Hello, my name is Tirapu. I am a life long non-believer. My primary reason for not believing in a supreme being is because there is no evidence to support such a thing existing. However, I am very intrigued by the fact such a large percentage of our population adamantly believes a supreme being exists. I have come here to learn and understand more about why Christians believe as they do - especially when there is no quantifiable evidence of a supreme being. And if someone can show me quantifiably that a God exists, then I will most definitely convert to Christianity. Thanks for your support.

Hello and welcome!

Hello Tirapu!
Welcome!

Hello, and welcome. I believe you may be able to find answers here: and I pray that we all have meaningful dialog with you.

In Him,

CC

Romans 8:15-17

Welcome, Tirapu. Hope you find that for which you are looking.

blessings,

Watchman :)

Hi Tirapu! :wave: Welcome to the board! :pp May I suggest, that if you truly want to believe.... pray and keep praying to the Lord and ask God to "show" you.

Thank you all for the welcome greetings.

I have tried to post questions in the "ask Christians" forum, but they haven't yet shown up. How long does it take?

Sedux - I have asked God to show me, but I have yet to see any evidence that a supreme being exists. (I guess if he knows everything, I don't specifically have to ask him to show me; he would already know). Why would a God who knows I want to be able to see his power not show himself to me?

Thank you all for the welcome greetings.

I have tried to post questions in the "ask Christians" forum, but they haven't yet shown up. How long does it take?

Sedux - I have asked God to show me, but I have yet to see any evidence that a supreme being exists. (I guess if he knows everything, I don't specifically have to ask him to show me; he would already know). Why would a God who knows I want to be able to see his power not show himself to me?

I don't know why your posts would not show up, but a maod will see this soon and let you know whats up with that.

How long have you been asking to meet God?

Welcome to the forum!!! :) :wave:

Thank you all for the welcome greetings.

I have tried to post questions in the "ask Christians" forum, but they haven't yet shown up. How long does it take?

Sedux - I have asked God to show me, but I have yet to see any evidence that a supreme being exists. (I guess if he knows everything, I don't specifically have to ask him to show me; he would already know). Why would a God who knows I want to be able to see his power not show himself to me?


Sorry if you are still having problems posting. I've reported this to the appropriate individuals and it will be resolved soon enough.
And welcome to the board, I hope that through your time here you may come to truly believe on our Lord and be saved, as I am sure that is all our hope. Have fun!:hug:

Sedux - I have asked God to show me, but I have yet to see any evidence that a supreme being exists.God's evidence may be completely different than your definition of evidence.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

If you are praying for evidence that God exists, maybe you should pray for FAITH and for God to help your unbelief. Just a thought. :)


(I guess if he knows everything, I don't specifically have to ask him to show me; he would already know).God already knows - Yes. But to receive, you must seek with all your heart - and that which you are seeking must be God's will for you.


Why would a God who knows I want to be able to see his power not show himself to me?Patience. God's timing is not always our timing. He may very well be in the process of doing so, whether you know it or not. But God is not a genie in a bottle. He loves you and always has your best interest in mind, but that may not always be what we desire.

I pray that you will not be discouraged, and that you will continue to seek the Lord, and that He will reveal Himself to you. :pray: Again, welcome Tirapu and have a wonderful day!

Thank you all for the welcome greetings.

I have tried to post questions in the "ask Christians" forum, but they haven't yet shown up. How long does it take?

Sedux - I have asked God to show me, but I have yet to see any evidence that a supreme being exists. (I guess if he knows everything, I don't specifically have to ask him to show me; he would already know). Why would a God who knows I want to be able to see his power not show himself to me?

Hello Tirapu

I would suggest reading the Message of Jesus. I would also suggest you persist in calling out to God to reveal himself to you. But i would also say they you must be open to the possibility that God exists and be earnest in your desire to know the truth of the matter no matter what the consequences.

I hope you gain some benefit from engaging in discussions with us.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I don't know why your posts would not show up, but a maod will see this soon and let you know whats up with that.

How long have you been asking to meet God?
I don't exactly word it the same way you do, but I understand what you mean. Ever since I was first introduced to the concept of God (or an all-knowing, all-powerful being) when I was a child, I have wanted to see a demonstration of his power. But I have yet to see anything.

Hello Tirapu

I would suggest reading the Message of Jesus.
If "the Message of Jesus" means the Bible or parts of the Bible, then I've attempted that. However, I get lost when reading the Bible, as it is difficult to tell what parts to take literally and what parts to take as allegory.


I would also suggest you persist in calling out to God to reveal himself to you.
If "reveal himself" means to show he exists, then if he's all-knowing, then he already knows that I'm interested in seeing evidence of his existence. But I see/observe nothing? Or is it possible that I am well aware of God's existence, but I don't refer to it as "God"?


But i would also say they you must be open to the possibility that God exists and be earnest in your desire to know the truth of the matter no matter what the consequences.
I am very open to the possibility God exists. Can one know with 100% certainty that the truth is that God exists? If so, then would that person have faith that God exists or would the faith have become knowledge?

So you have been wanting to meet God since you were a child.
Have you ever literally asked Him to let you meet Him?
Have you ever read the New Testament?
Have you ever reached a point in your life where you thought: life is very hard and the pain most often outweighs the joy, and if I just die and that is the end, then those people who are brave enough to end their lives are the smartest among us because it is only temporary and filled with many griefs anyway, so what is the point of the whole thing?

I guess what I am asking is: have you ever suspected that it just might be futile to spend so many years collecting things and struggling to survive when it just ends anyway?

If "the Message of Jesus" means the Bible or parts of the Bible, then I've attempted that. However, I get lost when reading the Bible, as it is difficult to tell what parts to take literally and what parts to take as allegory.


If "reveal himself" means to show he exists, then if he's all-knowing, then he already knows that I'm interested in seeing evidence of his existence. But I see/observe nothing? Or is it possible that I am well aware of God's existence, but I don't refer to it as "God"?


I am very open to the possibility God exists. Can one know with 100% certainty that the truth is that God exists? If so, then would that person have faith that God exists or would the faith have become knowledge?

Yes, one can know with 100% certainty that He exists. Once you have met Him, you are definitely 100% certain He exists. I will never, never forget the day I actually met Him and He made Himself known to me - literally. Before that day, I hoped He existed. I needed for Him to exist because I had seen how futile it all seemed to me. I wanted there to be a purpose for living but I really could not see one, when it all ended after a few years anyway. So I hoped and I picked up a bible and began to read. And then He came to me.

So you have been wanting to meet God since you were a child.
Have you ever literally asked Him to let you meet Him?
Have you ever read the New Testament?
Have you ever reached a point in your life where you thought: life is very hard and the pain most often outweighs the joy, and if I just die and that is the end, then those people who are brave enough to end their lives are the smartest among us because it is only temporary and filled with many griefs anyway, so what is the point of the whole thing?

I guess what I am asking is: have you ever suspected that it just might be futile to spend so many years collecting things and struggling to survive when it just ends anyway?



Good point. And welcome.

If "the Message of Jesus" means the Bible or parts of the Bible, then I've attempted that. However, I get lost when reading the Bible, as it is difficult to tell what parts to take literally and what parts to take as allegory.

Have you read the Books Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?



If "reveal himself" means to show he exists, then if he's all-knowing, then he already knows that I'm interested in seeing evidence of his existence. But I see/observe nothing? Or is it possible that I am well aware of God's existence, but I don't refer to it as "God"?

Is it a semi-detached curiosity type of interest or a deep need to know kind?

A lot of people are aware that God exists within some part of their conscience. That's why there is so much interest in the topic. Even the most rabid atheists have a part in them that knows God is. That's why many of them get so emotional when discussing God, people do not get emotionaly agitated when they are talking about something they truly believe does not exist.



I am very open to the possibility God exists. Can one know with 100% certainty that the truth is that God exists? If so, then would that person have faith that God exists or would the faith have become knowledge?

Well for me i read the Message of the Bible and it was a revelation in total, Yes there where many parts i read through where i was totally confused and could not make it out, but i kept on reading regardless. In the end many things that one reads later in the bible can reveal the meaning of what was read before. There are still parts of the Bible that confound me. But with the Help of the Holy Spirit i have been shown much. Now i never had dreams and personal revelation from God till i accepted His Message revealed through the teachings of Jesus. I believed and embraced the message and God game me confirmations that i never thought i would receive.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If "the Message of Jesus" means the Bible or parts of the Bible, then I've attempted that. However, I get lost when reading the Bible, as it is difficult to tell what parts to take literally and what parts to take as allegory.


If "reveal himself" means to show he exists, then if he's all-knowing, then he already knows that I'm interested in seeing evidence of his existence. But I see/observe nothing? Or is it possible that I am well aware of God's existence, but I don't refer to it as "God"?


I am very open to the possibility God exists. Can one know with 100% certainty that the truth is that God exists? If so, then would that person have faith that God exists or would the faith have become knowledge?

Be honest with Him...yes, He is already fully aware of you...all about you...the question is...are you fully aware?...no your not...none of us are...we must allow Him to not only reveal Himself.... but reveal our own hearts to us(John 16:8). We cannot know God or know about God unless He reveal Himself to us...which He has done(Romans 1:20)...and is more than willing to reveal further as our hearts become fertile for His wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.

The simple fact is....our understanding is dependent upon the Holy Spirit(John 16:7-14)...so first things first...first, coming to Christ and second, those who do.... are "sealed" with/by the Holy Spirit(2 Corinthians 1:22)

As far as reading the Bible goes....simple rule...take the plain sense(literal) unless the plain sense makes no sense. The Bible is not a trick question, nor does it require figuring out a puzzle of symbolism, allegory, and metaphorical wording. Just read it. And allow the Lord to take you one step at a time...

Go to Him, ask Him, seek and knock, it will be opened to you. (Matthew 7:7)

Seeking the holy, righteous, Creator is contrary to the human being...we are not holy and righteous when measured up to the standard of such according to God's standard. You are dependent upon Him..but He is merciful and full of grace, and He is waiting for you.
:hug:

So you have been wanting to meet God since you were a child.
Have you ever literally asked Him to let you meet Him?
What do you mean by that? I can't address something with a question or a request if I can't observe that something. However, if God truly is all-knowing, then whether or not I literally ask God to let me meet him is moot, as he'll already know what I want.


Have you ever read the New Testament?
Parts of it. Other than that the Bible is the driving force behind Christian's beliefs in God, I have absolutely no interest in it.


Have you ever reached a point in your life where you thought: life is very hard and the pain most often outweighs the joy, and if I just die and that is the end, then those people who are brave enough to end their lives are the smartest among us because it is only temporary and filled with many griefs anyway, so what is the point of the whole thing?
I don't have thoughts like that. My life is full of delight, joy, peace, happiness, friendship and love.


I guess what I am asking is: have you ever suspected that it just might be futile to spend so many years collecting things and struggling to survive when it just ends anyway?
Are you saying we shouldn't strive to enjoy life? If so, why?

Yes, one can know with 100% certainty that He exists.
Can this be quantified or objectified, so everyone can observe that certainty?


Once you have met Him, you are definitely 100% certain He exists. I will never, never forget the day I actually met Him and He made Himself known to me - literally.
Please describe what occurred when you met God. Did you see him with your eyes? Did you hear him with your ears? If so, if someone else had been present, would that person also have seen him and heard him?


Before that day, I hoped He existed. I needed for Him to exist because I had seen how futile it all seemed to me. I wanted there to be a purpose for living but I really could not see one, when it all ended after a few years anyway. So I hoped and I picked up a bible and began to read. And then He came to me.
I'll tell you what. I'll think of a number from 1 to 10 million. Ask God what number I am thinking of. Then when God tells you what number I'm thinking of, tell me what God said. Then if the number matches the number I was thinking of, I'll be convinced an all-knowing, all-powerful God exists.

Hi Tirapu...if you will take you questions over to the Christians Answer (http://bibleforums.org/forumdisplay.php/39-Christians-Answer) forum...you will get more responses. Intro is really not for discussion and our members will see your questions better over in CA...most of them are pretty familiar with the Intro forum being primarily for hellos...

Please disregard what I have said Tirapu,
When you said you were very open to God if He exists, I believed you.
But now you say you have absolutely no interest in the bible at all.
So just disregard all that I said and asked.

Hi Tirapu...if you will take you questions over to the Christians Answer (http://bibleforums.org/forumdisplay.php/39-Christians-Answer) forum...you will get more responses. Intro is really not for discussion and our members will see your questions better over in CA...most of them are pretty familiar with the Intro forum being primarily for hellos...
I've tried posting, but my posts don't show up. What's up with that?

Please disregard what I have said Tirapu,
When you said you were very open to God if He exists, I believed you.
But now you say you have absolutely no interest in the bible at all.
So just disregard all that I said and asked.
I'm interested in observing the powers of God, but the Bible doesn't interest me. Is there a conflict with that? If so, why?

I'm interested in observing the powers of God, but the Bible doesn't interest me. Is there a conflict with that? If so, why?

Yes, there is a conflict. See, God is revealed through His Word. Through His message to us, which comes from the Bible. While I am speaking for myself, I know that He exists, just as the Bible says He does. I know that Jesus was real, came to this earth, died for my sins, and rose again. The reason I know this is because His Word says so: but it is more then that. It is a knowledge in my heart that tells me it is so.

See, I spent many years trying to disprove God and the Bible. What I ended up doing was proving to myself beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is real, that God is real, that Jesus is real. There are times where I have physically seen His power, through healings and such. But most often, because I have the faith to believe in Him, I do not need to see things of that nature.

The Bible is the way He begins to communicate with us: it is the basis of our relationship with Him. See, Christianity is not really a religion, it is a relationship. And a large portion of that relationship is found in the Bible. How are you to know what to look for, or how He will lead you, without reading it? It is like any relationship: if you want a one way street, nothing much will happen.

In Him,

CC

Romans 8:15-17

Yes, there is a conflict. See, God is revealed through His Word. Through His message to us, which comes from the Bible. While I am speaking for myself, I know that He exists, just as the Bible says He does. I know that Jesus was real, came to this earth, died for my sins, and rose again. The reason I know this is because His Word says so: but it is more then that. It is a knowledge in my heart that tells me it is so.
Do you know this factually? Do you know with 100% certainty that it is true? If so, then it appears you don't have faith, but have knowledge.


See, I spent many years trying to disprove God and the Bible. What I ended up doing was proving to myself beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is real, that God is real, that Jesus is real.
I've also seen first hand that the Bible is real. But how was it proven to you that God and Jesus are real.

(just so there is no confusion, please define 'God').


There are times where I have physically seen His power, through healings and such.[quote]
Give me some examples and explain how you knew it was God.

[quote]But most often, because I have the faith to believe in Him, I do not need to see things of that nature.
Earlier you said you had proof and knowledge. Now you're saying you have faith - which is belief without proof. Which is it? Do you have proof & knowledge? Or do you just have faith?


The Bible is the way He begins to communicate with us: it is the basis of our relationship with Him.The Bible is just a book written by humans. Please explain how a book written by humans can be the basis for humans to communicate with a supernatural being.


See, Christianity is not really a religion, it is a relationship. And a large portion of that relationship is found in the Bible. How are you to know what to look for, or how He will lead you, without reading it? It is like any relationship: if you want a one way street, nothing much will happen.
Well, if God wants me to believe he exists, and he is indeed omnipotent and omniscient, then it would be about as easy for him to do what it would take to get me to believe as it would be for you or me to take a breath of air. But he doesn't do anything different from what a non-existent God would do.

Well, if God wants me to believe he exists, and he is indeed omnipotent and omniscient, then it would be about as easy for him to do what it would take to get me to believe as it would be for you or me to take a breath of air. But he doesn't do anything different from what a non-existent God would do.

And this is the real reason why your here: you want God to prove Himself to you. Why should He? What is it that you want from Him? You want Him to write your name in the sky with a poem about you? Or would you prefer Him to give you everything or anything you want?

See, this discussion will go no further on my part: pretty soon you will be asking me how many angels dance on the head of a pin. And since you say you do not want any Biblical references, and yet you state this:


I've also seen first hand that the Bible is real. But how was it proven to you that God and Jesus are real.

It leads me to believe your just looking for some sort of an argument, not an honest discussion. See, you remind me in a lot of ways of the Rich Young Ruler. When he asked Jesus what he had to do to have Eternal Life, Jesus gave him a list. When he said he had done the initial list, Jesus loved him. Then told him to sell everything, and follow Him. The ruler turned away, saddened, because he had a great many things. You appear to be quite intelligent, but also very, very lost. You say you want answers, but it truly appears all you want is to attempt to draw Christians into arguments that really cannot be "won" by either side.

All I can do is pray for you.

In Him,

CC

Romans 8:15-17

And this is the real reason why your here: you want God to prove Himself to you.
Yes, if God exists, I challenge him to prove to me he exists. I'll accept proof which I can't share with others - in which case, he'll remain hidden or unprovable.


Why should He?
Because he loves me and he wants to fellowship with me. Let's say you loved your child and wanted him to acknowledge you. Your child didn't believe you existed, but wanted to be acquainted with you if you did exist. Would you sit there and do nothing or would you reach out to your child and show yourself to him?


What is it that you want from Him?
For him to prove to me he exists.


You want Him to write your name in the sky with a poem about you? Or would you prefer Him to give you everything or anything you want?
Neither. Just enough to convince me he exists.


See, this discussion will go no further on my part: pretty soon you will be asking me how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
What exactly are angels?


And since you say you do not want any Biblical references, and yet you state this:

I've also seen first hand that the Bible is real. But how was it proven to you that God and Jesus are real.
What I meant is the Bibles I have seen are indeed real. I've picked them up, flipped through the pages and read a little bit to know that it really is a book. I don't have faith that the Bible is a real book. I have knowledge and proof that it is a real book. And apparently millions of them exist.


It leads me to believe your just looking for some sort of an argument, not an honest discussion.
No. I'm looking for God to prove to me he exists. It is my challenge to God.


See, you remind me in a lot of ways of the Rich Young Ruler. When he asked Jesus what he had to do to have Eternal Life, Jesus gave him a list. When he said he had done the initial list, Jesus loved him. Then told him to sell everything, and follow Him. The ruler turned away, saddened, because he had a great many things.
Obviously the rich young ruler was a wise man and didn't want to be robbed of his riches by what appeared to him to be some kind of con man.


You appear to be quite intelligent, but also very, very lost.
I'm very intelligent. But I am not lost. I know precisely where I am.


You say you want answers, but it truly appears all you want is to attempt to draw Christians into arguments that really cannot be "won" by either side.
I don't care who wins or loses arguments. While I do have questions about some things pertaining to Christianity, my primary objective is for God to prove to me he exists.


All I can do is pray for you.
Yes, you can pray for me. You can also help by answering some of my questions and encouraging others in here to as well.

Yes, if God exists, I challenge him to prove to me he exists. I'll accept proof which I can't share with others - in which case, he'll remain hidden or unprovable.

Look around you at His creation: there is your proof.

If you need more then that, then no one here can help you. It truly comes down to you and God. So, as they say, the ball is in your court.

Yes, if God exists, I challenge him to prove to me he exists. I'll accept proof which I can't share with others - in which case, he'll remain hidden or unprovable.

... For him to prove to me he exists.

... Just enough to convince me he exists.

... I'm looking for God to prove to me he exists. It is my challenge to God.

... my primary objective is for God to prove to me he exists.



Why should God have to prove Himself to you?

It would be far easier if there was proof that God existed. Everyone in the world would be forced to follow in Him simply because there would be no way to deny His existence. So theoretically everyone would have what they wanted - everyone would believe in God because everyone would know He was there, and so there would be no sense in disbelieving; and God would have billions of followers.

But with proof comes a lack of choice. The 'belief' part of it disappears, and everyone would be a follower instead. But if everyone all over the world followed, and was convinced by God's everyday presence, perhaps, or maybe the daily miracles that occurred, everyone would become desensitised to His presence. A bit like the presence of motor vehicles nowadays - they are so common you hardly notice them on the roads, yet when they were first produced they were the object of fascination.

With the existence of proof, everyone would be forced to acknowledge God's existence if they wanted to or not - if they didn't, they would be denying the evidence.

But God wants people to choose to believe He exists, rather than forcing everyone to believe. And yes, choosing to believe in something that cannot be proven is rather hard, especially when it's all in a book written more than 2000 years ago. But there are small steps in people's beliefs without them seeing the proof, that happen every day.

I believe that gravity exists. I have been told that it has been proven to exist. But I personally have not seen the proof.

I believe that the air exists, and there are different layers of it way above the Earth. I have seen illustrations of it. I know different elements are in the air. But air isn't visible to me in general, except, for instance, on a windy day. According to the weather forecasts, air in the form of wind moves above the world and brings different weather. But I have seen no more proof than the squiggles on the TV forecast.


Maybe you have heard of Saul of Tarsus. He was a Jew who violently persecuted those who were following Jesus, after Jesus had been put to death. Yet one day he had an encounter with the risen Jesus. This was enough to change him from anti-Jesus to pro-Jesus. Saul of Tarsus is St Paul. You can read about him, and his conversion, here http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/history/paul_1.shtml

So belief in God isn't so much about being given proof as to looking for it. From my own studies I have found that the interior of cells is miraculous, and it is hard to believe that such a refined thing arose purely from evolution. But that isn't definitive proof that God exists. You have to take a step, find out about Jesus and try to see things objectively rather than sceptically. You have to search honestly for God. God revealing himself to sceptics would be far too easy. God will know the disbelief in your heart and it's a kind of veil that keeps you apart.

I have myself only really begun my Christian journey and so I am going off belief alone. Yet people here further on in their Christian walk have had proof to themselves that He exists. Try reading people's testimonies in the testimony forum: they can be food for thought.

A man named Saul, later called Paul, in the bible was in a position of authority during the growth of the church of God in the first century, and he ruthlessly persecuted the Jews who were turning to Jesus as their Messiah. Paul later became an apostle of Jesus Christ after having an encounter with the resurrected, risen Jesus. In the book of Romans, the Apostle Paul wrote, “that which is known about God is evident within man for God made it evident to them” (Romans 1:19). We’re born knowing there is a God because God makes it evident within us. I know that’s not the kind of proof you’re looking for, but I want you to understand why, as a child, you pondered the concept of God at all. The Apostle Paul also wrote, “for since the creation of the world God’s invisible attributes, His eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made, so that man is without excuse” (Romans 1:20). God tells us, through Paul’s writing, that what He has written on your heart and what He has revealed to you through His grand creation are proof enough of His existence. Again, this is probably not the proof you’re looking for, but God tells us He considers it enough and when we stand before God, it is this evidence that will leave us without excuse for not believing in the God of creation. It is true that for some people, like the Apostle Paul, God creates a miraculous event in order to convince a person of His existence. At first, this may sound unfair, but it’s not. God tells us that He has given every single man ample evidence to believe that He exists. If God wants to make Himself known in a more powerful way to any given man, He can do that, because it doesn’t take away from the ample evidence that He’s already given every other man who's ever lived.

Now, for a personal experience. One evening as I was saying goodnight to my 9 year old, he asked me, “How can I know for sure that God is real and that He really hears my prayers?” I told him that he should pray and then look for God’s answer to his prayer. Understandably, he asked how to look for an answer. I told him that it depends on the prayer. I said, “Whatever you pray, make sure it’s something meaningful to you. For example, if you have compassion for the poor, pray for the poor and ask God to let you know that He has heard your prayer. An example of God’s answer would be you getting a letter in the mail from a poor person the next day." So, the next evening as I was saying goodnight, I was about to walk out of the room, and I stopped and said, “Son, did you happen to pray to God last night like we talked about and look for His answer?” He said, “Yes, mommy but God didn’t answer.” I told him that it was okay because God doesn’t always answer us right away. I asked, “What did you pray for?” He told me that he liked my suggestion because he really does care for the poor. My heart skipped a beat, because just before I walked up to say goodnight to him, I casually flipped through the mail we got that day, and there was a letter from a little, poor girl in Africa. We had recently sponsored this girl and we had NEVER received a letter from her before. My son had NEVER received a letter from any poor child before. When I saw the letter, it didn’t even come to my mind that I had made that suggestion the night before. When my son told me what he had prayed for, I raced downstairs and brought him the letter. He opened it and read the sweet, grateful words of this little African girl. My son looked at me with big eyes and said, “Now I know for sure that God is real and He really does hear my prayers.”

I’ve told this story many times since then, because I believe it’s a miracle. I think God knew that letter would arrive the next day, and I believe God put that suggestion in my heart. I think God put the desire in my son’s heart to pray for what I suggested. I believe God did all this for my son…and for me. Some with whom I’ve shared this story think of all kinds of reasons to not believe it was from God. That is their choice. And now it’s your choice to take what you want from it.

Just wanted to thank you for your many threads. Many non-believing lurkers genuinely seeking God who are hesitant to become members will read our replies and come to faith. It's so awesome! :pp