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herald
May 6th 2009, 01:38 PM
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you..." Ezek 36:26,27.

Jesus answered and said unto him, (Nicodemus) Verily, verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:3-7.

Religion will not give you eternal life...You must have His Spirit within you to enter into the kingdom of God.

First, take Jesus as your Saviour from sin, and then invite His Spirit to live within you, and you will have eternal life - because He is eternal life.

Sojourner
May 6th 2009, 01:49 PM
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you..." Ezek 36:26,27.

Jesus answered and said unto him, (Nicodemus) Verily, verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:3-7.

Religion will not give you eternal life...You must have His Spirit within you to enter into the kingdom of God.

First, take Jesus as your Saviour from sin, and then invite His Spirit to live within you, and you will have eternal life - because He is eternal life.Good post! But the thing is, no one can just "take Jesus", it is not a choice or an option for us to make, Jesus has to choose us and give us faith to believe, not our faith it is a gift; we can't say, I think that I will except Jesus today - it is by election.

I didn't mean to stand on your coat tail. :)

herald
May 6th 2009, 02:38 PM
I know several that believe in predestination, but they have lives full of sin.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that SAITH, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not HIs commandments is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in him: But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected." 1 John 2:3-5.

When Moses struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter "The Promised Land," because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

Disobedience = Unbelief
Obedience = Faith

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."
"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"Even so, faith if it hath not works is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father (Ga 3:7,29) JUSTIFIED BY WORKS when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (In response to the command of God)

SEEST THOU HOW FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham BELIEVED GOD (faith & works) and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God...For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." James 2.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus said, "He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth Me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

"And thisis love that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used interchangeably with, "law," "commandments," "judgments," "precepts," "statutes," "testimonies."

HIS WORD IS HIS LAW.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions ("Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4)...To such as keep His Covenant and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Psa 103.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

Covenants have conditions.

If you have true faith, you will obey the Word of God.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

karenoka27
May 6th 2009, 02:41 PM
Romans 10:13-"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

Romans 10:9-"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

herald
May 6th 2009, 02:44 PM
But if you obey the Word of God, it will give evidence to your faith.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."
"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

There is no true faith without obedience to the Word of God.

karenoka27
May 6th 2009, 02:46 PM
But if you obey the Word of God, it will give evidence to your faith.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."
"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

There is no true faith without obedience to the Word of God.
I agree with you,but who is the Judge? Too many Christians today seem to claim to be. The Bible clearly says to work out your own salvation. If each of us are doing that, then we know if we are saved. We are not saved by works but we do works because we are saved. Those works do not determine our salvation and certainly don't give any of us the right to decide who is and who isn't saved.

theBelovedDisciple
May 6th 2009, 03:03 PM
there are many




who say 'yes' to God....



yet,...... they don't do His will...

karenoka27
May 6th 2009, 03:11 PM
there are many




who say 'yes' to God....



yet,...... they don't do His will...

And you know this because?....my point is this verse:

John 10:27-28-"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

If you saw me in a mall and my kids were there somewhere...you would not be able to point them out to me. I know who my kids are,you don't.
We cannot be the judge of who and who isn't saved. If we are concerned about the salvation of a person,then we need to quietly take it to the Lord,who does know if He knows them or not.
I don't see any gifts listed in the Bible as fruit pickers who decide who is and who isn't saved.

Philippians 2:12-"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

herald
May 6th 2009, 04:28 PM
Paul wrote, "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas (Peter); and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor 1:12,13.

The Lord calls the Catholic/Protestant religious system, "The Mother of harlots." Rev 17. She has traded much of the Word of God for her traditions.

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES.

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (lawlessness) Rev 18:4,5.

Jesus said, "My sheep hear My Voice, and I KNOW THEM, and they follow Me." John 10:27. How do we follow Him, by studying and obeying the Word of God.

"I am crucified with Christ..." Ga 2:20.

"What shall we say then? Shall WE CONTINUE IN SIN that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

The Apostle Paul wrote, "For as many as have sinned in the law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Rom 2:12,13.

The Apostle John wrote, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that He was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, and in Him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in Him (walks in His Spirit) sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, NEITHER KNOWN HIM (Matt 7:21-23).

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the Devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose was the Son of God manifested, that He might destroy the works of the Devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the Devil;whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." 1 John 3.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him, the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak." John 12:48-50.

When we stand before God, we will give an account for how we lived...whether we obeyed His Word, or not.

Jesus said, THINK NOT THAT I COME TO SEND PEACE ON EARTH: I CAME NOT TO SEND PEACE, BUT A SWORD. Matt 10:32.

"For the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Heb 4:12.

Many of the prophets, Jesus, His disciples and many Christians have been martyred for speaking the Truth...God's Word.

We are in a spiritual battle with the powers of darkness...this is no picnic.

When I stand before Him, I want to hear Him say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

theBelovedDisciple
May 6th 2009, 04:48 PM
And you know this because?....my point is this verse:

John 10:27-28-"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

If you saw me in a mall and my kids were there somewhere...you would not be able to point them out to me. I know who my kids are,you don't.
We cannot be the judge of who and who isn't saved. If we are concerned about the salvation of a person,then we need to quietly take it to the Lord,who does know if He knows them or not.
I don't see any gifts listed in the Bible as fruit pickers who decide who is and who isn't saved.

Philippians 2:12-"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."



Whoooaaaaaa...... Nellie.............. Did I say you werent saved? My post meant nothing to be-little you or have you 'doubt' your saved.. no I don't know you personally.. nor your kids... MY POST WAS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU... I was stating something that is True and evident... very evident.....

all you have to do is quietly watch and observe. and LISTEN.....

Jesus even said it.....

In the End many will argue with Him and claim they did all these marvellous things in His name... but He did not 'know' them.....

there have been many in the past and there are many today.. that say

'yes' to God...

they go thru all the motions.... walking and talking ...looking like the real thing... yet they 'never' Knew Him.... and they 'never did His Will'

Jesus told His Disciples back then and He admonishes His Children today... that Ye shall 'know' them by their Fruit.....

My first post was NOT directed at you.. personally...

karenoka27
May 6th 2009, 05:20 PM
Whoooaaaaaa...... Nellie.............. Did I say you werent saved? My post meant nothing to be-little you or have you 'doubt' your saved.. no I don't know you personally.. nor your kids... MY POST WAS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU... I was stating something that is True and evident... very evident.....

all you have to do is quietly watch and observe. and LISTEN.....

Jesus even said it.....

In the End many will argue with Him and claim they did all these marvellous things in His name... but He did not 'know' them.....

there have been many in the past and there are many today.. that say

'yes' to God...

they go thru all the motions.... walking and talking ...looking like the real thing... yet they 'never' Knew Him.... and they 'never did His Will'

Jesus told His Disciples back then and He admonishes His Children today... that Ye shall 'know' them by their Fruit.....

My first post was NOT directed at you.. personally...

:lol:my apologizies...I did not think in any way you were referring to me. I was merely using my kids as an illustration.

Ok, I agree to a certain extent. Here is a real life example. I have been a busy Christian for 25 years. This past year,my life has been very quiet at home. The Lord is working on me in my marriage. I had a friend call and say she questions the salvation of those who are not out there serving. yikes! She called them either unsaved or lazy.
Now,she can't see me on my knees. She can't see that the Lord may have pulled me out for a time to get things right at home. How can she or anyone else judge whether or not I am saved just because they don't see my works?

I'm sorry if you thought I thought you were attacking me...I did not feel that way at all.:hug:

theBelovedDisciple
May 6th 2009, 05:50 PM
No problems and no hard feelings.....

Its God who will Judge the heart.. and He Knows the Heart...

Salvation is not based on 'works'... and your friend should not be judging you on how much you do or how much you can do for the Kingdom... I used to sit under all that teaching before.. I sat and lived under condemnation.. because I wasn't doing 'enough' for the Kingdom... He set me free from that and commanded me to Come out from under that.. and 'learn' of Me.. for my yoke is EASY and burden is light.. and you will have 'rest' unto your soul....

Its not what you can do.. its what He's already done for you..by stretching out His Arms on the Bloody Tree... even if you were the only person on this Earth.. He still would of did what He did.. because of His Love and Desire for His Children to be saved... and when you begin to tell people that.. then those who are 'working' for their salvation.. usually get offended and defensive... and accusatory and judgemental....

He will work thru you and in you.. to do His Good Pleasure.. and if its staying at Home raising your kids.. or what He has called you to do at Home.. then you 'know' your in His Will.. if He has other plans.. He will reveal this to you.. not thru condemnation and guilt.. but in Freedom and in Truth.. and He will Reveal it to u by His Spirit...

take for example.. a person who is Truly Born Again from Above.. and he/she is paralyzed.. not being able to walk again.. or even really lift a finger... How does God view that person? He looks on the heart...and if that person even though paralyzed.. is still trusting and believing in God.. as his/her Salvation.... without being able to lift a finger.... God sees the heart and 'knows' that person is His... but then you may have those who judge in the 'flesh'.. and those who preach a 'works' doctrine.. or lay huge enormous amounts of condemnation on people for 'not doing ' enough... for the Kingdom..with some probably even judging that person... and saying God has abandoned him/her.. or if he/she was a real Christian.. then God would not let happen... or some would even say.. it was his/her sin that got them in that predicament... etc etc....

The 'fruit' of the Spirit is what one should be looking for.. what does Paul describe as the 'fruit' of the Spirit... thats what were to look for.. not 'works'....

I know some people who do good works.. but they are 'backstabbers', 'bitter', unhappy, decietful, etc.... are these the Fruits that should be manifested? thats where you look to...

joy, peace, happiness,contentment.... loving your neighbor as yourself, Loving God with all your heart mind and spirit... etc... are these being manifested...

and those who are Truly Born Again from Above by the Will and Foreknowledge of God.. thru the Work of the Holy Ghost...

will 'produce' these fruits


Ye must be born again... I agree.. and this done From Above... not the will of men in religion or any other device they may use... but from Above...

herald
May 6th 2009, 06:05 PM
When Moses struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. The children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, and they were not able to enter "The Promised Land," because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

Disobedience = Unbelief
Obedience = Faith

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."
"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8

We express our faith by being obedient to the Word of God. There is no true faith without obedience.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

The Parson
May 6th 2009, 08:00 PM
Good post! But the thing is, no one can just "take Jesus", it is not a choice or an option for us to make, Jesus has to choose us and give us faith to believe, not our faith it is a gift; we can't say, I think that I will except Jesus today - it is by election.

I didn't mean to stand on your coat tail. :)Lets hold off on the subject of election for the time being.

Sojourner
May 6th 2009, 08:10 PM
Lets hold off on the subject of election for the time being.Granted, I think that I over-corrected to get back on the highway. Not sure what I believe.

herald
May 6th 2009, 08:14 PM
I think, that, there is something to election...but, the Scripture,also teaches "Whosoever will..."

Jesus said, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen." Mt 20:16.

Jesus said, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen..."John 13:18.

Jesus said, "I AM the door of the sheep." John 10:7.

But, the evidence of faith, is a life lived in obedience to the Word of God

When we get to heaven, I think, that, we will understand it all...at least, I hope so.:pray:

The Parson
May 6th 2009, 08:15 PM
It happens in our life as Christians sometimes. We want absolutes and the more opinions that are voiced the cloudier the issues get. Know what I mean?

herald
May 6th 2009, 08:16 PM
When we get to heaven, I don't, really, think, that we will care at all.:pp

Sojourner
May 6th 2009, 08:20 PM
It happens in our life as Christians sometimes. We want absolutes and the more opinions that are voiced the cloudier the issues get. Know what I mean?Thanks, Officer.

The Parson
May 6th 2009, 08:21 PM
When we get to heaven, I don't, really, think, that we will care at all.:ppI don't believe we will but in the here and now, certain issues have to be wrestled with for our own peace of mind. But if this finite mind wrestles with too many issues at once there can be a short circuit.

Take the rebirth for instance. Unless it is examined with a spiritual mind we can have the same sort of short circuit Nicodemus had, He was equating natural with spiritual and clouded the entire point the Lord was trying to make with him.

The Parson
May 6th 2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks, Officer.Your servant Neighbor...

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