later after Jesus call the Blood washed redeemed unto Hisself. It is the Blood: "Without the shedding of Blood, there is no remission of sin." And Jesus weeps for people who put there faith in an man-made organization with bills to pay and does periodical repairs, and moves to a better location, and advertize in the 'Religious Section" of the local newspaper. :cry:

I'm not sure I understand the issue exactly. Brick and mortar seems to keep coming up in these discussions about The Church. I don't think I have said anywhere in my posts that The Church is a physical building. I agree that denominations came much later. I agree with most of what you say, except that there WAS and still IS in exsistance, a body of believers that holds to the truth of Christs teachings. To identify the One true church, one only needs to examine the scriptures, and let the scriptures speak on their own merits; not from a pre-doctrinated view point. The reason for all the doctrines and denominations ( I see it on this board as well) is the simple refusal to take the Bible at face value! God has given us all we need in His Word. His Word is the seed. An apple seed from the first century planted today should produce nothing but an apple tree. Anythig else is proof that it has been tampered with.

all the best...

Sojourner
Apr 25th 2009, 12:33 PM
I'm not sure I understand the issue exactly. Brick and mortar seems to keep coming up in these discussions about The Church. I don't think I have said anywhere in my posts that The Church is a physical building. I agree that denominations came much later. I agree with most of what you say, except that there WAS and still IS in exsistance, a body of believers that holds to the truth of Christs teachings. To identify the One true church, one only needs to examine the scriptures, and let the scriptures speak on their own merits; not from a pre-doctrinated view point. The reason for all the doctrines and denominations ( I see it on this board as well) is the simple refusal to take the Bible at face value! God has given us all we need in His Word. His Word is the seed. An apple seed from the first century planted today should produce nothing but an apple tree. Anythig else is proof that it has been tampered with.Good point, touche! Neither is man-made organized religion. God's church doesn't have a registered and copyrighted name, or tags. The church can be wrapped up in this: : "I and the children which the Lord has gave me." (could be misquoted exactly)


1 Catholicism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Catholicism)

1.1 Anglican Communion (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Anglican_Communion)
1.2 Assyrian Church of the East (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Assyrian_Church_of_the_East)
1.3 Eastern Orthodox Church (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Eastern_Orthodox_Church)
1.4 Oriental Orthodox Church (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Oriental_Orthodox_Church)
1.5 Roman Catholic Church (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Roman_Catholic_Church)
1.5.1 Latin Rite (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Latin_Rite)
1.5.2 Eastern Catholic Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Eastern_Catholic_Churches)
1.6 Other Churches that call themselves Catholic (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Other_Churches_that_call_themselves _Catholic)
1.6.1 Roman (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Roman)
1.6.2 (Continuing and Independent) Anglican (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#.28Continuing_and_Independent.29_An glican)
1.6.3 Orthodox (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Orthodox)
1.6.3.1 Byzantine (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Byzantine)
1.6.3.2 Oriental (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Oriental)
1.6.3.3 Western-Rite (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Western-Rite)


2 Protestantism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Protestantism)

2.1 Pre-Lutheran Protestants (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Pre-Lutheran_Protestants)
2.2 Lutheranism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Lutheranism)
2.3 Reformed Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Reformed_Churches)
2.3.1 Presbyterianism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Presbyterianism)
2.3.2 Congregationalist Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Congregationalist_Churches)
2.4 Anabaptists (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Anabaptists)
2.5 Brethren (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Brethren)
2.6 Methodists (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Methodists)
2.7 Pietists and Holiness Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Pietists_and_Holiness_Churches)
2.8 Baptists (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Baptists)
2.8.1 Spiritual Baptists (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Spiritual_Baptists)
2.9 Apostolic Churches - Irvingites (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Apostolic_Churches_-_Irvingites)
2.10 Pentecostalism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Pentecostalism)
2.11 Charismatics (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Charismatics)
2.11.1 Neo-Charismatic Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Neo-Charismatic_Churches)
2.12 African Initiated Churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#African_Initiated_Churches)
2.13 United and uniting churches (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#United_and_uniting_churches)
2.14 Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Religious_Society_of_Friends_.28Qua kers.29)
2.15 Restorationism: Stone-Campbell Movement (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Restorationism:_Stone-Campbell_Movement)
2.16 Southcottites (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Southcottites)
2.17 Millerites and Comparable groups (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Millerites_and_Comparable_groups)
2.17.1 Sabbath Keeping Churches, Adventist (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Sabbath_Keeping_Churches.2C_Adventi st)
2.17.2 Sabbath-Keeping Churches, Non-Adventist (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Sabbath-Keeping_Churches.2C_Non-Adventist)
2.17.3 Sunday Adventists (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Sunday_Adventists)
2.17.4 Sacred Name Groups (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Sacred_Name_Groups)
2.17.5 Bible Student Groups (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Bible_Student_Groups)
2.18 Anglo-Israelism (http://bibleforums.org/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=2054936#Anglo-Israelism)

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 12:55 PM
Sojourner (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=11117), For someone who can get green around the gills. you have made some very good points! :o

What I find interesting and perhaps you may as well' that for those who truly believe in the one church, how many you suppose, talk a good story but don't walk it and are affiliated with a denomination?

Would you care to hazard a guess?

Tomlane :D

Sojourner
Apr 25th 2009, 01:01 PM
Sojourner (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=11117), For someone who can get green around the gills. you have made some very good points! :o

What I find interesting and perhaps you may as well' that for those who truly believe in the one church, how many you suppose, talk a good story but don't walk it and are affiliated with a denomination?

Would you care to hazard a guess?

Tomlane :DYour not resting! I told you to rest and I mean it. :B

SoldierOfChrist
Apr 25th 2009, 03:27 PM
Hi Soldier. I believe it is right to look at one church as Gods official Church. To claim otherwise, is to say that Christ failed in establishing His Church. This Church is still in exsistance and shall be till the end, as per the promise. The church is know by its adherence to the teachings of Christ. (John 8:31)

How can a "church" founded by someone other than Christ and teaching contrary doctrines and gospels, be a part of His church?

all the best...Yes, there is one church but you can't see it. Christ is the corner stone of the church and the church is spiritual, not a building, race, nationality, or a religion. The church is the body of believers that have his spirit... period! He gives his spirit to whom ever he wishes! Belonging to this or that religion does not make you a member of his church!

Many churches take on themselves the teaching that should come from the spirit only.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Corinthians 8:1 ... Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Man can teach some things, but the love comes from God directly.

Michael

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 03:45 PM
Kay-gee, excellent question! Don't you think the only way we can be put into it, {immersed} done supernaturally by the Holy Spirit? God puts us into him and he puts Himself {Holy Spirit} into us. A dual exchange, Us him him {his church} and He in us. No wonder the bonds can't be broken by sin. What do you think of that?

Tomlane

Dani H
Apr 25th 2009, 03:47 PM
If you're adhering to outward ordinances, no matter where they stem from, and even if they're "torah" based, that makes you no more part of the Church than those who rely on more modern denominational trappings.

Again, to be part of the body of Christ, means to be in Christ. It's about a Person, not a belief system. You can believe whatever you want, and say whatever you want, and even manipulate Scripture to whatever degree you want, but if you're not in Him, then you're just not. It's a standing of reality before God, determined by Him alone, and not something we conjure up based on what we think. This isn't about shades of "right beliefs" or "right practices", it's about an actual position and reality before God, according to His purpose. It's about the Person, Jesus Christ, and that's it. And we're either in, or out.

As you have received Jesus, so continue in Him. Because in Him we live and move and have our being. And without Him, we can do nothing.

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 04:02 PM
DaniHansen (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=30996), you are absolutely correct. I also agree with you being in Christ is reality just the same as the law being nailed to the cross is a reality and I'm glad to read you need use any metaphorical words. {Ahem, Sojourner, my friend}.

Tomlane

Sojourner
Apr 25th 2009, 06:55 PM
DaniHansen (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=30996), you are absolutely correct. I also agree with you being in Christ is reality just the same as the law being nailed to the cross is a reality and I'm glad to read you need use any metaphorical words. {Ahem, Sojourner, my friend}.

TomlaneHow did you get that we were friends. :P

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 08:51 PM
Sojourner, I didn't say I know we are friends. So, relax. Probably the best way to put it would be like the radio preachers {And I'm not one nor am I any kind of spiritual leader, just a sinner saved by grace}you know how loosely they use the term friend? They call you a friend wither you are or not, it part of their persona. So in that capacity friend, that is my persona. How was that friend?

Tomlane :lol:

kay-gee
Apr 25th 2009, 09:32 PM
If you're adhering to outward ordinances, no matter where they stem from, and even if they're "torah" based, that makes you no more part of the Church than those who rely on more modern denominational trappings.

Again, to be part of the body of Christ, means to be in Christ. It's about a Person, not a belief system. You can believe whatever you want, and say whatever you want, and even manipulate Scripture to whatever degree you want, but if you're not in Him, then you're just not. It's a standing of reality before God, determined by Him alone, and not something we conjure up based on what we think. This isn't about shades of "right beliefs" or "right practices", it's about an actual position and reality before God, according to His purpose. It's about the Person, Jesus Christ, and that's it. And we're either in, or out.

As you have received Jesus, so continue in Him. Because in Him we live and move and have our being. And without Him, we can do nothing.

Yeah, but everybody believes themselves to be in Christ. In the end many are going to be surprised to find heaven closed to them, because they were dis-obedient to Him. Sorry to dissapoint but Christianity is indeed a belief system.

all the best...

kay-gee
Apr 25th 2009, 09:35 PM
Yes, there is one church but you can't see it. Christ is the corner stone of the church and the church is spiritual, not a building, race, nationality, or a religion. The church is the body of believers that have his spirit... period! He gives his spirit to whom ever he wishes! Belonging to this or that religion does not make you a member of his church!

Many churches take on themselves the teaching that should come from the spirit only.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Corinthians 8:1 ... Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Man can teach some things, but the love comes from God directly.

Michael

If one "can't see it", then how would one become a member of it?

all the best...

Sojourner
Apr 25th 2009, 09:36 PM
Sojourner, I didn't say I know we are friends. So, relax. Probably the best way to put it would be like the radio preachers {And I'm not one nor am I any kind of spiritual leader, just a sinner saved by grace}you know how loosely they use the term friend? They call you a friend wither you are or not, it part of their persona. So in that capacity friend, that is my persona. How was that friend?

Tomlane :lol:friend /frɛnd/–noun 1.a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.2.a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony. 3.a person who is on good terms with another; a person who is not hostile: Who goes there? Friend or foe? 4.a member of the same nation, party, etc.5.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a member of the Religious Society of Friends; a Quaker.

a person who is on good terms with another - thats us Tomlane, ah. :hug:

SoldierOfChrist
Apr 25th 2009, 10:17 PM
If one "can't see it", then how would one become a member of it?

all the best...

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luke 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luke 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

The answer is there.

Michael

Tomlane
Apr 25th 2009, 11:53 PM
friend /frɛnd/–noun 1.a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.2.a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony. 3.a person who is on good terms with another; a person who is not hostile: Who goes there? Friend or foe? 4.a member of the same nation, party, etc.5.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a member of the Religious Society of Friends; a Quaker.

a person who is on good terms with another - thats us Tomlane, ah. :hug:

:bounce: I suppose if I take you to the Boston Symphony and we not not hostile and we are members of the same nation, you get in into the Boston Symphoney for free? But mind you we don't want give the liberals the wrong idea. :rolleyes: What some people won't do for a free concert. How about if I just send you a CD of Garnagie Hall doing push ups? Tomlane

kay-gee
Apr 26th 2009, 02:50 AM
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luke 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luke 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

The answer is there.

Michael

I think I see where you are going with it. The fact remains that the Church exsisted in the first century. Paul and Peter were members etc...They wrote letters to the churches. I am sure you could have gone to any of the cities and located a congregation and met with them in their assembly. They certainly were not invisible!

all the best...

Vhayes
Apr 26th 2009, 02:57 AM
Ephesians 2
19 - So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,
20 - having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 - in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,

Each child of God becomes a stone in the Lords temple.
V

Sojourner
Apr 26th 2009, 09:35 AM
:bounce: I suppose if I take you to the Boston Symphony and we not not hostile and we are members of the same nation, you get in into the Boston Symphoney for free? But mind you we don't want give the liberals the wrong idea. :rolleyes: What some people won't do for a free concert. How about if I just send you a CD of Garnagie Hall doing push ups? TomlaneHuh! Come again. I haven't a clue to what you are saying, friend. :P:):hug:;) Edit: Oh, you are referring to the definetion of -friend- Friends of the Boston Symphony, I didn't even read that, I over look it.
Q: are we highjacking this thread?

Tomlane
Apr 26th 2009, 01:56 PM
Sojourner, Yes we got it hijacked and the FBI is on to us.

Your Advert here


Hosted by Webnet77