PDA

View Full Version : three unclean spirits like frogs



Partaker of Christ
Apr 26th 2009, 07:14 PM
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Would it be that all three (dragon, beast and false prophet) are on the scene at the same time?

If so, would we be looking for 14 heads and 20 horns?

quiet dove
Apr 26th 2009, 07:21 PM
i would say they will be on the scene at the same time because Satan so wants to upsurp God, which requires fooling/deceiving people. It also seem to indicate, IMHO, that Satan is imitating the Trinity, or trying to, I think that is a valid possibility of thought there.

But I think the heads and crowns and all describe the political, "nations" part of it, with the one coming from them being the Beast and describing the political ruler aspect. And then also there will be the religious side of it and in pops the False prophet.

Between Satan, the AC and the FP, we may be seeing Satan's attempt and imitating the Trinity. And the heads and horns are the political structure

Searcher1
Apr 26th 2009, 08:40 PM
The dragon is satan. He has the same symbolic heads and horns as the Beast of Rev 13 because he is the one that gave his authority to the beast. In other words the power behind the beast. no mater which head was in power. So this doesn't change the amount of heads or horns.

The 10 horns are only on the one head that represents the last empire. The horns are nations within that last empire.

The false prophet beast is a different entity then that of the first beast. So that second beasts horns are separate from those horns of the first beast. The second beast horns are also representing two nations being part of it's make up. It appears to be a young empire compared to the first beast, or a modern beast, therefore they are small lambs horns. Plus the second beast came up after the first beast making it a modern beast also. The lamb's horns also seem to indicate being on the side of good and yet when it opens it's mouth to speak (as the false prophet. I would assume this means acting like a false prophet concerning Israel) it speaks as satan
.
It is my opinion that at this point we would be able to look around and see what countries could fill this bill. This beast also has a whole lot of pull in the world because they can cause the world to create the image of the first beast. Remembering that beasts, in symbolism is always empires, even an image of one, not just the men that rule over them.

Partaker of Christ
Apr 26th 2009, 08:52 PM
The dragon is satan. He has the same symbolic heads and horns as the Beast of Rev 13 because he is the one that gave his authority to the beast. In other words the power behind the beast. no mater which head was in power. So this doesn't change the amount of heads or horns.

The 10 horns are only on the one head that represents the last empire. The horns are nations within that last empire.

The false prophet beast is a different entity then that of the first beast. So that second beasts horns are separate from those horns of the first beast. The second beast horns are also representing two nations being part of it's make up. It appears to be a young empire compared to the first beast, or a modern beast, therefore they are small lambs horns. Plus the second beast came up after the first beast making it a modern beast also. The lamb's horns also seem to indicate being on the side of good and yet when it opens it's mouth to speak (as the false prophet. I would assume this means acting like a false prophet concerning Israel) it speaks as satan
.
It is my opinion that at this point we would be able to look around and see what countries could fill this bill. This beast also has a whole lot of pull in the world because they can cause the world to create the image of the first beast. Remembering that beasts, in symbolism is always empires, even an image of one, not just the men that rule over them.

Hi Searcher1!

I would say that the heads and the horns are different.

The dragon's seven heads have seven crowns, and the ten horns do not have crowns.

The son of perdition, has no crowns on the seven heads, but the ten horns have crowns.

As for the dragon who gave his authority and seat to the beast, does that mean the dragon now has no authority or seat?

When the Father gave the Son all Authority, did that mean the Father had no Authority?

When Jesus gave His disciples authority to cast out demons etc, did that mean that Jesus was left without or less authority?

Searcher1
Apr 26th 2009, 10:48 PM
Hi Searcher1!

Hi :)


I would say that the heads and the horns are different.


Yes they are.

Are all the horns on one head when we see the forth beast of Daniel. Yes. It only has one head and on it are the horns. Okay now concerning the Beast in Rev, Of the heads five have fallen and one is at the time John was given the vision. Right? Okay so the 7th head remains to come on the scene, so to speak. When it comes it will be the head with the ten horns. right? Because it is the last beast, the same one as the 4th in Daniel. So that means all the horns are on the last head. The head represents kings on hills or kingdoms, of which 5 have fallen and the 6th was in the time of John. So a head is a kingdom and the horns are nations/provinces within the kingdom.




The dragon's seven heads have seven crowns, and the ten horns do not have crowns.


When the dragon is shown in chap 12, the heads, these great empires, of which there were seven, and each empire was ruled by a king, in it's time. Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece in the form of 4 Grecian empires, and the last head with ten horns, which I believe is the Islamic empire. But the seventh had not been killed by war yet and brought back to life when we are shown the symbolism of the dragon in chap 12. When the last head on the beast of Rev 13 is killed then the kingship goes to the ten nations that made up the lands of the empire. This took place at the end of WWI when the Islamic empire was killed by the sword (war). However it still lives through the 10 kings. Not as a empire ruled by one king, but it will come back to life under one king as a revived empire. We see how this happens as we read about the scarlet beast in chap 17. the beast comes back to life as an 8th head which is really one of the 7. The ten kings (nations) must now give their power over to the king of the 8th head so that it be an empire under the rule of one.


The son of perdition, has no crowns on the seven heads, but the ten horns have crowns.

I think it is a mistake to call the Beast/empire the son of perdition as if it is not symbolic of the whole empire but only it's last leader. But I explained this part above.


As for the dragon who gave his authority and seat to the beast, does that mean the dragon now has no authority or seat?


I didn't say that he doesn't have power or a seat just because he gives authority to the beast.

Partaker of Christ
Apr 27th 2009, 11:16 AM
Hi :)


Yes they are.

Are all the horns on one head when we see the forth beast of Daniel. Yes. It only has one head and on it are the horns. Okay now concerning the Beast in Rev, Of the heads five have fallen and one is at the time John was given the vision. Right? Okay so the 7th head remains to come on the scene, so to speak. When it comes it will be the head with the ten horns. right? Because it is the last beast, the same one as the 4th in Daniel. So that means all the horns are on the last head. The head represents kings on hills or kingdoms, of which 5 have fallen and the 6th was in the time of John. So a head is a kingdom and the horns are nations/provinces within the kingdom.

Hi again Searcher1!

Still trying to get my head around this, and I appreciate your imput.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The beast that was and is not, I think is the dragon because, he goes into perdition. The beast (sop) goes into the lake of fire, with the false prophet.



When the dragon is shown in chap 12, the heads, these great empires, of which there were seven, and each empire was ruled by a king, in it's time. Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece in the form of 4 Grecian empires, and the last head with ten horns, which I believe is the Islamic empire. But the seventh had not been killed by war yet and brought back to life when we are shown the symbolism of the dragon in chap 12. When the last head on the beast of Rev 13 is killed then the kingship goes to the ten nations that made up the lands of the empire. This took place at the end of WWI when the Islamic empire was killed by the sword (war). However it still lives through the 10 kings. Not as a empire ruled by one king, but it will come back to life under one king as a revived empire. We see how this happens as we read about the scarlet beast in chap 17. the beast comes back to life as an 8th head which is really one of the 7. The ten kings (nations) must now give their power over to the king of the 8th head so that it be an empire under the rule of one.



I think it is a mistake to call the Beast/empire the son of perdition as if it is not symbolic of the whole empire but only it's last leader. But I explained this part above.

Ok, but I use this 'son of perdition' instead of what others call antichrist.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


I didn't say that he doesn't have power or a seat just because he gives authority to the beast.

Searcher1
Apr 27th 2009, 03:02 PM
The beast that was and is not, I think is the dragon because, he goes into perdition. The beast (sop) goes into the lake of fire, with the false prophet.

But the dragon doesn't. He is locked in the bottomless pit for a 1000 years. Then released for a short time and then goes into the lake of fire (perdition).

This beast is called the scarlet beast, not the red dragon. I know I am sounding picky here. :) but I think this is important. It isn't satan that the woman is sitting on. This is the antichrist beast that we were shown in Rev 13 as the first beast. Even though it is the man of perdition that will be it's leader, I am going to call him the antichrist beast in this explanation just so we can separate what or who is being talked about here.

Okay, let me start by saying there are really only two beasts and one dragon being shown to us in the book of Revelation. A beast is symbolic of an empire ruled by only one person (at a time).

1. the first beast
2. the false prophet beast

The image of the first beast and the scarlet beast are just different views of the first beast.

1. the dragon/satan


So the Image, or look a like of the first beast/empire, is a view of the first beast as a revived empire, same as the 8th head that is one of the seven, which is also a another view of the revived empire of the first beast.

I believe this second view of the beast of Rev 13 shows us the angel behind the man. He was (before being locked in the pit), is not (locked in the pit) but will come out of the pit to go to perdition (lake of fire)

Here is where I see His release out of the pit.

Rev 9:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=9&v=1&t=KJV#comm/11)And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.


The beast is seen as scarlet (red) in this view because this is one of the dragon's fallen angels. And I think the red color is symbolic of that. But a beast is still an earthly empire.

So the beast, an earthly empire, will have Abaddon as being in charge over it. Now whether He is just the angel behind the man, or possess the man, or becomes the form of a man, I don't know.

I would also guess that when the beast is thrown in the lake of fire it is this angel that is thrown in and not human beings, since I believe no human being will be thrown in until the White Throne Judgment at the second death. Notice the second beast isn't identified as the false prophet until the throwing into the lake of fire. I think that is also a fallen angel that God calls by the name of "False prophet".

Notice he doest identify them as the "first beast" and the "second beast" was thrown in. He says the "beast" and the "false prophet". Meaning the fallen angel of the pit and the fallen angel called the false prophet. Just my opinion.

The man of perdition. So what is in that name. It is a man that will go into the lake of fire. All unbelievers are men of perdition.

1Ti 6:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=6&v=9&t=KJV#9)But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifHbr 10:39 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=10&v=39&t=KJV#39)But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gif2Pe 3:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=3&v=7&t=KJV#7)But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


gosh, I forgot where I was going with this. L0l!

I'll just stop here and see if you think I addressed the concern.

Nihil Obstat
Apr 28th 2009, 01:19 AM
Why do you all think these demons look like frogs? Or, perhaps, why do they go out like frogs go out? Weird...

Searcher1
Apr 28th 2009, 01:30 AM
Why do you all think these demons look like frogs? Or, perhaps, why do they go out like frogs go out? Weird...


are you asking about these in this verse?

Rev 16:13 (http://bibleforums.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=13&t=KJV/l13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

bagofseed
Apr 28th 2009, 01:34 AM
Guess they are hopping mad.

bagofseed
Apr 28th 2009, 01:39 AM
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Would it be that all three (dragon, beast and false prophet) are on the scene at the same time?

If so, would we be looking for 14 heads and 20 horns?

Just a thought
Dragon - Asian nations
Beast - Russian bear
False Prophet - Islamic nations

But I am not an expert.

Nihil Obstat
Apr 28th 2009, 01:42 AM
are you asking about these in this verse?

Rev 16:13 (http://bibleforums.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=16&v=13&t=KJV/l13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Yes, I am. Isn't it weird that these are spirits of demons? Not demons, but their spirits. Cp. Eze. 1:20-21; Rev. 5:6...

bagofseed
Apr 28th 2009, 02:21 AM
Lust of the eye
Lust of the flesh
Pride of life

bagofseed
Apr 28th 2009, 02:24 AM
Why like frogs


frogs that overran their land.

Partaker of Christ
May 14th 2009, 10:58 PM
But the dragon doesn't. He is locked in the bottomless pit for a 1000 years. Then released for a short time and then goes into the lake of fire (perdition).

This beast is called the scarlet beast, not the red dragon. I know I am sounding picky here. :) but I think this is important. It isn't satan that the woman is sitting on. This is the antichrist beast that we were shown in Rev 13 as the first beast. Even though it is the man of perdition that will be it's leader, I am going to call him the antichrist beast in this explanation just so we can separate what or who is being talked about here.

Okay, let me start by saying there are really only two beasts and one dragon being shown to us in the book of Revelation. A beast is symbolic of an empire ruled by only one person (at a time).

1. the first beast
2. the false prophet beast

The image of the first beast and the scarlet beast are just different views of the first beast.

1. the dragon/satan


So the Image, or look a like of the first beast/empire, is a view of the first beast as a revived empire, same as the 8th head that is one of the seven, which is also a another view of the revived empire of the first beast.

I believe this second view of the beast of Rev 13 shows us the angel behind the man. He was (before being locked in the pit), is not (locked in the pit) but will come out of the pit to go to perdition (lake of fire)

Here is where I see His release out of the pit.

Rev 9:11 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=9&v=1&t=KJV#comm/11)And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.


The beast is seen as scarlet (red) in this view because this is one of the dragon's fallen angels. And I think the red color is symbolic of that. But a beast is still an earthly empire.

So the beast, an earthly empire, will have Abaddon as being in charge over it. Now whether He is just the angel behind the man, or possess the man, or becomes the form of a man, I don't know.

I would also guess that when the beast is thrown in the lake of fire it is this angel that is thrown in and not human beings, since I believe no human being will be thrown in until the White Throne Judgment at the second death. Notice the second beast isn't identified as the false prophet until the throwing into the lake of fire. I think that is also a fallen angel that God calls by the name of "False prophet".

Notice he doest identify them as the "first beast" and the "second beast" was thrown in. He says the "beast" and the "false prophet". Meaning the fallen angel of the pit and the fallen angel called the false prophet. Just my opinion.

The man of perdition. So what is in that name. It is a man that will go into the lake of fire. All unbelievers are men of perdition.

1Ti 6:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=6&v=9&t=KJV#9)But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifHbr 10:39 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=10&v=39&t=KJV#39)But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gif2Pe 3:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=3&v=7&t=KJV#7)But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


gosh, I forgot where I was going with this. L0l!

I'll just stop here and see if you think I addressed the concern.

Hi Searcher!

I have just had another look at this:

It is the dragon comes out of the bottomless pit, and goes into perdition.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Nihil Obstat
May 14th 2009, 11:08 PM
I've been looking at this some more, too. I see a contrast here between the four living creatures in Eze. 1 and how they move, and these demons' spirits with how they move. The throne chariot of God moves straight forward, and the spirit of the four creatures flash back and forth like flashes of lightning. These three unclean spirits, however, look and even dance about like frogs in a marsh. Interesting. Interesting and weird. - Astro

bagofseed
May 15th 2009, 07:25 AM
I've been looking at this some more, too. I see a contrast here between the four living creatures in Eze. 1 and how they move, and these demons' spirits with how they move. The throne chariot of God moves straight forward, and the spirit of the four creatures flash back and forth like flashes of lightning. These three unclean spirits, however, look and even dance about like frogs in a marsh. Interesting. Interesting and weird. - Astro
How they move, good thought!

I believe that to be a contrast between deliberate, reasoned and controlled, like under authority or going out by rank in regards to the Godly ones and the chaos and free for all way of frogs, or the unreasoning rage of the demonic, frustrated at every turn by God perfect plan of salvation but still they continue to rail against Him and His chosen and seek to destroy as many as they can.

Your Advert here


Hosted by Webnet77