At the church you attend, how long are the Worship Services?

At my church, here are two services, each scheduled for an hour, though occasionally they may run a little longer.

By worship service are referring to everything that makes up the service? Or are you just referring to the worship/singing portion of the service? Or is it just a whole service of just worship?

Directly proportional to my spiritual attitude. They go on for what seems like an eternity when I'm not engaged and they pass in what seems like a moment when my heart is receiving every word.

Time is hardly revelant when God is moving in the hearts of His people.

Services are scheduled for less than two hours as a norm but God determines the final outcome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Generally 1 hour to 1 hour 20minutes.

Anywhere between 1-2 hours.

Worship, including music, offering,message,altar call goes from 11a.m. to around 12:15. Sometimes a little longer but usually around that.

By worship service are referring to everything that makes up the service? Or are you just referring to the worship/singing portion of the service? Or is it just a whole service of just worship?

The entirety of the service, from "invocation" to "benediction". :-)

How about from "when the band starts playing until they pack it up?"

:)

How about from "when the band starts playing until they pack it up?"

:)

Amen! We have worship in the morning and then go back and worship and praise all over again in the evening! I love Sunday!

How about from "when the band starts playing until they pack it up?"

:)

Yep. That's what I'm lookin' fer.

Prayer warriors start at 9am with intercession but official service starts at 10am. Worship goes for about an hour or so. Sermon goes for another hour+. Mostly we are done sometime around 12:30p but it's been known to go longer. It's all about letting the Spirit lead rather than a time clock. I hate clocks in church.

I was preaching one time and the deacon of the church (not mine) started pointing at his watch in the back of the sanctuary. I said, "I know what time it is. How about we follow the Holy Spirit's leading instead of the lunch rush at Denny's." No one has even made an effort to remind me of the time in that church since. :lol:

I was preaching one time and the deacon of the church (not mine) started pointing at his watch in the back of the sanctuary. I said, "I know what time it is. How about we follow the Holy Spirit's leading instead of the lunch rush at Denny's." No one has even made an effort to remind me of the time in that church since. :lol:I stopped wearing a watch about 2 years ago.

When I opened my church, I preached for about nine months until I realized that my wife had put a clock up. She was picking on me about being long winded and made the comment that I never pay attention to the clock on the wall.

Clock? What clock? There is no clock. :o


Sure enough. I walked in the church and it was right where she said it was. Pointing directly at the pulpit. :lol:

Clock?

I understand you confusion, as I'm sure you realized there was a GLOCK in the church....

We have no clock in the sanctuary. Pastor wears a watch. Sometimes, he puts it on the pulpit. That doesn't do much good because he doesn't stand at the pulpit! He has no time to consult the watch as he is pacing from side to side and standing on pews or leaping from one pew to another....time? who cares about the time when the Holy Spirit is preaching?

I stopped wearing a watch about 2 years ago.

Psalm 122:1-"I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD."

I don't have a watch. I love being in church with my brothers and sisters in Christ. It is a most precious time.

As for the rest of my days during the week? Life is going by fast enough than to have me keep checking in to see how much time has already past... ;)

I know of a certain deacon who would physically go to the back of the church and stand under the clock at 5 min. 'til noon, expecting the sermon to transition to (brief non-response) altar call for 12:00 dismissal.

THAT's why there would be a Glock AND a clock in church.

Clock?

I understand you confusion, as I'm sure you realized there was a GLOCK in the church....

Of COURSE there was a Glock in the church, it was tucked in behind my pulpit. The clock though caught me completely by surprise.

I know of a certain deacon who would physically go to the back of the church and stand under the clock at 5 min. 'til noon, expecting the sermon to transition to (brief non-response) altar call for 12:00 dismissal.

THAT's why there would be a Glock AND a clock in church.

I preached in a church that had a 2 foot clock sitting in the middle isle, first row not ten feet in front of the pulpit. My first thought was "They are not gonna like me a whole lot."

The entirety of the service, from "invocation" to "benediction". :-)

This part of our service is generally 1-1.5 hours, but if we add SS, and fellowship time between and after worship service that would add another hour and fifteen minutes.

10-11:15 so about an hour and a half. He usually never goes over too much, I appreciate it.

The entirety of the service, from "invocation" to "benediction". :-)

Thanks. I voted for the second option. Between 1 hour to 90 minutes.

Sunday mornings praise and worship begins at 10:45 and last until 11:15, any announcements and offering is done during this time as well. Then preaching until after 12. Preaching lasts about an hour and we usually don't have drawn out alter calls on Sunday mornings. Now Sunday evenings is a different story. Sunday evenings worship and preaching together usually last an hour and a half. That is if there isn't an alter call, if there is then it could be three hours or more. I just realized recently that the services we've been having on Sunday evening are pretty much prayer services. Personally I don't get much out of those services because I am too distracted. I feel that God ministers to me in the quietness and stillness more than when others are around.

Actual services lately are running close to 1.5 hours. If you include all the coffee talk after the service we end up closer to 2-2.5 hours.

If you include all the coffee talk after the service we end up closer to 2-2.5 hours.

Oh, honey, if I included all the socializing before and after church...well...you'd think we were a bunch of social butterflies! ;)

Oh, honey, if I included all the socializing before and after church...well...you'd think we were a bunch of social butterflies! ;)

In our case we use a movie theater so we have to vacate rather quickly. It's a tight ship they run there.

In our case we use a movie theater so we have to vacate rather quickly. It's a tight ship they run there.

Yeah, that could make it hard to linger....

Our service generally runs right at an hour, although sometimes it is a little less or slightly longer depending on the length of the sermon. And of course it is about 15-20 minutes longer on Sundays when we have Communion.

I can't get much done under one hour. The reality is this, even sad. I only get to see the people once a week. There is no way I can get her done in 1 1/2 hours.

I can't get much done under one hour. The reality is this, even sad. I only get to see the people once a week. There is no way I can get her done in 1 1/2 hours.Shoot... an hour? I'm near done with the introduction by then! :lol:

yeah you're long winded. You're still preaching last months tithing encouragement!!! :D

Long winded? NO WAY! Just very thorough! Yeah... that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :saint:

Long enough to do what needs doing.

Annoncements
Hymn
Opening payer
Hymn
Lords Supper
Collection
Hymn
Reading
Sermon
Hymn
Closing prayer

all the best...

Long enough to do what needs doing.

Annoncements
Hymn
Opening payer
Hymn
Lords Supper
Collection
Hymn
Reading
Sermon
Hymn
Closing prayer

all the best...

Interesting comment. What is it that really "needs doing"

Long enough to do what needs doing.

Annoncements
Hymn
Opening payer
Hymn
Lords Supper
Collection
Hymn
Reading
Sermon
Hymn
Closing prayer

all the best...Kay-gee, when does God get to do what He needs to do, during this scripted schedule?

Example... if God wants to heal someone, when is the altar call and laying on of hands during this time when the Holy Spirit moves people to pray and anoint as needed?

I can't get much done under one hour. The reality is this, even sad. I only get to see the people once a week. There is no way I can get her done in 1 1/2 hours.

I know what you mean. We have 1-1.5 hours of praise and worship, then 1-1.5 hours of Word. Never less than 2 hours total; often 3 and more. :-)

Long winded? NO WAY! Just very thorough! Yeah... that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :saint:

I like thorough!

I like thorough!

I prefer the term "Spirit-lead"....the Holy Spirit doesn't wear a watch and He isn't concerned with time and nor should we be.

Since our pastor has to have back to back services due to our buildings not being big enough for everyone to attend one service at once..there has to be a set time for them to end so the next one can start. As it is some services are so full they are on the verge on breaking the fire codes for too many in the building. The pastor has even had to ask us to change the times we attend if one is getting too full...in order to follow with the law on this. The church has the main church building and another one that was originally bought as an outreach church. He has two evening services there on Saturday..and I lost count how many on Sunday morning, I think three.and two at the main church building..one of those is live streamed in too....but he is literally driving back and both between the two churches to do services on Sunday mornings.

They did have a building committee try to find something larger for us...they don't want to spend the money building something, just cost too much and the pastor hates to see money going for a building instead of going to help people. But at any rate the two places they were looking at just didn't work out. So right now we are just stuck. Since also planting so many new churches in other towns around us (we live in a rural state so tons of little towns around) our church is literally still supporting them until they get big enough to support themselves. So right now this is where we are at. There is no choice but to go by the clock..they last around an hour and 15 minutes or a little more..but not too much more for the reasons I gave. ..yet I feel his sermons are very spirit filled. :)

And truth to be known I really don't want to be in church for hours upon hours upon hours either. I feel the Holy Spirit can work whenever He chooses and it doesn't have to be just during a church service. ;)

God bless

Kay-gee, when does God get to do what He needs to do, during this scripted schedule?

Example... if God wants to heal someone, when is the altar call and laying on of hands during this time when the Holy Spirit moves people to pray and anoint as needed?

I don't know slug1. It's never come up.

all the best...

Since our pastor has to have back to back services due to our buildings not being big enough for everyone to attend one service at once..there has to be a set time for them to end so the next one can start. As it is some services are so full they are on the verge on breaking the fire codes for too many in the building. The pastor has even had to ask us to change the times we attend if one is getting too full...in order to follow with the law on this. The church has the main church building and another one that was originally bought as an outreach church. He has two evening services there on Saturday..and I lost count how many on Sunday morning, I think three.and two at the main church building..one of those is live streamed in too....but he is literally driving back and both between the two churches to do services on Sunday mornings.

They did have a building committee try to find something larger for us...they don't want to spend the money building something, just cost too much and the pastor hates to see money going for a building instead of going to help people. But at any rate the two places they were looking at just didn't work out. So right now we are just stuck. Since also planting so many new churches in other towns around us (we live in a rural state so tons of little towns around) our church is literally still supporting them until they get big enough to support themselves. So right now this is where we are at. There is no choice but to go by the clock..they last around an hour and 15 minutes or a little more..but not too much more for the reasons I gave. ..yet I feel his sermons are very spirit filled. :)

And truth to be known I really don't want to be in church for hours upon hours upon hours either. I feel the Holy Spirit can work whenever He chooses and it doesn't have to be just during a church service. ;)

God bless

I understand the pressures your church is under. Sometimes, we have to go with less-than-optimal. The church I attended in VA had multiple services. Personally, I did feel that it killed the spirit because there was no room for worship to continue past a certain point or for the pastor to preach longer or, Lord forbid, there to be an altar service of any length. Certainly, the Holy Spirit can and does minister outside the perimeters of the service time or the church building--I certainly would hope so! ;) I just prefer to have the flexibility of having worship go as long as it needs to and for the preaching to go as long as it needs to and for the altar service to go as long as it needs to.... :D

Actually, come to think of it, I think one of the biggest differences between that church and my current church is preaching style. In VA, it was more "teaching" than preaching. There was the typical 3-points-and-we're-done sermons. The senior pastor for much of my time there was a Dr. of Divinity and a very excellent teacher. I learned a lot of theology for sure but didn't see much in the way of moves of the Spirit. Here, my Pastor is more....old-school-pentacostal (he is third generation preacher in his family)...lots of sweat and pacing and ministering of the Spirit and admittedly not so much theology. I'm very happy with how my Pastor shepherds me...he does good...I've grown in the Lord much more under his care. :D

I understand the pressures your church is under. Sometimes, we have to go with less-than-optimal. The church I attended in VA had multiple services. Personally, I did feel that it killed the spirit because there was no room for worship to continue past a certain point or for the pastor to preach longer or, Lord forbid, there to be an altar service of any length. Certainly, the Holy Spirit can and does minister outside the perimeters of the service time or the church building--I certainly would hope so! ;) I just prefer to have the flexibility of having worship go as long as it needs to and for the preaching to go as long as it needs to and for the altar service to go as long as it needs to.... :D

Actually, come to think of it, I think one of the biggest differences between that church and my current church is preaching style. In VA, it was more "teaching" than preaching. There was the typical 3-points-and-we're-done sermons. The senior pastor for much of my time there was a Dr. of Divinity and a very excellent teacher. I learned a lot of theology for sure but didn't see much in the way of moves of the Spirit. Here, my Pastor is more....old-school-pentacostal...lots of sweat and pacing and ministering of the Spirit and admittedly not so much theology. I'm very happy with how my Pastor shepherds me...he does good...I've grown in the Lord much more under his care. :D

It's funny how each of us have different preferences. I would probably be more ministered to in your former church and uninterested in your current. To each their own. :)

It's funny how each of us have different preferences. I would probably be more ministered to in your former church and uninterested in your current. To each their own. :)

Indeed. :D Though, you might be surprised! ;) We broadcast online so if you want to give it a taste...see my sig-line.... peace!

I don't know slug1. It's never come up.

all the best...Thus my reason to always point something like this out and how so many churches quench the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by Frecs
I understand the pressures your church is under. Sometimes, we have to go with less-than-optimal. The church I attended in VA had multiple services. Personally, I did feel that it killed the spirit because there was no room for worship to continue past a certain point or for the pastor to preach longer or, Lord forbid, there to be an altar service of any length. Certainly, the Holy Spirit can and does minister outside the perimeters of the service time or the church building--I certainly would hope so! I just prefer to have the flexibility of having worship go as long as it needs to and for the preaching to go as long as it needs to and for the altar service to go as long as it needs to....

Actually, come to think of it, I think one of the biggest differences between that church and my current church is preaching style. In VA, it was more "teaching" than preaching. There was the typical 3-points-and-we're-done sermons. The senior pastor for much of my time there was a Dr. of Divinity and a very excellent teacher. I learned a lot of theology for sure but didn't see much in the way of moves of the Spirit. Here, my Pastor is more....old-school-pentacostal...lots of sweat and pacing and ministering of the Spirit and admittedly not so much theology. I'm very happy with how my Pastor shepherds me...he does good...I've grown in the Lord much more under his care.




It's funny how each of us have different preferences. I would probably be more ministered to in your former church and uninterested in your current. To each their own. :)

Our pastor combines the teaching and the preaching actually. He puts up a passage on the screen (or we open our bibles and its printed in the bulletins too) and goes verse by verse..even breaking it down to the original language if needed on certain words and what it means. And he uses funny stories too that tie into scripture...but he also preaches...you know the long winded thunder coming down from heaven stuff...:lol: I have learned alot from him. :) My son is growing by leaps and bounds in his faith since we started attending this church..they have a great youth group also. My son isn't bored out of his mind during church and understands what the pastor is teaching. :pp

They also have so much going on throughout the week too. He has a pastor bible study..plus many other bible studies by other people going on throughout the week. Plus they have a Celebrate recovery program that works with people that need healing from addiction..hurts from the past, whatever their needs are. A different pastor runs that. They also just started their children's program up again. For years they did AWANA but there was alot of problems with it. Its so horribly complicated for one thing its just awful. And working to have kids memorize scriptures ...without always truly understanding them. So they started something else. I am helping the preschoolers..:) This is on Wednesday evenings. They also have dollar meals for those coming in going to something (or for anyone at all actually).

And they have small groups too which they strongly encourage people to join because we are so big its hard to get that true fellowship people need. So three times a week my son and I are attending something through the church. :)

I'll post a link on your profile to one of his messages. We don't really call them sermons...just messages. You don't have to watch of course.

I think its good everyone on here is happy with their churches and their pastors...no matter where we live or what is going on. We hear so much negative about churches now..its great to see so many positive about their church. :)


God bless

Our pastor combines the teaching and the preaching actually. He puts up a passage on the screen (or we open our bibles and its printed in the bulletins too) and goes verse by verse..even breaking it down to the original language if needed on certain words and what it means. And he uses funny stories too that tie into scripture...but he also preaches...you know the long winded thunder coming down from heaven stuff...:lol: I have learned alot from him. :) My son is growing by leaps and bounds in his faith since we started attending this church..they have a great youth group also. My son isn't bored out of his mind during church and understands what the pastor is teaching. :pp

They also have so much going on throughout the week too. He has a pastor bible study..plus many other bible studies by other people going on throughout the week. Plus they have a Celebrate recovery program that works with people that need healing from addiction..hurts from the past, whatever their needs are. A different pastor runs that. They also just started their children's program up again. For years they did AWANA but there was alot of problems with it. Its so horribly complicated for one thing its just awful. And working to have kids memorize scriptures ...without always truly understanding them. So they started something else. I am helping the preschoolers..:) This is on Wednesday evenings. They also have dollar meals for those coming in going to something (or for anyone at all actually).

And they have small groups too which they strongly encourage people to join because we are so big its hard to get that true fellowship people need. So three times a week my son and I are attending something through the church. :)

I'll post a link on your profile to one of his messages. We don't really call them sermons...just messages. You don't have to watch of course.

I think its good everyone on here is happy with their churches and their pastors...no matter where we live or what is going on. We hear so much negative about churches now..its great to see so many positive about their church. :)


God bless

Our denom traditionally has a preaching service in the morning and a teaching service in the evening. Our particular church still follows that pattern, but not rigidly. Like kay-gee mentioned about his particulatar services we too follow a liturgical style of service.

I understand the pressures your church is under. Sometimes, we have to go with less-than-optimal. The church I attended in VA had multiple services. Personally, I did feel that it killed the spirit because there was no room for worship to continue past a certain point or for the pastor to preach longer or, Lord forbid, there to be an altar service of any length. Certainly, the Holy Spirit can and does minister outside the perimeters of the service time or the church building--I certainly would hope so! ;) I just prefer to have the flexibility of having worship go as long as it needs to and for the preaching to go as long as it needs to and for the altar service to go as long as it needs to.... :D

Actually, come to think of it, I think one of the biggest differences between that church and my current church is preaching style. In VA, it was more "teaching" than preaching. There was the typical 3-points-and-we're-done sermons. The senior pastor for much of my time there was a Dr. of Divinity and a very excellent teacher. I learned a lot of theology for sure but didn't see much in the way of moves of the Spirit. Here, my Pastor is more....old-school-pentacostal (he is third generation preacher in his family)...lots of sweat and pacing and ministering of the Spirit and admittedly not so much theology. I'm very happy with how my Pastor shepherds me...he does good...I've grown in the Lord much more under his care. :D

It's funny how each of us have different preferences. I would probably be more ministered to in your former church and uninterested in your current. To each their own. :)
I have always found this interesting too and that is one of the reasons I am glad there are so many different denominations, that way someone can find what suits them. Honestly, Frecs, it sounds like your current church is the type that I don't take anything away from, but I am glad it is there so that you can get what you need from it!


Long enough to do what needs doing.

Annoncements
Hymn
Opening payer
Hymn
Lords Supper
Collection
Hymn
Reading
Sermon
Hymn
Closing prayer

all the best...
Interesting, your's sounds like it is not too far off from mine.


Kay-gee, when does God get to do what He needs to do, during this scripted schedule?

Example... if God wants to heal someone, when is the altar call and laying on of hands during this time when the Holy Spirit moves people to pray and anoint as needed?

Thus my reason to always point something like this out and how so many churches quench the Holy Spirit.
I don't think this necessitates the Holy Spirit being quenched out. How do you know that God doesn't do what he needs to do over the course of the service even though it doesn't follow the same style as you think it should? Christians are gathered together worshiping God and no matter what format the service takes the Holy Spirit will be there and won't be quenched. If God wants to heal someone, it will happen one way or another, he is not limited to one style of worship for this to occur during. I take it you are a proponent of a non-structured service? For me personally, a non-structured service causes much less stirring of the Holy Spirit within me. We don't all worship in the same way and we weren't meant to.

For me personally, a non-structured service causes much less stirring of the Holy Spirit within me. We don't all worship in the same way and we weren't meant to.Jesus is very specific about how we are to worship and a specific schedule and sticking to it doesn't seem to allow the Holy Spirit to move.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

A specific schedule does not allow the Holy Spirit freedom to move... many churches consider any deviation from a schedule... being "out of order". If the Holy Spirit was allowed to move the flow of the entire service, ALL that happens during the service is God's order and anyone trying to stick to a schedule is what is out of order.

Jesus is very specific about how we are to worship and a specific schedule and sticking to it doesn't seem to allow the Holy Spirit to move.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

A specific schedule does not allow the Holy Spirit freedom to move... many churches consider any deviation from a schedule... being "out of order". If the Holy Spirit was allowed to move the flow of the entire service, ALL that happens during the service is God's order and anyone trying to stick to a schedule is what is out of order.
Perhaps for you it does not allow the Holy Spirit to move, but not everyone worships in the same way. The verse you gave is nice, but nowhere does it say that a structured worship time is wrong and that a non-structured worship is the way to go. All that verse says is that we must worship in spirit and in truth, and that can (and does, I can testify to that) occur in a structured worship just as easily as a non-structured one.

Jesus is very specific about how we are to worship and a specific schedule and sticking to it doesn't seem to allow the Holy Spirit to move.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

A specific schedule does not allow the Holy Spirit freedom to move... many churches consider any deviation from a schedule... being "out of order". If the Holy Spirit was allowed to move the flow of the entire service, ALL that happens during the service is God's order and anyone trying to stick to a schedule is what is out of order.

But Paul talks about order too in the church that should be followed. Personally I am one that would rather worship in spirit alone. For that truly deep fellowship. I see it as very personal and very private. Its fine to worship as a whole body..there is a place for that too. But for me its also too distracting to focus on Him as much as I would like too..so I do that alone in private and its been a huge, huge blessing in my life. Worshiping in the spirit doesn't mean it has to be done in a group or even with music or even with others praying. In fact it doesn't mention this having to happen at all in a church setting especially since the bible also says we are individually, the temple of God.

God bless

In our church the services normally run from 1030 until noon. Sometimes they overrun a little but fundamentally they're 90 minutes. During the summertime when there are fewer people around and the childrens' groups aren't meeting they tend to be a little shorter, tending towards an hour or slightly over.

We're not having evening services at the moment because we're in a temporary home while our church is rebuilt, but they were usually on the shorter side of 90 mins.

Perhaps for you it does not allow the Holy Spirit to move, but not everyone worships in the same way. The verse you gave is nice, but nowhere does it say that a structured worship time is wrong and that a non-structured worship is the way to go. All that verse says is that we must worship in spirit and in truth, and that can (and does, I can testify to that) occur in a structured worship just as easily as a non-structured one.Well, appearanty, based on the asnwer that Kay-gee gave me concerning when will God heal during an altar call... it sure hasn't during their structured services.

No one see's that something is wrong with that?

God never moving in power during their service and based on his answer... never has moved in such a way. There are churches set by their schedule and God has never moved in power for multiple generations of people going to such churches.

I agree in what you say... to each his own.

I just perfer to allow God to move as He wills and not have Him sit down and be quiet like all those in the church not willing to deviate from the schedule and who also will not tolerate anyone else in the church to deviate from the schedule and if they do... they are out of order.

Well, appearanty, based on the asnwer that Kay-gee gave me concerning when will God heal during an altar call... it sure hasn't during their structured services.

No one see's that something is wrong with that?

God never moving in power during their service and based on his answer... never has moved in such a way. There are churches set by their schedule and God has never moved in power for multiple generations of people going to such churches.

I agree in what you say... to each his own.

I just perfer to allow God to move as He wills and not have Him sit down and be quiet like all those in the church not willing to deviate from the schedule and who also will not tolerate anyone else in the church to deviate from the schedule and if they do... they are out of order.

I'm with you, my brother. I wish that everyone could experience what we are blessed to experience during services.

The service usually goes about 2 hours (sometimes a little more) due to worship, offering & announcements (including testimonies), in depth biblical teaching and then a time of response.

Now what I would like to see happen is heaven to actually come and invade earth (even in a real limited way). Revelation 4-5 describes a worship service that doesn't end (and apparently is not boring either).

Well, appearanty, based on the asnwer that Kay-gee gave me concerning when will God heal during an altar call... it sure hasn't during their structured services.

No one see's that something is wrong with that?

God never moving in power during their service and based on his answer... never has moved in such a way. There are churches set by their schedule and God has never moved in power for multiple generations of people going to such churches.

I agree in what you say... to each his own.

I just perfer to allow God to move as He wills and not have Him sit down and be quiet like all those in the church not willing to deviate from the schedule and who also will not tolerate anyone else in the church to deviate from the schedule and if they do... they are out of order.

Sorry for my vague answer. Those who need some kind of healing usually go some place where that sort of thing is facillitated, like a hospital or clinic with doctors and nurses etc...

BTW I am a person who appreciates order. I do not like kaos. I would not enjoy the pentecostal reilgious enviroment or experience.

all the best...

Sorry for my vague answer. Those who need some kind of healing usually go some place where that sort of thing is facillitated, like a hospital or clinic with doctors and nurses etc...

BTW I am a person who appreciates order. I do not like kaos. I would not enjoy the pentecostal reilgious enviroment or experience.

all the best...

Jam 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jam 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Don't under estimate the wonders of modern medicine. I'd rather that than having elders rubbing oil on me.

all the best...

Hey... that's your call. But should the time come (hopefully never) that you lay dying and the wonders of modern medicine can't do jack... that oil might look better. Then again... maybe not.

Don't under estimate the wonders of modern medicine. I'd rather that than having elders rubbing oil on me.

all the best...

There is a place for good nutrition and lifestyle choices, there is a place for modern medicine, and - praise be to God - there is a place for the anointing and laying on of hands as God instructs us to do. Personally, I try to use each in their appropriate order of significance -- with God squarely at the center of it all.

Peace.

Don't under estimate the wonders of modern medicine. I'd rather that than having elders rubbing oil on me.

all the best...Ha! All the prayers I have done for healing, all I did was put a drop on my palm and put my hands together and moved them together in a circle so both have the oil on the surface of my palms. Then I laid my palm on the persons shoulder and prayed. Only once the Holy Spirit had me actually lay my hand on the actual injury.

It's not as messy as you think :hug:

Don't underestimate God healing a person through an obedient elder... specially when scripture is clear that such is a function of an elder in a church.

I'm with you, my brother. I wish that everyone could experience what we are blessed to experience during services.

Many of us have attended churches like you and Slug describe and aren't comfortable with them..me for instance, feels there is too much going on there doesn't have clear scriptures to back it up. I have already heard from both on you on this topic and the reasons for this...so I really don't want to rehash that again. I disagree. That is my choice just like everyone on here LUCKILY has the freedom to choose what type of church they want to attend.

But I do want to say this..it bothers me when we pick on each others churches. Its fine to say you don't care for it and list the reasons why..but why go on and on and bug a poster about it? What's the point of that? Personally I don't think its very nice. You guys don't like it when people say negative things about your church..so why do it to others?

not too mention is off topic from the OP anyway.

Maybe..just maybe God allowed for different types of churches to fit the needs of those that attend them. We aren't all the same..nor does God treat us all the same either.

Anyway I thought this thread was going well and positive for a change with so many liking their church but this picking on certain posters had just ruined it. again.

Wow, I'm very sorry my comments offended you Moonglow. I honestly wasn't intending to sound critical of anyone's preferences. Be blessed.

Wow, I'm very sorry my comments offended you Moonglow. I honestly wasn't intending to sound critical of anyone's preferences. Be blessed.

They do very much as its an ongoing thing on here. Why can't we all just be happy that each of has the freedom to choose the church we want and be happy they are happy with it?

They do very much as its an ongoing thing on here. Why can't we all just be happy that each of has the freedom to choose the church we want and be happy they are happy with it?

I pray, my sister, that you will forgive me for hurting you in this way. I am very happy that you have found a church that ministers to you!

At any rate, to get back to the topic, I have never felt that a service has to be long to be beneficial. It has more to do with your own frame of mind when you arrive. A worshipful attitude will bring more benefit to all. I "try" to put my whole soul ito it, whether it's singing, offering a public prayer, or listening to a lesson. We are only human after all, and we have finite attention spans. Sitting on a hard bench, I can grow weary of anything in a short time, even if it is totally fascinating. Quality over quantity is my motto.

all the best...

They do very much as its an ongoing thing on here. Why can't we all just be happy that each of has the freedom to choose the church we want and be happy they are happy with it?Moonglow, if God isn't allowed to move in a church, has NEVER moved in a church... do you feel that HE is happy of such a church?

One that quenches HIM with their schedule and if any deviation from that schedule by any members in that church causes the leadership to discipline anyone who allows the Holy Spirit to manifest through them and use them in any way.... do you actually feel that God is happy in such a church?

Or is it people ONLY want to be comfortable according to THEIR will and not God's will who wants us all to be FREE in Him and flow WITH the Holy Spirit, not against the Holy Spirit.

If this attitude I have offends you... be offended.

God is the one who is quenched in so many churches... imagine how He feels.

He pulled back from Israel so many times as we read in the Bible and each time they pulled their heads out of the ground and allowed HIM to operate, followed HIM and not what made them comfortable, look what happened... He once again walked with them and enabled them by His Spirit to work miracles according to His will amounst them and this GLORIFIED Him. It's the same in the Body of Christ today... if He's never worked miracles in any specific church to GLORIFY Himself... there's a reason for that and the REASON is NOT because He don't operate this way any longer as so many churches teach to justify the fact God has never moved in power in their church... it's because that church or even whole denominations are QUENCHING Him and putting their doctrine, their schedules and their religion OVER God.

So why should He even participate in such a church and even attempt to move them by His Spirit in a way that will cause members to be yelled at by their church leadership?

I'm offended that God cannot be free to FLOW in so many churches but my offense, offends others... sorry but God is much more imporatant then mine, yours, or anyone's FEELINGS.

How does He feel when He attempts to use a church member in such a church and the church SHUTS that person down because it's "out of order"... sure, their order but if they allowed God to be incontrol nothing would be out of order.

Such churches don't even realize that in maintaining their "order" that this is quenching the Holy Spirit... they don't even see this though. All they want is to control... even when members are allowed to stand or sit or be free in worship and dance freely if the Holy Spirit wants to move a person in the Spirit. Some even to the exteme that if I someone was to raise their arms in praise to God and call out to Him in the middle of worship... they'd be asked to remain quiet while the singing is going on.

Thus in that moment... the Holy Spirit is quenched.

Thus the reason God has never moved in such a church.

Everything they feel is on an emotional and physical level and not a TRUE spiritual level because the Holy Spirit is not allowed to bring such a church into a spiritual level of adoration to God.

How long is long enough? Some men can go for two hours and say nothing of eternal value. Some men go for thirty minutes and convey mountains of scriptural inspiration. The gospel can be shared in less than one minute.

In an evangelistic setting the message should be suited to a shorter time frame. Most folk today cannot maintain their concentration level for more than thirty minutes. They get antsy and daydream about what activities they have planned after church over. In a teaching/classroom setting it is likely that more time is beneficial.

The responsibility for what is accomplished in the church service is Gods and not mans. If the time has not be given to God in a sacrificial manner nothing will be accomplished.

If you go to church to get a wiggly-giggly feeling and to be entertained then it makes no eternal difference how long the service takes. If you go humbly to be in the presence of God and be edified and built up in the faith to serve the Lord even thirty minutes can be very profitable.

It is a matter of quality and not quanity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Moonglow, if God isn't allowed to move in a church, has NEVER moved in a church... do you feel that HE is happy of such a church?

One that quenches HIM with their schedule and if any deviation from that schedule by any members in that church causes the leadership to discipline anyone who allows the Holy Spirit to manifest through them and use them in any way.... do you actually feel that God is happy in such a church?

Or is it people ONLY want to be comfortable according to THEIR will and not God's will who wants us all to be FREE in Him and flow WITH the Holy Spirit, not against the Holy Spirit.

If this attitude I have offends you... be offended.

God is the one who is quenched in so many churches... imagine how He feels.

He pulled back from Israel so many times as we read in the Bible and each time they pulled their heads out of the ground and allowed HIM to operate, followed HIM and not what made them comfortable, look what happened... He once again walked with them and enabled them by His Spirit to work miracles according to His will amounst them and this GLORIFIED Him. It's the same in the Body of Christ today... if He's never worked miracles in any specific church to GLORIFY Himself... there's a reason for that and the REASON is NOT because He don't operate this way any longer as so many churches teach to justify the fact God has never moved in power in their church... it's because that church or even whole denominations are QUENCHING Him and putting their doctrine, their schedules and their religion OVER God.

So why should He even participate in such a church and even attempt to move them by His Spirit in a way that will cause members to be yelled at by their church leadership?

I'm offended that God cannot be free to FLOW in so many churches but my offense, offends others... sorry but God is much more imporatant then mine, yours, or anyone's FEELINGS.

How does He feel when He attempts to use a church member in such a church and the church SHUTS that person down because it's "out of order"... sure, their order but if they allowed God to be incontrol nothing would be out of order.

Such churches don't even realize that in maintaining their "order" that this is quenching the Holy Spirit... they don't even see this though. All they want is to control... even when members are allowed to stand or sit or be free in worship and dance freely if the Holy Spirit wants to move a person in the Spirit. Some even to the exteme that if I someone was to raise their arms in praise to God and call out to Him in the middle of worship... they'd be asked to remain quiet while the singing is going on.

Thus in that moment... the Holy Spirit is quenched.

Thus the reason God has never moved in such a church.

Everything they feel is on an emotional and physical level and not a TRUE spiritual level because the Holy Spirit is not allowed to bring such a church into a spiritual level of adoration to God.

Slug you aren't understanding what I am saying...so I will be blunt. What I see is you harassing kay-gee because her church isn't run like you think it should be AS IF she is the pastor and can change it. I see you picking and picking and picking at her about how her church is run...and frankly I don't think that is very nice at all or has any biblical basis for doing so. If you want to reach all the pastors that run churches in a way you think it wrong...go on some kind of speaking tour to reach those that do this. Don't pick on the members of these churches.

I am not offended..I am angry that you are picking on another member. I never did like bullies.

Moonglow, if God isn't allowed to move in a church, has NEVER moved in a church... do you feel that HE is happy of such a church?

One that quenches HIM with their schedule and if any deviation from that schedule by any members in that church causes the leadership to discipline anyone who allows the Holy Spirit to manifest through them and use them in any way.... do you actually feel that God is happy in such a church?

Or is it people ONLY want to be comfortable according to THEIR will and not God's will who wants us all to be FREE in Him and flow WITH the Holy Spirit, not against the Holy Spirit.

If this attitude I have offends you... be offended.

God is the one who is quenched in so many churches... imagine how He feels.

He pulled back from Israel so many times as we read in the Bible and each time they pulled their heads out of the ground and allowed HIM to operate, followed HIM and not what made them comfortable, look what happened... He once again walked with them and enabled them by His Spirit to work miracles according to His will amounst them and this GLORIFIED Him. It's the same in the Body of Christ today... if He's never worked miracles in any specific church to GLORIFY Himself... there's a reason for that and the REASON is NOT because He don't operate this way any longer as so many churches teach to justify the fact God has never moved in power in their church... it's because that church or even whole denominations are QUENCHING Him and putting their doctrine, their schedules and their religion OVER God.

So why should He even participate in such a church and even attempt to move them by His Spirit in a way that will cause members to be yelled at by their church leadership?

I'm offended that God cannot be free to FLOW in so many churches but my offense, offends others... sorry but God is much more imporatant then mine, yours, or anyone's FEELINGS.

How does He feel when He attempts to use a church member in such a church and the church SHUTS that person down because it's "out of order"... sure, their order but if they allowed God to be incontrol nothing would be out of order.

Such churches don't even realize that in maintaining their "order" that this is quenching the Holy Spirit... they don't even see this though. All they want is to control... even when members are allowed to stand or sit or be free in worship and dance freely if the Holy Spirit wants to move a person in the Spirit. Some even to the exteme that if I someone was to raise their arms in praise to God and call out to Him in the middle of worship... they'd be asked to remain quiet while the singing is going on.

Thus in that moment... the Holy Spirit is quenched.

Thus the reason God has never moved in such a church.

Everything they feel is on an emotional and physical level and not a TRUE spiritual level because the Holy Spirit is not allowed to bring such a church into a spiritual level of adoration to God.

I am fully aware based on your understanding, your preference of worship that you would not be comfortable in my church. You would likely say we have quenched the Spirit. But can you truly make that comment based on someone's description of their worship time and order? Can you see all the things that go on outside and inside of the worship time? Can you trly speak for the Spirit in this way?

I am fully aware based on your understanding, your preference of worship that you would not be comfortable in my church. You would likely say we have quenched the Spirit. But can you truly make that comment based on someone's description of their worship time and order? Can you see all the things that go on outside and inside of the worship time? Can you trly speak for the Spirit in this way?Actually, the worship portion is only the small part of the problem... the main part or real problem is the fact many churches have not had God move in them for years... so many years we can say, generations. That is the problem and when I speak about the importance of allowing the Holy Spirit to direct ALL in any said church... which means that the people can't do it their way... the offense feelings happen.

Offense isn't of God either... so when I say that God should be in charge and people get offended... ummm, you don't think that's the enemy raising those feelings?

If anyone would step out of the dictation of what and how to worship according to the church "rules" and allow the Holy Spirit to move everything in the church, then the church would move in the Spirit... which is directly against satan. That is why so many churches who don't worship in the spirit, don't allow the Holy Spirit to move, and they are offended when people like me speak out against quenching the Holy Spirit... its all because satan WANTS churches and people in the Body of Christ POWERLESS against him. satan wants them to stick to a schedule and go through the motions of that schedule because then God can't do anything because anything God would do during such a dictated service, would then be "out of order".

YES... I can speak for the Holy Spirit this way!

If this offends you... give it to God because as long as you go on being offended when a Christian says don't quench the Holy Spirit... it's not me, it's God... 1 Thess 5:19. satan takes offense whenever and wherever the Holy Spirit is allowed TOTAL freedom. If this gives you offense and you don't like what I say... pray it away while satan has his foot upon you and you find yourself defending any quenching of the Holy Spirit.

No, I don't know anything about your worship but when someone can say that no one has ever been healed during any of their services... that church has a problem and God SURE isn't the problem. He wants to glorify Himself His way and even though it may be rare, He does move in POWER. Yet we have churches that have never had God move in POWER and defend this and they also feel OFFENDED when I say, something is WRONG in their church.

Well, by their own admission that God don't work in power in their church... their is clearly a problem.

Slug you aren't understanding what I am saying...so I will be blunt. What I see is you harassing kay-gee because her church isn't run like you think it should be AS IF she is the pastor and can change it. I see you picking and picking and picking at her about how her church is run...and frankly I don't think that is very nice at all or has any biblical basis for doing so. If you want to reach all the pastors that run churches in a way you think it wrong...go on some kind of speaking tour to reach those that do this. Don't pick on the members of these churches.

I am not offended..I am angry that you are picking on another member. I never did like bullies.I'm not picking on anyone Moonglow. All I am doing is pointing out a problem and if people want to defend that problem, I'll keep speaking out against the problem. When the problem is not defended anymore, my mouth will shut.

If people want to associate that problem in their church to themselves by continued defense of the problem and my pointing that problem out, offended them... the offense isn't gonna silence me and being associated to a bully isn't either.

That is EXCACTLY what satan wants (silence), so people continue to be blind to the problem in their church.

Tell me Moonglow, what would keep a person to "a" church where God has NEVER moved and everyone in the congregation NEVER expects God to move?

It's BONDAGE Moonglow and satan has that binding tight. So tight, they are offended and hurt when someone points this problem out to them, over and over.

Actually, the worship portion is only the small part of the problem... the main part or real problem is the fact many churches have not had God move in them for years... so many years we can say, generations. That is the problem and when I speak about the importance of allowing the Holy Spirit to direct ALL in any said church... which means that the people can't do it their way... the offense feelings happen.
You keep saying this as if you have personally experienced every church in the world.

It is true Slug1. We don't set apart time in our schedule for doing the funky chicken in the aisles or for the travelling medicine show. How do YOU know that the spirit isn't at work in our hearts as we sing psalms hymns, and spiritual songs?

Have you ever seen the spirit? How do YOU know where it is and what it is doing? Jesus said...as the wind blows from the east to the west, so is it wit the Spirit.

Not only are you passing judgement on people, YOU are passing judgement on the Spirits work, all from a particular denominational bias.

When I leave service I'm mostly inspired on to love and good works. (Heb 10:24)

all the best...

You keep saying this as if you have personally experienced every church in the world.All a person has to do is experience this in one church to recognize the problem. All a person has to do is experience this in a single denomination and then the problem is compounded by all the churches who would rather hold fast to the religion of such a denomination that says that God don't allow the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be active today in the Body of Christ. I don't have to go to an actual church, all one must do is read their doctrine and see from the very top of their denom that they have already QUENCHED the Holy Spirit. They use this to explain away why none of their churches have ever had the Holy Spirit move in power in any of their congregations... and many people believe them (their leaders) and then when a person says, "but the Holy Spirit does move and God does bestow the gifts of the Holy Spirit upon us all...", such that are vessels in the Body of Christ are labled as charimatic as if that's a problem to be "used" in power by God for God's purposes as He glorifies Himself.

The problem is that those congrgations BOUND by their religion and by their denomination would also be charismatic if they ALLOWED God to move freely in their churches. But rather then be labled a bad word (charismatic), they'd rather defend that God has never done anything miraculous in this church.

ALL Christians should allow the Holy Spirit to operate not only IN them, but through them as well and ALL be called chaismatic.

It's a serious problem and you don't feel that any church that has NEVER had God move in any power within their church, something is NOT wrong?

It is true Slug1. We don't set apart time in our schedule for doing the funky chicken in the aisles or for the travelling medicine show. How do YOU know that the spirit isn't at work in our hearts as we sing psalms hymns, and spiritual songs?

Have you ever seen the spirit? How do YOU know where it is and what it is doing? Jesus said...as the wind blows from the east to the west, so is it wit the Spirit.

Not only are you passing judgement on people, YOU are passing judgement on the Spirits work, all from a particular denominational bias.

When I leave service I'm mostly inspired on to love and good works. (Heb 10:24)

all the best...You know me enough by all my testimonies that I have never done nor seen the funky chicken in the aisles, nor is the healing I have either witnessed or experienced, a traveling med show. It is a VERY quiet and humbling experience to be led in prayer by the Holy Spirit and another person be healed. God is glorified.

I have heard of what you mention about though and what limited witness I have from the past... I have stopped allowing all that to turn me away from the Holy Spirit as it did for many years. Believe me on this next statement... if you DEFENDED the kickin chicken, funky chicken, dog barkin worship/praise and those traveling med shows... I'd be speaking out VERY LOUD against all that as well.

I have seen "spirits" as God has allowed my spiritual eyes to be open and by this, discern as God allows me to.

I am not passing anything that you say... I question and speak against the LACK of allowing the Holy Spirit to work in a church within the Body of Christ (blow east to west).

Hooah... ALL should leave any service feeling as you do when the Holy Spirit works "in" you in a powerful way or edifying way.

How many can say that the Holy Spirit worked "THROUGH" them!? And if the Holy Spirit had worked THROUGH them, not be looked at in a negative way because that's NEVER happened in their church?

I'm not picking on anyone Moonglow. All I am doing is pointing out a problem and if people want to defend that problem, I'll keep speaking out against the problem. When the problem is not defended anymore, my mouth will shut.

If people want to associate that problem in their church to themselves by continued defense of the problem and my pointing that problem out, offended them... the offense isn't gonna silence me and being associated to a bully isn't either.

That is EXCACTLY what satan wants (silence), so people continue to be blind to the problem in their church.

Tell me Moonglow, what would keep a person to "a" church where God has NEVER moved and everyone in the congregation NEVER expects God to move?

It's BONDAGE Moonglow and satan has that binding tight. So tight, they are offended and hurt when someone points this problem out to them, over and over.

Yea you are picking on people and making it personal and its coming off as very arrogant on your part...If you had kept it generalized..and in fact should have started a new thread on the topic since this isn't even the topic of the OP..and then talked about it saying something like 'some churches'...not picking on certain members on here simply because she answered the OP's question... I think people would be more willingly to listen. Right now it seems to me you are trying to do the Holy Spirits work for Him as if He isn't capable of doing it Himself and correcting those churches Himself...He can and He will. If a church is truly dead they start losing members and eventually close down..or they never grow..they stay at the same numbers all the time which is usually low.

I have attended churches like kay-gee much of my life and you better believe the Spirit moves in them. I truly believe you are way out of line making these kinds of accusations when you don't know. We have had healings happen through our prayers for people in hospitals in places we couldn't go. We have had so many great things happen..but its expressed in a different way then in other churches and I see nothing at all wrong with that.

Take the plank out of your own eye in other words.

No one is defending a dead church..or bragging that the Spirit isn't working...because He is perfectly capable of working differently among different churches doesn't mean He is being quenched just because they do it differently.

Ephesians 4:29-31 (New King James Version)

29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.

No one is telling you to be silent about this topic..is when you single out certain members and harp and harp and harp on them that at least I have a problem with. Like I said..you need to be talking to those in charge about your complaint anyway.

Personally I think we need to thanking God we have churches to go to...so many Christians around the world don't...let alone a bible to read. If people are being fed and the Spirit is working through them..then just leave them alone for pity sakes. You cannot make the sweeping judgments you are making because you aren't in those churches. If God decided to impart this task on you and imparted knowledge about these churches...then ask Him how to best get this message out to those churches. Is singling out members on one little message board on this gigantic internet going to change anything? Other then to make a member feel bad...and that is helpful...:hmm:

The bible tells us to correct each other with gentleness and respect..not bowl them over because you believe you are defending the Word of God. We are all perfectly capable of reading our bibles. Pray for those you feel are in bondage..and let the Holy Spirit do His job.. but putting down people ..there is no scriptures that says that is ok...

...and let the Holy Spirit do His job.. but putting down people ..there is no scriptures that says that is ok...I have not put down anyone Moonglow. If a person defends that not only has the Holy Spirit NEVER moved in power within their church and that they NEVER expect the Holy Spirit to move in power within their church... this is a problem and I will question and speak out against. Not them, what they are defending... that is it.

If they feel put down... then they need to stop defending any quenching of the Holy Spirit and I will stop speaking against this defense concerning the quenching of the Holy Spirit.

Slug... any church that is seeing souls saved has the Holy Spirit performing the greatest miracle of all in their midsts. I am not real sure how you get that the Holy Spirit is quenched in a church for not being charismatic when I personally know of MANY churches that do not believe that the gifts are active today, but are winning the lost to Christ right and left. If people in your local body have different giftings that all work together, why then is it impossible to different churches to have different giftings within the body of Christ? I urge you to reconsider your position.

Slug... any church that is seeing souls saved has the Holy Spirit performing the greatest miracle of all in their midsts. I am not real sure how you get that the Holy Spirit is quenched in a church for not being charismatic when I personally know of MANY churches that do not believe that the gifts are active today, but are winning the lost to Christ right and left. If people in your local body have different giftings that all work together, why then is it impossible to different churches to have different giftings within the body of Christ? I urge you to reconsider your position.Amen!

The problem is with those churches that are winning people to their religion, using Christ as a lure and over time they (those won) are also bound by that religion and follow that religion and it's doctrine, rules, and schedules... over the will and freedom in Christ led by the Holy Spirit.

Not true Slug. I know tons of truly Spirit filled Christians that do not exercise in the supernatural giftings of the Spirit. I would be willing to bet that I know more non-charismatic Christians that exhibit the FRUIT of the Spirit on a regular basis than I do charismatics that do the same. A theological difference does not make one bound by any spirit. It does not make one "religious". To my knowledge, Billy Graham has never once operated in any supernatural gifting of the Holy Spirit (i.e. - tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.), so does that make him bound by one a many various spirits you claim others are bound by? The man has won countless people to Christ and has done so because he preaches Christ crucified and risen on the third day, nothing more.

Not true Slug. I know tons of truly Spirit filled Christians that do not exercise in the supernatural giftings of the Spirit. I would be willing to bet that I know more non-charismatic Christians that exhibit the FRUIT of the Spirit on a regular basis than I do charismatics that do the same. A theological difference does not make one bound by any spirit. It does not make one "religious". To my knowledge, Billy Graham has never once operated in any supernatural gifting of the Holy Spirit (i.e. - tongues, interpretation, prophecy, etc.), so does that make him bound by one a many various spirits you claim others are bound by? The man has won countless people to Christ and has done so because he preaches Christ crucified and risen on the third day, nothing more.That is all that is needed to win people to Christ, I understand all you say. I agree with you 100%!

I do...

The problem is when religion is allowed to overpower the will of God. Those churches and religions that will not ALLOW God to move in their church. Ones that if a person did exhibit the Holy Spirit moving them and they were obedient to God's will and they did as they were led in the Holy Spirit... and then they are told to be quiet and to sit down like all the others in the congregation because "they" or the church leadership, don't want to deviate from the rules, doctrines, and schedules that are set in their "church".

It's not "their" church... it's nothing but a building and God has graced them with to congregate... but let HIM run the flow of the service His way. That way, IF He does want to glorify Himself in a miraculous way, He can.

I know, the need for this is rare in a Christ filled church... but NEVER a need? Only because someone in leadership said, "God don't do that anymore, we'll serve God this way!" and everyone in that church or whole denomination has to abide by that? If they don't and they do something as God leads them and then they are shut down and asked to stop!!!

That's not a problem to you?

Slug... why do you limit God by assuming "God moving in a church" is only done by charismatic manifestations? Also, why do you presume to know the will of God and think that all churches should be charismatic? Me thinks you have a kink in your think buddy.

I would rather preach in a church that never sees charismatic manifestations but truly sees people saved, lives changed, and have a bumper crop of spiritual fruit than to preach in one that sees manifestations all the time, but with no real change. The Corinthians had PLENTY of manifestations, but were seriously lacking in fruit.

Slug... why do you limit God by assuming "God moving in a church" is only done by charismatic manifestations? Also, why do you presume to know the will of God and think that all churches should be charismatic? Me thinks you have a kink in your think buddy.

I would rather preach in a church that never sees charismatic manifestations but truly sees people saved, lives changed, and have a bumper crop of spiritual fruit than to preach in one that sees manifestations all the time, but with no real change. The Corinthians had PLENTY of manifestations, but were seriously lacking in fruit.I would also dude, I truly would as well.

But the day such a church shuts down God when and if He did move in a miraculous way because it didn't fit according to their schedule, or their doctrine, or what the leadership says is a GO or NOGO... the problem has begun.

OK... I see what you are saying (I always do it seems)... while not all churches are charismatic and don't need to be charismatic to be a church... they MUST still allow the Holy Spirit to flow freely and not shut Him down or cut Him off the moment they realize He is moving in a way never experienced before and they are about to be used to glorify God due to the miracle He's about to do through a person in the congregation.

No, God don't NEED to do this but the PROBLEM is when a church body says... He can't EVER do this in their church.

Are we ever going to figure out that God is smart enough to accomplish what He wants to accomplish in His church without regard to our doctrine? Why do we assume that God is required to work in any particular way just because that is the flavor we like? It is just as much a sin to presume that there has to be pew jumping and tongue speaking for the Holy Spirit to work as there is to presume that God cannot speak through pew jumping and tongue speaking.

We all bring our own biases to the table.

Thank God, He is not contained by our presumptions one way or the other.

Telling God that He cannot work in a miraculous or extraordinary way is no more stupid that saying that He has to work in a miraculous or extraordinary way.

Are we ever going to figure out that God is smart enough to accomplish what He wants to accomplish in His church without regard to our doctrine? Why do we assume that God is required to work in any particular way just because that is the flavor we like? It is just as much a sin to presume that there has to be pew jumping and tongue speaking for the Holy Spirit to work as there is to presume that God cannot speak through pew jumping and tongue speaking.

We all bring our own biases to the table.

Thank God, He is not contained by our presumptions one way or the other.

Telling God that He cannot work in a miraculous or extraordinary way is no more stupid that saying that He has to work in a miraculous or extraordinary way.Again... AMEN!

But when a church won't allow Him freedom to do it His way and they will only "expect/allow" Him to do it their way.... it's a problem.

Again... AMEN!

But when a church won't allow Him freedom to do it His way and they will only "expect/allow" Him to do it their way.... it's a problem.

That is true, and I said, it is true for both charismatic and non-charismatic churches.
When we presume that letting God "do it His way" means "doing it the way I expect," then we err.

That is true, and I said, it is true for both charismatic and non-charismatic churches.
When we presume that letting God "do it His way" means "doing it the way I expect," then we err.That is also so true. Which is why we all need to be fully open to His way and not the way the church or a whole denomination, dictates.

Believe me, if God never did a miracle because there is no need, not His will, whatever the reason... all is fine and dandy. The moment He's not ALLOWED to, IF He had the need... then a problem exists. When people defend this problem and justify the problem because they'd rather follow their church ways, or doctrine, or rules, or schedule... the problem is exposed and they don't see this problem right before their eyes. Thus the need to point the problem out.

Slug... why do you limit God by assuming "God moving in a church" is only done by charismatic manifestations? Also, why do you presume to know the will of God and think that all churches should be charismatic? Me thinks you have a kink in your think buddy.

I would rather preach in a church that never sees charismatic manifestations but truly sees people saved, lives changed, and have a bumper crop of spiritual fruit than to preach in one that sees manifestations all the time, but with no real change. The Corinthians had PLENTY of manifestations, but were seriously lacking in fruit.
I am most certainly in agreement with you. I can hardly believe it but I am.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Honestly Slug, what would you do and think if all of a sudden you went to church for the next two years and nothing miraculous happened, no gifts were shown, etc?

Honestly Slug, what would you do and think if all of a sudden you went to church for the next two years and nothing miraculous happened, no gifts were shown, etc?I wouldn't do or think anything... I'd be who I am in Christ still.

In the last 3-4 posts, I made this clear... such from God is not NEEDED. We just can't, NOT ALLOW God the freedom though.

I agree with that. The whole reason I jumped in this thread was the posts prior to 3-4 ago were not saying that at all. ;)

That is all that is needed to win people to Christ, I understand all you say. I agree with you 100%!

I do...

The problem is when religion is allowed to overpower the will of God. Those churches and religions that will not ALLOW God to move in their church. Ones that if a person did exhibit the Holy Spirit moving them and they were obedient to God's will and they did as they were led in the Holy Spirit... and then they are told to be quiet and to sit down like all the others in the congregation because "they" or the church leadership, don't want to deviate from the rules, doctrines, and schedules that are set in their "church".

It's not "their" church... it's nothing but a building and God has graced them with to congregate... but let HIM run the flow of the service His way. That way, IF He does want to glorify Himself in a miraculous way, He can.

I know, the need for this is rare in a Christ filled church... but NEVER a need? Only because someone in leadership said, "God don't do that anymore, we'll serve God this way!" and everyone in that church or whole denomination has to abide by that? If they don't and they do something as God leads them and then they are shut down and asked to stop!!!

That's not a problem to you?

UM and that other guy..lol..are saying what I meant but failed to communicate well.

When God moves in a church does that mean a 'person'...not Him..but a person must jump up and interrupt church? And if they are told to sit down and be quite that somehow stops the Creator of the Universe..the Heavens and the earth..who is in control of everything...from doing what He wants to do? Do us mere little specks on this planet really have that much power over Him...He who created us?

I don't think so. Plus the pastor better tell people to sit down and be quiet if other things are going on because that is how the bible tells us it should be..things need to be done in order. Look at this passage...notice how many times 'be silent' is used.

1 Corinthians 14

Order in Church Meetings

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

In other words people have to take turns and exercise some self control too. The Holy Spirit doesn't overwhelm us to the point we can't be quiet and its not stifling Him either. Lets say like Paul here says, someone has a message for the church in tongues but their is no one to interpret it...Paul says they have to be silent then.

There has to be an order to things. If everyone is speaking in tongues at once with no interpreter..everyone prophecies at once..people singing out praises to God...then its dissolved into chaos. And no one benefits. But any as UM was saying people are being saved through the teaching and preaching of Jesus only without any miracles going on (though that in itself is the greatest miracle of all) and no they aren't being saved to serve a church or a doctrine either but truly really saved in Christ. Most of us on here come from those kind of churches in fact. And God works in our lives daily too. (not proof reading so I hope this makes sense)

Anyway I am not going to post anymore right now on this topic and will read your PM's another day. Debra passed away with this morning.:cry:...a long time board member. There is a thread for her on the Christian fellowship forum if anyone wants to ofter prayers of comfort for her husband Joe, who is a member here also.

God bless

UM and that other guy..lol..are saying what I meant but failed to communicate well.

When God moves in a church does that mean a 'person'...not Him..but a person must jump up and interrupt church? And if they are told to sit down and be quite that somehow stops the Creator of the Universe..the Heavens and the earth..who is in control of everything...from doing what He wants to do? Do us mere little specks on this planet really have that much power over Him...He who created us?

I don't think so. Plus the pastor better tell people to sit down and be quiet if other things are going on because that is how the bible tells us it should be..things need to be done in order. Look at this passage...notice how many times 'be silent' is used.

1 Corinthians 14

Order in Church Meetings

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

In other words people have to take turns and exercise some self control too. The Holy Spirit doesn't overwhelm us to the point we can't be quiet and its not stifling Him either. Lets say like Paul here says, someone has a message for the church in tongues but their is no one to interpret it...Paul says they have to be silent then.

There has to be an order to things. If everyone is speaking in tongues at once with no interpreter..everyone prophecies at once..people singing out praises to God...then its dissolved into chaos. And no one benefits. But any as UM was saying people are being saved through the teaching and preaching of Jesus only without any miracles going on (though that in itself is the greatest miracle of all) and no they aren't being saved to serve a church or a doctrine either but truly really saved in Christ. Most of us on here come from those kind of churches in fact. And God works in our lives daily too. (not proof reading so I hope this makes sense)

Anyway I am not going to post anymore right now on this topic and will read your PM's another day. Debra passed away with this morning.:cry:...a long time board member. There is a thread for her on the Christian fellowship forum if anyone wants to ofter prayers of comfort for her husband Joe, who is a member here also.

God blessMoonglow... you are so close to hit the nail on the head. The scripture you posted is about the ORDER the Holy Spirit will guide the church IF God was to manifest. Everything you posted is all about "God's" order during a church service.

Now... what I am "trying" to say... any church that will not allow God to "DO THIS" in the order of His will. When a church will NOT ALLOW anyone... NOT ONE person to speak in tongues because they don't allow it and anyone who does allow God to use them... is OUT of "their" order that they have dictated through doctrine, rules, schedules and whatever.

Do you get what I am saying, now?

There is a very specific order that God will lead church and if the Holy Spirit is allowed by a congregation to flow as God wills, then EVERYTHING will be in order. A person (1-3) can speak a message in tongues and then there is an interpreter that will translate because that is GOD'S ORDER according to scripture.

However, when a church won't allow ANYONE to be used by God as a vessel and bring forth a message from God to edify... THAT IS A PROBLEM.

This is the PROBLEM that I am shining a 20 MILLION CANDLE POWER SPOT LIGHT on and many feel the heat and rebel against it. They DEFEND thier doctrine, their rules, thier ways, their "it's always been done that way here" attitude and only run the church according to their will, doctrine, rules, and schedules.

Well, not every church has that attitude and allow God to do as He wills.

If God moves in mighty edifying ways but never needs to do anything "miraculous"... fine and dandy as I told UM. It's still all according to God's will. If there is ever a time that He does decide to manifest in "power".... when He does, no one will be told to be quiet, sit down, that don't happen here because traditions, rules, doctrines, schedules, anything else is held more important then the will of God... thus, no problem.

God can manifest in such a church, even though He has never before and there won't be anyone told to stop, be quiet and sit.

Any clearer?

Moonglow... you are so close to hit the nail on the head. The scripture you posted is about the ORDER the Holy Spirit will guide the church IF God was to manifest. Everything you posted is all about "God's" order during a church service.

Now... what I am "trying" to say... any church that will not allow God to "DO THIS" in the order of His will. When a church will NOT ALLOW anyone... NOT ONE person to speak in tongues because they don't allow it and anyone who does allow God to use them... is OUT of "their" order that they have dictated through doctrine, rules, schedules and whatever.

Do you get what I am saying, now?

There is a very specific order that God will lead church and if the Holy Spirit is allowed by a congregation to flow as God wills, then EVERYTHING will be in order. A person (1-3) can speak a message in tongues and then there is an interpreter that will translate because that is GOD'S ORDER according to scripture.

However, when a church won't allow ANYONE to be used by God as a vessel and bring forth a message from God to edify... THAT IS A PROBLEM.

This is the PROBLEM that I am shining a 20 MILLION CANDLE POWER SPOT LIGHT on and many feel the heat and rebel against it. They DEFEND thier doctrine, their rules, thier ways, their "it's always been done that way here" attitude and only run the church according to their will, doctrine, rules, and schedules.

Well, not every church has that attitude and allow God to do as He wills.

If God moves in mighty edifying ways but never needs to do anything "miraculous"... fine and dandy as I told UM. It's still all according to God's will. If there is ever a time that He does decide to manifest in "power".... when He does, no one will be told to be quiet, sit down, that don't happen here because traditions, rules, doctrines, schedules, anything else is held more important then the will of God... thus, no problem.

God can manifest in such a church, even though He has never before and there won't be anyone told to stop, be quiet and sit.

Any clearer?

I know I'm not Moonglow, but I get what you are saying. I feel that you are confusing manifestations not occurring within a congregation (for whatever reason) and assuming that there is an active repression by church leadership of allowing any manifestations.

In our case we use a movie theater so we have to vacate rather quickly. It's a tight ship they run there.

One of our campuses meets in a movie theatre and they have the same time constraints.

Since our pastor has to have back to back services due to our buildings not being big enough for everyone to attend one service at once..there has to be a set time for them to end so the next one can start. As it is some services are so full they are on the verge on breaking the fire codes for too many in the building. The pastor has even had to ask us to change the times we attend if one is getting too full...in order to follow with the law on this. The church has the main church building and another one that was originally bought as an outreach church. He has two evening services there on Saturday..and I lost count how many on Sunday morning, I think three.and two at the main church building..one of those is live streamed in too....but he is literally driving back and both between the two churches to do services on Sunday mornings.

They did have a building committee try to find something larger for us...they don't want to spend the money building something, just cost too much and the pastor hates to see money going for a building instead of going to help people. But at any rate the two places they were looking at just didn't work out. So right now we are just stuck. Since also planting so many new churches in other towns around us (we live in a rural state so tons of little towns around) our church is literally still supporting them until they get big enough to support themselves. So right now this is where we are at. There is no choice but to go by the clock..they last around an hour and 15 minutes or a little more..but not too much more for the reasons I gave. ..yet I feel his sermons are very spirit filled. :)

And truth to be known I really don't want to be in church for hours upon hours upon hours either. I feel the Holy Spirit can work whenever He chooses and it doesn't have to be just during a church service. ;)

God bless

I have the same problem. But i still wouldn't go less than 2 hours with a 20 minute turn around time. This is why Sunday nights such a blessing

I know I'm not Moonglow, but I get what you are saying. I feel that you are confusing manifestations not occurring within a congregation (for whatever reason) and assuming that there is an active repression by church leadership of allowing any manifestations.When church doctrine says that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended with the death of the last Apostle... I am NOT assuming anything.

When I have asked direct questions to members of this board who go to such churches as these and I have asked them what would their leadership do with a member of their church who ended up being used by God to manifest any of the 9 gifts... the answer is clear... they ARE actively repressing any movement of the Holy Spirit in power or manifestation (however you express it).

Look around the board for any threads dealing with Tongues, or any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit... the way God is repressed is... sad.

Since our pastor has to have back to back services due to our buildings not being big enough for everyone to attend one service at once..there has to be a set time for them to end so the next one can start. As it is some services are so full they are on the verge on breaking the fire codes for too many in the building. The pastor has even had to ask us to change the times we attend if one is getting too full...in order to follow with the law on this. The church has the main church building and another one that was originally bought as an outreach church. He has two evening services there on Saturday..and I lost count how many on Sunday morning, I think three.and two at the main church building..one of those is live streamed in too....but he is literally driving back and both between the two churches to do services on Sunday mornings.Has your pastor ever considered team teaching? I used to attend a church back in the 70's in which the main pastor would teach two services on Sunday morning and two or three associate teachers would alternate teaching on Sunday night. And there were teaching opportunities for other teachers during the week. The point is, your pastor doesn't have to do it all.

When I was in college, I was the AV man, who set up a video camera in the main chapel with a TV in the basement. This way more students could attend chapel, watching the service on the monitor. Perhaps your church could set up a camera in the main church building and run a live feed to your auxiliary building.

I attended a church that recorded the teaching and kept these recordings for later play-back. This allowed, for instance, those who took care of the infants to hear the sermon later in the week. Eventually, some of our members who moved away, bought tapes and having opened up their homes, played the tapes for a small group of believers.

Sounds like you guys are doing great. Hopefully the Lord will work things out.

I have the same problem. But i still wouldn't go less than 2 hours with a 20 minute turn around time. This is why Sunday nights such a blessingReminds me of the Lyle Lovitt song, "Church". :)

About a time and a time.

It depends on a few things. People on duty (band members, ushers, pastors, etc) start earlier and finnish later. The band practices way before the service. The mornings also differ from the evenings. The average time is about 2 hours but it can and has gone on longer. Special services also change matters, as does language, since we have Afrikaans services.

I know of many people including one on this bible forum, and her husband too who worship 24/7 which is not an option in the poll on this thread.
Is 24/7 to long ? .....It is for me because I have not grown into that place yet, but I will ! Nor have I been forced by Father into that place yet. Both to my detriment.

If you understand what our Father means when He uses the term "worship" then you will understand what I and a few others have posted here about "worship"


His peace to you.

About a time and a time.

Throw in another 1/2-a-time and it'll be about time. :-)

Usually about 1.5 hours (a little less or a little more depending on the length of the homily). During Lent it's closer to 2 hours. If it's not during Lent and there's no homily (normally a weekday Liturgy won't have a homily) it's normally closer to 1 hour (and there are fewer people in attendance during the week, so there are fewer people taking communion, so that's that much less time).