On going debate in my family-The older people-my dad and my brothers think that Christian rap, Christian rock is bad because to them it sounds too worldly, but other younger people in my family--my sister-in-law, my cousins, and me think that it is no big deal as long as it has a good message to the song. I have known some pretty heavy Christian music that portrayed the emotions of the situations and the words perfectly for what I was dealing with at the time, where as my dad and brother more like the slow harmonious music or the peppy gospel music better. My dad has a problem with the beats of the drum, he says that some witch doctors can use it to call demons, but I am sure that the Christian bands would do no such thing with their beats. He says we are supposed to be different than the world and our music should not sound similar to secular bands, but then if that is the case why not do everything different than the world than just music?

I like most music genres but I would like to see what you guys think.

The Bible does not condemn any form of musical instrument or style of music...anywhere. Your family member's opinions are not founded in scripture therefore there is no basis for them outside their own feelings. Anytime this subject comes up, I challenge the person against Christian rock, metal, rap, etc to find scriptural basis for their stance and they never can. All they have is their own words.

The Lord is pleased when we sing praises to Him. His desire is for us to lift His name up and return the love that He holds for us. I can show song after spirit-filled song praising the Lord's name with burning passion. Songs from genres that people despise just because some label them as evil from their own perceptions. So I say, as long as the music is glorifying God, rock on.

"Oh Lord my God
When I in awesome wonder
Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder
Thy power throughout the universe displayed
And when I think that God his Son not sparing
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in
That on that cross my burden gladly bearing
He bled and died to take away my sin
When Christ shall come with shout of acclamation
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart
Then I shall bow in humble adoration
And there proclaim my God how great Thou art
(Then sings my soul)
How great thou art!
My God how grear thou art!"

Brownie points to the person who can name that band...unless a certain someone gets here first. :P

Hi!
I agree with JerAyala. I have thought that maybe "worldly sounding" music was not great - even though I liked it. Ultimately though I couldn't find any scriptures that say it's bad. As far as what your father is saying about drums, there are drums in even traditional gospel... there is some sort of percussion in a large percentage music, so I'm confused as to why he draws that conclusion. However, if a particular person avoids drums because of what it evokes to THEM, then that's great--- for THEM.
As for me, I love gospel- traditional (Clark Sisters, Mahalia Jackson) as well as the r&b type (Kirk Franklin, Mary Mary, Smikey Norful, Yolanda Adams) as well as christian "pop" and a bit of the chritian rap as well. IMHO if the music brings you closer to God and Christ, if it helps you praise our God, go for it! It's all about making a joyful noise for the Lord!! :pp

we are told to abstain from all appearance of evil. We are told that Christ hath no concorde with Belial. The worlds music be it rock or cw or ccm is aimed at the flesh. It makes to toe tap long before it gets to the heart. A church should not sound like a honkey tonk. The tenor of the music program reflects the tenor of the preaching. Modern rock music will get a crowd but they will leave the same way they came in. Unchanged and no closer to knowing the Savoir. Christ lived pure, holy and separated unto God. Christ never gave quarter to the devil. How can men be convicted of sin if they fail to see the righteousness of God in us? Come out and be separate unto Me. There are a lot of verses on the separation from worldliness unto godliness.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

So you're trying to say that the Lord frowns upon certain kinds of music, even when they glorify and lift up His name? I'm sorry but I disagree greatly. Living apart from world doesn't mean only partaking in certain (decided by man) genres of music. It means using your music to praise the Lord and lift Him up instead of what the world praises and lifts up.

So you're trying to say that the Lord frowns upon certain kinds of music, even when they glorify and lift up His name? I'm sorry but I disagree greatly. Living apart from world doesn't mean only partaking in certain (decided by man) genres of music. It means using your music to praise the Lord and lift Him up instead of what the world praises and lifts up.
The Lord has said don't go in for all the filth of the world. Know ye not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:16 ...as He who has called you is holy so be ye holy in all manner of life. 1 Pet 1:15 Adding Jesus' name to rock and roll does not make it holy nor does it glorify God's name. The so called Christian rockers are making big bucks polluting God's holy things. Those who partake of things that pollute and profane God's temple can never know the spiritual scarifices acceptable to God. They may be saved but they never grow, never maturing past milk, saved as it were pulling them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude23
I offer not an opinion of my own but I offer what the word has to say on the subject.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

can't any music be secular if the world uses it so? what if the world decided to use gospel sounding music and put different words to it? Would we then abandon it?

On going debate in my family-The older people-my dad and my brothers think that Christian rap, Christian rock is bad because to them it sounds too worldly, but other younger people in my family--my sister-in-law, my cousins, and me think that it is no big deal as long as it has a good message to the song. I have known some pretty heavy Christian music that portrayed the emotions of the situations and the words perfectly for what I was dealing with at the time, where as my dad and brother more like the slow harmonious music or the peppy gospel music better. My dad has a problem with the beats of the drum, he says that some witch doctors can use it to call demons, but I am sure that the Christian bands would do no such thing with their beats. He says we are supposed to be different than the world and our music should not sound similar to secular bands, but then if that is the case why not do everything different than the world than just music?

I like most music genres but I would like to see what you guys think.
All Christian music is comparable to a genre of secular music.

The Lord has said don't go in for all the filth of the world. Know ye not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:16 ...as He who has called you is holy so be ye holy in all manner of life. 1 Pet 1:15 Adding Jesus' name to rock and roll does not make it holy nor does it glorify God's name. The so called Christian rockers are making big bucks polluting God's holy things. Those who partake of things that pollute and profane God's temple can never know the spiritual scarifices acceptable to God. They may be saved but they never grow, never maturing past milk, saved as it were pulling them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude23
I offer not an opinion of my own but I offer what the word has to say on the subject.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

No, you offer your own twist of the Word. All you have here is your own conceptions. You think rock, rap, metal to be evil and yet nothing in Scripture lines up with this. Christ tells us, "true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship Him." Is not the Lord's concern the condition of the heart? Unless one can show me through Scripture that my music is evil and unacceptable before God or the Lord Himself convicts my heart which I pray for earnestly every day...there is not a single thing that can shift my stance. I will continue to praise the Lord with as much passion as I can offer.

Peace be with you.

No, you offer your own twist of the Word. All you have here is your own conceptions.
If you position had merit you would not resort to so base a response. I will not strive with you on this subject. Scripture is clear on separation and holiness. God alone can direct your heart in this matter. Gal 5:16-26 compares the fruit of the Spirit with the flesh. Chapter 6 vs 14-16 ...God forbid that I should glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision but a new creature...as many as walk according to this rule peace be upon them...

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

You can claim my position is without merit all you want. None of the evils spoken of in Galatians 5 line up with this.

Originally posted by PictCry

He says we are supposed to be different than the world and our music should not sound similar to secular bands, but then if that is the case why not do everything different than the world than just music?

Your statement here is, in my opinion, the central question to any debate within Christianity. During the time of Christ, there were several different views of the world that scholars can extract from the evidence.

1. Sadducees: People who made deals with the Romans to keep their way of life and their status in society.
2. Zealots: People who were willing to go to war with Rome to keep their way of life.
3. Pharisees: People who tried to keep their way of life by following the Torah and making lines between true followers of God and those who were not true followers of God.
4. Qumran: These people broke off from the world to live in their own communities in caves (where we later get the dead sea scrolls).

Your father appears, from what I've read, to take the pharisaic view of the world. There is one "moral" music (Christian music) and a "worldly" music (secular music). There must be lines drawn that separates those who follow God and from those who don't follow God. The lines are what John Ortberg calls "boundary markers" (in his book "The life You've Always Wanted"). Boundary markers are when things like not listening to certain types of music, certain societal practices (like not smoking, not drinking, etc.) and not participating in other societal norms as the definition of Christianity. Usually, Ortberg argues, these boundary markers are superficial.

Not only are these boundary markers superficial, but they must be decided from within the community. The community must decide what defines "Christian music" and what is "secular music." How does one do this? Does the song have to use the word God or Jesus to be considered Christian? Anyone venture out to define what Christian music actually is? I have never heard any good arguments for how to separate the two.

that is a very interesting point of thought. thank you for your objective view ColdFire136!!

" Praise the LORD.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.

Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.

Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,

praise him with tambourine and dancing,
praise him with the strings and flute,

praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD."
-Psalm 150

God is the Creator of the Universe, the Beginning and the End, he created music and its every aspect; we should use it all to praise Him!

If our heart's are in the right place when we sing this music, there is nothing to fuss about. To suggest that God would want us to stop worshiping him because the music sounds like that of the world is very close-minded. It is not the guitar or the drum that matters, it is the voices raising up God's holy name. If the voices praise God, why does it matter about what music is playing accompany that?

If our heart's are in the right place when we sing this music, there is nothing to fuss about. To suggest that God would want us to stop worshiping him because the music sounds like that of the world is very close-minded. It is not the guitar or the drum that matters, it is the voices raising up God's holy name. If the voices praise God, why does it matter about what music is playing accompany that?
I heard a man say an open mind is like an open window it works best if you have a screen in it.
If a bartender has his heart in the right place can he purvey strong drink and praise God?
If a prostitute has her heart in the right place can she ply her trade and praise God?
How about the murderer, the theif, or the drug dealer? All these can become saved by the grace of God but like the woman taken in adultery and brought before Christ the command is to go and sin no more.
The history of rock and roll is replete with horrifying accounts of sex, drugs and all manner of perversion. Christ is not to be identified with such ungodlyness.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

Every genre of music can be used secularly. So who decides what genres are "good" and what genres are "bad"?

I like Contemporary Christian Music, but I don't much like the CCM sound. I like it better when it brings the drums back in, drops the champagne bubbles and the over-orchestration, and rocks out.

I like traditional hymns, but I like them better when they're played in rock style. The classic Lutheran hymn, A Mighty Fortress is Our God just begs for some power chords!

And I like really old Christian music, from before the traditional hymns, such as baroque (Bach's Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring). classical (Handel's Messiah) and Gregorian chants.

Can we have Christian abortionists? Actively aborting babies.
Can we have Christian pedophyles? Actively defiling children.
Is it unreasonable to expect that if the old man was crucified with Christ and we are to be dead to sin and alive to Christ, that our manner of life change to conform to our new life as a child of God? Are we not exhorted to abstain from all appearance of evil? What if our appetite for rock and roll tempo music causes someone who is unsaved to remain unsaved? How can we be obedient to Christ is we refuse to be light and salt in this world? Salt that has lost its savor is cast into the street and trodden under foot. Unpleasant questions that take us to the burden of the cross we are each required to bare for our Saviour if we are to worthy.

The rock and roll beat is very seductive. Scary how much it is like the pleasure of sin for a season.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

You're comparing a genre of music with murder and sexual immorality? The latter two are spoken against in the Word. No were in the Bible...no where at all is any kind of music or musical instrument spoken against. Saying something is evil doesn't hold water on its own. I live my life according to Scripture and compare my heart against it. I've made my case here, brother. If you still hold fast to the same notion, then there's really not much else I can say. Blessings to you.

One last thing...sin may be pleasurable, but not everything that is pleasurable is a sin. I find studying my Bible and volunteering to help others to be very pleasurable.

I heard a man say an open mind is like an open window it works best if you have a screen in it.
If a bartender has his heart in the right place can he purvey strong drink and praise God?
If a prostitute has her heart in the right place can she ply her trade and praise God?
How about the murderer, the theif, or the drug dealer? All these can become saved by the grace of God but like the woman taken in adultery and brought before Christ the command is to go and sin no more.
The history of rock and roll is replete with horrifying accounts of sex, drugs and all manner of perversion. Christ is not to be identified with such ungodlyness.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

Please define for me what music is acceptable and what is not.
I will use Jimmy Swaggart as an example. Swaggart has always been entertaining to say the least. His life has been Sad, but still entertaining. He has preached for years against Christian rock music. What is Ironic is that he uses the "honkey tonk" style of piano playing in his Christian music. You can not tell any difference in his music and his cousin's Jerry Lee Lewis, night club music. "Honkey tonk Piano" is Ok, but lead guitar is not? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Where do you draw the line? What instruments are Godly and what instruments are Satanic. What rhythm or mix of the instruments is Christian, and at what point does it become Satanic? Satan perverts What God intended for His use. Our voices, hands, and bodies were created to praise the Lord. Because Satan has made a perversion of something, does not mean we have to give up the origional.
To people years ago, the piano and organ were seen as new, modern, secular instruments that had no place whatsoever in worship. Now, they are a mainstay, and you would be hard pressed to find a Church in the United States that does not have some form of them. The guitar it was evil, then depending on how it was played it might be evil and might be Ok. The drums were the same way. It is really quite lunatical if one just steps back and looks at it.
In 1500 the music we sing today in the most conservative of churches would have been seen as an abomination.

Can we have Christian abortionists? Actively aborting babies.
Can we have Christian pedophyles? Actively defiling children.
Is it unreasonable to expect that if the old man was crucified with Christ and we are to be dead to sin and alive to Christ, that our manner of life change to conform to our new life as a child of God? Are we not exhorted to abstain from all appearance of evil? What if our appetite for rock and roll tempo music causes someone who is unsaved to remain unsaved? How can we be obedient to Christ is we refuse to be light and salt in this world? Salt that has lost its savor is cast into the street and trodden under foot. Unpleasant questions that take us to the burden of the cross we are each required to bare for our Saviour if we are to worthy.

The rock and roll beat is very seductive. Scary how much it is like the pleasure of sin for a season.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

The problem with this example is that you are using a faulty leap in logic. You are saying that if item "A" is sin, then a Christian in good conscience can not participate in item "A."

The problem is that you have yet to establish the fact that Item "A" (in this instance Christian rock music) is sin.

You must establish that Christian rock music is sinful before you can say that Christians should distance themselves from it.;)

I rededicated my life to Christ at a Christian rock concert some 20 years ago. This type ministry reached me and was very effective to me. If you opened your eyes and looked at the whole picture, you would see that many young people are won to The Lord through this type ministry. Souls are won and the kingdom of heaven is enlarged through this ministry. I still love Christian rock music. I do not from a stylistic point like some of the newest music, but that is because I am old. The lyrics are strong, and they present the message of salvation. Because I personally do not like the music does not mean it it wrong. It just means I am old. :rofl::rofl:

Please see my post in the following thread regarding the same thing:

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=178171

Everyone has their taste in music and deserves to worship as they please according to their own musical interests. Christian rock is specifically for that; to reach a different audience who enjoys praising God, but with other forms of music.
It could be said, that some of the non Christian rock music isn't enthusiastic enough or outdated. How silly does that comment sound? Probably a lot, because there is no truth in it. The same can be said about people who state that Christian rock isn't a legitimate form of worship.

Please check out my above link which has several links to Godly Christian artists.

( And I can say now, that the church I attended and played in the praise band with, covered many Christian contemporary rock artists, and we DEFINITELY knew how to praise the Lord. The church I attend now also plays contemporary music which is GREAT for praise. If you like that type of worship )

The Lord has brought to mind 1Sam8 where the people desired a King like the all nations. These were heathen nations so the thing displeased Samuel. They persisted and the Lord said that they have not rejected Samuel but that they had rejected the Lord. I see a clear parallel here between the desire of Israel to be like the heathen nations round about them and the desire of the new church to have the music like the heathen round about them. No amount of pleading is going to turn your hearts from this folly.

My heart is broken for you. I leave you with this admonition from Hebrews 3:10-13 ...They do always err in their heart and they have not known my ways...take heed brethren lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the Living God. But exhort one another daily while it is called Today lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfullness of sin.

I cannot reconcile your position with 1 Thess 5:21-22 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

I consider Romans 14:13-22 esp vs 15 But if thy brother be greived with thy food (music) now walkest thou not in love. Destroy him not with thy food (music) for whom Christ died. to be a very high standard to which we all to be held. I am certain that I have transgressed and that many times the mercy of Christ has been needed to correct me but that does not change Gods standards on the matter.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

The Lord has brought to mind 1Sam8 where the people desired a King like the all nations. These were heathen nations so the thing displeased Samuel. They persisted and the Lord said that they have not rejected Samuel but that they had rejected the Lord. I see a clear parallel here between the desire of Israel to be like the heathen nations round about them and the desire of the new church to have the music like the heathen round about them. No amount of pleading is going to turn your hearts from this folly.

My heart is broken for you. I leave you with this admonition from Hebrews 3:10-13 ...They do always err in their heart and they have not known my ways...take heed brethren lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the Living God. But exhort one another daily while it is called Today lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfullness of sin.

I cannot reconcile your position with 1 Thess 5:21-22 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

I consider Romans 14:13-22 esp vs 15 But if thy brother be greived with thy food (music) now walkest thou not in love. Destroy him not with thy food (music) for whom Christ died. to be a very high standard to which we all to be held. I am certain that I have transgressed and that many times the mercy of Christ has been needed to correct me but that does not change Gods standards on the matter.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

Wow!! All I can say is wow! I'm always flabergasted by Christians who behave like this.

Let me ask you, exactly what kind of church are you learning this type of behavior and view points from?
Do you always try to use the bible as a weapon against fellow Christians, and condemn people for the types of music they listen to, when in fact you know nothing of the persons character or the music recommended? ( And even if you did know a persons character it wouldn't be for you to judge, particulalry for fellow Christians listening to contemporary worship music and praising the Lord through this. ) WOW!!!! :eek:

Seriously, I'm not one to judge, and won't judge you, but it sounds to me like you have a lot of praying to do and soul searching. I am genuinely curious as to what your motives are, and why you would attempt to hurt other Christians feelings on this board, instead of encouraging others?

God bless

(P.S - I'm a HUGE David Crowder fan and also enjoy many different contemporary worship groups. I love listening and praising the Lord to David's music in our contemporary worship services on Sundays. If you're nearby, I'd like to invite you out for fellowship and worship to check it out! )

you guys it is enough, You are all starting to brow beat each other about nothing! Music is not so important in life that you must start degrading each other on their spirituality. I only asked a question to resolve a long lived family question and debate. One CAN like without music you know, neither rock nor metal nor easy listening nor the organ music is so important that you must argue like chickens!!!

If you position had merit you would not resort to so base a response. I will not strive with you on this subject. Scripture is clear on separation and holiness. God alone can direct your heart in this matter. Gal 5:16-26 compares the fruit of the Spirit with the flesh. Chapter 6 vs 14-16 ...God forbid that I should glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision but a new creature...as many as walk according to this rule peace be upon them...

For the cause of Christ.
Roger
My question would be this:

Is Handel's "Messiah" acceptable while "Music for the Royal Fireworks" is not?
One praises God, the other is a musical piece for a government celebration.
Yet both are considered "classical" music. Which one do I listen to so as to avoid sinning with my ears?
Do I need to avoid listening to the Bill Gaither Trio? I hear drums in the music. Or "Revelation Song" which is directly quoting the songs we will be singing in Heaven due to the fact an electric guitar is being used?
Or how about U2's "40" where Bono directly quotes Psalm 40:1-3?
I have never understood the argument how a "style" of music is sinful over another. It has always come from someone who just plain out doesn't like the type of music.
Lyrics I will agree with are very important to pay attention to. There are many secular artists who use their God-given talents to openly mock Him and glorify pleasures of the world.
I think you're argument about music should be based on lyrics & intent, not on style.

you guys it is enough, You are all starting to brow beat each other about nothing! Music is not so important in life that you must start degrading each other on their spirituality. I only asked a question to resolve a long lived family question and debate. One CAN like without music you know, neither rock nor metal nor easy listening nor the organ music is so important that you must argue like chickens!!!


Wow this is becoming intense!haha

Well if my Christian Rock and hardcore are not good because they sound like the world then we can discount gospel music since it lines up with soul music.

In fact I am going to go out on a limb and say, if we allow to let the world shape the way we live our lives, since we are not to be as them, we are going to keep on going into this spiral down of Christianity becoming weaker and weaker since many conservative Christian want to roll over and keep everything at this flat plane that we have been at! I grow weary of this, but for the sake of the enemy let us only have one type of music, gospel for the sake of tradition of man. For we should stop bringing praise to GOD in the different types of music because they don't uphold the the traditions of men.

So I'll just stop listening to my Christian metal and stop turning my friends to my(christian) music and let them keep on listening to the junk that the world has to offer.

Matthew 15:3
"And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

Though it is no command it is this, that the LORD GOD would be Glorified! And all flesh would be made foolish in HIS sight and all things of the flesh would be done away with!!!

There that's what I think:lol::lol:

I take the stand that anything the world does, Christians shouldn't do.

That means that because non-christians eat, we shouldn't
They also sleep, so Christians must be careful not to rest their eyes.
Living in houses is the way of the world, Christians should not have homes.
Art is appreciated by non-Christians, therfore it is sinful to look at a painting.
People of the world light fires, Christians should not. After all the heat and the flames are seductive like sin.
If you like drinking water you're a sinner
Do you appreciate beauty in the world- if so you're going to hell.
Washing yourself in the morning is done by non-Christians- Surely God wants us to forget hygeine.
Reading books is a definite no no.
Do you have a hobby? Well you can't have one!

Rock music and rap is listened to by sinners- we must abstain from it.
In fact I think we should go the whole hog and forget music all together.

That is my logical and scriptural view of how God wants us to live- oh wait did I say that- I meant my illogical and unscriptural view.

You guys...While you know I share your position, we should remember to speak in an level-headed and edifying manner. Sarcasm and disparagement don't help validate an argument. So as a brother, I just ask that you please keep that in mind.

You guys...While you know I share your position, we should remember to speak in an level-headed and edifying manner. Sarcasm and disparagement don't help validate an argument. So as a brother, I just ask that you please keep that in mind.

Thank you. :)

And as a sister in Christ and facilitator for this forum, I'll also ask that all of us in this thread, and in other YA threads, speak out of respect for one another and use the level-headedness that JerAyala has mentioned here. If anyone needs to walk away from a thread for a bit and take a breather.... then please do that that breather and come back later when you're more calm. But please do speak to one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I didn't mean to offend anyone- I was only joking

But if you want a more serious comment than my last, I will use this scripture:

"25-28With that as a base to work from, common sense can take you the rest of the way. Eat anything sold at the butcher shop, for instance; you don't have to run an "idolatry test" on every item. "The earth," after all, "is God's, and everything in it." That "everything" certainly includes the leg of lamb in the butcher shop. If a nonbeliever invites you to dinner and you feel like going, go ahead and enjoy yourself; eat everything placed before you. It would be both bad manners and bad spirituality to cross-examine your host on the ethical purity of each course as it is served. On the other hand, if he goes out of his way to tell you that this or that was sacrificed to god or goddess so-and-so, you should pass. Even though you may be indifferent as to where it came from, he isn't, and you don't want to send mixed messages to him about who you are worshiping.

29-30But, except for these special cases, I'm not going to walk around on eggshells worrying about what small-minded people might say; I'm going to stride free and easy, knowing what our large-minded Master has already said. If I eat what is served to me, grateful to God for what is on the table, how can I worry about what someone will say? I thanked God for it and he blessed it!

31-33So eat your meals heartily, not worrying about what others say about you—you're eating to God's glory, after all, not to please them. As a matter of fact, do everything that way, heartily and freely to God's glory. At the same time, don't be callous in your exercise of freedom, thoughtlessly stepping on the toes of those who aren't as free as you are. I try my best to be considerate of everyone's feelings in all these matters; I hope you will be, too. " (1 Corinthians 10 - The Message)

The same logic that Paul applies to food can be applied to music: Everything is allowed, but not everything is beneficial. So we can listen to whatever music we want, for all music was created by God for our enjoyment. So if anyone invites you to a concert of any kind, you are free to go. However, if an unbeliever tells you that the music is being lifted up to the devil to praise his unholy name then don't go. Not because it is sin (because in and of itself it isn't) but because by going you may cause that unbeliever to stumble.

But other than these cases (which are uncommon) all music is permissible, in the same way that all food is permissible to eat unless you would cause an unbeliever to become confused about who you worship.

Paul also says somewhere (I can't remember where exactly) that in matters such as these, no one should condemn a believer for what they do or don't do. Neither stance is sinful, but arguements about the subject can be- and can cause believers and unbelievers alike to stumble.

Being a musician who is also a Christian, who writes and plays "rock" music and glorifies God doing it, I would say it's perfectly fine as long as it's not pushing you away from God.

One of the biggest problems is the lack of originality in a lot of Christian music. People are afraid to do things because they seem "unholy" or "too creative". Give me a break.

I can weep over hymns, but I can write a good, solid guitar riff too.


Let me ask you a question - which came first, "rock" or the Rock?

Is a man's creation and assembling of notes and styles more powerful than the Creator who created the notes and assemblies?

Is rock music an abomination to God, or is it the lifestyle that accompanies it?

Can a jazz pianist fornicate and get away with it? Or can a Christian play any style of music he or she wants, live blamelessly before God, and be just as guilty?

Did the devil "create" rock music? Or did sin simply walk in and accompany it?


Remember, judge no one in food or in drink, for all things are from the Lord. Don't let the devil steal the original just because he's made a carbon copy of what God intends for good. The rock music isn't bad; it's the lifestyle of drinking, sex, and drugs that accompany it.

There is an obvious line that you can cross when it comes to playing live; I've seen "Christian" rock bands that sweat like pigs, whip their shirts around, eat the microphone, and dance like crazy people, putting on a rock show, and then at the end saying "oh yeah, we're Christians, and Jesus rocks!". Give me a break, please. I've run into similar "Christians" who listen to Bob Dylan and get baked and think about the stars.

The real question is - is it glorifying God? It's not the style of music, it's who you're glorifying. I fronted a Christian band a year or so back and God gave me a lot of songs to write for the band. As time went on some of my motives drifted and the rest of us were more focused on exposure and "getting good" than glorifying God. It's one of my weaknesses. We lost our mission plan and by God's grace our success deteriorated pretty fast. I said we need to get back to square one. It never happened, so I kept praying to God to either bring us back on track or to disband us. We disbanded. Were we sinning? We were off track but not because of our music. I've seen more tension in worship practices.

Is there an "attitude" to rock? Of course. Many times it's rebellion. Is rebellion a good thing? Not usually, but it depends on what you're rebelling against. If God has matured you, you can play rock music for the Lord and have a good time, overflowing with joy and peace, rebelling against the "old" worldly ideals that have brought so many low. Who needs the drugs? Just praise the Lord and have a good time!

So the real question is - where is your heart? Are you number 1? Or are you simply the arrow that points to heaven?

When you're up on stage and you're playing in front of people, whether it be as a shining vocalist, a ripping guitar player, or a percussionist perfectionist, you're going to get looked up to. People are always going to shake your hand after the show or the service and say "you did a really good job", etc. But here's the real test... do you take it in stride and let it go to your head? Or are you simply grateful that the Lord has gifted you that it bubbles out and you end up saying "I appreciate that, the Lord was really here today and He blessed us all"?

A lot of people condemn drums. I've had some awesome worship experiences praising the Lion of the Tribe of Judah with crashing cymbals and huge builds. I've been evacuated into God's throne room by playing my acoustic guitar. I've felt the Lord use my hands and fingers to play a beautiful sounding solo that I had almost nothing to do with. I've had the Lord create feedback in a perfect key, in an amp that never feeds back, just to praise His Name.

God is the God of the Heavens, He's not restricted to certain music. As I said, it's not the style of music, it's the heart that's behind it.

You can sing hymns all day long and still be a satanist at heart. You can play hip-hop, alternative rock, heavy metal, and jazz and still glorify God if that is your mission.


And one last thing to add, people have always been condemning things, especially music, in the church. Songs written in a minor key used to be considered satanic; pianos and organs were the devil's toys, and even drums are still condemned in some churches.

I used to worry about what people said. But you know, I have the Holy Spirit. If Christ saw something wrong with my gifts, He wouldn't have given them to me to begin with. There's been times I've tried in legalistic ways to work around my natural style, but it always fails. It's my niche. God has given me my own sound, my own style, and my own rhythm. I work best in what I was made for and the talents I have been given. And *gasp*, people have even been brought closer to the Lord because of these talents and styles the Lord has given me.

So, speaking as a sinful "rock" musician, I would say it's completely fine to listen to good Christian bands that glorify God and His Son Jesus Christ. :)


Be encouraged.

:agree: Listen to this man, he's got it right

I used to worry about what people said. But you know, I have the Holy Spirit. If Christ saw something wrong with my gifts, He wouldn't have given them to me to begin with. There's been times I've tried in legalistic ways to work around my natural style, but it always fails. It's my niche. God has given me my own sound, my own style, and my own rhythm. I work best in what I was made for and the talents I have been given. And *gasp*, people have even been brought closer to the Lord because of these talents and styles the Lord has given me.

So, speaking as a sinful "rock" musician, I would say it's completely fine to listen to good Christian bands that glorify God and His Son Jesus Christ. :)


Be encouraged.

I don't think I could have put it any better than this.

The Lord has said don't go in for all the filth of the world. Know ye not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:16 ...as He who has called you is holy so be ye holy in all manner of life. 1 Pet 1:15 Adding Jesus' name to rock and roll does not make it holy nor does it glorify God's name. The so called Christian rockers are making big bucks polluting God's holy things. Those who partake of things that pollute and profane God's temple can never know the spiritual scarifices acceptable to God. They may be saved but they never grow, never maturing past milk, saved as it were pulling them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude23
I offer not an opinion of my own but I offer what the word has to say on the subject.

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

I looked the peter one up and it says NOTHING about that because that is your own opinion(i had a english teacher that thought that was spelled openion)not the Word's. like the other guy said. Nice try though:saint:

On going debate in my family-The older people-my dad and my brothers think that Christian rap, Christian rock is bad because to them it sounds too worldly, but other younger people in my family--my sister-in-law, my cousins, and me think that it is no big deal as long as it has a good message to the song. I have known some pretty heavy Christian music that portrayed the emotions of the situations and the words perfectly for what I was dealing with at the time, where as my dad and brother more like the slow harmonious music or the peppy gospel music better. My dad has a problem with the beats of the drum, he says that some witch doctors can use it to call demons, but I am sure that the Christian bands would do no such thing with their beats. He says we are supposed to be different than the world and our music should not sound similar to secular bands, but then if that is the case why not do everything different than the world than just music?

I like most music genres but I would like to see what you guys think.

I think that there's a really cool song that you might like to hear. I'm too scared to post any kind of links on this site (for fear of doing something wrong with the rules and all) but the song is called "Why does the Devil get all the good music?" It's really great and fun to listen to, so maybe you'd like to hear it.

I also listen to Christian screamoes so don't feel too bad. (I love people and bands like Toby Mac, Demon Hunter, etc.) In fact, I feel that screamoes, when they sing about how we need God in our corrupted world, potray they're sadness and pity for the world better than most other songs (in my opinion, of course). If you're really sad or upset or emotionally thrilled then what do you normally do? Scream! That's what I do! Plus the bible says to make a joyful noise/shout to the lord. No matter the tune, do your best at fulfilling that request!

God Bless!

Christian Music is defined by its lyrics and its purpose not by the medium in which it is played.


If I praise God over a guitar, or over a hip hop beat. What's the difference? The arguements aganist styles of christian music are quite illogical.

Anyways, I am going to post a very good answer and insight on Christian music(from a Christian website):

1) The purpose of music. Is music designed solely for worship, or did God also intend music to be soothing and/or entertaining? The most famous musician in the Bible, King David, primarily used music for the purpose of worshipping God (see Psalm 4:1; 6:1, 54, 55; 61:1; 67:1; 76:1). However, when King Saul was tormented by evil spirits, he would call on David to play the harp in order to soothe him (1 Samuel 16:14-23). The Israelites also used musical instruments to warn of danger (Nehemiah 4:20) and to surprise their enemies (Judges 7:16-22). In the New Testament, the apostle Paul instructs Christians to encourage one another with music: “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” (Ephesians 5:19). So, while the primary purpose of music does seem to be worship, the Bible definitely allows for other uses of music.

2) The style of music. Sadly, the issue of music styles can be very divisive among Christians. There are Christians who adamantly demand that no musical instruments be used. There are Christians who only desire to sing the “old faithful” hymns. There are Christians who want more upbeat and contemporary music. There are Christians who claim to worship best in a “rock concert” type of environment. Instead of recognizing these differences as personal preferences and cultural distinctions, some Christians declare their preferred style of music to be the only “biblical” one and declare all other forms of music to be unwholesome, ungodly, or even satanic.

The Bible nowhere condemns any particular style of music. The Bible nowhere declares any particular musical instrument to be ungodly. The Bible mentions numerous kinds of string instruments and wind instruments. While the Bible does not specifically mention drums, it does mention other percussion instruments (Psalm 68:25; Ezra 3:10). Nearly all of the forms of modern music are variations and/or combinations of the same types of musical instruments, played at different speeds or with heightened emphasis. There is no biblical basis to declare any particular style of music to be ungodly or outside of God’s will.

Obviously, the best kind of music is that which praises and glorifies God. Talented Christian musicians work in nearly every musical genre, ranging from classical to rock, rap, and reggae. There is nothing inherently wrong with any particular style of music. It is the lyrics that determine whether a song is “acceptable” for a Christian to listen to. If anything leads you to think about or get involved in something that does not glorify God, it should be avoided.


Music can be used to praise God or it can be used for some other reason. It doesn't matter what style the music is. There are alot of mediums in this world that can be used for God or could be used for something else not of God. People who are arguing aganist music styles are attacking mediums, not the source behind it(which is the most important), this is the same logic atheist use when attacking Christians. They look at someone who uses the bible for evil purposes and instead of holding the invidiual responsible, they put blame on the bible itself.

You know what I'd love to hear? Christian techno.

Hahah, that would be pretty sweet.

Ask and you shall recieve........


j572RVgVPWo

I like Christian music (all kinds) as long as I can understand it and it depicts Jesus, and our love and glory to Him for him, tells the truth and is real.

(He heals us, Gives us hope, Loves us, Holds us, Listens to us, Blesses us, He gave his life for us!!! We have the choice for everlasting life with Him!!! etc...etc...etc...How awesome!!!) Music can share this....These songs are a blessing and worship to his name and part of decipleship to connect with others. The beat of that music reaches who He wants it to reach if it is done for His Glory!
Music as long as it is glorifying Him is Worship!
It is meant to bless him and bring us closer to him!

It gives the oportunity to secular (Worldly) people to connect to Jesus in a new way that maybe they never would have done before. There is something they can feel connected to and not "Different" and not worry about being shunned from us Christians for trying a new approach to Christ being new in Christ. All babes have to grow wouldn't it be great if they could feel invited and not rejected because of being different. Christian music tells about Jesus and his gift to us of salvation......It can help deliver His message.

Isn't it our job to reach others who need him? Isn't Christian rock music a great way for those who like rock to hear His word in song that they would never have listen to if it didn't have a intoxicating rythm to keep their attention so they would listen to HIS WORD and LEARN to CHOOSE HIM? God reaches sinners in His own way and His own time how dare anyone judge or stop that!

The key is sinners would HEAR the Word and hopfully accept it. I have a 14 yearold daughter who tries to reach her unsaved friends through music (Christian Music) and eventually brings them to church as their hearts soften for Jesus. She has brought 12 kids from our neighborhood and school friends to the lord in the last two years, and it all started with Christian Rock or Rap Music.

Tell me how that can be bad! Isn't that a blessing and our job to bring sheep to the fold of God?

How can that be wrong?

God created it for a reason and I suggest we use it for his glory!

Deetiff

There's a lot of awesome Christian music out there. Ranging from Praise and Worship, to Metal you can find it for sure. Just always make sure the band members themselves are Christians and that the lyrics portray a God-glorifying message and you'll be good.

The lyrics, not the instrumentation, are what give a Christian song it's value.

If a flute player and a saxophone player wanted to join a worship team, would the saxophone player be denied because saxophones are connected to jazz music, which has some sinful connections? I don't believe so.

Also, I saw it argued that the genre of rock music was originally used for sinful purposes, so it is therefore sinful. If someone who made pornography found Jesus, shunned their previous behavior and lived in Christ, would it be sinful to listen to what they had to say? I highly doubt that.

Is there an "attitude" to rock? Of course. Many times it's rebellion. Is rebellion a good thing? Not usually, but it depends on what you're rebelling against. If God has matured you, you can play rock music for the Lord and have a good time, overflowing with joy and peace, rebelling against the "old" worldly ideals that have brought so many low. Who needs the drugs? Just praise the Lord and have a good time!

Kind of a neat idea.

God turned a sinful instrument of torture into a symbol of Life: The Cross
It was originally used to crucify thousands of Jews simply because they believed in worshipping one God.

If God can do it with the cross he can certainly do it with 'sinful' music.

A very insightful thread! Working on behalf of the christian based Send a Cow Charity - I thought I would share this with you all - they have created a worship resources document. We’ve included prayers, hymns, readings and suggestions for children’s activities that you can adapt to suit your church. I hope you like it :)

Speaking of Christian music, Once Dead (Vengeance Rising minus Martinez) and Believer (after a 16 year hiatus) have both released brand new albums :D

Music is a gift from God, no matter what the style. I listen to a very wide genre of music, from the extreme metal (38th Parallel, Skillet), to soft, classical (Phil Keaggy, John Michael Talbot).

Some people will probably never change. So, just let it go (not give up your music!). They can listen to whatever they want, and you are free in Christ to listen to your music.

Speaking of Christian music, Once Dead (Vengeance Rising minus Martinez) and Believer (after a 16 year hiatus) have both released brand new albums :D

Never heard of them. Do you have any links with samples ... ???

Never heard of them. Do you have any links with samples ... ???

Believer - Medwton (Audio quality isn't the best, a bit of the beginning is missing) h9WPPNE98rA

As well as their myspace: http://www.myspace.com/believermusic

Once Dead, you'll have to look on myspace: http://www.myspace.com/oncedeadband

I grew up in a more conservative background and lately have been trying to find concrete answers for all that I stand for. As far as music goes, it's become quite clear to me. I've looked through this thread and it seems like the same song is sung from every users post. This is what I think, when God's Word calls me to gentleness, humility, and abstinence from every form of evil (even the look of it), and when I listen to metal, rock etc. it does not reflect this kind of attitude for me, I have a hard time thinking deep intimate worship to overpowering and ground-shaking music.

Another point, if I listen to music and it takes me half the song to even realize that it has christian lyrics than I consider that to be something to think about. Speaking from the perspective of a musician, music has a great power to take over our emotions, and when an unbeliever is going to be bumpin' "Jesus Music" through his dual 15" subs because of the secularized beat?! Quite often before even thinking about how to set the tone for praise and worship in their music, a lot of artists will be consumed by the thought about which beat is going to move the people quicker to a few tears or toe-tappin, and in my opinion many church visitors going to church worship think that it's the presence of God coming over them when they get all excited over a song when in fact it's just them simply underestimating the power of emotions. Yes emotions are God given and they are altered when you are truly filled with the spirit of worship, but you must also know the other side of the argument.

One way I always test music, if I take away the music away and sing with just my voice will my heart be filled with so much praise that I won't need that beat, or whatever it might be playing? It just seems like music has just been a prerequisite for praise and worship to our God when in fact we should walk in that daily.

Music should compliment our song to our God not dominate it.

I think that if any one of these stated arguments in your opinion is somewhat valid than there may be something to rethink and reconsider as far as music goes.

If there are any opposing thoughts or arguments I would love to be enlightened. God Bless!

Well, music is not only its melody just as much as it is not just its accompaniment (assuming you're talking about homophonic music, which you almost certainly are). So seeing if the music has the same effect when you just sing the melody doesn't make much sense.

Also, there is no actual reason that metal/rock/etc., in a purely musical sense, are "less sacred" or holy or whatever than anything else. There is no such thing as a specific style of "religious" music, which can be anything from monophonic chant to the polyphonic gaming of medieval composers to Bach to Berlioz's Grande messe de morts and its twenty percussionists to Penderecki's avant-garde, ear-grating St. Luke Passion to modern popular "Christian music" of any genre--rap, metal, rock, country, easy-listening pop (I disdain most "Christian music" in that latter sense, but never mind). If one kind of music is better at evoking religious feelings for you, then great, but that doesn't mean there's anything objectively more spiritual about that music.

God likes keeping things fresh and new. Look at the OT. The prophets he spoke through all had different writing styles, and he didn't override their natural styles - rather, he utilized them. Same way with music. There are many types of music that have been used to worship and honor God: a capella, classical, hymns, psalms, etc.

That being said, I have to agree somewhat with some of the people who have not been totally in favor of contemporary Christian music. My first church since being a born again believer had a piano, but we also had a contemporary band - guitars, bass, drum, keyboards, those kinds of things. But they weren't making headbanger music. Compared to some bands nowadays, they could almost qualify as soft rock.

(BTW the band I'm talking about is called elmwooddrive. Judge for yourself: http://www.myspace.com/elmwooddrive)

Some modern Christian music, I think, is debatable. I didn't even know Flyleaf was a Christian band when I heard their song "All Around Me"! And then there's some bands with that deep, gurgling, screaming voice and other rappers.

I think this is one of those situations where it's entirely personal opinion. In 1st Corinthians, Paul talks about how some people consider days more sacred than others. I suppose that could apply here, too. I personally view a negative connotation of rap, heavy metal, R&B, and whatnot. So I wouldn't readily accept those into my church for worship. However, there may be others out there who do not have the same negative views of the genres.

And in case you've seen some of my past posts about music, you'll see I'm a bit of a Christian electronica fan. Electronica/techno has got to be one of the most "sinful" genres, as it is found in the club scene. But for me anyways, a 7-minute electronic song of bass and drums can be made into an acceptable Christian song provided it had discernable lyrics that make it Christian.

...secularized beat?!

This is where I stop reading, stop taking people seriously.

This is where I stop reading, stop taking people seriously.

I'm sorry I have a hard time understanding what you are saying, could you please elaborate?

I'm sorry I have a hard time understanding what you are saying, could you please elaborate?

I read and am involved with an endless amount of arguments over 'beats' and syncopation. One thing that makes me throw my hands in their air in frustration is the idea of 'secular beats' or, even crazier, that certain notes are not Godly in nature. So, I don't mean to express my frustration at you, I know you're stating your opinion and you took the time to express it. It's just when you hear the same thing over, and over, and over, and over again, it gets old.

People who are against Christian Rock or Christian Rap have yet to show me where in the Bible it says we can't do it.

Praising the Lord with loud crashing cymbals and stringed intruments makes me think God likes it.

I think part of the problem is the generally negative connotation that rock and rap have with the Christian community and generally anyone not into those things. What are rock stars known for? Their drug usage. (There could be others, I'm not sure. I don't have much against rock stars.) What are rappers known for? Promoting alcoholism and promiscuity. I won't say they're not inherently sinful types of music, but the way they've been utilized by singers makes them not known for anything good. So to bring such "evil" seems to violate the "Be holy" command of Romans 12:2 and other places.

I think part of the problem is the generally negative connotation that rock and rap have with the Christian community and generally anyone not into those things. What are rock stars known for? Their drug usage. (There could be others, I'm not sure. I don't have much against rock stars.) What are rappers known for? Promoting alcoholism and promiscuity. I won't say they're not inherently sinful types of music, but the way they've been utilized by singers makes them not known for anything good. So to bring such "evil" seems to violate the "Be holy" command of Romans 12:2 and other places.

It is true, this negative connotation. However, it seems to me us Christians have an aptitude for taking negative things, like crosses, and making them messages of hope.

I have seen this take place. A guy listens to rap and yes has bad words and does promote bad things. This same guy listens to a Christian rap group. Loves it!! Awesome words, awesome beats. Ask most people that listen to rap why they listen to rap and most will tell you for the beats. I like rap beats. I love rock and when I hear Christians songs that are rocking then I think God would rather me take a positive message than a negative one regardless of how the instruments sound. However, for me personally I try to research all the bands I listen to. I read song lyrics, look at websites, etc... Just kind of an accountability thing.

The same logic that Paul applies to food can be applied to music: Everything is allowed, but not everything is beneficial. So we can listen to whatever music we want, for all music was created by God for our enjoyment. So if anyone invites you to a concert of any kind, you are free to go. However, if an unbeliever tells you that the music is being lifted up to the devil to praise his unholy name then don't go. Not because it is sin (because in and of itself it isn't) but because by going you may cause that unbeliever to stumble.



But other than these cases (which are uncommon) all music is permissible, in the same way that all food is permissible to eat unless you would cause an unbeliever to become confused about who you worship.

Paul also says somewhere (I can't remember where exactly) that in matters such as these, no one should condemn a believer for what they do or don't do. Neither stance is sinful, but arguements about the subject can be- and can cause believers and unbelievers alike to stumble.

I agree for the most part, but let's say my brother-in-law were to ask me to go to a 50 Cent concert, would I go, absolutely not. I love the beats and music of Hip Hop(I listened to this music for over 20 yrs. of my life). Now, 50 Cent may not say that he is raising this music up to Satan, and neither would my brother-in-law probably consider 50 of doing this...but in reality 50 Cent is doing just that, because what his songs are encouraging are the very actions and behavior that Satan tempts us to involve our lives with that will separate us from God. This kind of content is entirely corrupt.
If this were another Christian asking me to go to the same concert...I can not in good conscience believe that God in anyway would approve of this. A Christian wouldn't even want to listen to this music...you can't tell me that God would condone listening to these types of songs. Wouldn't that grieve the Holy Spirit?
I don't know if you were implying this, and if you weren't, I apologize for implying that you were.

I agree for the most part, but let's say my brother-in-law were to ask me to go to a 50 Cent concert, would I go, absolutely not. I love the beats and music of Hip Hop(I listened to this music for over 20 yrs. of my life). Now, 50 Cent may not say that he is raising this music up to Satan, and neither would my brother-in-law probably consider 50 of doing this...but in reality 50 Cent is doing just that, because what his songs are encouraging are the very actions and behavior that Satan tempts us to involve our lives with that will separate us from God. This kind of content is entirely corrupt.
If this were another Christian asking me to go to the same concert...I can not in good conscience believe that God in anyway would approve of this. A Christian wouldn't even want to listen to this music...you can't tell me that God would condone listening to these types of songs. Wouldn't that grieve the Holy Spirit?
I don't know if you were implying this, and if you weren't, I apologize for implying that you were.

You know, we blame a lot of things on Satan that we're responsible for and we tempt ourselves with.

Follow the condemnation of forms to its logical conclusion.
Secular music "looks like" the world. All forms of music, at one time or another, in one place or another, were secular. Therefore if one condemns secular forms one condemns all music.

I would encourage the OP's family to embrace the fullness of their doctrine and, like me, strive towards a completely music free life.

You know, we blame a lot of things on Satan that we're responsible for and we tempt ourselves with.

I'm not saying that 50 Cent is tempting anyone, if that's what you're arguing here.

I know we've had this conversation in another forum, but let me ask you this.

Do you think God sees a Christian person riding in their car listening to 50 Cent...and I mean 50 Cent specifically and says....I am okay with this child of mine listening to this music? I don't presume to know what God thinks, but I do not what scripture tells me His nature is and he does not approve of the detestable things that 50 Cent speaks of and does not want those who He calls His to associate themselves with these things.

Just because you aren't involved in the actual things that 50 Cent may be talking about, you are in fact entertaining these things by simply listening to it. Because if follower of Jesus is to hate the things that God hates...then a Christian would most certainly hate the things that 50 Cent talks about with all the passion in the world. Do you, disagree with these things that I have said.

I'm not saying that 50 Cent is tempting anyone, if that's what you're arguing here.

I know we've had this conversation in another forum, but let me ask you this.

Do you think God sees a Christian person riding in their car listening to 50 Cent...and I mean 50 Cent specifically and says....I am okay with this child of mine listening to this music? I don't presume to know what God thinks, but I do not what scripture tells me His nature is and he does not approve of the detestable things that 50 Cent speaks of and does not want those who He calls His to associate themselves with these things.

Just because you aren't involved in the actual things that 50 Cent may be talking about, you are in fact entertaining these things by simply listening to it. Because if follower of Jesus is to hate the things that God hates...then a Christian would most certainly hate the things that 50 Cent talks about with all the passion in the world. Do you, disagree with these things that I have said.

I think you misunderstand, my disagreement is that not everything is Satan's doing. We're plenty naughty on our own.

We're plenty naughty on our own.


Yes, indeed we are. I take all the blame for my sins. I choose to do the things I do. Just as Jesus made a way and the choice is mine to either accept HIS WAY or accept the WRONG WAY.

It seems I did misunderstand, my apologies.

I read and am involved with an endless amount of arguments over 'beats' and syncopation. One thing that makes me throw my hands in their air in frustration is the idea of 'secular beats' or, even crazier, that certain notes are not Godly in nature. So, I don't mean to express my frustration at you, I know you're stating your opinion and you took the time to express it. It's just when you hear the same thing over, and over, and over, and over again, it gets old.


To make myself more clearer, so I'm just not restating what seems to be restated in the forum. All that we do is to reflect God, His character, his humble spirit. If in an album all that I see reflected are the lyrics (if i can hear them), there is something fishy. If we are truly consumed by God, the artwork, the titles of the songs, EVERYTHING is supposed to scream out "I LIVE ONLY BY HIM!". But if artists are leaving their bands because now they are atheists and God haters, I can only think about what caused that exactly.

To make myself more clearer, so I'm just not restating what seems to be restated in the forum. All that we do is to reflect God, His character, his humble spirit. If in an album all that I see reflected are the lyrics (if i can hear them), there is something fishy. If we are truly consumed by God, the artwork, the titles of the songs, EVERYTHING is supposed to scream out "I LIVE ONLY BY HIM!". But if artists are leaving their bands because now they are atheists and God haters, I can only think about what caused that exactly.

Uh huh ...

To make myself more clearer, so I'm just not restating what seems to be restated in the forum. All that we do is to reflect God, His character, his humble spirit. If in an album all that I see reflected are the lyrics (if i can hear them), there is something fishy. If we are truly consumed by God, the artwork, the titles of the songs, EVERYTHING is supposed to scream out "I LIVE ONLY BY HIM!". But if artists are leaving their bands because now they are atheists and God haters, I can only think about what caused that exactly.

Then how come the target only ever moves for Christian musicians using secular styles? Nobody complains about the pew warming hypocrite halfheartedly singing Amazing Grace. That's ok. Because Amazing Grace is a sacrosanct favorite of tradition. But let some young man play his guitar with his whole soul and boldly sing a message the world hates, and guess what happens. "Oh, look at the close he's wearing". "Oh look at him go on tour". "Oh, these beats make me feel". Then it becomes a campaign of dismissal. It "looks like the world" because people want it to look like the world, and they'll use as large a double standard as they can get their arms around.

Secondly, are you surprised that people in these bands leave out of frustration and/or abandon the church? They are, after all, performing amongst Christians... possibly the most self effacing and internally intolerant population to have ever existed. I ask myself how I'd feel if I had that kind of musical talent. Would I give up a shot at rich financial rewards, give up the message of the world, put myself in harms way... only to have people who don't even know me call me out for being worldly. Why bother?

But in spite of these two points, I have surrendered myself to the "narrowest standard". I got rid of the rock music. But I also followed the standard to its logical conclusion. Since all musical styles at one point or another have been put to worldly purpose, then they all must go. It is a drab and miserable affair, but it is never-the-less necessary.

I hope this doesn't fall under the category of necroposting (I also hope I'm using the right word and concept). My favorite Christian album has changed.

Favorite Secular: Human After All by Daft Punk
And my new favorite Christian album: Jesus Is: Remix by Hillsong London. It's electronic Christian music that moves me more than most of my non-electronic music does.