My husband's family are SDA

Seventh-day Adventists Believe
-In a personal God.
-In Jesus Christ, as our Savior.
-In the Holy Spirit, the divine Comforter.
-In the regeneration and the new birth, by accepting the gospel.
-That the Bible is the inspired word of God.
-That righteousness comes by faith not by works.
-That salvation comes as a gift of God and is not received through any merit of the sinner.
-In the gifts of the spirit.
-That the Second Coming of Christ is very near and that it will be literal, personal and visible to all.
-That man by nature is mortal.
-That immortality and eternal life are gifts of God and are received only through Christ.
-That the dead are in an unconscious state.
-That there will be a resurrection of the dead.
-That the wicked will not burn eternally, but will be burned up.
-That the law of the ten commandments represents God's standard of righteousness
-That the seventh day is the Sabbath held on Saturday in accordance to scripture and should be kept holy.
-In support of the gospel through tithes and offerings. In baptism by immersion and the ordinances of the Lord's Supper.
-In discarding unhealthful practices, such as the use of drugs of all kinds
-That the followers of Jesus should manifest true Christian modesty in dress and deportment, and should avoid questionable amusements.

I have bolded all the mainstream differences his family believes. Can you show me how scripture proves all the bolded things are false?

In order:

1. "God alone has immortality" [1 Timothy 6.16]; hence, man is mortal by nature. I don't understand the issue on this one. The word "immorality" here comes from the Greek word "deathlessness". It literally says that "God alone is deathless". This means that man is not, by nature, "deathless". As Scripture explicitly says, "deathlessness" is rewarded only to the righteous followers of God who have received the gospel of Jesus Christ [1 Corinthians 15.53-43; 2 Timothy 1.10].

2. "The dead know nothing" [Ecclesiastes 9.5], "for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in the Grave" [9.10]. Are the dead unconscious? Can't say for sure. Are they inactive? Absolutely. On the other hand, the majority of passages that could ever be used in favor of "soul sleep" are all from the Old Testament, and do not account for what the New Testament has to say, regarding the present state of the dead (well, the righteous dead, at least). Arguably, the New Testament indicates that the righteous dead are reigning alongside Jesus Christ in heaven; whether this is literal (i.e. the souls of the dead are actually in heaven, actively participating in Christ's present reign) or figurative (i.e. they reign alongside Christ via the faith they had in Christ reigning in their favor) is difficult to determine.

3. I am essentially in agreement with them; i.e. I believe that the wicked will be tormented to an extent that God deems worthy of punishment, culminating in destruction of "both soul and body". [Matthew 10.28] But I can't elaborate on the public forum, so I'll leave it at that.

4. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" [Exodus 20.8]; Scripture explicitly says that the Sabbath day, which is the "seventh day" [20.9-10], is to be kept holy. Acts shows several times that the Apostles kept the Sabbath day. [Acts 13.14; 15.21; 16.13; 17.2; 18.4] The only issue with the Sabbath day was whether or not Gentiles were required to keep it [Colossians 2.16], which it was deemed that it was not necessary. [Acts 15.28-29] Nothing in Scripture explicitly says that the Sabbath day had become not-holy, and there is Scripture that explicitly says it was to be kept holy. If the denomination wants to keep the Sabbath day, and the people willingly agree to do so, why do you care whether or not the keep the Sabbath day?

1. They don't believe our SOULS are immortal unless we are saved. THerefore the unsaved will no longer exsist at death.
2. I disagree with soul sleep and believe that we are aware in Heaven when we die.
3. What about the eternal lake of fire?
4. They preach that unless you go to church on SATURDAY you will recieve the mark of the beast on judgement day. They call themselves the sabbath-keepers because they are the only Christian church that goes on saturday and not sunday and believe all sunday goers are damned to not exist at death.

1. As opposed to... our bodies? Scripture says that "God alone has immortality". Is this referring to God having an immortal body? No, because God does not have a body. Hence, when Scripture says that "God alone has immortality", it must necessarily be referring to him as a spiritual being. To put this qualification on the statement: "God alone, as a spiritual being, has immortality". Hence, the application of this to man must be: "Man, as a spiritual being, does not contain immortality".

2. Okay. I'm merely pointing out that there is Scripture that directly says that the dead are unaware and inactive. How this applies beyond the time of Jesus Christ isn't made exactly clear, and to be frank... what's it matter? To ask the question clearly: How is belief in "soul sleep" a detrimental belief? Scripture simply isn't crystal clear on the issue, and since it has absolutely zero effect on one's salvation (I'm looking at you, Forum Rules)... why is it treated as "heresy"? Is it because it wasn't a belief held by Christians throughout history? If that's the case, we should reject a number of teachings, including Dispensationalism, Calvinism, Historicism, etc.

3. As I said before: "I can't elaborate on the public forum, so I'll leave it at that." Unless a Moderator, or an Admin, jumps in and says, "Oh, markedward, we'll let you elaborate on that", please do not ask anymore questions on the topic, as I cannot answer them.

4. Well, now that's more specific. What you said before was not the same thing as what you said this time. The first thing you said (the Sabbath day is to be kept holy) is not the same thing as this second thing you said (Sunday church-goers are outright condemned). That I disagree with. Hence what I said in my previous post: The Apostles deemed that keeping the Sabbath was not necessary for a [Gentile] Christian to do, and it was not necessary for salvation.

Seventh Day Adventist
My husband's family are SDA

Seventh-day Adventists Believe
-In a personal God.
-In Jesus Christ, as our Savior.
-In the Holy Spirit, the divine Comforter.
-In the regeneration and the new birth, by accepting the gospel.
-That the Bible is the inspired word of God.
-That righteousness comes by faith not by works.
-That salvation comes as a gift of God and is not received through any merit of the sinner.
-In the gifts of the spirit.
-That the Second Coming of Christ is very near and that it will be literal, personal and visible to all.
-That man by nature is mortal.
-That immortality and eternal life are gifts of God and are received only through Christ.
-That the dead are in an unconscious state.
-That there will be a resurrection of the dead.
-That the wicked will not burn eternally, but will be burned up.
-That the law of the ten commandments represents God's standard of righteousness
-That the seventh day is the Sabbath held on Saturday in accordance to scripture and should be kept holy.
-In support of the gospel through tithes and offerings. In baptism by immersion and the ordinances of the Lord's Supper.
-In discarding unhealthful practices, such as the use of drugs of all kinds
-That the followers of Jesus should manifest true Christian modesty in dress and deportment, and should avoid questionable amusements.

I have bolded all the mainstream differences his family believes. Can you show me how scripture proves all the bolded things are false?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Ellen_G._WhiteDo you believe that Ellen White is a prophetess or not?

Do you believe that Sabbath worship is an essential part of faith or not?

Edit: I see you are on the dreaded coffee break :) hopefully you will be back soon.

1. They don't believe our SOULS are immortal unless we are saved. THerefore the unsaved will no longer exsist at death.
2. I disagree with soul sleep and believe that we are aware in Heaven when we die.
3. What about the eternal lake of fire?
4. They preach that unless you go to church on SATURDAY you will recieve the mark of the beast on judgement day. They call themselves the sabbath-keepers because they are the only Christian church that goes on saturday and not sunday and believe all sunday goers are damned to not exist at death.

Actually this isn't true. Even the Catholics have mass on Saturday. They can have it on Fridays too. But I think most have it on Saturday as well as Sunday...yet the SDA accuse them of changing the day the Sabbath should be held. And some say in the future the Pope and Catholic church will become so powerful they can make everyone go to church on Sunday..which makes no sense at all and couldn't be done anyway. It would be impossible. For instance you can't empty a hospital out and make sick and injuried people go to church..or leave them alone while making nurses and doctors go to church. Can't make police go..or fire men....image if someone got in a car accident on the way to church..they lay in the street and just die because everyone is at church?

The Jews still have the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. I go to church services on Saturday evening and I am a Southern Baptists. More and more churches in fact are having church on Saturdays because people are no longer wanting to stay stuck in going only on Sunday mornings. So the SDA are far from being the only ones that go to church or have the Sabbath on Saturday.

By the way...do you attend this church when your husband goes? What does he think about you going to a different church then he does? And on Sundays too?

God bless

Just a reminder that this subforum's intent is to discussion World Religions, and to discuss the differences in this case, between what the SDA church teaches, and what Mainstream Protestant Christianity holds.

(link to WR Subforum intent sticky-thread (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/108705-Word-Religions-Section-Intent(Non-Protestant-members-especially)))

Don't let it turn into a platform to advance SDA teachings, because that isn't the intent of this subforum....rather, to explain why Mainstream Protestant Christianity rejects these doctrines.

If you are not SDA, but hold to some of their unique doctrines, (Annihilationism, SDA, etc...) this applies to those individually as well.

Ask questions, or share why Mainstream Christianity rejects these views as being incorrect biblically, just don't turn this into a platform to argue or advance these doctrines.

Thanks

I don't believe in their doctrines but I believe they are saved because they believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior and don't deny his divinity, resurection, or the trinity.
That being said my husband is no longer SDA. after showing Him in the Bible over the last 2 years he has very very slowly come to see how their teachings are incorrect. It's been hard on him because this stuff was drilled into him all his life. ALL, and i mean every single one, of his family is a seventh day adventist, so are all the friends he had growing up, and so is the private school he attended all his life. SO you see how frustrating it was for me. God has opened his heart though and he is like me now, non-denominational. We believe in only what the Bible teaches and not what man interprets it as and don't participate in the traditions of churches. We only follow scripture.
I think the change happened for my husband when we got married and before the wedding we talked to his favorite pastor about some of the beliefs of the SDA and when asked to line them up with scripture he gave us only 2 options. either a) scripture is mistranslated or b) ellen white corrects the mistakes of the Bible. Neither answer was satisfactory for my husband. Especially after witnessing to mormons together for so long (mormons use that same excuse only with joseph smith instead of ellen white) I think he saw how they were mislead. But it was hard on him. Imagine if everything you grew up believing and everything you were taught turned out to be a lie? We are close with God and with each other. My husband is a good Christian and like he said to me one time he's not going to keep on believing something false just because his family does. God comes before his family. Thats what he said and I'm proud of him and his unfailing love for CHrist. :)

I don't believe in their doctrines but I believe they are saved because they believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior and don't deny his divinity, resurection, or the trinity.
That being said my husband is no longer SDA. after showing Him in the Bible over the last 2 years he has very very slowly come to see how their teachings are incorrect. It's been hard on him because this stuff was drilled into him all his life. ALL, and i mean every single one, of his family is a seventh day adventist, so are all the friends he had growing up, and so is the private school he attended all his life. SO you see how frustrating it was for me. God has opened his heart though and he is like me now, non-denominational. We believe in only what the Bible teaches and not what man interprets it as and don't participate in the traditions of churches. We only follow scripture.
I think the change happened for my husband when we got married and before the wedding we talked to his favorite pastor about some of the beliefs of the SDA and when asked to line them up with scripture he gave us only 2 options. either a) scripture is mistranslated or b) ellen white corrects the mistakes of the Bible. Neither answer was satisfactory for my husband. Especially after witnessing to mormons together for so long (mormons use that same excuse only with joseph smith instead of ellen white) I think he saw how they were mislead. But it was hard on him. Imagine if everything you grew up believing and everything you were taught turned out to be a lie? We are close with God and with each other. My husband is a good Christian and like he said to me one time he's not going to keep on believing something false just because his family does. God comes before his family. Thats what he said and I'm proud of him and his unfailing love for CHrist. :)

That is great! So happy he got out of that. And yes I can image how very hard it was for him. Just be glad he wasn't a JW, his family would have disowned him and never spoken to him again..:cry:

God bless

That is great! So happy he got out of that. And yes I can image how very hard it was for him. Just be glad he wasn't a JW, his family would have disowned him and never spoken to him again..:cry:

God bless

Really??? Any church that promotes dis-communication is a church that Jesus probably wouldn't have gone to. At least I don't think he would have. I didn't know JW's did that. I had a friend when I was 16 who was a lesbian. (she was 15 and her girlfriend was 16) She was a JW and her parents told her they would disown her when she was old enough to move out unless she became straight. Yeah SDA's aren't like that. But like I said I'm glad he's out of it. He still argues sometimes about hell but then says he believes in it now. I think he likes to argue to see if I can hold my own in defense of my beliefs and of course I can. And I don't have to rely on a prophet or say that the bible is mistranslate to back up my faith. All my answers are in the book. :)

Really??? Any church that promotes dis-communication is a church that Jesus probably wouldn't have gone to. At least I don't think he would have. I didn't know JW's did that. I had a friend when I was 16 who was a lesbian. (she was 15 and her girlfriend was 16) She was a JW and her parents told her they would disown her when she was old enough to move out unless she became straight. Yeah SDA's aren't like that. But like I said I'm glad he's out of it. He still argues sometimes about hell but then says he believes in it now. I think he likes to argue to see if I can hold my own in defense of my beliefs and of course I can. And I don't have to rely on a prophet or say that the bible is mistranslate to back up my faith. All my answers are in the book. :)

Yea Amen on that (all the answers being in the bible). Yes sadly I have read many online testimonies about ex-JW that had this happen to them. And I had a friend who's parents were in it too. She got pregnant out of wedlock and had to stand in front of the whole church and confess her sins and repent..the way they did it was pretty condmening and humiliating for her too. :(

God bless

Doesn't sound very Christian at all. Wish we could help them. Ya know whenever I go to the laundry mat here in town there is always stacks of watchtower magazines. I grab all of them, rip them up and throw them in the trash. It's sad really. You know I bet it's members long for freedom. There is so much pressure on them all the time. How good would the knowledge of a close and loving relationship with Jesus help them. Probably more than we could ever know. If only they'd listen.

markedward,

re: "The Apostles deemed that keeping the Sabbath was not necessary for a [Gentile] Christian to do..."
　
I’m not aware of any scripture that says that. What do you have in mind?

I'm not MarkEdward and he may have another verse or verses in mind but this is a place to start:
Acts 21
25 - "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

Vhayes,

re: “Acts 21:25 - ‘But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.’"


I’m afraid I don’t see where your quote says that the Sabbath is not required of gentiles.

Vhayes,

re: “Acts 21:25 - ‘But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.’"


I’m afraid I don’t see where your quote says that the Sabbath is not required of gentiles.
Those were the things required of Gentile believers - it does not mention Sabbath keeping.

Also, note:
Colossians 2
16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

17 - things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

If you desire to "keep" the Sabbath, then do so. But do not force your views on others - at least that's how I read what Paul to have said.

V

Vhayes,

re: “Those were the things required of Gentile believers - it does not mention Sabbath keeping.”


It also does not mention taking the Lord’s name in vain, or anything about stealing. Are you suggesting that it is ok for gentiles to do those things?


re: “Also, note: ‘Colossians 2 :16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--17 - things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.’”


How have you been able to rule out that Paul wasn’t simply telling the Colossians that they should not let anyone - other than the body of Christ, which is the church - criticize them for HOW they were observing the things mentioned in verse 16?

Paul does NOT say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mis-translation and misinterpretation of the Greek. Paul wrote "but the body of Christ" meaning the church. That is, the church is to be doing the judging, not the outside critics who were trying to force their ascetic values onto the church.

Vhayes,

re: “Those were the things required of Gentile believers - it does not mention Sabbath keeping.”


It also does not mention taking the Lord’s name in vain, or anything about stealing. Are you suggesting that it is ok for gentiles to do those things?


re: “Also, note: ‘Colossians 2 :16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--17 - things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.’”


How have you been able to rule out that Paul wasn’t simply telling the Colossians that they should not let anyone - other than the body of Christ, which is the church - criticize them for HOW they were observing the things mentioned in verse 16?

Paul does NOT say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mis-translation and misinterpretation of the Greek. Paul wrote "but the body of Christ" meaning the church. That is, the church is to be doing the judging, not the outside critics who were trying to force their ascetic values onto the church.

I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. I am not a Greek scholar so I cannot read this verse in Greek. However, I don't think the way you have rendered the words changes the over all meaning. The church (or substance) belong to Christ. They are His.

On what are you basing this statement?

Paul does NOT say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mis-translation and misinterpretation of the Greek.
And what possible difference would it make?