THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE

"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37. If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory." See 1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 1:25-28; Philippians 1:2728; Ephesians 4:7.

http://www.mauricejohnsonarchives.com/TheMost.htm

Tomlane

I never thought of it that way before, but it sure is interesting. I'm not sure if it would end sectarianism, but I do believe it would allow for more unity.

I never thought of it that way before, but it sure is interesting. I'm not sure if it would end sectarianism, but I do believe it would allow for more unity.

You are correct it would only increase unity among believers who desire to walk just in God's word. Realistically, as long as people come up with different doctrines from carnality of one form or another we will also have a divided body that fellowships with the unsaved.

Naturally the Holy Spirit only has one message for all believers that is why we are told in Ephs. 4:5 we only have one faith and not the faith of our choice.

So you are correct Apothanein Kerdos, an interesting thought, but one that is necessary I believe that we have to have in our hearts to grow spiritually.

Tomlane

THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE


"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37. If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory." See 1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 1:25-28; Philippians 1:2728; Ephesians 4:7.

http://www.mauricejohnsonarchives.com/TheMost.htm

Tomlane

You are such a Blessing!:saint: :amen: and :amen:!!!

"Proving" is only half the battle. The other half is that the listeners must be humble enough to accept teaching and / or correction. Since the second requirement is even rarer than the first, my hopes are pretty slim on the matter of Christian unity.

"Proving" is only half the battle. The other half is that the listeners must be humble enough to accept teaching and / or correction. Since the second requirement is even rarer than the first, my hopes are pretty slim on the matter of Christian unity.

pretty much sums up my thoughts as well!

all the best...

Only one thing I can add though is that not all people mature at the same rate as others. There are "many things" to prove and the Lord teaches us all where we are and most are in the various stages of their Christian walk. I've been seeing and learning for over 35 yrs and I'm still alearning and proving.

Why was Pentecostalism singled out?

Does "prove all things" means like prove in a court of law, such as prove innocence or guilt, or to have "evidence of", or prove right or wrong. :confused :hmm:
Example, Before you publicly hold to a particular doctrine and talk to other about it you should be able to prove it. It that the right way to take it?

THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE



"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37. If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory." See 1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 1:25-28; Philippians 1:2728; Ephesians 4:7.

http://www.mauricejohnsonarchives.com/TheMost.htm

Tomlane

We would truly be of the same mind and speak the same thing;

2 Cor 13:11 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=13&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=11) Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Phil 1:27 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=50&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=27) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

The following must be the hardest thing for us to understand but if we strive for oneness then it must be fulfilled.

1 Cor 1:10 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=46&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=10) Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

If this is not possible then we have to say that Christ is divided.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

I can not help it but aid 2Tim2 verse 15:
2Ti 2:15 StudyG4704 to shewG3936 thyselfG4572 approvedG1384 unto God,G2316 a workmanG2040 that needeth not to be ashamed,G422 rightly dividingG3718 theG3588 wordG3056 of truth.G225
This is the true way of understanding scripture.
In Christ

Does "prove all things" means like prove in a court of law, such as prove innocence or guilt, or to have "evidence of", or prove right or wrong. :confused :hmm:
Example, Before you publicly hold to a particular doctrine and talk to other about it you should be able to prove it. It that the right way to take it?


The Greek word means to "test and examine" it. The verse later goes on to say to hold onto whatever is good (that which is agreeable or true).

So when it says to test all things, it means to scrutinize them until we know them to be true, or at least we have enough justification to believe they are true.

We shouldn't simply accept whatever we hear; we should investigate.

Does "prove all things" means like prove in a court of law, such as prove innocence or guilt, or to have "evidence of", or prove right or wrong. :confused :hmm:
Example, Before you publicly hold to a particular doctrine and talk to other about it you should be able to prove it. It that the right way to take it?

We take after Paul's example which certainly seems less formal and rigid than what would happen in a court of law setting.

"As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures..."
Acts 17:2

Persuasion and argument is needed to allow for a new believer's genuinely inward acceptance which is why conversion by force does not work.

"Proving" is only half the battle. The other half is that the listeners must be humble enough to accept teaching and / or correction. Since the second requirement is even rarer than the first, my hopes are pretty slim on the matter of Christian unity.

It swings both ways. The listener may not be satisfied with the proof and reasoning offered. This process may take time and many attempts from "different angles" depending on the listener's personal leanings. Self-examination on our part should never be neglected. If a student performs badly in school, the teacher is not necessarily free from blame. However, some will be unreasonably obstinate, but we should never come to that conclusion hastily.

Self-examination on our part should never be neglected.
That's precisely what I was getting at. Since there's so little self-examination, the learner's part of "proving everything" is virtually non-existent and will continue to remain so until kingdom come.

Too many people figure they're the teachers and "self examination" is something for their audience.

THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE


"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37.

But they cannot do this unaided:-

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." Jn 6:65 NIV

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14 NIV

THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE


"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37. If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory." See 1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 1:25-28; Philippians 1:2728; Ephesians 4:7.

http://www.mauricejohnsonarchives.com/TheMost.htm

Tomlane


Here's another,

Matthew 9:9 ( KJV )
And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

The Greek word means to "test and examine" it. The verse later goes on to say to hold onto whatever is good (that which is agreeable or true).

So when it says to test all things, it means to scrutinize them until we know them to be true, or at least we have enough justification to believe they are true.

We shouldn't simply accept whatever we hear; we should investigate.


Great post!

This is not an argument for pre or post trib:

I had long held the belief that pre-trib rapture is a truth. Although I don't say that I still agree with this, but for the sake of this example, lets just say that view is a truth.

Now I accepted and held this view, simply because that is what I was taught.
Because I had not myself examined and tested this view, it was someone else's beliefs I held, and not my own.

Could this be likened to sharing someone elses manna from heaven, instead of having our own manna?

Hmmm -

I would have guessed that this was the most neglected command in the Bible:

17 pray without ceasing (1 Thess. 5:17b)

I would also guess that it would be the more likely candidate to propel the church into unity - which I would think that Rev. 8:1-5 bears out.

Why was Pentecostalism singled out?

Denominations in general were given in this thread, not just Pentecostalism. Speaking of Pentecostalism, that has only been around now a little over a hundred years.

Jan 1, 1900 - On Jan. 1, 1900, a Methodist named Agnes Ozman suddenly began speaking fluently in foreign languages; this moment is considered the beginning of Pentecostalism. The movement became more widespread a few years later with the beginning of the Azusa Street, Los Angels California.

http://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+Pentecostalism&hl=en&sa=X&tbs=tl:1&tbo=1&ei=DBEMSqnKF8artgeZ8sz8Bw&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11

Then in 1906, started the so called holiness movement and has been building ever since.

Since Christ started his Church 1900 years previous to Pentecostalism, then it can't be the same church. Also the real church is made of people and is not a movement or a denomination.

Which brings us back to if people would prove all things, their wouldn't be any denominations of any kind.

Tomlane

Since Christ started his Church 1900 years previous to Pentecostalism, then it can't be the same church. Also the real church is made of people and is not a movement or a denomination.The "Real Church" members can be in a movement or denomination though. What is Pentecostalism but God giving the promised Holy Ghost to His called out ones (the Church), and yes manifestations or gifts does happen.


Which brings us back to if people would prove all things, their wouldn't be any denominations of any kind.That might be overly simplistic, until Jesus return there won't be blanket agreement on earth.

I strong believe that Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 16:15, are the one of the most neglected command in the Bible than any other commands. Late Dr. Curtis Huston, President of Sword of the Lord, said, over 90% of Christians in America never witness gospel to people today. That is the fact. He was right.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

THE MOST NEGLECTED COMMAND IN THE BIBLE


"Prove all things ..." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If the unsaved would heed this command they would undoubtedly become saved. Isaiah 1:18; Psalms 34:8; John 7:17; 6:37. If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory." See 1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 1:25-28; Philippians 1:2728; Ephesians 4:7.

http://www.mauricejohnsonarchives.com/TheMost.htm

Tomlane


Why was Pentecostalism singled out?Xel'Naga makes a good point. You claim we should prove all things, i would assume with scripture. Yet if you had followed your own advice you would know that the gifts of the Spirit are indeed active, and so are all 5 of the ministerial offices. Indeed if you had proven all things you would not be denouncing pentecostalism, you would embrace it.

I speak to myself in regards to this matter. The other half after proof is establish is to apply it and make it part of your living................... "these things keep (as in doing them)".

Xel'Naga makes a good point. You claim we should prove all things, i would assume with scripture. Yet if you had followed your own advice you would know that the gifts of the Spirit are indeed active, and so are all 5 of the ministerial offices. Indeed if you had proven all things you would not be denouncing pentecostalism, you would embrace it.

ditto.

Too many times we let our own denominational doctrine or our past revelation dictate our current spiritual experiences. The Bible, however, is our guide - not someone's lack of encounter, past ot present. The Holy Spirit is alive and active, I can promise you that!

Pentecostalism is simply the effect of embracing the Holy Spirit. It takes some longer to accept it than others. When large groups of people accept it at once (1900 years later), we name it and call it a move of God. However, He hasn't changed. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

I am not advocating Pentecostalism or any denomination in particular. The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch. I simply disagree with the idea that the Holy Spirit is dormant because you have not experienced Him.

How could anyone claim that some are not a part of God's church simply because they believe in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? That's a dangerous assumption! :o

The trouble with Pentecostalism is that it is a new denomination, another doctrine added to God's word. Here is the history of Pentecostalism.

In January, 1901, holiness minister Charles Fox Parham asked the students at his Topeka Bible school to study the scriptures and determine what evidence might be given of Spirit baptism. Using the pentecost account in Acts chapter two, they concluded that speaking in tongues was the confirmation of Holy Spirit baptism. This first wave of Pentecostalism spread in the revival that followed, but remained regional, moving into Kansas, Missouri, Texas, and Arkansas.

The 1906 revival at Azusa street, Los Angeles marks the second phase of the Pentecostals’ origins. William Seymour, who studied under Parham in Houston, Texas, carried the message of pentecost to Los Angeles where he began a revival in one of the poorer sections of the city. The Azusa street revival gathered the "ethnic minority groups of Los Angeles," who discovered a "sense of dignity and community denied them in the larger urban culture."3

Source: Assessing the roots of Pentecostalism by Randal J. Stevens http://are.as.wvu.edu/pentroot.htm

God gave all his truth in the scriptures and never mentioned about adding new religions but rather to avoid them.

Colossians 2:8 *Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 *For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 *And ye are complete in him,


God says we are complete in Him there for any new enlightenments of doctrines or new understandings comes from men an not from God for we are already complete in Christ the moment we are born again and we are given the fruits of the spirit as found in Gal. 5:22.

Tomlane

I don't understand the topic...what are we suppose to prove? I read through all the replies and saw nothing that explained what the OP is talking about. I looked up the scripture given and I still don't understand what we are suppose to prove...can someone explain please? thanks

God bless

Moonglow, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. That is what this thread is about.

If more people would study God's word for themselves and take God at his word we would all have unity in Christ the end results would be no dividing of the body of Christ. As it is we have new religions popping up all the time. Just look around you at all the various sects and denominations, they number in the thousands. Only way way is right and that is found in scripture when we rightly divide the word and have proved all things and then we should hold fast to what is good.

Tomlane

The trouble with Pentecostalism is that it is a new denomination, another doctrine added to God's word. Here is the history of Pentecostalism.

In January, 1901, holiness minister Charles Fox Parham asked the students at his Topeka Bible school to study the scriptures and determine what evidence might be given of Spirit baptism. Using the pentecost account in Acts chapter two, they concluded that speaking in tongues was the confirmation of Holy Spirit baptism. This first wave of Pentecostalism spread in the revival that followed, but remained regional, moving into Kansas, Missouri, Texas, and Arkansas.

The 1906 revival at Azusa street, Los Angeles marks the second phase of the Pentecostals’ origins. William Seymour, who studied under Parham in Houston, Texas, carried the message of pentecost to Los Angeles where he began a revival in one of the poorer sections of the city. The Azusa street revival gathered the "ethnic minority groups of Los Angeles," who discovered a "sense of dignity and community denied them in the larger urban culture."3

Source: Assessing the roots of Pentecostalism by Randal J. Stevens http://are.as.wvu.edu/pentroot.htm

God gave all his truth in the scriptures and never mentioned about adding new religions but rather to avoid them.

Colossians 2:8 *Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 *For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 *And ye are complete in him,


God says we are complete in Him there for any new enlightenments of doctrines or new understandings comes from men an not from God for we are already complete in Christ the moment we are born again and we are given the fruits of the spirit as found in Gal. 5:22.

Tomlane

I could not disagree more.

His ways are unsearchable and passed finding out!

Nothing has been added to the Word of God. Just because someone discovers a truth that has long existed in Scripture does not negate the truth itself. It may make men ignorant, but the truth remains. I'm sure there are things that you will discover about the Lord in years to come; does that mean you have "created a new religion"? Of course not!

Actually, on the contrary, we are to "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (2 Pet 3:18).

I could not disagree more.

His ways are unsearchable and passed finding out!

Nothing has been added to the Word of God. Just because someone discovers a truth that has long existed in Scripture does not negate the truth itself. It may make men ignorant, but the truth remains. I'm sure there are things that you will discover about the Lord in years to come; does that mean you have "created a new religion"? Of course not!

Actually, on the contrary, we are to "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (2 Pet 3:18).

Z alan, the way you quoted Romans 11:23 make it seem like we can't know anything for sure.

Here is what that verse say: Romans 11:33 *¶O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

However if you knew your scriptures better you would know believers are given the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16 *For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Since believers are given the mind of Christ and we have all truth found in God's word there is no excuse for adding a new religion or new truth as that is adding to God's word. We are also given the spirit of truth and error.

1 John 4:6 *We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I will agree we all way we learn more from God's word but we don't add to it with a new religion or anything that is addition to what God has already given and call it new revelation. That my friend is one of the fiery darts from the God of this world.

Colossians 2:8 *Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephesians 4:14 *That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 *But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

It would be impossible to speak truth if we couldn't grow up in all things if God was not for us and since we have His word and it is complete, God is not going to add a new religion to the one faith he already has. I do hope these scriptures may be a help to you.

Tomlane.

However if you knew your scriptures better you would know believers are given the mind of Christ.


Tomlane.

I will address this post a little later; I have to be somewhere soon.

Tomlane, for being an older believer, I would hope that you would be sweeter. That is unfortunate. What's the point of personally attacking me?

I will address this post a little later; I have to be somewhere soon.

Tomlane, for being an older believer, I would hope that you would be sweeter. That is unfortunate. What's the point of personally attacking me?

Z alan, It's sad if you took what I said as a personal attack. That is about as far from the truth as you can get.

We are told to try the spirits to see if they are true or false. {1 John 4:1 *¶Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.} That I did with the spirit in which you gave me your reply. I tried them in light of God's word and the way I see it, your statements did not agree with God's word.

Perhaps why you might have felt a personal attack is because God's word is so sharp at dividing asunder soul and spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 *For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Also Z, I'm looking on the brighter side and hoping you have such a tender heart towards the Lord that it felt like an attack. I know any time I'm being carnal {which we all do from time to time, daily in fact} I feel that I'm being attacked in areas where I have carnality in my life. I'm speaking from my perspective and understanding of scripture so you won't feel attacked or whatever.

Since God's word is enlightening we can know his truth about false religions and any other aspect of our lives. Growing in grace is just learning more of the same with a deeper understanding and appreciation in love. Getting involved with false doctrines most always happens to Christians who are still babies and fed with the milk of the word. That is according to Paul.

Tomlane

Perhaps why you might have felt a personal attack is because God's word is so sharp at dividing asunder soul and spirit.


It was not God's words that were hurtful, it was your words and underlying attitude. I think maybe you should practice "answering a man with meekness and fear" (1 Pet 3:15).
I may have misinterpreted it, however, so no hard feelings.

Denominations in general were given in this thread, not just Pentecostalism. Speaking of Pentecostalism, that has only been around now a little over a hundred years.

Oddly enough, you didn't say denominations you singled out Pentecostalism. Leaving my question unanswered.



Which brings us back to if people would prove all things, their wouldn't be any denominations of any kind.

Tomlane

You must not realize how hard it is to prove something.

...If Christians would obey it they would not be uncertain or sectarian in spiritual things. Then, not one single child of God would be mixed up with either Romanism, Modernism, Fundamentalism or Pentecostalism, for we would be built up in "the faith" and would show forth "Christ in us, the hope of glory."

According to Wikipedia, Fundamentalism "is a movement that arose mainly within British and American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to liberal theology, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ."

What exactly is wrong with those beliefs? I'm confused. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Z alan, the way you quoted Romans 11:23 make it seem like we can't know anything for sure.

I didn't say that. However, anyone will tell you that God is not "all figured out". His ways are in the sea!


Here is what that verse say: Romans 11:33 *¶O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

However if you knew your scriptures better you would know believers are given the mind of Christ.

I am aware, thankyou.


Since believers are given the mind of Christ and we have all truth found in God's word there is no excuse for adding a new religion or new truth as that is adding to God's word. We are also given the spirit of truth and error.
I will agree we all way we learn more from God's word but we don't add to it with a new religion or anything that is addition to what God has already given and call it new revelation. That my friend is one of the fiery darts from the God of this world.


I agree with you. We have the inward witness of the Holy Ghost (1 Jn 2:27). He enables us to discern truth and error - no argument there.
However, I am not referring to adding to God's Word (Rev 22:18); I have not once mentioned this. I am referring to uncovering truth that is already present in God's Word. He has before time established it, and we are growing in knowledge towards its realization (see Luke 24:45). Am I confusing you? With the way you sound, it seems as though you are already fully equipped with the whole counsel of God. However, I'm sure don't feel that way.

Luke 24:45 "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures".
Notice that it was the Scriptures they began to understand, not a new "religion" as you assume. These were His disciples!

Acts 16:14 "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

Don't you realize that Paul was writing to Christians when he prayed, "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints..." (Eph 1:17-18).

Just because we have the mind of Christ, does not at all mean we have nothing else to learn or experience.

David wrote, "Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law" (Ps 119:18).

Again Paul writes, "Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:8-12).

Col 1:10 "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;"

Of course God's Word to us is complete. I feel like I need to re-stress that I am not adding to the Bible! I am simply referring to being enlightened with what already exists therein, in this case, the gift of the Holy Spirit as revealed in Scripture. Understand?

So what is the conclusion of the whole matter? Here it is: Just because people are experiencing eternal truths at a later date, does not infer that God's Word or "religion" are being added to or altered.

God bless you, Tomlane.

You are correct it would only increase unity among believers who desire to walk just in God's word. Realistically, as long as people come up with different doctrines from carnality of one form or another we will also have a divided body that fellowships with the unsaved.
As much as I share your zeal for "proving all things," brother, and agree that it's an overlooked command, I cannot agree with your blithe assumption that all distinctions between believers are the product of carnality. That simply isn't true. It is demonstrated to be untrue by scripture, by church history, and by human nature.

Paul and Barnabas had, not merely a doctrinal dispute, but apparently a deep-seated disagreement: indeed, the Bible refers to a "sharp contention" between them (Acts 15:36-40). But the Bible is remarkably silent on the subject of which man (if either) was wrong, or "carnal," or simply mistaken. People are people: especially saved people. We are in Enemy territory, and if we're constantly battling the world, the flesh, and the Enemy himself, it is to be expected that our fellowship with each other, and our understanding of each other, will be imperfect at times. The day will come when we will dwell together in perfect unity; but that day is not yet.

I have my own opinions about the various theologies and interpretations of scripture that have both blessed and blighted the church. I disagree with Calvin much of the time. I disagree with Wesley and Arminius much of the time. But I am not a big enough fool to look back over hundreds of years of history and say that these men were "carnal." Certainly, some of their statements and actions were horrible: Luther's Jew-hatred, Calvin's murder of Servetus. But I cannot dismiss their scriptural interpretations as "carnal," unless those interpretations are blatantly Satanic (like Luther's Jew hatred). I'm not that mature or perfect a Christian. I have enough trouble dealing with my own carnality.

Of course, it's easy to dismiss a monster like Pope Pius XI or a fraud like Benny Hinn. But But you seem to be speaking in much broader terms, saying that any disagreement or doctrinal difference is wrong. I couldn't disagree more.

Yes, there is only one truth. God is not a democrat (small d) or a consensus-seeker or fuzzy in his thinking. Either the Pope has a unique spiritual authority, or he doesn't. Either the 5 Point Calvinists are right, or they're wrong. Either God wants every believer to speak in tongues, or He doesn't. But it is not my place to say that those who disagree with me on these matters are "carnal." That comes very close to judging them. I prefer to simply judge their ideas, and either embrace or reject them. God sees their hearts; I do not.

Anyway, I do not think (as I've said elsewhere) that Christian unity should be the goal of the Christian life, or the Christian church. In the first place, it's horizontal thinking: we're looking at each other, when we should be looking at Him. Jesus' prayer for unity, in John 17:22, has already been answered: we are one in Him, and are seated with Him in Heavenly places. To strive for an earthly unity is more reminiscent of Babel than anything else. It certainly has nothing to do with Pentecost, although the events of Pentecost are often misunderstood that way.



The Greek word means to "test and examine" it. The verse later goes on to say to hold onto whatever is good (that which is agreeable or true).

So when it says to test all things, it means to scrutinize them until we know them to be true, or at least we have enough justification to believe they are true.

We shouldn't simply accept whatever we hear; we should investigate.
Excuse me, beloved brother. I appreciate your affection for the Greek language, but it really isn't necessary in this case. The English word "prove" is defined in one online dictionary as "to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of (the exception proves the rule); to test the worth or quality of: specifically, to compare against a standard ."

It is not always necessary to run to the Greek when a paperback (or online) English dictionary will contain precisely the same information!


:D

Moonglow, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. That is what this thread is about.

If more people would study God's word for themselves and take God at his word we would all have unity in Christ the end results would be no dividing of the body of Christ. As it is we have new religions popping up all the time. Just look around you at all the various sects and denominations, they number in the thousands. Only way way is right and that is found in scripture when we rightly divide the word and have proved all things and then we should hold fast to what is good.

Tomlane

Ok thanks for trying to explain..I still had to check a bible commentary to figure what the the topic is. It means checking any biblical teachings against God's Word, right? Proving, in that sense its true. I thought from the topic we had to ourselves prove something...though I didn't know what. We can prove the bible is the Word of God, we can prove many of the places talked about in the bible were real or still exist today through archeological evidence...we can prove many of the people in the bible really existed. There is quite alot we can prove actually...

But apparently the isn't the type of proof this topic is about.

Of course everything is to be checked against God's Word, but everyone still has a different idea on what a verse might mean...I think that is part of seeing through the glass darkly. On most things the differences are minor and not a salvation issue and I believe God allows for that...here is a good article on it:

What about different denominations? (http://www.carm.org/christianity/answers-seekers/what-about-different-denominations)

by Matt Slick

The reason there are different denominations within Christianity is because the Bible allows for us to have differences of opinions. Within Christianity there are very few essential doctrines that define what it means to be a Christian. These essential doctrines are,

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See Trinity).
7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)

As long as a church believes in these essential doctrines, then it is Christian. However, there are many things in the scriptures that have been interpreted in different ways. For example, what day of the week should be worship on, Saturday or Sunday? Should we baptize by sprinkling or baptize by immersion? Do we take communion every Sunday, once a month, or once a year? The answers to these questions do not affect whether or not someone is a Christian. It is in these issues, and others like them, that denominations are formed. It does not mean that one denomination contradicts another. It means that though they agree in the essentials, they differ in some nonessentials. This is permitted in Scripture:

"Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind," (Rom. 14:1-5).

Sadly, there is another reason for denominational differences and that is the failure of Christians to live according to the will of God. The truth is that we are all sinners and we do not see things eye to eye. It is an unfortunate truth that denominational differences are due to our shortsightedness and lack of love. But, the good thing is that God loves us so much that He puts up with our failures. There waits for us, in spite of our differences, a great reward in heaven. Neither salvation nor damnation is dependent upon our differences. Our salvation is based on our relationship with Christ.

Moonglow, I noticed you put a lot of emphasis on proving the bible through various avenues with human intellect. This is absolutely the wrong way to find God's truth for several reason.

1. When we intellectualize God our natural minds, we will fail every time. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

God is not dug out of the ground or found in good words and fair speeches. Rather God wants us to point them out and avoid them and that is one reason we have so many denominations. Denominations, sects and cults are not of God. Some of the people in them are, but Paul says they are carnal when they divide themselves and follow after other men's doctrines.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 *For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

There is only one faith an not the faith of our choice as denominations would have you believe. Ephs 4:5

2. God is a spirit and we are not going to find much supporting evidence digging in the dirt. We find God through faith and that faith has to be in Christ not in our sinful, carnal minds.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

3. One has to be born again in order to be known of God and to know God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Please notice in the above verse God says we have to be born again of incorruptible seed. That seed is the word of God, and that you can never prove with research except in the scriptures. We have to take God at his word or call Him a liar. We call the Lord a liar every time we don't accept him by believing His word. When we have to prove the things of God, that will never happens as God takes that as rejection of Himself and His word.

4. Romans 10:10 *For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Please notice not a thing is given about proving anything for with God its about believing from the heart. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


5. We can know we are saved because God's spirit witnesses with our spirit. But you have to have faith first by taking God at His word or you will spend your life trying to prove yourself and loose your soul.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the sake of time I will not reply concerning Matt Slick's truths and lies concerning scripture unless you have pacific questions. The man has so much intellectualizing in the things he gave that you posted that it would take an hour and half at least to Give God's truth to his lies. Just to give you one example only.

Slick stated:
The reason there are different denominations within Christianity is because the Bible allows for us to have differences of opinions. Within Christianity there are very few essential doctrines that define what it means to be a Christian.


Here is what God says about denominations.

1 Corinthians 1:10 ¶Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 *With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I could go on with many more verses about unity in Christ that is just the opposite of what Slick is stating. God is allowing denominations but he is not blessing those who have different opinions from his word.

We as believers are to study to show our selves approved not have opinions written in stone but rather prove what is in God's word. 2Tim. 2:15 and believers are to be of the same mind and judgment. That can't be done with different opinions. When we have God's holy spirit teaching us, understanding of scripture is relatively easy in most areas.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

That is not what Slick is teaching now is it?

I hope this may help you a little and thank you for replying, Tomlane

I just now realized a lot of people have asked some very good questions and tomorrow as time permits I will answer as many as I can and hope to finish up the following day.
Thanks again everyone for your fervent interest.

Tomlane :pp

Moonglow, I noticed you put a lot of emphasis on proving the bible through various avenues with human intellect. This is absolutely the wrong way to find God's truth for several reason.

1. When we intellectualize God our natural minds, we will fail every time. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

God is not dug out of the ground or found in good words and fair speeches. Rather God wants us to point them out and avoid them and that is one reason we have so many denominations. Denominations, sects and cults are not of God. Some of the people in them are, but Paul says they are carnal when they divide themselves and follow after other men's doctrines.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 *For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

There is only one faith an not the faith of our choice as denominations would have you believe. Ephs 4:5

2. God is a spirit and we are not going to find much supporting evidence digging in the dirt. We find God through faith and that faith has to be in Christ not in our sinful, carnal minds.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

3. One has to be born again in order to be known of God and to know God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Please notice in the above verse God says we have to be born again of incorruptible seed. That seed is the word of God, and that you can never prove with research except in the scriptures. We have to take God at his word or call Him a liar. We call the Lord a liar every time we don't accept him by believing His word. When we have to prove the things of God, that will never happens as God takes that as rejection of Himself and His word.

4. Romans 10:10 *For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Please notice not a thing is given about proving anything for with God its about believing from the heart. Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


5. We can know we are saved because God's spirit witnesses with our spirit. But you have to have faith first by taking God at His word or you will spend your life trying to prove yourself and loose your soul.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the sake of time I will not reply concerning Matt Slick's truths and lies concerning scripture unless you have pacific questions. The man has so much intellectualizing in the things he gave that you posted that it would take an hour and half at least to Give God's truth to his lies. Just to give you one example only.

Slick stated:


Here is what God says about denominations.

1 Corinthians 1:10 ¶Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 *With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I could go on with many more verses about unity in Christ that is just the opposite of what Slick is stating. God is allowing denominations but he is not blessing those who have different opinions from his word.

We as believers are to study to show our selves approved not have opinions written in stone but rather prove what is in God's word. 2Tim. 2:15 and believers are to be of the same mind and judgment. That can't be done with different opinions. When we have God's holy spirit teaching us, understanding of scripture is relatively easy in most areas.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

That is not what Slick is teaching now is it?

I hope this may help you a little and thank you for replying, Tomlane

Tomlane I think you misunderstood the first part of my post ..the reason I even mentioned things such as archaeology was because I don' understand the your originally post on what we were suppose to be proving...and no ones posts seemed to be addressing this...what kind of proof is what I was asking for so I threw out those examples hoping someone would explain what is being discussed! I thought if I gave an example a better explanation of your original post would come. Because I don't know...I don't know what we are suppose to be proving let alone how to prove it. :confused If the just meant; compare your church's with the bible then why not say that? That I understand. Then give the scripture for it. Other wise I don't know what we are mere human beings are suppose to be proving.

By the way, many people have been lead to Christ and received salvation because of the evidence out side of the bible that proves the bible is the Word of God. Digging in the dirt has lead to this. :)


God is allowing denominations but he is not blessing those who have different opinions from his word.

I agree. And I don't see Slick saying otherwise on this either.

Anyway I am about to give up on this thread because I honestly don't understand the topic...prove what? And how? :B

Anyway thanks for your attempts in at least explaining to me...at least you tried.

God bless