Ugh. My son is 14 now and has been going through a huge and long growing spurt which I know can make him feel more tired...but I think its also just being a teenager. He is just awful so many mornings with waking up for school. Yet as the evening goes on he gets more and more awake! So by bedtime he is not the least little bit sleepy...:B then morning comes...and its grumbling and groaning and "I'm tired"...hiding under the covers...:rolleyes:

Anyway I have been doing a little research on the net and it appears this is normal..which I don't want to hear! Well not that I want to hear this is abnormal..lol...but I mean, I don't really want to go through this for four, five or more years. :B

Here is part of what one article says on research done on this..sleep problems in teenagers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/carskadon.html
It's interesting. When we talk about how sleep is controlled by the brain, we really are talking about two systems. One is the system that fills the tank at night, and the other is the biological clock system. It sets up a sort of cycle of when it's easy to fall asleep and when it's hard to fall asleep. Those times when it's hard to fall asleep we call "forbidden zones" for sleep.

We see in many adolescents that this forbidden zone is in the evening hours. So they actually feel great at night and, for many of them, that makes it harder for them to even consider trying to go to bed earlier. So they'll say goodnight to Mom and Dad and they'll go into their rooms and read or play video games or talk on the phone. And they're perfectly content and happy doing that, because they're also at a phase where it's easy for them to become aroused and stimulated by these activities. So it really does turn into a Catch--22. When people just say, "Well, all they have to do is go to bed earlier," well, they really can't go to sleep earlier necessarily.

So anyway having him to go bed sooner isn't going to work it appears..:( ..I guess this is normal for a teenager..but I am wondering if anyone on here has found something that works..helps their teenager be sleepy when they need to be so they can get to sleep at a decent time. Its frustrating to pick him up after school and he is complaining he is tried but as the evening goes on, he becomes more and more awake! then comes morning and he doesn't want to get up cause he is so tired. :help:

This morning I complained again how frustrating this was trying to get him to wake up and he said, well its not exactly fun for me either..its not like I can help it. :cool:

God bless

Hello :) my daughter went through the same thing! In the health food section, I found some homopathic chewables that helped her to relax and fall asleep. It's all natural, and my husband and I take them too! I can't remember the name off the top of my head but there are several brands out there, anything with melatonin...and again, it's all natural. There are also teas that help relax and sleep, also located in the health food section of most grocery stores. Good luck :)

Ugh. My son is 14 now and has been going through a huge and long growing spurt which I know can make him feel more tired...but I think its also just being a teenager. He is just awful so many mornings with waking up for school. Yet as the evening goes on he gets more and more awake! So by bedtime he is not the least little bit sleepy...:B then morning comes...and its grumbling and groaning and "I'm tired"...hiding under the covers...:rolleyes:

Anyway I have been doing a little research on the net and it appears this is normal..which I don't want to hear! Well not that I want to hear this is abnormal..lol...but I mean, I don't really want to go through this for four, five or more years. :B

Here is part of what one article says on research done on this..sleep problems in teenagers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/carskadon.html
It's interesting. When we talk about how sleep is controlled by the brain, we really are talking about two systems. One is the system that fills the tank at night, and the other is the biological clock system. It sets up a sort of cycle of when it's easy to fall asleep and when it's hard to fall asleep. Those times when it's hard to fall asleep we call "forbidden zones" for sleep.

We see in many adolescents that this forbidden zone is in the evening hours. So they actually feel great at night and, for many of them, that makes it harder for them to even consider trying to go to bed earlier. So they'll say goodnight to Mom and Dad and they'll go into their rooms and read or play video games or talk on the phone. And they're perfectly content and happy doing that, because they're also at a phase where it's easy for them to become aroused and stimulated by these activities. So it really does turn into a Catch--22. When people just say, "Well, all they have to do is go to bed earlier," well, they really can't go to sleep earlier necessarily.

So anyway having him to go bed sooner isn't going to work it appears..:( ..I guess this is normal for a teenager..but I am wondering if anyone on here has found something that works..helps their teenager be sleepy when they need to be so they can get to sleep at a decent time. Its frustrating to pick him up after school and he is complaining he is tried but as the evening goes on, he becomes more and more awake! then comes morning and he doesn't want to get up cause he is so tired. :help:

This morning I complained again how frustrating this was trying to get him to wake up and he said, well its not exactly fun for me either..its not like I can help it. :cool:

God bless
Let him stay up as late as he wants to. Make him get up when he is supposed to with no arguement. Tell him that he is to get up at time x. Tell him that you will come to awaken him at that time, and he will be expected to get up at that time or there will be major consequences for him not getting up at that time. I wanted to lay in bet until 11am when I was a teenager also. Dad said get up at 6 through the week and 7:30 on the weekends. I knew I better do it or else.

Hello :) my daughter went through the same thing! In the health food section, I found some homopathic chewables that helped her to relax and fall asleep. It's all natural, and my husband and I take them too! I can't remember the name off the top of my head but there are several brands out there, anything with melatonin...and again, it's all natural. There are also teas that help relax and sleep, also located in the health food section of most grocery stores. Good luck :)

We already tried melatonin..doesn't help. Thanks anyway.

Reynolds I don't think you read the article. Everything I am reading on this in regards to teenagers is this is due to the changes their bodies and hormones are going through. They truly cannot help it if they are more awake in the evening and wanting to sleep more in the morning. They are constantly sleep deprived because of this. They can't control it. I am not looking to have a big war with my son..I am looking to help him. Its not like he wants to be wide awake at bedtime..he wants to be able to sleep so he won't be so miserable in the mornings.

Maybe this article is clearer:

Adolescent Sleeping Patterns (http://life.familyeducation.com/teen/sleep/42904.html)

Adults and teenagers have very different wake-sleep cycles, and once you understand these differences you can use them to enhance your relationship with your teenager. Taking this approach to heart means checking your world (and sleep) at the door to cross over temporarily into your teenager's world of time and biological rhythms. Midnight and beyond is the time of deep conversation for most adolescents, even though for most of their parents it is the occasion of much deserved REM sleep.

The average teenager needs just over nine hours sleep every night, even though the average teenager gets just over six hours. Research shows that adolescents have a different circadian rhythm (sleep-wake cycle) than adults. This biological difference leaves them feeling awake later into the evening and, as a result, unable to fall asleep at the earlier bedtimes of childhood. Most teenagers don't get sleepy until around 11:00 P.M., which, of course, means they are dragging in the morning when the alarm rings at 6:30 A.M. (Falling asleep at 11:00 P.M. on the button and rising at 6:30 A.M. sharp still means only seven and one-half hours sleep, or ninety minutes shy of what the average teenager requires.) Research conducted at the University of Minnesota indicated that over half the teenagers studied reported feeling most awake after 3:00 P.M. and that 20 percent claimed they fell asleep in school; this comes as no surprise given what time of night they fall asleep and what time in the morning they wake up.

The adult brain, on the other hand, releases the sleep-inducing chemical melatonin at around 7:00 P.M., and this is what makes us so drowsy just after dinner (leading some of us even to grab a catnap on the sofa under the guise of reading the newspaper). This state ensures that we're in bed at a reasonable hour—if we're listening to our bodies—so that we are rested (or at least better rested) when the alarm sounds in the morning. Unfortunately, these different realities of teenage and adult sleep patterns only exacerbate the typical teenage mantra, You just don't understand!

God bless

Let him stay up as late as he wants to. Make him get up when he is supposed to with no arguement. Tell him that he is to get up at time x. Tell him that you will come to awaken him at that time, and he will be expected to get up at that time or there will be major consequences for him not getting up at that time. I wanted to lay in bet until 11am when I was a teenager also. Dad said get up at 6 through the week and 7:30 on the weekends. I knew I better do it or else.

Quoted for truth. My parents gave me free reign over my bed time in my early teens with the proviso that I'm responsible for the consequences. So when I naturally started acting like a jerk to everyone due to being overtired, my parents made sure I was punished accordingly. Soon enough it was back to house-rules on bed times. I hated it at the time, but I learned a valuable lesson.

We already tried melatonin..doesn't help. Thanks anyway.

Reynolds I don't think you read the article. Everything I am reading on this in regards to teenagers is this is due to the changes their bodies and hormones are going through. They truly cannot help it if they are more awake in the evening and wanting to sleep more in the morning. They are constantly sleep deprived because of this. They can't control it. I am not looking to have a big war with my son..I am looking to help him. Its not like he wants to be wide awake at bedtime..he wants to be able to sleep so he won't be so miserable in the mornings.

Maybe this article is clearer:

Adolescent Sleeping Patterns (http://life.familyeducation.com/teen/sleep/42904.html)

Adults and teenagers have very different wake-sleep cycles, and once you understand these differences you can use them to enhance your relationship with your teenager. Taking this approach to heart means checking your world (and sleep) at the door to cross over temporarily into your teenager's world of time and biological rhythms. Midnight and beyond is the time of deep conversation for most adolescents, even though for most of their parents it is the occasion of much deserved REM sleep.

The average teenager needs just over nine hours sleep every night, even though the average teenager gets just over six hours. Research shows that adolescents have a different circadian rhythm (sleep-wake cycle) than adults. This biological difference leaves them feeling awake later into the evening and, as a result, unable to fall asleep at the earlier bedtimes of childhood. Most teenagers don't get sleepy until around 11:00 P.M., which, of course, means they are dragging in the morning when the alarm rings at 6:30 A.M. (Falling asleep at 11:00 P.M. on the button and rising at 6:30 A.M. sharp still means only seven and one-half hours sleep, or ninety minutes shy of what the average teenager requires.) Research conducted at the University of Minnesota indicated that over half the teenagers studied reported feeling most awake after 3:00 P.M. and that 20 percent claimed they fell asleep in school; this comes as no surprise given what time of night they fall asleep and what time in the morning they wake up.

The adult brain, on the other hand, releases the sleep-inducing chemical melatonin at around 7:00 P.M., and this is what makes us so drowsy just after dinner (leading some of us even to grab a catnap on the sofa under the guise of reading the newspaper). This state ensures that we're in bed at a reasonable hour—if we're listening to our bodies—so that we are rested (or at least better rested) when the alarm sounds in the morning. Unfortunately, these different realities of teenage and adult sleep patterns only exacerbate the typical teenage mantra, You just don't understand!

God bless
I understand what the article said. I was also a teenager. I wanted to stay up at night and sleep in the day. If you get into a pattern of waking up real early, you will eventually get sleep deprived enough to go to sleep in the evening.
From a practical standpoint. Absence of light is the brain's trigger to go to sleep. Watching TV, looking at a computer, or sitting in a bright room all tell your brain it is daytime and make our brain keep us awake.

Being a teenager stinks. What time does he go to bed?

Being a teenager stinks. What time does he go to bed?

9:15 or 9:30 if he had youth group. But like I said as the evening goes on he gets more awake..even though he was dead tired during the day. :cool: Its really weird. I thought something was really wrong with him until I read up on all this stuff about how almost all teenagers struggle with this. So any way tonight he is going to bed at nine...I have the lights down low too instead of the bright lights I like to have..lol. From what I am reading it takes time to re-adjust their internal clock. He hasn't been an early bird for years though..:rolleyes:


PS. sorry guys I see no point in having huge battles with him from being overly tired when he DOES NOT want to be like this. It seems senseless to me to tell him to stay up late then get after him when he can't function the next day. He doesn't like being tired like this and being miserable. This isn't a fight about going to bed. He really is awake at bedtime...then feels horrible all day. He wants this fixed..which is what I asking for help for. He just lays in bed sometimes for hours, unable to sleep. I know what that is like..its awful.

God bless

PS. sorry guys I see no point in having huge battles with him from being overly tired when he DOES NOT want to be like this. It seems senseless to me to tell him to stay up late then get after him when he can't function the next day. He doesn't like being tired like this and being miserable. This isn't a fight about going to bed. He really is awake at bedtime...then feels horrible all day. He wants this fixed..which is what I asking for help for. He just lays in bed sometimes for hours, unable to sleep. I know what that is like..its awful.

If that's the case then maybe an audit on diet and sleep environment.
Is his room dark? Without a TV or other source of interaction? Is he eating later in the evening? If so, what? Any caffiene in the evening or late afternoon?

My parents let me go to bed whenever I wanted, and they let me live with the consequences. Problem corrected itself, though I do legitimately have insomnia.

9:15 or 9:30 if he had youth group.

Wow, that is early. If he just lays in bed for hours before he actually sleeps, maybe he should just go to bed later.

If that's the case then maybe an audit on diet and sleep environment.
Is his room dark? Without a TV or other source of interaction? Is he eating later in the evening? If so, what? Any caffiene in the evening or late afternoon?

No..I make sure he doesn't even have sugary foods late in the evening..and certainly no caffine. His room is dark except for a night light which is blocked by a chair. Nothing has changed except him ...becoming a teenager! lol.

Oh he zonked out on the couch for a bit..I got him up and off to bed though by nine. Thank goodness he didn't 'wake up' this evening like he has been doing.


BrckBrln


Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
9:15 or 9:30 if he had youth group.
Wow, that is early. If he just lays in bed for hours before he actually sleeps, maybe he should just go to bed later.

Usually though I don't get out of his room until 9;45 half the time..that is one part of our day where its quite and no distractions so he tells me about his day. Then we do prayers. We have had this routine for years...I thought maybe I was letting him talk too long and it was waking him up..but I was actually seeing him become more alert long before that time. From these articles its part of being a teenager..:( They do this...get more woke up in the evening due to all the changes their bodies, hormones, etc, are going through. This has been and off and on problem all this school year. He also has allergies and sometimes at night if he allergy medication wears off or his allergies are too bad, they will wake him up and then he is blowing his nose forever..trying to get his allergies under control so he can go back to sleep. I put some extra bendrile on his desk if he needs it during the night and that helps sometimes. Other times though he is wide awake at three or four in the morning..not a good thing. And can't get back to sleep at all..or not for hours.

He is hopefully sleeping now so I am going to go get some sleep too. Thanks all. Pray he sleeps well all night..he really needs it.

God bless

My parents let me go to bed whenever I wanted, and they let me live with the consequences. Problem corrected itself, though I do legitimately have insomnia.

That is pretty much what I was suggesting.

My son has ADHD and I have rules about what he is allowed to do after 8 p.m. He is not allowed to play video games and computer games before bedtime. If he cannot sleep, he is allowed to lay in bed with his light on and read or draw. Nothing electronic, no tv, no game systems, etc. He isn't allowed to get up and do anything either.

I haven't done a very good job at enforcing bedtimes on the weekends, but doing so helps him keep a better sleep / wake pattern. Also, I agree that it is best to not let him sleep too late in the day. I actually count the hours my son sleeps and allow him an extra hour and then I start to get him up.

Melatonin helped my daughter, but my son refused to take it.

Exercise a few hours before bedtime helps alot of people sleep. It sounds like it wouldn't but it does. You might try that.

You might also try looking at his diet. if he has a lot of processed foods, sugar, or caffeine, you might try adjusting what he eats.

Low light is important too. Remove any distractions (ie my husband used to like to watch tv until late, but that kept the kids awake).

It can be normal for teens to be unable to go to sleep at night, but they do need sleep. Sounds like he is finally reaching that deep sleep time when it's time to wake up. that would be a reason to go to bed earlier.

Fighting about bed time always made things worse around here. Changing the rules to laying in bed and reading a book helped the most. My son generally falls asleep about an hour after he goes to bed.
Also, I have to wake him up differently than say his sister. I have to stand beside his bedside and start talking to him. If there is something going on that day that he is interested in, I will bring that up. I cannot stand and call his name, it doesn't work. I can't just knock on his door. Sometimes, I can touch him and say it's time to get up and that will work. Usually not, he will just lay back down. Just keep trying things, you'll find something.

My son has ADHD and I have rules about what he is allowed to do after 8 p.m. He is not allowed to play video games and computer games before bedtime. If he cannot sleep, he is allowed to lay in bed with his light on and read or draw. Nothing electronic, no tv, no game systems, etc. He isn't allowed to get up and do anything either.

I haven't done a very good job at enforcing bedtimes on the weekends, but doing so helps him keep a better sleep / wake pattern. Also, I agree that it is best to not let him sleep too late in the day. I actually count the hours my son sleeps and allow him an extra hour and then I start to get him up.

Melatonin helped my daughter, but my son refused to take it.

Exercise a few hours before bedtime helps alot of people sleep. It sounds like it wouldn't but it does. You might try that.

You might also try looking at his diet. if he has a lot of processed foods, sugar, or caffeine, you might try adjusting what he eats.

Low light is important too. Remove any distractions (ie my husband used to like to watch tv until late, but that kept the kids awake).

It can be normal for teens to be unable to go to sleep at night, but they do need sleep. Sounds like he is finally reaching that deep sleep time when it's time to wake up. that would be a reason to go to bed earlier.

Fighting about bed time always made things worse around here. Changing the rules to laying in bed and reading a book helped the most. My son generally falls asleep about an hour after he goes to bed.
Also, I have to wake him up differently than say his sister. I have to stand beside his bedside and start talking to him. If there is something going on that day that he is interested in, I will bring that up. I cannot stand and call his name, it doesn't work. I can't just knock on his door. Sometimes, I can touch him and say it's time to get up and that will work. Usually not, he will just lay back down. Just keep trying things, you'll find something.

He has no caffeine except in the mornings...I won't even let him have caffeine free pop because its so loaded with sugar.

He does not fight me about going to bed....which seems to be what most on here are thinking.

He is not asking to stay up late either.

He is genuinely having problems sleeping.

I don't usually watch TV after he goes to bed either so he isn't hearing it and its keeping him awake.

Anyway he while he slept longer last night, he said he woke up alot. About four different times so was still struggling to wake up this morning. I really have no idea what the problem is except what these articles are saying...this is common problem in teenagers. :cool:

God bless

I would ask people on here to PLEASE give me constructive suggestion...not set my son up to get into trouble.

I am going to start reporting post that keep telling me to do something just so I can punish him...ie, tell him to stay up late so I can punish him for being tired. :cool: I think that is just crazy.

That is like telling him to go steal something in the store so the police can arrest him..what kind of logic is that?

He is NOT fighting me on going to bed. How hard is that for you guys to understand?

he is really having problems sleeping and I asking for help on that. Not make it all worse.

You say it's normal but I never had this problem. I think what some of us are saying is to see if going to bed later helps. That's all.

You say it's normal but I never had this problem. I think what some of us are saying is to see if going to bed later helps. That's all.

No they are saying to have him go to bed when he wants so I can punish him the next day when he is grumpy from being tired.

He doesn't want to stay up later...he wants to sleep...

Now that would be a solution IF he was fighting me about going to bed. But that isn't the problem.

Teen sleep: Why is your teen so tired? (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teens-health/CC00019)

Teens are notorious for staying up late at night and being hard to awaken in the morning. Your teen is probably no exception, but it's not necessarily because he or she is lazy or contrary. This behavior pattern actually has a physical cause — and there are ways to help mesh your teen's sleep schedule with that of the rest of the world.

A teen's internal clock

Everyone has an internal clock that influences body temperature, sleep cycles, appetite and hormonal changes. The biological and psychological processes that follow the cycle of this 24-hour internal clock are called circadian rhythms. Before adolescence, these circadian rhythms direct most children to naturally fall asleep around 8 or 9 p.m. But puberty changes a teen's internal clock, delaying the time he or she starts feeling sleepy — often until 11 p.m. or later. Staying up late to study or socialize can disrupt a teen's internal clock even more.
Too little sleep

Most teens need about nine hours of sleep a night — and sometimes more — to maintain optimal daytime alertness. But few teens actually get that much sleep regularly, thanks to part-time jobs, homework, extracurricular activities, social demands and early-morning classes. More than 90 percent of teens in a recent study reported sleeping less than the recommended nine hours a night. In the same study, 10 percent of teens reported sleeping less than six hours a night.

Big deal? Yes. Irritability aside, sleep deprivation can have serious consequences. Daytime sleepiness makes it difficult to concentrate and learn, or even stay awake in class. Too little sleep may contribute to mood swings and behavioral problems. And sleepy teens who get behind the wheel may cause serious — even deadly — accidents. read the rest at the link.

No they are saying to have him go to bed when he wants so I can punish him the next day when he is grumpy from being tired.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that.

He doesn't want to stay up later...he wants to sleep...

Now that would be a solution IF he was fighting me about going to bed. But that isn't the problem.

But maybe staying up later would actually help him get to sleep faster. 9 is way early for a teenager, in my opinion.

No they are saying to have him go to bed when he wants so I can punish him the next day when he is grumpy from being tired.

He doesn't want to stay up later...he wants to sleep...

Now that would be a solution IF he was fighting me about going to bed. But that isn't the problem.Look at it this way, if he was an adult with a swing shift job, his sleep pattern would be perfect. Right? What if he was working graveyard? Again, his sleep pattern would be almost perfect. But since he is going to school, his sleep pattern is not suited to day time activities.

Now, how can we use this information to help us? Well, we know that certain occupations require rotating work shifts. That is, some people work day-shift for a week, followed by a week on night shift, followed by a week on graveyard. These folks have had to cope with shifting sleep patterns in order to survive. I would search the internet for ideas concerning the coping skills involved with shifting work schedules. How do people adapt sleep patterns in order to deal with shifting work schedules?

One such strategy I have heard about involves a 25 hour day. That is, each day of the week a person must go to sleep an hour later each night and wake up 8 hours later. So, for instance, today you go to bed at 9:00pm and awake at 5:00am. The next day you go to bed at 10:00pm and awake at 6:00am. The third day you go to bed at 11:00pm and awake at 7:00am. The fourth day you go to bed at 12:00pm and awake at 8:00am. Eventually as you work around the clock, you end up where you need to be in order to work your shift.

So then, you might try this with your son. Spring break is probably over. But when your son has a few days away from school, perhaps during the summer, you can start him off.

Okay, now for another trick I learned. When I got my license to drive, I found that I loved to take long car trips. But remaining awake was always a challenge. So, to extend my trips I would invite a friend along to drive. When I got sleepy he would take over, and when he got sleepy I would take over. Anyone who has tried this knows that eventually, neither one of us would be awake enough to drive. I found out later that the body needs a certain amount of REM sleep. (You can look this up on the internet too I imagine.) Anyway, I found out that studies had been done as to how drivers could get the necessary REM sleep in order to be wide awake while driving.

The problem, as I understood it, was the scheme we used. I would say to my driving partner, "Okay, you take a nap while I drive, and when I get sleepy I'll wake you." This didn't work out as well as I had hoped, and I found out why. Each of us needs a certain amount of REM sleep in order to feel wide awake after we wake up. And our bodies can get that REM sleep anytime during the night. But if you wake someone up before they get the REM sleep, they will remain groggy for the rest of the day. However, if a person arranges a wake-up time in advance, the body will make sure it gets REM sleep in that time period. For instance, if I say to my driving partner, "I will drive until 2:00pm. At that time I will wake you up." My driving partner will get his REM sleep some time before 2:00pm.

This actually works. Somehow our bodies can judge the duration of time, even while we are asleep. The my driving partner was able to get his REM sleep before 2:00pm, even though he was asleep and had no conscience awareness of what time it was.

Your son needs a full 8-9 hours in order for his body to repair itself. However, perhaps your son's body is telling him that he doesn't need that much sleep right now. Maybe he can use less sleep at the moment. Nevertheless, we all need our REM sleep in order to have a clear head. I had a friend who only needed 3 or 4 hours of sleep a night. Twice a month he would crash for 24 hours, which is weird I know. But some how in those 3 or 4 hours, he was able to get his REM sleep. His body made sure he got that REM sleep.

Teen sleep: Why is your teen so tired? (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teens-health/CC00019)

Teens are notorious for staying up late at night and being hard to awaken in the morning. Your teen is probably no exception, but it's not necessarily because he or she is lazy or contrary. This behavior pattern actually has a physical cause — and there are ways to help mesh your teen's sleep schedule with that of the rest of the world.

A teen's internal clock

Everyone has an internal clock that influences body temperature, sleep cycles, appetite and hormonal changes. The biological and psychological processes that follow the cycle of this 24-hour internal clock are called circadian rhythms. Before adolescence, these circadian rhythms direct most children to naturally fall asleep around 8 or 9 p.m. But puberty changes a teen's internal clock, delaying the time he or she starts feeling sleepy — often until 11 p.m. or later. Staying up late to study or socialize can disrupt a teen's internal clock even more.
Too little sleep

Most teens need about nine hours of sleep a night — and sometimes more — to maintain optimal daytime alertness. But few teens actually get that much sleep regularly, thanks to part-time jobs, homework, extracurricular activities, social demands and early-morning classes. More than 90 percent of teens in a recent study reported sleeping less than the recommended nine hours a night. In the same study, 10 percent of teens reported sleeping less than six hours a night.

Big deal? Yes. Irritability aside, sleep deprivation can have serious consequences. Daytime sleepiness makes it difficult to concentrate and learn, or even stay awake in class. Too little sleep may contribute to mood swings and behavioral problems. And sleepy teens who get behind the wheel may cause serious — even deadly — accidents. read the rest at the link.The point is, if your son gets his REM sleep, which only takes 90 minutes or so, he can be alert and ready to learn the next day. Don't concentrate on the 9-hour number. Concentrate on the REM sleep.

The point is, if your son gets his REM sleep, which only takes 90 minutes or so, he can be alert and ready to learn the next day. Don't concentrate on the 9-hour number. Concentrate on the REM sleep.

Thanks BroRog for at least coming up with some suggestions. I have no idea when he has REM sleep though..I know he has woken up around two or three or later from dreams..and told me about dreaming when his alarm went off. Sounds like from this..that REM doesn't happen all at once though..but off and on all night long:

Sleep 101 (http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/excessive-sleepiness-10/sleep-101?page=2)

What Is REM Sleep?

Usually, REM sleep occurs 90 minutes after sleep onset. The first period of REM typically lasts 10 minutes, with each recurring REM stage lengthening, and the final one may last up to an hour. Polysomnograms show brainwave patterns in REM to be similar to that recorded during wakefulness. In people without sleep disorders, heart rate and respiration speed up and become erratic during REM sleep. During this stage the eyes move rapidly in different directions.

Intense dreaming occurs during REM sleep as a result of heightened brain activity, but paralysis occurs simultaneously in the major voluntary muscle groups. REM is a mixture of encephalic (brain) states of excitement and muscular immobility. For this reason, it is sometimes called paradoxical sleep.

The percentage of REM sleep is highest during infancy and early childhood. During adolescence and young adulthood, the percentage of REM sleep declines. Infants can spend up to 50% of their sleep in the REM stage of sleep, whereas adults spend only about 20% in REM.
How Much Sleep Do You Need?

The amount of sleep a person needs depends on the individual. The need for sleep depends on various factors, one of which is age. Infants usually require about 16-18 hours of sleep per day, while teenagers need about 9 hours per day on average. Most adults need about 7-8 hours of sleep per day.

The amount of sleep a person needs also increases if he or she has been deprived of sleep. People do not seem to adapt to getting less sleep than they need.
What Are the Consequences of Too Little Sleep?

Too little sleep may cause:

* Impaired memory and thought processes.
* Depression.
* Decreased immune response.

Sleep deprivation also magnifies alcohols effects on the body, so a fatigued person who drinks will become much more impaired than someone who is well-rested. Sleep deprivation also increases pain perception on pain simulation testing. Caffeine and other stimulants can temporarily overcome the effects of severe sleep deprivation, but cannot do so for extended periods of time.

I know I always start dreaming right off the bat. I had a sleep study once and they said I went through the sleep stages backwards..starting with REM sleep first. I can be asleep ten minutes and wake up from a dream...AND be dreaming again when the alarm goes off. In fact this happened to me last night.

From what I am reading it takes time to reset his sleep cycle..so I am going to try the suggestions of everything I have read and give it a little more time then if he is still struggling to get to sleep...stay asleep I think I am going to take him to the doctor cause something is wrong.


BrckBrln


Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
He doesn't want to stay up later...he wants to sleep...

Now that would be a solution IF he was fighting me about going to bed. But that isn't the problem.
But maybe staying up later would actually help him get to sleep faster. 9 is way early for a teenager, in my opinion.

Already tried that..he just gets too tired and run down. And since on some nights he can't get to sleep until late and has a terrible time waking up, that shows he isn't getting enough sleep.

He usually doesn't even go to sleep until ten or after..like I said, even though he goes to bed at 9:15 or 9:30 he talks to me and tells me about his day. I don't even leave his room until a quarter to ten most nights. If he goes to sleep by ten he could get eight and a half hours of sleep...his alarm goes off at 6:30 but lately with all the sleep problems he isn't really waking up until seven.

Oh..and I wanted to correct something. When I said this sleep problem is normal for teenagers..I shouldn't have used the word, normal..but 'common'...its not normal. What I was trying to say is this is a very common problem in teenagers. Doesn't mean they all have this problem...but many do. All simply due to the changes in their bodies and brains.


Xel'Naga


Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
No they are saying to have him go to bed when he wants so I can punish him the next day when he is grumpy from being tired.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that.


Ok good..but Nate is suffering thenatural consequences of this..he is miserable and tired all the time...which is why I am seeking to help him...he doesn't want to be like this. Its not straightening itself out. Believe me if he could flip a switch and go to sleep and stay a sleep he would!

Anyway thanks all..like I said, I will give things a little longer to hopefully reset his sleep cycle but if it continues I am going to take him to the doctor for help.

God bless

You could try benedryl... JK, ;)!

My 15 yr old son is going through this exact problem right now. Lights are out, tv is off and yet he'll lay awake for hours. As long as he's trying to sleep I'm fine with it, but he still has to get up when he's supposed to in the AM. Getting him up is an olympic event, but we do it regardless of how tired he is. Yeah, he starts the day off tired but that's just the way it is, not so much a punishment as a fact of life.

What helps some is he'll take an hour or two nap right after school. I don't mind as long as he's up before dinner and gets his school work and cello practice done - and since he's doing well in school I'm not going to sweat it too much.

I agree that there seems to be some hormonal element to it, maybe not something all teenagers experience but he was never like this a few years ago. In fact both my kids were notorious for never sleeping past 7 am (and usually up before 6 am) from the time they were babies till their teens. My daughter (17) has had the same problem, but not as severe, and she's getting on a better schedule these days. I'm hoping it's something they'll grow out of.

You could try benedryl... JK, ;)!

My 15 yr old son is going through this exact problem right now. Lights are out, tv is off and yet he'll lay awake for hours. As long as he's trying to sleep I'm fine with it, but he still has to get up when he's supposed to in the AM. Getting him up is an olympic event, but we do it regardless of how tired he is. Yeah, he starts the day off tired but that's just the way it is, not so much a punishment as a fact of life.

What helps some is he'll take an hour or two nap right after school. I don't mind as long as he's up before dinner and gets his school work and cello practice done - and since he's doing well in school I'm not going to sweat it too much.

I agree that there seems to be some hormonal element to it, maybe not something all teenagers experience but he was never like this a few years ago. In fact both my kids were notorious for never sleeping past 7 am (and usually up before 6 am) from the time they were babies till their teens. My daughter (17) has had the same problem, but not as severe, and she's getting on a better schedule these days. I'm hoping it's something they'll grow out of.

Thank goodness finally someone understands! :pp:pp

I actually do give him bendrile for his allergies..I started thinking maybe that was the problem..that it was having the opposite effect...if my mom takes it, it keeps her awake. So I found a different type of allergy medication to give him..he continued having sleep problems. (his allergies will keep him awake or wake him up at night too)

And yes its getting so bad now its affecting his work in school because he is just too tired to focus and he has gotten sicker more this year too I think due to being so run down all the time. That is why I am trying to figure out what to do to help him get the sleep he needs.

God bless

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not mean to imply your son is fighting you to stay up, just listing what has helped in our case. It is hard as a mom, and frustrating for the teen who cannot sleep. Though it is a common teen problem, perhaps a doctor could offer some help. There are lots of reasons people don't sleep or stay to sleep all night. Some of the solutions are quite simple and others are more involved. Believe me when I say I feel your pain. Both of my sons struggle with sleep issues.

I would ask people on here to PLEASE give me constructive suggestion...not set my son up to get into trouble.

I am going to start reporting post that keep telling me to do something just so I can punish him...ie, tell him to stay up late so I can punish him for being tired. :cool: I think that is just crazy.

That is like telling him to go steal something in the store so the police can arrest him..what kind of logic is that?

He is NOT fighting me on going to bed. How hard is that for you guys to understand?

he is really having problems sleeping and I asking for help on that. Not make it all worse.

I did not tell you to make your kid stay up late so you could punish him. I told you to let him go to bed when he wants to with the understanding that he must get up at a certain time. He might be having problems going to sleep because you are making him go to bed too early. When I was a teenager, I could go to bed at 9, turn the lights off, and lay ther until 2 wide awake. I could go to bed at 11 and drop right off to sleep. My parents made me get up at a certain time, what time I went to bed was up to me. Sometimes, going to bed later actually means getting to sleep much earlier.

Here is a suggestion that nobody seems to have thought of. Make an appointment with a sleep specialist. There may be a medical problem that needs rooted out. A sleep specialist will be able to tell and if so, will know how to treat it. For example, he may have sleep apnea and be actually drifting off to sleep and not realizing it only to wake himself up. A sleep specialist will be able to tell.

Ugh. My son is 14 now and has been going through a huge and long growing spurt which I know can make him feel more tired...but I think its also just being a teenager. He is just awful so many mornings with waking up for school. Yet as the evening goes on he gets more and more awake! So by bedtime he is not the least little bit sleepy...:B then morning comes...and its grumbling and groaning and "I'm tired"...hiding under the covers...:rolleyes:

Anyway I have been doing a little research on the net and it appears this is normal..which I don't want to hear! Well not that I want to hear this is abnormal..lol...but I mean, I don't really want to go through this for four, five or more years. :B



Here is part of what one article says on research done on this..sleep problems in teenagers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/interviews/carskadon.html
It's interesting. When we talk about how sleep is controlled by the brain, we really are talking about two systems. One is the system that fills the tank at night, and the other is the biological clock system. It sets up a sort of cycle of when it's easy to fall asleep and when it's hard to fall asleep. Those times when it's hard to fall asleep we call "forbidden zones" for sleep.

We see in many adolescents that this forbidden zone is in the evening hours. So they actually feel great at night and, for many of them, that makes it harder for them to even consider trying to go to bed earlier. So they'll say goodnight to Mom and Dad and they'll go into their rooms and read or play video games or talk on the phone. And they're perfectly content and happy doing that, because they're also at a phase where it's easy for them to become aroused and stimulated by these activities. So it really does turn into a Catch--22. When people just say, "Well, all they have to do is go to bed earlier," well, they really can't go to sleep earlier necessarily.

So anyway having him to go bed sooner isn't going to work it appears..:( ..I guess this is normal for a teenager..but I am wondering if anyone on here has found something that works..helps their teenager be sleepy when they need to be so they can get to sleep at a decent time. Its frustrating to pick him up after school and he is complaining he is tried but as the evening goes on, he becomes more and more awake! then comes morning and he doesn't want to get up cause he is so tired. :help:

This morning I complained again how frustrating this was trying to get him to wake up and he said, well its not exactly fun for me either..its not like I can help it. :cool:

God bless



Having had much experience in this area, and from being a teenager a good while back, I believe he does have a responsibility in this pattern/habit that he has formed, and if you can just be consistent on the time he needs to be up, or ready, or whatever word you have for it; but yes, in a big sense, sleep is a discipline, and we all need to find ways of getting there when we need it!
There could also be something that' s bothering him, so I advise you be very open with him before imposing the discipline line, and ask him if he wants to talk about anything. He'll know if you are being 100% sincere or not, which means you having a very open mind and heart to whatever he has to say.
Blessings

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not mean to imply your son is fighting you to stay up, just listing what has helped in our case. It is hard as a mom, and frustrating for the teen who cannot sleep. Though it is a common teen problem, perhaps a doctor could offer some help. There are lots of reasons people don't sleep or stay to sleep all night. Some of the solutions are quite simple and others are more involved. Believe me when I say I feel your pain. Both of my sons struggle with sleep issues.

I knew what you meant and really appreciate your understanding and speaking from real experience here too. Nate does have ADHD too and I know that can keep him from settling down like he needs too. When he was little for years his sleep was terrible...some nights very little sleep which resulted in horrible behavior but this wasn't something he could control. ADHD medication has helped alot. His doctor has adjusted his medication several times hoping to get him some relief from this newer sleep problem but its not working. Which is why I think its more being a teenager and everything those articles talked about. But still he can't go on like this for years either ..relationships suffer, his school work...his health. :( That is why I am so concerned about this.


I did not tell you to make your kid stay up late so you could punish him. I told you to let him go to bed when he wants to with the understanding that he must get up at a certain time. He might be having problems going to sleep because you are making him go to bed too early. When I was a teenager, I could go to bed at 9, turn the lights off, and lay ther until 2 wide awake. I could go to bed at 11 and drop right off to sleep. My parents made me get up at a certain time, what time I went to bed was up to me. Sometimes, going to bed later actually means getting to sleep much earlier.

As I said before, we already tried this..he just wasn't getting enough sleep..he could function for about two days on that, then crash. Nate has always needed more sleep. On weekends or in the summer he can easily sleep 12 hours straight. Sometimes 13. He averages in the summer between 10 and 12 hours a night! I know that is alot...but if he didn't need that much sleep he wouldn't sleep that long. Most nights I don't leave his room until almost ten..if he goes to sleep then he can get eight and a half hours of sleep and can function on that...any less and he is really struggling.


Cloudwalker

Here is a suggestion that nobody seems to have thought of. Make an appointment with a sleep specialist. There may be a medical problem that needs rooted out. A sleep specialist will be able to tell and if so, will know how to treat it. For example, he may have sleep apnea and be actually drifting off to sleep and not realizing it only to wake himself up. A sleep specialist will be able to tell.

Yea..that is probably what his doctor would do if I end up taking him to his regular MD doctor about this...refer him to a sleep specialist. I have had this done before and they hook you up to so many different things, and have a guy watching you threw a little window I don't know if Nate could sleep at all under those conditions. :hmm: But we might find out!


inn
Having had much experience in this area, and from being a teenager a good while back, I believe he does have a responsibility in this pattern/habit that he has formed, and if you can just be consistent on the time he needs to be up, or ready, or whatever word you have for it; but yes, in a big sense, sleep is a discipline, and we all need to find ways of getting there when we need it!
There could also be something that' s bothering him, so I advise you be very open with him before imposing the discipline line, and ask him if he wants to talk about anything. He'll know if you are being 100% sincere or not, which means you having a very open mind and heart to whatever he has to say.
Blessings

I have no intentions of punishing him for something he has no control over. His bedtime and time to get up are the same through the week...during the weekend I am more relaxed on that, but I have talked to him about making some changes on that to see if it might help him through the week. He started out the week badly because on Saturday he was outside alot working on his tree house and it was very windy..it got his allergies stirred up and during the night he was awake for a long time due to his allergies. He took the bendrile I left for him on his desk so he could get his allergies under control and go back to sleep...but he lost alot of sleep.

Since he had a bad night though he was too tired to get up as early as he should have that Sunday morning. Just sleeping in a bit longer though was enough to mess him up that night and not get to sleep until late. It doesn't take much to mess up his sleep cycle...but I can't control the wind or spring time! So his allergies are much worse right now. We have alot of trees in town that bloom flowers on them before they leaf out..plus flowers coming up...just tons of pollen in the air right now. Its got both our allergies going.

But no one can force themselves to sleep so I am not sure why you think this is a discipline we can do. Believe me if we could force ourselves to sleep when needed too me and my mom would sleep much better at night too...lol. So would the millions who struggle with sleep problems in this country. I agree going to bed at the same time..getting up at the same time can help...which he does do....but apparently in his case there is more going on.

God bless

When I had mine done they did hook me up to machines but they watched through a hidden camera. It was more like going to sleep in a hotel room. The bed was comfortable and I had no trouble getting to sleep. In your sons case they may do things a bit different because his trouble is getting to sleep.

Moonglow, is Nate getting enough physical exercise? You may have talked about this and I've just missed it.

When I had mine done they did hook me up to machines but they watched through a hidden camera. It was more like going to sleep in a hotel room. The bed was comfortable and I had no trouble getting to sleep. In your sons case they may do things a bit different because his trouble is getting to sleep.

I had mine done many years ago right before I got pregnant with him...and now they have a seperate place to do these studies so hopefully its set up much better. Then the guy wakes me up at five in the morning to go home! :eek: I was lucky I could drive home I was so sleepy...:rolleyes:

The doctor said I sleep backwards..I go through my sleep cycle backwards from most people and was going to RX me something but I was pregnant then and couldn't take anything. I think I dream all night long too...:rolleyes: That is when I am actually asleep...:rolleyes:


Vhayes

Moonglow, is Nate getting enough physical exercise? You may have talked about this and I've just missed it.


This semester he isn't taking gym...they only have it half a year..so exercising is and off and on again thing. Now I know last year when he was in dodge ball if some of the games were too late he had a horrible time settling down to sleep. He needs the exercise much earlier in the day. Same thing if he is out playing...I have him come in at least 40 minutes before bedtime just to get settled down some.

Oh wait..I forgot. He just started a new class..well its not really a class they get graded on..hard to explain. But they weight lift and run on a tread mill in there. So currently he is getting daily exercise through that.

God bless

Just a quick update..saw the lady that does his meds and she made another adjustment again. Nate has gained about eight pds and grew some more..he is 5'7 now..125pds..still pretty thin, but with the growth the meds can't keep up. He has grown alot this school year. So we are going to try this first to see if it helps him sleep better at night.

God bless

What you need to do is set a standard so that you can punish him... :lol:

Me thinks Vhayes may be onto something. How much exercise does he get??? I am a chronic insomniac (I sleep only 3-4 hours a night if I am lucky), but after wearing all of my fire gear and battling a blaze for 5-6 hours, I NEVER have a problem sleeping. EVEN if it is mid afternoon!!! :D

NOT that I am suggesting you throw your son into a fire or anything... :rofl:

He's probably suffering from "i-don't-wanna-go-to-school-itis." :D

He may be avoiding bedtime (consciously or unconsciously) at night because he knows he has to get up in the morning and go to school, which may be exactly where he's not interested in being.

I have a 17-year-old who does the exact same thing.

Too bad.

Stick to your guns, Jules, is all I'm gonna say.

Tell him that regardless of when he falls asleep, getting up and going to school the next morning isn't optional. So how much sleep he ends up getting is on him. Set his bedtime at a specific hour, and stick to it. You can make him go to bed but you can't make him go to sleep.

Also, what kept me awake lots of nights those days of high school was anxiety about school, so some of that may certainly be going on with him, especially if he's in public high school. High schools are pretty much zoos these days.

Maybe have a bedtime ritual with him that calms him down. Like discuss the day gone by, discuss the day ahead, maybe pray with him, do some Scripture reading, just whatever to get his brain unscrambled and his thoughts sorted out and his mind calmed down. Have him turn the TV off a couple hours before bedtime, do some stretching, get a shower, brush his teeth, go read a book or whatever, and settle down. Bedtime rituals are pretty important, even in our adult lives, I think. As we get older, especially if we're not trained via the military, it takes us longer to get sleeping than when we're kids (who can sleep anywhere at the drop of a hat, pretty much). And I do think a lot of adults have trouble with a sleeping schedule because they weren't introduced to one as kids and young adults that gets modified as they grow older.

He's probably suffering from "i-don't-wanna-go-to-school-itis." :D

He may be avoiding bedtime (consciously or unconsciously) at night because he knows he has to get up in the morning and go to school, which may be exactly where he's not interested in being.

I have a 17-year-old who does the exact same thing.

Too bad.

Stick to your guns, Jules, is all I'm gonna say.

Tell him that regardless of when he falls asleep, getting up and going to school the next morning isn't optional. So how much sleep he ends up getting is on him. Set his bedtime at a specific hour, and stick to it. You can make him go to bed but you can't make him go to sleep.

Also, what kept me awake lots of nights those days of high school was anxiety about school, so some of that may certainly be going on with him, especially if he's in public high school. High schools are pretty much zoos these days.

Maybe have a bedtime ritual with him that calms him down. Like discuss the day gone by, discuss the day ahead, maybe pray with him, do some Scripture reading, just whatever to get his brain unscrambled and his thoughts sorted out and his mind calmed down. Have him turn the TV off a couple hours before bedtime, do some stretching, get a shower, brush his teeth, go read a book or whatever, and settle down. Bedtime rituals are pretty important, even in our adult lives, I think. As we get older, especially if we're not trained via the military, it takes us longer to get sleeping than when we're kids (who can sleep anywhere at the drop of a hat, pretty much). And I do think a lot of adults have trouble with a sleeping schedule because they weren't introduced to one as kids and young adults that gets modified as they grow older.

Thanks! We do have a bedtime ritual as I explained. I give him the chance to talk about his day, any concerns..what is going on the next day. It seems the more he talks though the more wound up he gets! But most of the time inspite of that he was able to go to sleep pretty quickly. He hasn't been complaining about school..nothing said about not wanting to go but I know last week was stressful for him because they were doing math state assessments. Though he didn't say one word about being stressed about it..not until this past weekend anyway. Now this week its science assessments ..he is much better in science then he is in math but he did say he was worried about remembering all the information about cells for the test. (oh and he is in middle school..but they put alot of pressure on the kids for these state assessment tests)

I have always stuck to my guns on making him go to school..probably some would even think I was a little mean actually because in the past for years he had horrible nightmares that would wake him up several nights in a row and many times he never went back to sleep...but I would send him to school anyway. I had too though. If I had kept him home every time he had a bad dream and couldn't sleep he would have missed way, way too much school and the school would be turning me in. Plus Nate is so hyper that his own hyperness would kept him going through the day though I would be dead tired from losing sleep from him waking me up scared. I always amazed me how he could go on such little sleep! But he does have his breaking point too and if things went on this way too long he literally could not be woken up. So he has missed some days due to sheer exhaustion. And I am sure on those days his teachers would not have wanted him in school anyway...:lol: When he is that tired I can't wake him up at all..he wouldn't have learned a thing that day.

Anyway like I said the lady that does his meds did increase his buspar which is for anxiety. Nathan does have an anxiety disorder and the meds have to be adjusted as he grows or his body isn't getting enough to help. So we will see how that goes. Now he was a little difficult to wake up his morning but not nearly as bad as he has been and he said he slept fine. So I pray this tend continues!

God bless

I heard you say he's ADHD is he perchance on meds for it?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teens-health/CC00019/NSECTIONGROUP=2

This site had some suggestions. Good luck Moonglow.

Parenting a teen is so difficult sometimes. Don't mistake "discipline" for punishment. Sometimes a disciplined lifestyle is the best gift you can give your child. He is fortunate to have a Mom who is observant and cares about every aspect of his development. D in Georgia

I heard you say he's ADHD is he perchance on meds for it?

He is on medication for it..he also has an anxiety disorder..we tried increasing that but it was making him feel sick to his stomach and getting super sleepy during the day so I had to stop it. Right now I don't know what to do. Waiting for a call back from the nurse on this.


D in Georgia

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tee...SECTIONGROUP=2

This site had some suggestions. Good luck Moonglow.

Parenting a teen is so difficult sometimes. Don't mistake "discipline" for punishment. Sometimes a disciplined lifestyle is the best gift you can give your child. He is fortunate to have a Mom who is observant and cares about every aspect of his development. D in Georgia

Well living with a crabby overly tired teen does get my attention...:lol::lol::rolleyes:
Guess what? I read that site already...I think I read every thing out there on the net on this subject...:rolleyes: Thanks for caring enough to post!

God bless

Try researching his meds and see if disruption of sleep patterns is a side affect. Also make sure he does a strenuous exercise about 2 hours before bed.

While I'm no Doctor ;) My son is 12 going to be 13 and while he sleeps ok now, he plays his Xbox 360 alot, did I say alot! And seem tired even when after sleeping. So you may cut down on this if it be an case. If not it maybe his allergies. My boy is fighting with his allergies, and this may come into play when trying to sleep.

While I'm no Doctor ;) My son is 12 going to be 13 and while he sleeps ok now, he plays his Xbox 360 alot, did I say alot! And seem tired even when after sleeping. So you may cut down on this if it be an case. If not it maybe his allergies. My boy is fighting with his allergies, and this may come into play when trying to sleep.

Yea we are both struggling with allergies bad right now...and sometimes that is the problem...other times it not....:hmm:

Thanks!