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hdt
Oct 31st 2006, 07:02 PM
My spouse has a bit of an anger issue within him. We have sought out counceling, and it was brought up that he also suffers from lack of empathy. Its a hard combination for everyone. I do believe he is attempting to try to correct parts of it, and othertimes it seems he runs from it. Its such a strange situation to be in. I think what happened is something in the past - maybe childhood - was stuffed and forgotten about. I mean lets face it you don't grow up with the goal of being an angry person. For years it seemed like he had normal, healthy childhood. Within the first couple of years of marriage I found small cracks in that image, but he pushed them away as no biggie. I think with time he became harder for him to hide those cracks, and that frustrated him. As the years pasted it seemed like resentment towards the strangest items seemed to build within him. A situation in September seemed to spark the fuel that he seemed to holding inside, and the full wrath of his anger came to the surface in front of alot of family members. Scared all of us to death. He won't seek refuge in church or in God. I think he just wishes to push it back down again, and wants everyone to just ignore.

There are times in which I do pretty well, and other times I seem to almost break under the pressure. Its a real struggle to keep things above water with so much venom and contempt being thrown around, and at times I feel like I am sinking deeper and deeper down. I have done alot of work on myself as I have dealt with this issue within our family. I have also sought out help for our children. I don't believe in slamming the person, because it is not right! There are times tho that I have to address bad behavior - not the bad person - so we have the safety of actually having things being spoken about. As I told my MIL in response to the children - they can't have one parent blow and then have another mininize the effect and not validate the fear it brings into the family. Where are they going to go with those feelings if they can't come to me, and I have to be honest about them. I do remind them that he does love all of us, but he does has issues with his wrath. No one can deny it. He doesn't deny it. He tells people that I'm a very even tempered person, and I deal with things firmly but with care. LOL Kind of a strange thing to hear from your spouse when you feel that isn't working to help anything!

There are days I am strong than others I will admit that. I just can't seem to keep a steady flow of strength tho. Its like parts of me get chipped away, but I still keep going. I guess that would be my chain.

Thank you.

Diggindeeper
Oct 31st 2006, 11:39 PM
Hdt, you gave a lot of helpful information...but not quite enough, I don't think.

!- Does he seem to have outbursts of hostililty over things that would not matter much to other people?

2- Are you and your children expected to "walk on eggshells, without breaking them, because we don't want to upset daddy"?

3- Is he like a stick of dynamite, with the fuse lit, expected to explode any minute?

4- Do you fear that his outbursts could at any time cause you great embarrassment, or that he might lose control?

It appears to me that you are covering up, making the issue not so bad as it really is, and making excuses for him...ie: You said,

"I think what happened is something in the past - maybe childhood - was stuffed and forgotten about. I mean lets face it you don't grow up with the goal of being an angry person."

You said,
"As the years pasted it seemed like resentment towards the strangest items seemed to build within him. A situation in September seemed to spark the fuel that he seemed to holding inside, and the full wrath of his anger came to the surface in front of alot of family members. Scared all of us to death. He won't seek refuge in church or in God. I think he just wishes to push it back down again, and wants everyone to just ignore."

You said,
"There are times in which I do pretty well, and other times I seem to almost break under the pressure. Its a real struggle to keep things above water with so much venom and contempt being thrown around, and at times I feel like I am sinking deeper and deeper down."

You said much more that I could copy and paste...but listen, the fact is that there is such a thing as verbal abuse. And it Can get scary to those around the person who is the verbal abuser! And it is NOT acceptable. Period.

Have you ever came directly out and said to him, "Enough is enough! We are tired of being scared out of our skin by your outbursts. No longer will I accept it as 'normal' behavior! You and I are the pattern and examples for our children to follow. So, no more! You get help, or else."

Listen, you really are the "role models" for your children! Don't you see they could grow up with the idea that Dad is supposed to yell and be hostile at the least little thing, and Mama is supposed to calm the children
and make excuses for daddy's belligerent behavior.

Is he a Christian? Yes or no.

If he claims to be a Christian, where is fruit of the spirit?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
Galatians 5:22-23

You said, "Its like parts of me get chipped away, but I still keep going." There are some things that just are not acceptable, and verbal abuse is one of them!

I'm not praying for the Lord to give you strength to endure. I'm praying that he'll give you wisdom.

Judy

cheech
Nov 1st 2006, 02:45 AM
I commend you for looking past your husband's exterior and looking to his interior...which you can see hurt and pain from his outburst of anger.

There may be many reasons your husband is reacting this way:

1. It could stem from something in his past.
2. It could be something going on currently...maybe at work.
3. He could feel his hands are tied and he is unable to take care of the situation that is bothering him.
4. Unsure how to handle what is bothering him.

There is obviously something bothering your husband very much and he is keeping it in. People tend to let loose on those closest to them because they can't let loose on the ones who are really bothering them. Their pain and anger then comes out because they don't know how to release it or deal with it any other way.

It's good you sought counseling. If you aren't still doing it, you may want to go back to learn ways of dealing with your husband's anger especially if he won't go back.

As hard as it may be, continue trying to be compassionate to his situation. There is a reason for his pain and anger...finding out what that is will take alot of time and prayer. I agree, though, you and your children should not have to suffer or be the brunt of his anger (keep talking to him about this), that's why it's extremely important that he face his problems head on...and with God this is possible. Getting him to realize this though and to talk about his problems will be the a challenge. It seems as though it may be coming to a head especially when you mentioned that this outburst of anger was displayed in front of family members. Pray for him daily and for strength for yourself and children.

ComeLordJesus
Nov 1st 2006, 02:54 AM
Prays will be said for you. I pray God gives you HIS words to say at the correct time and keep you all safe.

I was too often not speaking up when my husband did these things too. As a result now my grown boys sometimes follow that anger action thinking it is normal for a man. My daughters have bad marriages because they don't want to be like I was............an enabler or whimp.

Maybe a pastor or someone can guide you through these tough times before the kids think this is normal for a husband to do.

God Bless:hug:

hdt
Nov 2nd 2006, 02:35 AM
[quote=Diggindeeper;1029985]Hdt, you gave a lot of helpful information...but not quite enough, I don't think.

!- Does he seem to have outbursts of hostililty over things that would not matter much to other people?

2- Are you and your children expected to "walk on eggshells, without breaking them, because we don't want to upset daddy"?

3- Is he like a stick of dynamite, with the fuse lit, expected to explode any minute?

4- Do you fear that his outbursts could at any time cause you great embarrassment, or that he might lose control?

He is capable of all the above. It seemed with the years he has got worse instead of better. I was even shocked when his mother said to me, "He used to be such a good boy when he was little, and he grew up to be a monster." I was shocked when she said it. She and many others had been mininizing his actions for years - handing him and myself excuses for it. Also reminding me to hold my tongue (angry tongue ;) ) in return, and that has been worked out - that was pretty much at the beginning of our marraige. I do call him on things, but he tends to get very defensive about it. It doesn't matter how you approach him. I have heard the nieghbors call him, "Mr. Right" as sarcasm, jokingly, and frustration at times. I don't say to much to them, because I know what they are getting at.

It appears to me that you are covering up, making the issue not so bad as it really is, and making excuses for him...ie: You said,

"I think what happened is something in the past - maybe childhood - was stuffed and forgotten about. I mean lets face it you don't grow up with the goal of being an angry person."

I'm don't think I am really covering up for him. I realize you don't just wake up one day and instantly CHANGE! :lol: I'm sure something happened with him at one time to change his mindset towards the world. I'm not justifying it at all - it isn't right. People do hide things for years - their own denial - and things tend to trigger and they are shaken loose.

You said,
"As the years pasted it seemed like resentment towards the strangest items seemed to build within him. A situation in September seemed to spark the fuel that he seemed to holding inside, and the full wrath of his anger came to the surface in front of alot of family members. Scared all of us to death. He won't seek refuge in church or in God. I think he just wishes to push it back down again, and wants everyone to just ignore."

You said,
"There are times in which I do pretty well, and other times I seem to almost break under the pressure. Its a real struggle to keep things above water with so much venom and contempt being thrown around, and at times I feel like I am sinking deeper and deeper down."

You said much more that I could copy and paste...but listen, the fact is that there is such a thing as verbal abuse. And it Can get scary to those around the person who is the verbal abuser! And it is NOT acceptable. Period.

I know what I'm dealing with. LOL Believe me! He admitted to our counselor and our children's counselor that he was verbally abusive. Myself and the therapist almost fainted when he did it! ;) He says he uses it as a tool to make people listen. If they don't do what he wishes he "cranks up the volume" as he puts it. We are currently working on him realizing that isn't working for one, and is ineffective two, and not acceptable three! He doesn't agree at this point.

Have you ever came directly out and said to him, "Enough is enough! We are tired of being scared out of our skin by your outbursts. No longer will I accept it as 'normal' behavior! You and I are the pattern and examples for our children to follow. So, no more! You get help, or else."

The counceling is the "or else" part. The counselor wishes to speak to us separately and together. After speaking to me separately he agrees with you that his 'anger' issue as they call it (can't say abuse because it gets people to defensive I believe) needs to be dealt with. He has a very entitled mindset, and is attempting to accept some of the messages the counselor gives. Hopefully in time he will deal with whatever is inside of him that makes him snap, and find more healthier ways of dealing with it. The choice as we know is up to him. I have been in my own therapy for a number of years now. I have found things in my past that may have enabled him to a point. LOL some of those were twisted religious beliefs that are not healthy for either party! I'm sure others were society's beliefs on the wife's role of keeping the peace. I received much needed clarity, and my hopes and prayers are that he does also.

Listen, you really are the "role models" for your children! Don't you see they could grow up with the idea that Dad is supposed to yell and be hostile at the least little thing, and Mama is supposed to calm the children
and make excuses for daddy's belligerent behavior.

One thing both counselors said (our and the children's) is that I have been very good at pointing out the bad and unacceptable behavior of Dad without stripping him down. I have always pointed out the bad behavior, and not the bad person. They pointed this out because they have found that alot of people get so broken in this type of senerio its hard to keep a handle on that. I know I have also had many talks to them about choices in life. How you have a choice to go one way or another. I made sure it was out of the blue, and we had talks about "anger person" and "happy person". How anger is a normal and healthy emotion, but there are times in life that people tend to use their anger to much. How their choices effect their lifes and outlooks at times. I also speak of happy person. How they also can get angry at times, but in a more balanced way. I wanted them to clearly know that is CHOICE not "the way it is". I also wanted the counselors there to help them in other areas that I wouldn't be suitable for.

Is he a Christian? Yes or no.

We talked about our faith before marraige. We were in the mist of moving a couple of times right when we got married, and never really got the chance to get plugged in to a church. It was a hectic time for both of us! Once we got settled he choose not to go. At that point I heard the "recovering catholic" term. I knew we went to church while growing up, and when he was a young adult, etc. He has faith in God, but he doesn't have much respect for organizationed religion. He does tho respect the fact that I do participate in church - and the children also - and never takes anything away from that.

If he claims to be a Christian, where is fruit of the spirit?

I'm not sure I can answer that. I'm not sure I am in the position to.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
Galatians 5:22-23

You said, "Its like parts of me get chipped away, but I still keep going." There are some things that just are not acceptable, and verbal abuse is one of them!

I'm not praying for the Lord to give you strength to endure. I'm praying that he'll give you wisdom.

Wisdom is indeed what I am after. I do believe I see a good man inside - I know I saw him once upon a time. I also pray that he sees the choices and the consequences that lay ahead. He is someone that needs the Lord more than most.

Judy

Diggindeeper
Nov 2nd 2006, 03:15 AM
Well, it seems you are on top of the situation, and going to counselling is certainly the wise thing to do.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd be doing just what you are doing, plus stay much in prayer! And in the word! Especially the book of Proverbs.

Here are two more scripture references that I hope can help:

Ephsians 6:4
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Colossians 3:18-21
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

Judy

hdt
Nov 2nd 2006, 03:41 AM
[quote=cheech;1030387]I commend you for looking past your husband's exterior and looking to his interior...which you can see hurt and pain from his outburst of anger.

There may be many reasons your husband is reacting this way:

1. It could stem from something in his past.
2. It could be something going on currently...maybe at work.
3. He could feel his hands are tied and he is unable to take care of the situation that is bothering him.
4. Unsure how to handle what is bothering him.

I'm sure it is a combination of all the above, and then I'm sure his health condition is antoher part of it. He was stricken with this condition when he was 17, and will suffer with it for his lifetime. I knew this going in - accepted it because I loved him - and was prepared to care for him if that is what was needed.

There is obviously something bothering your husband very much and he is keeping it in. People tend to let loose on those closest to them because they can't let loose on the ones who are really bothering them. Their pain and anger then comes out because they don't know how to release it or deal with it any other way.

It's good you sought counseling. If you aren't still doing it, you may want to go back to learn ways of dealing with your husband's anger especially if he won't go back.

He and I are still in counseling. I have been in counseling for a couple of years. I do agree with what you are saying about lashing out at loved ones - I think at times they believe it is because we are safe...ya know? The councelor did speak to him about examples of his behavior at work and such. He admited that if people backed down even a little bit he would mow them over. If they didn't - he would treat them with respect...LOL even if he did attempt to push a little still! Before you say it the one thing my husband would tell people when we got married was, "She isn't a pushover! I like that! It would never come to this, but I like the fact that if I got in her face and she knew I was wrong she wouldn't back off. She would stand firm and tell me so." For the most part he is correct on that end - I have never been that type - althought I'm not in the IN YOUR FACE type ;) . I think when the cracks started to show with him I was young and immature should have just walked away from some of the fights.....and didn't. With age and wisdom I learned when that time was. Unfortunately, at that point I had some bitterness and resentment towards him also. The name calling and the cut downs towards my personhood was his defense used instead of attempting to see my side of things. He told his twin and his mother that it ticked him off that I was right most of the time. :hmm: I'm not so sure about that part tho! He is an intelligent man, but he tends to use emotional responses instead of sitting back to think before acting. I remember telling him once when you know you are feeling like that - play like the VCR's PAUSE button and stop for a moment before acting. :lol: He liked that picture in his mind, and said I was correct he needed to do that. Later he would say he just couldn't. I'm sure it is partly a self control issue.

At this point I can tell he is hinting at the cost of therapy to try to stop it. The counselor said he may feel cornered, and he need to be careful so he doesn't lash out. He is getting alot of family pressure (not me - others) to continue. They have told him he is on the road to destruction if he doesn't. So I guess it is support and pressure at the same time huh? I just hope he sees things for the right reasons, and doesn't feel pressured to just "play the game" for a while. I think that is what he might have done when I met him. I sure didn't see this part of him before we were married. The only first hint I can remember was right before the wedding he got very testy. I figured wedding pressures.

As hard as it may be, continue trying to be compassionate to his situation. There is a reason for his pain and anger...finding out what that is will take alot of time and prayer. I agree, though, you and your children should not have to suffer or be the brunt of his anger (keep talking to him about this), that's why it's extremely important that he face his problems head on...and with God this is possible. Getting him to realize this though and to talk about his problems will be the a challenge. It seems as though it may be coming to a head especially when you mentioned that this outburst of anger was displayed in front of family members. Pray for him daily and for strength for yourself and children.

I know we have all been praying for him. I have also been making a extra effort since this counseling started - I know it is extra hard on him. He doesn't like being called on things by the counselor. It is validating for me in some ways - not vengeful like so please don't think that. I have learned to walk away when he is in the mode of not hearing anything. He has got a look and attitude and you know NO matter what you say or do...it just wont' be good enough. I just let it go and tell him the conversation has ended...and I leave. Its like the unrational side of him just takes over, and logic and respect aren't part of the equation. Its the strangest thing, and can be very hurtful. The counselor got him to admit that part, and told him he should apologize at least. He said that if he does he feels that people will take that as a green light to mow over him. Myself, personally that sounds like pride and maybe a little of the stupid stereotypical junk that society throws at males about HOW they need to be. BLECK! He has made a couple of 1/2 hearted attempts since then tho! :rofl: Its nice not to be the only one apologizing! :D He did mention the councelor that he hates when I walk away. He said that I was avoiding life and running from problems. The counselor told him in his mindset at times there can be no resolution, and that my walking away is healthy for me. Its called "emotional detactment". I have to detact myself from the conversation so I don't get so hurt. It was nice to hear that I am doing something healthy! :D I have been doing that for years, and my own counselor said it was okay. There are times in which you must walk away because things tend to esculate. Not good!

I feel I have had alot of growth within myself. I'm not saying that I dont' have some more to go of course! One thing that I think helped me was that people didn't place extra blame, shame and critism on me. Didn't accuse me of not honoring my husband automatically. Didn't tell me I didn't respect his headship, and wasn't submissive enough. They didn't switch things around back on me, and add to my load. At one time I had so much shame, anger and bitterness. I only shared little pieces here and there - the not so bad stuff to see what people would say. If they tromped all over that ....... I knew I would withdraw within myself. LOL didn't know what my next move would be! It was my feeling post to see if I was this awful person he projected onto me. They didn't. They listened and were compassinate. They took the time to validate my hurts, and try to help, and listened when I told them they didn't understand the mindset of him. LOL I never ran unto anyone like this either...didn't think they would listen, but they did...even with my bitterness. I think they brought me back into the right mindset with their compassion. LOL even tho they had to remind me of a couple of things! :blush: To be honest I think that is why I don't HATE him to this day. I think they had the right delivery. Its sad when I see others not getting the same treatment. I know they must be withdrawing also. Its a strange world when you live in denial of both your issues. I'm praying for growth for him, and additional wisdom and growth for me! If growth happens.....wisdom follows.

I do still struggle tho. I'm trying to save the bits and peices that I got back. I pray that I continue on this path. I pray that I'm successful. So much is up to him in some arenas, and I cant bend much more. I believe myself to be patience person, but at times that bitterness and resentment does surface. I know I will have to deal with the anger over the treatment of me in years past next. LOL that I'm not looking forward to! Like my husband.......you can't stuff forever!

hdt
Nov 2nd 2006, 03:47 AM
Prays will be said for you. I pray God gives you HIS words to say at the correct time and keep you all safe.

I was too often not speaking up when my husband did these things too. As a result now my grown boys sometimes follow that anger action thinking it is normal for a man. My daughters have bad marriages because they don't want to be like I was............an enabler or whimp.

Maybe a pastor or someone can guide you through these tough times before the kids think this is normal for a husband to do.

God Bless:hug:

Its a hard balance. I don't think people realize how hard. If they did they were react differently. I think it is ignorance personally.

We are currently looking for a new church. I hope to find good role models for them, and I hope with counseling also.......they will be okay. I pray that I don't they don't continue the cycle that tends to carry on for generations. I hope they are end of that.

hdt
Nov 2nd 2006, 04:26 AM
Well, it seems you are on top of the situation, and going to counselling is certainly the wise thing to do.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd be doing just what you are doing, plus stay much in prayer! And in the word! Especially the book of Proverbs.

Here are two more scripture references that I hope can help:

Ephsians 6:4
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Colossians 3:18-21
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

Judy

Thank you Judy. At times I wonder if I am doing "as it is fit in the Lord" part! :blush: I'm sure trying and praying so! :cry: I don't want to lose my kids in the process. I think they are my first concern. I see those two little angels, and I see if things won't change....it won't be good. I can see my son turning from my husband and blowing him out of his life completely. I can see my daugther slowing drifting away. I don't want that. I want everyone to get to a certain level of acceptance and respect. I don't think the road ahead of us will be easy. I think as my son gets older he is going to call my husband on things my husband will NOT wish to deal with. It could be past things or present over the top statements. He is like that. I guess because he is not yet in his "almost" teens years I'm not worrying about him as much as my daugther. My son will call him on things, and start shouting bible verses at him! :o about how his actions are sinful! It does make my husband back off and stand still tho! Its a hard line to tell him to stop when you don't blame him! (bad me I know) That boy tho does that the biggest heart! Its sad to hear, "That is sin tho Daddy!" :cry: My daugther isn't as bold. I think she is like me a couple of years ago - struggling with the anger over things as they are. Being unheard and feeling unimportant. I won't repeat some of the items he has thrown at them, but BOY did I get all over him! That plain isn't right! :mad:

I know they struggle with loving him and trying to accept his faults. LOL we can discuss what are my faults - and of course what they feel are my faults (like early bedtime for bad behaviors :rofl: )! :saint: What can I say! He does love them. I know he does. I just don't think he sees the damage he is causing. I'm not sure I am the right one to point that out at times either! :hmm: There are certain issues the wife needs to try to balance distance with, and allow others to continue on with. :pray: I'm very scared.

People say you are doing the right things.......but I just don't know at times. I realize I can be stronger than most, so I can't imagine what others are going thru. I pray for them also, and also their spouses and children.

hdt
Nov 2nd 2006, 04:27 AM
sorry for dumping tonight guys. that wasn't my intention.

cheech
Nov 4th 2006, 10:36 PM
That's what this forum is for...dumping, venting and what not :) Sometimes it's more of a comfort to know there are those that have been through what you are going through or something similar. Here is where you check in and say how you are doing. If you need prayer, we pray for you. If you need a shoulder to cry on, we offer our shoulders. If you are happy and need to express it...by all means do it! :hug:

hdt
Nov 7th 2006, 01:55 PM
As I have mentioned I have made counseling available to my kids for a while. Its comes from a couple of a difference souces, but I knew that it was needed.

The H is gone this week, and will be returning on Friday evening. My son had his session yesterday, and when it was done she wanted to speak with me. It was words to the effect that he was relieved he was gone, because it made him safe when he was gone. :cry: I think this comment stemmed from him having to help with homework one night due to me being gone because other family issues one night. He became overly frustrated because he was struggling with some of his spelling words. That is the gist of it anyway.

On the one hand H has been struggling badly with his healthy recently. He had to quit all of his meds to do a high liver level on his last blood test. He takes a blood test every month due to his meds to control his medically condition. Until they knew what was causing it he had to stop, and that effected his quality of life. His health went downhill, and its hard to see him when he struggles just walk etc. I'm not handing him an excuse. I just trying to be fair here. We also have a biopse scheduled and an ultrasound for his liver to see what kind of damage we may be looking at. The children dont' know about that part because they tend to worry themselves to death - esplly my daugther. We made the decision to wait until we find what we are dealing with before sitting them down. I think when people of serious illiness at times tend to concentrate on their pain more than others things. I'm not saying that as a cutdown - it just is what it is. I can't say I blame them, but on the other hand his reaction was not acceptable.

I have been struggling with calling our counselor, and asking him how I should handle the news. As angry as he gets at times it sounds like he is also his worse enemy. Hardest on him most of all. I wasn't sure if it would be better for the counselor to bring this subject up - being that he is a man and all - then for me because I know he will get very defensive. It needs to brought up and discussed, and that will happen...just not sure how to approach the subject.

I will call my mother today, and ask her advice. She is a gift in my life because she can detact herself from the situation so well, and is able to give opinions/views/advice without getting overly defensive etc because I'm her child. I'm glad she can do this because she is a very intelligent person, and she is loving towards everyone. She can be firm as well, and that part I like because I don't have to worry about wishy washy. :lol: I know my MIL would like to know also, but she got news yesterday that her mother may die soon. Her husband is struggling with his dementia, and diabetes and is a HUGE handful for her! She never cries and yet was in tears yesterday when I spoke with her. I think I will let her know later - I think she has enough on her plate right now. I know she asked me to let her know, but right now I think she has enough on her plate.

Its very hard to see your kids struggle with their feelings towards him. On the one hand I know they love him very much, but on the other hand he is not safe for them. They will speak about that unprompted and that to me says volumes. The sad part is he refuses to see, and will not deal with it at all. Just lets us know if we would do things this way he wouldn't have to be this way. The 'things' you can never tell what they will be, or if the conditions of handling it changed. I have teased him in the past telling him, "When you buy the crystal ball I will be able to figure it out then!" :P He just rolled his eyes and walked off. :confused Our counselor has spoke to him about this, but he tells him "We should just know. We have known him long enough." :hmm: Its hard to teach him and tell him that he is unpredictable, and everyone that knows him will say that to a point. He just can't see.

:pray: for us finding the way of approaching this. :pray: that he will hear and take it as intended. :pray: for the children. :pray: for his health!

Thank you.

Jesusinmyheart
Nov 8th 2006, 10:23 PM
Wow hdt, you've got a lot going on, and let me tell you, you're a storng woman, and i realize it is because you are also leaning on God.

This part of your previous post really struck a nerve with me:


One thing that I think helped me was that people didn't place extra blame, shame and critism on me. Didn't accuse me of not honoring my husband automatically. Didn't tell me I didn't respect his headship, and wasn't submissive enough. They didn't switch things around back on me, and add to my load. <SNIP>
Its sad when I see others not getting the same treatment. I know they must be withdrawing also. Its a strange world when you live in denial of both your issues. I'm praying for growth for him, and additional wisdom and growth for me! If growth happens.....wisdom follows.

I can relate to your issue only that my husband tends to implode rather than explode, and instead of getting verbally abusive, he gets withdrawn, sulky and plays the blame game of how i am out to critizise him.

He does tend to have no patience and yell quite a bit.

Like your husband i feel it is something in his childhood, where he feels he was mistreated repeatedly, even if it is only through the make up of his own skewed perspective.

I am not sure how much help i can be with your issue, but i believe that standing up for yourself and the kids in all fairness was probably the best thing you could have done.

I commend you for hanging in there after all this time-it's been a tad over 10 years for us now. And it's been a rollercoaster of a ride.

I want to let you know if you ever want to vent on a more personal level, feel free to pm me.

Victorious
Nov 9th 2006, 12:52 AM
Having worked as a victim advocate for 10 yrs., the probability of anger and abuse escalating both in intensity and frequency is the norm. I suggest contacting a local domestic violence center in your area. All of them have 24-hr. hotlines and you can discuss your concerns anonymously. Most also have small groups that have proven a very effective support in this type of situation. These centers understand the dynamics of anger and most also have groups for male and female abusers.

If you cannot find the number for one in your area, most police depts. have them.

cheech
Nov 9th 2006, 04:53 AM
Now that i've read your last post...I can see some of why your husband has had his outbursts...if he is struggling hard with this health, that could be a big factor. When we don't feel well, everything irritates us more than normal.

It could very well be your husband is not feeling well at all and is quite worried about it. This definitely explain his quick temper. No, you guys don't deserve it...but I will admit that when I'm ill, my outbursts are are quick and all common sense flies out the window.

We had a guy come into our office the other day....for quite a while now he's been in pain...needs an operation but can't afford it. He is always ok with me but can become very irritated when things don't go right and we are at the end of his irritation. Today I told my boss about him coming in but added about his pain and how that was the reason he is the way he is when he comes in. We had to look past the irritation he was expressing and understand why he was expressing it.

I'm not saying that is the only reason as it's obviously not, but I bet his illness makes his irritability worse...with a dose of worry on top.

Majestic_Mayhem
Dec 2nd 2006, 02:33 AM
My spouse has a bit of an anger issue within him. We have sought out counceling, and it was brought up that he also suffers from lack of empathy. Its a hard combination for everyone. I do believe he is attempting to try to correct parts of it, and othertimes it seems he runs from it. Its such a strange situation to be in. I think what happened is something in the past - maybe childhood - was stuffed and forgotten about. I mean lets face it you don't grow up with the goal of being an angry person. For years it seemed like he had normal, healthy childhood. Within the first couple of years of marriage I found small cracks in that image, but he pushed them away as no biggie. I think with time he became harder for him to hide those cracks, and that frustrated him. As the years pasted it seemed like resentment towards the strangest items seemed to build within him. A situation in September seemed to spark the fuel that he seemed to holding inside, and the full wrath of his anger came to the surface in front of alot of family members. Scared all of us to death. He won't seek refuge in church or in God. I think he just wishes to push it back down again, and wants everyone to just ignore.

There are times in which I do pretty well, and other times I seem to almost break under the pressure. Its a real struggle to keep things above water with so much venom and contempt being thrown around, and at times I feel like I am sinking deeper and deeper down. I have done alot of work on myself as I have dealt with this issue within our family. I have also sought out help for our children. I don't believe in slamming the person, because it is not right! There are times tho that I have to address bad behavior - not the bad person - so we have the safety of actually having things being spoken about. As I told my MIL in response to the children - they can't have one parent blow and then have another mininize the effect and not validate the fear it brings into the family. Where are they going to go with those feelings if they can't come to me, and I have to be honest about them. I do remind them that he does love all of us, but he does has issues with his wrath. No one can deny it. He doesn't deny it. He tells people that I'm a very even tempered person, and I deal with things firmly but with care. LOL Kind of a strange thing to hear from your spouse when you feel that isn't working to help anything!

There are days I am strong than others I will admit that. I just can't seem to keep a steady flow of strength tho. Its like parts of me get chipped away, but I still keep going. I guess that would be my chain.

Thank you.

It's a good thing that you are even tempered because you will be more helpful if any thing. The last thing you want to happen is to lose your temper at the same time he loses his. If he has an angry out burst the best thing to do is stay out of his way and go some where quite and start praying for him.

Your prayers will do more help for him if any thing. I wonder if the lack of empathy may have to do with the over all hurt that he feels inside? Usually bitterness can contribute to a part of that.

In order for him to heal God needs to get to the root of the problem that has caused his anger because his anger stems from a hurt that he had buried and hasn't resolved yet. This is where your prayers can come in handy and maybe you can keep a prayer journal?

What ever is setting him off can be the results of something that is pushing his buttons and often it could be something that reminds him of something from that hurt.

When a person is hurting often to us looking inward at them doesn't make sense to us but to the hurting person it makes sense to them because they are the ones who are experiencing the pain.

Love him with the love of God and do something special for him that shows him how much you care. Maybe give him a hug once in a while to show him that no matter what you care. That's if he is into recieving hugs?

Has he ever had panic attacks before? If yes then panic attacks come from not feeling safe or not having those emotional needs met by parents.

What are some of his favorite things? Do something that he likes to do with in reason of course because you are the spiritual leader since he isn't saved yet. Let's hope he will come around to his saving grace.

I under stand what anger does because I am dealing with some of that my self and that's why I could understand your post. I don't have a very huge trust level with people because so much has happened to me. I want to take things slow out here.

Music is good and often that can help as I have found my self when ever I feel a certain way I put on some music or read something or do something to take my mind of it or write it down creatively.

I will pray for your family.

KarenTX
Dec 2nd 2006, 04:10 AM
Hi, hdt. :hug: I'll admit that I have not read all of each post, but this sounds a lot like what I was dealing with in my home as well. Have any of the counselors suggested a personality disorder such as borderline, or narcissistic? Many of the examples you've posted sound very similar.

I was told with two years of intense counseling, things might (no guarantee) improve, but mine was not willing to go. Of course, every situation and person is different. :)

If I can help clarify anything or answer any questions, let me know, and if I'm way off base (you can do a search for common traits of these disorders) then let me offer my apologies up front. I also have some great books and websites I could provide you with, if you're interested.

Hang in there! :hug:

hdt
Dec 2nd 2006, 07:04 PM
I wrote a poem years ago - at least 5 years I think, and I go back to it and remind myself how lost I was back then. I'm not saying all the issues have been resolved, but I have found with much searching, pondering, education, prayer and study, and help from others to view things a bit different.

I have come a LONG way from when this poem was written, and a couple of places have used it in presentations of how people can feel about things. It is strange how life views can change. I still feel at times some of the items in this poem, but I dont' feel as broken.

I Can't By: ME! LOL A number of years ago!

He comes in that day and you feel your stomach ache.
You shudder and he shames and you wonder what you say.
You know you must say something, but the words do not come.
You been there before, and itís never undone.

You sit at the table with your children in tow
One glass of juice or a noodle does fall.
The yelling begins, and the tantrums our show
Words not from him are mentioned to solve

You canít say anything to make the hurt go away.
Silence does happen, but you donít want to stay.
Your children are hurting, and he still isnít nice.
You wait for that moment to calm and make nice.

Dinner is done and the dishes put away
Your start the next shift, and go on with your day.
You get the kids settled, and you find your little safe spot.
Inching and wondering, Why is your world so shot?

Then he comes down to greet you with a smile on his face.
He acts like nothing has happened with no shame or disgrace
You sit there wondering what message did you send?
I donít want you here and I shouldnít have to bend.

He stands there wanting the distance to be gone
He pushes closer and closer and you just canít respond.
What do you do? What do you say?
He pushes and pushes and never goes away.

You canít force closeness to the one youíve lost
You canít pressure trust when we never know how you will respond.
You canít intimidate into intimacy with someone you say you love
You canít have it both ways and think you have won.

Days later problems happen and you just want to hide
You donít want to talk because it is never very nice.
You wait for the crowning moment nice and relaxed,
You really need to speak to him and you canít hold back.

It starts is real slow and you try to keep pace,
But the explosion soon starts right in your face.
Nothing is nice!
Nothing is fair!
Itís all your fault and he makes that perfectly clear.
He refuses to help fix or even be kind
He treats you like the enemy and your forced to resign.

As you slowly retreat you have strong feelings of doom.
How could this happen did I talk to soon?
Did I say it wrong, or have a look on my face
I donít understand why Iím such a disgrace.

You find a safe place to work on the game plan.
You fix that problem and never with him.
You handle the issue Ė at least parts that you can.
You look over what happened, and you remain mad.

Evening soon comes and you retreat to your bed.
He comes in and comes over and you just want to gag.
He kisses your face and then strokes your back.
You want to get up and leave and then youíre pulled back.

You canít force closeness to the one you have lost
You canít pressure trust when you can not resolve.
You canít intimidate into intimacy with someone you love
You canít have it both ways and think you have won.

After years of belittling and verbal attacks
You find it hard to get your self esteem back.
You search for the answer and fix you still need.
Until you have realized that you really need to flee.

Nothing will change
Nothing will be good
Nothing will happen until you are gone.
You live in denial with all you have left
Then finally hear the ďsnapĒ of that old camelís back.

You fear the reactions of family and friends
Will they take your side or try to befriend him.
They will think you the wimp
Will you lose their respect
For trying to keep peace for so long
And for finally stopping to fight back.

You work to improve yourself
To change your way of thinking
You fight the doubts without even blinking
You sit and worry if you have really done it.
Or if he is right and you will really plummet.

What will he say?
How will he react?
Will in be nice or some sort of attack.

You hear the sad story of how sorry he is
He has seen the errors of his ways
And now the change can begin.
You hesitate a little and wonder what is right
That hesitation now starts a new kind of fight.

Always Remember when the new this assault on your back:

You canít force closeness to the one you have lost
You canít pressure trust when we never know how you will respond.
You canít intimidate into intimacy with someone you loved
You canít have it both ways and think you have won.

Keep saying:

You canít force closeness to the one you have lost
You canít pressure trust when you can not resolve.
You canít intimidate into intimacy with someone you love
You canít have it both ways and think you have won.

hdt
Dec 3rd 2006, 02:32 AM
When a person is hurting often to us looking inward at them doesn't make sense to us but to the hurting person it makes sense to them because they are the ones who are experiencing the pain.

Love him with the love of God and do something special for him that shows him how much you care. Maybe give him a hug once in a while to show him that no matter what you care. That's if he is into recieving hugs?

Has he ever had panic attacks before? If yes then panic attacks come from not feeling safe or not having those emotional needs met by parents.

What are some of his favorite things? Do something that he likes to do with in reason of course because you are the spiritual leader since he isn't saved yet. Let's hope he will come around to his saving grace.



He has not had panic attacks that I know of. I know what they are because my father used to have them. I know when things are high aneixty he tends to get 'dictator'. My MIL came and got him one day when his younger brother was placed in the hospital. He was dicating to her how they need to speed things along because emergency rooms cost to much money, how his insurance isn't the best so lets get him OUT as soon as possible. He was going on and on and his mother finally had to remind him that they are NOT in control at this point, and the money issues have their place but NOT now! They get him to the room in the hospital, and his mother starts to place his brother's things in the closet. He starts on her again about how people steal from hospitals all the time, and you can't just LEAVE his stuff here, etc. From her phone call it was quite exhausting. I reminded her of how he gets when these things happen. I realized a long time ago I will have to be the cooler head at times. I remember once when we had to hospitize our daugther. She had never been sick, and the first time (over 1 year old) BOOM she did it good ya know! :lol: Anyway the doctors were talking spinal tap because they were not sure what was going on. I told them we need to rule out everything else before I would allow that on her. Come to find out a simple blood test gave us answers. He was SO upset over my comment he accused me of not caring about our daugther's best interests, or if she died. :mad: I knew the procedure was overkill, and I realized something was wrong but I wasn't going to allow them to do this without other things first. You just dont' place an 1 year old in that position ya know? I got wise in time, and just allow him to rant. Make the decisions because he is unable at that point, and go on! Once he calms down he agrees with me. :hmm:

His favorite thing to do is hunting. LOL Sorry I just can't see me in a tree ready to shoot something! That idea gives me to the major icks! I realize there is alot more to it than that, and I have learned alot about nature and game control. I think that department of the government may be the best organized to be honest! I don't think people realize that their are no natural predators in the forest anymore, and if hunters were not there the food supply would dry up and they would strave to death instead. He is very good at safety, and when we have to much meat - it goes to a local homeless shelter! I support his hobby, and have got him books, magazines, supplies etc. He never hears me complain when he wants to leave for a long weekend with his buddies either. I think it does him good! If he fishes I will partcipate! I love fishing! ;)

The affection thing can be tricky. I will give him a hug here and there, and kiss him of course! What he never realizes is if he beats us up as a family all day there is alot of resentment, etc built up. If you can't resolve things it is very hard to be very affectionate. He doesn't see the connection. I realize men are different, but he thinks ladies should be like them.

To be honest when I stopped my certain 'victim' (for a lack of better word here) mindset, and viewed him differently I saw alot of what I didn't see clearly before. When I walk away when he is still ranting because I'm done I have learned to turn off my ears also so I don't get hurt. When I learned to take his comments less personally, because I knew he was on his rampage things changed for me. It was strange how my mindset and my view of him changed completely. When I learned the world didn't view me, and God didn't view me as he did things changed for me big time!

I have tried at times to remind him what we have talked about in sessions. I don't get in his face and demand! LOL as if that would work anyway! :rolleyes: I think I have learned alot about patience, and I have learned alot about myself in the past couple of years. I'm very Thankful for my mindset change, and pray for him to see things differently also in time. I don't think our marriage would have survived thus far if something didnt' change with one of us!

cheech
Dec 11th 2006, 03:39 PM
hdt...just checking in to see how things are going or if you've seen any improvement. :hug:

hdt
Dec 12th 2006, 02:04 AM
Last week was interesting I guess! ;)

I attend a group every Friday morning for 2 hours. Its a therapy group, and in July they had us do a goal sheet that they would keep track of for a year. I guess a visual to show our progress. This last Friday we got them back to make additional notes.

My goal was finanical independence. I wanted to find a specialist for my son, and help to curve his condition. I wanted to get my resume done, and get some interviewing in. I had a goal in mind for my salary. I wanted to work out child care, etc. It all tied together.

I started on 1 from zero to 10. I saw that goal of finanical independence, and I knew I had not accomplished this. I didn't give myself a upper grade, because I don't even have a job yet! No interviews have happened, and seeing that goal sheet just about crushed me. I have decided with my husband's health history, and knowing it will get worse I will go back to a regular job. I have owned my own small company for the last 11 years.

I didn't want to increase my grade because of this. I see that job as a turning point in my life, and I can see things turning around and feel better about ME! I will contribute the way I want to, and I will have a better sense of accomplishment. I have always LOVED to work! I can stop his comments that he tells the kids, "She doesn't give any money for the household - its all my doing! She contibutes nothing!" That isn't true and he knows it. I hear these comments from them here and there, and it really ticks me off! I remember the other day the kids made some smarty pants remark about how I didn't buy something because I used Dad's money - so its really HIS! http://forums.crosswalk.com/image/s6.gif I'm well aware he makes more money, but its not like I don't contribute anything. He has no right telling the kids this. I also know in time his health is going to stop him from making any money at all. The finanical burden will be completely on me. There are tons of reason I want this job, and another one would be the fact he took out a second credit card - charged it up - and now needs extra cash to make the payments. Funny how that is NEVER brought up! http://forums.crosswalk.com/image/s13.gif http://forums.crosswalk.com/image/s7.gif

My therapist was telling me - why won't you move yourself up. I told her I had NOT accomplished my goal! She mentioned other things within that goal sheet that I had. I really didn't care about those. I dont' have a job. I don't feel I am out from under his thumb. I still feel very vulerable, and I want my independence in this manner back! It will give me and my family a sense of security. I didn't live up to it! She told me this is a yearly goal sheet, and you are to mark your progress. I just couldn't give me that extra push to the next number. It didn't feel right.

"What voices from the past are you listening to hdt? Who is in your head telling you that you are not getting anywhere?"

That took me by surprise. I would guess alot of people's voices. LOL I mean I don't remember anyone really being all that thrilled with my accomplishments. They always told me it could be more. I feel so overwhelmed at times, because I can't live up to their standards. I can't reach those goals, and at times I just plain give up.

"Is it the voices from the past - that parentified child? Or its the voice of your husband?"

I couldn't answer here. I didn't know. I'm sure it was a combination of people, and my habit patterns of knowing the goal has NOT been met so its still not good enough. I told them I hear voices from all of them at times, and I feel so overwhelmed and so broken down. I started to cry a bit, but stopped myself. I realize how vulerable that made me look. How completely insecure I am. How NOT confident I really am. I just put it all out there, and I just never felt good about doing that ever! I have been pushing myself to do this, but I need to step out of my comfort zone. I need to allow my feelings to surface, and say them to someone else but me and God. LOL He is also one I have trouble saying it to! I realize that sounds completely silly. At times I do and there is no effort - its just flows. Other times I don't want to say anything - not even to myself.

I think that is part of my stuffing pattern. I have been trying NOT to stuff! Its hard to tell people how I feel. I have no clue why - I think I was programed that way. My true inner feelings - they are locked up because I feel like I would be a fool to turn them loose. I guess I should say the illogical feelings inside! LOL people know when I am happy or sad about things at times. THey just don't know the depth of those feelings. I don't show deep. I have been trying tho. I used to have depth, but I guess after being burned so many times by opening up and those thoughts used against me.....I stopped.

One the one hand I know what they were telling me is true. I have found my son a specialist, and he is seeing a 'talking doctor' as he puts it. I have finished my resume, and cover letter and I have been sending it out. There were some others things I have done.

One lady said to me, "You accomplished the things you could control hdt. You can't accomplish things you have no control over at times. There is not magical way of making them happen. Its not your fault there is no interviews, and that job hasn't been landed yet. You ARE working to make that happen. You are doing things to help that along."

Yet I don't have a job. Not even a nibble. Its depressing. An interview even without a job offer would make me feel that maybe this train has left the station, and it will start rolling now. They talked me into giving me that 2 that day. Not sure I deserve it, but I will take it I guess.

I had my celebrate recovery that night also. It sounds like they did a HUGE push at the church, because we had about 5 new people there. There was more of an introduction that night than study. Introduction to the program that is. When they asked for prayer requests toward the end I finally made my move! :lol: I asked for prayers for my husband. He is a very angry man, and he seems intent on tearing our home apart because something rooted within him. I asked for prayers of control for myself and the kids as we all struggle along this road to help each other. I couldn't stay for the feedback - had to pick up kids from their program. That was very releasing tho.

hdt
Dec 17th 2006, 03:31 AM
My group and celebrate recovery went much better this week. I didn't feel as down I guess, and I did do things to make sure my mindset changed from last week. I did alot of reading in my bible, and online devotionals, etc. I looked at life a bit different. I guess everyone has their days, weeks, etc. ;)

This week started off with a BANG! I was sitting eating lunch with my cat talking to me (eating tuna :lol: ), and the Christmas tree came tumbling down and missed me by about 6 inches. My H had thrilled the children with this 12 foot tree! I couldn't do anything to move the stupid thing - it weight a TON! I had to wait for my H to get home to help. He was really ticked off, and told me I had to do something to make it fall. Trees don't fall by themselves. I told him I was eating lunch when it happened, and he accused me of lieing to him. I will admit I popped my cork and said, "Maybe it was the person that placed it in the stand!". I got up and left early to pick my son up from tutoring then. I just knew my mouth wouldn't stop! For some reason I realize he does this out of frustration - even tho its NOT right - but other days I have to admit I snap. The next day I called my neighbor to help us get the tree into the stand again. My H decided to cut the tree down a couple of feet. My neighbor commented that the bark was extremely soft, and he may wish to wedge it a bit more - it may fall again. I have had fake trees all my life, and I really don't know much about real ones. I guess the soft bark makes sense. My son commented to me, "Mom I knew it wasn't your fault! You were just eating lunch!" I thanked him and changed the subject. I knew that would tick my H off if it continued - it wasnt' worth it!

I got braver at church in the celebrate recovery class. I took my next step. They asked for introductions again because more new people came this week. LOL I think this is a transitional period! We started a new book, and they had an introduction to this section. It shorted the actually meeting time again, but not as much as last time. I told them I have been struggling with my emotionally and verbally abusive husband for a while now. I scared for him because he is in denial of his angry issues. At the end of the class one of the ladies came up to me, and told me that she is in a similiar situation. We chatted for a bit, and I gave her some good information I had found in the past to educate herself more. I told her I found that education really helped me with my growth, brought me out of my denial and made me face things I needed to. As my concentration on him drifting a bit, and more concentration on me happened - more growth still. My folks had always told me churches are to support people in all crisis of their lifes. I had believed them, but I did some research on abuse and faith - it scared me to death. I told her that I started a blog on this subject, and it seems I get more and more attention from it. I don't speak of my personal life - just the issues. Its an educational tool only. I wanted to collect actually helpful information on this subject, and not stuff from people, minstries etc that clearly had no clue to the dynamics. I told her I promised myself - no more hiding. If my church doesn't going to accept my situation, and help support me - try to see the dynamics and struggle along with me....I don't need them. I will go somewhere else. I'm not looking for a YES MAN! LOL! Just listen. Come to find out this lady went to school with my counselor from the center. She has spoke to her a couple of times, and maybe dipped her toe into her relationship with her at lunch etc. She is hestate to really go to the same center because of her. I guess I can understand that, but on the other hand - they have helped me so much. They helped my personal growth, helped me out of denial, helped me with acceptance of how things are, encouraged my spiritual growth, supported me in my journey with my blog, and told me to keep looking for a church! THEY knew it was important to me. DV centers don't talk divorce - they talk safety and help. Its strange how those stereotypes get started!

I have a private email I use for my blog, and some boards I attend. LOL it gets confusing with my business/personal one! I recently was contacted, and praised about my blog from a gentleman named Scot McKnight a professor of religious studies at North Park University in Chicago. He authored a number of books, and is asked to speak also. He wrote me recently to tell me that he liked by blog, and told me was going to mention it on his site. I was like WOW!


A Christmas word about bloggers: humility (http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2006/11/22/a-call-for-humble-bloggers/) and wisdom (http://trevinwax.wordpress.com/2006/12/13/bloggers-are-a-part-of-the-problem/). This from a wise, young blogger.
Hereís a blog about abuse and faith (http://eaandfaith.blogspot.com/). Bookmark it.

The hits on my blog today went thur the ROOF!

The best part? He called me YOUNG! http://www.drirene.com/catbox/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif WOO HOO!

Under Weekly Meanderings (http://www.jesuscreed.org/?p=1783#comments)

I think I am back on track for some portions. LOL waiting for the rest to follow.

cheech
Dec 17th 2006, 05:30 AM
Well congrats on moving to the next step in CR! I know it's hard but it will be so helpful!

Your Christmas tree story had me rolling :lol: although I know it was frustrating. Something you said had me thinking of me and now what my daughter is going through:


That took me by surprise. I would guess alot of people's voices. LOL I mean I don't remember anyone really being all that thrilled with my accomplishments. They always told me it could be more. I feel so overwhelmed at times, because I can't live up to their standards. I can't reach those goals, and at times I just plain give up.


I couldn't answer here. I didn't know. I'm sure it was a combination of people, and my habit patterns of knowing the goal has NOT been met so its still not good enough. I told them I hear voices from all of them at times, and I feel so overwhelmed and so broken down. I started to cry a bit, but stopped myself. I realize how vulerable that made me look. How completely insecure I am. How NOT confident I really am. I just put it all out there, and I just never felt good about doing that ever! I have been pushing myself to do this, but I need to step out of my comfort zone. I need to allow my feelings to surface, and say them to someone else but me and God. LOL He is also one I have trouble saying it to! I realize that sounds completely silly. At times I do and there is no effort - its just flows. Other times I don't want to say anything - not even to myself.

I think that is part of my stuffing pattern. I have been trying NOT to stuff! Its hard to tell people how I feel. I have no clue why - I think I was programed that way. My true inner feelings - they are locked up because I feel like I would be a fool to turn them loose. I guess I should say the illogical feelings inside! LOL people know when I am happy or sad about things at times. THey just don't know the depth of those feelings. I don't show deep. I have been trying tho. I used to have depth, but I guess after being burned so many times by opening up and those thoughts used against me.....I stopped.

I narrowed in on this because many times when we were younger we felt not good enough and that flows right over into adulthood. Many times we do the best we can but it just doesnt' seem to measure up. With God, however, we never have to measure up with anyone...we only concern ourselves with pleasing him. With God, we know that if we fail, he won't look down on us but will encourage us to continue on!

It takes alot of undoing to get us to realize this. We are so use to trying to please others that we can't really see the good in ourselves. It gets tossed aside and we are left with that "not good enough" feeling. We have to combat this with God's word on a daily basis.

Keep up the great work! Nail that tree to the ground! :lol:

sweetpuppies02
Dec 17th 2006, 05:32 AM
I am a christian woman who has struggled to gain control of the angry part of myself. I grew up in a home where feelings of anger an not addressed. My mother would explode with rage and my father would withdraw and leave the house. It was the family rule childrens anger was to be repressed and not allowed in expression. My parents got a divorce when I was 14, my father left and I was glad but deeply depressed. I was a bottle of rage about to explode for my father controlled my anger with his board of discipline. At age 16 I got my first job and met my husband. He was an alcoholic at age 21, he to came from the same type of background as me. I became the exploder and he withdrew and left the house. I didn't want the life of my parents and wanted to believe somehow life or I could be different. This year has been a rough year of dealing with another deeper level of childhood rage and anger. I gave my life to the lord in 1992, and my husband and I split up, we have no children so we went our seperate ways . Me to the counselor , him to his work and the world. For seven years God showed me my rageful behavior in a second husband, looking into this rageful mirror was very eye opening. I prayed for the lord to forgive me and set me free from what created such a monster in me, not long after i was reunited with my first husband.We came back together two differnt people I was more calm he was more rageful. There are traits in my husband that trigger rage I feel for my mother and also for my father. My husband isn't a practicing christian he still hides in his work , alcohol and drugs. This year I have been looking into mirrors of my mothers traits and the Lord wanting me to bow and serve them and learn to control the triggers of behavior that stir the childhood memories of rage inside. When iwas a child my parents were only loving at christmas time. They made our house feel like a home full of love and I hated to see the season leave cause I knew the tonguse of anger would be back and woulded subside for another year. I used to hit with my fist and I prayed and asked the lord to bless and use my hands for only good and not evil. This year we have been addressing the issue of my tongue and the words I speak to my husband and others in my life. I prayed once again that He would bless my tongue and use for good and not evil. It has been my belief that if I address the issues that trigger the anger in me then maybe I myself would not be controlled by someone who is still so unhappy. It has been a hard year of discipline for me from the Lord, cause when I read the word I could hear HIm hollaring angrily back at me. As i experienced this I was so hurt that He was mad at me for we had had such beautiful conversations in the past, Could I take in the anger words of the Lord and not be afraid of Him, no I couldn't and neither could my husband. The key He told me was I had to desire peace with my parents in order to be free of the hateful angry words they used to define me. Bitterness at parents can be buried and not dealt with and it will show up in alot of our bad habits. The years of not being allowed to express anger in healthy ways had built up a wall in me, and I just couldn't seem to get past the wall that I felt protected the real me. This week in church the pastor talked about James , Jesus's younger brother. As i meditated on this this week I thought what was it like to live with an older brother who did not have the sin nature in HIm. For jesus was the oldest so usually in family order the oldest is responsible for the younger siblings. As I read James I noticed he always addressed his listeners with the word Dear brothers, and I wondered was that how Jesus spoke to him as the younger brother who grew up with him. As the brother of jesus james knew a side of HIm others would'nt know unless they grew up with Him, I was afraid to read the book of James cause he talks about the mirror again. God brings mirrors of myself in other people in my life, and I'm discovering the mirrors are looking less angry, so I assume after 16 years of correction maybe finally I'm grtting a handle on this part of myself that just always seems to defeat me. When I read James I think of the lord sitting beside His younger brother helping him to better understand our heavenly father and what He desires us to look like. What do you say to the screaming one who seems to be out of control. I believe if you pray and ask God to give you the words to calm down your husband your son will better understand his father and how to deal with screaming ones who he will experience also out in the world in his daily life. I shall pray that God will help your husband to focus more closely on what triggers the feelings of rage and withdrawl for I know my husband acts just like my father inlaw. your in my prayers sweetpuppies02

Diggindeeper
Dec 17th 2006, 07:10 AM
hdt...my goodness...I gotta brag on you!

There are very few people who come on this board and grow in knowledge like you are doing! How can I say how PROUD I am of you??

I'm at a loss for words! You were like a whipped puppy when you came on here. Now, look at the Godly woman you are becoming! :pp

I am awed! :amen:

I dare say that someday, before very long...you are going to be counselling other women who are going through the same things! :yes:

vickiecentoni
Jun 28th 2008, 11:23 PM
That poem is what I'm living. I feel sometimes I am crazy that it is me. I see this post is old however I would love to talk to someone who has been through this. Is there hope? Is there a man who has overcome? 15yrs I have been doing this, not sure if I can make it another 15.

Cynthia
Aug 14th 2008, 07:26 PM
My spouse has a bit of an anger issue within him. We have sought out counceling, and it was brought up that he also suffers from lack of empathy. Its a hard combination for everyone. I do believe he is attempting to try to correct parts of it, and othertimes it seems he runs from it. Its such a strange situation to be in. I think what happened is something in the past - maybe childhood - was stuffed and forgotten about. I mean lets face it you don't grow up with the goal of being an angry person. For years it seemed like he had normal, healthy childhood. Within the first couple of years of marriage I found small cracks in that image, but he pushed them away as no biggie. I think with time he became harder for him to hide those cracks, and that frustrated him. As the years pasted it seemed like resentment towards the strangest items seemed to build within him. A situation in September seemed to spark the fuel that he seemed to holding inside, and the full wrath of his anger came to the surface in front of alot of family members. Scared all of us to death. He won't seek refuge in church or in God. I think he just wishes to push it back down again, and wants everyone to just ignore.

There are times in which I do pretty well, and other times I seem to almost break under the pressure. Its a real struggle to keep things above water with so much venom and contempt being thrown around, and at times I feel like I am sinking deeper and deeper down. I have done alot of work on myself as I have dealt with this issue within our family. I have also sought out help for our children. I don't believe in slamming the person, because it is not right! There are times tho that I have to address bad behavior - not the bad person - so we have the safety of actually having things being spoken about. As I told my MIL in response to the children - they can't have one parent blow and then have another mininize the effect and not validate the fear it brings into the family. Where are they going to go with those feelings if they can't come to me, and I have to be honest about them. I do remind them that he does love all of us, but he does has issues with his wrath. No one can deny it. He doesn't deny it. He tells people that I'm a very even tempered person, and I deal with things firmly but with care. LOL Kind of a strange thing to hear from your spouse when you feel that isn't working to help anything!

There are days I am strong than others I will admit that. I just can't seem to keep a steady flow of strength tho. Its like parts of me get chipped away, but I still keep going. I guess that would be my chain.

Thank you.

My husband also had anger issue and was alot like you have described your husband. I told him I couldn't live with him that way and we went to church to get counseling. We were given a bunch of Bible verses to look at, fasted, and read Psalms everyday. It helped some, but after awhile all the bad behaviors resurfaced. I finally sent him to a secular counselor, and much to my releif he began to change his tune almost immediately. We learn it was his belief system that was damaged. He wasn't leaving room for human error. He has such learn that we you say someone "should" do something you are expecting them to be perfect (or as I like to say it, you are expecting them to be Jesus). I would try to find a good cognitive counselor for your husband.
Another thing my husband learned is the consequences of his anger. Is getting angry getting him want he wants or does it make the situation just worse? He learn that his relastionships with others detoriated due to his anger. With the proper help he has improved 100% he rarely gets angry anymore!
BTW, the church did teaach us that when someone acts poorly, the worst thing you can do is allow your behavior to detoriate as well. Stay strong, and don't allow him to have controll over your actions!
God Bless!

hdt
Aug 16th 2008, 04:45 PM
BTW, the church did teaach us that when someone acts poorly, the worst thing you can do is allow your behavior to detoriate as well. Stay strong, and don't allow him to have controll over your actions!



That to me is common sense as well! Most of the time I do see me being in control of my emotions, actions and behaviors. Being human there are times in which I fail of course. I will never be perfect, and shouldn't be expected to be either. LOL Can't name a person that could be - human that is!

I think at times when people do detoriate shows they are getting burnt out and crispy with all the pressure, etc that is being laid upon them. Hopefully you can find a support system that allows for human error due to those circumstances instead of being very rigid. I'm NOT saying it shouldn't be addressed, but its a very fine line at times on how hard to come down on people for breaking under the pressure. I have seen with others that some came down to hard on people for their reaction, and backfired on them as far as being helpful and supportive.

I was reading another board one day, and a lady spoke of some awful circumstances within her marriage. It was heartbreaking to read. She was trying so hard, and was so humble. She spoke of a day in which he was in her face LITERALLY, and she tried everything to get him away from her. She snapped and he was raging at her - spitting as he yelled and had cornered her after she attempted to walk away - and she slapped him in response. She did apologize for this, and mentioned how scared she was at the time. The posters slammed her for the slap, and never truly acknowledged the rest of what happened. It was awful! WHen I asked WHY they were coming down so hard on her they had all kinds of excuses. How she was NOW as abusive as he was for slapping. How they are only hearing one side of the story. How its their job to lovingly rebuke her. When I reminded them she mentioned the apology, and knew it was wrong...they spoke of double standards. :B I'm not going to justify what she did, but she did apologize. She got crufied for being human. She never came back either. :cry:

I'm glad your husband is willing to come out of denial of his actions. Praise God for that! My husband has a light go on from time to time, and I do hope he decides to help himself. Currently my son is going to counseling with a new counselor - old one left on baby leave! My husband attends the sessions with my son, and has been pointing out some of his actions that are unreasonable. He is attempting to see the light again. I pray for his healing. I think my son hearing this is very validating for him as well. Its something he needs to hear from someone else. The counselor goes to our church, and is versed in domestic violence. He truly gets it, and time will tell if my husband is finally tired enough of the pain that causes him to rage enough to make some serious change within himself. Meanwhile, I have my own journey that I take.

livingwaters
Aug 17th 2008, 03:50 AM
HE says HE will never put more on us than we can bear!!! So, we must trust HIM!!! HE knows the end from the beginning. I wish you the best and pray for the Lord's hand to rest upon the shoulder of your husband. He really needs to know the Lord.

Stand firm on your faith---after all, what more is there??!!!!:hug::pray:

God Bless!!

hdt
Aug 17th 2008, 06:19 AM
HE says HE will never put more on us than we can bear!!! So, we must trust HIM!!! HE knows the end from the beginning. I wish you the best and pray for the Lord's hand to rest upon the shoulder of your husband. He really needs to know the Lord.

Stand firm on your faith---after all, what more is there??!!!!:hug::pray:

God Bless!!

I know what you say is true! We has humans tend to wonder CAN I get off this train now? :lol: I'm tired the train of never more than I can handle - where is the break?:P What about a different trial at times? LOL can we break it up a bit! :spin:

Cynthia
Aug 18th 2008, 03:20 PM
That to me is common sense as well! Most of the time I do see me being in control of my emotions, actions and behaviors. Being human there are times in which I fail of course. I will never be perfect, and shouldn't be expected to be either. LOL Can't name a person that could be - human that is!

I think at times when people do detoriate shows they are getting burnt out and crispy with all the pressure, etc that is being laid upon them. Hopefully you can find a support system that allows for human error due to those circumstances instead of being very rigid. I'm NOT saying it shouldn't be addressed, but its a very fine line at times on how hard to come down on people for breaking under the pressure. I have seen with others that some came down to hard on people for their reaction, and backfired on them as far as being helpful and supportive.

I was reading another board one day, and a lady spoke of some awful circumstances within her marriage. It was heartbreaking to read. She was trying so hard, and was so humble. She spoke of a day in which he was in her face LITERALLY, and she tried everything to get him away from her. She snapped and he was raging at her - spitting as he yelled and had cornered her after she attempted to walk away - and she slapped him in response. She did apologize for this, and mentioned how scared she was at the time. The posters slammed her for the slap, and never truly acknowledged the rest of what happened. It was awful! WHen I asked WHY they were coming down so hard on her they had all kinds of excuses. How she was NOW as abusive as he was for slapping. How they are only hearing one side of the story. How its their job to lovingly rebuke her. When I reminded them she mentioned the apology, and knew it was wrong...they spoke of double standards. :B I'm not going to justify what she did, but she did apologize. She got crufied for being human. She never came back either. :cry:

.

You are only human and I wouldn't expect perfection from you or anyone else. We are all human and capable of human error. To hear that others came down on the women in the story above is heartbreaking. It is not our place to judge, that is left to Jesus. What that lady needed, and you and I as well, is our prayers, a sympathetic ear, and our understanding. I pray for you and your family to be strong and to find peace.
GOd Bless

hdt
Aug 18th 2008, 05:47 PM
Thank you - I agree. I didn't understand it at all. I tried to be clear and calm about it ... and they just ignored it. I hope she found a safe place to go to. I Pm'ed her a different location so she could get some support, and be heard. I don't know if she went there tho! :confused

I think my whole outlook changed when God showed me that I was dealing with a broken soul. I believe that it was good that I got help for myself, and educated myself on what I was dealing with. I dealt with my own demons, and at times it really hurt. :cry: I pushed myself anyway, and it was like an instant one day while he was acting up did I see the difference for the first time. I saw things he was doing that I never really saw before. I think my journey helped me recognize this.

I have always been a fairly laid back person, but I do remember the beginning of my 20+ year marriage. I have to wonder if I didn't see things as well back then due to immaturity, being naive (never thought someone could act like this), and the fact living with someone is so much different than dating!:lol: We dated for 2 years while I was in college. I remember times (after we got married) in which he would say things, and all I could do is sit there stunned. It was so OUT THERE, and I couldn't believe someone could think that way. Later on - I started to get angry when he told me I didn't get it because I didn't live in the 'real world'. Goodness knows I had all kinds of stages - trying new things - new approaches - changing almost everything I could think of. It finally dawned on me. I wasn't placed on this earth to be someone's whipping boy. I also didn't own a crystal ball to see into the future items he felt I should know since we were married afterall. It was quite a wake up call for me!

My journey began with education, and professional help. It just all fell into place. I never even knew what verbal and emotional abuse was. Never heard of it. It was hard to accept as well. I mean I wasn't getting hit right? Can't be that bad! Then I started to make excuses for him - due to me NOT wishing to see the truth. From what I have read - that's pretty typical, but God got ahold of me and made sure my rose colored glasses broke into a million peices!

Working on myself seemed so unfair at the time. I would admit I had issues like everyone else, but I just wanted the hurt to go away. I didn't feel safe, and I lived in fear. I realized you don't have to be hit to be scared. I also realized this isn't normal, and no one can be what he was asking for. That reality hit me like a mack truck! I just felt helpless as to what to do about it. Pointing things out to him - ever so lovingly - just raised his anxiety levels and he raged. I was lucky enough that I could walk away when it started - some people can't they follow you. The deal was you could never reach any resolution, because that anxiety level would also be present even when you attempted to approach later. It seems to me I was in between a rock and hard place. If you had have no resolution how can things be settled, or how could you come to some sort of agreement, etc.

I realized that this strong man I felt I married was more insecure than strong. He used his rage instead of tools that most people do. He used diversion tactics to get off the subject. He attacked me instead of admitting what he was doing. It was all a guise.

I had to learn to stick to things and stay calm. Make my points and stick to them - and stop defending myself when he placed words in my mouth. Tell him what I feel was acceptable, and be okay that he wasn't okay with it. I had to stay within realms of reasonable, and not back down...and keep walking away when he got to heated. That was soooooooo hard!
Now its got to the point he realizes I refuse to banter when I start to walk away from him. He will scream, "There you go not dealing with things again! You just run away!" I was validated once by a counselor that told him it was the only safe thing to do at the time. He also told my husband he was a victim of his own anger. His rage was going to tear his life apart if he didn't learn ways of calming down. My son's counselor recently told him he is expecting to much from everyone, and he made him realize that even he couldn't step up to his own standards but was expecting everyone else to.

I'm not going to say he can't get me hot under the collar at times, but when I do get away I remember what I'm dealing with. At times he will have a light go on, and other times he just loses control. I - on the other hand - have a sense of peace knowing it isn't me. That's NOT to say I'm perfect, but his rages are NOT caused by ME! Its not easy, but I do realize what I'm dealing with. I don't feel so completely lost. I struggle with getting close to him tho. He isn't safe in that area, and yet I wish to. lol not sure what I will do about that! I guess that is my next hill to climb. lol goodness knows I will have others!

The one thing I have also learned is you must have someone safe to speak with. Its not used as a tool to speak badly about your spouse. I needed a person to purge to with my frustrations, sorrow, anger, and also receive validation. lol I also speak of joy of course! God placed someone in my life to help me, pray for me, and walk me thru this. She is the sweetest dear! I have learned that I have been stuffing feelings, because it wasn't safe to bring them out. I'm NOT going to say I don't speak to God about this also, but it is nice to have the human touch also! I don't spiral into despair with both like I used to. It was such a helpless feeling. Have to wonder what is next! LOL!:hmm: