i know this is a VERY old question...

[benedict]

...but why don't the rules of sin apply to god and his wrath?

is killing innocent children not pretty inexcusable, baring in mind they are, well...innocent?


:confused




would this mean that hypothetically, if all my people were enslaved i could go around killing the first-born sons of my captors and it wouldn't be sinful?

if part of my plan was to harden the heart of my captor so that i could basically justify doing arguably the most brutal piece of genocide so that i could "manifest [my] great power and cause it to be declared among the nations" (Ex. 9:14, 16) ?!?!?!


god is all powerful - surely he could have done this without slaughtering innocent children...?

[Sold Out]

OOOHHHHH....here's a good one for you.

How do you know that the deaths of those innocent children are what allowed them to enter heaven? Because they WERE innocent, they went straight to heaven. If they had grown up to be selfish God-ignoring adults, they would probably had never gotten saved.

[apothanein kerdos]

Here (http://www.epsociety.org/library/articles.asp?pid=45&mode=detail) is a very good article dealing with that very question. In it he provides an adequate answer as to why God would do/allow such things.

Overall, however, your question assumes too much. It's really a loaded question (e.g. "Why did you stop beating your wife?"). For one, you assume that these infants are innocent in the eyes of God.

Two, you assume that God wouldn't possibly use certain methods in order to get His point across on how He feels about sin.

Third, you assume that these young children didn't automatically end up in Heaven with God, free from a life of being orphaned.

Fourth, you assume that it is genocide when, in all reality, God gives no partiality to any race and didn't kill these people because of their race.

Fifth, you assume that God is bound to morality in the same way we are - there are certain attributes He holds that are beyond our own attributes, with our attributes requiring we be subject to certain moral codes while He is not. For instance, we're not allowed to boast in ourselves because of our finiteness. However, since God is infinite He is allowed to boast in Himself. There are certain categories that morals fit into - just because something is absolute doesn't mean it applies to everyone if one does not mean (or supersedes) those qualification (e.g. Ethics calls on us not to beat our kids, but I have no kids, therefore I don't have to follow this code because it doesn't apply to me; likewise, ethics calls on us not to harm anyone who is innocent because we lack infallible judgment, God, however, has infallible judgment and may not be subject to this ethical code).

Sixth, you assume that He had never given these people a chance to turn around. He had given them a chance, but they never took it, thus He exacted His judgment upon them.

Seventh, you assume that the Bible is literal in this aspect. Yet, as we continue to read Scripture we see in parts where some of these races and cultures come up again and again throughout Scripture, even though Israel had supposedly wiped them off the map. This makes no sense until you take into account that the first part of the Bible is written in Ancient Near East hyperbole at points (something the article explains).

There are other assumptions, but I hope this helps to show that you might be assuming too much in asking the question. :)

[dljc]

Benedict,

Look at how long you've been a member of this message board. You are still looking for ways not to believe in God. You are doing what I tried to point out to you in your other thread, you are rationalizing this from your own perspective. Do you really think you are more compassionate than God? With comments like that it shows what's in your heart.

[Buck shot]

...but why don't the rules of sin apply to god and his wrath?

is killing innocent children not pretty inexcusable, baring in mind they are, well...innocent?


:confused




would this mean that hypothetically, if all my people were enslaved i could go around killing the first-born sons of my captors and it wouldn't be sinful?

if part of my plan was to harden the heart of my captor so that i could basically justify doing arguably the most brutal piece of genocide so that i could "manifest [my] great power and cause it to be declared among the nations" (Ex. 9:14, 16) ?!?!?!


god is all powerful - surely he could have done this without slaughtering innocent children...?
People feel that they are all powerful, yet we kill innocent children daily and call it choice. I don't want to derail, i just could not help adding that...

God's ways are not our ways. I am sure that it broke Moses heart to see the guy that he grew up with lose his first born son.

Had the Egyptians been not worshipping the false gods, the true God would not have did this.

Do you think that Pharoah was the only one that did not want to let the slaves go? You know that God hardened his heart but what about everyone else? God's people were slaves. You want to point a finger at God for killing the first born but seem to forget that the slaves did not have labor unions. They had NO rights. What had the Egyptians done to God's children years prior to this? Do you remember, they were killing all the sons, not just the first born(ordered to cast them into the river EX. 1).

[apothanein kerdos]

Benedict,

In all fairness, were you just baiting us? I ask because you completely ignored and moved past my post and instead jumped ahead with an inflammatory (and illogical [slippery slope and equivocation]) type example.

[benedict]

Benedict,

In all fairness, were you just baiting us? I ask because you completely ignored and moved past my post and instead jumped ahead with an inflammatory (and illogical [slippery slope and equivocation]) type example.i'm actually working my way through that link you posted, it's quite a long article.

your post is the best one on the thread and there for requires some thought.

[apothanein kerdos]

i'm actually working my way through that link you posted, it's quite a long article.

your post is the best one on the thread and there for requires some thought.

Yeah, I forgot to warn you about the length. It was published in Philosophia Christi, which is a peer-reviewed journal of philosophy. So it's not exactly "light reading."

When you're done, let me know and I'd love to discuss this issue with you.

[Mograce2U]

...but why don't the rules of sin apply to god and his wrath?

is killing innocent children not pretty inexcusable, baring in mind they are, well...innocent?

:confused

would this mean that hypothetically, if all my people were enslaved i could go around killing the first-born sons of my captors and it wouldn't be sinful?

if part of my plan was to harden the heart of my captor so that i could basically justify doing arguably the most brutal piece of genocide so that i could "manifest [my] great power and cause it to be declared among the nations" (Ex. 9:14, 16) ?!?!?!

god is all powerful - surely he could have done this without slaughtering innocent children...?In the human court of our limited earthly wisdom and knowledge we judge God by a standard we do not even hold ourselves to. I am thinking of abortion which we have "legalized". That is the initial problem you have to come to terms with. What is the standard by which you will judge the One who knows everything and who created you? While you bask in the universe He created according to His goodness which man has since corrupted because of his own ideas; you now say God cannot fairly judge us by taking away the life He gives? You must be assuming that this life is all there is.

(Isa 57:1-2 KJV) The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. {2} He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.

Truth is that our lives are beholding to God's goodness - not man's ideas, which are tainted by sin, of what that may be. Therefore He must judge us and not the other way around. There was a time when He judged the whole world with a flood because it had given itself over to violence. And if the parents of those children who were taken early had considered the matter, would they not have taken care that such a judgment not come upon their own children because of the evil they had done?

And do not forget that Pharoah was warned - many times, he just didn't think he had to listen. So whose fault was it that his firstborn son died? The lessons that are hardest to learn are those we don't pay heed to. Which is why every man must face death in this life. The good news is that that is not the end of the story.

[apothanein kerdos]

Just curious if you've had time to read the article and think it through. I know you've probably been busy, but this is an important subject to deal with in my opinion.

[seekhisface]

...but why don't the rules of sin apply to god and his wrath?

is killing innocent children not pretty inexcusable, baring in mind they are, well...innocent?


:confused






would this mean that hypothetically, if all my people were enslaved i could go around killing the first-born sons of my captors and it wouldn't be sinful?

if part of my plan was to harden the heart of my captor so that i could basically justify doing arguably the most brutal piece of genocide so that i could "manifest [my] great power and cause it to be declared among the nations" (Ex. 9:14, 16) ?!?!?!


god is all powerful - surely he could have done this without slaughtering innocent children...?


Perhaps you forget that men are lucky to still be alive on the earth? It was Noah's rightousness that prevented God from destroying all men along with all flesh from the earth. Do you know why? Maybe you should figure it out before you go around criticizeing your creator.