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Buck the Apostle
Nov 4th 2009, 02:33 PM
At what point in His life did Jesus realize that He was fully God?

decrumpit
Nov 4th 2009, 03:33 PM
At what point in His life did Jesus realize that He was fully God?

Good question!

More than a few scholars say that each Gospel writer had his own say about this, with Mark saying his Baptism "Behold, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", Matthew and Luke saying his birth (these are the only two that mention a virgin birth story) and John saying from all time, because he is the Word incarnate.

I am led to wonder about why he was agonizing in the garden, if he knew that he would be crucified in accordance with prophecy.

I am interested to hear what you all have to say.

Nobunaga
Nov 4th 2009, 04:03 PM
Good question!

I am led to wonder about why he was agonizing in the garden, if he knew that he would be crucified in accordance with prophecy.

I am interested to hear what you all have to say.

The cup of wrath

The Father was always well pleased with His Son, Now He was about to be forsaken by His Father and the wrath that was destined for me and you..... Our Lord Drunk the cup of wrath for us so we could go free........

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

If there is a more heartbreaking/sad/joyous/glorious verse in the Bible i would like to hear it. This brings it home how much it cost to reconcile sinners to a Holy God and how so very much He loves us !

It was not the cross that He was troubled about, He was about to become sin for us and the experience the wrath of God, so we could go free. Thank you Lord Jesus Glory to God !

BroRog
Nov 4th 2009, 04:12 PM
At what point in His life did Jesus realize that He was fully God?

What do you mean "fully" God?

Buck the Apostle
Nov 4th 2009, 05:03 PM
I am wondering at what age did Jesus realize that He was FULLY God. Or did He know that from His birth - that He was fully God. I find that hard to believe given the nature and maturity of new born babies.

I understand that He was the Word made flesh, as stated in John, but did He "loose" that information when the incarnation happened?

Buck the Apostle
Nov 4th 2009, 05:10 PM
Ill clarify even further. Philippians 2, a passage we are all familiar with, says that Jesus "emptied" Himself. To what extent did Jesus empty Himself? Did He empty Himself of all the "knowledge" that He had since He was is fully God?

Was there a time when Jesus was reading the Torah as a young child where he read the story of creation and suddenly He begins to remember that He is way more familiar with the story then the words that were written.

I hope I am making sense.

-SEEKING-
Nov 4th 2009, 05:47 PM
Ill clarify even further. Philippians 2, a passage we are all familiar with, says that Jesus "emptied" Himself. To what extent did Jesus empty Himself? Did He empty Himself of all the "knowledge" that He had since He was is fully God?

"5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." - ESV

If you read the whole paragraph it gives the sense of a release of power or authority, more than a removal of divinity. Does that make sense to you?

decrumpit
Nov 4th 2009, 07:41 PM
The cup of wrath

The Father was always well pleased with His Son, Now He was about to be forsaken by His Father and the wrath that was destined for me and you..... Our Lord Drunk the cup of wrath for us so we could go free........

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

If there is a more heartbreaking/sad/joyous/glorious verse in the Bible i would like to hear it. This brings it home how much it cost to reconcile sinners to a Holy God and how so very much He loves us !

It was not the cross that He was troubled about, He was about to become sin for us and the experience the wrath of God, so we could go free. Thank you Lord Jesus Glory to God !

Well, I guess my question would be if he knew that he was receiving the cup of wrath, why it troubled Him.

blessedmommyuv3
Nov 4th 2009, 07:53 PM
Well, I guess my question would be if he knew that he was receiving the cup of wrath, why it troubled Him.

Separation from the Father would be devastating. And taking on the vilest of sins when He had never knew any sin at all, heart wrenching.
Think of all the depravity that has existed in the past, and that of today, and the future, and think of how you would feel to have that thrust upon you if you were completely pure and innocent and holy; now compound that by the fact that the Father, with whom you have shared communion always, would turn His back on you in that moment in which you bore that sin, and your connection with Him would be severed.
That is what Christ did for you and I.


In Christ,
Jen

notuptome
Nov 4th 2009, 08:03 PM
Well, I guess my question would be if he knew that he was receiving the cup of wrath, why it troubled Him.
I'm certain the Lord will give a much better explaination when we get to heaven but I will make an attempt to articulate my observations.

The Lord was enquired of by the sons of Zebedee desiring a special place in the kingdom of God. The Lord told them they could drink of My cup. Mat 20:20-28 We have the Lords cup in the communion Mat 26:26-29 Again the Lord speaks of the cup He must receive in vs 39 and 42. The Lord expressed for our benefit not for His the magnitude of the sacrifice He was going to make. He knew the depth of the agony He would experience when He made His soul an offering for sin. Isa 53:10 When you partake of the Lords cup in the communion think on these things.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Buck the Apostle
Nov 4th 2009, 09:00 PM
If you read the whole paragraph it gives the sense of a release of power or authority, more than a removal of divinity. Does that make sense to you?

What you got wrong is that I do not think He had His divinity removed. All Im asking is at what point did He realize He was divine.

BroRog
Nov 4th 2009, 09:19 PM
What you got wrong is that I do not think He had His divinity removed. All Im asking is at what point did He realize He was divine.

What do you mean by "divine"?

Buck the Apostle
Nov 4th 2009, 09:21 PM
"5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." - ESV

If you read the whole paragraph it gives the sense of a release of power or authority, more than a removal of divinity. Does that make sense to you?

I meant divinity. The moment He realized He was God.

notuptome
Nov 4th 2009, 09:31 PM
I meant divinity. The moment He realized He was God.
From before eternity began.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

theBelovedDisciple
Nov 4th 2009, 10:51 PM
It was His Testimony that He was the Son of God, the Son of Man..

which was and Is True......

that was Blasphemey in the eyes of the Sanhedrin...


how could a meek lowly carpenter claim to be God's Son and Eternal... this poor man who had no beauty that anyone would desire Him, this man who was accused by many of the religious leaders to be 'born out of fornication'... but He was Born thru the Work of the Holy Ghost.. this man who ate and drank with harlots, tax collectors, publicans, the unrighteous...how could this man be the Messiah? this man never even kept the Sabbath correctly...

how could this be the Son of God...???

this was blasphemey in their eyes.. and this is what Put Christ on the Cross...


there was a time in His Minsitry when the Pharisees confronted Him.. about Abraham.. and they said your not even 50 years old.. and you know and have seen our Father Abraham....

Jesus said.. Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it...

and then He told them

Verily, Verily, I tell thee... Before Abraham was... I am.....


When Jesus made this statement.. He 'knew' that He was God.. and that He was Eternal.....

whether He 'knew' that as a very young child, or a baby.. not sure...

the Word(Jesus) has always been.. He has always been God...

when He came to this earth.. He didn't 'leave' His Divinity or become undivine because He stepped out of Heaven... and He didn't leave His Power and Authority there either.. if that was the case. .then those devils that 'recognized' him as the Holy One of Isreal... these recognized him before any of the religous elite... and Jesus's Power and authority over them.. by the Finger of God... these devils would of never hearkened and obeyed Him... when He spoke to them....

but they didn't.. they Obeyed.. and even the people wondered...

"even the unclean spirits and devils obey Him at His Word"


'who is this Man'??

He had it when He was here.. never left it..


never lost it at all..

even when He hung on the Bloody tRee...

He has always been God and Always will be...

Forever...

He is the Alpha and the Omega...

He is the One Who Created time and space.... and thru Him and the Power of His Word.. everything exists.. and He upholds everything with the Word of His Power... this is because He is Eternal and everlasting...



Before Abraham was I am..... A powerful Witness to the Reality to Who He really Was...

and He 'knew' It....

Aservantonthemount
Nov 4th 2009, 11:24 PM
It is my opinion that He has always known that He was fully God. There is an example where He blatantly states His position while talking to the Pharisees in John 10. He clearly states that He and the Father are one, thus declaring His Godhood to men.

It is my opinion that although He came to earth as the embodiment of both God and man, He was sent here for a certain mission. That mission required Him to be "limited". He could not fully utilize His abilities as God, because He had to die for our sins. As we all know, God can not die. However, In order for Christ to fulfill His mission, He had to. Therefore, while He was on this earth, His power as God was limited to that of a human who has completely obeyed God with all of His heart. This is why He had stated to His disciples that they will be able to do all that He had done, and even greater things than that. (But that's another topic for another thread).

It is my opinion that the agony that Lord Jesus experienced at the Mount of Olives is that of a man who knows that he is about to die. Not very many people can understand the fear and dread that comes with the knowledge of dying. Not even Lord Jesus could ignore it. It is very human for anyone to dread the prospect of dying, especially if you are dying for someone else sake. To me, the agony of Lord Jesus before His capture only illustrates that fact that Lord Jesus was very human. God or not, no one wants to die. Lord Jesus, fully God and fully human, did not want to die, as every sane person should feel.

I mean, I don't want to die, and unlike Lord Jesus, I do not know if I am meant to die before I grow old. Lord Jesus not only knew that He was going to die relatively young, but He also knew when He was going to die. If I had such knowledge, I would freak out myself.

Now imagine being God, but in order to fulfill your Father's mission for you, you have to undergo severe pain and agony before marching to your death at Golgotha. You have the power to stop all of this, but you have to let it happen. How would that make you feel?

Sirus
Nov 5th 2009, 12:59 AM
What you got wrong is that I do not think He had His divinity removed. All Im asking is at what point did He realize He was divine.I don't think -SEEKING- said His divinity was removed.
"a release of power or authority,"
"more than a removal of divinity"
The focus was on "a release of power or authority"

When did He know?
12 or before
Luk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
but after infancy.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
If you don't know to choose the good over the evil how can you know you are God?

Buck the Apostle
Nov 5th 2009, 03:58 AM
So what you are saying is that at the age of four Jesus knew that He was God in the flesh?

That is what I am getting at here. What age specifically did Jesus come into the revelation that He was fully God? Personally, I do not think He fully knew it at the age of 4.

Sirus
Nov 5th 2009, 04:13 AM
I said after infancy, I don't know where you get four. Why do you think anyone would know the year? That's the question! Oh, and why could he have not known at 4?

Buck the Apostle
Nov 5th 2009, 04:16 AM
4 was just a random number. I know He knew at some point after intimacy that He was God and most likely before the age of 12. Im just asking for curiosity sake.

webhead
Nov 5th 2009, 04:22 AM
Remember when he was 12? Jesus stayed behind at Jerusalem at the Temple Courts. He new he was divine then.


Luke 2:49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

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