BibleForums Christian Message Board http://bibleforums.org/ A free online Christian Community. Active, moderated Christian Message Board. en Thu, 17 May 2012 12:26:04 GMT vBulletin 60 http://bibleforums.org/images/misc/rss.png BibleForums Christian Message Board http://bibleforums.org/ IRAN: Lawyer of Iranian Pastor threatened with prison. http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238368-IRAN-Lawyer-of-Iranian-Pastor-threatened-with-prison?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 12:01:52 GMT Opendoors.org
"He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, 'He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.'" Psalms 91:1-2
Iranian Human Rights Lawyer Faced Prison Setence
On April 28, an Iranian appeal court upheld a nine-year prison sentence handed down last July against Mohammad Ali Dadkhah, the head defense lawyer in Iranian pastor Yousef Nadarkhani’s death sentence appeal case. According to Amnesty International, the charges against Dadkhah included “membership of an association seeking the soft overthrow of the government” and “spreading propaganda against the system through interviews with foreign media.” The sentence also includes a 10-year ban from practicing law and teaching.
Dadkhah has been defending embattled Iranian pastor Yousef Nadarkhani in his appeal before the Supreme Court of Iran. Yousef was found guilty of “leaving Islam” in September of 2010 and sentenced to death by a court of appeals near Tehran. Since then, the pastor and his lawyers have been attempting to appeal his sentence. In June of last year, the Supreme Court of Iran upheld the lower courts guilty verdict and sent Nadarkhani’s case to the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei for a final decision on his death sentence. It is not clear yet what effect Dadkhah’s imminent incarceration will have on Nadarkhani’s case.
Compass Direct News reports that Dadkhah is co-founder of Iran’s Center for Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) which was forcibly closed in 2008. Many of CHRD’s members are already serving jail terms for challenging human rights violations by the Iranian government. Though the well-known human rights lawyer’s sentence was issued within a month of the high court’s ruling against Nadarkhani, an expert on Iran believes that, “Dadkhah’s arrest has been coming for a long time, so it’s not a surprise. The surprise is that he’s been able to practice for such a long time.“ Dadkhah is one of the few lawyers in Iran willing to risk his career and personal safety to defend the religious and political freedom of Iranians. The source told Compass Direct News, “Many of the Christians who face court hearings do so without legal representation. Simply by taking on a case of which the government disapproves, a case which challenges the government, would be high risk for a lawyer.”
Iran ranks fifth on the Open Doors World Watch List of the 50 countries in which believers experience the most severe persecution. An anonymous expert on Iran commented that Dadkhah’s sentence, “… is not good news. My sense is that the rule of law in Iran is abused, and the decisions of the Iranian courts are unpredictable and at the whim of the authorities. Pressure on Iranian believers has only intensified in recent months with several home raids and dozens of believers arrested. Mohabat News reports that Iran’s Revolutionary Court recently sentenced Farshid Fathi, a believer who has been interned at Tehran’s Evin Prison since 2010, to six years in prison.
Father, we know that Your hand is not shortened and You are still the ultimate authority in Iran. Work mightily on behalf of the embattled believers in Iran – prompt judges to reverse court decisions against them and to release those already in prison. You have seen the decision against Mohammad Ali Dadkhah, that he is being punished for defending Your people. We ask that not only would the court’s decision be overthrown, but that this situation would draw Dadkhah to You. We know that all things are possible for You, Adoni. Please soften the heart of the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei and cause him to repeal the death sentence against our brother Yousef Nadarkhani. And give the church in Iran strength to pray as the disciples in Acts that You would look upon the threats against ]]> Prayer for the Persecuted Church http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238368-IRAN-Lawyer-of-Iranian-Pastor-threatened-with-prison EGYPT: Judge exonerates brutal attackers of Christian. http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238367-EGYPT-Judge-exonerates-brutal-attackers-of-Christian?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 11:55:18 GMT I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2 Image: http://www.opendoorsusa.org/images/egypt_th2.jpg Opendoors.org More than a year after a brutal attack on Egyptian Christian Ayman Anwar... I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2
Opendoors.org
More than a year after a brutal attack on Egyptian Christian Ayman Anwar Metry, a judge in Qena has exonerated the group of Salafi Muslim men who cut off his ear and beat him nearly to death. The April 22 decision came after Metry succumbed to intense pressure to drop the charges during a “reconciliation meeting,” according to his attorney Asphoure Wahieb Hekouky. Since the attack on March 20, 2011, local authorities have done nothing to stop the threats, intimidation and violent attacks by Metry’s assailants who demanded that he drop all charges against them.
Metry’s nightmare began when he was lured into the burnt out shell of an apartment he rented out and accosted by a group of around 20 Salafi Muslims accusing him of an affair with a Muslim woman. Despite being intensely beaten and cut all over his body, the married father of three maintained his innocence. The woman accused of adultery with Metry was brought into the room and also denied the charges. After they had beaten her, the Salafist began cutting open the back of Metry’s neck and told her they would kill him unless she confessed. The woman admitted to having some kind of affair with him. Metry continued to deny their claims and refused to say the Shahada, the Islamic creed for conversion. The further enraged Salafists then cutting off his left ear. The Christian reported that “If you saw how I looked then … My shirt, if you squeezed it, it dripped an unbelievable amount of blood. With all the blood that was on the floor, it looked like there was a sheep slaughtered there. They thought that I was dead, so then they called the police and said, ‘We took our sharia [Islamic law] rights, now you come and take your civil rights from him.’”
After both Metry and the woman were treated at the hospital, they were taken into police custody. The woman told police that there was nothing between them and that she had been forced to say so by the Salafists. Her attackers later found her and beat her again for telling the truth, breaking her fingers and threatening her family if she did not change her statement. The authorities did not arrest anyone in connection with her attack.
According to Compass Direct News, in the year since the attack, Metry and his family have been harried by attacks from his Salafi Muslim assailants, seeking to intimidate him into dropping the charges. Pleas for help from the police fell on deaf ears as the Salafists shot at his family members, threatened to kidnap his sisters and surrounded his house threatening to burn it down. The final straw, however, came from Bishop Sharoubeem, the Coptic Orthodox bishop of Qena. “He asked me to drop the case, but I insisted on not dropping the case at all. I insisted on getting my rights back,” Metry reports “But when a bishop comes and asks you to drop the case, what else could you do other than following his advice? He told me that they might try and attack or burn the local church if I didn’t drop the case.”
In addition to the physical toll the ordeal has taken on Metry who required 35 stitches and two reconstructive surgeries to patch up the place his left ear once occupied, the believer’s entire family has suffered continual emotional trauma since the attack. His wife, Thanaa Yakoub Gerges, expressed concern for toll it has taken, especially on the couple’s three children. “We were living well, the children and us, but after what happened emotionally we are below zero,” she said. “It made us hate the house, the city and the whole country. Imagine when you lose your reputation and can’t move. We were destroyed gradually, this happened more than a year ago, and the children are being destroyed gradually. I am willing to die for Christ, but these are my children who are being attacked.”
In the midst of this ordeal, Ayman Anwar Metry shared with Compass Direct News that God has still been strengthening him. “I am not saying this to puff up my spirit, but at that moment when they were attacking me, I couldn’t believe the faith that was in me. I couldn’t believe that I actually had this faith, it was a testimony – I won, I didn’t lose,” he said. “They tried everything to convert me to Islam, but I didn’t care. I said they could do anything they wanted to me, I wouldn’t convert.”
Lord Jesus, we know that You weep with those who weep and are very near to the oppressed. Please comfort and strengthen by Your Spirit Ayman Anwar Metry and his entire family as they face not only continued harassment from the Salafi Muslims, but also the government’s refusal to act on their behalf. Go forth as Jehovah Nissi, the Lord our banner, on behalf of Your child and bring him through this situation as more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus! We ask too that Metry’s attitude, courage and faithfulness become a powerful testimony to his Muslim neighbors and to his attackers. What the Salafists meant for evil, please work for good in bringing many to salvation! As persecution intensifies during this troubled transition time in Egypt, empower Your church to remain faithful, and bring about a great revival among the Muslims of that country. ]]> Prayer for the Persecuted Church http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238367-EGYPT-Judge-exonerates-brutal-attackers-of-Christian SYRIA: Thousands of Christians flee nighmare. http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238366-SYRIA-Thousands-of-Christians-flee-nighmare?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 11:47:56 GMT opendoors.org May 16 2012 “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2 Image:... opendoors.org
May 16 2012
“He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2
Already traumatized by the deadly clashes between government forces and protestors in the months since the Arab Spring of 2011, Syrian Christians are facing increased persecution from the pro-democracy rebel groups. Many Christians had already fled the embattled city to escape the ongoing conflict. In recent months, however, thousands of the remaining Christians have been forced to abandon their homes, jobs and possessions by the Sunni Muslim rebels who have taken over much of the city of Homs, Syria.
According to Open Doors’ sources, Christians report visits from rebels informing them that they are taking over the area and the believers must leave. Families gather whatever they can carry and make the perilous journey out of Homs through government checkpoints. Host families in cities throughout Syria have opened their homes to the refugees and local churches are scrambling to meet the needs of these displaced brothers and sisters. The burden of housing and feeding nearly 35,000 people is overwhelming for churches throughout Syria. Crowded into their temporary host homes, the displaced families face mounting challenges as they search for work, try to get their children into new schools and deal with the emotional toll of the conflict and forced exodus.
Open Doors is providing emergency relief packages, food and medical aid to help the overwhelmed Syrian Christian community. “You (Open Doors) make it possible that we can stay,” a Syrian woman who recently fled Homs said with a big smile on her face just after she received a relief package in a church building. In addition to providing relief to fellow believers, many Christians have chosen to see the current conflict as a chance to share the gospel with their communities.
Syria ranked 36th on the 2012 World Watch List of the 50 countries in which Christians experience the most persecution this year, up from 38th last year. Syrian Christians had enjoyed relative peace and religious tolerance under the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, but have experienced a rise in persecution as the anti-al-Assad Sunni and Salafi Muslim groups have gained power throughout the country.
Father in heaven, Your people throughout history have experienced exile and displacement at the hands of their enemies. In the midst of confusion and uncertainty, You are the source of stability, purpose and provision. We ask that You would be all of those things for our brothers and sisters in Syria who are struggling to deal with the loss of their homes, possessions, jobs and communities. What Satan intended for evil to bring tension and confusion to the church in Syria, please transform for good: make Your people a light wherever they go and grant them peace that passes understanding. Give Your church boldness to share the truth with their friends and neighbors during these uncertain times and out of the scattering seeds of persecution bring a harvest of revival such as Syria has never seen! In the powerful name of Jesus, Amen.
]]> Prayer for the Persecuted Church http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238366-SYRIA-Thousands-of-Christians-flee-nighmare IRAN: Church being asked for list of names and identification numbers. http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238365-IRAN-Church-being-asked-for-list-of-names-and-identification-numbers?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 11:40:53 GMT Opendoors.org Tehran May 16 2012 “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2 Image:... Opendoors.org
Tehran May 16 2012
“He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in Him I will trust.’” Psalms 91:1-2
On Sunday, May 6th, the leadership of the Assemblies of God (AOG) Central Church of Tehran asked church members to volunteer their information in the face of the government’s demand for a list of the names and identification numbers of everyone in the congregation. Providing their names and information presents a major risk, especially for converts from Islam. “This [government move] is basically to make sure the church is not taking in new members and to make it difficult and risky for non-Christians to attend,” Monsour Borji, an Iranian Christian and advocacy officer for rights initiative Article 18, told Compass Direct News. “It is an effort to limit the church, basically.”
This latest demand from authorities signals their determination to tighten the reigns on official churches in Iran. If churches comply with the authorities demands, members may face increasing monitoring and Muslim background believers could face serious consequences. These new measures could become serious deterrents to Muslims interested in the gospel. “For a long time there has been surveillance, but this new requirement is another sign that they are seeking to control and limit attendance of those who come from non-Christian backgrounds and to keep the Muslims away,” said an expert on the region who requested anonymity.
Authorities have regularly monitored the Central AOG church for the past 20 years, and are becoming increasingly aggressive in tactics to pressure leadership and members. Borji reports that in addition to constant surveillance of leaders and occasional interrogation of church members, the authorities have recently “cut the supply line” by limiting the publication of Bibles and other religious materials. Believers at the Central AOG church are questioning whether refusing to put themselves in danger by complying with the government demands constitutes a denial of Christ. “It has created an ethical dilemma for some church members who are not sure what to do, because giving their information feels suicidal,” Borji said.
The Central AOG church is the only remaining church in Tehran that offers Farsi-speaking services on Sundays. They were forced to close their Friday service in 2009, but have experienced increased Sunday attendance since that time. The only other two churches offering Farsi-speaking Friday services, Emmanuel Protestant Church and St. Peter’s Evangelical Church, were forced to discontinue their Friday services in February. Though the Iranian regime is slightly more tolerant of Christianity among minority groups such as Armenians and Assyrians, they view Farsi converts to Christianity as enemies of the state. Borji explained, “Accepting the notion of a church that worships in Farsi is a threat to a regime that demands religious monopoly.” ]]> Prayer for the Persecuted Church http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238365-IRAN-Church-being-asked-for-list-of-names-and-identification-numbers Bespreking Wie is die Bruid en wie is die bruilofsgangers?? http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238363-Wie-is-die-Bruid-en-wie-is-die-bruilofsgangers?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 06:08:57 GMT Ek vra die vraag nav ander drade op die forum wat deel met wegraping en tweede kanse ..... Wie is die Bruid van Christus? Wie is die Bruilofs-gangers?? Ek vra die vraag nav ander drade op die forum wat deel met wegraping en tweede kanse .....

Wie is die Bruid van Christus?
Wie is die Bruilofs-gangers?? ]]> Vrae en menings oor die Bybel Ta-An http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238363-Wie-is-die-Bruid-en-wie-is-die-bruilofsgangers Help asseblief HALLELUJAH!! http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238362-HALLELUJAH!!?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 05:46:51 GMT Prys die Here! Prys die Naam van ons Koning! Dankie Here vir verlossing uit sonde! Dankie Here dat ons kan leef met die vooruitsig dat U ons sal kom haal. Dankie dat ons kan leef met die vooruitsig van Lewe na die dood, wanneer ons U van...
Prys die Here!
Prys die Naam van ons Koning!
Dankie Here vir verlossing uit sonde!
Dankie Here dat ons kan leef met die vooruitsig dat U ons sal kom haal.
Dankie dat ons kan leef met die vooruitsig van Lewe na die dood, wanneer ons U van aangesig tot aangesig sal sien.

Ons Koning kom!!
]]> Alles en nog wat Ta-An http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238362-HALLELUJAH!! SUDAN – Churches alarmed by closure of Christian offices. http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238360-SUDAN-–-Churches-alarmed-by-closure-of-Christian-offices?goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 02:05:45 GMT Christians in South Darfur state are 'deeply disturbed' after security officials closed down the offices of a major church organisation and a Christian relief agency.

Staff members from the Sudan Council of Churches (SCC) and Sudan Aid were ordered to hand over the keys to offices and vehicles in their compound in Nyala – and leave the site at once. Five Sudan Aid staff members were detained – and, while two were later released, three have not been seen since. Security agents also closed down a church clinic that served the poor in the local area.

The compound is now reported to be cordoned off and under armed guard. The SCC has since had its bank accounts frozen.

The raid on April 22 came as Sudan is putting increasing pressure on the ethnic South Sudanese, who are mainly Christian or animist, to leave for South Sudan. In South Kordofan, Sudanese government troops have attacked ethnic Nuba people, many of whom are Christian, accusing them of being pro-southern.

Sudan is not currently allowing South Sudan to export any oil through its territory until the two nations resolve all disputes over border security. Also, they still have to resolve thorny issues such as border demarcation in the oil-rich area of Abyei.

For more news and a country profile about Sudan and South Sudan, click here

(Sources: allAfrica.com; Compass Direct; Reuters)

• Pray for the estimated 350,000 South Sudanese, many of them Christian, who remain in Sudan, which is predominantly Arabic and Muslim. Ask God to protect His people, particularly in troubled border areas.
• Pray that the international community will act to prevent South Sudan and Sudan sliding into civil war again. The African Union has threatened sanctions after three months unless both sides abide by its plan, endorsed by the UN, which calls for a ceasefire, troop withdrawal from disputed areas and renewed peace talks.
 ]]> Prayer for the Persecuted Church http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238360-SUDAN-–-Churches-alarmed-by-closure-of-Christian-offices <![CDATA[Göbekli Tepe and Noah's Flood]]> http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238359-Göbekli-Tepe-and-Noah-s-Flood?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:58:23 GMT The oldest known archeological site of human habitation/history is Göbekli Tepe in south central Turkey. Archeologists place its date at 12,000 years old (10,000 BC). Interesting, the site is just south west of Mr. Ararat, where Noah's Ark landed after the Flood. But when was the Flood?

This ancient city is buried in sand? Could it have been burried by the sediments of the Great Flood?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe ]]> Bible Chat WSGAC http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238359-Göbekli-Tepe-and-Noah-s-Flood Besides me, there is no savior ??? http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238358-Besides-me-there-is-no-savior?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:33:40 GMT Big shocker when I seen this scripture. Two different questions in this post. Explain this scripture: *Isaiah 43* 11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. Is this Judaism? Big shocker when I seen this scripture.

Two different questions in this post.

Explain this scripture:

Isaiah 43
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Is this Judaism?


Does this verse explain it? :
John 10
30 I and my Father are one.



Here is an example, how the New Testament overrides the Old Testament :
Matthew 5
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Is this correction by Jesus, what Judaism should move towards? That the New Testament has updated the Old Testament by Jesus since according to John 10:30 Jesus and the father are one.





The second question : Will God go away or die??? :hmm:

This scripture made me ask :
Isaish 43
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.




Just found I needed some clearing up on verses here. Thanks for helping. :hug: ]]> Growing in Christ Protective Angel http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238358-Besides-me-there-is-no-savior Hello Everyone :) http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238357-Hello-Everyone-)?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:25:19 GMT I'm TW, and I'm happy to be here! I was randomly Google searching on topics related to Christ and I ended up here! I'm loving the topics I've read so far so I've decided to join and be a member. Nice to e-meet you all ;) ]]> Introductions MissTW http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238357-Hello-Everyone-) Better known as..... http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238355-Better-known-as?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 20:26:31 GMT Celebrities who changed their names... Born: Maurice Joseph Micklewhite, better known as..................Michael Caine Born: Marion Michael Morrison, better known as.......................John Wayne Born: Leslie Townes Hope, better known... Celebrities who changed their names...

Born: Maurice Joseph Micklewhite, better known as..................Michael Caine

Born: Marion Michael Morrison, better known as.......................John Wayne

Born: Leslie Townes Hope, better known as.............................Bob Hope

Born: Charles Buchinsky, better known as...............................Charles Bronson

Born: Archibald Leech, better known as...................................Cary Grant

Born: Alfie Jones, better known as..........................................Yul Brynner

Born: Thomas John Woodward, better known as.......................Tom Jones

Born: Reginald Kenneth Dwight, better known as......................Elton John

Born: Carlos Irwin Esteves, better known as............................Charlie Sheen

Born: Reginald Coppola, better known as.................................Nicholas Cage

Born: Steven Judkins, better known as....................................Stevie Wonder

Born: Caryn Johnson, better known as.....................................Whoopie Goldberg

Born: Allen Konigsberg, better known as..................................Woody Allen

Born: Patricia Andrzejewski, better known as............................Pat Benatar

Born: Jacob Cohen, better known as.........................................Rodney Dangerfield

Born: Henry John Deutschendorf, better known as.....................John Denver

Born: Issur Danielovitch Demsky, better known as.....................Kirk Douglas

Born: Frances Gumm, better known as......................................Judy Garland

Born: Lawrence Harvey Zeiger, better known as.........................Larry King

Born: Jonathan Stuart Liebowitz, better known as.......................Jon Stewart


There are no doubt a whole lot more. Feel free to add. ]]> Christian Fellowship Sojourner55 http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238355-Better-known-as Are We the Last Generation? http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238349-Are-We-the-Last-Generation?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 14:19:56 GMT Does anyone else sometimes feel like we really are the last generation before Jesus returns? I see how secularism and wordliness is permeating the youth more and more... and that's in America. America seems to have a stronger belief in God than most other Western culture nations like Europe and Canada. And even then, we're degrading. I used to believe that Jesus would return before my 40th birthday (2031), and to an extent I still feel as though this world won't make it to 2040. It seems like things are just like they were in Noah's time. Godly, Christian women (part of "the daughters of men") are dating and marrying the sons of God (fallen angels, or in this case, young men under influence of said demons). Anyone else have this feeling that hey, this is it, the clock's about to run out. ]]> Young Adults Fellowship Youssarian http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238349-Are-We-the-Last-Generation 7 Women and 1 Man http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238342-7-Women-and-1-Man?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 11:39:01 GMT (Isa 4:1) And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. Literal: If we read this in the context we see that this... (Isa 4:1) And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Literal: If we read this in the context we see that this refers to the "daughters of Jerusalem" or women of the previous chapter 3. However, I would like to look at it from the perspective of the New Jerusalem or Church.

Pessimistic View: The "seven women" are the complete religious system who are only concerned with being "called by thy name" (the "one man" being Jesus, and being named Christians). "Bread" refers to the word of God. The religious system is only concerned with eating their own bread and refuse to teach/preach the full gospel. They "wear our own apparel" refers to self righteousness, rather than putting on Christ. And reproach has to do with barrenness, or inability to reproduce; it also can refer to being husbandless (not married to Christ).

Optimistic View: Everything is the same as above, however, the seven women are the bride of Christ (ala the 7 churches of Revelation married to Jesus). The glorious Bride with some spots and wrinkles. His blood washes away spots and His fire/heat gets the wrinkles out like a hot iron.

I am an optimist, but from what I see in the church world, I have to lean more towards the thought that these seven women represent a corrupt religious system, Jezebel, Harlot, etc. ]]> Bible Chat Luciano Vinci http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238342-7-Women-and-1-Man Times of the Gentiles http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238336-Times-of-the-Gentiles?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 05:50:32 GMT Greetings. Luke 21:24 1-) Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in _those days_; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be... Greetings.
Luke 21:24
1-) Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days;
for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;
and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.


　
1-) Those days , being the temples destruction.
24- Jewish exile and Gentile control over Jerusalem until ?
　
I am interested in reading everyones thoughts on the above.

What will bring an end to the times of the Gentiles over Jerusalem?
Why would that be important regarding the end?

My thoughts,
Exile led to Gentiles trampling Jerusalem, so will Jewish return to Jerusalem put an end to the times of the Gentiles? What else could?
The Gospel is to be preached to all Gentiles, and then the end will come. ( The times of the Gentiles wouldnt be fulfilled without this )

This end would then have something to do with Jewish control of Jerusalem.:hmm:

p.s.
Luke also mentions that these days of vengeance ( events begining in AD70) were foretold by the Prophets.
　
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

　
What Scriptures refer to this ?--latter verses of Deut 28 perhaps.

Please share your thoughts.
　
　
 ]]> End Times Chat jeffweeder http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238336-Times-of-the-Gentiles The Branch http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238335-The-Branch?goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 03:24:06 GMT I was studying Isa. 4 today and had a thought about the Branch. It seems like the translators always have this word in caps in the Old Testament, obviously in reference to the Messiah/God. However, every NT reference to branches always seem to... I was studying Isa. 4 today and had a thought about the Branch. It seems like the translators always have this word in caps in the Old Testament, obviously in reference to the Messiah/God. However, every NT reference to branches always seem to refer to Christ the Body and not Christ the Head. Jesus is referred to as the Vine/Tree and we (His Body) are referred to as the branch (i.e. Jn. 15). Even in reference to Jews and Gentiles being grafted in, the image is that of branches grafted into a single tree.

So then, is the BRANCH of the Lord, the Lord Himself, or the offshoot of the LORD/TREE? Or is it in reference to something else? ]]> Bible Chat Luciano Vinci http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/238335-The-Branch