PDA

View Full Version : What do you think of Alex Jones?



moonglow
May 3rd 2009, 03:52 PM
I want some feedback from members on here about him because I know many do like and follow him and for those that don't...why not? I personally do not like conspiracy theories at all since they usually aren't true. I see alot of Christians all over the internet that use the same type of things he talks about and try to apply them to scriptures regarding the end times...how the beast (or antichrist) will control the world and persecute us Christians. Its not just him by any means that talks about things like new world order, concentration camps being set up to haul us Christians in, 911 being an inside government job, police state, martial law, etc, etc.

Here is one of his latest video's about the swine flu:

Exposing the H1N1 Hoax (http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-tv-weekend-special-exposing-the-h1n1-hoax/)

When you google his name under the website title it says:
The web page of syndicated radio host Alex Jones. Conspiracy-tinted site containing strong opposition to socialism, communism, and the New World Order.

I was only able to listen to part of the first video because my son got up and I don't want him hearing this and getting fearful. I tried to google some of this stuff he mentioned and couldn't find anything. Now I realize he isn't the only one that promotes fear...I think Fox news does a pretty good job on that too along with Glen Beck and some others.

Of course right now regarding the swine flu the media is promoting fear about this...but people like Alex Jones and others do this with pretty much anything and all the time. :(

Jesus tells us over and over again in scriptures to not worry, do not fear...the bible tells us to keep our thoughts on everything lovely and good and pure. I don't see how listening to people like him can't cause anxiety and fear...but that is just my opinion...

I realize I probably offended and insulted many board members on here and for that I am truly sorry. I would just like an honest discussion on this. By the way this topic is a spin off that started on my swine flu thread on the end times form then went to another thread on another form ..if you want those links let me know.

God bless

tango
May 3rd 2009, 05:07 PM
I think a lot of writers focus on the aspects of things we might be afraid of, simply as a way of selling their articles. Let's face it, a newspaper with headlines of "don't worry, everything's going to be fine" is going to be accused of burying the truth or being a mouthpiece of the government (whichever government is in power at the time).

On the other hand, some outlets pump so much doom and gloom they soon get tuned out. Personally any time the government tells me I should be avoiding something I ignore them because the chances are within a week the things that were safe will be dangerous and the things that were dangerous will be safe.

Athanasius
May 3rd 2009, 05:49 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if he was a CIA plant:hmm:

With that said, though, I enjoy digging through conspiracy theories. Don't believe them, mind you, however, I find them quite interesting. As for Alex Jones, eh, well he was likely to get a few things right and indeed, he has. He knows quite a lot about how to get a country to obey your every wish and command, so in regards to his knowledge of how things could be done by a government to control its populace... He's not very far off. As to if this is what is actually going on, that's another story...

moonglow
May 3rd 2009, 08:32 PM
tango I think a lot of writers focus on the aspects of things we might be afraid of, simply as a way of selling their articles. Let's face it, a newspaper with headlines of "don't worry, everything's going to be fine" is going to be accused of burying the truth or being a mouthpiece of the government (whichever government is in power at the time).

On the other hand, some outlets pump so much doom and gloom they soon get tuned out. Personally any time the government tells me I should be avoiding something I ignore them because the chances are within a week the things that were safe will be dangerous and the things that were dangerous will be safe.

I have to agree with you.



Wouldn't surprise me if he was a CIA plant:hmm:

With that said, though, I enjoy digging through conspiracy theories. Don't believe them, mind you, however, I find them quite interesting. As for Alex Jones, eh, well he was likely to get a few things right and indeed, he has. He knows quite a lot about how to get a country to obey your every wish and command, so in regards to his knowledge of how things could be done by a government to control its populace... He's not very far off. As to if this is what is actually going on, that's another story...

A CIA plant? for what purpose? to make everyone suspicious of everything? :rolleyes:


As to if this is what is actually going on, that's another story...

Ok now you made me curious...what is actually going on...:hmm:

Athanasius
May 3rd 2009, 08:36 PM
A CIA plant? for what purpose? to make everyone suspicious of everything? :rolleyes:

I don't know, it just happens to be another conspiracy theory that Alex Jones is actually a CIA agent bent on feeding the public enough information to give them an idea of what's going on but not enough to figure out exactly what.

Then when everything goes down they swoop in and pick up all the Alex Jones fans



Ok now you made me curious...what is actually going on...:hmm:

Well the Bilderberg Group is meeting with the Illuminati to form the NWO from the United Nations. All funded by the World Bank. Haha...

moonglow
May 3rd 2009, 09:09 PM
I don't know, it just happens to be another conspiracy theory that Alex Jones is actually a CIA agent bent on feeding the public enough information to give them an idea of what's going on but not enough to figure out exactly what.

Then when everything goes down they swoop in and pick up all the Alex Jones fans



Well the Bilderberg Group is meeting with the Illuminati to form the NWO from the United Nations. All funded by the World Bank. Haha...

dingy.....:rolleyes:

Prufrock
May 3rd 2009, 10:18 PM
Since you asked, I think Alex Jones is a professional sensationalist and rabble-rouser whose only goal in life is to con the suckers out of their time and money by spinning elaborate conspiracy theories about anything and everything. I put him in the same category as Art Bell, but Art Bell doesn't claim to believe everything that he reports: he just throws the "information" into the water like chum, trying to lure as many listeners/customers as he can for his radio program. The Christian Texe Marrs, who used to do a lot of useful work, has gone down the same road, although Marrs has added anti-Semitism to his repertoire.

If any of these people occasionally say something that turns out to be true, it's easily explained: even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, and their occasional reporting of something that's factually true gives credence to all their other nonsense. These conspiracy theorists, at worst, are like a subset of Gnostics, claiming to have a "hidden wisdom" that has escaped the rest of us; at best, they are like the Athenians, who spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing (Acts 17:21).

I have no respect for these people at all. They make Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore look like Plato and Aristotle.

tango
May 3rd 2009, 10:37 PM
I don't know, it just happens to be another conspiracy theory that Alex Jones is actually a CIA agent bent on feeding the public enough information to give them an idea of what's going on but not enough to figure out exactly what.

Then when everything goes down they swoop in and pick up all the Alex Jones fans



Well the Bilderberg Group is meeting with the Illuminati to form the NWO from the United Nations. All funded by the World Bank. Haha...

Man, I knew I should have tightened my tinfoil hat.

BrckBrln
May 4th 2009, 12:04 AM
Now I realize he isn't the only one that promotes fear...I think Fox news does a pretty good job on that too along with Glen Beck and some others.

:rolleyes: How does Fox and Beck promote fear? I've never understood this claim.

I've listened to Jones a few times but I'm not one to buy into the big conspiracy claims. However, I really enjoyed his recent movie on Obama.

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 12:10 AM
Since you asked, I think Alex Jones is a professional sensationalist and rabble-rouser whose only goal in life is to con the suckers out of their time and money by spinning elaborate conspiracy theories about anything and everything. I put him in the same category as Art Bell, but Art Bell doesn't claim to believe everything that he reports: he just throws the "information" into the water like chum, trying to lure as many listeners/customers as he can for his radio program. The Christian Texe Marrs, who used to do a lot of useful work, has gone down the same road, although Marrs has added anti-Semitism to his repertoire.

If any of these people occasionally say something that turns out to be true, it's easily explained: even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, and their occasional reporting of something that's factually true gives credence to all their other nonsense. These conspiracy theorists, at worst, are like a subset of Gnostics, claiming to have a "hidden wisdom" that has escaped the rest of us; at best, they are like the Athenians, who spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing (Acts 17:21).

I have no respect for these people at all. They make Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore look like Plato and Aristotle.

My concerns as I am seeing more and more of this type of thing being spread all over the net, alot by Christians, is comments like this on his video about swine flu:




We are on overload! There is NO question about the fact that the NWO is making their big move. I am requesting that all patriotic men & women stand ready to fight for our beloved Republic. Try to stay healthy . Do a supplies & weapons check. Lock & load.

We will continue to educate our fellow citizens & prepare to defend our lives & liberty. I am in NO way contented about where we find ourselves. The NWO is pushing for a fight & I’m mad as hell. I am ready to go “hot”.

Now I don't know if this person that posted that was joking or serious..

What are the intention behind getting people so riled up against not just our government, but the governments all over the world? To start a war against the governments or what? They tell us how the government or big brother are trying to condition us to peacefully accept their restrictions on us or whatever they think the government is trying to do..(yet the government is apparently not being sneaky enough about it since its all over the net and thus their mind control game is blown) so what is the point of telling us all this? In most situations when we are told such and such is happening their is always going to be a reaction...people want to do something about it. The calls to fight against it ..how? That is one of the things that concerns me most about this type of thing. It turns people against their government to do what exactly? Take up arms? what? Where does it all lead too?

Who exactly is really conditioning us to think a certain way? Seems like to me people like Alex Jones do an excellent job of conditioning people to think a certain way...while warning us the government is actually doing it to us. :hmm: He calls it mind control exercise. I can read posts, messages, comments by people on the net and know usually from their first post if they have his type of mind frame. Personally I do not think that is a good thing. Before long they are talking about a popular conspiracy theory and are so locked into this way of thinking that even when given the evidence its not true, they still won't believe it. Of course like what was pointed out, the conspiracy theorist get it right once in awhile, which I think in turns just feeds the fans of these thinking ok if one or two are right, maybe they are right about all these others too. And it just goes on and on and on.

God bless

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 12:28 AM
:rolleyes: How does Fox and Beck promote fear? I've never understood this claim.

I've listened to Jones a few times but I'm not one to buy into the big conspiracy claims. However, I really enjoyed his recent movie on Obama.

I am not sure who Jones is...sorry. I used to be a big fan of FOX news but I really think they have forgotten what fair and balanced means...especially the balanced part of it. The other day they were saying that the swine flu could cause the loss of some of our rights...like going to a movie...schools shutting down and so forth. They went on and on about it as if that was so terrible we couldn't go to a movie because the government would order the closing of any places where people gather in large numbers. There focus was totally about us 'losing our rights'...never mind that this might be a good thing.... If this was truly a killer plague with people dying in the streets like happened with the black plague, who in their right mind would want to go out, let alone go see a movie? Not gathering in large numbers would be a good idea if it was that contagious and that deadly. They bring up things to worry about that if you think it through...there is nothing at all to worry about. They make issues out of things that aren't even issues.

God bless

Vhayes
May 4th 2009, 04:02 AM
I had never heard of him before, so I decided to listen to the link that was posted. I listened to a grand total of 2 minutes. Anyone whose name is Prison Planet and be begins with "This is an emergency broadcast" has already turned on the neon signs for, "I'm not really a journalist, I just want you to tune in."

Why take an hour of an emergency broadcast to tell his faithful listeners there IS no emergency. Good golly, Miz Molly. Tin foil hattery at it's finest!
V

tx24
May 4th 2009, 04:12 AM
Well, being from the same city of ole Jonsey boy I can tell you we have our own little can of fruits. There's also Jeff Davis, but he's out of the game now from what I understand. My "theory" is this, no matter how crazy a theory is, there's always a grain of truth to it. Not that I care, because only One true being is in control. And like the good book says, I focus on things of above. But I got to admit, I do find some of what he says interesting, even if I don't agree with the guy. Kind of like watching a low budget B movie.

Athanasius
May 4th 2009, 04:18 AM
Might also want to check out Jeff Rense, another of the bigger names.

HisLeast
May 4th 2009, 05:12 AM
Well... I had another fireside beer chat with my landlord, who's exploring the whole conspiracy world. We had a long chat about the credibility of that reporting, when every letter of news is twisted to conform with the conspiracy. At the end he tells me its so attractive to him because he needs something to attribute his worry and fear too. I was so angry. He knows the world is a messed up place. He knows there's things greater than us at work. But because the truth is drowned out in the deafening roar of a billion "truth sellers", the only thing he has left that feels real is fear. If he could just figure out who he has to be afraid of, he can get through the day.

I'm pretty sure I had my "bold moment" right then. I told him he needs to ditch Alex Jones and start listening to Jesus, because His teachings are (1) true, (2) useful to everyone, (3) invincible. You could be living in the worst nightmares of The Alex Jones Conspiracy Crew's™, and Jesus would have the same (if not more) relevance. Alex Jones on the other hand wants you to do and feel one thing: FEAR.

So after we called it a night I gave him Simply Christian by NT Wright. I pray he flips through that book before googling Alex Jones.

diffangle
May 4th 2009, 02:06 PM
If people are fearful b/c they listen to Alex Jones then imo, that just tells me that they are the ones I spoke of in another thread that needs to get right with God. I have been involved in threads on this forum in the past where I had to urge someone to start reading the Scriptures more instead of listening to Alex b/c they were acting fearful.

I like to listen to him every once in a while b/c he's the only place where I get news that the mainstream isn't going to cover, for example, the pharma cartel gives alot of money to tv stations so naturally I didn't hear about the flu vaccines(that had the live avian flu in them) that Baxter sent to 18 countries from the Mainstream news... I heard that news from Alex. I like to know that stuff.

I believe Alex to be a news reporter. Does he make money? Yes, but so does Glenn Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc. Is it a sin to make a living covering the news? No. Has he ever covered a story that may have less than accurate news? Yes, but so has Glenn Beck, Rush, ORielly, Hannity, Dan Rather, etc. I especially loved it when Glenn Beck called me a terrorists(he said Ron Paul supporters were domestic terrorists):rolleyes:. Since they all are guilty of getting it wrong sometimes does that make them liars and discount all the info they get right? No. When one listens to Alex does that make you a "follower" of Alex(as if he was a idol/cult leader)? No, no more than listening to what Beck, Rush, ORielly, etc says and being considered one of their followers. Do I see the same disdain towards Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc that I see here for Alex? No. :confused

Vhayes
May 4th 2009, 02:12 PM
If people are fearful b/c they listen to Alex Jones then imo, that just tells me that they are the ones I spoke of in another thread that needs to get right with God. I have been involved in threads on this forum in the past where I had to urge someone to start reading the Scriptures more instead of listening to Alex b/c they were acting fearful.

I like to listen to him every once in a while b/c he's the only place where I get news that the mainstream isn't going to cover, for example, the pharma cartel gives alot of money to tv stations so naturally I didn't hear about the flu vaccines(that had the live avian flu in them) that Baxter sent to 18 countries from the Mainstream news... I heard that news from Alex. I like to know that stuff.

I believe Alex to be a news reporter. Does he make money? Yes, but so does Glenn Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc. Is it a sin to make a living covering the news? No. Has he ever covered a story that may have less than accurate news? Yes, but so has Glenn Beck, Rush, ORielly, Hannity, Dan Rather, etc. I especially loved it when Glenn Beck called me a terrorists(he said Ron Paul supporters were domestic terrorists):rolleyes:. Since they all are guilty of getting it wrong sometimes does that make them liars and discount all the info they get right? No. When one listens to Alex does that make you a "follower" of Alex(as if he was a idol/cult leader)? No, no more than listening to what Beck, Rush, ORielly, etc says and being considered one of their followers. Do I see the same disdain towards Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc that I see here for Alex? No. :confused
Then he is NOT a journalist - he expresses his opinion. In fairness, so do the others you mentioned which is why I listen to none of them. I don't want someone else forming my opinions for me.
V

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 02:17 PM
If people are fearful b/c they listen to Alex Jones then imo, that just tells me that they are the ones I spoke of in another thread that needs to get right with God. I have been involved in threads on this forum in the past where I had to urge someone to start reading the Scriptures more instead of listening to Alex b/c they were acting fearful.

I like to listen to him every once in a while b/c he's the only place where I get news that the mainstream isn't going to cover, for example, the pharma cartel gives alot of money to tv stations so naturally I didn't hear about the flu vaccines(that had the live avian flu in them) that Baxter sent to 18 countries from the Mainstream news... I heard that news from Alex. I like to know that stuff.

I believe Alex to be a news reporter. Does he make money? Yes, but so does Glenn Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc. Is it a sin to make a living covering the news? No. Has he ever covered a story that may have less than accurate news? Yes, but so has Glenn Beck, Rush, ORielly, Hannity, Dan Rather, etc. I especially loved it when Glenn Beck called me a terrorists(he said Ron Paul supporters were domestic terrorists):rolleyes:. Since they all are guilty of getting it wrong sometimes does that make them liars and discount all the info they get right? No. When one listens to Alex does that make you a "follower" of Alex(as if he was a idol/cult leader)? No, no more than listening to what Beck, Rush, ORielly, etc says and being considered one of their followers. Do I see the same disdain towards Beck, Rush, O Rielly, Hannity, etc that I see here for Alex? No. :confused

Actually I do have the same disdain for most of those you listed...though I can't say that on Hannity cause I don't listen to him at all so I have no idea what he talks about...:rolleyes:

My problem...which is probably not common...is when I hear twisted facts by anyone ..with my memory problems I cannot seperate them from the truth...so I get them all mixed up in my head and next thing I know I am repeating something said not remembering who or where I heard it from, but I think its the truth, when its not. I have embarrassed myself more then once by not double checking the facts first. So for me its better and safer I don't even hear half truths or twisted facts at all.

God bless

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 02:20 PM
Well... I had another fireside beer chat with my landlord, who's exploring the whole conspiracy world. We had a long chat about the credibility of that reporting, when every letter of news is twisted to conform with the conspiracy. At the end he tells me its so attractive to him because he needs something to attribute his worry and fear too. I was so angry. He knows the world is a messed up place. He knows there's things greater than us at work. But because the truth is drowned out in the deafening roar of a billion "truth sellers", the only thing he has left that feels real is fear. If he could just figure out who he has to be afraid of, he can get through the day.

I'm pretty sure I had my "bold moment" right then. I told him he needs to ditch Alex Jones and start listening to Jesus, because His teachings are (1) true, (2) useful to everyone, (3) invincible. You could be living in the worst nightmares of The Alex Jones Conspiracy Crew'sô, and Jesus would have the same (if not more) relevance. Alex Jones on the other hand wants you to do and feel one thing: FEAR.

So after we called it a night I gave him Simply Christian by NT Wright. I pray he flips through that book before googling Alex Jones.

How strange...I mean what all your landlord said.

Well you did what you could..you directed him towards the truth which is Jesus Christ, who tells us not to fear. Fear only paralyzes people and does nothing to help them improve their situation. Not too mention being anxious and fearful for a long period of time has been proven to affect people's health...:(

I will pray with you that he reads that book and it lead to Christ.

God bless

diffangle
May 4th 2009, 02:29 PM
Then he is NOT a journalist - he expresses his opinion. In fairness, so do the others you mentioned which is why I listen to none of them. I don't want someone else forming my opinions for me.
V
Where do you get your news from?

Vhayes
May 4th 2009, 02:37 PM
Where do you get your news from?
Google News usually. Then, if i find a story that interests me, I look at various outlets to see what they have to say. Some are far right, some are far left and some are as close to the middle as you can get these days. I'm more of a reader than a listener, if that makes any sense.
V

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 02:44 PM
Google News usually. Then, if i find a story that interests me, I look at various outlets to see what they have to say. Some are far right, some are far left and some are as close to the middle as you can get these days. I'm more of a reader than a listener, if that makes any sense.
V

I think we need more moderator news reporting. It seems like everything is to the extreme right now, one way or another and its frustrating because of the constant slant on things. Its hard to get the straight facts anymore. When I was in high school taking a class on journalism which was many, many years ago, we were only allowed to write up the facts...nothing more! No opinons offered. Anymore it seems the news is mostly made up of commentators...:( Everyone and his brother and cousins has an opinion on everything. I also listen to the Christian radio station and get alot of 'news' you don't hear on the mainstream news either. Even those reports can be slanted though I found out. Like for awhile they were saying having an abortion increases the woman's chance of breast cancer...this is not true though...which really made me very angry they would report false information like that. I think Christian reports, above all should be trusted to report the facts...it makes a poor witness when they aren't truthful I think...otherwise they are just lying as far as I am concerned and no Christian should be lying for any reason.

God bless

diffangle
May 4th 2009, 02:48 PM
Google News usually. Then, if i find a story that interests me, I look at various outlets to see what they have to say. Some are far right, some are far left and some are as close to the middle as you can get these days. I'm more of a reader than a listener, if that makes any sense.
V
I like to read also and check several sources when I hear something that interests me too but no matter how you slice it we have to get what we hear/read/see from someone. Someone has a part in forming our opinions whether we read their news or hear it... we still have to listen to and/or read someones writings to get the info that forms our opinions.

Vhayes
May 4th 2009, 02:52 PM
I like to read also and check several sources when I hear something that interests me too but no matter how you slice it we have to get what we hear/read/see from someone. Someone has a part in forming our opinions whether we read their news or hear it... we still have to listen to or read someones writings to get the info that forms our opinions.
True journalism is not opinions. It is fact based with no opinion. It's the Who, What, When, Where and Why. 30 years ago, what we read and see and listen to now would have been considered yellow journalism by most and would have been shunned and avoided like the plague.

Reuters in mostly fact based. The BBC is pretty good about only reporting facts. CNN used to be.

Does that help explain what I mean a bit?

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 03:09 PM
True journalism is not opinions. It is fact based with no opinion. It's the Who, What, When, Where and Why. 30 years ago, what we read and see and listen to now would have been considered yellow journalism by most and would have been shunned and avoided like the plague.

Reuters in mostly fact based. The BBC is pretty good about only reporting facts. CNN used to be.

Does that help explain what I mean a bit?

Exactly..that was all we were told to report in my high school class..the who, what, when, when and why...if we added anything to that our teacher was all over us...nothing else was acceptable. Now I see such bad reporting...they leave out information all the time, I see mis-spelled words (not that I am a great speller, but they should be), they use of certain descriptive words..just one word, slants the whole 'facts' of a story...like I just posted a couple of news articles where WHO says there are a LARGE number of people in Spain with the swine flu...40. Since when is 40 a large number? Then a sentence or two later it says, 'we know that is a small amount of people sick...' :confused Some of this is quoted, so you can't fault the reporter for WHO contradicting itself...:rolleyes: WHO was trying to justify raising the level of alert from a phrase five to a phrase six...'because it might get worse..' Even though the numbers of those getting sick in Mexico is dropping... Since when it is ok to raise an alert level over a 'might'..what might happen? :hmm:

Anyway I just got off topic..sorry! I am frustrated with yes, the bad reporting and people in general controlling this situation. In this case its difficult to decide what is bad reporting and what is being reported is just bad and making little sense...:B right now I think WHO and the CDC are making little sense...then you add bad reporting on top of it and its no wonder so many are in a panic over this flu...:cool:

diffangle
May 4th 2009, 03:18 PM
True journalism is not opinions. It is fact based with no opinion. It's the Who, What, When, Where and Why. 30 years ago, what we read and see and listen to now would have been considered yellow journalism by most and would have been shunned and avoided like the plague.

Reuters in mostly fact based. The BBC is pretty good about only reporting facts. CNN used to be.

Does that help explain what I mean a bit?
I understand what you're saying, that's why i like to just listen to the actual news portion of what someone is reporting on and then go search for other sources on that topic. But again, Rueters and BBC are not infallible. For example, remember when Rueters was caught posting false pictures about the Israel-Lebanon war? And that was intentional instead of a honest misunderstanding.

Vhayes
May 4th 2009, 03:22 PM
Which is why I said Reuters is MOSTLY fact based. They get it right a whole lot more often not.

Dani H
May 4th 2009, 03:24 PM
I think that any teacher/preacher who gets people's eyes off Jesus and onto the world and the devil, needs their head examined and their hearts adjusted.

I understand about sober and vigilant. But I don't understand about paranoia and sensationalism, as if the earth and its fullness somehow stopped being the Lord's and as if He stepped off His throne and is nursing a flu somewhere and can no longer firmly handle things like He used to.

People like that are looking at a very big devil and a very small Jesus, if you ask me, and their unbelief unfortunately gets into other people's hearts and then they wonder why they can't have faith in God like they used to.

But hey, it sells books and makes for a nice 5 minutes of fame, because Americans love to overreact towards every little thing and stick their heads in the sand over things that actually matter. People like that have a platform because their listeners enjoy hyping themselves up over things that do not profit (because hey, for drama value that's better than any Hollywood movie, don't you think?).

So what you've gotta ask yourself is this: Is this person really concerned with my well-being or is he just trying to sell a book and keep his radio existence going? People who "expose" these types of "government manipulations", are usually doing their own manipulating, and so I see no difference betweeen the two, honestly. But that's just me.

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 03:56 PM
I think that any teacher/preacher who gets people's eyes off Jesus and onto the world and the devil, needs their head examined and their hearts adjusted.

I understand about sober and vigilant. But I don't understand about paranoia and sensationalism, as if the earth and its fullness somehow stopped being the Lord's and as if He stepped off His throne and is nursing a flu somewhere and can no longer firmly handle things like He used to.

People like that are looking at a very big devil and a very small Jesus, if you ask me, and their unbelief unfortunately gets into other people's hearts and then they wonder why they can't have faith in God like they used to.

But hey, it sells books and makes for a nice 5 minutes of fame, because Americans love to overreact towards every little thing and stick their heads in the sand over things that actually matter. People like that have a platform because their listeners enjoy hyping themselves up over things that do not profit (because hey, for drama value that's better than any Hollywood movie, don't you think?).

So what you've gotta ask yourself is this: Is this person really concerned with my well-being or is he just trying to sell a book and keep his radio existence going? People who "expose" these types of "government manipulations", are usually doing their own manipulating, and so I see no difference betweeen the two, honestly. But that's just me.

That is the word I have been looking for! Sensationalism That is it in a nutshell and why I don't care for Alex Jones, Glenn Beck and many others.

Ok this is what really, really got me yesterday with Alex Jones on that link I provided. He says FOX news, CNN and others are all saying martial law is coming and going on and on about it and telling us its a good thing to keep everyone safe. He says this is to 'condition us' to accept it when it happens. And he has the video clip of FOX news talking about us possibly losing some of our rights if this swine flu gets really bad, like not going to the movies, etc, which I already talked about. Its only at the very end martial law is mentioned and the guy they were talking too didn't want to get into a discussion about it. While Alex Jones is saying all the news groups are 'conditioning us' to accept this...he has his own martial law is coming video done back in January. Martial Law Imminent USA 2009 WS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZH-e5ZVy4g&feature=PlayList&p=727980B2A1CDBF7C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6) :eek:

So why go and get after the media (which is NOT telling everyone martial law is coming) when he is doing it himself? :confused

While I had cut way, way back on my listening to the news and even reading news stories for a while now, I have been paying closer attention since this whole swine flu outbreak and I haven't seen any of these news stations saying martial law is coming...so I don't know where he is getting this.

Dani H
May 4th 2009, 04:12 PM
..so I don't know where he is getting this.

Perhaps from the voices in his own head? :rolleyes:

Seriously, I've heard versions of "martial law is coming!" for a long time now. The latest and greatest was supposedly due to George Bush remaining in power indefinitely and instituting martial law to remain in control.

And we all saw how that turned out. Not.

There have been people crying "martial law is coming" for decades.

As soon as world leaders try and communicate it's not because God may perhaps be involved to help bring about peace, oh no, of course it's all New World Order as if God abdicated His throne and can't possibly desire, and actively be involved in, people working together and spare lives that He created.

I honestly think that sin is already rampant enough to point people to hope in Christ. We don't have to artificially add to it and hype things up beyond the facts. :)

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 05:58 PM
Perhaps from the voices in his own head? :rolleyes:

Seriously, I've heard versions of "martial law is coming!" for a long time now. The latest and greatest was supposedly due to George Bush remaining in power indefinitely and instituting martial law to remain in control.

And we all saw how that turned out. Not.

There have been people crying "martial law is coming" for decades.

As soon as world leaders try and communicate it's not because God may perhaps be involved to help bring about peace, oh no, of course it's all New World Order as if God abdicated His throne and can't possibly desire, and actively be involved in, people working together and spare lives that He created.

I honestly think that sin is already rampant enough to point people to hope in Christ. We don't have to artificially add to it and hype things up beyond the facts. :)

I agree with everything you said. I think people listening to him forget God Himself put our leaders in office.

Romans 13
Respect for Authority
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are Godís servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are Godís servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

Alex Jones seems to be giving the message we need to not only not trust our government but to rebel against them....because they are out to get us...

And this goes directly against scripture.

diffangle
May 4th 2009, 06:07 PM
I agree with everything you said. I think people listening to him forget God Himself put our leaders in office.



So Hitler, Stalin, Mao were good? It was bad that Germans disobeyed their government by hiding Jews instead of turning them over like they were told to do?

moonglow
May 4th 2009, 06:47 PM
So Hitler, Stalin, Mao were good? It was bad that Germans disobeyed their government by hiding Jews instead of turning them over like they were told to do?

I believe that God puts even dictators in authority yes. Just read through the OT. How many times did God turn over the disobeying Jews to be ruled over and enslaved by a pagan nation as a form of punishment?

There are exception also we see in the bible of not following those in authority if they go against the teachings of God ..killing is breaking the Ten Commandments so I don't think it would be considered rebelling against God by following Him first when those in authority aren't and hiding those in danger. We see even Joseph and Mary being warned by an angel to flee to Egypt with baby Jesus because an order had been given to the guards to kill all the baby boys.

We have to remember when Paul wrote this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Rome ruled over most of the countries in a very ruthless manner. Here Paul is telling the believers to do what those in authority say...the same ones that nailed our Savior to the cross! And he was very serious about this. There was to be no rebellion against them in spite of their very cold and uncaring way of dealing with those they ruled over. A good commentary on this that explains it in depth can be found here: http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013

If we have bad leadership, we need to be asking ourselves why...

God bless

Prufrock
May 4th 2009, 07:19 PM
I believe that God puts even dictators in authority yes. Just read through the OT. How many times did God turn over the disobeying Jews to be ruled over and enslaved by a pagan nation as a form of punishment?

There are exception also we see in the bible of not following those in authority if they go against the teachings of God ..killing is breaking the Ten Commandments so I don't think it would be considered rebelling against God by following Him first when those in authority aren't and hiding those in danger. We see even Joseph and Mary being warned by an angel to flee to Egypt with baby Jesus because an order had been given to the guards to kill all the baby boys.

We have to remember when Paul wrote this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Rome ruled over most of the countries in a very ruthless manner. Here Paul is telling the believers to do what those in authority say...the same ones that nailed our Savior to the cross! And he was very serious about this. There was to be no rebellion against them in spite of their very cold and uncaring way of dealing with those they ruled over.
If we have bad leadership, we need to be asking ourselves why...

This is one of the best posts I've read in this forum, and it's a pleasure to quote it in full. I would have greenie'd it, but I already greenie'd the author for an earlier post!

Clavicula_Nox
May 4th 2009, 07:34 PM
I believe that God puts even dictators in authority yes. Just read through the OT. How many times did God turn over the disobeying Jews to be ruled over and enslaved by a pagan nation as a form of punishment?

There are exception also we see in the bible of not following those in authority if they go against the teachings of God ..killing is breaking the Ten Commandments so I don't think it would be considered rebelling against God by following Him first when those in authority aren't and hiding those in danger. We see even Joseph and Mary being warned by an angel to flee to Egypt with baby Jesus because an order had been given to the guards to kill all the baby boys.

We have to remember when Paul wrote this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Rome ruled over most of the countries in a very ruthless manner. Here Paul is telling the believers to do what those in authority say...the same ones that nailed our Savior to the cross! And he was very serious about this. There was to be no rebellion against them in spite of their very cold and uncaring way of dealing with those they ruled over. A good commentary on this that explains it in depth can be found here: http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013

If we have bad leadership, we need to be asking ourselves why...

God bless

Great post. I think we are very quick to forget that, especially in our system, our leaders are a kind of extreme representation of our national community as a whole. We are wholly responsible for them being there, and in many respects, we are responsible for what they are able to get away with.

Again, great post.

Izdaari
May 4th 2009, 08:20 PM
What do I think of Alex Jones? Well, to be honest I don't think of him. I'd never ever even heard of him until this thread.

And now that I have, I gather he's a commentator who's into conspiracy theories. I don't know how much I'd believe him, but I might find him entertaining. I enjoy a good conspiracy theory... but I've rarely found any of them to be true.

TrophyofGrace
May 4th 2009, 09:31 PM
What do I think of Alex Jones? Well, to be honest I don't think of him. I'd never ever even heard of him until this thread.

And now that I have, I gather he's a commentator who's into conspiracy theories. I don't know how much I'd believe him, but I might find him entertaining. I enjoy a good conspiracy theory... but I've rarely found any of them to be true.


:rofl: I'm with you, Izdaari! To me, Alex Jones is a kid I went to grade school with!!

I guess I should go back and read the whole thread....

diffangle
May 5th 2009, 01:49 PM
I believe that God puts even dictators in authority yes. Just read through the OT. How many times did God turn over the disobeying Jews to be ruled over and enslaved by a pagan nation as a form of punishment?

But you go on to justify that there are times to disobey a government...


There are exception also we see in the bible of not following those in authority if they go against the teachings of God ..killing is breaking the Ten Commandments so I don't think it would be considered rebelling against God by following Him first when those in authority aren't and hiding those in danger. We see even Joseph and Mary being warned by an angel to flee to Egypt with baby Jesus because an order had been given to the guards to kill all the baby boys.
So Romans 13 isn't as cut and dry as it seems?



We have to remember when Paul wrote this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Rome ruled over most of the countries in a very ruthless manner. Here Paul is telling the believers to do what those in authority say...the same ones that nailed our Savior to the cross! And he was very serious about this. There was to be no rebellion against them in spite of their very cold and uncaring way of dealing with those they ruled over. A good commentary on this that explains it in depth can be found here: http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013

Yet the disciples continued to preach the Gospel even when their authorities told them not to.



If we have bad leadership, we need to be asking ourselves why...

God bless

There is a question as to who our "leadership" is, some believe our U.S. Constitution to be what we are lead by and that the governemnt is suppossed to be for the people.

Izdaari
May 5th 2009, 01:55 PM
There is a question as to who our "leadership" is, some believe our U.S. Constitution to be what we are lead by and that the governemnt is suppossed to be for the people.I hold to that myself. You might say I'm something of a constitutional fundamentalist.

diffangle
May 5th 2009, 02:12 PM
I hold to that myself. You might say I'm something of a constitutional fundamentalist.
Too bad it's becoming a thing of the past. :(

moonglow
May 5th 2009, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by moonglow
I believe that God puts even dictators in authority yes. Just read through the OT. How many times did God turn over the disobeying Jews to be ruled over and enslaved by a pagan nation as a form of punishment?

diffangle: But you go on to justify that there are times to disobey a government...


moonglow:
There are exception also we see in the bible of not following those in authority if they go against the teachings of God ..killing is breaking the Ten Commandments so I don't think it would be considered rebelling against God by following Him first when those in authority aren't and hiding those in danger. We see even Joseph and Mary being warned by an angel to flee to Egypt with baby Jesus because an order had been given to the guards to kill all the baby boys.

diffangle:So Romans 13 isn't as cut and dry as it seems?


moonglow:
We have to remember when Paul wrote this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Rome ruled over most of the countries in a very ruthless manner. Here Paul is telling the believers to do what those in authority say...the same ones that nailed our Savior to the cross! And he was very serious about this. There was to be no rebellion against them in spite of their very cold and uncaring way of dealing with those they ruled over. A good commentary on this that explains it in depth can be found here: http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/vi...ro&chapter=013


diffangleYet the disciples continued to preach the Gospel even when their authorities told them not to.


moonglow:
If we have bad leadership, we need to be asking ourselves why...

God bless

There is a question as to who our "leadership" is, some believe our U.S. Constitution to be what we are lead by and that the governemnt is suppossed to be for the people.

I think I was pretty clear...I am just telling you what the bible says. If the government goes against God, then God overrules the government. The disciples were instructed to preach the gospel..the ones that told them not too were the Jewish leaders. I don't know if they would be considered a government or not...especially since they were actually being over ruled by Rome. But the bible explains itself. Nothing trumps the will of God...otherwise we are to obey the government. If I am still not clear enough for you, then I would just say do a study on Roman's 13.

God bless

diffangle
May 5th 2009, 02:49 PM
I think I was pretty clear...I am just telling you what the bible says. If the government goes against God, then God overrules the government. The disciples were instructed to preach the gospel..the ones that told them not too were the Jewish leaders. I don't know if they would be considered a government or not...especially since they were actually being over ruled by Rome. But the bible explains itself. Nothing trumps the will of God...otherwise we are to obey the government. If I am still not clear enough for you, then I would just say do a study on Roman's 13.

God bless
Romans 13 uses the word "authority", I believe Yahushua considered the Jewish leaders to be a authority...

http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifMat 23:2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=23&v=2&t=KJV#comm/2)Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifMat 23:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=23&v=2&t=KJV#comm/3)All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

So from what you've said above, we've established that Romans 13 isn't as cut and dry as it seems. People like to quote that passage to people who believe it's okay to question and hold their governments responsible for their actions but they always wait to add the "there are exceptions" explanation until they're questioned about evil governments.;)

moonglow
May 5th 2009, 03:06 PM
Romans 13 uses the word "authority", I believe Yahushua considered the Jewish leaders to be a authority...

http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifMat 23:2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=23&v=2&t=KJV#comm/2)Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/gifs/copyChkboxOff.gifMat 23:3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=23&v=2&t=KJV#comm/3)All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

So from what you've said above, we've established that Romans 13 isn't as cut and dry as it seems. People like to quote that passage to people who believe it's okay to question and hold their governments responsible for their actions but they always wait to add the "there are exceptions" explanation until they're questioned about evil governments.;)

Err...no I answered you about evil governments when you asked about Hitler and others and I explained that the OT shows how God sometimes puts a bad leader in to punish the people as He did with the Jews in the OT time and time again. So what am I not being clear about?

I never said to use Romans 13 to hold the government responsible for its actions...:confused

Why do you think the disciples didn't listen to the Jewish leaders on preaching the gospel? the bible explains itself very clearly...its not about 'us' trying to find expections..this is what God's Word says...if He wants to make exceptions, He can. He and His laws always come first. The bible is very clear on that and I don't understand why you don't understand that.

Maybe this other bible commentary will help explain it better then I am:

David Guzik's Commentaries (http://www.studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013)
2. (3-4) The job of government: to punish and deter evildoers.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

a. Do what is good, and you will have praise: Paul's idea is that Christians should be the best citizens of all. Even though they are loyal to God before they are loyal to the state Christians are good citizens because they are honest, give no trouble to the state, pay their taxes, and - most importantly - pray for the state and the rulers.

b. He is God's minister: Paul describes government officials as God's minister. They have a ministry in the plan and administration of God, just as much as church leaders do.

i. If the state's rulers are God's minister (servant), they should remember that they are only servants, and not gods themselves.

3. (5-7) The Christian's responsibility towards government.

Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

a. Therefore you must be subject: We must be subject to government; not only because we fear punishment, but because we know it is right before God to do so.

i. For conscience sake: Christian obedience to the state is never blind - it obeys with the eyes of conscience wide open.

b. You also pay taxes . . . Render therefore to all their due: We are also to pay the taxes due from us, because there is a sense in which we support God's work when we do so.

i. By implication, Romans 13:6 also says that the taxes collected are to be used by government to get the job done of restraining evil and keeping an orderly society - not to enrich the government officials themselves.

c. Taxes . . . customs . . . fear . . . honor: We are to give to the state the money, honor, and proper reverence which are due to the state, all the while reserving our right to give to God that which is due to God alone. (Matthew 22:21)

d. In light of this, is rebellion against government ever justified? If a citizen has a choice between two governments, it is right to choose and to promote the one that is most legitimate in God's eyes - the one which will best fulfill God's purpose for governments.

i. As well, in a democracy, we must understand that there is a sense in which we are the government, and should not hesitate to help "govern" our democracy through our participation in the democratic process.
***************************
Adam Clark bible commentary (http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013)
But it has been asked: If the ruler be an immoral or profligate man, does he not prove himself thereby to be unworthy of his high office, and should he not be deposed? I answer, No: if he rule according to the constitution, nothing can justify rebellion against his authority. He may be irregular in his own private life; he may be an immoral man, and disgrace himself by an improper conduct: but if he rule according to the law; if he make no attempt to change the constitution, nor break the compact between him and the people; there is, therefore, no legal ground of opposition to his civil authority, and every act against him is not only rebellion in the worst sense of the word, but is unlawful and absolutely sinful.

Nothing can justify the opposition of the subjects to the ruler but overt attempts on his part to change the constitution, or to rule contrary to law. When the ruler acts thus he dissolves the compact between him and his people; his authority is no longer binding, because illegal; and it is illegal because he is acting contrary to the laws of that constitution, according to which, on being raised to the supreme power, he promised to govern. This conduct justifies opposition to his government; but I contend that no personal misconduct in the ruler, no immorality in his own life, while he governs according to law, can justify either rebellion against him or contempt of his authority. For his political conduct he is accountable to his people; for his moral conduct he is accountable to God, his conscience, and the ministers of religion.

A king may be a good moral man, and yet a weak, and indeed a bad and dangerous prince. He may be a bad man, and stained with vice in his private life, and yet be a good prince. SAUL was a good moral man, but a bad prince, because he endeavoured to act contrary to the Israelitish constitution: he changed some essential parts of that constitution, as I have elsewhere shown; (See Clarke on Acts 13:22.;) he was therefore lawfully deposed. James the Second was a good moral man, as far as I can learn, but he was a bad and dangerous prince; he endeavoured to alter, and essentially change the British constitution, both in Church and state, therefore he was lawfully deposed.

It would be easy, in running over the list of our own kings, to point out several who were deservedly reputed good kings, who in their private life were very immoral. Bad as they might be in private life, the constitution was in their hands ever considered a sacred deposit, and they faithfully preserved it, and transmitted it unimpaired to their successors; and took care while they held the reins of government to have it impartially and effectually administered.
**************************
God bless

Vhayes
May 5th 2009, 03:07 PM
So from what you've said above, we've established that Romans 13 isn't as cut and dry as it seems. People like to quote that passage to people who believe it's okay to question and hold their governments responsible for their actions but they always wait to add the "there are exceptions" explanation until they're questioned about evil governments.;)
I don't think anyone says we should not question what our government leaders are doing - it's the taking it to next level and instilling fear and dissent for no real reason that causes the problem in most people's minds. In large part, the shock jocks aren't praying for those in authority, they aren't even questioning them, they are just saying the ones in authority are wrong.

And there ARE exceptions to following those in charge. If their leadership is forcing people to go against what they know is God's will for their lives, then they must always follow God first. That isn't a cop out, it's scriptural.

Your Advert here


Hosted by Webnet77