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manichunter
Apr 26th 2009, 05:44 AM
Now I am not actually confused about the whole issue surrounding this subject, but I am confused about this possible contradiction.


How can I follow Jesus' example of lifestyle and character when He lived a life faithful and obediant to Torah? He did not live a life absent or outside of Torah. He did not demonstrate how to live without the Torah. He actually did the opposite, by showing me how to personally live torah in freedom, with condemnation and bondage that comes from man made ordinances and doctrines that search for self righteousness and justification.

We are commanded to follow Jesus's example, but His living example actually contradicts the doctrine that the torah is done away with. He actually proved that a person who loved the Father with all their heart, mind, and strength could prosper as Abraham and Job did.

He demonstrated grace in His daily life by forgiving people of their sins when they deserved death, but also up held the torah by saying go and sin no more to the same people He forgave of sin. So how is grace new, when Jesus exercised grace before His death and ressurection. Moreover, he commanded His disciples to do the same as well as live as He lived which was within the confines of torah.

Maybe I am reading it wrong? What say you?

moonglow
Apr 26th 2009, 03:50 PM
This really bothers you doesn't it? You have alot of posts up about it...but its kind of confusing I think for most because we aren't sure if you are talking about following every single thing in the torah such as not mixing two type of clothes together, not eating certain foods, stoning people or what? Maybe you have covered that in other threads of yours...I don't know...

My understanding is we are following the torah..maybe not to the degree of things I just mentioned above, but Jesus did say this:
Matthew 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

From my understanding in following these two we can't help but follow the Ten Commandments...in following the Ten we are following the other commandments in the OT.

My next question is this..if Jesus was following the Jewish laws like the Jews were then, then why were the Pharisees and Sadducees constantly on His case? For them the law said (as a for instance here) that anyone could divorce their wife for any reason, even over a burnt dinner..or they saw a woman prettier then their wife...Jesus corrected this and put very strict rules on what is allowed for a divorce. He seemed to be constantly going against their teachings actually...I am wondering what your thoughts are on that?

Also Sunday's aren't a good time for me to get into lengthy discussions so expect a delay in my answering..sorry about that. I can catch up either late tonight or tomorrow.

Here is what looks like a good article on this topic listed on the Christian think tank website...I have had a chance to read through it all yet though...I have read many of his articles and they are all very good.

Good Question…does the NT contradict the Hebrew Bible in its discussions of the 'passing away' of the Mosaic Law? (http://www.christian-thinktank.com/finaltorah.html)

I look forward to hearing your answers so I can better understand your views on this.

God bless

-SEEKING-
Apr 26th 2009, 04:09 PM
Maybe I am reading it wrong? What say you?

Here's all I have to say about this. PLEASE PRAY! And ask God to tell you exactly what this "torah" living is all about. I doubt any of use here are going to be able to help you. I pray that God enlightens you.

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