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truthseeker87
May 1st 2009, 01:39 AM
In Mt. 11:25, Jesus thanks his father far hiding the things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

In todays world, what is it that has been hidden from the smart and educated?

σяєяυииєя
May 1st 2009, 02:14 AM
Hi Seeker;

I would dare to say that one option would be: Jesus yoke as a few verses after Mt. 11:25 states:


Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Mt 11:28-30

Thus what has been hidden from the wise and learned would be the humbleness in heart, Jesus yoke...

Peace-

THOM
May 1st 2009, 02:15 AM
In Mt. 11:25, Jesus thanks his father far hiding the things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

In todays world, what is it that has been hidden from the smart and educated?

Spiritual Realities (see verse 27).

dan
May 1st 2009, 04:02 AM
In Mt. 11:25, Jesus thanks his father far hiding the things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

In todays world, what is it that has been hidden from the smart and educated?

...For every purpose, under heaven.

ECCLES 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
ECCLES 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [that which is] planted;
ECCLES 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
ECCLES 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
ECCLES 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
ECCLES 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
ECCLES 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
ECCLES 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

All these things may come to your life, and, under the right conditions, you should be able to perform them.

THOM
May 1st 2009, 01:21 PM
It's not talking about a smart or educated person per se. It's talking about basically pastors and priests who supposedly know the scriptures and what it teaches. Particularly those within churches who are supposed to know doctrine but are blinded to truth.

It is Exactly the "smart and educated person", from worldly sources and/or resources that Matthew 11: 25 addresses. These are people who bring to the Table of GOD'S Spiritual TRUTHS, their Adulthood (which has been gained by and through Worldly means), their "sophos (which is what 'wise' means in the Greek text)", and their "synetos (which is what 'prudent/intelligent' means in the Greek text)".

JESUS CHRIST is stating here that SPIRITUAL REALITY is "hidden", by GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF, from these kind of folks who attempt to understand, let alone enter into, GOD'S REALITY. JESUS is further stating that The TRUTHS SPIRITUAL REALITY is ONLY revealed to "babes". The reasons being is because, "Even so, FATHER: for so it seemed good in THY sight. (VS. 26)". What JESUS is saying, is "All the Worldly wisdom, prudence and intelligence, gained by Human adults might be and is a good thing to have on Earth. . .but when it comes to gaining, knowing and understanding Spiritual TRUTH and REALITY, GOD THE FATHER ONLY Reveals that to Spiritual 'babes'".

Spiritual "babes" don't come to the Table with their "I think's", preconceived notions and ideas, "but why not this way's"; Spiritual "babes", don't come to GOD'S Table with solutions, ONLY Problems; They just "empty vessels" needing, ready, wanting, and just waiting, to "be filled".

And at GOD'S Table, Spiritual "babes" readily Accept what GOD offers. . .because they INNATELY and INSTINCTIVELY Trust THE OFFERER!

When was the last time you took that 2am feeding to your Screaming Infant, and he/she said, "you'd better get that bottle away from me"? No, this has never happened because, Instinctively, "babes" knows that you have the Solution to their need, their problem; they don't try and second guess you, question you, reject you, etc. Spiritual "babes" just naturally accept what is Offered because the Trust THE OFFERER, and what is being OFFERED. . .and then they begin to learn all the details, because Spiritual "babes" don't have to be UNLEARNED (a whole bunch of Worldly gobbly gook) by GOD. . .just LEARNED Spiritual TRUTH and REALITY, by HIM.

theBelovedDisciple
May 1st 2009, 02:39 PM
Spiritual Realities (see verse 27).


yep... I agree.. and this is what I"ve been taught..


the light of the body is the 'eye'..

the recognization and discerment of spiritual reality.. both wicked and good.. and in this case..

it was the discernment of wicked spirits.. because the disciples discerned them and rejoiced and told Jesus the Christ......that even the 'devils' are subject unto us by your name...

He turned to them and said.. ''rejoice not that the devils are 'subject' onto you thru My Name..

and this is where it is all at...

but .. Rejoice .. that Your Names are Written in Heaven...

He hides this from the wise and prudent.. but Reveals it unto His Own... those who Believe and Trust in Him with childlike faith.... 'babes' those who are Truly His...

and the same thing goes with the Parables and understanding them.. the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven...

because UNTO YOU.. it has been given to know and understand the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven.. but these that are without.. no..... that it may come to pass.. that seeing ye might see and hearing ye might hear.. but they will not see and will not hear.. that they may understand.. become like little children and be converted and recieve Eternal Life...

and as Paul states.. and it is true... Verily I say unto thee..

that the wisdom of this world... this including religious wisdom put down by the commandments and doctrines of men...

if 'foolishness' with God and it cannot compare to the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven.. and the Wisdom that comes from above...

for I say unto thee...

Blessed are the eyes that see what ye see.. and blessed are the ears which see what ye hear...

for I tell you .. many kings and prophets have desired to see what ye see and hear and have not..

Jesus Truly Brought 'Light' and "Revelation' to the Gospel.. for He is Light .. and in Him is Eternal Life...

theBelovedDisciple
May 1st 2009, 02:43 PM
It's not talking about a smart or educated person per se. It's talking about basically pastors and priests who supposedly know the scriptures and what it teaches. Particularly those within churches who are supposed to know doctrine but are blinded to truth...

Exellent! Your spot on with your comment!

truthseeker87
May 1st 2009, 11:45 PM
Nice post THOM and THE BELOVED DISCIPLE.

Has there been any major Spiritual truth revealed that Christians should know about?

Walstib
May 2nd 2009, 12:27 AM
Hi truthseeker87,

Welcome to the board! Hope you enjoy your stay. :)

How about this one.

We all fall short of the Glory of God without Jesus.

No room for the million other ones here ;)

Peace,
Joe

Ok... I may have exaggerated a bit with the million...

Dani H
May 2nd 2009, 12:33 AM
Has there been any major Spiritual truth revealed that Christians should know about?

Yes.

His name is Jesus.

The great equalizer, who has confined everyone under sin so He could have mercy on all, removed the dividing walls that people always use to distinguish themselves and take sides with, and made His Gospel accessible to anyone who dares believe it. Because we're all one in Him (whether we like it or not). :)

fuzzi
May 2nd 2009, 12:36 AM
In Mt. 11:25, Jesus thanks his father far hiding the things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

In todays world, what is it that has been hidden from the smart and educated?
Let's look at the context of the passage:

"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: ...
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." (Matthew 11:20, 25-27)

And the parallel Scripture from Luke:

"Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him." (Luke 10:20-22)

What has God revealed unto babes?

The simplicity that is Christ, salvation.

A 'wise' man, that is, someone who is educated has a more difficult time accepting the offer of salvation. Children will believe, and ask Jesus to save them, but an educated adult will not, because he/she knows better.

And should we come to the Lord, asking for Him to save us from our sins, because we are intelligent and have used our intellect to understand? Or should we come, as little children, as 'babes', and just believe?

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)

It's not all about us, and how we've figured it out:

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Corinthians 1:19-21)

THOM
May 2nd 2009, 01:00 AM
Nice post THOM and THE BELOVED DISCIPLE.

Has there been any major Spiritual truth revealed that Christians should know about?

Thanks TruthSeeker;

There is one "major Spiritual truth" that has been "revealed", not so much to "Christians", but to everyone else, including atheists, agnostics, other unbelievers, etc.

That "major Spiritual truth", or just "major truth", is that "ALL ROADS" [Ways], do in fact lead to GOD. . .but ONLY ONE of the ROADS [WAY] leads to GOD'S SALVATION and/or Everlasting LIFE.

We might want to start telling Sinners and/or unbeliever that when to tell us that "all roads lead to GOD". . ."It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27)". . .and this one, "And I saw a great white throne, and HIM that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before GOD; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelations 20:11-15)"

crossnote
May 2nd 2009, 06:45 AM
In Mt. 11:25, Jesus thanks his father far hiding the things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

In todays world, what is it that has been hidden from the smart and educated?

What? The same thing that was hidden back then is held back today because the problem remains the same.. Just as the monetary rich tend not to trust in God but their mammon so those who are 'rich' in this world's wisdom tend not to seek God on His terms but rely on their own wisdom. In both cases self sufficiency is their reward.

truthseeker87
May 3rd 2009, 02:33 PM
Baptizing in THE NAME OF THE FATHER,SON AND HOLY GHOST is not taught to do in scripture.

The apostles baptized in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Was that not a revelation to Peter, the one with the KEYS to the kingdom? (mt 16:19)

Did he not have the ROCK/revelation (mt.16:18) that Jesus built his Church on? Who is the Father? Who is The Son? Who is The Holy Spirit? None other than Our Lord Jesus Christ.

RabbiKnife
May 4th 2009, 07:03 PM
Baptizing in THE NAME OF THE FATHER,SON AND HOLY GHOST is not taught to do in scripture.

The apostles baptized in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Was that not a revelation to Peter, the one with the KEYS to the kingdom? (mt 16:19)

Did he not have the ROCK/revelation (mt.16:18) that Jesus built his Church on? Who is the Father? Who is The Son? Who is The Holy Spirit? None other than Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Father.
Jesus is certainly the Son.

truthseeker87
May 13th 2009, 12:45 AM
Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Father.
Jesus is certainly the Son.

Could you prove this with the word RabbiKnife?

RabbiKnife
May 13th 2009, 02:32 PM
Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is most decidedly NOT the Father.
Jesus is certainly the Son.

Could you prove this with the word RabbiKnife?

Sure.

Jesus prays to God. He is not praying to himself.
Jesus says that the Father, a person other than himself, will send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit), again, a person other than either himself or the Father.
At Jesus' baptism, we find Jesus in the water, God speaking from heaven, and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove descending.


How many chapter/verse citations do you need?

truthseeker87
May 14th 2009, 03:23 AM
hey, I understand why you think the way you do now. look hear me out.

IS.9:6 ...and his name shall be....The mighty God, The everlasting Father,.... How many Gods are there?
Only one.
Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. When Jesus was baptized he was man, correct? Now God, the Father was in Heaven speaking to John, right? The Holy Spirit was not a dove like you suppose, read the scriptures, it descended LIKE a dove, it was a LIGHT. Now the Father said, This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased".

Notice In whom, not with whom, he was well pleased to dwell In him
Look at Col. 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" Col. 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

The Father was literally in him(Son), making him(Jesus) him(Father).
"For I and my Father are one." if you don't believe now , your no better than the Pharisees, because they did'nt believe either.

Need more proof, let me know. -Blessings

Prufrock
May 14th 2009, 10:09 PM
I don't know exactly how or why this became a thread about the Trinity, but I've always found the following diagram to be helpful. I'd like to take credit for it, but it's about a thousand years old.....


http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bc/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.png/180px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.png

truthseeker87
May 14th 2009, 11:51 PM
hi prufrock, I've seen that diagram before, and it doesnt make any sence to me. how can they all not be each other, but yet all be one person. so what is it? 3 in 1, or 1 in 3. how does a=z b=z c=z?, and a not =b, b not =c, and c not =a? , your confusing me. 1 God or 3 Gods?

Prufrock
May 15th 2009, 02:22 AM
hi prufrock, I've seen that diagram before, and it doesnt make any sence to me. how can they all not be each other, but yet all be one person. so what is it? 3 in 1, or 1 in 3. how does a=z b=z c=z?, and a not =b, b not =c, and c not =a? , your confusing me. 1 God or 3 Gods?
I'm not confusing you at all. You are attempting to comprehend something, rationally, that cannot be rationally comprehended. That's understandable: we all crack our skulls over things like this. That's human nature - - - and that's part of the problem. Whether you're an atheist or a fundamentalist Christian, you must realize that certain things are simply unfathomable.

It's like eternity. Can you really imagine what eternity means? Something, either God, or the universe, or something outside the universe, had no beginning, and will have no end. I simply can't wrap my mind around that. But my inability to comprehend it doesn't make it untrue.

There is only one God. He exists in three Persons. If you struggle with that, I sympathize; but if you can't believe it, then you really are not, by definition, a Christian in your beliefs. It's possible for a man or woman to be born again, and saved by Jesus Christ, then subsequently doubt these things: if you're in that position, then you're saved, but in your philosophy or theology or whatever, you cannot call yourself a Christian.

What has been called "the genius of Christianity" is its marriage of Jewish mysticism and Greek rationalism. That's true, as far as it goes, but it doesn't make Christianity itself true. Because rationality is finite and imprecise and distorted: no man, according to the Bible, can find God by intellect alone. That's why Buddha is superior, in a way, to the Western philosophers: because he started with the realization that there's something wrong with man's perception. He took it too far, of course, but he was correct.

If every bit of Christian theology could be rationally understood, Christianity still would be no more true, and no less true. The truth of Christianity does not rely upon what you understand, or what I understand (thank God!); it depends on what Jesus Christ did.

It has always amused me that people can't understand the most basic things about human life, but they expect to understand everything about God, or they won't believe. But right now, two of the hottest scientific, medical, legal, and philosophical issues being debated are very simple questions: when does life begin, and when does it end? That's what the abortion and euthanasia debates are all about. Is a fetus really alive? Was Terry Shiavo really alive?

Well, there is much disagreement there. So, if we can't reach a consensus on something as elementary as life itself, why should we expect to understand the nature of an infinite God?

THOM
May 15th 2009, 04:58 AM
hi prufrock, I've seen that diagram before, and it doesnt make any sence to me. how can they all not be each other, but yet all be one person. so what is it? 3 in 1, or 1 in 3. how does a=z b=z c=z?, and a not =b, b not =c, and c not =a? , your confusing me. 1 God or 3 Gods?

I can see your problem in understanding Truth, because most who attempt to explain "The Trinity", start by trying to, FIRST, explain how THREE PERSONS can be ONE GOD, instead of how ONE GOD can be THREE PERSONS


GOD (THE FATHER);

and then we have what GOD SPEAKS,

THE WORD of GOD (JESUS CHRIST), which is non-existent without THE GOD of THE WORD;

and then we have what GOD DISPLAYS,

THE POWER of GOD (THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT), which is non-existent without both THE WORD of GOD, and THE GOD of THE WORD.

fuzzi
May 15th 2009, 11:58 AM
This is a really, really good post, brother. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the subject. :)


I'm not confusing you at all. You are attempting to comprehend something, rationally, that cannot be rationally comprehended. That's understandable: we all crack our skulls over things like this. That's human nature - - - and that's part of the problem. Whether you're an atheist or a fundamentalist Christian, you must realize that certain things are simply unfathomable.

It's like eternity. Can you really imagine what eternity means? Something, either God, or the universe, or something outside the universe, had no beginning, and will have no end. I simply can't wrap my mind around that. But my inability to comprehend it doesn't make it untrue.

There is only one God. He exists in three Persons. If you struggle with that, I sympathize; but if you can't believe it, then you really are not, by definition, a Christian in your beliefs. It's possible for a man or woman to be born again, and saved by Jesus Christ, then subsequently doubt these things: if you're in that position, then you're saved, but in your philosophy or theology or whatever, you cannot call yourself a Christian.

What has been called "the genius of Christianity" is its marriage of Jewish mysticism and Greek rationalism. That's true, as far as it goes, but it doesn't make Christianity itself true. Because rationality is finite and imprecise and distorted: no man, according to the Bible, can find God by intellect alone. That's why Buddha is superior, in a way, to the Western philosophers: because he started with the realization that there's something wrong with man's perception. He took it too far, of course, but he was correct.

If every bit of Christian theology could be rationally understood, Christianity still would be no more true, and no less true. The truth of Christianity does not rely upon what you understand, or what I understand (thank God!); it depends on what Jesus Christ did.

It has always amused me that people can't understand the most basic things about human life, but they expect to understand everything about God, or they won't believe. But right now, two of the hottest scientific, medical, legal, and philosophical issues being debated are very simple questions: when does life begin, and when does it end? That's what the abortion and euthanasia debates are all about. Is a fetus really alive? Was Terry Shiavo really alive?

Well, there is much disagreement there. So, if we can't reach a consensus on something as elementary as life itself, why should we expect to understand the nature of an infinite God?

RabbiKnife
May 15th 2009, 02:41 PM
There is one God (one "what") eternally co-existent in three persons (three "who's").

The doctrine that Jesus is the Father is the Holy Spirit is a doctrine that has been deemed unorthodox for centuries.

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