"Birth control" methods

[RZ06]

My husband & I were discussing this and we were wondering about some things.

What does it say in the Bible about this stuff?

Are you supposed to just rely on the NFP method (natural family planning)? Or does the Bible not state anything wrong w/ using artificial hormones, condoms, and the pull & pray method (:lol:)? The pull & pray we really question since wouldn't that be a form of masturbation? And if you are one that doesn't belive masturbation is ok, then you'd think it was a sin, right?

For NFP, you just cannot assume every month that your cycle is on the dot, but I suppose that that is about having faith and leaving it in God's hands.

[Krav]

There are sure to be differing views on this, but some methods are scientifically proven to be abortifacient. Meaning, they cause or promote the termination of life.

By "pull and pray" I assume you're referring to "withdrawal." I don't see anything wrong with it. Masturbation is something an individual does in isolation and to the exclusion of their spouse. This is a sin because it usually involves sinful imaginations and it also excludes the spouse from the activity.

I don't see anything wrong with condoms either because they prevent the fertilization of an egg, rather than destroying an egg once it's been fertilized.

I'm sure there will be plenty to chime in from the persuasion that we should just leave it in God's hands.

I agree with Jon Courson on this one. I remember Jon teaching on God's creative work in Genesis. God created for 6 days and on the 7th day He rested. Was God tired? No. Was God out of creative ability? No. However, God said that "it was good." And, He rested.

We can do the same thing. My wife and I have 3 children and we, together, said, "it is good." And ,thus we rested from our creative work ;)

[Rufus_1611]

My husband & I were discussing this and we were wondering about some things.

What does it say in the Bible about this stuff?

Are you supposed to just rely on the NFP method (natural family planning)? Or does the Bible not state anything wrong w/ using artificial hormones, condoms, and the pull & pray method (:lol:)? The pull & pray we really question since wouldn't that be a form of masturbation? And if you are one that doesn't belive masturbation is ok, then you'd think it was a sin, right?

For NFP, you just cannot assume every month that your cycle is on the dot, but I suppose that that is about having faith and leaving it in God's hands.

The Bible regarding birth control...

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." - Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth." - Genesis 9:1

"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein." - Genesis 9:7

"As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate." - Psalms 127:4-5

[Kaninchen]

The Bible regarding birth control...

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." - Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth." - Genesis 9:1

"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein." - Genesis 9:7

"As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate." - Psalms 127:4-5

Yes, but what if the family does not have means to support a child/additional children? Shouldn't they use some method to delay having more children until they feel they can 'afford' it, or stop having children altogether? Also, I believe all children should be wanted. I don't feel it would be fair on the couple or the child for the parents to have children out of a sense of obligation, especially if they feel they are not ready yet, or have a large enough family.

[Truthinlove]

My husband & I were discussing this and we were wondering about some things.

What does it say in the Bible about this stuff?

Are you supposed to just rely on the NFP method (natural family planning)? Or does the Bible not state anything wrong w/ using artificial hormones, condoms, and the pull & pray method (:lol:)? The pull & pray we really question since wouldn't that be a form of masturbation? And if you are one that doesn't belive masturbation is ok, then you'd think it was a sin, right?

For NFP, you just cannot assume every month that your cycle is on the dot, but I suppose that that is about having faith and leaving it in God's hands.

Hi RZ06, I remember that you started this bc thread a couple of months back...seems like you are still undecided.

http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=129924

The Bible does not really speak about birth control.

But, it does speak of how children are a gift from God.

It does speak of human life beginning at conception.

God puts GREAT VALUE on the unborn, therefore ANY method of BC that causes an early abortion is wrong.

That would include ALL HORMONAL bc.

Condoms, female condoms, diaphragm, spermicide, sponge, withdrawl, nfp are all PREVENTATIVE.
These forms NEVER cause the death of an already conceived child.

Some will argue that even those are wrong, but I believe that preventative bc is a personal decision. God is in control and we are called to trust God.
You and your husband will just have to continue to pray and seek God's will in this.

[RZ06]

Oops! I forgot about that :blushsad: Sorry! I'll have to go back and read that.

Hi RZ06, I remember that you started this bc thread a couple of months back...seems like you are still undecided.

http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=129924

The Bible does not really speak about birth control.

But, it does speak of how children are a gift from God.

It does speak of human life beginning at conception.

God puts GREAT VALUE on the unborn, therefore ANY method of BC that causes an early abortion is wrong.

That would include ALL HORMONAL bc.

Condoms, female condoms, diaphragm, spermicide, sponge, withdrawl, nfp are all PREVENTATIVE.
These forms NEVER cause the death of an already conceived child.

Some will argue that even those are wrong, but I believe that preventative bc is a personal decision. God is in control and we are called to trust God.
You and your husband will just have to continue to pray and seek God's will in this.

[Bethany67]

The Bible does not really speak about birth control.

But, it does speak of how children are a gift from God.

It does speak of human life beginning at conception.

God puts GREAT VALUE on the unborn, therefore ANY method of BC that causes an early abortion is wrong.

That would include ALL HORMONAL bc.

Condoms, female condoms, diaphragm, spermicide, sponge, withdrawl, nfp are all PREVENTATIVE.
These forms NEVER cause the death of an already conceived child.

Some will argue that even those are wrong, but I believe that preventative bc is a personal decision. God is in control and we are called to trust God.
You and your husband will just have to continue to pray and seek God's will in this.

This would be my view if I had to reach a decision about it all again.

[Revinius]

we are told "children are a blessing".... meditate on that....

[Krav]

Yes, but what if the family does not have means to support a child/additional children? Shouldn't they use some method to delay having more children until they feel they can 'afford' it, or stop having children altogether? Also, I believe all children should be wanted. I don't feel it would be fair on the couple or the child for the parents to have children out of a sense of obligation, especially if they feel they are not ready yet, or have a large enough family.

Kaninchen, that is a good point.

One thing that has to be taken into account is the context in which those verses were written in. In the Eastern culture the more children you had or have, the better. They would work on the farm and be a financial asset to the family.

However, in modern Western Culture it is not that way. Unfortunately, children usually do not contribute to the family's bottom line like they used to. It is usually the opposite now. That is one reason why we see such a decline in birth rates in Western Culture versus Eastern culture.

I think this is a personal decision each family must prayerfully make. But, I don't think we are all commanded to just "be fruitful and multiply." Those passages cited above were given to Adam and Noah to populate an unpopulated earth. Well, the earth is quite populated now ;)

[ServantofTruth]

There are times when the bible has not clearly addressed an issue and at those times we are unwise to take a stance based on a few verses that are in the 'area' but not specific to our question.

A few good points have been brought out above though. As this is in the New in Christ forum, it is unlikely that you and your husband know the bible well.

The best advice i can give you is make bible study a daily event together. Seek God's Will/ Wisdom for you as individuals, as a couple and beyond in the church and society.

Sometimes God has NOT given us a clear answer. But by reading the whole bible continuously our decisions line up better with his Will each day.

If anyone gives you a clear answer - i for one, would love to read it posted here, backed of course by bible verses. Personal opinion is unimportant to me, only God's Will in scripture.

Sorry i can't answer specifics - at this time, i don't believe God has answered this one. SofTy.

[Tanya~]

Natural family planning works very effectively. Look into the sympto-thermal method for more information.

[Sold Out]

My husband & I were discussing this and we were wondering about some things.

What does it say in the Bible about this stuff?

For NFP, you just cannot assume every month that your cycle is on the dot, but I suppose that that is about having faith and leaving it in God's hands.

The bible is relatively silent on the subject of birth control. We ARE told that children are a blessing and reward. I think you and your husband should just pray and ask for godly wisdom when making decisions about having children.

[Joe King]

Genesis 38:

9Onan knew that the (H)offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother.

10But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He (I)took his life also.

I am looking for another passage where it says your seed shall not hit the ground. So I'm interpreting that as it can only be released "inside".

[Joe King]

Leviticus 15:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=16&version=8&context=verse)
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall bathe all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
Leviticus 15:15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=15&end_verse=17&version=8&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&version=8&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
Leviticus 15:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=17&version=8&context=verse)
And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
Leviticus 15:16-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=8&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&version=8&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
Leviticus 15:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=18&version=8&context=verse)
The woman also with whom a man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

[JesusPhreak27]

Leviticus 15:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=16&version=8&context=verse)
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall bathe all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
Leviticus 15:15-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=15&end_verse=17&version=8&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&version=8&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
Leviticus 15:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=17&version=8&context=verse)
And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
Leviticus 15:16-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=16&end_verse=18&version=8&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&version=8&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
Leviticus 15:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=15&verse=18&version=8&context=verse)
The woman also with whom a man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.




So we should have children even if we cant take care of them?

Seriously?

[Joe King]

So we should have children even if we cant take care of them?

Seriously?


Do you trust God in that he will take care of you and your family because he knows how many gifts he will give you?

[RebeccaG]

Natural family planning doesn't need your cycle to be "on the dot" every month. It is not the "rhythm method" that many people think it is.

What NFP and FAM (fertility awareness method) do is have you observe various fertility signs and if you are trying to avoid pregnancy, there are certain times when you must abstain from intercourse (NFP) or use a barrier method (FAM).

I highly recommend the book "Taking Charge of your Fertility" by Toni Weschler. Even if you don't want to use FAM/NFP as a method of birth control, this book contains FABULOUS information about the woman's body. I wish I had read it YEARS ago. A couple of years ago this author released a book for teens which I have not read, but if it's anything like the book for adults, it would be fabulous.

[Revinius]

So we should have children even if we cant take care of them?

Seriously?

I am with Joe, in the sense that God is in control, if He desires such a blessings as children for us then i am confident in Him. Anything but placing my faith in his sovereignty over ALL is selling Him short in His divine providence. Also, if kids are a blessing, why don't you want them? To quote Mark Driscoll: "are you being selfish and shirking the yoke responsibility?"

[Kaninchen]

I think it would probably be wise to use prayer in this type of situation, in order to make the best decision possible about whether you should be having children or not. Having children that you cannot feed or care for, or in a situation such as an abusive household or where one potential parent has a health or addiction problem just does not seem wise to me at all. And if a couple doesn't feel they could do their best by the child at this time, it's best to try birth control. The fact remains that no birth control save abstinence is perfectly effective, and I honestly don't believe taking a pill can circumvent the will of God - if God means for you to get pregnant than you'll do so. If it can happen to Mary, it can happen to anybody. I don't feel it's a bad decision as long as it's a careful decision.

[Rufus_1611]

Yes, but what if the family does not have means to support a child/additional children?Shouldn't they use some method to delay having more children until they feel they can 'afford' it, or stop having children altogether? No.

Also, I believe all children should be wanted. I don't feel it would be fair on the couple or the child for the parents to have children out of a sense of obligation, especially if they feel they are not ready yet, or have a large enough family. Happy is the man whose quiver is full.

[Rufus_1611]

Kaninchen, that is a good point.

One thing that has to be taken into account is the context in which those verses were written in. In the Eastern culture the more children you had or have, the better. They would work on the farm and be a financial asset to the family.

However, in modern Western Culture it is not that way. Unfortunately, children usually do not contribute to the family's bottom line like they used to. It is usually the opposite now. That is one reason why we see such a decline in birth rates in Western Culture versus Eastern culture.

I think this is a personal decision each family must prayerfully make. But, I don't think we are all commanded to just "be fruitful and multiply." Those passages cited above were given to Adam and Noah to populate an unpopulated earth. Well, the earth is quite populated now ;) So the command was be fruitful and multiply until the earth gets to 6 billion?

[Kaninchen]

Happy is the man whose quiver is full.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. Someone who is in a desperate situation and unable to feed or care for their children is not in a happy situation, and nor are the children themselves. As I mentioned in my introduction post, I am going in to the field of social work. Unfortunately, many of the people who I have met or read about through my interships, course work and field work do not have the resources to care for their current family, let alone the ability to care for additional children. It is not only foolish but irresponsible to have more children than you can take care of. The state offers programs like WIC and some assistance with food and shelter for those who are really in dire straits, but these are meant as temporary measures, not permanent lifestyles, and usually have cut off times. Creating additional children in order to burden taxpayers and abuse these systems is a very poor idea indeed. They are meant to help those who struggle get on their feet and aren't safety nets to sustain families who continue having child after child they cannot afford.

I don't believe the concept of a "full quiver" is a set number. By that, I don't think it means everyone is supposed to have X amount of children, or as many as they can possibly produce, in the manner of rabbits. I think the definition of a full quiver varies from family to family. For some, it may only mean one. For others, two or three. Some are called to have four, five or six children and once in a while we hear of massive families of a dozen children or more. That doesn't mean everyone is supposed to have a dozen children. If you're given an eight ounce glass, a full glass is eight ounces. In terms of children, I think people are given different sized "glasses". Once in a while couples are blessed with the Big Gulp of families, but for most people, a smaller amount is the correct number.

I guess if a person feels they should keep having children, but cannot care for them, they ought to pray long and hard, not just produce more offspring endlessly and mindlessly. It's a serious decision, you're talking about life here. If God means the life to be created at that moment in time, it will be, and nothing can stop it. But I think it needs to be carefully considered first.

[Rufus_1611]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. Someone who is in a desperate situation and unable to feed or care for their children is not in a happy situation, and nor are the children themselves. As I mentioned in my introduction post, I am going in to the field of social work. Unfortunately, many of the people who I have met or read about through my interships, course work and field work do not have the resources to care for their current family, let alone the ability to care for additional children. It is not only foolish but irresponsible to have more children than you can take care of. The state offers programs like WIC and some assistance with food and shelter for those who are really in dire straits, but these are meant as temporary measures, not permanent lifestyles, and usually have cut off times. Creating additional children in order to burden taxpayers and abuse these systems is a very poor idea indeed. They are meant to help those who struggle get on their feet and aren't safety nets to sustain families who continue having child after child they cannot afford. If you are arguing that socialism is wicked, I agree.

I don't believe the concept of a "full quiver" is a set number. By that, I don't think it means everyone is supposed to have X amount of children, or as many as they can possibly produce, in the manner of rabbits. I think the definition of a full quiver varies from family to family. For some, it may only mean one. For others, two or three. Some are called to have four, five or six children and once in a while we hear of massive families of a dozen children or more. That doesn't mean everyone is supposed to have a dozen children. If you're given an eight ounce glass, a full glass is eight ounces. In terms of children, I think people are given different sized "glasses". Once in a while couples are blessed with the Big Gulp of families, but for most people, a smaller amount is the correct number.

I guess if a person feels they should keep having children, but cannot care for them, they ought to pray long and hard, not just produce more offspring endlessly and mindlessly. It's a serious decision, you're talking about life here. If God means the life to be created at that moment in time, it will be, and nothing can stop it. But I think it needs to be carefully considered first. Amen. God will decide such things. However, if one engages in abortifacients or other forms of birth control, then they are making the decisions that formerly would've been reserved for God.

[Vhayes]

So, using the same logic, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord - therefore, even though we have drugs to cure as well as prevent certain diseases, we should not use them because God determines life and death and we should depend solely on God to make us well or take our life. Correct?

[Rufus_1611]

So, using the same logic, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord - therefore, even though we have drugs to cure as well as prevent certain diseases, we should not use them because God determines life and death and we should depend solely on God to make us well or take our life. Correct? I don't see how this is the same line of reasoning. Are you equating having children to a preventable disease?

[Revinius]

So, using the same logic, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord - therefore, even though we have drugs to cure as well as prevent certain diseases, we should not use them because God determines life and death and we should depend solely on God to make us well or take our life. Correct?

I think there is a difference between using medicines God gave us and taking 'two becoming one' out of its intended context. We all know what eventually happens when we take God's gifts out of their context.... :rolleyes:

[Rufus_1611]

...

I don't believe the concept of a "full quiver" is a set number. By that, I don't think it means everyone is supposed to have X amount of children, or as many as they can possibly produce, in the manner of rabbits. I think the definition of a full quiver varies from family to family. For some, it may only mean one. For others, two or three. Some are called to have four, five or six children and once in a while we hear of massive families of a dozen children or more. That doesn't mean everyone is supposed to have a dozen children. If you're given an eight ounce glass, a full glass is eight ounces. In terms of children, I think people are given different sized "glasses". Once in a while couples are blessed with the Big Gulp of families, but for most people, a smaller amount is the correct number.

... While I would agree that "full quiver" is not a set number, I would pose the following question. If you had an enemy at the gate, how many arrows would you desire to have to defend against them?

"Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate." - Psalm 127:5

[Vhayes]

What I am saying is this: You have both said God is in control in the conception of children. You believe we should do nothing to "hinder" God's wishes/desires because then, we are taking the decision out of God's hands.

If you firmly believe that, isn't choosing to take medicines the exact same thing? Aren't you in effect telling God you want to hang out on planet earth a bit longer than maybe he had planned?

And sorry but I'm not following the "gifts out of context" comment.

[Vhayes]

I don't see how this is the same line of reasoning. Are you equating having children to a preventable disease?
Not at all - I'm equating faith to faith.

If you believe you should allow God to determine the number of children you should have even when the means to limit that number is available, then you MUST also say you should allow God to heal you if you become ill rather than depend on any outside means.

Faith is faith - if it's good enough to apply in one situation, then it should be good enough to apply in ALL situations.

[Rufus_1611]

Not at all - I'm equating faith to faith.

If you believe you should allow God to determine the number of children you should have even when the means to limit that number is available, then you MUST also say you should allow God to heal you if you become ill rather than depend on any outside means.

These are separate matters. God provides instruction for healing in His Word. I would no sooner tell people to ignore His instruction for this, then I would His instructions to be fruitful and multiply.

[Vhayes]

These are separate matters. God provides instruction for healing in His Word. I would no sooner tell people to ignore His instruction for this, then I would His instructions to be fruitful and multiply.
Ah - chemotherapy is mentioned in the bible? Surgery is mentioned in the bible?

You're making my case for me. The healing discussed in the bible was at the hands of God and NOT at the hands of "medicine".

Back to the same question - is your faith strong enough to let God heal you or is it only strong enough for the children issue?

[Tanya~]

Since the OP has had her question answered, I'm closing this thread. If you would like to continue the new discussion, please feel free to start another thread in the appropriate forum. Thanks!