What would you do in my shoes?

[Helen]

I have been reading on here for some time and recently registered but have felt a bit nervous about posting - not really used to forums so I suppose that's why.

I have a big problem that I can't tell anyone about but it's becoming so hard to cope with that I need to 'talk' to someone about it. I figure that if I do it anonymously here I might feel better for getting it off my chest. This might be a bit long but please bear with me.

I married my husband nearly 30 years ago and had 3 lovely children. He is a Pastor of a church and I have worked solidly to support him in all he does. When we had been married a year he went on a missions trip and became very 'friendly' with another member of the team - that was evident from the photos of her sitting on his shoulders in the swimming pool and others, plus the leader of the group commented on how 'friendly' they were. There was a reunion and I saw the way he looked at her, it reminded me of how he looked at me on our wedding day.

Some time after that he was late coming home from the youth club we had started. I couldn't go because I had not long had my first baby. When he came home he looked a bit strange and finally told me that he had given one of the girls from the youth club a lift home and she had come on to him. He admitted to 'feeling all she had.' He said he felt guilty so didn't go any further although he could have done because she was 'up for it.' He began to cry and I ended up comforting him! I was devastated though.

A couple of years after that I had my second child. While I was in hospital one of our neighbours was a regular visitor to the house, and she came with my husband to see me in hospital one day. Both of them looked very guilty and the atmosphere was very tense. I got the feeling that they had been up to something but I have never asked him, mainly because I don't think he would admit to it anyway.

A few years after that we moved to a new church and I became really good friends with one of the ladies there. We did lots of things together and became very close. Our families even went on holiday together several times. When we were all together I began to feel uncomfortable with how my husband and this woman were together - I began to feel like a spare part as they giggled together and tickled each other etc. Sometime later she told me that my husband had tried to kiss her and she had told her husband. The 3 of them got together and decided not to say anything to me because I would be hurt about it but for some reason she went against the agreement and told me. He had been going round to hers for coffee when her husband was at work, they became too close and one thing led to another. When it got to the point of him kissing her, she realised they had gone too far and that was why she told me, she said. Her husband wasn't a christian and told her she was no longer to come to the church - I was glad about that although I was sad to lose her friendship.

A few months after that, another friend of mine in the church complained that my husband kept making comments about her body and tickling her as she went past him. My husband's boss was called in and although my husband denied it, I knew it was true because I had seen him on several occasions. The boss accepted that it was a 'woman who was trying to stir up trouble' - but I didn't believe that at all. I lost another close friend.

We moved to another church and we were no sooner here than one of the women began flirting with my husband - and he flirted back. It was so embarrassing and people began to notice and make comments. They constantly sent texts to each other, so much so that one of her friends told one of the church leaders that she was concerned about their relationship. He spoke to my husband and he agreed to stop texting this woman. He didn't though because I found that he was doing it secretly. He was meeting her and spending time with her in the church under the guise of discussing church business. She became a leader in the church and would turn up before church meetings much earlier than others to be with him alone. Personally, I believe she has a spirit of seduction and my husband is falling for it.

I took a lot of this but when my children (now grown-up) began to question their relationship I decided I had to tell him how his flirting was affecting our relationship and upsetting his children. He admitted that he found her attractive but nothing had happened between them. He said that he got the feeling that she would run a mile if he tried anything. She even said to me, out of the blue, one day, "I could never be with a married man."

This woman has been found out in loads of lies but nothing I say makes him stop his flirting. He says they no longer meet in the church on their own but they text and msn each other quite regularly (my husband doesn't know that I know that but I secretly check his phone and laptop, I'm not proud of that). He even asked her to give him five minutes of her time this week because he had to meet with a woman member of our church to give her some money from the care fund and he didn't want to be with her alone. He had many other alternatives, we have 2 male leaders who would have been available, I could have met with her with him but he asked her, obviously as an excuse to be with her. I suspect they spent a lot longer than 5 minutes together.

I am so upset about all of this and I just don't know what to do. I feel like giving up but when I made my vows I made them before God. There is no-one I can talk to about this and I have to pretend that all is ok, especially in church in front of people. After all, I am the Pastor's wife and should be smiling all the time! I have begged him not to see this woman and for a time he sticks to that but then it all starts up again. I honestly don't believe that anything physical has happened between them but this emotional affair between them is as bad, in fact, probably worse in some ways. I feel like I'm living a lie and I hate myself for that but I have lost all trust in him and when trust in a marriage goes, there's not much left. When others are about this woman smiles and chats to me but when people are not about she just ignores me, even when I speak to her.

Thank you for 'listening' - I feel better for finally putting some of what's in my heart out in the open, even though it's anonymously on a forum like this. I'm sorry this has been so long. Please pray for me and my family.

[paidforinfull]

Dear Helen: I am sorry if what I am about to say here sounds very harsh, but I feel I have to say it.

First of all - your husband should not be pastoring a church. At all. His flirting must be pretty obvious to other people in the congregation as well (and from what you've described here I would imagine that he doesn't stop at flirting). I would suggest you speak to somebody in the leadership of your congregation about this matter. Bring it out into the open.

Once his actions have been exposed he will have to make a decision: repent or leave the ministry alltogether. God is not mocked. If you feel it is best to speak to him first, that's ok, but I have a suspicion that he will only try to manipulate you to keep you quiet.

As far as your marriage goes - once all this is out in the open (and he knows that you and other people know what he has been up to) you might want to consider going for counselling - together. If he refuses then you could still go by yourself.

You are a child of God, and you have been suffering in silence for a long time. You need healing. Your relationship with your husband needs to be healed as well. It is not going to happen if you just keep quiet and look the other way.

Pray about this matter and seek wise council within the leadership of your church.

May God give you wisdom and strengh to do His will in this matter.

God bless.

[threebigrocks]

Helen, welcome to the board!

I'm sorry for the troubles you are going through, it must be very difficult. We do have a counseling forum which would suit your thread much better. I will move it there for continued discussion.

[Helen]

Thank you 'paidforinfull' for your honest advice. I know you are probably right but I'm not sure I have the strength to face this head on and expose him. I've been loyal to him for so long that I know I would feel dreadfully guilty for saying anything. I'm also a bit afraid to say anything because he has a horrible temper and he would be furious if I spoke to anyone about it. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would feel a lot better for writing about my experience but instead I just feel guilty. I appreciate you taking the time to read my very long post and for replying. I'm not quite sure what I expected but I got the impression that this was quite a caring community but out of the many viewings this has had only 2 of you have bothered to reply. Sorry, I guess I'm just feeling very low at the moment and thought I would feel better by doing this, instead I just feel that no-one really understands or cares. I know God does and that's the main thing. I will just keep trusting Him.

Thank you too, 'threebigrocks'. I am sorry I posted this in the wrong place. I thought that as it related to family it was in the right place but I can see that it probably fits better here.

[Metalwolf]

Hi Helen,

I have read through your post and the subsequent ones, and I have prayed for you. I have never been married so I am not able to fully understand the depths of what you are going through, but maybe I can say a few things.

It is not your fault. What your husband is doing is considered adultery. I don't know how far he went with any of these women, but it falls under "if you have looked upon a woman with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart" category. And from what you have mentioned, he has done quite a bit of that.

It is up to you what you should do, but I would advise doing something. This will keep on eating you up, and that is an awful feeling.

I wish I could give you better advise, but like I have said, I have never been married and so I don't totally know what to say, and I don't want to inadvertantly give you bad advise.

[kayte]

Hi Helen, welcome to the board. I'm sorry for all the pain you've absorbed all these years. I wanted to let you know that I'm praying for you and your family.

I keep wondering what would happen if you had a talk with the woman that's hanging around now, and told her that she will cease and desist immediately. If you told her that you will no longer put up with her or your husbands behavior, how do you think it would go?

As far as checking his phone and computer messages, you don't have anything to be ashamed of. You have been a guardian of your marriage. That's not wrong. What's wrong is that you have been put in this position where trust has been fractured. :(

It concerns me that you say he has a horrible temper. As in physically violent?

[paidforinfull]

Thank you 'paidforinfull' for your honest advice. I know you are probably right but I'm not sure I have the strength to face this head on and expose him. I've been loyal to him for so long that I know I would feel dreadfully guilty for saying anything. I'm also a bit afraid to say anything because he has a horrible temper and he would be furious if I spoke to anyone about it. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would feel a lot better for writing about my experience but instead I just feel guilty. I appreciate you taking the time to read my very long post and for replying. I'm not quite sure what I expected but I got the impression that this was quite a caring community but out of the many viewings this has had only 2 of you have bothered to reply. Sorry, I guess I'm just feeling very low at the moment and thought I would feel better by doing this, instead I just feel that no-one really understands or cares. I know God does and that's the main thing. I will just keep trusting Him..
Dear Helen - I really feel for you. I am a pastor's wife as well (actually I am an ordained minister myself), and I know that your situation is very very difficult.

Please do not feel guilty about posting here - you absolutely need to talk to someone, and it is propably easier for you to do so here.

(Yes, this is a very caring community, but I think your situation is a sensitive one, and maybe people want to think and pray before replying to your post.)

After reading what you have said here about your husband's bad temper, I can understand that you wouldn't want to talk to the leaders in your church about his weakness (although I am sure they know already). Strange that no-one has confronted him about his actions yet. :hmm:

I feel that as long as you keep quiet, things could go on in this way for many years. Can you face it?

It seems to me that the best we can do to help you right now is to pray for you, your husband, and your husband's congregation.

And Helen - please stop feeling guilty. You have nothing, but nothing to feel guilty about. You are God's child, and your husband should love you, not cause you all this heartache.

May God confort you, strengthen you and give you peace and wisdom.

God bless.:hug:

[moonglow]

Thank you 'paidforinfull' for your honest advice. I know you are probably right but I'm not sure I have the strength to face this head on and expose him. I've been loyal to him for so long that I know I would feel dreadfully guilty for saying anything. I'm also a bit afraid to say anything because he has a horrible temper and he would be furious if I spoke to anyone about it. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would feel a lot better for writing about my experience but instead I just feel guilty. I appreciate you taking the time to read my very long post and for replying. I'm not quite sure what I expected but I got the impression that this was quite a caring community but out of the many viewings this has had only 2 of you have bothered to reply. Sorry, I guess I'm just feeling very low at the moment and thought I would feel better by doing this, instead I just feel that no-one really understands or cares. I know God does and that's the main thing. I will just keep trusting Him.

Thank you too, 'threebigrocks'. I am sorry I posted this in the wrong place. I thought that as it related to family it was in the right place but I can see that it probably fits better here.

Its not that we don't care...its just that we are slow at times in seeing posts like this. I am sorry I didn't see it sooner.

My heart breaks for you...I am so sorry you are going through this.

I am not going to advise you what to do because at this point you aren't even comfortable in talking about it much. Sometimes we just need to talk! And that is all we need...

Sometimes being told what to do only adds to the pressure. So just talk for now if you want too.

And know we do care and are praying for you!

God bless

[Helen]

Thank you all so much for reading my long post and replying - I appreciate your advice and prayers.

I must apologise for my second post which was written out of frustration. I have re-read it and I realise that I aimed my frustration in the wrong direction! There is absolutely no reason on earth why I should expect complete strangers to offer me advice or prayers and so I would like to say a big thank you to all of those who have read but may not have replied, as well as all of you who have read and replied.

Kayte - I don't think my talking to this particular person would have any positive effect. I think it would make her very happy to know that her behaviour is upsetting me actually, but I will pray about it. You asked if my husband is violent - I am happy to say he has never been physically abusive to me. I came from a very abusive childhood and in the early days of our marriage I thought he was going to hit me but I told him in no uncertain terms that if he ever laid a hand on me we would be over without even a second thought! I think it took him a bit by surprise because I am the most non-confrontational person you could meet and I don't even normally argue back!

I am feeling a bit more positive actually so even though I wondered if I had done the right thing in sharing it here, I now feel that it was the right thing to do and I know that the Lord will direct me in the way I should go.

Thank you all very much. x

[paidforinfull]

Dear Helen - I am glad that you are feeling more positive and less guilty today. I prayed for you last night, and will continue to do so. Please keep us updated, and post a note as soon as you need to talk to someone. God bless.

[Sold Out]

Thank you 'paidforinfull' for your honest advice. I know you are probably right but I'm not sure I have the strength to face this head on and expose him. I've been loyal to him for so long that I know I would feel dreadfully guilty for saying anything. I'm also a bit afraid to say anything because he has a horrible temper and he would be furious if I spoke to anyone about it. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would feel a lot better for writing about my experience but instead I just feel guilty. I appreciate you taking the time to read my very long post and for replying. I'm not quite sure what I expected but I got the impression that this was quite a caring community but out of the many viewings this has had only 2 of you have bothered to reply. Sorry, I guess I'm just feeling very low at the moment and thought I would feel better by doing this, instead I just feel that no-one really understands or cares. I know God does and that's the main thing. I will just keep trusting Him.

Thank you too, 'threebigrocks'. I am sorry I posted this in the wrong place. I thought that as it related to family it was in the right place but I can see that it probably fits better here.

Oh Helen, I'm so sorry. You are a better woman than I am. So faithful to that man while going through all that. You will be rewarded for your faithfulness on judgment day.

It seems that he has the attitude that since he is a pastor, he can abuse his authority. God needs to deal with that man's heart. There is a deep-seeded reason he acts like this. Unless it's dealt with, he will continue. Don't blame yourself. This is HIS problem, not yours. You are a good woman, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I don't know if I have any advice to offer in how you should proceed. God won't let it go on indefinitely. I'm only afraid that when it all comes out, you will be hurt further. I'll pray for you Helen. You need God's strength and peace right now.

[kayte]

Thanks for responding, Helen. I could see confronting her go either way, so your personal knowledge of her is what you have to go by.

I'm very glad and relieved to hear that your husbands temper doesn't go into the physical realm. (And very sorry to hear about your abusive childhood. Have you ever talked with anyone about that?)

I'm glad you're feeling better and more confident about posting here. I hope you'll continue, if only so that you don't feel quite so alone and you can take comfort in knowing that there are others 'out there' praying with and for you about all of this. :hug:

[daughter]

Dear Helen, I'm so sorry to read of what you're going through. All I can offer is to pray for you, and all I can suggest is to trust in God, in all things.

There is obviously more wrong with your husband than just infidelity - you say he's got a terrible temper. It also seems that in his position, as a pastor, he should be scared witless to commit such crimes, even if just "in his heart." Whether he acted on them or not, he is still an adulterer - and others besides you have noticed.

I'm also very sorry that you lost friends over this, it seems you've been deprived of so much comfort over time.

In all of this you have been faithful to your husband, and tried to support his ministry... and that must have hurt a lot. Honestly, I do believe that you will be rewarded for your faithfulness in this, and I hope that your husband will be saved from the consequences of his sin. It seems to me that as well as mocking you with his infidelity, he's been mocking God, and this is something which puts him in a much worse position than you are in.

I know if you challenge him, he'll make angry denials and accusations. These things pan out that way. But perhaps he needs to know that you know... and remind him also that God knows. He's going to be judged to a far higher standard than an average member of his congregation. He's been persistently unfaithful not just to you, but to the God he claims to represent.

God will not be mocked, and your husband needs to repent - God does avenge the wounded, and He does repay the wicked.

I'm not saying that your husband isn't saved, or anything like that. He obviously felt shame at least once, early on in his history of infidelity... But he seems to have no shame now, just a hardened heart.

As well as praying for God to support you, guide you, comfort you in this heart breaking situation... I pray that God will break your husband's pride, break his heart, and bring him to real repentance. And for your children, who have been shamed by their father's behaviour. I pray that this hasn't affected their relationship with Christ. It must be hard to believe in a loving faithful father when your own father, allegedly a "man of God" treats your mother like this.

Please, sister, don't feel guilty for sharing your story here. You've had your friendships in the real world eroded away by your husband's infidelity - you need to talk to someone, and I hope that somebody here is of some help to you.

But mostly, know that we will be praying for you, and your children, and also your husband, who needs to repent, and return to his first love... both God, and the woman God gave him.

God bless sister.

[EaglesWINGS911]

I'm so sorry, I don't really know what to say but I will be praying for you!

[JesusReignsForever]

I would fast, and pray to God about the situation. He can fix the things we find unfixable. Trust God he is faithful. My heart goes out to you and your children to have to go through this but God is still on the throne and only he can help you.

Caresse

[MrsPierce]

I can totally identify with where you are. I was married for 16 years to a man that cheated on me nearly the entire time that I was married to him. I know how it feels to have the one that you love and adore promise to not do it again only to later break that promise and your heart.

For me the end came in December of 2002. I found out that my husband was involved in an affair that had been going on for about 3 months. When confronted (my husband had a bad temper as well), he admitted to the affair and said that it was my fault. I did not know what I was going to do. We have three kids together and I had been with him since graduating high school. I thought at first that we would work through things. He left my home the night that I confronted him, he said to clear his head. He went to the home of the other woman.

That night as I sat crying wondering about what was going to happen, my daughter who was 14 at the time came to me and told me that I needed to leave him. We started to talk about how things were and how my husband was. She told me how much she loved me and how I deserved so much more than I had. I thought about everything that we talked about and the next day I called my husband and told him that I wanted a divorce and that I wanted him to move out. He was furious.

It has been almost 6 years since that happened. I did divorce my husband and I am now remarried to a man that loves the Lord. I know that he is the one that God wants me to be with. While my life is not perfect, I am much happier now than I have ever been. I am glad to have someone who seeks Christ and wants to follow him. If I had stayed with my ex who knows how my life would be.

I know how difficult the situation that you are in is. I am sure that you wish, just as I did often, that you could just make your husband behave in a way that is appropriate. I used to think if I am just a good enough wife he will love me and never look at another.

I can't tell you and won't tell you that you should leave him. The only one who knows truly what you should do is the Lord. I will pray for you that whatever the Lord has planned for you will be revealed to you. It may be that your husband will repent. It may be that you will move on. I will pray that God will give you the strength and the courage to do what needs to be done no matter what that may be.

[Helen]

Thank you all so much for your support - I really do appreciate it more than you know. I have always thought that if a man (or woman) looked beyond their marriage partner that there must be something lacking in their marriage - but I'm not so sure I really believe that now because I have always tried to be a good wife to him, in every way. I know I am not perfect, no-one is, but I feel that the problem is more with him. I know he had a problem with low self-esteem as he was growing up so maybe by feeling that other women find him attractive it boosts his ego or something.

I have decided to continue to pray and not confront him just yet because I think it would just turn into a huge row and lots of denials. I don't think that would achieve anything at this point in time. I do value your prayers and thank you all so much.

Kayte - I have never really talked about my childhood to anyone (except the Lord!). I tend to be a very private person and don't 'open up' easily.

[moonglow]

Thank you all so much for your support - I really do appreciate it more than you know. I have always thought that if a man (or woman) looked beyond their marriage partner that there must be something lacking in their marriage - but I'm not so sure I really believe that now because I have always tried to be a good wife to him, in every way. I know I am not perfect, no-one is, but I feel that the problem is more with him. I know he had a problem with low self-esteem as he was growing up so maybe by feeling that other women find him attractive it boosts his ego or something.

I have decided to continue to pray and not confront him just yet because I think it would just turn into a huge row and lots of denials. I don't think that would achieve anything at this point in time. I do value your prayers and thank you all so much.

Kayte - I have never really talked about my childhood to anyone (except the Lord!). I tend to be a very private person and don't 'open up' easily.

My sister is like that...a private person and doesn't even tell us much. But once in awhile she gets to talking...lol.

You have us now to talk too. We don't know you...you have total privacy here and we can support you. Please don't feel pressured to do anything you aren't ready too and it needs to be in God's Will any way.

I would pray the Lord convicts him of his behavior...and help you through this storm! We can all pray! Prayer is a powerful thing when we are all praying for the same thing. :)

God bless

[catlover]

Helen,

You have gone thru alot and I do feel your pain. I'm sorry you were disappointed about the number of replies. I just read it this morning b/c I've never gotten onto the Counseling Requests forum (I normally am on the prayer and End Times threads). Anywho --- it is a very sensitive subject and I'm sure people just don't know what to say when it involves a person's marriage. But I will say this. You MUST stand up for yourself and tell your husband you simply cannot continue to live like this. You should go to a good counselor and tell your husband you want him to go to. If he doesn't, you still go. Don't go wobbly. Don't keep on enabling him. Don't you deserve to be treated better than that, not to mention your children. He obviously has a deep seated problem that needs to be dealt with.

And I agree that he should absolutely NOT be a pastor. If I knew my pastor acted like that, I couldn't get to the exit door fast enough.