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pekoe
Apr 27th 2009, 02:01 AM
"But you Bethlehem Ephratah though you be little amoung the thousands of Judah yet out of you shall he come forth to me to be ruler in Israel whose goings forth from of old from everlasting." Mic.5:2

It seems Micah is saying that Messiah is eternal.

markedward
Apr 27th 2009, 03:20 AM
The Jewish Publication Society has translated the verse as such into English:

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days."

I would guess that they interpret the phrase "whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days" as simply meaning that the Messiah's ancestry will be "from ancient days".

djh22
Apr 27th 2009, 05:24 PM
I agree markedward,my version has this -

1.And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you (he) shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.


Best.
djh22.

pekoe
Apr 29th 2009, 12:08 PM
Hi markedward.

the phrase "whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days" as simply meaning that the Messiah's ancestry will be "from ancient days".
What's so special about that? Every person who has ever lived has their ancestry from ancient days. I have looked at the hebrew word "olam", translated "everlasting". Is this a correct rendering? If so, "everlasting" doesn't refer to ancestry because Jesus' ancestors had a beginning.

markedward
Apr 29th 2009, 03:37 PM
What's so special about that? Every person who has ever lived has their ancestry from ancient days. I have looked at the hebrew word "olam", translated "everlasting". Is this a correct rendering? If so, "everlasting" doesn't refer to ancestry because Jesus' ancestors had a beginning.You asked me what they believed, and I gave you a probable answer (though you could just PM Fenris and ask him).

So... I don't see why you're debating the point with me, since I agree with you.

crossnote
Apr 30th 2009, 06:00 AM
Hi markedward.

What's so special about that? Every person who has ever lived has their ancestry from ancient days. I have looked at the hebrew word "olam", translated "everlasting". Is this a correct rendering? If so, "everlasting" doesn't refer to ancestry because Jesus' ancestors had a beginning.

Yes and no. Through Mary, yes. Though God, no.

jes83
May 2nd 2009, 12:03 PM
pekoe I always understood the Jewish people to interpret this way too. But when I looked at Daniel 7:13-14 in the Tanakh it seems to be saying that "the Ancient of Days" is Yahweh (God the Father).

pekoe
May 2nd 2009, 01:50 PM
Hi jes83.
I think the Ancient of days in Daniel is God. Some versions of Micah 5:2 make it sound as though Messiah is eternal also. The NT also describes Christ as eternal. I was just wondering how the Jewish people viewed Messiah. I have found that they believe he will be a man who lives and dies and then his descendants will rule after him. Of course, I don't agree with this view.

Ta-An
May 2nd 2009, 04:17 PM
Hi jes83.
I think the Ancient of days in Daniel is God. Some versions of Micah 5:2 make it sound as though Messiah is eternal also. The NT also describes Christ as eternal. I was just wondering how the Jewish people viewed Messiah. I have found that they believe he will be a man who lives and dies and then his descendants will rule after him. Of course, I don't agree with this view.The Jews indeed believe Messiah to be a man.


Micha 5:1


א וְאַתָּה בֵּית-לֶחֶם אֶפְרָתָה, צָעִיר לִהְיוֹת בְּאַלְפֵי יְהוּדָה--מִמְּךָ לִי יֵצֵא, לִהְיוֹת מוֹשֵׁל בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל; וּמוֹצָאֹתָיו מִקֶּדֶם, מִימֵי עוֹלָם

מִימֵיadj. watery, waterish, ichorous, serous, washy; aqueous, aquatic; superficial
עוֹלָם
nm. world, universe, cosmos, creation


nm. reality, real world, realm


nm. eternity

pekoe, I'd say those last two words means :from a sea of eternity :) thus from creation....


Unfortunately Fenris does not post in this forum, but we may ask him a direct question in Contro and ask him to respond there... Just take note.... it is Micha 5:1 in the Hebrew

Ta-An
May 3rd 2009, 10:32 AM
BBE says :Micha 5:2 (1) from the eternal days.
YLT says: .. From the days of antiquity.

Thank you pekoe, I needed this ref.

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