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isaiah9:6
Jul 10th 2005, 09:21 PM
I don't know the answer to this. I have heard people say diferent things about it. I noitced in the Left Behind movie, when the rapture occured the animals were left. So the makers of that movie probably don't believe animals have souls. What do you think?

DaniB
Jul 10th 2005, 10:07 PM
I truly don't know.....somewhere in the Bible it talks about animals going back to the earth from where they came. I'd love to think that I'll see my cat and dogs again in Heaven, but I wonder will I?? Then I think if they do then bugs will go too...spiders, mice, rats, gnats...if we truly want to think of them as God's creatures. Or do we go by anything that has breath?

If our pets had souls...then they would need to be saved too.

USMC
Jul 11th 2005, 01:43 AM
I don't know the answer to this. I have heard people say diferent things about it. I noitced in the Left Behind movie, when the rapture occured the animals were left. So the makers of that movie probably don't believe animals have souls. What do you think?

Yes, animals do have souls, but, unlike the human soul, their soul is not immortal. That means when their body separates from the soul, the body dies and the soul ceases to exist. The soul, or "spirit", of an animal is in some ways similar to that of a plant: it sustains the life of the material part of the being, but when that life ends, the life of the spirit ends as well.

The reason the human soul is immortal (will never end) is because God created man to live with him for all eternity. When man sinned and fell from grace, the immortal nature of the soul did not change. Those who are saved when they die will live for ever with God; those who are not saved will live for ever in hell; but both will live forever because the nature of the soul is immortal.

Man was made to serve God in this life and to be happy with Him forever in the next. But the animal was made to serve man in this life, and not in the next. When the earthly life of the animal is finished, its reason for existence has been fulfilled. Thus the soul of the animal, like the soul (or "spirit), of the plant will cease to exist when death occurs.

Frink
Jul 11th 2005, 02:25 AM
Well for what I believe, is that animals are without soul until a human soul has loved them. I believe a human soul can create an animal soul along with yours. Because if God is withen us then God would be able to create that soul, but we must first allow God to create that soul through us. I believe it takes a human to create a sould for an animal by allowing God to create it and by allowing I mean loving the animal, then God will create it.

Loriallison
Jul 11th 2005, 04:04 AM
Animals don't have souls, but dogs are so special. They are so human like, you often feel like they understand you, and the give so much joy. I had to put my first dog to sleep, and at the time it was hardest thing I had ever done. I cried for days. My dad is a minister, and I asked him do you think dogs go to heaven? He said he doesn't think so, but he's not sure how God could create something that gives humans so much joy, and then does nothing with them afterwards. I guess we won't know till we get there.
Lori

TEITZY
Jul 11th 2005, 04:59 AM
The basic idea of the soul as it pertains to man is concerned with his will and emotions and most would agree that dogs as well as many other animals possess both these characteristics, while plants and biotic life such as bacteria, viruses etc. do not. Of course the difference between man and animals is that man was created in the image of God for the express purpose of a personal relationship with him which is facilitated through our spirits. The Bible never refers to animals having spirits, nor commiting sin, so this further highlights the obvious differences between man and animals.


As for there being animals in heaven, the Bible doesn't indicate there will be, however we assume there will be animals populating the new earth (Rev 21:1) wherein righteousness dwells therefore no need to take rover to obedience school! Good dog :lol:

Cheers
Leigh

PS - Where do all bad cats go when they die?








Dog heaven of course:rofl:

isaiah9:6
Jul 11th 2005, 05:22 AM
speaking of plants, I read in a science magazine that they might think that trees think. They did experiments that had interesting results. In a section of rain forest they introduced treeboring bugs to some of the trees. A time later the trees secreted a chemical that killed the insects. They then sampled the same chemical from the trees that were near the other trees but not infected with the bugs. None of the trees produced this chemical before the introduction. This led the scientists to wonder if trees have a way of communicating with one another to warn of danger. They said if that was true then we would have to rethink about plants being just inanimate objects.

undertheblood
Jul 11th 2005, 10:18 AM
Yes, animals do have souls, but, unlike the human soul, their soul is not immortal. That means when their body separates from the soul, the body dies and the soul ceases to exist. Thus the soul of the animal, like the soul (or "spirit), of the plant will cease to exist when death occurs.For the first part, I whole-heartedly agree with USMC answer, yes animals have souls. I think I disagree with want you said after that.

Does a plant have fear, happiness, love (albeit animal love), anger, and peace. No but an animal does experience these emotions, and after all that is what a soul produces, soul is that which feels.

Pro 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

A plower is not going to kill his beast, no, he wouldn't do that. So that verse isn't talking about taking it's live, it must be talking about something else - it's soul. When the body of a man or animal is deprived of water and food or is beaten and treat harsely, it is the soul that is in anguish.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I could be wrong, but, I believe all the beast of the earth has the breath of life, the breath of God (soul) in them; and when they die that living soul returns to God, not to eternally esist nessasarily.

Anyway that is my unqualified opinion.

TEITZY
Jul 11th 2005, 10:57 AM
speaking of plants, I read in a science magazine that they might think that trees think. They did experiments that had interesting results. In a section of rain forest they introduced treeboring bugs to some of the trees. A time later the trees secreted a chemical that killed the insects. They then sampled the same chemical from the trees that were near the other trees but not infected with the bugs. None of the trees produced this chemical before the introduction. This led the scientists to wonder if trees have a way of communicating with one another to warn of danger. They said if that was true then we would have to rethink about plants being just inanimate objects.

This sounds a bit pantheistic/new age to me. This is the kind of thinking they use to justify the idea that trees and plants have the same value as human life (eg. killing a tree is the same as killing a person). This is a natural consequence of their belief that all is god and god is all. Below is a qoute from "The Answers Book" by Answers in Genesis:


The Bible makes a clear distinction between the status of plants and animals. People and animals are described in Genesis as having, or being. nephesh (Hebrew)—see Genesis 1:20, 21, 24 where nephesh chayyah is translated ‘living creatures’ and Genesis 2:7 where Adam became a 'living soul’ (nephesh chayyah). Nephesh conveys the basic idea of a ‘breathing creature’. It is also used widely in the Old Testament, in combination with other words, to convey ideas of emotions, feelings, etc. Perhaps nephesh refers to life with a certain level of consciousness. Plants do not have such nephesh, and so Adam eating a carrot did not involve death in the Biblical sense.


Cheers
Leigh

undertheblood
Jul 11th 2005, 11:36 AM
:) Saying that plantlife have some kind of concienceness and communication system is not paramount to Isiah 9:6 saying that they are gods, I didn't hear him say that. :)

Kahtar
Jul 11th 2005, 11:45 AM
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention animals as having souls. It does say they have spirits however. It is my 'guess' that man is the only one who has a soul.

God is body(son), soul(Father), and spirit(Holy Spirit), and so is man. Angels are spirit only. Animals are body and spirit. This is what the Bible indicates, at least.

undertheblood
Jul 11th 2005, 11:49 AM
:) If you think that the Son is only a body, well..... :) :) :)

Kahtar
Jul 11th 2005, 11:53 AM
:) If you think that the Son is only a body, well..... :) :) :)Who said that? :eek: :cool: :)

USMC
Jul 11th 2005, 01:58 PM
For the first part, I whole-heartedly agree with USMC answer, yes animals have souls. I think I disagree with want you said after that.

Does a plant have fear, happiness, love (albeit animal love), anger, and peace. No but an animal does experience these emotions, and after all that is what a soul produces, soul is that which feels.

I should have clarified. When I said animals have souls, I did not mean they have souls like we have. What they have can be called a soul, but it is is different than a human soul. And the spirit of a plant is different than the spirit of an animal. It is the same as that of an animal in that it sustains the life of the material part of the being, and ceased to exist at death, but it is unlike the spirit of an animal in other ways.

The soul of a human is like that of an angel in that it has an intellect, free will, and is rational. The soul of a dog does not possess these spiritual faculties in the same way man and angels to. Animals "choose", not by reasoning, but by the impluse of their nature. Their "choice" (if you can call it that) proceeds from their lower nature, instead of from the faculty of reason (unfortunately, sometimes we humans act similarly).

A plant has neither intellect and will (as humans do), nor the emotions of the lower nature (like animals do). The "spirit" of a plant could be described as simply a life giving force, which, like that of an animal, will cease when its earthly life ends.

Steve M
Jul 11th 2005, 04:20 PM
How about a scripture on the matter?

Ecc 3:21

(ASV) Who knoweth the spirit of man, whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast, whether it goeth downward to the earth?

The translations of this verse vary, actually. The King James seems to indicate the exact opposite, that we do know whether it goes down.

undertheblood
Jul 11th 2005, 06:16 PM
I'll go on record that animals have souls, but, unlike human souls.


Pro stance on animals having souls.
http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/philosophy/doanimal.htm

http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/tsnhod-08.html

Kahtar
Jul 11th 2005, 11:45 PM
http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/tsnhod-08.html
:cool: I stand corrected. (Guess even I have to be wrong sometimes:rolleyes: :lol: )

undertheblood
Jul 12th 2005, 12:25 AM
:) I'm wrong more times that you are!
Someone told Katherin Klulman (sp?) when she started her ministry, "What ever you do make sure you've got your Theology straight". Well I wonder how many of us haven't got our Theology straight. :)

C3BO
Jul 12th 2005, 07:54 AM
Well, there are at least 5 horses in Heaven, right?

undertheblood
Jul 12th 2005, 10:41 AM
Well, there are at least 5 horses in Heaven, right?
Good Point! We're not saying that animals on earth has a eternal exsistence in heaven, just that they have a feeling and emotional soul.


God is body(son), soul(Father), and spirit(Holy Spirit), and so is man. Angels are spirit only. Animals are body and spirit. This is what the Bible indicates, at least.One can't catagorize (sp?) them like that. If I was Rev. Finis Jennings Dake I'll probably say that all three has their own spirit, soul, and body, and that the Holy Spirit has a spirit, soul, and body of his own, not fleshly bodies, duh. These that make up the trinity are 3 personalities and just because we call something spirit, like God is spirit, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a body that may be touched - a spiritual body. God is not a disembodied spirit like demon.
In modern thinking, a spirit is like a vapor, a will of the wist, a ghost, do we truely understand a spirit. Just because we can't see it and touch it doesn't mean that it is not just as tangible in heaven as us.

C3BO
Jul 12th 2005, 10:53 AM
I can't say I really know what to think about this topic. Animals have such sublime love that they bring a little bit of Heaven into our life on earth.

It's hard to look at the picture next to your name Sojourner, and not hope that that puppy will never never go away!
I want one!

undertheblood
Jul 12th 2005, 10:58 AM
Thank you so much, and who knows maybe there is a afterlife for pets, I should would like to see my Jocko again (Poodle).

Kahtar
May 18th 2007, 01:09 AM
Ecclesiastes 3:21 poses an interesting question - "who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"
Thank you for the supporting verse. From this, there clearly is a spirit in animals.