PDA

View Full Version : Saved By His Life???



WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 08:18 PM
In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were Godís enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?

chad
Feb 6th 2011, 08:25 PM
Through baptism. Remember Jesus was ressurected after he died.



In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were Godís enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?

WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 08:29 PM
Through baptism. Remember Jesus was ressurected after he died.


What about his earthly life? Does that play any role in my salvation?

Slug1
Feb 6th 2011, 08:47 PM
What about his earthly life? Does that play any role in my salvation?His earthly life is an example of how to live, as Christ lived!

WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 08:54 PM
His earthly life is an example of how to live, as Christ lived!

So it's just an example of how to live, and has no salvific role in our redemption?

karenoka27
Feb 6th 2011, 09:04 PM
In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?

Jesus died for our sins and rose again having victory over death! When we trust in Christ we too have victory! We have eternal life in Him.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4-"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
John 20:31-"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name."

Slug1
Feb 6th 2011, 09:08 PM
So it's just an example of how to live, and has no salvific role in our redemption?The foundation for salvation IS through Christ. Once we believe and accept Him as our Savior we have to know how to live... He set this through example and teaching. Otherwise, we'd believe, accept Him and then say... what now? We don't have to ask, "what now"... we just have to... do.

WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 09:25 PM
I think Paul is right! We are reconciled to God through the death of his Son.
We are saved by the life of Jesus.

His death is what reconciles us to God! His life, and the way he lived, is what saves us!

Slug1
Feb 6th 2011, 09:27 PM
I think Paul is right! We are reconciled to God through the death of his Son.
We are saved by the life of Jesus.

His death is what reconciles us to God! His life, and the way he lived, is what saves us! While His earthly ministry built the foundation, His death and resurrection completed that foundation when He covered it in His blood.

WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 09:30 PM
I also think that if we actually began living the same kind of life he lived...the spiritual life...then the same power and life which was in him would come to us!

Slina
Feb 6th 2011, 09:32 PM
Christ's death is vital to our salvation since without it we would all still be dead in our sins. But as that verse is saying, his resurrection is also very important to our salvation. Paul brings up the resurrection a lot, and for good reason.

Romans 6:8 - Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:14 - And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

In resurrecting from the dead, Christ officially defeated death, which paves the way for believers to have new life in Him. Sure his death is technically what saves us, but ultimately it's kind of pointless if he hadn't risen from the dead. His resurrection defeated death and 'sealed the deal' for us so to speak. :cool:

Slug1
Feb 6th 2011, 09:37 PM
I also think that if we actually began living the same kind of life he lived...the spiritual life...then the same power and life which was in him would come to us!Hooah... but then when you begin to experience God's power manifest through you... then you have to deal with all the Christians who say that God don't manifest in power any more.

BroRog
Feb 6th 2011, 09:41 PM
In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were Godís enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?Here is something to consider as we ponder Paul's intent. In the Greek, the phrase "his life" is literally "the life of him", which places "him" in the genetive. What this means to us is that the genetive case can connote one of many different ideas depending on the context. The gentive can indicate possession, which is why the translators have rendered "the life of him" as "his life." In their opinion, Paul is talking about the life that belongs to Jesus, i.e. his very own existence. However, there are other options to consider.

For instance, Paul may have intended to indicate, not Jesus' very own existence, (his life) but the existence God intends to give those who are Jesus' followers. If this was his intent, then he would be saying that we are being saved by the continued existence that God is able to give to us. He brought about reconciliation with us by putting his son's own existence into jeopardy. And the question is, if God was willing to put the existence of his own son into jeopardy for us, what is to stop him from giving us the blessing of continued existence?

I believe the translators were thinking that Paul was making a contrast between the death of Jesus, or "his death" and the life of Jesus or "his life". But verse 8 talks about what God is doing. It is God who demonstrates his love toward us, making God the subject of the discourse. So when Paul says that we will be saved by "his life" it is certainly possible that we are being saved, not by the continued existence of Jesus (which is true, Jesus was resurrected), but by the existence that God grants to those of whom he has poured out his spirit within their hearts.

WSGAC
Feb 6th 2011, 09:41 PM
Christ's death is vital to our salvation since without it we would all still be dead in our sins. But as that verse is saying, his resurrection is also very important to our salvation. Paul brings up the resurrection a lot, and for good reason.

Romans 6:8 - Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:14 - And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

In resurrecting from the dead, Christ officially defeated death, which paves the way for believers to have new life in Him. Sure his death is technically what saves us, but ultimately it's kind of pointless if he hadn't risen from the dead. His resurrection defeated death and 'sealed the deal' for us so to speak. :cool:

I think Paul was also talking about the kind of life Jesus lived...a kind of life that cannot be extinguished, not even by death.
If Jesus is "the Way", then his life must also be "the way" we are to follow. It's in the following that the new life, the divine life, the life from above, comes!
It's the way Jesus lived that paved the way for us to eternal life. His death reconciles us to God, His life saves us. When we walk into our salvation, the new
life comes to us!

Not walking into your salvation would be the same as if the Israelites decided to stay put Eypty on the evening God saved them from death, via the blood of the lamb.
Staying in Egypt would have blocked them from receiving the new life. The reconciling death of Jesus is part of salvation. His sanctifying life is the other part.

BroRog
Feb 6th 2011, 09:43 PM
Christ's death is vital to our salvation since without it we would all still be dead in our sins. But as that verse is saying, his resurrection is also very important to our salvation. Paul brings up the resurrection a lot, and for good reason.

Romans 6:8 - Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:14 - And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

In resurrecting from the dead, Christ officially defeated death, which paves the way for believers to have new life in Him. Sure his death is technically what saves us, but ultimately it's kind of pointless if he hadn't risen from the dead. His resurrection defeated death and 'sealed the deal' for us so to speak. :cool:This is a good point and all of what you say is true. But I wonder if this is the point Paul was making in 5:10, or if he was making another, also true, point.

Neanias
Feb 6th 2011, 10:28 PM
I also think that if we actually began living the same kind of life he lived...the spiritual life...then the same power and life which was in him would come to us!

Amen, Brother!

As 'believers' today, everyone believes the first part, that he died for us and we are reconciled to him by this, but how many believe we are saved by his life? The Gospel is that he died for us, that we may be reconciled, and lived and was raised again that we may walk in the same power as he walked and be as he is!

Nomad
Feb 6th 2011, 11:35 PM
In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were Godís enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?

Christ's resurrected life is just as much a part of salvation as is his death. Those who stand reconciled to God by Christ's death are now the recipients of Christ's priestly intercession as he stands before God on our behalf. Notice in the following passages how Christ's priestly intercession is not simply a single event, but an ongoing process.

Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Heb 7:25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

episkopos
Feb 7th 2011, 12:27 AM
In Romans 5:10, Paul writes,

"For if, while we were Godís enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

How can we be saved through his life when we are always told it is by his death that we are saved?


Jesus Christ IS our salvation. We are meant to walk in His life. To abide in Him. There is salvation IN no other.

percho
Feb 7th 2011, 04:43 AM
It is my contention that:
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. means the exact same thing as Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; and both mean the exact same thing as Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In each of these it is only about what Jesus did and received from the Father. Verse 6 of Titus 3 tells us what Christ did with what he received and this is covered in verse 5 of Romans 5

WSGAC
Feb 7th 2011, 02:49 PM
Christ's resurrected life is just as much a part of salvation as is his death. Those who stand reconciled to God by Christ's death are now the recipients of Christ's priestly intercession as he stands before God on our behalf. Notice in the following passages how Christ's priestly intercession is not simply a single event, but an ongoing process.

Is it just his resurrected life? Does his earthly life not play some role? His resurrection vindicated the earthly life he lived. That earthly life is the "way" to salvation!

Nomad
Feb 7th 2011, 05:06 PM
Is it just his resurrected life? Does his earthly life not play some role? His resurrection vindicated the earthly life he lived. That earthly life is the "way" to salvation!

It's not a matter of one over the other. Both the pre and post resurrection life of Christ are integral to his work of atonement. However, Paul is very specific about which aspect of Christ's life he refers to in Romans 5:10. Notice the language Paul uses. He says that being reconciled (past tense) we shall be (future tense) saved by his life. Christ's pre resurrection life (born under the Law, being made like those he came to save, etc.) along with his death was part and parcel of our reconciliation, which Paul declares in 5:10 we already possess. Paul is referring to a subsequent or post resurrection work of Christ, namely, his continual intercession for us before God. The OP was couched in a specific text in which Paul makes reference to a specific aspect of Christ's "life."

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

episkopos
Feb 7th 2011, 05:07 PM
Great thread!

For strait is the gate AND narrow the way that leads to life

One could say that the door being narrow is the death aspect of God's reconciliation.
The way being narrow pertains to the resurrection life that must follow to be IN Christ.

If we are in Christ then His life dwells in us. We know this by the fruit of our own doings.

WSGAC
Feb 7th 2011, 06:12 PM
It's not a matter of one over the other. Both the pre and post resurrection life of Christ are integral to his work of atonement.

But it's his death that atones for sin, not his life. "Life is in the blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no atonement for sin."

You say "both the pre and post resurrection life are integral to his work...." But how is his pre resurrection life integral? How does it save us?


Christ's pre resurrection life (born under the Law, being made like those he came to save, etc.) along with his death was part and parcel of our reconciliation, which Paul declares in 5:10 we already possess.

But Paul doesn't say that in Romans 5:10. It isn't Christ life that reconciles us, but his death: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, His death is what reconciles us. His Life is what saves us: "...how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"


Paul is referring to a subsequent or post resurrection work of Christ, namely, his continual intercession for us before God.

This would suggest that it's only the resurrected life of Christ that is operating here (not his pre resurretion life), since only his post resurrection life can intercede. But how does his earthly life function in salvation?

RabbiKnife
Feb 7th 2011, 06:29 PM
Is it just his resurrected life? Does his earthly life not play some role? His resurrection vindicated the earthly life he lived. That earthly life is the "way" to salvation!

Hockey pucks.

Jesus is the way, not what he did on the planet. His resurrection did not "vindicate" anything. It simply demonstrated that his sacrifice was sufficient.

We are not saved by his death. Salvation includes the ultimate resurrection of our bodies. We are saved by the life that HE now has.

WSGAC
Feb 7th 2011, 06:36 PM
Hockey pucks.

Jesus is the way, not what he did on the planet. His resurrection did not "vindicate" anything. It simply demonstrated that his sacrifice was sufficient.

We are not saved by his death. Salvation includes the ultimate resurrection of our bodies. We are saved by the life that HE now has.

He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit 1 Timothy 3:16

His resurrection vindicates his life, meaning his earthly life is declared sufficient, without blame, worthy, defendable. His earthly life cannot be extinguished, not even by death, because the life he lived was the true and godly life...the life that saves! What he did on the planet absolutely matters!

RogerW
Feb 7th 2011, 06:54 PM
What some hint at, but aren't exactly stating is His sinless perfection in life. He lived in this world without sin, as the perfect Lamb of God without spot or blemish! Would His death on the cross vindicate anyone (than perhaps Himself)? Wasn't a sinless, perfect life also necessary for One to make atonement for sin?

WSGAC
Feb 7th 2011, 07:28 PM
What's some hint at, but aren't exactly stating is His sinless perfection in life. He lived in this world without sin, as the perfect Lamb of God without spot or blemish! Would His death on the cross vindicate anyone (than perhaps Himself)? Wasn't a sinless, perfect life also necessary for One to make atonement for sin?

So you're saying we understand his life (the way he lived) only in terms of his death? His life had to be perfect, in order to be a perfect sacrifice?

Yet Paul says it's Jesus' life that saves us, not his death. Therefore something about the life he lived is efficacious for salvation. But what is it? Or how does it work?

percho
Feb 7th 2011, 08:57 PM
It is his resurrected life by witch we shall be saved. Men die. The Word was made flesh to suffer death. Death can not give life. Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. Why?? For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: In other words he is still dead. He would have no life to give you and me. The washing, that is out being cleaned by his blood, is only possible if he has life to give. By washing of regeneration. The regeneration is what makes the washing possible.

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Baptized = Death and the shedding of blood
went up straightway out of the water = regeneration
The Spirit of God descending like a dove = renewing of the Holy Spirit

For by grace are ye saved through faith;-----For by grace are ye saved by the washing of regeneration = the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen and by this he Jesus the Christ received the promise made to Abraham and his seed the one seed Christ The Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

RogerW
Feb 7th 2011, 09:07 PM
So you're saying we understand his life (the way he lived) only in terms of his death? His life had to be perfect, in order to be a perfect sacrifice?

Yet Paul says it's Jesus' life that saves us, not his death. Therefore something about the life he lived is efficacious for salvation. But what is it? Or how does it work?

His righteousness, that is His righteous (holy, innocent) life! "as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" (Ro 5:18). Apart from His perfect righteousness, we are yet in our sin, condemned. It is by His gift of righteousness that we reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

RollTide21
Feb 7th 2011, 09:14 PM
He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit 1 Timothy 3:16

His resurrection vindicates his life, meaning his earthly life is declared sufficient, without blame, worthy, defendable. His earthly life cannot be extinguished, not even by death, because the life he lived was the true and godly life...the life that saves! What he did on the planet absolutely matters!His earthly life was merely the result of who He is. Jesus' life is pointless and our faith in vain if He didn't die and be resurrected.

Is 1 Timothy 3 talking about Jesus life when it states "He appeared in the flesh"? Or...is he referring to the resurrected Christ appearing in the flesh? I think he is referring to the latter.

RollTide21
Feb 7th 2011, 09:15 PM
What some hint at, but aren't exactly stating is His sinless perfection in life. He lived in this world without sin, as the perfect Lamb of God without spot or blemish! Would His death on the cross vindicate anyone (than perhaps Himself)? Wasn't a sinless, perfect life also necessary for One to make atonement for sin?Yes. That is a very good perspective on His life.

RollTide21
Feb 7th 2011, 09:17 PM
So you're saying we understand his life (the way he lived) only in terms of his death? His life had to be perfect, in order to be a perfect sacrifice?

Yet Paul says it's Jesus' life that saves us, not his death. Therefore something about the life he lived is efficacious for salvation. But what is it? Or how does it work?In the passages you refer to, is not Paul referring to His life AFTER death? His resurrection?

percho
Feb 7th 2011, 09:42 PM
His earthly life was merely the result of who He is. Jesus' life is pointless and our faith in vain if He didn't die and be resurrected.

Is 1 Timothy 3 talking about Jesus life when it states "He appeared in the flesh"? Or...is he referring to the resurrected Christ appearing in the flesh? I think he is referring to the latter.

That is speaking of being born of Mary.

RollTide21
Feb 7th 2011, 09:47 PM
That is speaking of being born of Mary.???

____________________________

percho
Feb 7th 2011, 09:52 PM
???

____________________________

1 Tim 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh,

Mark F
Feb 8th 2011, 12:05 PM
1 Cor 15
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

RabbiKnife commented, it showed us that His sacrafice was sufficient, God raised Him up as confirmation.


2 Peter 1:19-21
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


The resurrection is a confirmation of the integrity of Scripture, who says God doesn't give us evidence the Bible is His word?!!!

He also rose to be the executor of His own will.


Hebrews 9:15-17
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

Your Advert here


Hosted by Webnet77