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Scubadude
Apr 23rd 2009, 10:31 AM
1 Peter 2

1Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.



What is spiritual milk?

Walstib
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:07 PM
Having a new baby made this make that much more sense. We all start out as babes. Learn things like love each other. Very milky.

If we can't get past that we remain in our Father's discipline to work it out, we remain fleshy, we can't truly digest the meatier/deeper things. Not just know them but live them.

It's not just about looking at the food but being sustained on it. You are what you eat. :P

Peace,
Joe


And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? (1Co 3:1-3 NASB)
In that day the LORD of hosts will become a beautiful crown And a glorious diadem to the remnant of His people; A spirit of justice for him who sits in judgment, A strength to those who repel the onslaught at the gate. And these also reel with wine and stagger from strong drink: The priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, They are confused by wine, they stagger from strong drink; They reel while having visions, They totter when rendering judgment. For all the tables are full of filthy vomit, without a single clean place. "To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'" Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive. (Isa 28:5-13 NASB)
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. (Heb 5:12-14 6:1-3 NASB)
'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.(Rev 3:19-21 NASB)

RabbiKnife
Apr 23rd 2009, 12:50 PM
1 Peter 2

1Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.



What is spiritual milk?

From the context, "spiritual milk" would appear to be the absence of malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander."

Tomlane
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:25 PM
Lets add any type of heresy to the milk of the word. When believers learn to put their trust in the Lord for one faith, and one body for fellowship they will be growing spiritually and when they learn to get away from denominational doctrines and learn God's will for the body of believers that God has ordained for us to walk by grace only then that I believe is showing a measure of maturity.

Tomlane

Scubadude
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:36 PM
Having a new baby made this make that much more sense. We all start out as babes. Learn things like love each other. Very milky.

If we can't get past that we remain in our Father's discipline to work it out, we remain fleshy, we can't truly digest the meatier/deeper things. Not just know them but live them.

It's not just about looking at the food but being sustained on it. You are what you eat. :P

Peace,
Joe


Hay, congrats on the new baby!

So, you are saying that the term infant is not intended to be very flattering? Tell me if I'm following you. Children, while giving us joy, are also utterly self absorbed. By just the very nature of being an infant, they are completely dependent on you to keep them alive. They would starve to death if we didn't put the nipple in their mouths for them, and latter spoon feed them for some time. They are immature because they just read the bible (look at the food) and because they do not grow in wisdom and love (christian anorexic). Therefore, we need to do all those things they ought to be doing themselves? The metaphor gets a little mixed.


*And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? (1Co 3:1-3 NASB)*

And:

*For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. (Heb 5:12-14 6:1-3 NASB)


Do you think all new christians should be looked at from this perspective? It doesn't bring to mind thoughts of being more than a conqueror, a brother to Christ and a fellow heir.

Walstib
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:53 PM
I was thinking about this and think I took the wrong angle and got talking more about meat than milk.

The spiritual milk to be craved is the context of the verse you posted.

I thankfully don't have the same relationship with God that I started out with. I mean it was awesome, I hardly knew anything and wanted to know everything. I cried out to God (DADDY!) for what I needed to lean of Him. It's not like I am more saved than I was before but I am comfortable is saying I have at least matured some. ;)

It's not the same now as it was, nor should it be I think. Growth. We are exhorted to mature all over the place, but all start out as babes who need milk.

It's like building a house.... you need to start with attitude dedicated to proper construction and a good foundation. Take your time with it and get it right. The foundation is good, like the milk is good.

Craving the foundational teachings and desired attitude off the start, when born again, will lead to a well built house. At least less problems along the way you have to go back and fix.

-SEEKING-
Apr 23rd 2009, 05:59 PM
In comparing believers to newborn infants, Peter is not saying that they are immature in their faith but that all Christians are to be like infants in their longing for pure spiritual milk, which likely refers to God's Word (cf. 1:23–25). “Spiritual” comes from Greek logikos, which echoes “word” (logos) of 1:23.

Scubadude
Apr 23rd 2009, 06:01 PM
From the context, "spiritual milk" would appear to be the absence of malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander."


I think so, but achieving such a tall order sounds unattainable without the ability to chew on some very meaty concepts. Getting rid of hypocrisy is just one in that list, and it ain't easy to always be consistent in everything that a person believes and does.

Are you saying the absence of wickedness is spiritual milk? How would you feed that to a new christian?

Walstib
Apr 23rd 2009, 06:09 PM
So, you are saying that the term infant is not intended to be very flattering? Tell me if I'm following you. Children, while giving us joy, are also utterly self absorbed. By just the very nature of being an infant, they are completely dependent on you to keep them alive. They would starve to death if we didn't put the nipple in their mouths for them, and latter spoon feed them for some time. They are immature because they just read the bible (look at the food) and because they do not grow in wisdom and love (christian anorexic). Therefore, we need to do all those things they ought to be doing themselves? The metaphor gets a little mixed.


Do you think all new christians should be looked at from this perspective? It doesn't bring to mind thoughts of being more than a conqueror, a brother to Christ and a fellow heir.

Ahh you noticed... I just saw this post now. I hope I cleared this up in my last post. Just add a few thoughts.

There is nothing wrong with being a baby christian off the start.

If one remain a babe their whole walk they are still a christian.

It is not honoring God to stay a babe.

You don't have to stop drinking milk if you have moved onto solid food.

Peace,
Joe

John146
Apr 23rd 2009, 06:35 PM
1 Peter 2

1Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

What is spiritual milk?Hebrews 5:12-6:3
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.

Spiritual milk is referring to the basics of Christian doctrine. Everything I bolded in the passage above refers to spiritual milk. New Christians have to learn those before moving on to spiritual meat. So, at first, spiritual milk is to be craved because you need that before you're ready for spiritual meat. But we are encouraged to not continue only taking in spiritual milk but to move on to strong spiritual meat as we grow spiritually.

Scubadude
May 6th 2009, 10:57 PM
I have been looking for examples of when someone was administered spiritual milk. And it only left me with more questions.

Was Peter's time, before he received the Holy Spirit and preached the gospel, with Jesus his time to be fed spiritual milk?

If so, what did that look like? When was it taking place, that we may find en example?

If not, does that mean not everyone needs to first eat spiritual milk before moving on to meat?

When did Peter display a need for spiritual milk?

Did he get it?





Any thoughts out there?

Scubadude
May 6th 2009, 11:03 PM
Spiritual milk is referring to the basics of Christian doctrine. Everything I bolded in the passage above refers to spiritual milk. New Christians have to learn those before moving on to spiritual meat. So, at first, spiritual milk is to be craved because you need that before you're ready for spiritual meat. But we are encouraged to not continue only taking in spiritual milk but to move on to strong spiritual meat as we grow spiritually.



Can you help find en example in the Bible where this is true? When has spiritual milk been given someone before moving on to meat? I'm having a difficult time, considering it sounds like milk is given to 'fleshy' Christians who aren't motivated to know the Lord deeper. Just thinking out loud.

Dani H
May 7th 2009, 02:28 AM
I look at milk as the foundation. Milk, specifically breast milk, is good, and does such nice things as bringing solidity to our skeletal system, fortifying our immune system (which will stick with us for the rest of our lives), giving us the basic nutrients that our bodies need, and so forth. Which is why we are to desire it when we first come to Christ, and ingest the foundational teachings and become strong in them.

Who Jesus is, what He did, who God is, the integrity of Scripture, what love is, what it isn't. The simple things. The straightforward, foundational things. The ones that matter and that for the rest of our walks with God, we will always come back to and stand on because they are the foundation. How can you build a house if the foundation is wobbly? You can't. The whole house will be lopsided and lack structural integrity and will stand in danger of collapsing. And so milk is important.

But then there comes a point where it's expected that milk isn't your primary source anymore. If I still make breast milk my primary source of nourishment as a 20-year-old, there is something very wrong. If I still am not secure in the foundational teachings of Christianity after having been found in Christ for a number of years, something is wrong, wouldn't you agree?

I don't think that Paul was referring to any milk, but specifically breast milk and specifically in the context of feeding a young child. Because of course we still drink milk as grown-ups (most of us do) but certainly not breast milk, and we fortify our diets with a host of other foods, including meat, which speaks of partaking of the more difficult things that demand that we use our teeth and chew on them and deal with them in more mature ways than just suckling at our mother's breast or a bottle, because it requires more work from us (which is expected from a certain point on). There comes a point where we have to wean ourselves from being spoon fed (or bottle fed/breast fed) by somebody else and learn to walk on our own, so that we then in turn can feed others instead of always looking for our own nourishment without ever nourishing others.

I love that whole concept Paul presents, because it is so rich in meaning and absolutely makes sense if you think about it in all of its implication.

I do think Peter received his milk in his 3 years with the Lord. And probably meat, too. Rember Jesus' command to him to feed his sheep. You can only feed others if you're strong yourself and only that which you yourself have and know. And you can only feed others once you're weaned yourself. But how many times did Jesus speak to them in parables because his disciples couldn't understand the plain meaning of His words? That's milk, not meat, in my opinion.

Scubadude
May 17th 2009, 06:18 AM
I look at milk as the foundation. Milk, specifically breast milk, is good, and does such nice things as bringing solidity to our skeletal system, fortifying our immune system (which will stick with us for the rest of our lives), giving us the basic nutrients that our bodies need, and so forth. Which is why we are to desire it when we first come to Christ, and ingest the foundational teachings and become strong in them.

Who Jesus is, what He did, who God is, the integrity of Scripture, what love is, what it isn't. The simple things. The straightforward, foundational things. The ones that matter and that for the rest of our walks with God, we will always come back to and stand on because they are the foundation. How can you build a house if the foundation is wobbly? You can't. The whole house will be lopsided and lack structural integrity and will stand in danger of collapsing. And so milk is important.

But then there comes a point where it's expected that milk isn't your primary source anymore. If I still make breast milk my primary source of nourishment as a 20-year-old, there is something very wrong. If I still am not secure in the foundational teachings of Christianity after having been found in Christ for a number of years, something is wrong, wouldn't you agree?

I don't think that Paul was referring to any milk, but specifically breast milk and specifically in the context of feeding a young child. Because of course we still drink milk as grown-ups (most of us do) but certainly not breast milk, and we fortify our diets with a host of other foods, including meat, which speaks of partaking of the more difficult things that demand that we use our teeth and chew on them and deal with them in more mature ways than just suckling at our mother's breast or a bottle, because it requires more work from us (which is expected from a certain point on). There comes a point where we have to wean ourselves from being spoon fed (or bottle fed/breast fed) by somebody else and learn to walk on our own, so that we then in turn can feed others instead of always looking for our own nourishment without ever nourishing others.

I love that whole concept Paul presents, because it is so rich in meaning and absolutely makes sense if you think about it in all of its implication.

I do think Peter received his milk in his 3 years with the Lord. And probably meat, too. Rember Jesus' command to him to feed his sheep. You can only feed others if you're strong yourself and only that which you yourself have and know. And you can only feed others once you're weaned yourself. But how many times did Jesus speak to them in parables because his disciples couldn't understand the plain meaning of His words? That's milk, not meat, in my opinion.


Very interesting thoughts. And I agree for the most part. The Lord does give us more as He see's we can accept, and that movement forward in our growth can be looked at as eating more solid foods. With milk being the truths we alway come back to when meat (searching for guidence in the midts of trials) gets too much for us. It sounds like you are saying no matter what, we always have milk (Got milk? Ha!)

It isn't easy putting words to a definition of "spiritual milk". At one point Paul says it means the christian is "fleshy" and unspiritual, something to be moved away from, God permiting. I've heard your understanding of spiritual milk to mean "foundational" doctrines, something that should be focused on in order to add more to the christian walk, but I don't think that is right.

Using the analogy of breast milk isn't supported in scripture. I know the benifits of giving babies the breast. And, to some extent, there is some cross over when making a comparison between a new christian suckling breast milk. The problem, as I see it, is in application in the discipleship relationship.

The analogy sounds like something that a woman can easly relate to, as it is a picture of mother love for a defencless infant. A very beutiful picture, but not easy to relate to for a guy. Just like a lot of men have difficulty picturing themselves as a bride in a beutiful white wedding gown, preparing himself to receive his husband for the great wedding feast. When I consider how I will relate to a man I've prayed with, not only is the breast suckling image the farthest thing fromm my mind, it sounds unfitting when discussing an adult. I hope you see my delema.

Understanding what love is is a foundational truth, but it is one that is never fully understood, as God is love and we will never see the end to the depths of His love. It is a foundational truth that has so many facets to it, how do you teach about it and say the new christian has "arived" at some point as to justify moving on to meat?

Scubadude
May 17th 2009, 01:26 PM
Just finished chatting with a friend. I asked him his thoughts reguarding spiritual milk. His responce, "Your assuption in asking the question requires a point of demarkation. One day I wasn't a christian, the next day I was. We can point to C.S Lewis who discribed his experience on a motor cycle, driving to work and getting there a new creation. But, this is not hte typical experience. God has planned before time was time that you know Him. If you look close enough, you will see Him in your heart long before you were willing to acknowledge Him publicaly." He went on to discuss the significance of God's involvement with man, and why some think it is useful to catagorize new christians as "new". His opinion was it stems more from an American assumption that giving something a catagory provides the illusion of control and manageablility. Relationship naturally caries with it the element of mystery, unpredictability, uncontrolable beuty that positions us in a very vulnerable position. Humility. More often than not, saying that new christians need spiritual milk before they can accept spiritual meat is another way of saying "I am the one teaching you.", and not the other way around. Children are God's gift to selfish people.

Brother Mark
May 17th 2009, 02:13 PM
1 Peter 2

1Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.



What is spiritual milk?

Milk is that which is already digested for you. The mother has taken solid food and made milk with it in order to nourish the child. Spiritual milk is that which has already been digested for us. It can be from a lesson that a preacher gives us today. Or made more simply, it can be the very basics of the faith. It is the more simple doctrines that allow us to grow in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I think in this context, it is referring to the word of God and reading it for the basics of the faith just as milk is a basic necessity for a child, so reading the word is a basic necessity for us as believers.

kenramse
May 17th 2009, 07:50 PM
I look at milk as the foundation. Milk, specifically breast milk, is good, and does such nice things as bringing solidity to our skeletal system, fortifying our immune system (which will stick with us for the rest of our lives), giving us the basic nutrients that our bodies need, and so forth. Which is why we are to desire it when we first come to Christ, and ingest the foundational teachings and become strong in them.

Who Jesus is, what He did, who God is, the integrity of Scripture, what love is, what it isn't. The simple things. The straightforward, foundational things. The ones that matter and that for the rest of our walks with God, we will always come back to and stand on because they are the foundation. How can you build a house if the foundation is wobbly? You can't. The whole house will be lopsided and lack structural integrity and will stand in danger of collapsing. And so milk is important.

But then there comes a point where it's expected that milk isn't your primary source anymore. If I still make breast milk my primary source of nourishment as a 20-year-old, there is something very wrong. If I still am not secure in the foundational teachings of Christianity after having been found in Christ for a number of years, something is wrong, wouldn't you agree?

I don't think that Paul was referring to any milk, but specifically breast milk and specifically in the context of feeding a young child. Because of course we still drink milk as grown-ups (most of us do) but certainly not breast milk, and we fortify our diets with a host of other foods, including meat, which speaks of partaking of the more difficult things that demand that we use our teeth and chew on them and deal with them in more mature ways than just suckling at our mother's breast or a bottle, because it requires more work from us (which is expected from a certain point on). There comes a point where we have to wean ourselves from being spoon fed (or bottle fed/breast fed) by somebody else and learn to walk on our own, so that we then in turn can feed others instead of always looking for our own nourishment without ever nourishing others.

I love that whole concept Paul presents, because it is so rich in meaning and absolutely makes sense if you think about it in all of its implication.

I do think Peter received his milk in his 3 years with the Lord. And probably meat, too. Rember Jesus' command to him to feed his sheep. You can only feed others if you're strong yourself and only that which you yourself have and know. And you can only feed others once you're weaned yourself. But how many times did Jesus speak to them in parables because his disciples couldn't understand the plain meaning of His words? That's milk, not meat, in my opinion.

I totally agree, but would like to take this one step further which will raise some additional comments, probably...as I was praying several years ago during my devotions and study, I asked my Lord when I would be partaking of "meat" and no longer "milk." I was astounded when I was answered with one difference between milk and meat that has guided me in not only my understanding but in what I have been able to share with others...Milk is predigested meat! We as babes, suckle from the breast of our mothers or are bottle fed that which has been digested and absorbed into someone else and then provided for us to receive nourishment. Whenever you hear a sermon, read a book, study a thesis or even peruse the replies on this forum, you are gaining information from someone other than from directly from the Holy Spirit. That which you receive is milk, no matter how heady or "deep" the teaching or the understanding of the presenter. They have received "meat" from God and have digested it then have passed it along to you.
When you receive directly from your study of the Word, and God "spins you around" in the spirit while you pray to Him and seek His face over something He has shown you. When he guides you to learn through empirical application of the Word He has had you reading and meditating in and then you see Him demonstrate that Word with His Power, then you have partaken of "meat"
I do not say that reading other work, or following the speaking/teaching of others should be any less than what you do now...I read continuously, loving the "golden nuggets" of revelation that others are able to provide. Yet when God shows me directly and confirms the "milk" that I had previously partaken of and lets me taste of His "meat," I have found that my establishment in the faith and my ability to provide "milk" to others is enhanced tremendously...

Now for some good chocolate chip cookies and a little tasty milk...

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