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View Full Version : What do you think of this quote from Marcus Aurelius?



Alone
Oct 14th 2009, 04:28 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

Desperaux
Oct 14th 2009, 05:33 AM
Marcus Aurelius didn't know Jesus, obviously. No one will welcome someone who doesn't know Him, and it is impossible to live a good life or a noble one without Him.

Alone
Oct 14th 2009, 10:36 AM
Marcus Aurelius didn't know Jesus, obviously. No one will welcome someone who doesn't know Him, and it is impossible to live a good life or a noble one without Him.

There's an old teacher of mine who is agnostic now works to educate special needs kids. He's trying to do good in the world and he doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

tt1106
Oct 14th 2009, 10:41 AM
What's good? This quote is from a man who's society used to throw "not perfect" children to their death. Do you see the ridiculousness of that contradiction. That is the problem, there is only one truth, and that is the Bible.
If we leave truth up to people, then they will create their own truth and that truth will be based on their personal views.

God is wholly Good and Wholly just. He offers us ONE way to be with him.
All we have to do is accept that.

webhead
Oct 14th 2009, 06:40 PM
What's good?

http://www.glacierscafe.com/GlaciersImages/ice%20cream.jpg

tt1106
Oct 14th 2009, 06:49 PM
http://www.glacierscafe.com/GlaciersImages/ice%20cream.jpg

Quoted for truth.^

Desperaux
Oct 14th 2009, 09:22 PM
There's an old teacher of mine who is agnostic now works to educate special needs kids. He's trying to do good in the world and he doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Good works doesn't get anyone anywhere with God. We must accept Jesus as Saviour in order to be received by Him. There is only one way to God--Jesus. As you say you are a Christian, you already know that.

Your old teacher may be considered a good man by the world, but it's God who judges and he considers all of our own righteousness as filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6
We are all infected and impure with sin.
When we display our righteous deeds,
they are nothing but filthy rags.
Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall,
and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

thepenitent
Oct 17th 2009, 04:11 PM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

Lot of irony in one of the greatest persecutors of Christians of all time lecturing others to "live a good life".

watchinginawe
Oct 18th 2009, 03:40 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.This is a veiled judgment of God. I recognize it because I believed this at one time. Honesty is a high virtue for this thought. It goes something like this (especially for agnostics IMO): Using our innate faculties in the contemplation of God, we can't know for sure if God exists. Much less so that if He does exist that He is the Christian God. Therefore, the honest approach is to hold the existence and identification of God open. This is a more honest approach than those who proclaim God in some specificity. If there is a God, and He is just, then certainly He will find this contemplation in a favorable light.

Now the judgment comes close to the end there. If God is not virtuous according to what we count as virtuous, then God is not virtuous. Thus, God is judged, if He exists, according to our standard. Continuuing...
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. A God that rejects honesty (rejects us in our contemplation of Him) is not worthy of our worship anyway. In this case, God's judgment is arbitrary and unjust if He judges us doubtfully. So even if there is an afterlife, we choose to continue to exist with our high virtues by not offering a God that would reject us our worship.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."A virtuous life is therefore defined by man and brings nobility among mankind.

God Bless!

mcgyver
Oct 19th 2009, 12:01 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

This has been re-quoted a little differently:

"The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions....." :lol:

Or to put it another way: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36 KJV)

Ol' Marcus was wrong. ;)

Gulah Papyrus
Oct 19th 2009, 02:08 AM
http://www.glacierscafe.com/GlaciersImages/ice%20cream.jpg

Brilliant post! A perfect example of how our version of 'good' is simply not applicable.

Steven3
Oct 19th 2009, 02:27 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

This sort of attitude is something Paul was familiar (Isaiah 22:13) "Let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die".

Interesting historically since Marcus Aurelius lived 121180 it sort of illustrates the general crisis in pagan religion into which Christianity came. As many early church writers observe the "old gods" were dieing anyway. God arranged for Christ to be born - and Paul to preach - at a time when the surrounding Gentile nations were more receptive than they would have been a couple of generations earlier.

jimm
Oct 25th 2009, 04:30 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

Granted he wasn't a Christian, but I've always been sort of irked by the sort of 'faith' some of these stoic philosophers had in God--I don't think the mentality that "if he exists, then we're good; if not, it doesn't matter anyway" translates well into Christian Faith

theBelovedDisciple
Oct 27th 2009, 04:33 PM
There's an old teacher of mine who is agnostic now works to educate special needs kids. He's trying to do good in the world and he doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

If he doesnt 'know' Jesus what does that tell you? Do you think he still be will be Heaven based on 'his good works' and all the 'good he does"?

can he get there 'without' knowing Jesus?

Jesus Said He was the Way, the Truth and the Life...

and all of our 'righteousness' our good works and good deeds..

are but Filthy Rags when compared to the Purity and the Righteousness of God.. which is the Person of Jesus the Christ... and what He accomplished on that bloody Tree..

as far as Marcus's statement...

there is Only One True God... the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob... He is Eternal....

all the rest of the 'gods' are but 'idols'.....

if Marcus had known Jesus the He would of 'known 'this.. that there is

Only One True God.. and that Life is found in His Son.. Jesus the Christ..

Beloved by God
Oct 29th 2009, 04:01 PM
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

...........and the Word says.........

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

EarlyCall
Oct 29th 2009, 04:21 PM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

The greatest single leap in knowledge and understanding comes to each person not in this life but at the moment of death.

Marcus has had this moment.

GitRDunn
Nov 2nd 2009, 12:24 AM
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

The problem with this line of thinking, which many people still follow to this day, is that good is a very arbitrary word. If you believe that living a "good" life will assure you a place in Heaven when you die, ok, then tell me how you know that you've lived a good life? Many people would tell you that if you are nice to people, try to help others, etc., then you are a good person, and they would also tell you that you are a bad person if you would go and blow up a bunch of people with a suicide bomb. The problem is, if you talk to certain religious extremists, they would say that you are good for killing/injuring a bunch of people with a suicide bomb because it is God's will. There is just no way to judge for sure what is good.

Luckily, God doesn't leave us this ambiguity. Through Jesus he provides the one sure path to eternal life in Heaven. And it's so simple too. All we have to do is accept the Grace and forgiveness offered to us through the death and resurrection of Christ and we will be saved and will live eternally in Heaven.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say in a very long-winded way is that Marcus Aurelius believed what many people believe, but unfortunately for him that belief is not one that would lead to everlasting life in Heaven.

Athanasius
Nov 2nd 2009, 12:33 AM
I don't understand why I should care if there is no God.

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