1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

My hope is that your not going in the wrong direction with it.

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

I think that verse might be like the scripture that says we're to do like God's word says, not just be hearers of it.

They would sit and listen and be part of the group, but when they left, they left all thoughts of God behind.

I'm sure there's more meaning in the scripture you quoted, and I'm looking forward to knowing more of what it means. :)

Victoria

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

No, why not tell us where you're going with it?

To show that there are tares among the wheat, that at some point look like wheat but are eventually revealed as tares.

IOW, there are people who appear to be Christians but have never truly been born again and put their faith in Christ alone for salvation.

That is my guess :)

*ahem*

OSAS?

:hmm:

I think that verse might be like the scripture that says we're to do like God's word says, not just be hearers of it.

They would sit and listen and be part of the group, but when they left, they left all thoughts of God behind.

I'm sure there's more meaning in the scripture you quoted, and I'm looking forward to knowing more of what it means. :)

Victoria

This verse is how John answers the concerns of the church that he is speaking to. The discussion was based on those who claimed to be believers and then later re-canted their faith and maybe even went out declaring a false gospel. Like how some were saying that Jesus never came in the flesh, and others were saying that we are all able to be gods and so on...these are they (not true believers in Christ) that went out from them (true beleivers in Christ), because they were not of them.
Basically they were pretenders and only acted like they were christians.

Does anyone know where I'm going with this?


No, but I am still very curious.

This verse is how John answers the concerns of the church that he is speaking to. The discussion was based on those who claimed to be believers and then later re-canted their faith and maybe even went out declaring a false gospel. Like how some were saying that Jesus never came in the flesh, and others were saying that we are all able to be gods and so on...these are they (not true believers in Christ) that went out from them (true beleivers in Christ), because they were not of them.
Basically they were pretenders and only acted like they were christians.

I guess that's kind of like the wheat and tares thing that Toolman mentioned. I hadn't thought of that. This is all so interesting. :)

Even today, there's so many that are out there basically with a different Gospel. Not the real Gospel message at all.

Thank you saved7 and all for great thoughts on this! :hug

Victoria

I guess that's kind of like the wheat and tares thing that Toolman mentioned. I hadn't thought of that. This is all so interesting. :)

Even today, there's so many that are out there basically with a different Gospel. Not the real Gospel message at all.

Thank you saved7 and all for great thoughts on this! :hug

Victoria

Yup, that's exactly what toolman was saying.:saint:

What this verse is tellin us is that those who comprise the anti-Christ were at one time members of the true church of Christ. They are were in the world then and are to this day.

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

I remember reading this scripture after I had sort of stumbled across a cult, right after I was "born again". I had attended a few of their bible studies before I realized what they were about. After I had prayed about it I had read these scriptures.........

John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Many of these people had come from Christian churches. But they deny that Jesus is God. I was thankful for the Holy Spirit who helped my understanding and didn't let me be drawn into their cult. I was very saddened for these people though and prayed for them for a very long time.

So anyway, where were you going with this? :)

Blessings

*ahem*

OSAS?

:hmm:


Hilarious...I think this deserves them all!! Well most of them!
:lol::o:D;):spin::pp:rolleyes::rofl:

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


Does anyone know where I'm going with this?

:)

Very simple, those who have departed from the "local church" were those who did not belong to the local church where John and the rest of the congregation attended. That has nothing to do with salvation...salvation can be lost.In Christ,Justin

Dear ddlewis86:

Why keep us in the dark. Please have the courtesy to tell us plainly where you are going with this so we don't have to guess and waste our time in this thread.

Well Gary, and others, not to keep anyone in the dark....I believe Theophilus guessed where I was going with this.

OSAS. Yes! That's it.

Some folks believe that a Christian can lose his salvation. Others believe he can reject his salvation.

OSAS'ers, like myself, tend to believe that if a person loses or rejects their salvation, they were never really saved to begin with. They may have the head knowledge of the Gospel, but they never truly accepted it in their hearts.

Sorry for taking so long to update this thread. I appreciate all of the responses thus far.

:)

Well Gary, and others, not to keep anyone in the dark....I believe Theophilus guessed where I was going with this.

OSAS. Yes! That's it.

Some folks believe that a Christian can lose his salvation. Others believe he can reject his salvation.

OSAS'ers, like myself, tend to believe that if a person loses or rejects their salvation, they were never really saved to begin with. They may have the head knowledge of the Gospel, but they never truly accepted it in their hearts.

Sorry for taking so long to update this thread. I appreciate all of the responses thus far.

:)


The Bible teaches us clearly that a head knowledge doesn't exist.

1 Cor. 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way to receive Christ is in Spirit! So when the Bible speaks of those who received (the seed, the Word, etc.) then it is talking about saved people.

The Bible teaches that salvation is a very simple process. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved (Rom 10:9). That's it! It doesn't say that many will do this and will not be "truly" saved. It says all that do this will be saved.

I know what Jesus said about "depart from me I never knew you" but I believe this is talking about those who do not endure to the end. Those who confessed and believed and didn't finish the race, kept the faith or looked back after putting their hand to the plough.

2 Tim 4:7
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Luke 9:62
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

The Bible teaches us clearly that a head knowledge doesn't exist.

1 Cor. 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way to receive Christ is in Spirit! So when the Bible speaks of those who received (the seed, the Word, etc.) then it is talking about saved people.

The Bible teaches that salvation is a very simple process. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved (Rom 10:9). That's it! It doesn't say that many will do this and will not be "truly" saved. It says all that do this will be saved.

I know what Jesus said about "depart from me I never knew you" but I believe this is talking about those who do not endure to the end. Those who confessed and believed and didn't finish the race, kept the faith or looked back after putting their hand to the plough.

2 Tim 4:7
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Luke 9:62
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Yes, they could not endure to the end because they had no ROOT (Christ). They were working real hard trying to keep their so-called salvation, but in the end it becomes apparent that Christ MUST abide in us, as well as we abiding in Him, for without Him we can do nothing. Without the Root, no matter how good we think we might be we are NOT truly saved. But, when you have the Root you can rest assured that He Who has saved you has saved you ETERNALLY (perpetual, without end)!

RW

ddlewis:

those that deny the son are those that do not have the truth in them cause they do not as he commanded. They are liars. They are pretenders....

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.


If you don't walk as He walked, i would say you're denying the truth just as well as evident in the following verses:

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.


I do not think it's a matter of OSAS here, but rather a decision these people have made/make/will make not to follow the truth into a new way of life.
These people may very well have had the intentions and they could have been saved initially as in that they were looking to make a fresh start, and then decided they didn't want to go the whole 9 yards. The reason i see it this way, is cause it says they went out from amongst them. as in they were going forth, but stopped to continue in the way of life they had learned. This is why it was made manifest that they were not of the truth.

If the verse had not spoken of something they "did not continue in" then i would have thought they never were saved and never had known the truth. The phrase "did not continmue" implies that they at one point did do the right thing.

“Perhaps most visible-church members are also members of the invisible church, the mystical body of Christ, but some are not. They are with us yet do not really belong to us. They share our earthly company but not our heavenly birth.” (Stott)