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			<title>Jesus and His Kingdom . . . is not of this World</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3396-Jesus-and-His-Kingdom-is-not-of-this-World</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:00:16 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
Let's not miss this conversation from John 18 below: 
 
 
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John 18 
33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” 
34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this...]]></description>
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<br />
Let's not miss this conversation from John 18 below:<br />
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				John 18<br />
33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”<br />
34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?”<br />
35 Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?”<br />
36 Jesus answered,<b> “My kingdom is not of this world.</b> If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”<br />
37 <b>Therefore </b>Pilate said to Him, <b>“So You are a king?” </b>Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”<br />
38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?”
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, after Jesus gives the statement of John 18:36 and so on, Pilate asks Jesus this question in John 18:37:<br />
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				. . . “So You are a king?” . . . <b>Therefore . . .</b>
			
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</div>Yep. <br />
<br />
The question is asked by Pilate, <b>Therefore . . .</b>--and so on. <br />
<br />
In other words, even Pilate understood this principle: that<b> where there is a Kingdom, there has to be a King--and vice versa.</b> And Jesus indicated that Pilate spoke <b>&quot; . . . correctly . . .&quot;</b> indeed.<br />
<br />
Thus, Pilate expected Jesus to answer the question of John 18:37 in a manner no different than any other &quot;Gentile&quot; ruler would answer it. And of course, a &quot;Gentile&quot; ruler has a specific posture of behavior, and Luke 22:24-27 tells us about some of it:<br />
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				Luke 22<br />
24 And there arose also a dispute among them as to which one of them was regarded to be greatest.<br />
25 And He (Jesus) said to them, <b>“The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who have authority over them are called ‘Benefactors.’<br />
26 “But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant.</b><br />
27 “For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table?<b> But I am among you as the one who serves.</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, notice here that Jesus is describing aspects of His kingdom in no uncertain terms in the verses of Luke 22:26-27 above, yes? Notice also the stark contrast of what Jesus is describing in verses 26-27 of Luke 22 (His Kingdom) against Jesus' description of the &quot;kings of the Gentiles&quot; and so on in verse 25 of Luke 22.<br />
<br />
And so, the &quot;kings of the Gentiles&quot; &quot;lord&quot; over &quot;earthly kingdoms&quot; and so on--kingdoms that are of this world.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, <b>Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. </b>Nevertheless, <u>the citizens of the kingdom of God are certainly in this world now</u>--as implied by Jesus' prayer:<br />
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				John 17<br />
13 “But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.<br />
14 “I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.<br />
<b>15 “I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.<br />
16 “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.<br />
17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.<br />
18 “As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.</b><br />
19 “For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.<br />
20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;<br />
<b>21 that they may all be one;</b> even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
			
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	</div>
</div>And of course, we have this below from Jesus and Paul also:<br />
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				John 3<br />
3Jesus answered and said to him, <b>“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”</b><br />
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”<br />
5Jesus answered,<b> “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.</b><br />
<br />
Col. 1<br />
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, <b>and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,<br />
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.</b>
			
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</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Thus, it is evident that entering the Kingdom of God and seeing the Kingdom of God occurs when a person is born again; these people <b>have redemption as well as the forgiveness of sins already</b>.<br />
<br />
Therefore, Paul the Apostle was in the Kingdom of God in the first century--and because he believed the preached Gospel of Jesus Christ:<br />
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				I Pet. 1 (from Peter--he ought to know . . .)<br />
22Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,<br />
<br />
23for <b>you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.</b><br />
<br />
24For,<br />
“ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS,<br />
AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS.<br />
THE GRASS WITHERS,<br />
AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,<br />
<br />
25BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER.”<br />
And this is the word which was preached to you.
			
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	</div>
</div>And so, this brings us back again to John 18:36: how do we know that Jesus' kingdom is not of this world--but yet is here in the world?<br />
<br />
<font color="#FF0000">Well, Jesus' servants did not fight to keep Him from being taken by the Jews to be crucified. </font>  And therefore, we have the Kingdom of God co-existing with the Roman Kingdom in the 1st century--as is evident here also in Acts 17:<br />
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				Acts 17<br />
5 But the Jews, becoming jealous and taking along some wicked men from the market place, formed a mob and set the city in an uproar; and attacking the house of Jason, they were seeking to bring them out to the people.<br />
6 When they did not find them, they began dragging Jason and some brethren before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have upset the world have come here also;<br />
7 and Jason has welcomed them, and they all act contrary to the decrees of Caesar, <b>saying that there is another king, Jesus.”</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep . . .<br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3396-Jesus-and-His-Kingdom-is-not-of-this-World</guid>
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			<title>. . . apropos the VISION verses of Revelation 20:4:6 . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3316-apropos-the-VISION-verses-of-Revelation-20-4-6</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:58:45 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>:) 
 
Well, perhaps it is time finally to explain what I mean when I indicate that Rev. 20:4-6 are *VISION* verses: 
 
 
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Rev. 20 
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto  them: and I saw the souls of them...</description>
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<br />
Well, perhaps it is time finally to explain what I mean when I indicate that Rev. 20:4-6 are <b>VISION</b> verses:<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto  them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of  Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,  neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,  or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand  years.<br />
<br />
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.<br />
<br />
6<b>Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:</b>  on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of  God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
			
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</div>Now, when I indicate that Rev. 20:4-6 are <b>VISION</b> verses, I mean that these verses were written by John <i><u>to express primarily <b>to the readers of his day</b> some important truth--truth that would achieve relevancy with what <i>many of them were <b>already</b> experiencing</i>: <b>martyrdom</b> by the beast of that time</u></i>.  What <b>important </b>truth would that be?<br />
<br />
Well, <i>whatever </i>truth it would be, that truth would have to <i><u>provide encouragement to the saints to <b>continue</b> in faith so as to receive a special vindication from God as they would <i><u>continue to defy the beast of those days</u></i>, yes?</u></i> And remember, the beast did <b>the following</b> to people of faith, yes (in the verse <b>below</b>)?<br />
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				Rev. 20: 4b . . . beheaded (the people of faith) for the witness of  Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,  neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,  or in their hands; . . .
			
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</div>Yep.  <br />
<br />
And when we should expect the martyred saints of those days  to remain DEAD, the scripture indicates that they actually are LIVING  and Ruling--while being DEAD physically.<br />
<br />
Yep.  <u>They LIVED and Ruled while being DEAD</u>.   <br />
<br />
In other words, DEATH for the people of faith <b>is</b> resurrection for <u>the people of faith.</u> This is what it means to truly <i><u>overcome</u></i> the beast--even to gain <b>VICTORY</b> over the beast.  This is what it mean to <u><i>have (hath) part in the first resurrection</i></u>:<br />
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				Rev. 15<br />
2And <b>I saw</b> something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and <b>those  who had been victorious over the beast and his image and the number of  his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.<br />
<br />
3And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, </b>saying,<br />
         <br />
      “Great and marvelous are Your works,<br />
         O Lord God, the Almighty;<br />
         Righteous and true are Your ways,<br />
         King of the nations!<br />
<br />
4“Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?<br />
         For You alone are holy;<br />
         For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU,<br />
         FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED.”
			
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	</div>
</div>Indeed, this is what the <b>VISION</b> of Rev. 20:4-6 is explaining (remember, John was not shown everything, and therefore, he did not write down everything).<br />
<br />
And remember, there have been <b>many</b> people of faith that have defied the beast before our time <b>already.</b> I mean, they died by martyrdom only because they were <b>not</b>  deceived by the false prophet to worship the beast, right? And the saints of John's time who have  died as martyrs already (for example) have been NOW ruling with Christ  for quite a while  . . . :pp<br />
<br />
And it seems that when we <i><u>remember</u></i> all of this, that's how we can suggest that the &quot;1000 years&quot; can not be &quot;earth-time-clock-time&quot; literal.  <br />
<br />
Finally, <u>the point</u> of the <b>VISION</b> of Rev. 20:4-6 is let the saints KNOW what DEAD people are <b>NOW</b> doing <u><b>during our current age: ruling or not ruling with Christ and so on</b></u>.  Indeed, the notion that the verses of Rev. 20:4-6 deal with what happens during the age of the eternal state <b>is NEVER in view at all</b>: at least, not in terms of what we <i>should be learning from the <b>VISION</b> . . .</i><br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3316-apropos-the-VISION-verses-of-Revelation-20-4-6</guid>
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			<title>. . . resurrection . . . as taught by Paul . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3304-resurrection-as-taught-by-Paul</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:59:44 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
What follows now is a fairly complete review of Paul's points in I Cor. 15--along with some additional related observations and so on. 
 
And so, here is the first portion of the text: 
 
 
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I Cor. 15 
1Now I make known to you,...]]></description>
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<br />
What follows now is a fairly complete review of Paul's points in I Cor. 15--along with some additional related observations and so on.<br />
<br />
And so, here is the first portion of the text:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, <b>in which also you stand, <br />
2by which also you are saved,</b> if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
			
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</div>OK.  Paul is indicating <b>what the Gospel is</b>--and what it consists of.  Here it is below:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, <b>that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, <br />
4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, <br />
5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. <br />
6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time,  most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; <br />
7then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; <br />
8and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. <br />
9For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. <br />
10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did  not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but  the grace of God with me. <br />
11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.</b>
			
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</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
And so, the summary on this above is as follows: <u><i>Christ died physically for our sins, was buried physically, and rose from the dead physically; subsequently, He appeared to men.</i></u><br />
<br />
Thus, Paul asked a question in verse 12 that is a<b> bombshell question:</b><br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
12Now <b>if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead,</b> how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
			
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</div>Yep.  <br />
<br />
Paul indicates in no uncertain terms that <u><b>Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead</b></u>; this should <b>not</b> be controversial.  <br />
<br />
And so, the disposition of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth is <b>absolutely foundational </b>to Paul's dialectic in I Cor. 15.  Thus, the question that must be asked so far is this: <b>How</b> did  Jesus rise from the dead?  In other words, did the body of Jesus Christ  rise from the dead physically at all?  Paul thought so, and so did  Matthew:<br />
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				Matt. 28<br />
1Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the  week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. <br />
2And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord  descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon  it. <br />
3And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. <br />
4The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. <br />
5The angel said to the women, <font color="#0000FF">“Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. <br />
6“He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. <br />
7“Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and  behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him;  behold, I have told you.”<br />
8And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. <br />
9And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. <br />
10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”<br />
</font>
			
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</div>Next, we go to the next portion of Paul's argument:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
<b>13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; </b><br />
14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. <br />
15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we  testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if  in fact the dead are not raised. <br />
<b>16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; </b><br />
<b>17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. <br />
</b>18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. <br />
19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
			
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</div>OK.  <br />
<br />
For the <u><i>first 19 verses of I Cor. 15</i></u>, Paul is <b>laying down the gauntlet</b> over whether there is physical, bodily resurrection from the dead.  How?<br />
<br />
Well, he is indicating that <u>our faith is Christ is worthless if there is no physical bodily resurrection from the dead</u>--because this would mean that <u>Christ Himself did not rise from the dead bodily</u>.  And of course, this would <b>call into question the truth of the Gospel itself.</b><br />
<br />
And so, <u>this is truth that all the saints have the privilege of getting right</u>.   Also, it is truth the Paul <b>fought for:</b><br />
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				Eph. 6<br />
10Finally, <b>be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. <br />
11Put on the full armor of God</b>, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.<br />
<br />
17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and <b>the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.</b><br />
<br />
I Tim. 6<br />
<b>12Fight the good fight of faith;</b> take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
			
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</div>Of course, the &quot;armor&quot; here is <u>the Gospel itself that Paul preached</u>--even <b>the Word of God</b>.<font color="#0000FF"><br />
<br />
</font>Next, we have a passage that affirms the truth: that Christ has risen  from the dead bodily--and in context with the previous 19 verses of I  Cor. 15:<br />
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				I Cor.15<br />
20But <b>now Christ has been raised from the dead,</b> the first fruits of those who are asleep.
			
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</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
In other words, Paul is affirming <b>truth</b>--that the Gospel is<b> true</b>.   However, when Paul indicates that Christ is the &quot;first fruits&quot; of those  who are asleep, he is indicating that there <b>are many who are still dead physically</b>--and that those that are still dead physically (i. e., are &quot;asleep&quot;) will rise physically from the dead <b>just as Christ Jesus did.  </b>That's all that Paul is indicating.  <br />
<br />
Yep.  <br />
<br />
And so, the question is<b> when?</b>  <br />
<br />
Well, this is what Paul is explaining in the next set of verses from I Cor. 15:<br />
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				 Cor. 15<br />
21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. <br />
22For as in Adam all die, so also <b>in Christ all will be made alive. </b><br />
23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that <b>those who are Christ’s at His coming, . . . </b>
			
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</div>Yep.  (Did you see it?)<br />
<br />
Those who are dead physically will be<b> made alive physically</b> at the Coming of Jesus Christ.  And so, when is the Coming of Jesus Christ?  Indeed, His coming is<b> at the end:</b><br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
24a then comes <b>the end, </b>. . .
			
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</div>Yep.  And<b> when</b> is <b>the end</b>?  <b><br />
<br />
Well, the end</b> is <b>when</b> . . .<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
24b . . . He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, <b>when</b> He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. <br />
25For He must reign <b>until</b> He has put <b>all His enemies</b> under His feet. <br />
26<b>The last enemy</b> that will be abolished is <b>death.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
In other words, the reign of Christ is <b>required</b> so that all rule, all  authority, and all power is abolished.  And the &quot;abolishment&quot; of death <b>requires </b>resurrection f<u>rom the dead of the physical body when Christ comes again.</u>  After all, Paul indicates that<b> only Christ has immortality physically:</b><br />
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				I Tim. 6<br />
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and  of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius  Pilate, <br />
14that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, <br />
15which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, <br />
<b>16who alone possesses immortality</b> and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And so, a question is required here: when did Christ become immortal <b>only?</b>  Well, He was not immortal while He was on earth as the Lamb of God; that body was subject to death:<br />
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				Heb. 2<br />
14Therefore, since <b>the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same,</b> that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, <br />
15and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Thus, the only time that Christ could have been made immortal  physically was when Christ rose from the dead in the 1st century.  And  when Christ comes back the second time, <u>those who are dead physically will be made immortal physically as well</u>.<br />
<br />
And so, Paul finished this portion of his dialectic of I Cor. 15  by  indicating that the Son Jesus will be subject to the Father after all  thing have been made subject to Him--even at the end of<b> this </b>present age:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He  says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is  excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. <br />
28<b>When all things are subjected to Him,</b> <b>then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.<br />
</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>OK. So far, we have investigated 28 verses from I Cor. 15 which affirm what <b>Christ did indeed bodily. </b> Thus, Paul makes an additional dialectic--and in accordance with his usual manner:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
<b>29Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the  dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? <br />
30Why are we also in danger every hour? </b><br />
31I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. <br />
32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does  it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR  TOMORROW WE DIE. <br />
33Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” <br />
34Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Then Paul asks another <b>bombshell question:</b><br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
35But someone will say, “<b>How</b> are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Thus, at this point we have experienced 34 verses of I Cor. 15 which <u>focuses on the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ</u>--and there should be <b>no opportunity for misunderstanding of what this question is referring to below:</b><br />
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				 “<b>How</b> are the dead raised? And with what <b>kind of body </b>do they come?”
			
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	</div>
</div>In other words, Paul is indicating that someone might ask the following:<br />
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				“How are the dead raised (physically)? And with what kind of (physical) body do they come?”
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
After all, Paul spent <u><i>the first 34 verses of I Cor. 15 describing the Gospel message of the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ</i></u>--and that there <b>will be</b> a physical, bodily resurrection of those who have died at the coming of Christ.  <br />
<br />
Indeed, there are <b>no</b> major side issues than that.<br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
Also, Paul concludes this dialectic below thusly:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
36You fool! <b>That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; </b><br />
37and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. <br />
38But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. <br />
39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and  another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of  fish. <br />
40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of  the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. <br />
41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and  another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.<br />
<br />
<b>42<u>So also</u> is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; </b><br />
43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; <br />
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. <br />
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. <br />
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. <br />
47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. <br />
48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. <br />
<b>49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, the body of Jesus Christ was sown <b>a perishable body,</b> and after three days, it was raised <b>an imperishable body.</b>  In other words, it was raised <b>without corruption or decay--as Paul preached elsewhere:</b><br />
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				Acts 13 (Paul is preaching)<br />
32“And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, <br />
33that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that <b>He raised  up Jesus,</b> as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘YOU ARE MY SON;  TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.’ <br />
34“As for the fact that <b>He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to  return to decay,</b> He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY  and SURE blessings OF DAVID.’ <br />
35“Therefore He also says in another Psalm,<b> ‘YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.’ </b><br />
36“For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own  generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent  decay; <br />
<b>37but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And Paul affirms the same here below from the last portion of I Cor. 15:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the  kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. <br />
<b>51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, <br />
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the  trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we  will be changed. <br />
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. </b><br />
54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this  mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying  that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. <br />
55“O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” <br />
56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; <br />
57but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.<br />
<br />
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always  abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain  in the Lord.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And so, Paul's teaching on resurrection in I Cor. 15 is a teaching <b>which starts <u>with Christ and the Gospel</u> and ends with it.<br />
</b><br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
Finally, we go to a letter of Paul helps us in summarizing aspects of the dialectic of I Cor. 15:<br />
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				Col. 1<br />
9For in Him all <b>the fullness of Deity</b> dwells in bodily form, <br />
10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; <br />
11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without  hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of  Christ; <br />
12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, <b>who raised Him from the dead.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, Paul is indicating here that <b>Jesus is God.</b>  Thus, he is making the same statement the the writer of Hebrews is making:<br />
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				Heb. 1<br />
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, <br />
2in these last days has spoken to us <b>in His Son</b>, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. <br />
<b>3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of  His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had  made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty  on high,</b> <br />
4having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>However, notice that the writer of Hebrews is indicating that the Son Jesus <b>sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.</b>  And so, when did this happen?<b>  This happened after</b> Jesus made purification of sins.  Indeed, this has happened already:<br />
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				Heb. 12<br />
1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us,  let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily  entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before  us, <br />
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for  the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and <b>has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
And so, if Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Majesty, then <b>He is  King--even the King of Kings. </b> Of course, this means that <b>He is immortal  physically as well:</b><br />
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				I Tim. 6<br />
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and  of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius  Pilate, <br />
14that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, <br />
15which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, <b>the King of kings and Lord of lords, <br />
16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light,  whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion!  Amen.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div><b>Thus, no man is immortal at all right now--only Jesus; after all,  He is King of Kings and so on.</b>  And this must be a <b>physical glorified  body type</b> of immortality, because Paul indicates the following:<br />
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				Phil. 3<br />
20For our citizenship is <b>in heaven, from which</b> also <b>we eagerly wait</b> for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; <br />
21who <b><u>will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory</u></b>, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, Paul indicates that <b>&quot;we are&quot;</b> waiting eagerly for our Saviour Jesus to return from Heaven--even to <b>COME AGAIN.  </b><br />
<br />
And what will Jesus do when He comes again?<br />
<br />
<font color="#0000FF">Well, He will (among other things) transform <b>our</b> bodies to conform with <b>His</b> body according to Paul in Phil. 3; you know, the one <b>He has already right now.</b>   Indeed, His body is immortal at the right hand of the Father--it is  the very body that allows Paul to indicate that He &quot;alone possesses  immortality&quot; and so on in I Tim. 6.  Thus, the<b> &quot;hope&quot; of the church is Christ Himself:<br />
</b></font><br />
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				Col. 1<br />
3We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, <br />
4since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; <br />
<b>5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel </b><br />
6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly  bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also  since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; <br />
7just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, <br />
8and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit. <br />
<br />
Col. 1<br />
15He is <b>the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.</b> <br />
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth,  visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or  authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. <br />
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. <br />
<b>18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, </b>so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.<br />
<br />
Col. 1<br />
25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from  God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out  the preaching of the word of God, <br />
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, <br />
<b>27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of  this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of  glory. </b><br />
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all  wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
			
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	</div>
</div>:)</blockquote>

]]></content:encoded>
			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3304-resurrection-as-taught-by-Paul</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>. . . of the physical bodily resurrection of Christ . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3259-of-the-physical-bodily-resurrection-of-Christ</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 00:16:48 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
It seems that without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, our* faith is vain. * 
 
Yep.  
 
And it seems also that the Christian faith is *absolutely dependent upon it.* 
 
And so, let's have Paul tell it:]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
It seems that without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, our<b> faith is vain. </b><br />
<br />
Yep. <br />
<br />
And it seems also that the Christian faith is <b>absolutely dependent upon it.</b><br />
<br />
And so, let's have Paul tell it:<br />
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				1 Cor.15<br />
12 Now if Christ <b>be preached</b> that he rose from the dead, <b>how</b> say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, this verse indicates that Christ <b>was preached</b> that He rose from the dead; thus, no one can say that there is no resurrection from the dead, because that would mean that <b>Christ did not die for our sins and rise again from the dead and so on. </b><br />
<br />
(Indeed, one has to have died to even be put in position to be resurrected from the dead.)<br />
<br />
And Paul tells the rest of it here:<br />
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				1 Cor.15<br />
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then <b>is Christ not risen:</b><br />
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.<br />
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.<br />
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:<br />
17 And if Christ be not raised,<b> your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.  This is quite logical.<br />
<br />
Thus, Paul indicates the following:<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
20But <b>now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits </b>of those who are asleep.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, here Paul indicates that many are still dead physically already, but Christ has been raised <b>already</b> from the dead. <br />
<br />
And when Christ was raised from the dead, <b>He ascended up to the right hand of the Father with a glorified body to reign until death is abolished for &quot;those who are asleep&quot; and so on.</b> This means that Christ has abolished death already, but &quot;those that are asleep&quot; have not had death abolished yet. In other words, when Christ comes again, &quot;those who are asleep&quot; will be resurrected just as He was resurrected. This is what Paul is saying below:<br />
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				1 Cor. 15<br />
21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.<br />
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.<br />
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,<br />
24 then comes the end, . . .
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.  The end.<br />
<br />
Now, when is the end?<br />
<br />
Well, <b>the end</b> is <b>when</b> Christ comes the second time; thus, Christ's second coming features bodily resurrection--even at the last day:<br />
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				John 6<br />
40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life,<b> and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” </b><br />
<br />
Phil 3<br />
18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, <br />
19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. <br />
20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also <b>we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; <br />
21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Also, <b>the end </b>is<b> when</b> . . . well, let's let Paul tell it; he has <b>told us when the end is:</b><br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
24a . . . <b>when</b> He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, <b>when</b> He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.<br />
25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.<br />
26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>In other words, &quot;the end&quot; is &quot;when&quot; <b>bodily resurrection unto immortality occurs, because that's how death is &quot;cheated&quot; or abolished:</b><br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, <br />
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; <b>for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. <br />
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And apparently, it takes Kingdom power to &quot;cheat&quot; death, because after death is abolished, King Jesus will &quot;hand over&quot; the Kingdom to the Father when He has &quot;abolished&quot; death. This would mean that Jesus is the Immortal King already--and<b> before </b>the &quot;end&quot; comes. And there would have been no way for Jesus to be immortal physically--with a glorified body--unless that had occurred <b>when </b>He rose from the dead and ascended on high in the 1st century as our King and Priest.<br />
<br />
Finally, the main reason this age has lasted so long (ca. 2000 years so far and so on) is because of the longsuffering of our God--as Peter tells us below (in bold):<br />
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				I Pet. 3<br />
3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, <br />
<br />
4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” <br />
<br />
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, <br />
<br />
6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. <br />
<br />
7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.<br />
<br />
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. <br />
<br />
<b>9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. <br />
</b><br />
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.<br />
<br />
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, <br />
<br />
12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! <br />
<br />
13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div><br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title><![CDATA[" . . . of tares and wheat . . ."]]></title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3253-quot-of-tares-and-wheat-quot</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 20:54:24 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
Let's look again at the "tares and wheat" parable and its interpretation: 
 
 
---Quote--- 
Matt. 13 
24a Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be *compared . . .* 
---End Quote--- 
Stop right there.]]></description>
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<br />
<span style="font-family: tahoma"><font color="#333333">Let's look again at the &quot;tares and wheat&quot; parable and its interpretation:</font><br />
</span><br />
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				<font color="#333333"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
24a Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be <b>compared . . .</b></span><br />
</span></font>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div><span style="font-family: tahoma"><font color="#333333">Stop right there.</font><br />
<br />
<font color="#333333">Is not Jesus speaking about what the kingdom of heaven can be compared to? </font><br />
<br />
<font color="#333333">Indeed, he is describing the kingdom of heaven in the parable itself. </font><br />
<br />
<font color="#333333">And so, the Kingdom of heaven is <u>a DOMAIN over which the KING/PRIEST Jesus Christ is ruling</u>; this DOMAIN contains &quot;wheat&quot; (righteous people) and &quot;tares&quot; (unrighteous people); this is what this parable is</font></span><b><span style="font-family: tahoma"> about.</span><br />
<br />
</b>Continuing . . .<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
24b . . . to a man who sowed good seed in his field.<br />
25 “But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.<br />
</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And so, we have Satan sowing &quot;tares&quot; among the &quot;wheat&quot; that had <u>been sown already by Jesus</u>; indeed, Satan did this while &quot;the men of Jesus&quot; were sleeping. Continuing . . .<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
26 “But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.<br />
27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’<br />
28 “And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’<br />
29 “But he said, <b>‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.</b><br />
</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep. <br />
Now, this section is explicit in the truth that the &quot;tares&quot; look like the &quot;wheat&quot;; this became evident when the wheat sprouted and bore grain. Thus, only the reapers can &quot;first gather up the tares&quot; . . . and &quot;gather the wheat&quot;--<u>and this is done at the same time--&quot;harvest time&quot;--as taught below</u>:<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”<br />
</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And notice <u>Jesus' own interpretation of aspects of the &quot;wheat and tares&quot; parable below</u>--He tells us <b>specifically what we need to know</b> about the DOMAIN of the Kingdom of heaven in Matt. 13:37-50.  Here we go:<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
37 And He (Jesus) said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,<br />
38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;<br />
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, Jesus has covered <b>ALL mankind</b> in these three verses above from Matt. 13:37-39--and in 2 people groups: righteous (&quot;wheat&quot;) and unrighteous (&quot;tares&quot;). And apparently, Jesus is unapologetic in His declaration that the DOMAIN of the Kingdom of heaven <b><u>has ONLY 2 kinds of people in it</u></b>. Also, the end of the age is &quot;harvest time&quot;---and the angels do the reaping.<br />
<br />
Continuing . . .<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma">Matt. 13<br />
40 “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.<br />
41 “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,<br />
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.<br />
43 “Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.<br />
</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, this passage confirms the truth the that angels have insight into what should be gathered out . . . of His kingdom; this is the reason that <u>the Kingdom would have been <b>a present reality before</b> the gathering at &quot;harvest time&quot; and so on</u>. <br />
<br />
Also, the righteous are not thrown in the furnace of fire, but the unrighteous is thrown in the furnace of fire; thus, there is a gathering for separation of both the &quot;tares&quot; and the &quot;wheat&quot; at the same time: at the end of this current age--as also taught below by Jesus as well:<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Tahoma"><i>Matt. 13</i><br />
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; <br />
48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. <br />
<br />
<b>49“So it will be at the end of the age; </b>the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, <br />
50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.</span>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title><![CDATA[. . . of the "unholy trinity" and the second death . . .]]></title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3203-of-the-quot-unholy-trinity-quot-and-the-second-death</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 01:05:11 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
It appears that the second death is _spiritual separation from God for all eternity_.   
 
And there is _torment and punishment in that place_ *forever*; thus, it is not a "cessation" from existence *at all *for the participants.  And...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
It appears that the second death is <u>spiritual separation from God for all eternity</u>.  <br />
<br />
And there is <u>torment and punishment in that place</u> <b>forever</b>; thus, it is not a &quot;cessation&quot; from existence <b>at all </b>for the participants.  And remember, <u>forever</u> is a <u>mighty looooooong</u> time, yes?<br />
<br />
So now, let's look at the fate of the &quot;unholy trinity&quot; and so on in Rev.  20:10.  Notice that the fate of the &quot;unholy trinity&quot; is <u><b>linked</b></u> to the fate of <b>the devil--the critical word in the verse is &quot;<u>they</u>&quot;:</b><br />
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				                                                         Rev. 20<br />
10And <b>the devil</b> who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where<b> the beast</b> and <b>the false prophet</b> are also; and <b><u>they</u></b> will be <u>tormented day and night forever and ever</u>.
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep.  (Did you see it?)<br />
<br />
The word &quot;<u><b>they</b></u>&quot; in Rev. 20:10 refers to <b>the devil</b> <u>as well as</u> <b>the beast</b> and <b>the false prophet</b>.  Thus, &quot;<u><b>they</b></u>&quot; will be existing in the second death in torments--<b><u>all three of them</u></b>.  And we know already that the devil is a <b>spirit </b>being--a fallen angel.  But are the beast and the false prophet <b>spirits</b> at all?  <br />
<br />
No.  :no:<br />
<br />
Indeed, when John mentions the beast and false prophet in the book of Revelation, he <u><b>sees them</b> </u> in various <b>visions</b>,  yes?  And so, if the beast and false prophet are cast &quot;alive&quot; in the  second death, then it seems to me that the term &quot;alive&quot; would speak  simply to <b>what they are <u>before</u></b> they get cast there:<br />
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				 Rev. 17<br />
3And he carried me away <b>in the Spirit</b> into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on <b>a scarlet beast</b>, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.  John saw <i><u>in the Spirit</u></i> <b>a scarlet beast</b>.  And is this not <b>the same beast</b> as here?<br />
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				Rev. 17<br />
7And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you <u>the mystery</u> of the woman and of <b>the beast</b> that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
			
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	</div>
</div>And here?<br />
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				Rev. 17<br />
<b>8“The beast <u>that you saw</u> was, and is not, and is about to come up</b>  out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the  earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the  foundation of the world, will wonder when <b>they see</b> the beast, that <b>he was and is not and will come.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>So, the question has to be this: <b>what </b>is the beast of Revelation anyway?  And we know that<b> those who dwell on the earth </b>are supposed to <b>wonder</b> when they <b>see</b> the beast.  But <b>what</b> will happen to them?  Here's Rev. 14:9-11 on this:<br />
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				Rev. 14<br />
9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “<b>If anyone</b> worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, <br />
10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; <u>and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. <br />
11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no  rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and  whoever receives the mark of his name.” </u>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.  It is the <b>unbelievers</b> which worship the beast and his image; they will be <b>tormented</b> in the second death as  a result.  <br />
<br />
And so, it seems to me that <u>the beast</u> and <u>the false prophet</u> &quot;symbolize&quot; the &quot;political/governmental system&quot; that receives <u>allegiance from unbelievers through DECEPTION of the devil</u>.  <br />
<br />
In other words, unbelievers worship the &quot;unholy trinity&quot;--and to their <b>own </b>hurt.<br />
<br />
Thus, it seems that the &quot;political/governmental system&quot; will be cast  &quot;alive&quot; into the second death.  And notice the verse below--there are  three &quot;things&quot; that John sees therein:<br />
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				Rev. 19<br />
19And <b>I saw <br />
</b>1)<b> <u>the beast</u></b> and <br />
2) <u><b>the kings of the earth</b></u> and <br />
3) <u><b>their armies</b></u> <br />
assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, two of the &quot;things&quot; above--<u>the kings of the earth</u> and <u>their armies</u> are &quot;<u>the rest&quot; (that were killed)</u> as recorded in Rev. 19:21; the &quot;killing is <u>needed</u> to <b>get them</b> <u>into</u> the second death:<br />
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				 Rev. 19<br />
21<b>And the rest were killed</b> with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
			
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	</div>
</div>But since the beast and the false prophet &quot;symbolize&quot; the  &quot;political/governmental system&quot; power, it can be simply &quot;thrown alive&quot;  into the second death:<br />
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				Rev. 19<br />
20And <b>the beast</b> was seized, and with him <b>the false prophet</b>  who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who  had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image;  these <b>two were thrown alive </b>into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
			
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	</div>
</div>And of course, death and Hell are treated similarly:<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and <b>death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them</b>; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. <br />
14Then <b>death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.</b>  This is the second death, the lake of fire. <br />
15And if <b>anyone’s</b> name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And remember, all of this happens <b>after</b> the &quot;1000 years&quot;--and <b>during</b> Satan's little season and so on.<br />
<br />
Interesting . . .<br />
<br />
:saint:</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title>. . . of the beast, harlot, and physical death . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3141-of-the-beast-harlot-and-physical-death</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:41:23 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
One of the critical aspects of the "millennium" has to do with *the beast* in this verse: 
 
 
---Quote--- 
Rev. 20 
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
One of the critical aspects of the &quot;millennium&quot; has to do with <b>the beast</b> in this verse:<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped <b>the beast </b>or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And the beast <b>demanded</b> worship <u>by deception</u> of the false prophet; the alternative to beast worship, of course, was physical death by martyrdom:<br />
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				Rev. 13<br />
15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and <b>cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>And so, <u>how many people</u> have been killed by <b>the beast</b> already and so on?  Well, how many people have been killed by <b>the harlot already? </b>Remember, <b>the beast</b> and <b>the harlot</b> <u>cannot be separated in time</u>: indeed, the harlot &quot;<u>sits</u>&quot; on the beast, and the beast &quot;<u>carries</u>&quot; the harlot:<br />
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				Rev. 17<br />
3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman <b>sitting</b> on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. <br />
4The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, <br />
5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” <br />
6<b><u>And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. </u></b><br />
7And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that <b>carries</b> her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep.  The beast and the harlot have &quot;relations&quot; indeed.  And notice that the woman (harlot) was &quot;drunk with the blood of the saints and the witnesses of Jesus&quot; and so on.  And did not the harlot kill Saint Stephen of the book of Acts?  Did not the beast kill the Apostle James of the book of Acts?  Here we go:<br />
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				Acts 7<br />
51“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. <br />
52“Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; <br />
53you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.” <br />
<br />
54Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. <br />
55But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; <br />
56and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” <br />
57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. <br />
58When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. <br />
<b>59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” <br />
60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.</b><br />
<br />
Acts 12<br />
1Now about that time Herod the king laid hands on some who belonged to the church in order to mistreat them. <br />
<b>2And he had James the brother of John put to death with a sword. </b><br />
3When he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. Now it was during the days of Unleavened Bread. <br />
4When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people. <br />
5So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
And thus,<b> the beast </b>and <b>the harlot</b> has been around for a <u>looooooooooooong</u> time and so on <b>already</b>.  Thus, the VISION of Rev. 20:4 <b>includes</b> the physical death of <u>martyrs of the beast of the first-century time</u>; it is <b>not </b>just in our future from now.  <br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
And Rev. 20:5 indicates that the <b>beheaded martyrs </b>of the VISION of Rev. 20:4 as well as <b>the rest </b>. . . are <u><b>DEAD</b></u> . . . and did not come to life (physically) until the thousand years were concluded:<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
 5<b>The rest</b>  . . . <u>of the dead</u> <b>did not come to life</b> until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. <br />
6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him <u>for a thousand years</u>.
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
 . . . <u>for a thousand years</u> . . .&quot;<br />
<br />
:hmm:<br />
<br />
<font size="1"><i><font color="#0000FF">(Do you see what I am getting at?)</font></i></font><br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title><![CDATA[Death . . . and the "postmillennial" Return of Christ]]></title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3124-Death-and-the-quot-postmillennial-quot-Return-of-Christ</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:45:12 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
Now, if Christ's Second Coming is "postmillennial" and so on, then that would mean that *DEATH is everywhere on earth _before_* He returns. In other words, *that's what the "millennium" is about--_DEATH_*.  
 
Indeed, *DEATH* is *the "last"...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
Now, if Christ's Second Coming is &quot;postmillennial&quot; and so on, then that would mean that <b>DEATH is everywhere on earth <u>before</u></b> He returns. In other words, <b>that's what the &quot;millennium&quot; is about--<u>DEATH</u></b>. <br />
<br />
Indeed, <b>DEATH</b> is <b>the &quot;last&quot; enemy that Christ is <u>currently</u> ruling over as King right NOW during our current age:</b><br />
<br />
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				I Cor. 15<br />
23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, <br />
24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. <br />
<b>25For He must reign until </b>He has put all His enemies under His feet. <br />
<b>26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And look at the &quot;last enemy--<b>DEATH</b>&quot; in this verse below:<br />
<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
5 But <b>the rest . </b>. .<b> of the dead</b> lived not again <u>until the thousand years were finished</u>. This is the first resurrection.
			
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	</div>
</div>. . . <b>the rest</b> (of them) . . the rest of <b>the DEAD</b> . . . <br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
In other words, Rev. 20:5 indicates <i><u>grammatically</u></i> that Rev. 20:4 deals with <b>DEAD people</b>:<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: <b>and I saw <u>the souls</u> of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;</b> <u>and they lived and reigned</u> with Christ a thousand years.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Indeed, the individuals in bold in Rev. 20: 4 above are <b>DEAD physically.</b><br />
<br />
And so, John sees <u><i>the souls</i></u> . . . of <b>DEAD people</b>--that <u><i>the souls</i></u> of <b>DEAD people</b> are <u>living and reigning</u>. <u><b>However, these are <i>still</i> DEAD people physically.</b></u> <br />
<br />
Why?<br />
<br />
Because Rev. 20:5 indicates <u>that the <b>first</b> group of <b>DEAD people</b> are <b>NOT the only DEAD people</b> that John saw in the VISION</u>--John saw <b><u>the rest</u> . . . of them also.</b><br />
<br />
Indeed, John saw . . . <u><b>the rest</b></u> . . . of the <b>DEAD . . .</b><br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
And so, this means that <b><u>all</u> physically DEAD people</b> are awaiting<u> physical resurrection--just like you and I are</u>. And there is only <u><b>ONE</b></u> physical resurrection of <b><u>both</u> the righteous and the wicked--as taught by Paul:</b><br />
<br />
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				Acts 24 (from the Apostle Paul)<br />
14“But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;<br />
15having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be <b><u>a</u> resurrection of <u>both</u> the righteous and the wicked.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Thus, the lake of fire <u>is future from now</u>, and is awaiting <b><u>the rest</u> of the DEAD</b> only. <br />
<br />
And the <b>rest of the DEAD</b> do not come alive <b>physically</b> until the thousand years <b>are over</b>. <u>This means that <b>the same is true</b> of the beheaded SAINTS; remember, they are still <b>DEAD physically</b> as well--and <b>during</b> the thousand years</u>.  But the beheaded <b>DEAD</b> are <u><b>not</b></u> awaiting the lake of fire; why? <br />
<br />
Well, because the lake of fire has <b>NO POWER</b> over them; remember that the lake of fire <b>is </b>the second death, yes?<br />
<br />
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				Rev. 20<br />
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: <b>on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Thus, the first resurrection is <b>not</b> physical, but is spiritual, yes?<br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title>The souls of martyrs . . . what do they really want?</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/3091-The-souls-of-martyrs-what-do-they-really-want</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:10:37 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:)Let's look closely at what the souls of martyrs are *_really_* asking for in Rev. 6: 
 
---Quote--- 
Rev. 6 
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who _had been slain_ because of the word of God, and...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<font color="#333333"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><br />
<br />
</span></font>Let's look closely at what the souls of martyrs are <i><b><u>really</u></b></i> asking for in Rev. 6:<br />
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				Rev. 6<br />
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who <u>had been slain</u> because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; <br />
10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from <b>judging . . . </b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Stop right there.<br />
<br />
The <u>souls</u> are asking about <u><i>when judgment will occur by our God</i></u>. <br />
<br />
And it is this judgment of God which will do the following:<br />
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				Rev. 6: 10b . . . and <b><u>avenge</u></b>(ing) our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep. The judgment of the Lord will <b>avenge</b> those who <u><b>had</b> been slain</u>.  This would achieve congruence with the following truth, yes?<br />
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				Rom. 12<br />
19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.
			
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	</div>
</div>And so, what did the Lord <b>tell</b> those souls in Rev. 6? Here we are:<br />
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				Rev. 6<br />
11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest <u>for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also</u>.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep. The Lord indicated that there would be <u>additional martyrs to follow these that <b>had</b> been slain</u>. And so, how many martyrs <u>has that been so far</u>--and throughout our current age <b>already?</b> Foxe's Book of Martyrs contains a lot of them, yes?  And apparently, the <u><b>judgment</b> that is being sought by the martyrs of Rev. 6 will not occur <b>until</b> the 7th trumpet</u>:<br />
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				Rev. 11<br />
 15Then <u>the seventh angel sounded</u>; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,<br />
      “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” <br />
16And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, <br />
17saying,<br />
      “We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. <br />
18“And the nations were enraged, and Your <b>wrath</b> came, and the time came for <b>the dead to be judged</b>, and <b>the time to reward</b> Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and <b>to destroy</b> those who destroy the earth.”
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep. There will come <u><b>a time</b></u> for judgment--and at <u><b>that time</b></u> there will also be <b>reward</b> for the saints, <b>destruction</b> of the wicked, and <b>wrath</b> as well.  Apparently, this achieves <u>congruency</u> with the following as well, yes?<br />
<br />
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				John 5<br />
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which <b>all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, <br />
29and will come forth</b>; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of <b>life</b>, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of <b>judgment.<br />
</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>And <u>the resurrection of life for the righteous</u> occurs on the last day:<br />
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				John 6<br />
40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and <b>I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Also, <u>the resurrection of judgment of the wicked</u> occurs at the last day:<br />
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				John 12<br />
48“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; <b>the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Yes?<br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title>. . . of the Kingdom of God, the Pharisees, and Judgment by Fire</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2968-of-the-Kingdom-of-God-the-Pharisees-and-Judgment-by-Fire</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 06:02:35 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>:) 
 
It seems useful to discuss and provide a bit of commentary on the following passage: Luke 17:20-33. Additional verses will be referenced also, so here we go . . . :saint: 
 
 
---Quote--- 
Luke 17 
20 And when he was *demanded of the...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
It seems useful to discuss and provide a bit of commentary on the following passage: Luke 17:20-33. Additional verses will be referenced also, so here we go . . . :saint:<br />
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				Luke 17<br />
20 And when he was <b>demanded of the Pharisees</b>, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered <b>them</b> and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:<br />
21 Neither shall they say, <b>Lo here! or, lo there! </b>for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, it is clear that the Pharisees <b>did not like</b> Jesus at all. (We do know that, yes?)<br />
<br />
Nevertheless, the Pharisees were looking for Jesus to institute a geo-political Kingdom that would <b>overthrow</b> the Roman government. And this is the reason that they <u><b>&quot;demanded&quot;</b></u> that Jesus tell them when the Kingdom of God would come. After all, they felt <b>pridefully </b>that they--as the leaders in Jerusalem--&quot;deserved&quot; to have authority over Rome and so on.<br />
<br />
Therefore, Jesus <b>told the Pharisees</b> that the Kingdom of God does <b>not</b> come in that manner at all. Why?<br />
<br />
Well, because the Kingdom of God is <b>not</b> of this geo-political world concept <b>at all</b>--it expresses itself specifically<b> through spiritual AUTHORITY and POWER:</b><br />
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				Luke 11<br />
14And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed. <br />
15But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.” <br />
16Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven. <br />
17But He knew their thoughts and said to them, <b>“Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls. <br />
18“If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. <br />
19“And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges. <br />
20“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.</b> 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And therefore, Jesus is indicating <b>to the Pharisees</b> that the <b>Kingdom of God</b> was in the &quot;midst&quot; of <b>the Pharisees</b>--because <b>Jesus the KING </b>was there among <b>them</b>. Thus, the Kingdom of God <b>does not come</b> in the &quot;observation&quot; of geo-political governments (&quot;Lo here&quot; or &quot;Lo there&quot;) and the like.<br />
<br />
However, we know that the Pharisees had <b>rejected Jesus as KING</b> already--in no uncertain terms; they were indeed plotting His eventual death and so on. And this brings us to the next set of verses below:<br />
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				Luke 17<br />
22 And he said unto <b>the disciples</b>, The days will come, when <b>ye</b> shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.<br />
23 And <b>they</b> shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.<br />
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.<br />
25 But<b> first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.</b> 
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, we <b>know </b>who rejected Jesus, yes? It was the<b> Pharisees</b> and the other leaders in Jerusalem of that first-century time, indeed.<br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
And we <b>know</b> also that Jesus delivered to His disciples the following parallel &quot;trouble&quot; passages of the Olivet Discourse as recorded in Luke 21 and Matt. 24:<br />
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				Luke 21<br />
10Then He continued by saying to them, “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, <br />
11and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. <br />
<b>12“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. </b><br />
13“It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. <br />
14“So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; <br />
15for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. <b><br />
16“But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, <br />
17and you will be hated by all because of My name. </b><br />
18“Yet not a hair of your head will perish. <br />
19“By your endurance you will gain your lives.<br />
<br />
Matt. 24<br />
3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, <b>the disciples</b> came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”<br />
<br />
4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. <br />
5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. <br />
6“You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. <br />
7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. <br />
8“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.<br />
<br />
<b>9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.</b> 
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, some questions and answers apropos Matt. 24:9 (and the parallel passage of Luke 21 above) are given below: <br />
<br />
1) Who delivered the disciples to tribulation? <b>The Pharisees.</b><br />
2) Who went about killing the disciples? <b>The Pharisees.</b><br />
3) Which nation of that time did <b>not</b> hate the disciples? <b>Not one.<br />
</b>4) Who put the disciples in prison and persecuted them? <b>The Pharisees.</b><br />
<br />
And so, it is clear that the disciples of that first-century time were going to experience a <b>LOT</b> of tribulation &quot;trouble&quot; during the days to come from the Pharisees, and were duty-bound to seek &quot;deliverance&quot; from &quot;trouble&quot; through <b>Christ Jesus the Deliverer</b> and so on. Thus, this brings us back to Luke 17:22 and the context:<br />
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				Luke 17<br />
22 And he said unto <b>the disciples</b>, The days will come, when <b>ye</b> shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.<br />
23 And <b>they</b> shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.<br />
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.<br />
25 But <b>first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.</b> 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, notice above that Jesus is indicating in Luke 17:22 <b>to His disciples</b> that &quot;the days of the Son of Man&quot; <b>will not be seen by the disciples</b> <i><u>in the manner that many will suggest</u>--with &quot;&quot;see here&quot; or &quot;see there&quot; elements.</i> And &quot;the days of the Son of Man&quot; is taken up with &quot;deliverance&quot; aspects, indeed. <br />
<br />
(This is what the disciples would indeed be looking for, yes? The disciples would indeed want deliverance from the persecution and killing of those who were the &quot;leadership&quot; in Jerusalem: <b>the Pharisees</b> <b>and chief priests</b>.)<br />
<br />
Thus, Jesus tells the disciples that the &quot;days of the Son of man&quot; will feature &quot;deliverance&quot; for the disciples of that <i>first-century time</i> <b>from their enemies--and it would occur like &quot;lightning&quot;. <font color="blue">And therefore, </font></b><font color="blue">Luke 17:22-24 deals <b>specifically</b> with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple of Herod.</font> <br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, that &quot;deliverance&quot; will feature days of <b>vengeance</b> on the <b>enemies</b> of Christ, the prophets, and the disciples--as taught here:<br />
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				Luke 21<br />
<b>20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.</b> <br />
21“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; <br />
22because<b> these are days of vengeance</b>, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. <br />
23“Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; <br />
24<b>and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.</b> 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And remember, Jesus said the following also apropos <b>the Pharisees and chief priests and so on</b>:<br />
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				Luke 20<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-9.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">9</font></b></a>And He began to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard and rented it out to vine-growers, and went on a journey for a long time. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-10.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">10</font></b></a>“At the <i>harvest</i> time he sent <b>a slave to the vine-growers</b>, so that they would give him <i>some</i> of the produce of the vineyard; but <b>the vine-growers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. </b><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-11.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">11</font></b></a>“And he proceeded <b>to send another slave</b>; and <b>they beat him also and treated him shamefully and sent him away empty-handed. </b><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-12.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">12</font></b></a>“And he proceeded to<b> send a third</b>; and this one also they wounded and cast out. <font color="blue"><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-13.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">13</font></b></a>“The owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; perhaps they will respect him.’ </font><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-14.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">14</font></b></a>“But when the vine-growers saw him, they reasoned with one another, saying, <b>‘This is the heir; let us kill him so that the inheritance will be ours.’ <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-15.htm" target="_blank"><font color="#417394">15</font></a>“So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. </b>What, then, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? <br />
<font color="red"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-16.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">16</font></b></a>“He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others.”</font> When they heard it, they said, “May it never be!” <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-17.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">17</font></b></a>But Jesus looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written:<br />
‘THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,<br />
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER <i>stone</i>’?<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-18.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">18</font></b></a>“Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust.” <br />
<br />
<b><a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/luke/20-19.htm" target="_blank"><font color="#417394">19</font></a>The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them.</b> 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
And so, the rest of the passage below deals with the Second Coming of Christ at the end of our current age. Also, the text in <b>underlined bold </b>below (Luke 17:31) is quite interesting indeed:<br />
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				Luke 17<br />
26 And as it was <b>in the days of Noe</b>, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.<br />
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and <b><font color="blue">destroyed them all.</font></b><br />
28 Likewise also as it was <b>in the days of Lot;</b> they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;<br />
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and <b><font color="blue">destroyed them all.</font></b><br />
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.<br />
<b><u>31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.<br />
</u></b>32 Remember Lot's wife.<br />
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now the text in <font color="blue"><b>blue bold</b></font> above tells us that <b>all was destroyed</b> in this &quot;days of the Son of Man&quot; indeed, yes? And the <b>&quot;all&quot;</b> that was destroyed has to be <b>all of the unfaithful of the earth</b>--as expressed here in the parallel passage below also:<br />
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				Matt. 24<br />
37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like <b>the days of Noah.</b> <br />
38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, <br />
39and they did not understand until the flood came and <b>took them all away</b>; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. <br />
40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. <br />
41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And so, when Jesus speaks of the destruction of Sodom and so on, He is focusing on the &quot;total destruction&quot; aspect of the judgment destruction <b>BY FIRE</b>--and <b>not</b> that the judgment <b>BY FIRE</b> is &quot;localized&quot; to a few cities and so on.<br />
<br />
Thus, when we get to verses 31-33 of Luke 17:<br />
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				Luke 17<br />
31 <b>In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.</b><br />
32<i><u> Remember Lot's wife.</u></i><br />
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>we <b>know</b> that the context is <b>made</b>, yes? What context is that? Well, let's look at it from Genesis 19:<br />
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				Gen. 19<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-23.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">23</font></b></a>The sun had risen over the earth when Lot came to Zoar. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">24</font></b></a>Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah <b>brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, </b><br />
<b><a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-25.htm" target="_blank"><font color="#417394">25</font></a>and He overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. </b><br />
<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-26.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">26</font></b></a><u>But his wife, from behind him, looked <i>back,</i> and she became a pillar of salt. </u><br />
<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-27.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">27</font></b></a>Now Abraham arose early in the morning <i>and went</i> to the place where he had stood before the LORD; <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-28.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">28</font></b></a>and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the valley, and he saw, <b>and behold, the smoke of the land ascended like the smoke of a furnace.</b> <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/genesis/19-29.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">29</font></b></a>Thus it came about, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived. 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, Jesus does not want anyone to relent in their faithfulness to Christ--and so forfeit the reward for faith to be administered to the saints at the end of this age. The alternative to the reward, of course, is <b>judgment BY FIRE</b>; the unbelievers will experience that judgment. Indeed, all will be burned up: <u><b>property as well as people</b></u>--as suggested by Gen. 19:24-25 and II Pet. 3 below:<br />
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				II Peter 3<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-10.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">10</font></b></a>But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, <b>in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.</b> <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-11.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">11</font></b></a>Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-12.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">12</font></b></a>looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, <b>because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! </b><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/2_peter/3-13.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">13</font></b></a>But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div><br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2968-of-the-Kingdom-of-God-the-Pharisees-and-Judgment-by-Fire</guid>
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			<title>. . . of Jesus, Lazarus, and the significance of resurrection</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2940-of-Jesus-Lazarus-and-the-significance-of-resurrection</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 14:56:43 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>:) 
 
We need to remember that there is considerably more significance to the resurrection of Jesus Christ than that of Lazarus, and it is this: _our Lord Jesus Christ is the *first and only* person who has achieved immortality in this age by...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore"><span style="font-family: Georgia"><font size="2">:)<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: garamond">We need to remember that there is considerably more significance to the resurrection of Jesus Christ than that of Lazarus, and it is this: <u>our Lord Jesus Christ is the <b>first and only</b> person who has achieved <i>immortality</i> in this age by resurrection at this time.</u><br />
<br />
In other words, Jesus Christ came specifically to <b>abolish</b> death--and this is what he did at His first coming. And how did Jesus <b>abolish</b> death? <br />
<br />
Well, he became<b> immortal.<br />
<br />
Yep. :yes:<br />
<br />
</b></span></font></span><span style="font-family: garamond"><font size="2">Indeed, Christ became <i>immortal</i> when He rose from the dead for you and I: <b>He is the <u><i>first fruits</i></u> of what will happen to the saints as we rise from the dead bodily at the Second Coming of Christ </b>(assuming that we are not living physically when Christ returns, of course).<br />
<br />
So, because Christ rose from the dead physically by the power of the Holy Spirit, all believers will be resurrected physically to <i>immortality</i> as well--<b>but only when Christ Jesus returns the second time:</b> <br />
</font><br />
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				<font size="2">1 Cor. 15<br />
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.<br />
23 But each in his own order: <b><font color="black">Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s</font></b><font color="navy"> (will be resurrected physically)</font> <b><font color="black">at His coming,</font></b><br />
24 <b>then comes the end</b>, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when <b>He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.</b><br />
25For He must reign until He has put <b>all His enemies under His feet</b>. <b><br />
26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. <br />
<br />
</b>I Cor. 15<br />
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. <br />
51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, <br />
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. <br />
53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. <br />
<b>54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.</b><br />
<br />
Phil 3:<br />
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, <b><font color="black">the Lord Jesus Christ;<br />
21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory,</font></b> by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.<br />
<br />
Heb. 9<br />
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die <b><font color="black">once</font></b> and after this comes judgment,<br />
28 so Christ also, having been offered <font color="black"><b>once</b></font> to bear the sins of many, will appear a <b><font color="black">second</font></b> time for <b><u><i>salvation</i></u></b> without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.</font>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div><font size="2"><br />
Therefore, there is only <b>one resurrection--and at one &quot;point&quot; in time (at the Second Coming of Christ)--which will allow <i>the glorified body of eternal salvation</i> to be given out to the saints as a reward for faith . . . <br />
<br />
And because Jesus rose from the dead immortal, it makes this passage true below: <br />
</b></font><br />
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				<font size="2">I Tim. 1<br />
12I thank <b>Christ Jesus our Lord</b>, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, <br />
13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; <br />
14and <b>the grace of our Lord</b> was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in <b>Christ Jesus. </b><br />
15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that <b>Christ Jesus </b>came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. <br />
16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, <b>Jesus Christ </b>might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe <b>in Him </b>for eternal life. <br />
17Now to<b> <u>the King</u> eternal, immortal, invisible, <u>the only God,</u> </b>be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.</font> 
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And therefore, Lazarus, <b>had</b> to have died again at some point after Jesus caused him to rise from the dead (as recorded in John 11), because Lazarus was still <b>mortal</b> . . .<br />
<br />
And if this is not true, then this passage from Rev. 21 <i>has to be called into question</i>--<b>since death and mortality are of the &quot;former things&quot;:</b><br />
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				<font size="2"><font color="black">Rev. 21<br />
<b>1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:</b> for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.<br />
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.<br />
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.<br />
<b>4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.</b><br />
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. <br />
</font></font>
			
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	</div>
</div><br />
:)<br />
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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2940-of-Jesus-Lazarus-and-the-significance-of-resurrection</guid>
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			<title>. . . of Kingdom Restoration, the New Birth, and the Rest  . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2903-of-Kingdom-Restoration-the-New-Birth-and-the-Rest</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:52:05 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
It is apparent that there are many that suggest that there shall  be an "literal physical earthly reign of Christ" in our future and so  on.  In particular, there is a notion that the "Kingdom"  will be "restored to Israel" at some point per...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
It is apparent that there are many that suggest that there shall  be an &quot;literal physical earthly reign of Christ&quot; in our future and so  on.  In particular, there is a notion that the &quot;Kingdom&quot;  will be &quot;restored to Israel&quot; at some point per Acts 1 and so on. <br />
<br />
And so, it seems useful to <b><u>address this directly</u></b>--and with a bit of detail . . . :saint:<br />
<br />
First of all, let's go the appropriate passage from Acts 1:<br />
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				                                                         Acts 1<br />
      1The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, <br />
2until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. <br />
3To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many  convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and  speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. <br />
4Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but  to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard  of from Me; <br />
5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”<br />
      <b>6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying,  “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?”</b> <br />
<u><font color="red">7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; <br />
8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and  you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and  Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”</font></u><br />
9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. <br />
10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. <br />
11They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the  sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come  in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”
			
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	</div>
</div>OK.<br />
<br />
Now, who asked the question of Acts 1:6?  <b>The disciples did.</b><br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
And so, <i><u>was this question an appropriate one from the disciples?</u></i><br />
<br />
<u><b>No.  </b></u><br />
<br />
Why?<br />
<br />
Well, because of <b>Jesus' <u>answer</u> to the question in Acts 1:7-8.    </b>Notice that Jesus' answer is <b>connected directly to His mission command of <u>witness</u></b> for the anointed disciples--and <b>not</b> a &quot;restoration of a Kingdom to Israel&quot; at all.  And besides all this, Jesus had provided the following<b> already </b>to the leaders in Jerusalem--as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew:<br />
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				Matthew 21<br />
33“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A  VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A  TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. <br />
34“When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. <br />
35“The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. <br />
36“Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. <br />
37“But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ <br />
38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves,  ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ <br />
39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. <br />
40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” <br />
41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and  will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the  proceeds at the proper seasons.”<br />
42Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,<br />
         ‘THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,<br />
         THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;<br />
         THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,<br />
         AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’?<br />
<br />
<b>43“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and <u>given to a people</u>, producing the fruit of it.<br />
44“And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust.”</b> <br />
45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, the chief priests and Pharisees had <b>rejected</b> Jesus, and had the Kingdom taken from them <b>already</b>.  And so, the disciples were asking a question that could <b>not at all</b> be answered in the affirmative by Jesus.<br />
<br />
That's right. <br />
<br />
And so, how do people &quot;produce the fruit&quot; of the Kingdom--as suggested by Jesus in Matthew 21:42:43?<br />
<br />
Well, they have to enter the Kingdom of God by <b>believing the Gospel that was to be preached by the anointed disciples--and by command of Jesus in Acts 1:7-8:</b><br />
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				 Acts 1<br />
7He said to them,<b> “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; <br />
8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and  you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and  Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>In other words, the disciples asked Jesus a question in Acts 1:6 that revealed <b>their lack of understanding of the nature of the Kingdom of God.</b>  Indeed, it is clear that <b>all</b>  who believe the Gospel that was preached by the anointed disciples of  that day (as well as others who preach the Gospel today and so on) <b>are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of the Son of God--and receive forgiveness of sins as well:</b><br />
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				Col. 1<br />
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and <b>transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, <br />
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.</b>                      
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And so, if those who believe the Gospel are <b>not in the Kingdom of God right now, then Col. 1:13-14 has to be called into question.</b><br />
<br />
Really.<br />
<br />
Also, we have the following from Jesus:<br />
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				Matt. 6<br />
     7“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as  the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many  words. <br />
8“So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.<br />
<br />
      9“Pray, then, in this way:<br />
         ‘Our Father who is in heaven,<br />
         Hallowed be Your name.<br />
<br />
<b>10‘Your kingdom come.<br />
         Your will be done,<br />
         On earth as it is in heaven.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, what could Matt. 6:10 be indicating?  It could <b>not</b> be dealing with a &quot;literal physical earthly reign of Christ&quot; in our future in any manner, because Jesus has said <b>already</b> in John 18 that His Kingdom<br />
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				John 18<br />
36 . . . is not of this world: <b>if</b> my kingdom were of this world, <u><b>then</b></u> would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>--and we know that Jesus' servants <u><b>did not fight that day</b></u>, yes?<br />
<br />
<i><font size="1"><font color="blue">(Indeed, Jesus' servants did <b>not</b> fight . . .)<br />
</font></font></i> <br />
Thus, we have to assume that the phrase &quot;thy Kingdom come&quot; is mapped  simply to a <b>parallel </b>concept of &quot;the will of God being done on earth&quot;  indeed--<u>this is what Jesus is asking in His prayer</u>.<br />
<br />
And that is what <b>we</b> must ask also of the Father daily in prayer, yes?  We do know that God's will is done <b>definitely </b>in heaven, yes?<br />
<br />
Finally, let's look at the verses below--from Daniel 2:<br />
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				Dan. 2<br />
31 “You, O king, were looking and behold, there was <b>a single great statue</b>; that statue, which was large and of extraordinary splendor, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was awesome.<br />
32 “The head of that statue was made of fine <b>gold</b>, its breast and its arms of <b>silver</b>, its belly and its thighs of <b>bronze</b>,<br />
33 its legs of <b>iron</b>, its feet <b>partly of iron and partly of clay</b>.<br />
34 “You continued looking <b>until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.</b><br />
35 “Then the <b>iron</b>, the <b>clay</b>, the <b>bronze</b>, the <b>silver</b> and the <b>gold</b> were crushed <u><b>all at the same time</b></u> and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found.<b> But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Now, there are 4 &quot;earthly kingdoms&quot; represented in the passage above: <b>how</b> did any person become a member of any of the &quot;earthly&quot; kingdoms represented in these verses?<br />
<br />
Well, they had to be <b>&quot;born&quot;</b> within the dominion of those lands.<br />
<br />
And so, how does one become a member of the &quot;stone kingdom&quot; of the verses above?&quot;<br />
<br />
Well, Jesus said it best, yes?<br />
<br />
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				John 3<br />
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;<br />
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that  You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that  You do unless God is with him.”<br />
3 Jesus answered and said to him, <b>“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”</b><br />
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He  cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”<br />
5 Jesus answered, <b>“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And Peter wrote the following also apropos being <b>&quot;born again&quot; </b>and so on:<br />
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				I Pet. 1<br />
22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a  sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,<br />
23 for you have <b>been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.</b><br />
24 For,<br />
“ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS,<br />
AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS.<br />
THE GRASS WITHERS,<br />
AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,<br />
25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER.”<br />
And this is the word which was preached to you.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And therefore, the Kingdom of God is indeed <b>in </b>the world today--but <b>not of</b> the world today--as suggested below:<br />
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				John 17 (from Jesus' prayer)<br />
      13“But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. <br />
14“I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, <b>because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. </b><br />
<b>15“I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. <br />
16“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. </b><br />
17“Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. <br />
<b>18“As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.</b> <br />
19“For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.<b>      <br />
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; <br />
21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You,  that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You  sent Me.</b>
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Yep . . .<br />
<br />
:)</blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2903-of-Kingdom-Restoration-the-New-Birth-and-the-Rest</guid>
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			<title>Death . . . and the millennium . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2866-Death-and-the-millennium</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:07:59 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
Let's look at this scripture *very closely*: 
 
 
---Quote--- 
Rev. 20:4 
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore">:)<br />
<br />
Let's look at this scripture <b>very closely</b>:<br />
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				Rev. 20:4<br />
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and <b>they</b> came to life and <b>reigned</b> with Christ for a thousand years.
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>Indeed, the scripture above does <b>not</b> concern a &quot;thousand year reign of Christ&quot; at all--and for <b>two</b> basic reasons (among many):<br />
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				1) Christ's reign does <b>not</b> have a time limit on it. After all, since His resurrection/ascension from the dead, Christ reigns <b>forever</b> as King and Priest--at the Father's right hand. <br />
<br />
2) Rev. 20:4 indicates that it is <b>the martyrs</b> who reign--not Christ per se (and they are <b>not </b>the only ones who reign--and in accordance with <b>many</b> other scriptures).
			
		</div>
	</div>
</div>And remember, Christ has an immortal body <b>right now</b>, and has &quot;destroyed&quot; death thereby (Jesus rose from the dead immortal). However, &quot;the souls of those who had been beheaded&quot; in Rev. 20:4 do <b>not</b> have an immortal body yet.<br />
<br />
Why?<br />
<br />
Because the following events of Phil. 3:21 have <b>not</b> happened yet:<br />
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				Phil. 3<br />
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, <b>the Lord Jesus Christ;</b><br />
<b>21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>Therefore, &quot;the souls of those who had been beheaded&quot; in Rev. 20:4 have <b>not</b> had death (the last enemy) &quot;destroyed&quot; by Christ yet (as taught in I Cor. 15). <br />
<b><br />
Thus, &quot;death&quot; is still here in &quot;this age&quot;--as an &quot;undestroyed&quot; enemy of Christ. </b><br />
<br />
Yep.<br />
<br />
However, Christ Jesus will &quot;destroy&quot; death by accomplishing the events in the verses of Phil 3:20-21 <b>at His Second Coming</b>--as taught here:<br />
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				Heb. 9<br />
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,<br />
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, <b>will appear a <u>second time</u> for salvation without reference to sin</b>, to those who eagerly await Him.
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep.<br />
<br />
Indeed, there is only ONE Second Coming of Christ; i. e., Christ returns the <b>Second Time ONLY.  </b>And therefore, <b>the &quot;millennium&quot; contains death.</b><br />
<br />
Yep.  <b>Death.</b><br />
<br />
And therefore, <b>the &quot;millennium&quot; is of &quot;the first heaven and first earth&quot; age--as implied here:</b><br />
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				Rev. 21<br />
1 Then I saw <b>a new heaven and a new earth</b>; for <b>the first heaven and the first earth</b> passed away, and there is no longer any sea.<br />
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.<br />
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,<br />
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and <b>there will no longer be any death</b>; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the <b>first things have passed away.”</b>
			
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	</div>
</div>And so, we have two ages in the passage above: <b>a new heaven and new earth</b> and <b>a first heaven and first earth</b>, yes?  Additionally, the first heaven and first earth <b>has death</b> in it, while the new heaven and new earth <b>does not have death.</b><br />
<br />
And so, we come finally to the following verses from Jesus Christ Himself:<br />
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				Luke 20<br />
34Jesus said to them, <font color="#ff0000">“The sons of <b>this age</b> marry and are given in marriage, <br />
35but those who are considered worthy to attain to <b>that age</b> and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; <br />
<b>36for they cannot even die anymore</b>, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.</font>
			
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	</div>
</div>Yep. (Did you see it?)<br />
<br />
Indeed, the &quot;millennium&quot; contains <b>death</b> . . . and<br />
<br />
The &quot;first heaven and first earth&quot; contains<b> death</b> . . . and<br />
<br />
The &quot;this age&quot; contains <b>death</b> . . . and<br />
<br />
The &quot;new heaven and new earth&quot; does <b>not</b> contain <b>death</b> . . . and<br />
<br />
The &quot;that age&quot; does <b>not</b> contain <b>death</b> . . . and<br />
<br />
:hmm:<br />
<br />
<font size="1"><i><font color="blue"><i>(Do you see what I am getting at . . . ?)<br />
<br />
<br />
:pray:</i></font></i></font></blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2866-Death-and-the-millennium</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>. . . of peace, salvation, covenant, and the Branch . . .</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2860-of-peace-salvation-covenant-and-the-Branch</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:22:04 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[:) 
 
Let's read the following passages: 
 
 
---Quote--- 
Jer. 23 
*3* (http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-3.htm) “Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture,...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="blogcontent restore"><span style="font-family: Georgia"><br />
:)<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: verdana">Let's read the following passages:<br />
<br />
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				<span style="font-family: verdana">Jer. 23<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-3.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">3</font></b></a> “Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-4.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">4</font></b></a> “I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the LORD. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-5.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">5</font></b></a> “Behold, <i>the</i> days are coming,” declares the LORD,<br />
“<font color="red">When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch</font>;<br />
And He will <font color="red">reign as king</font> and act wisely<br />
And do justice and righteousness in the land. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-6.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">6</font></b></a> “In His days <font color="red">Judah will be saved</font>,<br />
And <font color="red">Israel will dwell securely</font>;<br />
And this is His name by which He will be called,<br />
‘<font color="red">The LORD our righteousness</font>.’ <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-7.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">7</font></b></a> “Therefore behold, <i>the</i> days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when they will no longer say, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/jeremiah/23-8.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">8</font></b></a> but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from <i>the</i> north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ Then they will live on their own soil.”<br />
<br />
Eze. 34<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-23.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">23</font></b></a> <font color="red">“Then I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will feed them; he will feed them himself and be their shepherd. </font><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-24.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">24</font></b></a> “And I, the LORD, will be their God, and <font color="red">My servant David will be prince among them</font>; I the LORD have spoken. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-25.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">25</font></b></a> “I will make <font color="red">a covenant of peace</font> with them and eliminate harmful beasts from the land so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-26.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">26</font></b></a> “I will make them and the places around My hill a blessing. And I will cause showers to come down in their season; they will be showers of blessing. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-27.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">27</font></b></a> “Also the tree of the field will yield its fruit and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure on their land. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bars of their yoke and have delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-28.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">28</font></b></a> “They will no longer be a prey to the nations, and the beasts of the earth will not devour them; but they will live securely, and no one will make <i>them</i> afraid. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-29.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">29</font></b></a> “I will establish for them a renowned planting place, and they will not again be victims of famine in the land, and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-30.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">30</font></b></a> “Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are My people,” declares the Lord GOD. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/34-31.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">31</font></b></a> “As for you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, you are men, and I am your God,” declares the Lord GOD.<br />
<br />
Eze. 37<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/37-24.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">24</font></b></a> “<font color="red">My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd</font>; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/37-25.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">25</font></b></a> “They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/37-26.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">26</font></b></a> “I will make <font color="red">a covenant of peace</font> with them; it will be an <font color="red">everlasting covenant</font> with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and <font color="red">will set My sanctuary</font> in their midst forever. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/37-27.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">27</font></b></a> <font color="red">“My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/37-28.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">28</font></b></a> “And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”</font> <br />
<br />
</span>
			
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	</div>
</div><span style="font-family: verdana">Now, here are some questions about the passages above:<br />
<br />
1) Which <font color="black">covenant of peace</font> is referred to in these passages above? <br />
2) How does YHWH dwell with us forever? <br />
3) Who is the Branch? <br />
4) Who is &quot;my servant David?&quot; <br />
5) Who is the Shepherd? <br />
6) How will Judah be saved?<br />
<br />
Well, I'm sure that we all know that the Hebrew word for peace is <i>Shalom</i>.<br />
<br />
And only the Prince of Peace (<i>Shalom</i>) Jesus Christ can <i>give peace</i> to the Hebrew and Gentile peoples--as they believe on Him.<br />
<br />
Of course, Paul indicates that He has a prayer for Israel in Romans 10--that Israel might be saved (i. e., have <i>Shalom</i>):<br />
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				Romans 10<br />
1 <font color="red">Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.</font> <br />
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. <br />
<font color="red">3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. <br />
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.</font>
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, does not salvation come through believing on the &quot;Prince of Peace (<i>Shalom</i> in Hebrew)&quot;--Jesus Christ?<br />
<br />
Indeed, to say that the Prince of &quot;<i>Shalom</i>&quot; did not preach &quot;<i>Shalom</i>&quot;--to Hebrew and non-Hebrew people during <i>His 1st advent</i> (<i>and up to the present day through His disciples</i>)--is a bit incongruent. After all, Jesus is <i>Jehovah-Shalom</i>, yes?<br />
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				Isa. 9:6-7<br />
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;<br />
And the government will rest on His shoulders;<br />
<font color="red">And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,<br />
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.</font> <br />
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,<br />
<font color="red">On the throne of David and over his kingdom,<br />
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness<br />
From then on and forevermore.<br />
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this. </font>
			
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	</div>
</div>Now, in Ephesians 2, Paul indicates that Jesus (the Prince of Peace)--preached &quot;Peace&quot; not only to who were FAR AWAY (Gentiles) but also to those who WERE NEAR (Israel) during His first advent:<br />
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				Eph. 2:11-22<br />
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— <br />
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. <br />
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. <br />
14 For He Himself is our peace, <font color="red">who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, </font><br />
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, <br />
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.<br />
17<font color="red">AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; </font><br />
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.<br />
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, <br />
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, <br />
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, <br />
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
			
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	</div>
</div> Also, in Acts 10, Peter indicates that Jesus preached &quot;<i>Shalom</i>&quot; to those who WERE NEAR (Israel) during His first advent--and He was sent by YHWH to do it by the prophesy of the TANAKH: <br />
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				Acts 10<br />
34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:<br />
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, <br />
35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. <br />
36 <font color="red">“The word which He (YHWH) sent to the sons of Israel, preaching <i>peace</i> through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—</font> <br />
37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. <br />
38 “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. <br />
39 “We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.<br />
<font size="1"><br />
<font color="blue">(This is rejection of the Christ and of His Gospel of Peace by those of the land of the Jews and Jerusalem. Continuing . . .)</font><br />
<br />
</font>40 “God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, <br />
41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. <br />
42 “And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. <br />
43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” 
			
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	</div>
</div>In short, Jesus Christ--the Prince of Peace (<i>Shalom</i>)--preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God's <i>Shalom</i> to Hebrew and non-Hebrew alike by prophetic decree of the Tanakh.<br />
<br />
So now, let's go to Romans 10:15:<br />
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				Rom. 10(some context)<br />
12 <font color="red">For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek</font>; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; <br />
13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” <br />
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? <br />
15 <font color="red">How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” </font><br />
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” <br />
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. <br />
18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;<br />
“THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,<br />
AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”<br />
19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,<br />
“I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION,<br />
BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU.”<br />
20 And Isaiah is very bold and says,<br />
“I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME,<br />
I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.”<br />
21 But as for Israel He says, “ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.” <br />
Romans 11:1<br />
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too (Paul the Apostle) am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 
			
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</div>Now, notice that Paul references Isaiah 52:7 in Romans 10:15. So, look at what's there in Isaiah 52:7: <font color="blue">the Gospel of Peace</font> (some translations of Romans 10:15 omit the &quot;gospel of peace&quot; phrase, of course):<br />
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				Isaiah 52 <br />
7 How lovely on the mountains<br />
Are the feet of him who brings good news,<br />
<font color="red">Who announces peace<br />
And brings good news of happiness,<br />
Who announces salvation,<br />
And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!” <br />
8 Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices,<br />
They shout joyfully together;<br />
For they will see with their own eyes<br />
When the LORD restores Zion. </font>
			
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	</div>
</div>And of course, the Hebrew word for &quot;Peace&quot; in Isaiah 52:7 is <i>Shalom</i>.<br />
<br />
Paul references the prophesy of Isaiah in Rom. 10:20-21 as well, indicating that the Gentiles would receive the Gospel of Peace, but many of the people of &quot;Natural&quot; Israel would not receive it. <br />
<br />
Then, Paul indicates in Romans 11:1 that God <i>has not really rejected Israel</i>--because God did not reject Paul--who was an Israelite. But the reason Paul (an Israelite) was not rejected is clear: <br />
<br />
</span><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: verdana"><font color="blue">because Paul <u><i>believed</i></u> on the Prince of &quot;Shalom&quot; and became a disciple of Jesus Christ.</font></span></div><span style="font-family: verdana"><br />
So, if &quot;Natural Israel&quot; will not in <font color="red">this current age</font> come into the &quot;olive tree of the SAVED in Christ&quot; (Rom. 11:24) through faith in the Gospel of the Kingdom of God's <i>Peace</i>, then <b>there's not another opportunity for them to have <i>&quot;Shalom&quot;</i> later on in our future . . . <br />
<br />
</b>After all, Rom. 2:11 indicates the following:<br />
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				Rom. 2<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/2-11.htm" target="_blank"><b><font color="#417394">11</font></b></a> For there is no partiality with God.
			
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:)<br />
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</span></blockquote>

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			<dc:creator>billy-brown 2</dc:creator>
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			<title>. . . the hope of the gospel</title>
			<link>http://bibleforums.org/entry.php/2755-the-hope-of-the-gospel</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:40:10 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>:) 
 
 The Apostle Paul indicated that there was   _one hope_ of our calling as saints: 
 
---Quote--- 
 Eph. 4 
*1* (http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-1.htm) Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling...</description>
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:)<br />
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<span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> The Apostle Paul indicated that there was </font></span></span>  <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><u><font color="Red">one hope</font></u></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> of our calling as saints:<br />
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				<span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> Eph. 4<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-1.htm" target="_blank"><b>1</b></a> Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-2.htm" target="_blank"><b>2</b></a> with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-3.htm" target="_blank"><b>3</b></a> being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-4.htm" target="_blank"><b>4</b></a> <i>There is</i> one body and one Spirit, </font></span>      <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">just as also you were called in <u>one hope</u> of your calling</font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3">; <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-5.htm" target="_blank"><b>5</b></a> one Lord, one faith, one baptism, <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/ephesians/4-6.htm" target="_blank"><b>6</b></a> one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. </font></span>
			
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</div><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><br />
And Paul had <font color="Red">this <u>one hope</u></font> because he had the <font color="Red">Spirit of Adoption</font>, an<font color="Black">d <font color="Red">this <u>one hope</u></font> is</font><i><font color="Red"> the redemption of the body</font><font color="Black"><font color="Red">--indeed, the consummation of our adoption as sons of God</font>:</font></i></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><br />
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				<span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> Romans 8<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-12.htm" target="_blank"><b>12</b></a> So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-13.htm" target="_blank"><b>13</b></a> for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-14.htm" target="_blank"><b>14</b></a> For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-15.htm" target="_blank"><b>15</b></a> For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received </font></span>     <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">a spirit of adoption</font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-16.htm" target="_blank"><b>16</b></a> The </font></span> <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-17.htm" target="_blank"><b>17</b></a> and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ</font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> <font color="Red">, if indeed we suffer with <i>Him</i> so that we may also be glorified with <i>Him.</i></font><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-18.htm" target="_blank"><b>18</b></a> For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-19.htm" target="_blank"><b>19</b></a> For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-20.htm" target="_blank"><b>20</b></a> For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, </font></span>    <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">in hope </font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-21.htm" target="_blank"><b>21</b></a> <font color="Red">that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. </font><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-22.htm" target="_blank"><b>22</b></a> For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-23.htm" target="_blank"><b>23</b></a> And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the <font color="Red">first fruits of the Spirit</font>, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,<font color="Red"> waiting eagerly for <i>our</i>    adoption as sons, </font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">the redemption of our body.</font> </font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-24.htm" target="_blank"><b>24</b></a> For </font></span> <span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red">in hope</font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> we have been saved, but</font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red"> hope </font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3">that is seen is not <font color="Red">hope</font>; for who <font color="Red">hopes</font> for what he <i>already</i> sees? <br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://bible.cc/romans/8-25.htm" target="_blank"><b>25</b></a> But </font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"><font color="Red"> if we hope</font></font></span><span style="font-family: Garamond"><font size="3"> for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.</font></span>
			
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Indeed,  there is only <font color="red">one hope</font> for us all . . .<br />
<br />
:pray:<br />
</font></span></blockquote>

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