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  • The Humanity of Jesus

    Luke 4:1-13 records that Jesus, prior to the start of His ministry, submitted Himself to being tested by Satan. Presumably, Satan was unwilling to entrust this task to even his most accomplished minion. Surely, he wanted to handle Jesus personally. We read that after he failed in his attempt to exploit the hunger and weakness caused by Jesus' 40-day fast, Satan next offered Him a bribe: sovereign power over the entire earth--if He would but bow down and worship Him:

    The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.
    And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
    Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"
    (Luke 4:5-8)

    Consider this scenario carefully for a moment. Is it likely that Satan—in His wildest imagination, really believed that God would kneel and worship him? Of course not. We know that God neither tempts, nor can He be tempted. (James 1:13). So then, obviously the devil was not trying to tempt God, he was tempting a man. It should also be obvious that Satan had reason to believe Jesus was susceptible to temptation, or else he would not have even bothered trying to bribe Him. We can therefore conclude that the Devil truly believed Jesus to have a fully human nature, with a human mind and will.

    Therefore, while Jesus is indeed God manifest in the flesh, He was also fully and completely human, with an actual human nature like ours. At the very least, He possessed the innate capacity to accept Satan's offer. That’s the issue. And that fully human nature of Jesus is the focus of this study--a topic rarely discussed, but one that examines an attribute of Jesus which is just as vital to His being our Savior as is His deity.

    Yes, Jesus is fully God. If He were not, He could not have spoken of the divine glory He once shared with His Father before He became human. (John 17:5) If He were not inwardly God, He could not have been born without sin, and therefore couldn't have been the sinless Lamb of God, sacrificed to pay our sin debt. If He were not God, He would not have been able to willingly "give up the Spirit" when the time was right, nor take it up again. Nor could He have simply exited the gates of hell after dwelling three days among the dead in Sheol—taking the keys to death and hell with Him when He left.

    And yet, if He were not fully and completely human, He would not have qualified as our Kinsman-Redeemer, which He was by virtue of being related to Adam through the human ancestry of his mother. He would not have possessed the royal lineage that entitled Him to the throne of Israel--that legal right actually coming to Him by means of the heritage of both Mary and Joseph, whose common ancestry converge in King David—giving Jesus the title, “Son of David.” If Jesus were not fully human, He could not truly relate to our humanity--to feel what we feel, and experience all of our many weaknesses and limitations. Nor could He have experienced the temptations leveled at Him from Satan, subsequently giving us victory through His victory.

    If Jesus were not fully human, He would not have possessed a human will with which to reject Satan, and submit to God--thereby undoing the damage done in Eden. Both Adam and Eve broke the spiritual relationship they had with God through their willful disobedience. It began with Eve, but both are equally responsible for the current fallen state of man. The tragic consequences of their actions ruined not only their own estate, but also that of all who came after them. In the wake of sin’s entrance into the world, came the subsequent curse upon Creation, which has caused all of the pain and suffering of mankind--which is then followed by eternal damnation.

    It was because Eve chose to believe the lies of the serpent, and disbelieve the Word of God, that she disobeyed His commandment, and ate of the forbidden fruit. Adam likewise broke the commandment, so they were both equally guilty of disobeying God. And that disobedience resulted in their spiritual death and utter alienation from God, resulting in all of their descendants inheriting a spiritually dead, fallen nature, instead of what God had intended for them.

    That’s where Jesus comes in as the Word of God incarnate. Through Him, the damage done in the garden of Eden is reversed. Lack of faith in the Word of God led to disobedience, and disobedience led to death. Conversely, faith in Jesus as the Word of God, leads to obedience, and obedience leads to eternal life.

    Because He was fully God, Jesus did not inherit the spiritually dead nature of those descended from Adam. Yet, because He was also fully human, He possessed the same capacity that Adam had to either obey or disobey. One may be hesitant to embrace the idea that Jesus was capable of disobeying God. But I submit that it is His choice to be obedient to the will of God which is at the very heart of what He accomplished for us. Scripture tells us:
    5Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, 8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross. (Phil 2:5-8 NRSV)
    During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
    .(Heb 5:7-9 NIV)

    Indeed, in the hour of His anguish in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus--knowing full well what He was about to endure—and perhaps already feeling the crushing weight of the sins of the world upon Him, besought God to let that most bitter and dreadful cup pass from Him, if at all possible:
    He went on a little farther and bowed with his face to the ground, praying, "My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. (Matt 26:39 NLT)

    Yet, He immediately followed that petition with a surrender of His will to the Father’s will, discounting what His human nature wanted:
    “Yet, I want your will to be done, not mine." (Matt 26:39 NLT)

    So then, the reign of sin began in a garden when one man chose to disobey, and oppose his will to that of God, and the end of sin’s reign also began in a garden, when one man chose to obey--and to submit Himself fully to the will of god. The first Adam brought the curse of both spiritual death, and eternal condemnation down on mankind by his disobedience, and the “last Adam” purchased for us, eternal life and redemption from the curse, by His obedience (Rom 5:17).

    It seems fair to say that we can only fully appreciate the total picture of Jesus when we recognize that everything He did, He did willingly—as a flesh and blood man, fully dependent upon, and guided by the Spirit of His Father, Who indwelt Him from the moment of His supernatural conception. Jesus was acutely and fully aware of His pre-incarnate existence as the Word, and of His inherent equality with God. Yet, He disassociated Himself from those divine prerogatives to become a human vessel, emptied of self, and relying on God for everything He said and did, and everything He was able to do.

    Jesus went through the entire process of human life, from embryonic development in the womb to adulthood, and lived a typical childhood in between--including submitting Himself to parental authority, and growing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men ( Luke 2:52). And throughout His entire life and earthly ministry, Jesus very clearly submitted Himself entirely to a subordinate position under the Father, stating this total dependence on Him for everything, several times:
    "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19 NIV)

    He stated that He was essentially a human conduit through which God operated:
    Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. (John 14:10)

    Jesus also declared that He lacked the full authority which the Father possessed:
    Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him.
    "What is it you want?" he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."
    "You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said to them. "Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?" "We can," they answered.
    Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
    (Matt 20:20-23)


    Jesus even declared His lack of complete omniscience, by stating that only the Father knew the exact day of His future return in glory:
    "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mark 13:32)

    Only after His resurrection, did Jesus declare that all authority in heaven and earth was fully His:
    Jesus came and told his disciples, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:18-19)

    Obviously, if Jesus had already possessed that power and authority, He would not have announced that it had been given to Him at a point in time. For that matter, if He had already possessed it, that authority could not even have been given to Him.

    The point is, prior to His resurrection, Jesus was the eternal Word of God manifest in the flesh--and yet voluntarily divested of all divine privileges. For all intents and purposes, aside from His miraculous birth and inherent deity, Jesus lived the life of an ordinary human being, and was guided by, obedient to, and empowered by the Holy Spirit—exactly what every Christian is called to do. To successfully accomplish the purpose for which He was sent, Jesus had do what Adam failed to do: remain true to the will and Word of God, no matter what. And in order to do that, He had to have the same human will as Adam. Yet, that required having the integrity necessary for sheer, unyielding adherence to the will of God--a task which Adam fell far short of.

    The Greek word most frequently translated in the New Testament as “sin,” actually denotes missing, or falling short of the mark. The practical application of that idea is seen in the futility of our efforts to ever measure up to the standards of God’s holy righteousness. As the Apostle Paul states, “All have fallen short of the glory of God.” Indeed, Scripture teaches that even the most zealous attempts of unregenerate man at righteousness are in vain, and amount to no more than filthy rags before our holy God. (Isa 64:6).

    We are born spiritually naked, just as we are physically—a sad legacy of Adam and Eve, who became aware of their nakedness when the Holy Spirit that clothed them, departed upon the entrance of sin and loss of innocence. And no one can enter into the presence of God without being clothed with the pure robe of righteousness, made white and clean only by the sinless blood of the Lamb of god:

    After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands. (Rev 7:9 NLT)

    Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, "Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you are the one who knows." Then he said to me, "These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.
    (Rev 7:13-14 NLT)


    Those so arrayed in these white robes are the blood-washed called and chosen, who will walk the golden streets of the New Jerusalem in perfect peace, and will dwell in the presence of God forever. And this privilege is made possible only because the man Christ Jesus prevailed against the powers of darkness, and remained faithful to God. Despising His own human will, Jesus followed the arduous path that God had prepared for Him—all the way to the end, where His sinless heart suffered and broke under the crushing weight of every vile sin ever committed.

    It is our being clothed in the holiness and righteousness of God that saves us, and allows us to come before His throne. And it is only because the one man who never committed sin became sin, that we will enjoy that glorious experience.:

    God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor 5:21)

    God has always worked through man in the process of working out His plan for man. He gave the Hebrews of old the victory in their battles, yet it was they themselves who were the instruments He used to give them that victory. In a similar same way, believers--spiritual warriors arrayed in the armor of God, must battle and prevail over the god of this world and his evil minions, even though the victory is already assured. Because the power of sin came through the choices made by a man, the power of sin had to be conquered through the choices made by a man.

    We will have all eternity to offer thanksgiving, praise, worship and honor to our God, as we behold Him dwelling in His temple of glorified humanity--a temple not made by hands--that He ordained for Himself. And we should never forget that the faithful man He worked through to accomplish His purpose—His Christ, and very incarnation of Himself--very literally went through hell for us. And He did it by choice.
    Comments 51 Comments
    1. Longsufferer's Avatar
      Longsufferer -
      Sorry, but your entire sum of things you conclude is based on the invented doctrine of the Nicene Creed, which thinks above [beyond] that which is written, therefore is illegitimate. It would be a good and better thing for us to rather agree with God, that Jesus is His Son; likewise agree with the Lord Jesus Himself who say that He is the Son of God, rather than endlessly speak above God and His Son. The mediator between God and men is not scholastic achievement, and never was. It would be a refreshing thing to hear from those who actually and simply believe God´s Word, such as carpenters, or fishermen, or tentmakers; instead of an endless array of those that suppose themselves to be above that which is written.
    1. Kahtar's Avatar
      Kahtar -
      I actually and simply believe this:
      For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
      Clearly the Father and the Son are one and the same God
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Longsufferer View Post
      Sorry, but your entire sum of things you conclude is based on the invented doctrine of the Nicene Creed, which thinks above [beyond] that which is written, therefore is illegitimate. It would be a good and better thing for us to rather agree with God, that Jesus is His Son; likewise agree with the Lord Jesus Himself who say that He is the Son of God, rather than endlessly speak above God and His Son. The mediator between God and men is not scholastic achievement, and never was. It would be a refreshing thing to hear from those who actually and simply believe God´s Word, such as carpenters, or fishermen, or tentmakers; instead of an endless array of those that suppose themselves to be above that which is written.
      Where did I imply that Jesus is not God's Son? Perhaps you could take a deep breath, and articulate exactly what I stated that you find so unscriptural.
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kahtar View Post
      I actually and simply believe this:
      For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
      Clearly the Father and the Son are one and the same God
      I can't find anything in the article that differs with any point you made, Kahtar. Do you disagree that the humanity in which God robed Himself was fully and completely human? Paul states in 1 Tim 3:16 that Jesus was "justified" by the Spirit. I don't think God needs to be justified. A human being however, could be said o be justified by the Holy Spirit dwelling within Him. Who died on the cross? God, or a man indwelt by God? To whom did Satan offer a bribe to kneel and worship him? God the Son, or a man indwelt by God? If you think I'm denying the full deity of Jesus, then you have misunderstood me.
    1. Kahtar's Avatar
      Kahtar -
      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
      I can't find anything in the article that differs with any point you made, Kahtar.
      That's probably because I wasn't disagreeing with you.
      My disagreement was with the Longsufferer.
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kahtar View Post
      That's probably because I wasn't disagreeing with you.
      My disagreement was with the Longsufferer.
      Sorry buddy. I read and responded to your post before I read his/hers. I don't why someone would take umbrage with anything I said. I mean we should recognize that Jesus was as human as we are, in addition to being fully God, as he Scriptures clearly teach. I have had people harangue me over saying--in a different way--the exact same thing they believe, so I guess I'm always in defense mode to clarify myself. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    1. Redeemed by Grace's Avatar
      Redeemed by Grace -
      Hi SJ,

      In my critique of your article, your characterization for Satan's interaction with Jesus has way too much interpretive liberty for me... For example...

      Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post

      //

      Satan did not trust even his most accomplished demon to deal with Jesus. Oh no, he wanted to handle this one personally.
      No where within the text does this even come into mind, so you are applying an assumption, for which it is, an assumption, thus not credible, IMHO. We just don't know why Satan did what he did, but know that it happened and that Jesus passed the test.... Jesus 1; mankind 0.

      Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
      After he failed in his attempt to use the hunger and weakness of Christ’s 40-day fast against Him, Satan next offered Him a bribe: total, sovereign power over the entire earth--if He would but bow down and worship Him:
      See although Jesus is fully 100% man, He also is 100% God so Jesus had the power to give His life and to also pick it back up... He was tested, and passed with flying colors, but Satan didn't author Jesus' hunger nor His weakness... I see that as being impossible.

      And although Satan has been given a dominion over this earth for now, all of Satan movements and actions are under God's will and authority, for it is only God who is sovereign over all beings and all things.

      Another speculation you have offered is this:

      Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
      Consider this scenario for a moment. Do you suppose that Satan—in His wildest imagination, really believed that God the Son would kneel and worship him? Of course not.
      How do you know? I submit the text does declare the offer and say I see nothing about Satan knowing that it was an offer he couldn't fulfill, so I think he knew nothing less , so I'd have to also disagree with your speculation here as well.

      And your paragraph continues to speculate on the mind of Satan and why he did what he did and how he thought, for which I say is to be careful not to stand too long on sifting sand. We just don't know what he things nor should we care, but to focus on Christ --- and because of His Spirit within us, we have his mind to know who Christ is and all that He has done!


      All in all, your article has some very sound doctrinal points, amen, but I think you wondered a bit in trying to offer what Satan was thinking.... Jesus is God; Jesus is Man... Amen!
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Hello Redeemed,
      Admittedly, I improvised a bit on specifics regarding Satan's mindset, but your objections seem a little petty. I profess no special insight into the precise thoughts of Satan at the time of the temptation, but think my representative paraphrase of his mindset, intent and motives would be assessed as reasonable by most readers. Whenever I write an article, I keep in mind that not every person who reads it is Bible savvy. There are many visitors here every day--including new Christians and non-believers--who are seeking a better understanding of what Christianity is all about. As such, I try to present things in a way that even people who are unfamiliar with Scripture and doctrine can get a better understanding of the intent behind the article. Breaking things down with regard to Satan's mindset in testing Jesus' mettle is an example of that informal style. So then, my primary concern is not how well I will fare in a critique, but how well I articulate the information I'm trying to convey to a general reader.

      Assuming you agree that Satan understood the messianic prophecies beforehand, Who Jesus really was, and what successfully corrupting Him would mean for his own eternal destiny, I think it's safe to make a few general assumptions espoused in the article: I think Satan had been anticipating that encounter for thousands of years. I think knowing that the lake of fire loomed in the distance, Satan would not have trusted that assignment to any just any infernal underling. And it seems only logical that Satan would assume there was a chance of success, otherwise, there would be no point to the temptation. Finally, I didn't imply, as you suggest, that Satan "authored" Jesus' fasting and subsequent hunger. I simply pointed out that he always looks for a weakness to exploit; and introducing thoughts of food, while feigning doubt about Jesus' deity was an attempt to capitalize on Jesus' weakened physical condition. I find these assumptions reasonable, not really worthy of focus, and somewhat of a distraction from the main point of the article.

      Yet, I'm happy that you agree with the primary focus of the article. We tend to see Jesus as God first and foremost--almost to the point of failing to recognize that Jesus the man, had a choice. As He Himself stated, He could have called out from the cross, and His Father would have dispatched angels to rescue him. But He didn't. He followed through to the bitter, agonizing end, because He is the flesh and blood embodiment of God's unfathomable love. The disobedience of the first Adam brought sin upon us, and the obedience of the sinless last Adam takes it away. I just think we need to remember both sides of the Savior.
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Longsufferer View Post
      Sorry, but your entire sum of things you conclude is based on the invented doctrine of the Nicene Creed, which thinks above [beyond] that which is written, therefore is illegitimate. It would be a good and better thing for us to rather agree with God, that Jesus is His Son; likewise agree with the Lord Jesus Himself who say that He is the Son of God, rather than endlessly speak above God and His Son. The mediator between God and men is not scholastic achievement, and never was. It would be a refreshing thing to hear from those who actually and simply believe God´s Word, such as carpenters, or fishermen, or tentmakers; instead of an endless array of those that suppose themselves to be above that which is written.
      You seem to be reading a blog other than this one. Nothing you say here has anything to do with the post, as far as I can tell.

      Maybe you could make it easier for me to understand your point.
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
      See although Jesus is fully 100% man, He also is 100% God so Jesus had the power to give His life and to also pick it back up...
      Careful. Jesus did not have His divine power while on earth. Rather, John 10:17-18
      "17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

      There's a big difference there.
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
      You seem to be reading a blog other than this one. Nothing you say here has anything to do with the post, as far as I can tell.

      Maybe you could make it easier for me to understand your point.
      I think you're right. Longsufferer must have dialed the wrong number, because his criticism makes no sense in the context of my article's content.
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
      We tend to see Jesus as God first and foremost--almost to the point of failing to recognize that Jesus the man, had a choice. As He Himself stated, He could have called out from the cross, and His Father would have dispatched angels to rescue him. But He didn't. He followed through to the bitter, agonizing end, because He is the flesh and blood embodiment of God's unfathomable love. The disobedience of the first Adam brought sin upon us, and the obedience of the sinless last Adam takes it away. I just think we need to remember both sides of the Savior.
      I like your blog post and your over-arching point that Jesus as the Son of Man was human. I like your discussion of his weakness and His willingness to suffer in order to obey the Father.

      However, you make three points I'd like to comment on:

      If He were not God, He would not have been able to willingly lay down His life, and “give up the Ghost.” Nor could He have dwelled for three days among the dead in Sheol, and then walked right out through the gates—taking the keys to the place with Him!
      Certainly, God who raised Him could have made Him able to dwell in Sheol. He need not be God to do that.

      he possessed a human nature and human will to submit to God, thereby undoing the damage done in Eden
      Are you saying He obeyed out of His human nature and human will to submit to God? Wow. Who says that kind of thing anymore? Yet, that contradicts your point above, where you say that by virtue of His being God, he was "able to willingly lay down His life." Ok. so, which is it? He is able and willing because He's human or because He's God?

      Because He was fully God, He did not inherit that sin-tainted nature.
      I tend to think JC did not have the Sin Nature because he was the son of God genetically, and because He never gave in and sinned.

      Excellent article and points overall, Soj. I enjoyed it.
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Certainly, God who raised Him could have made Him able to dwell in Sheol. He need not be God to do that.
      I see your point. (after all, Lazarus was in Sheol for four days, and came out when Jesus called Him). Yet, Jesus did not simply rest in Abraham's bosom like every other righteous soul there, since He actually preached to the the spirits in prison--presumably sharing the Gospel with those whose captivity He would later lead captive. Obviously, Jesus possessed great authority from God, even in a state of death. My intended emphasis was not on His having dwelled there for three days, but rather His leaving after three days, and taking the keys of death and hell with Him when He left.

      Are you saying He obeyed out of His human nature and human will to submit to God? Wow. Who says that kind of thing anymore? Yet, that contradicts your point above, where you say that by virtue of His being God, he was "able to willingly lay down His life." Ok. so, which is it? He is able and willing because He's human or because He's God?
      My exact quote was: "And finally, if Jesus were not fully human, He would not have possessed a human nature and human will to submit to God, thereby undoing the damage done in Eden."
      The eternal Word of God is God, and therefore fully represents the mind, will and purpose of God. Only as a man could the Word incarnate possess a will distinct from that of God. And it was crucial that Jesus have a human will like Adam, so that He could submit it to God--where Adam had failed. Conversely, as He Himself said, He had the authority to take up His life again when the three days had expired. I'm not certain where you see the contradiction you refer to.

      I tend to think JC did not have the Sin Nature because he was the son of God genetically, and because He never gave in and sinned.
      The Scriptures tell us that Jesus was justified by the Spirit (literally "vindicated," in the Greek). The same Spirit of God within Him from the moment of conception is what made Him sinless. And His unwavering, selfless obedience to God is what kept Him guiltless of any wrongdoing. I'm not sure what you mean by Jesus being the Son of God genetically, but it's probably not far from my own position, stated in a recent exchange: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...-Muslim-guests I Hope I've answered your questions adequately, and I'm glad you enjoyed the article.
    1. Redeemed by Grace's Avatar
      Redeemed by Grace -
      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
      Hello Redeemed,
      Admittedly, I improvised a bit on specifics regarding Satan's mindset, but your objections seem a little petty. I profess no special insight into the precise thoughts of Satan at the time of the temptation, but think my representative paraphrase of his mindset, intent and motives would be assessed as reasonable by most readers.


      Whenever I write an article, I keep in mind that not every person who reads it is Bible savvy. There are many visitors here every day--including new Christians and non-believers--who are seeking a better understanding of what Christianity is all about. As such, I try to present things in a way that even people who are unfamiliar with Scripture and doctrine can get a better understanding of the intent behind the article. Breaking things down with regard to Satan's mindset in testing Jesus' mettle is an example of that informal style. So then, my primary concern is not how well I will fare in a critique, but how well I articulate the information I'm trying to convey to a general reader.
      Hi SJ,

      I understand.... then it must be labeled biblical speculation, and not a sample of biblical hermeneutics. I hope you would agree that there is a need to drive to that one truth within God's word, and although it may seem petty to some, a word misspoken here, or there, can dramatically change the meaning without much thought to many. So as with a contract, both sides need to understand the same Ts and Cs, for if one thought this by seeing it say that, then the contract would fall apart.... so why would the bible be any different in striving to getting to that one meaning. Thus, reading into what Satan must have thought could set a false understanding that he did 'this' because of 'that', when if it's not within the word, is speculation... Thus if it's labeled as such, helps your readers to see it as such and not as your hermeneutics.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post

      Assuming you agree that Satan understood the messianic prophecies beforehand, Who Jesus really was, and what successfully corrupting Him would mean for his own eternal destiny, I think it's safe to make a few general assumptions espoused in the article: I think Satan had been anticipating that encounter for thousands of years. I think knowing that the lake of fire loomed in the distance, Satan would not have trusted that assignment to any just any infernal underling. And it seems only logical that Satan would assume there was a chance of success, otherwise, there would be no point to the temptation. Finally, I didn't imply, as you suggest, that Satan "authored" Jesus' fasting and subsequent hunger. I simply pointed out that he always looks for a weakness to exploit; and introducing thoughts of food, while feigning doubt about Jesus' deity was an attempt to capitalize on Jesus' weakened physical condition. I find these assumptions reasonable, not really worthy of focus, and somewhat of a distraction from the main point of the article.
      It's hard to say my friend what Satan knows and doesn't know. Knowing your writings, I know what you are trying to drive towards, I'm just offering feedback as to how it may be read when taken at the face value.... It's hard to say what and why beyond what was given, so calling it your speculation within your writing is ok to do, you just didn't come out and call it as such, so I helped you...



      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
      Yet, I'm happy that you agree with the primary focus of the article. We tend to see Jesus as God first and foremost--almost to the point of failing to recognize that Jesus the man, had a choice. As He Himself stated, He could have called out from the cross, and His Father would have dispatched angels to rescue him. But He didn't. He followed through to the bitter, agonizing end, because He is the flesh and blood embodiment of God's unfathomable love. The disobedience of the first Adam brought sin upon us, and the obedience of the sinless last Adam takes it away. I just think we need to remember both sides of the Savior.
      I enjoy your writings SJ, for you come across as someone who loves the Lord and wants to dig into the word and learn, much what I enjoy myself... and only interact because of our friendship and common bond in Christ... I hope that it is OK.... Let me know if it is not.


      Blessings...
    1. Redeemed by Grace's Avatar
      Redeemed by Grace -
      Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
      Careful. Jesus did not have His divine power while on earth. Rather, John 10:17-18
      "17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

      There's a big difference there.

      Hello Eyelog,

      I would respectfully disagree... Jesus refrained, but within His refraining He is still God. The disciples worshiped Jesus.

      Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and *said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"


      Jesus is 100% God; Jesus is 100% man. And as Jesus did 100% the Father's will.... He also did it of His own will...

      So in context....

      John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
      Hello Eyelog,

      I would respectfully disagree... Jesus refrained, but within His refraining He is still God. The disciples worshiped Jesus.

      Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and *said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"


      Jesus is 100% God; Jesus is 100% man. And as Jesus did 100% the Father's will.... He also did it of His own will...

      So in context....

      John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
      Hi, Redeemed. I agree that Jesus was God on earth. But Scripture is clear He set aside His divine attributes. All miracles were done by the power of the Spirit. After the Resurrection that is an entirely different matter.

      I completely concur Jesus is the Son of God and is God.
    1. Eyelog's Avatar
      Eyelog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
      I see your point. (after all, Lazarus was in Sheol for four days, and came out when Jesus called Him). Yet, Jesus did not simply rest in Abraham's bosom like every other righteous soul there, since He actually preached to the the spirits in prison--presumably sharing the Gospel with those whose captivity He would later lead captive. Obviously, Jesus possessed great authority from God, even in a state of death. My intended emphasis was not on His having dwelled there for three days, but rather His leaving after three days, and taking the keys of death and hell with Him when He left.
      I was mistaken to question whether Jesus was in His inherent power after He was raised from the dead. Of course He was. So, you are right about that. My point, in general, is supposed to be that Jesus shed His inherent deific power to become a human, and all miraculous activity prior to the resurrection was by the Holy Spirit, not by His inherent deity, though, indeed, He was and is the deity.

      So far as the indwelling of the Spirit keeping Him sinless, note that we have it too, and it does not keep us sinless. By genetics I was referring to the fact that His father was God, not a human. The curse of the sin nature is passed on, spiritually speaking, via the male, not the female. So, you have Jesus as a man just like the first Adam, with the indwelling of the Spirit, but the Father was in communion with Him from the start, and jesus was led by the Father/the Spirit. He obeyed the father primarily out of trusting in His promises. The Garden of Gethsemane is a great example. In fact, after He heals the ear, I see no further acts by the Spirit. Then, on the Cross, the indwelling Spirit leaves Him entirely, and the Father turns His back on Him. He cries out, having been forsaken. Yet, He remains on the Cross and continues to tough it out, using real, live human will power and no power of the Spirit and no inherent deific power, etc.

      Although you and I are describing the details differently, we certainly agree in general. God bless, brother. Yours is a great article in any event.
    1. episkopos's Avatar
      episkopos -
      The basic idea of Jesus being both fully man as well as fully God shows that Jesus Christ is truly the Mediator between God and men in being and not just in function. If Jesus is really a man, then His being is permanently entwined with the "fate" of men. There is no going back. God has fused Himself to His own creation. Another ramification is that we can BE like Him since He has perfected the holy walk while still in the flesh.

      I find that most evangelicals have a hard time with the human aspect of Jesus. They are so focused on His divinity and ability to save, they forget that Jesus commands us to follow Him and do what He does...as the power of life in us through grace. How many believe in the empowering of the Spirit to walk as He walked and have a complete victory over sin?
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Hi Redeemed,
      Yes, you're right. I did take a few liberties, and engaged in speculation with regard to Satan's thoughts. But I obviously intended them to be perceived in a colloquial sense, rather than an attempt to authoritatively and accurately portray what Satan was thinking. And don't misunderstand me. Certainly I welcome your feedback and comments, which help to refine my thoughts, and clarify points what may be misunderstood by others. I also value your friendship, and have a mutual love and respect for you. It's important to maintain the Biblical fidelity of my words by having them viewed objectively by others. And this purpose is served by the constructive criticism by those who take the time to read my stuff. As most people pass over posts of more than a few paragraphs, the very fact that you and and others even do read my writings is appreciated. If my response to your comments ever seem a rebuff, believe me, that's not my intent. I must admit to an occasional lapse into "defense mode," but I'm working on that. We may occasionally differ on some nuance because of our differing perspective, but that's okay, as long as we maintain the integrity of the fundamental tenets of our faith as the foundation we build and collaborate on.
    1. Sojourner55's Avatar
      Sojourner55 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
      My point, in general, is supposed to be that Jesus shed His inherent deific power to become a human, and all miraculous activity prior to the resurrection was by the Holy Spirit, not by His inherent deity, though, indeed, He was and is the deity.
      I agree with most of this view. As I pointed out in the article, there are instances in which Jesus Himself admitted nor only His lack of equal power with the Father, but also authority, and even knowledge of when He would return. Many people bristle at the inference that Jesus did not possess this fullness, but I think we should take Jesus' word for it. After His resurrection, He said that all power in heaven and earth had been given to Him, which means He did not have it before that. Certainly, it existed within Him all along by virtue of the omnipotent and omniscient Spirit of God, but He did and said only as He was led by the Father within Him, not drawing upon the power autonomously. I think Paul said it best in his letter to the Philippians:

      You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal's death on a cross. (Phil 2:5-8 NLT)

      So far as the indwelling of the Spirit keeping Him sinless, note that we have it too, and it does not keep us sinless.
      True. But then we were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the moment of conception. Certainly however, Jesus did, by His innate righteousness and devotion to God, conquer sin and every temptation known to man--and then some. But somewhere along the line, we must account for Jesus having been "justified by the Spirit." (Perhaps that would make a good topic in the Bible discussion forum).

      By genetics I was referring to the fact that His father was God, not a human. The curse of the sin nature is passed on, spiritually speaking, via the male, not the female. So, you have Jesus as a man just like the first Adam, with the indwelling of the Spirit, but the Father was in communion with Him from the start, and Jesus was led by the Father/the Spirit. He obeyed the father primarily out of trusting in His promises. The Garden of Gethsemane is a great example. In fact, after He heals the ear, I see no further acts by the Spirit. Then, on the Cross, the indwelling Spirit leaves Him entirely, and the Father turns His back on Him. He cries out, having been forsaken. Yet, He remains on the Cross and continues to tough it out, using real, live human will power and no power of the Spirit and no inherent deific power, etc.

      Yes, as in the above verse, though Jesus existed eternally as God before the incarnation, and had divine prerogatives available to Him, it was necessary for Him to live, suffer, and die as a flesh and blood man--even though He did so of His own volition.

      Although you and I are describing the details differently, we certainly agree in general. God bless, brother. Yours is a great article in any event.
      Yeah, we're pretty much on the same page, for sure. It's gratifying to have my humble efforts appreciated, bro. And I very much appreciate both your feedback and the camaraderie we share. You know, I love to study the Bible, and I love to share what I learn. I haven't taught Sunday school in years, so this forum sort of gives me an outlet. Still, I think I'm going to back off the articles for a while. So many of the submissions on the Home page are mine, I'm starting to feel self-conscious.
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