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tgallison
Apr 28th 2009, 09:54 PM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

I cannot read Greek. Can someone translate this for me?

Terrell

Br. Barnabas
Apr 28th 2009, 10:07 PM
I will give it a try when I get home but about to start class right now just wanted to let you know that I would try.

The first word is God if I am not mistaken.

tango
Apr 28th 2009, 10:49 PM
I'm sure someone who actually understands Greek can do better than this, but this is what Babelfish comes up with:

god no-one [eoraken] [popote] the [monogenis] son the [on] to the gulf [patros] that [exigisato]

Ixthus
Apr 28th 2009, 10:49 PM
I am going to try and piece it together along with tango but this is what I got.
θεον (God) ουδεις (no one) εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος (son) ο ων εις (into) τον (the) κολπον (bay/gulf) του πατρος (of the father) εκεινος (he)εξηγησατο (can mean "go before" or "be a leader" along with some other meanings)

I've never heard of the word μονογενης; couldn't find it either.

RogerW
Apr 28th 2009, 11:27 PM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

I cannot read Greek. Can someone translate this for me?

Terrell


Hi Terrell,

I can't read Greek either, but here is a transliteration you might find helpful:

God not-yet-one has-seen ?as-?when the only-generated God the one-being into the bosom of-the father that-one unfolds

English translation Concordant Version of Sacred Scripture:

Now no one has ever seen God: the only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, [He] unfolds Him.

Many Blessings,
RW

tgallison
Apr 29th 2009, 11:18 AM
I will give it a try when I get home but about to start class right now just wanted to let you know that I would try.

The first word is God if I am not mistaken.

Uriel Greetings

Thank you for your reply.

Terrell

tgallison
Apr 29th 2009, 11:19 AM
I'm sure someone who actually understands Greek can do better than this, but this is what Babelfish comes up with:

god no-one [eoraken] [popote] the [monogenis] son the [on] to the gulf [patros] that [exigisato]

tango greetings

Never heard of Babelfish.

Thank you, Terrell

tgallison
Apr 29th 2009, 11:39 AM
I am going to try and piece it together along with tango but this is what I got.
θεον (God) ουδεις (no one) εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος (son) ο ων εις (into) τον (the) κολπον (bay/gulf) του πατρος (of the father) εκεινος (he)εξηγησατο (can mean "go before" or "be a leader" along with some other meanings)

I've never heard of the word μονογενης; couldn't find it either.


It is transliterated monogenes. (μονογενης;)

Since I knew what verse it was, I should have told you. It is someones text and since I cannot read Greek I though perhaps one of those who are highly skilled in Greek might read it in detail so I could be more clear on it. I think I know what it says, but do not like to make mistakes.

Thank you for your effort, Terrell

tgallison
Apr 29th 2009, 11:44 AM
Hi Terrell,

I can't read Greek either, but here is a transliteration you might find helpful:

God not-yet-one has-seen ?as-?when the only-generated God the one-being into the bosom of-the father that-one unfolds

English translation Concordant Version of Sacred Scripture:

Now no one has ever seen God: the only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, [He] unfolds Him.

Many Blessings,
RW

RW greetings

You have only-begotten God and I believe υιος means son, and you have God twice. I do not know how to put those words together and wanted to be sure of its exact reading before I commented on it.

Thank you for your effort, Terrell

daughter
Apr 29th 2009, 11:50 AM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατοθεον God ουδεις no-one [absolutely nobody, of any gender or species or type] εωρακεν has seen/discerned/gazed upon πωποτε at any time ο μονογενης υιος except the only born son ο ων εις τον the one being in κολπον του πατρος the bosom of the Father εκεινοςthat one εξηγησατο declared/revealed Him.

I would translate it as:

Nobody has seen God ever, except the only begotten Son, the One in the bosom of the Father... That One has revealed Him.

daughter
Apr 29th 2009, 11:56 AM
The trick is that when you see a word and don't understand it, you can sometimes break it down into two words you do understand. So μονογενης is obviously related to a word we do know, even in English... genesis (thing generations, genitive case, generate... ie, beginings. It's to do with birth. So when you spot it in a word, you can sometimes "guess" it's to do with birth, or beginnings, even if you don't know for sure. In this case it means "born." Mono again is a word you can remember from English... it means one, only, as in mono rail, mono syllabic.

Hence you could, even without a lexicon, work out, "only born."

Of course, it helps to have a Greek lexicon!

tgallison
Apr 29th 2009, 12:30 PM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατοθεον God ουδεις no-one [absolutely nobody, of any gender or species or type] εωρακεν has seen/discerned/gazed upon πωποτε at any time ο μονογενης υιος except the only born son ο ων εις τον the one being in κολπον του πατρος the bosom of the Father εκεινοςthat one εξηγησατο declared/revealed Him.

I would translate it as:

Nobody has seen God ever, except the only begotten Son, the One in the bosom of the Father... That One has revealed Him.

Daughter greetings

That is what I was hoping it said.

Thank you very much, Terrell

Scruffy Kid
Apr 29th 2009, 07:54 PM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

I cannot read Greek. Can someone translate this for me?
John 1:18 reads:
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο

No man................... g3762 ... οὐδείς oudeis
has seen.................. g3708 ... ὁράω horaō
God........................ g2316 ... θεός theos
at any time;............. g4455 ... πώποτε pōpote
the only begotten ..... g3439 ... μονογενής monogenēs
Son,....................... g5207 ... υἱός huios
who........................ g3588 ... ὁ ho
is........................... g5607 ... ὤν ōn
in........................... g1519 ... εἰς eis
the bosom............... g2859 ... κόλπος kolpos
of the Father,........... g3962 ... πατήρ patēr
he.......................... g1565 ... ἐκεῖνος ekeinos
has declared............ g1834 ... ἐξηγέομαι exēgeomai

KJV: No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
RSV: No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
NASB: No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained [Him.]
NKJV: No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him].
NIV: No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

(I made use of the work of previous posters, and of BLB, in this post.)

RabbiKnife
Apr 29th 2009, 08:06 PM
Ah, I smell "at the right hand" vs. "in the bosom of the father" debate once more.

:B

daughter
Apr 30th 2009, 12:20 PM
Why? κόλπος means bosom, or even womb, but not right hand. :confused

tgallison
Apr 30th 2009, 01:46 PM
Why? κόλπος means bosom, or even womb, but not right hand. :confused

It has to do with position, or location, which to me means on the inside and not the outside. Look at these two verses in relation to Jesus.


Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. KJV Isaiah 40:19-11

Look at positionally the arm to the bosom and where do you find the lambs, along side of, or within.

But that isn't the reason for my question. I had found this verse and wanted to be sure of what it was saying. I thought I knew but wasn't sure. This verse is found in Tischendorf's eighth edition and it says begotten Son, and not begotten God as our new editions due.

Since he collated every one of the top six Alexandrian Manuscripts, it seems like he should know what was in them. He choose begotten Son over begotten God.

I have another question for you. Why would one translator transliterate the Greek word παῖδα (http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/3816.htm) pais (paheece) and another transliterate it paida?

Thank you, Terrell

tgallison
May 1st 2009, 01:04 PM
Can you help with this Greek word παῖς (παῖδα (http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/3816.htm)) and these two transliterated words pais (paheece) and paida?


It has to do with servant and son. I found them in Tischendorf's eighth edition and also Kurt Aland's work. One was translated son in Tischendorf's work, and the other was translated servant in Kurt Aland's work. It has to do with Acts 3:13 and 3:36.

What is the difference between pais(paheece) and paida?

Thank you, Terrell

tgallison
May 2nd 2009, 01:22 AM
In looking up the meaning of pais and paida this meaning came across as the best one.

From the 'little' Liddell and Scott Ancient Greek Dictionary: "paideia: the rearing or bringing up of a child : teaching, education, discipline, correction. II. youth, childhood. III. handiwork." The root is 'pais', or which declines in the genitive as 'paidos', hence the 'paid-' root, which shows up in latin as 'paed-' and in American english as 'ped-'. 'Pais' means a child, a son or a daughter, a boy, a girl, or, like 'puer' in Latin, a slave or servant. The word does not really mean slave, but rather the slave is was given the title of child, just as waiters are sometimes referred to as 'garÁon', or black people referred to as 'boy.' 'Paid-' forms the root of 'paidagogos'. 'Ago' means lead, and so a paidagogos is one who leads a child. From the dictionary: "attending or training boys... the slave who went with a boy from home to school and back again : hence generally, a tutor, teacher, instructor." Paidagogos does not derive it's application to the slave because 'paid' means slave. Some slaves were called paidagogos because of their function within the household. All of these words derive their meaning from pais, or child. I hope that clarifies things a bit for any future editor.

What was found in trying to learn about these two words was the fact that Muslims wish that servant was applied to Jesus everywhere in our Bible for they say he was only a prophet. They cheered when the NIV replaced son with servant in Acts 3:13 and 3:26. You may not think it matters, but they do.

I thought maybe someone else would do my homework for me, but when that is done you don't learn as much.

With that I would like to close this thread.

Terrell

scottinnj
May 2nd 2009, 04:15 AM
θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

I cannot read Greek. Can someone translate this for me?

Terrell



John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Ta-An
May 2nd 2009, 11:54 AM
It has to do with position, or location, which to me means on the inside and not the outside. Look at these two verses in relation to Jesus.


Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. KJV Isaiah 40:19-11

Look at positionally the arm to the bosom and where do you find the lambs, along side of, or within.

But that isn't the reason for my question. I had found this verse and wanted to be sure of what it was saying. I thought I knew but wasn't sure. This verse is found in Tischendorf's eighth edition and it says begotten Son, and not begotten God as our new editions due.

Since he collated every one of the top six Alexandrian Manuscripts, it seems like he should know what was in them. He choose begotten Son over begotten God.

Terrell, so what do you do with these verses??
Lk 16:22 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=16&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Lk 16:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=16&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

:hmm: :hmm:

Walstib
May 2nd 2009, 12:10 PM
With that I would like to close this thread.

Well I can't see a problem with that myself.:)

Anything people want to keep discussing can be started in a new thread.

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