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    kenw232

    Question about the rapture

    Thread Starter: kenw232

    Does anyone know if the rapture has a defined length of time? I don't care about when it starts, just how long it lasts if it did start as mentioned in the bible. Thanks.

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    fewarechosen

    I will come again

    Thread Starter: fewarechosen

    Christ came here to earth and told His disciples He would come again and recieve us unto Him, keep in mind in scripture this is all one conversation, i edited out a few verses to try and address one specific point Joh 14:2 In my Father's house...

    Last Post By: Noeb Today, 03:52 AM Go to last post
    Nick

    Jesus's primary purpose

    Thread Starter: Nick

    When I look at Luke 4:42-44 something stands out and that's the primary purpose of Jesus's mission here. Many think it was to die for our sins. I have to wonder. Let's look one of things Jesus actually said about his purpose: "And when it was...

    Last Post By: Nick Today, 03:44 AM Go to last post
    divaD

    Did they or did they not? Matthew 7:22...

    Thread Starter: divaD

    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? If they did, then doesn't that seem like a contradiction to the...

    Last Post By: Noeb Today, 03:43 AM Go to last post
    Sojourner55

    Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

    Thread Starter: Sojourner55

    A new policy in the Pickens County school district in Liberty, South Carolina now prohibits any prayer from graduation ceremonies. Valedictorian, Roy Costner IV took umbrage to that policy, and recited a prayer instead of the speech school officials...

    Last Post By: Reynolds357 Today, 03:37 AM Go to last post
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    Laws in my heart. Posted on June 12, 2013 Did the laws in my heart help me today … Not to fear but to trust Jesus in every way … I don’t really think on them it comes in a supernatural way …...

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  • When the Son of Man Comes, Will He Find Faith On the Earth?

    ........As I run this race that God has set before me I grow more and more perplexed at Christianity. For many years I have fought the idea of what I call 'greasy grace' and I have fought it hard. I've adopted the phrase I hate exercising futility and often refuse to do so once I determine the futility in whatever (or whoever) it is that I'm facing. Yet, there are some things God puts before us that require us to push on regardless of the nature of the people we are dealing with.

    ........In the last few years the term 'greasy grace' has lost its meaning. It is even worse than greasy grace now so I must change the term to fit the surroundings. I now label it as 'sleazy grace.' What have we become?

    ........It is good that many of the rigid rules in the church have gone by the wayside. I'm referring to things like those silly little rules that were widespread, such as a woman wearing makeup or jewelry to church; watching people flip out if someone came into the church not dressed a certain way or fitting a certain standard that people required of anyone who crossed the threshold of their beloved little building with the steeple on top. Yet, where have we taken this now?

    ........Traveling as we do across the country affords us the opportunity to visit many churches and I can testify that I have seen the changes. Truly living day to day wherever the Lord leads us allows us to meet many folks as they loudly (and some not so loudly) proclaim their Christianity. Unfortunately it also allows us to view the way people actually live. My heart is broken and even more my heart is burdened down with a weight that I cannot even begin to explain, but I will try.

    ........Just the other day I was walking into Wal-Mart with Jennifer and we witnessed something amazing. Some white man was railing on a black woman and saying very unkind things to her. Amazingly the only retort that I heard from the woman was, “God bless you.” That didn’t stop the man from railing and I was about to step into the fray and tell the man to chill out. As I stepped towards them the woman added to her retort saying, "God bless you, you sorry Moth….F…..!" This stopped me dead in my tracks as this was yet one more example of Christianity that I have witnessed since returning to Atlanta. Now I know folks will think this doesn’t describe a Christian, but then we need a reality check here. The reason these people think that they can act this way as a Christian is because they are being taught that their behavior has no real bearing on their Christianity.

    ........I'm sure many people on this board would agree that one of the greatest problems with Catholicism is the worship of Mary. The official church dogma proclaims they do not worship Mary, but only venerate her. The problem with this is that anyone that knows Catholic faithful… they also know that when they pray to Mary it has gone well beyond veneration and is in fact worship. Regardless of the official Catholic Church stance on this issue the people hear it a different way. It is the same in our churches today. You will hear from the pulpits across this nation that committing acts of sin is wrong. What you will also hear in the majority of those pulpits… the added word 'but.' There is a line or two in a sermon speaking of how sin is wrong and then line after line comes after the word 'but.

    But... we're only human.
    But… all of us will sin.
    But… Jesus paid for all our sins -- past, present and future.
    But...
    ........In the end all the people hear is that they shouldn’t, BUT they can.

    ........Try this with your own children. Tell him or her they shouldn’t have sex until they are married, but if they do have sex before marriage that’s okay. Tell them they shouldn’t do drugs or drink, but since you are a child and only human you are going to do drugs and drink anyway, so I have already forgiven you for this. Tell your child they should never lie, but when they do lie you understand because they are just sinners anyway. None of you (hopefully) would ever raise your own child with such foolish notions, and yet in the church that is the message the congregation is too often hearing.

    ........Last night a most interesting thing happened here. We are helping to care for an elderly lady in the campground. She is handicapped and virtually crippled and facing surgery to her shoulders because of tissue degeneration, thus making things much more difficult for her. We were sitting with her last night when a man who works for the campground stopped by. He is an ordained minister who happened to be drunk when he stopped by, which is a common thing for him. Before he left he said a prayer. Had he been praying in church people would have loudly proclaimed, “AMEN!” Had he been in the church and not drunk, and had people not dealt with this guy on a daily basis, they would have thought this was truly a man of God to pray such a heart-felt and fiery prayer! But out of this same man’s mouth I have heard vile language and seen him commit violent acts. For him drunkenness is a way of life. All the while this man thinks he is a testimony for the Lord. He thinks he is on the path to that narrow gate and never for a minute does he think he will not enter.

    ........We pastor’s have failed and the fruit of that failure can be seen every day. Not what we see in the church because everyone is on their best behavior on Sunday! The fruit of this failure is seen in the homes of people that no one in your church knows. It can be seen in the parking lot of Wal-Mart. It is seen in their cars as they are stuck in traffic. It is seen on the walls of their own homes and places of work. It is seen in the erased history of their computers. It is seen in a lot of places but most of all it IS seen by God. When I was in the Military there was a charge that no one wanted levied against them and that was dereliction of duty. This charge would, and rightly so, end your military career. In the church… this is a charge that could be, and should be, charged against pastors across the country. We are not doing the charge that God has placed before us. We have become shepherds of the flock and the flock has become fat off the junk that we have fed it.

    ........I should end this with something positive and yet here I sit typing and can’t think of much positive to end it with. The state of the church is horrifying. I do now understand what Jesus meant when He asked, “However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" Yet for the sake of something I will post a passage that I push on this message board on a very regular basis. If you are a pastor… follow this. If you are part of the congregation… follow this.
    .......
    2 Peter 1:1-11
    1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
    2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
    3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
    4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
    5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge;
    6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;
    7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
    8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
    10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
    11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

    ........Like Peter I feel I must constantly remind people of this because this is truly checking to see if you really are in the faith. Forget eternal security or not. Forget predestination or free-will. Forget what denomination you are in. All that stuff just clouds our thinking and ultimately we simply have a form of godliness but we deny the power therein.

    ........This is my duty.
    Comments 20 Comments
    1. episkopos's Avatar
      episkopos -
      I feel that the error lies at least in part with the effort of trying to bring Christ into the prevailing culture rather than bring people into the culture of the kingdom. Who is bowing to whom? All these hyphenated Christians. But in Christ all are one.

      With real estate as with the Lord....it is about location, location, location. Where are we? Are we truly seated with Christ? (and I'm not talking the doctrinal positional stance that spiritualizes something that's not happening).

      The church is in a tailspin. Jesus warned us about the lawlessness of these times. The love of many will wax cold. The truth would become an opinion and there would be no power. This speaks of the superficiality of the gospel message. Surely Jesus died and was raised again for a more substantial hold on our hearts and minds!
    1. ProjectPeter's Avatar
      ProjectPeter -
      Quote Originally Posted by episkopos View Post
      I feel that the error lies at least in part with the effort of trying to bring Christ into the prevailing culture rather than bring people into the culture of the kingdom. Who is bowing to whom? All these hyphenated Christians. But in Christ all are one.

      With real estate as with the Lord....it is about location, location, location. Where are we? Are we truly seated with Christ? (and I'm not talking the doctrinal positional stance that spiritualizes something that's not happening).

      The church is in a tailspin. Jesus warned us about the lawlessness of these times. The love of many will wax cold. The truth would become an opinion and there would be no power. This speaks of the superficiality of the gospel message. Surely Jesus died and was raised again for a more substantial hold on our hearts and minds!
      All sorts of errors abound. This would certainly be a large one.
    1. Diggindeeper's Avatar
      Diggindeeper -
      I've said before and I say once again...I have seen so much craziness walk into the church and take over, and especially since the start of 1990. And one of the craziest things I've seen happen is watching those who talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Its as if they simply ignore all the 'IFs' in the Bible and insert the word But to replace the IFs and the conditions required!People today have reverted to fairy tale belief because of what they have been hearing in the church over the past 20 plus years.They say, "So what...all that will happen is we MAY lose a reward or two." (Meaning, a slap on the wrist, when in reality the rewards are things like A CROWN OF LIFE! Lose that and you've lost it all!) This is a very needed article for today's Christian!
    1. andrew_no_one's Avatar
      andrew_no_one -
      I agree with what you said and with sister Diggin. How do we fix it though? How can a system so broken be repaired?What I've done is discard all doctrine in favor of scripture and I've found it as useful as replacing what is inside my veins with blood instead of orange juice.
    1. ProjectPeter's Avatar
      ProjectPeter -
      Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post
      I agree with what you said and with sister Diggin. How do we fix it though? How can a system so broken be repaired?What I've done is discard all doctrine in favor of scripture and I've found it as useful as replacing what is inside my veins with blood instead of orange juice.
      Impact when and where you can... it is all any of us can do. One by one... every now and again someone might listen. But until we speak... no one hears us.
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      First of all, what's wrong with orange juice? I happen to be drinking orange juice right now, andrew. It keeps me scurvy at bay. I heared good things about apples, too. You got a problem with one a day? Anyway, I actually wanted to comment on what you wrote, Pastor Pete. I see you don't like hypocrites.

      So, what's the version of practical sanctification you preach to go along with that? Tell me, what should we be diligently doing, SPECIFICALLY, to add to our faith moral excellence, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love?Surely, you are not going to emphasize that we should actually attempt to "practice these things," as verse 10 would have it! Why, that would take physical action. That would take using our human will. That would take knowing what pleases the Lord and a decision and inention to carry it out. Don't you know that would be trying to be justified by the law, and would be a slap in the face of Christ and all He's done for us!?

      Don't you know we just need to meditate on Him and all He's done for us, and who He has made us because we 'asked him in our heart'? (Would someone remind Jason Gray who he is; he's forgotten again, ... and again, ... and again ....).Don't you know that if we just meditate on happy thoughts about the Savior that we'll suddenly start doing things which in hindsight happen to be consistent with what pleases Him, even though there is absolutely no way, no how, we could EVER please God out of our own feeble mental intentions or physical efforts?Don't you know we are too weak in our miserable human will power to obey or otherwise please God? Don't you know all our efforts are still like filthy rags? Don't you know that we need to cease striving to be better people and quit trying to avoid sinning in our own strength? Don't you know we just need to surrender and wait for Him to change us from the inside out? Don't you know we just need to quit focussing on sins, and instead focus o who we are in Him?

      Indeed, why didn't you say in your post that our job is to diligently sit and wait for God to make us like Jesus? Why didn't you tell us to read and meditate and pray for a break through, surrendering our puny efforts and merely human ideas about how we might 'put into practice' some of those Spiritual fruit? Why didn't you warn us against trying to do it in our own strength? Why didn't you make the distinction between us acting good and growing good fruit? Why didn't you emphasize, along with Purpose Driven Rick, that regardless of how purposeful we are, our growth into Christlikness will be very, very slow, ... kind of like the alleged speed of continental glaciers? (For Andrew's sake, I want to point out that's a lot slower than apples and oranges grow on trees).

      Why didn't you remind us again that we don't have it within us to love the way God wants us to!? (We so love to hear you croon that!)Instead, you taunt us with that braggadocious Peter passage. Didn't you and the other Peter read James? We CANNOT tame the tongue! Got that? That's why she couldn't help but say, M_ _ F_ _, any more than she could help but say, G_ _ b_ _ _ _ y_ _. For, it is up to God to change her heart. It is up to Him to make the overflow of our hearts pure. (After all, didn't anyone ever tell you the heart is evil and unknowable? Don't you know it is outright hypocritical of us, knowing that, to judge each her or each other?)

      So, you, being a trained pastor and supposedly knowing all these things, what kind of cruel and inhuman hypocrite are you? Should you really try to pile more obligations on us, knowing we were never meant to have them? Shouldn't you, instead, raise a finger to help us? On the other hand, it's hardly your fault you are such a hypocrite. God just hasn't grown the fruit of compassion in you yet. ... Well, when He does make you grow some compassion fruit, please join the rest of our nation's deceived clergy in imparting more of this incredibly impractical theology for life after salvation. We can't get enough of it.

      Also, keep lying to us about treasure in heaven. Keep us thinking it is sin to want treasure in heaven, and how futile it is to think we could actually EARN something that will last us for eternity beyond simply making it to heaven itself. That way, we won't be deluded into thinking God will really reward us according to our deeds and the heart with which they were done, regardless of what it says at 1 Cor 3: 8 about how "each will receive his own reward according to his own labor." Then, we won't have to divide our focus between enjoying our miserable suffering and cointemplating our rewards while we share in the sufferings of Christ, like all those faithful chumps in Hebrews 11. That way, we won't have to be encouraged by the way Jesus endured suffering, entrusting himself to the Father, and how as a result the Father "seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come, ... [with] all things in subjection under His feet, ... as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." Eph 1. Thanks. Appreciate it, your helplessness!
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Dig, ... yer powerful ...
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Pete, I just got a closer look at your avatar. The guy with the silver tape might have a careful 'little mouth' -- who could tell? But that nostril is huge.

      Anyway, how come all these other repliers got a response from you and I didn't?

      I'll bet you dismissively think I'm one of those no good legalists who wants to try to do everything in his own strength. ... Don't ya.
    1. ProjectPeter's Avatar
      ProjectPeter -
      Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
      Pete, I just got a closer look at your avatar. The guy with the silver tape might have a careful 'little mouth' -- who could tell? But that nostril is huge.

      Anyway, how come all these other repliers got a response from you and I didn't?

      I'll bet you dismissively think I'm one of those no good legalists who wants to try to do everything in his own strength. ... Don't ya.
      Yeah... you nutty legalist!
    1. salesman's Avatar
      salesman -
      We live in an age of commercialization of every aspect of our lives. This too has crept into the church. We all want what our neighbor has. We no longer have the time or desire to follow the "straight and narrow path" This has led to a place where Christians are no longer separate from the world, we are completely in it. Half of Christian marriages end in divorce. Christians run home to watch American Idol (thou shalt have no other god before Me). Here in the south (just outside Atlanta) Friday Night Football is the most important part of a child's education. We as Christians no longer DESIRE to receive our reward in heaven. Matt. 19:29 tells us "and every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Should Christians not at least entertain the idea that if you do not follow Jesus in a sacrificial way, then you are not going to inherit the kingdom. I believe that far too many Christians read John 3:16 and think they can pop a quick prayer saying "God I need you" and they become saved and can now live any life they desire safe in the knowledge that they have done the "salvation thing." They ignore the previous passage from Matthew. They ignore "take up my cross and FOLLOW me". They ignore the entire book of James which very carefully lays out the fact that faith without works is dead. Laziness and apathy have led us to the point where the church is no longer a light on a hill for all to see, but simply another stop on a busy thoroughfare. And for that reason I often find myself grieving over our modern Christianity.
    1. ProjectPeter's Avatar
      ProjectPeter -
      Quote Originally Posted by salesman View Post
      We live in an age of commercialization of every aspect of our lives. This too has crept into the church. We all want what our neighbor has. We no longer have the time or desire to follow the "straight and narrow path" This has led to a place where Christians are no longer separate from the world, we are completely in it. Half of Christian marriages end in divorce. Christians run home to watch American Idol (thou shalt have no other god before Me). Here in the south (just outside Atlanta) Friday Night Football is the most important part of a child's education. We as Christians no longer DESIRE to receive our reward in heaven. Matt. 19:29 tells us "and every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Should Christians not at least entertain the idea that if you do not follow Jesus in a sacrificial way, then you are not going to inherit the kingdom. I believe that far too many Christians read John 3:16 and think they can pop a quick prayer saying "God I need you" and they become saved and can now live any life they desire safe in the knowledge that they have done the "salvation thing." They ignore the previous passage from Matthew. They ignore "take up my cross and FOLLOW me". They ignore the entire book of James which very carefully lays out the fact that faith without works is dead. Laziness and apathy have led us to the point where the church is no longer a light on a hill for all to see, but simply another stop on a busy thoroughfare. And for that reason I often find myself grieving over our modern Christianity.
      Well said.
    1. salesman's Avatar
      salesman -
      Thank You. Interesting topic. I have truly felt an apathy, tending toward hostility against all thing Christian lately.
    1. Mark F's Avatar
      Mark F -
      Good article.Paul talks alot about liberty, but is careful to explain that resposibility comes with it. The church seems to think liberty means license, though most just don't get it. I am deeply concerned as you are, thanks. Gotta keep setting the standard.
    1. Hunter's Avatar
      Hunter -
      Hello, My name is Hunter, I'm a grace Man myself, no works, no performances, no, "look what I did today God" or "look what I refrained from" "For we are His workmanship in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which He has before ordained that we should walk in them." Our God in His grace and mercy placed a sphere or moral action within the Son, long before we came aound and what we need to do is learn to walk in what He has already accomplished, "The Finished Work of Christ" Shalom in the home to one and all. Thank-you Dennis for the invite. Hunter
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
      Hello, My name is Hunter, I'm a grace Man myself, no works, no performances, no, "look what I did today God" or "look what I refrained from" "For we are His workmanship in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which He has before ordained that we should walk in them." Our God in His grace and mercy placed a sphere or moral action within the Son, long before we came aound and what we need to do is learn to walk in what He has already accomplished, "The Finished Work of Christ" Shalom in the home to one and all. Thank-you Dennis for the invite. Hunter
      I like happy thoughts like these. And i like happy, pro-Jesus believers. I like fans of Christ. Tell me, though, Hunter. Are you suggesting that anyone in Pastor Pete's essay, including Pete, is "walking in the finished work of Christ?" How did they come to be doing that? What does that look like, ... or sound like?

      Would you be so good as to list the steps to that method, so all may "learn to walk in what He has already accomplished?"

      Would you mind citing the Scripture which explains or confirms God's placing of a "sphere of moral action within the Son?"

      Tanks, pal
    1. episkopos's Avatar
      episkopos -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
      Hello, My name is Hunter, I'm a grace Man myself, no works, no performances, no, "look what I did today God" or "look what I refrained from" "For we are His workmanship in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which He has before ordained that we should walk in them." Our God in His grace and mercy placed a sphere or moral action within the Son, long before we came aound and what we need to do is learn to walk in what He has already accomplished, "The Finished Work of Christ" Shalom in the home to one and all. Thank-you Dennis for the invite. Hunter
      You said you don't work or perform (for God) then you cite a verse that says we are actually created to do so. Could you expand a little on what you are saying. What is a "grace man"?

      BTW welcome here!
    1. Redeemed by Grace's Avatar
      Redeemed by Grace -
      Hi PP... nice article.
    1. ProjectPeter's Avatar
      ProjectPeter -
      Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
      Hi PP... nice article.
      Thanks... glad to see you still peaking in.
    1. Redeemed by Grace's Avatar
      Redeemed by Grace -
      Quote Originally Posted by ProjectPeter View Post
      Thanks... glad to see you still peaking in.
      Work has kept me hopping...
    1. Saved7's Avatar
      Saved7 -
      Well I haven't read everyone's responses, but I read the first 4 or 5, and I read PP's post, and all I think that is left to say is....amen. Well said folks. I too often find myself grieving the state of the western church.
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